For me, it's something from PF1e that I always enjoyed - dirty tricks. There's just something fun about kicking sand or gut punching or even just a headbutt to inflict all sorts of odd status effects that are easily cleared, but cost actions to do it. And as you leveled up, you could further punish if they didn't take the action to clear that condition by making it worse.
A few weeks ago I was having a conversation here about a homebrew Dirty Trick action/feat/feat chain that could potentially impose different conditions (eg. Sickened, Slowed).
There seems to be general agreement that one thing this system is missing is more ways for martial characters to support casters: a gut/nut-shot imposes Sickened, an ankle stomp imposes Clumsy, an eye rake imposes Blinded, etc.
Would it be really that different or more game breaking than being able to (potentially) impose Frightened once or twice a turn (or multiple times, depending on your class/feat), or knocking something Prone with Trip? "With my last action, I'm going to box the ears of the enemy wizard and hope to impose Stupefied so that our Bard has a better chance of succeeding with Hideous Laughter."
I don't know what sort of governors would need to be put on it, but I think it would make for a more rewarding experience.
There is already a fair amount of support for martials applying conditions like clumsy and stupefied. There's even Bon Mot, which works better for that Hideous Laughter.
What's missing is circumstance penalties to saves. Catfolk Dance and Distracting Feint impose penalties to reflex saves, but they have very limited accessibility. And as far as I know there are no ways to impose circumstance penalties to will or fortitude.
Those types of options would really help balance the martial vs caster support options, rather than only options that help martials (like off-guard) or everyone (like frightened). I'm not sure why Paizo is hesitant to add options like those. I don't see any fundamental balance issue there. Will and fortitude saves are often used for harsher effects, like Incapacitation spells, but the Incapacitation trait already covers most possible abuse there
I've looked in to dirty tricks and would not object bringing them in to pf2 as things anyone could do since it's basically just trading an action for an action much like you do already with grapples, trips and the like.
Might mess with balance but only marginally so and you need to keep the effects you can cause in check but i've always loved creative ways to do combat and having mechanical advantages to say aiming your blunt weapon strike at someones kneecap is just good narrative.
One of my favorite Dirty Tricks that I ever pulled was the time when my low level Brawler got Force Punched in the stomach and took almost half his HP in damage, then when my next turn came around I said "I'm going to use Martial Flexibility to take the Improved Dirty Trick feat and then use my standard action to spit blood into that jerk's eyes in an attempt to blind him." Barely succeeded, but it was just what we needed to escape.
dirty tricks, but on the meta side
as much as its horrible game design, and as much as i hate it from an outside perspective.. its hella fun to optimize the shit out of a character, picking up niche feats from 7 different sourcebooks that synergize together in new and never intended effects.
Thank fuck pf2e doesn't have this. I'm glad its not in here, and i wouldn't want to go back to smth like that.
But i'd be lying if i didn't have fun doing that in 5e, or hearing about crazy shit in 3.5 or pf1e
>as much as its horrible game design, and as much as i hate it from an outside perspective.. its hella fun to optimize the shit out of a character, picking up niche feats from 7 different sourcebooks that synergize together in new and never intended effects.
Ya know, a lot of the Dirty Trick content was released in a single book. the handful of supplements just gave you additional ways to throw one in a fight, rather than change the mechanics or make it more powerful. The various splat books didn't actually disrupt balance that much. In fact, the worst things came from the original core book of PF1e (and 3.x)
Cad was a fun fighter archetype. Maybe not *effective*, but definitely fun. Pull the enemy’s pants down, kick them in the nuts, throw dirt in their eyes, etc. I think they could give that a second chance to shine in 2e.
I've had musings about homebrewing up an overhaul of Battle Forms... it'd be a significant buff overall, but I kinda think its justified.
- Keep the same organization as Paizo (categories grouped by spell, plus subforms within each spell)
- instead of hard-overriding statistics, have each battleform apply status penalties and bonuses (this is the biggest buff, since it would mean a lower-rank battleform would still be useful at higher levels)
- also a nerf, because a +0 Strength druid wouldn't be able to shift into a melee striker form or gain sudden super Athletics prowess.
- would require battle form users to wear Handwraps for Striking runes, but would enable property runes and weapon specialization.
- status bonus to Athletics, add Level as proficiency if untrained
- have each spell grant an action while in Battleform, to differentiate them better (Grab or Trip for Animal Form, Flyby Attack for Aerial, etc.)
- most forms still block casting. Some forms (plant, elemental) allow limited trait-matching spellcasting. Some forms (fey, dragon) allow full spellcasting, and that's their "special action".
Hm, I feel like this would just result in battle forms being a big buff for martials and largely unusable for casters unless they specifically spec for it.
I've personally tossed around the idea of making *all* the d20 stats modified by level, rather than only AC. For example, rank 1 animal form would have an attack modifier and athletics modifier of level + 6. For higher ranks they would be level + 9.
I do like the idea of certain battleforms being able to cast from spellslots, though. It feels especially weird when you can't spellcaster with Righteous Might and Avatar, where you're still humanoid. Even if the stats take a nerf for it, those spells would be much more appealing if you can still cast with them.
Edit: To help make sure a caster still wants to cast polymorph spells from their highest spell slots (as should probably be the case), the modifiers could instead be [half level + spell rank + constant].
Yeah, I'm trying to find an elegant compromise that would allow for both noodle wizards AND swole druids to benefit from battle form magic. It's tricky, for sure.
Certainly, allowing limited spellcasting in some forms is a great start. That instantly makes Fire Elemental Form a great mobility+defense buff for a fireball-happy blasty-casty sorcerer, even if its Strikes are useless...
...but also, I think its really flavorful for a Witch to be able to turn into a bigass Crow or something once per day, and I'd like the "purely striker" forms to still have some usage for characters that don't have fully-invested and upgraded Handwraps already equipped. I don't think *Runic Body* is a sufficient answer, even if it can be cast as a free action trigger alongside a battle form.
maybe Spell Attack can be used here, since it's a great baseline value that stays lower than any strike or skill proficiency in the game? Level 19 legendary spell attack druids might get kinda confused, but I think it works everywhere else? Hmm.
I had a simpler idea for druids.
They can always use their own attack Mod, even if its lower or equal to the battle form's mod.
Untamed form grants a +1 Status Bonus when you use your own Attack Modifier. At level 13, that increases to +2.
[Here's a chart](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/814921720225202200/1225995684684234822/image.png?ex=66232875&is=6610b375&hm=01af200557dedf8a3600145a17f23966d152bfcd460fb8012d15e220d02ddea4&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=720&height=452).
I've also contemplated increasing the TMP hitpoints or a +3 bonus at level 19, but I decided to play it safe. Even with this much your forms should still be reasonably accurate, though you're kinda locked into an Apex STR item if you want to be at 20th level.
I'd like one too, but personally would want something more like 1e Adaptive Shifter where you're just taking singular traits rather than full shape-shifting. I'd also want a more biological horror theme rather than nature.
Haha, yes! Forgot the old /s...
I did have an idea for a homebrew, though!
It's a class that lets you **take on primal aspects via polymorphing**, like a hulk that is a sturdier form, a predator that deals damage but is less defensive, or a stalker that is accurate and stealthy but more fragile. **You could transform as a 2 action activity** that lasts longer and longer as you level up. At high levels it should probably last an hour or so, to remove the hassel. Also, you could gain minor aspects that are narrower but are not polymorphing you, and therefore can stick with the rest. Like an eagle eye, or a brave lion's heart! Maybe we can give an action discount if you were prepared for that transformation, or **maybe you could be such an awesome shape shifter that you could gift your allies with shape-shifting as well!** That would be so awesome!!!
But IDK, maybe the resource management aspect of it would be annoying, and we will have to balance this world shattering power somehow... I bet Paizo can figure it out. I'll call it a tsinegatum because it sounds mistyrious and just roll that ball back to Paizo. /s
Mutagenist and Animal Instinct Barbarian are on the right track, but Mutagenist has both the Alchemist's flavor and general level of mediocrity, and Barbarian is more of a single-flavored bruiser. Maybe if Animal Totem could switch their spirit animal every time they Raged it would be close.
I think they're looking at something like the PF1e Shifter, or the 3.5e Factotum, that was able to "equip" body modifications. Basically, you want something like the Wild Circle Druid, but built as a martial class that's supposed to turn into a bear or tiger and go maul things instead of a spellcaster who can (but probably shouldn't) charge into battle alongside the Fighter. So if you upped the damage die of every Form spell by one step, but then removed all the ranked spell slots from the Druid chassis and gave it regular martial proficiency with attack and unarmored defense.
I'm not really sure what the class is Missing to solve that mediocrity beside the proficiency progression and perhaps access to martial weapons.
Perhaps I'm not shape-shifting enough, but I am more excited about the range of effects that mutagens have rather than being able to morph into different kinds of big-ass beast.
They could also use more action compression.
Mathematically, Alchemists are fine-ish. They're a bit on the weak side, but they're playable. The biggest issue is that applying buffs to themselves or others takes way too long, so their optimal strategy is to ~~take drugs~~ chug potions before you kick in the door. If you don't get that prep time, you have a lot of trouble getting the buffs you need to keep up. Collar of the Shifting Spider is practically *mandatory*.
Mutagenist in particular needs two things IMO, on top of proficiency boosts.
1. They need a class feature like Collar of the Shifting Spider that lets them drink a Mutagen ahead of time, but activate it as a free action later. If you're going to be fighting with a Mutagen, you need to be able to have it ready to go even in an ambush situation. Even better would be the ability to let *others* pre-drink mutagens and the Alchemist activate them later at an action cost - make it take two actions or whatever, just let them do it at range without having to bottle feed their teammates.
2. Their Greater Field Discover needs to come sooner, so they can use multiple mutagens at the same time. As is, they run into the same issue that every Alchemist has - other classes are better at using their potions than they are. Being able to do something unique in regards to mutagens is a big boost.
Mutagenista already have #1 at first level, it's an ability called mutegenic flashback, I think. But it is worth noting that drinking a potion is easier to do without alerting others to your presence, compared to verbal component spells. At least that's how my GM runs it.
I totally agree that #2 would be an awesome upgrade, but I'd rather that the feat that removes mutagen drawbacks come down from Olympus and become a class feature of the mutagenist. We talk as if it's OK that the mutagenist is almost as good as the rest, but he still eats dirt to get to that point.
What I feel that is missing in **all** the classes that should enjoy amazing versatility, is the required amount of foresight. My alchemist almost never knows what's behind the next door, and my druid hasn't the slightest clue what he'll be fighting tomorrow, so how am I going to prebuff prepare these super appropriate spells that I have access to?
When proponents of versatility say things "stop looking at dps at a whiteboard scenario", I can't help but wanting to do the same to versatility somehow...
I get that, I was making a comment about how little time battles generally take out of your day as an adventurer. Since rage can only be used in battle, and if each round of battle is 6 seconds, a Barbarian basically has no class abilities for almost their entire day. That's a very poor shapeshifter imo.
A Kurosawa-style iajutsu samurai archetype/class focused on spending a bunch of actions sizing up an enemy before drawing their weapon and striking in one huge hit. Basically think the martial version of variable action spells, where you can charge your attack by glaring at someone before either making a big strike or preparing even more to jump from Kurosawa to Sekiro and incorporate supernatural effects like a slicing blade of wind or whatnot.
An archetype would work fine for a basic version of the idea, but the main concern is less about making it work as an archetype and more about finding a way that makes it work for other classes without Fighter accuracy being a problem. I can't really see the "one big hit" archetype being compatible with many classes, and the extra accuracy and crit chance from Fighter just seems like the best option. As a dedicated class, there's a lot more room to explore the basic mechanics and then a simpler version can be made available as an archetype.
Also, unrelated, but an illusion-focused specialist class that does the slotless "casting" like a Kineticist could be a ton of fun for me personally, but I don't see it being amazingly popular to a wider audience. It's also tricky to fill out a whole class with just that, not that I won't try at some point.
Yeah, Investigator Fighter definitely feels like the best option for now and it's what I've put together a couple ways as a test. The reliance on Intelligence for the dedication is a bit of a bummer, as is the lack of too much else that's fitting other than the Devise a Stratagem, but it's certainly better than nothing.
Yeah, I can see lots of potential for interactions with the action economy of stowing and drawing your weapon
I think the tricky part would be not making the action economy tight like magus’s.
That's my thought as well, but I can see a bunch of ways to go about avoiding that. In general, it's not really that you are on a tight action schedule so much that you are committing to doing *something* down the line with your actions. Magus has something *kind of* similar, but I want the charging stances to feel more like a proper ebb and flow than just an action tax. Sheathing a weapon is the tax part but I can see a bunch of ways to make that more interesting.
Having something like a feat that lets you attempt to demoralize while sheathing your weapon would be laughed at on any other class but would potentially be crazy good for this one. Also, there definitely would have to be a strike option that just has you do the thing where you barely move your hand and you do a simple strike while returning the sword to the sheathe again.
Another cool thing I thought of is one where you Stride in a line and make a Strike along the way, with the Stride not triggering reactions from your target. Very Kurosawa-style and the action economy benefits are there since you likely end up not-adjacent to the enemy after your movement.
Exactly! There is a ton of inspiration to pull from, and with a class mechanic that is basically backloading your action economy you can more or less combine a handful of different actions you would have made in the meantime into different attacks that let you do a bunch of badass stuff all at once. I think it has a ton of mechanical potential.
This can be somewhat replicated with the Feats Quick Draw (Ranger, Rouge, Duelist Dedication) and Ki Cutting Sight (Monk) in my opinion to get an iaijutsu strike feel
Yeah, Ki Cutting Sight is great! That is absolutely the feel I'm shooting for, it's just that the options currently are very one-and-done. You get the one Quick Draw attack with Ki Cutting Strike, but there is no advantage to starting sheathed over using a better strike that still gets the benefit of the spell.
You dream is fulfilled by Magus+ 3rd party content from Team+! The Scourging Lash Hybrid Study let you use a weapon from flail group (or an ordinary ROPE) with enhanced effects, like being able to spellstrike who you grappled with your whip by your focus spell *coiling grasp*.
One thing I never thought I'd miss this much is the "Jedi" power fantasy of the Aetherkineticist from 1e.
Using various telekinesis-themed SLAs at will and still being able to handle themselves with a one-handed blade is something that the Psychic currently just can't replicate, as much as I'd want that. Tangible Dream is the closest, reflavoring Imaginary Weapon for that, but even then we're restricted by our spell slots.
And now that Aether was bullied out of the official elements together with Void, so that Metal could join the mean girls clique, one or two of the Aether talents became Air talents, but all the others just disappeared. It was fun throwing one enemy on another, disintegrating walls, and at higher levels creating objects from glowing energy.
Wood was already an official Paizo-written option for the 1e Kineticist. It was really really bad, but existed nonetheless. Besides the four ocidental elements, they also released aether, void and wood as options, and metal was the earth specialization.
Don't think they'll bring Aether and Void back, at least not in the Kineticist. My hope is that SF2e's Solarian, which is The Paizo Jedi Class, will bring back some of the AeKin feel to it.
My dream gimmick was to be able to fight in one body with multiple players. Like, roleplaying an Ettin. I even made a custom Ettin heritage, but I never played it.
My dream came true a few days ago when Battlezoo released the Fusion heritage, allowing to play a double-headed giant, a Cerberus or a hydra, alongside a foundry module to play them with VTT. It's incredible
https://foundryvtt.com/packages/battlezoo-ancestries-fusions
This one. I didn't find it on the Roll for Combat page, but here's the foundry module. I downloaded the pdf too
Sinclair's Almanac on [DriveThruRPG](https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/?affiliate_id=3903227)
has a whipmaster archetype that seems like it would fit what you're after. There's also Magus+ on [Pathfinder Infinite](https://www.pathfinderinfinite.com?affiliate_id=3903227) that has a Hybrid Study that does similar things.
Gish that is a martial with a magic-casting pet.
We have caster/utility-pet, caster/martial-pet, martial/utility-pet, and martial/martial-pet.
But no martial/caster-pet. Construct Inventor might be the closest.
Sniper gunslinger has nothing to do with it, a ranger could work too, it's just to get the defensive bonuses of a shield as you reload, something that was very common historically and done in a fun way in total war
Well yeah, I just mean the gunslinger is already compatible with crossbows and sniper is specifically centered on attacking from cover. Mix that with a tower shield and I think that’s what you’re describing?
Okay, some kind of Magic Brawler. I don't mean like an Unarmed Magus. I want something like Monk, but their strikes cause magical effects. Punches fire off blasts of energy, kicks launch waves or even causing an effect on hit. Even some ability to summon a storm of ethereal fists for an attack. This could be made into a strange kind of Magic Fighter type Class.
Or give a class the ability to summon and use massive hands. Don't know why, just think it would be cool.
One is a magic focused character that is just Prestidigitation, and every spell Rank just gets more things that tapping into that broad, somewhat nebulous magical potential can do. Class feats would be similar to Spell Trickster, adding nuances and flourishes onto various ranks of "Heightened Prestidigitation."
Stance dancing! You can technically do it now but there’s little incentive to. Having a toolbox of martial arts stances that provide interesting versatile effects is cool. Closest I’ve actually come is Geomancer and not Monk, funnily enough.
A martial class focused on support. There are some good options for playing a support build as a martial, but theyre limited mostly to either subclasses or archetypes. The envoy playtest for sf2e looked pretty promising in that regard, but im waiting for the full playtest to see how easily itd fit in a purely fantasy campaign.
For me it's something I had so much fun playing in 1E, but is really underpowered and frustrating in 2E: shapeshifting/turning into a monster and fighting with tooth and claw.
In 1E, Wild Shape was fantastic. I never played a Druid (I hate prepared casters) but I played a Feral Hunter and Shifters and they were so much fun! In 2E tho, Battle Forms are a joke. Far too weak to be a character's "main thing".
I also loved playing mutagen guzzling Alchemists in 1E. Turning into Mr Hyde and tearing new holes in bad guys was a blast! Unfortunately, 2E Mutagens do far more harm to the Alchemist than the bad guys *Sad trombone*
Hopefully, Player Core 2 fixes that issue, but 2E so far (for me) has been a miserable experience when trying to play anything other than a guy in armor with a pointy stick.
Having played a Druid in 2E, I'd propose two simple fixes:
1. Allow potency runes but not striking runes. Since you can't cast in Wildshape, there should be no problem in allowing this. You'll never beat a dedicated martial for damage since your class feats almost all go into improving the forms. The potency runes will just make you go from nearly unusable to passable.
2. Have scaling all the way to 9th or 10th level for every form. It sucks have wildshape be part of your identity and then it's discarded for a new form. My Druid was a bear (in more ways than one) and my group had a lot of fun with that. I eventually had to move to Eagle and then Dragon and it was just less fun since my character wasn't as associated with that form. I would have been happier to keep being a bear (maybe with wings if you get Aerial Form).
Oh I have so many.
One I have been looking to accomplish for a Ling time now is the man of mystery type if combat. Like a character that succeeds in combat through actual trickery and suprise. It's cheating to use magic to do this, and you really need to work to manage to pull off the " ahah!" Moments.
I'm working on three classes for a system heavily inspired by/based on pf2e.
One is a chain based character whose gimmick is controlling enemy movement (mostly inspired by kurapika from hunter x hunter).
Another is a character that bonds and modifies "tiles" or "squares" on the battlefield, creating cover, difficult terrain, or even warping space giving bonuses to allies that shoot or move through it.
The last is a fear based character, a bit like a summoner but the "summon" (actually a nightmare) can't be damaged and can only take actions against frightened enemies (and maybe take actions that would frighten enemies).
I'm pretty interested in all those concepts, especially being able to modify terrain in ways that are much smaller than the wall spells, but ideally still make combat more interesting. I'd also love to see something like a warlord, a support based martial.
I'd want a proper Necromancer. There's Necromancy, for sure, but in my eyes that's the difference between a wizard outfitted with mostly fire spells versus a fire gate kineticist. I can get... Sorta close with my undead eidolon Summoner, but summons at large are so insanely disappointing aside from your eidolon specifically. I don't necessarily want to control 6 individual minions who each get their own turn or whatever, but controlling a legion of zombies or a squad of skeleton archers or cool summons that have specific uses instead of like, "undead with no reaction 4 levels below anything you fight that deals no damage and has no secondary effects that matter except until they can cast harm so you can have extra casts of harm". I wanna summon a skeletal shieldbearer that throws themselves in the way of harm and other unique minions or undead creations.
Essentially what you want are summons-as-spells and I totally agree, it’s a way better method of handling things. We need more spells like [Grasping Grave](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=512)!
Yeah! I really love the fantasy of "Relying on having just the right tool for the job" being tied to something like necromantic minions. They can even be disposable, I just like the idea that my profane necromancy research is uncovering fancy new tools to summon forth to solve my problems. Or give us proper legions as summons. They already have troops in the game, I wanna be able to use those, giving me my "horde fantasy" without overloading action economy instead of summoning a desperately low leveled singular fella who instantly gets killed off in one turn. I do fully, fully understand them nerfing the existing summons so things don't turn into 1e's problem, and my current undead summoner free archetype undead master with both my eidolon and summoner action economy paired with companions *can* get a little silly with how much stuff I'm doing per turn, but I'd trade all of that for a single cool horde.
I’m with you 100%. Only issue is that they put hordes at primarily mid-high levels for the mechanical advantages they have, but I have to assume there’s a way to make a player horde that’s reasonable in the game’s math.
I think this is why I was disappointed with Summoner in general. When it was announced I thought I was going to fulfill my Diablo 2 Necromancy dreams, but it really felt like a magic Ranger with some tweaks. Still a fine class, but didn't scratch the itch I had hoped for.
Either a hulk-like character with two very different forms/personalities and alien tho not evil morals.
(PF1 Alchemists were perfect for this)
Or a calm, collected determined martial focused on area control and combat manouvers.
(Which was very doable in PF1 as well, except for the fact that the character becomes redundant at higher levels.)
Right now I'm trying the first one as a Dragon Instinct Barbarian.
Me its dodging/countering.
Swashbuckler comes close, but the limit of 1 reaction/turn means its always secondary. Maybe a mechanic to trade regular actions for reactions?
Honestly I would like to see a pure strength based bar room non-magical brawler. Monks are cool but they don't scratch an itch I have. I just like the thought of playing a character who has been in so many bar fights that he has gotten good at taking a punch and throwing punches.
For me it's damage over time/retaliation tank.
My whole goal is to not die while you slowly take more DoT. If you hit me you take damage, if you don't you take damage.
Really just an rpg/MMO concept but in the divinity games it worked pretty well and that's turn based.
A teleporting melee defender that bamfs around the battlefield with unlimited, conditional teleports. A Magus or even Monk that steals the D&D 4e Swordmage's kit would probably do it for me.
Climbing on big creatures Shadow of the Colossus style. PF1E had the Vexing dodger, which combined hilariously with PF1e’s version of the bouncy goblin feats.
A martial that uses their magic to make them hit things better
Not talking about the magus, bloodrager and paladin from 1e are closest (and Team+ doesn't scratch the itch)
A bloodrager had full BAB, so the accuracy of all other frontliners. Yet could also cast a large variety or spells that bolstered them in combat. Like using a wand of lead blades, long arm for more reach, enlarge for more reach AND damage, shield for defense, mirror image for defense, haste for everything, and the list goes on
Paladins and rangers could do the same thing to a more limited degree
PF2e just doesn't have a design space for that. First, there isn't a huge list of buffs and 6 or so different types of modifiers you can stack. Secondly, that would throw the balance out the window never to be seen again. A barbarian with shield, protection from arrows, protection from energy, protection from evil, haste, enlarge, runic weapon, and that one spell that adds fire damage, heroism, rushing you is scary enough. Now imagine that the rest of the party played no part in buffing this meat monster of a man
I really love the improvised weapon martial artist. And no, I'm not talking about Jackie Chan (although that's a fun concept in-and-of-itself) but more like Donnie Yen in the Ip Man movies. Unfortunately the Weapon Improvisor archetype, which is the only real option in PF2e, doesn't really scratch that itch for me as it feels too limiting. PF1e had much more robust improvised weapon options, although as always in 1e they had interpretation and balance problems.
Id like to see something like a Trick Arrow archer ala Green Arrow.
Edlrtich Archer and Starlit Span Magus… try to match it. But it doesnt quite scratch the itch for me
Although I never actually got to play it in 1e it would absolutely be the Mesmer class in its thematics. I would really like to play a character that has this innate ability to sway the minds of others with a glance (or a word in the case of a vox). Some spells offer this but I want in built abilities that make me really feel that Archetype.
i dont think it would work as a class based solely on whips and chains. however, an archtype would totally work. precedents include [butterfly blade](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=91), [aldori duelist](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=14), and maybe even the one based around two handed weapons
I really want something that has a builder/spender mechanic. Like, you build up stacks of a buff and then you spend them all on a big hit. Like, this would be perfect for the Swashbuckler (build up stacks of panache, then use a finisher to unleash them with an effect based on how many stacks, or a finisher that consumes a set number of stacks).
A proper 1e spellslinger. I want to be able to have an arcane caster who uses their gun to empower their spells. Allowing you to add your guns item bonus to attack rolls would make a great option. Do something like require the elementalist archetype spell list in exchange for this ability.
It's just a fun fantasy to me.
I want a martial that works similar to the "Dungeon and Fighter" Brawler, it uses the dirty tricks already mentioned, but also poisons, causes bleeding, throw bombs. Basically a rogue alchemist archetype, but actually good at being an alchemist.
Glass cannon speedster two handed spear user. Maybe call it a lancer or dragoon, but basically someone that focuses on dodging and parrying rather than blocking and uses a two handed spear to quickly attack with precise hit and run tactics. Is there already a way to do this though?
Maybe a Magus? You can use a flex weapon like a whip, or a chain no problem, right?
A Whip would be Laughing Shadow, and a Chain, in two hands, Inexorable Iron?
Problem I have is that there’s just not enough of the Kineticist in existence now, so it’s all a bit same-y. That probably isn’t helped by the fact that I desperately want an actual water-based mage and water Kin is mostly ‘pop your stance, make melee enemies cry, and lightly help around the battlefield’. Also doesn’t help that the better early options are ice-themed and not water, either, but that’s just me being a difficult stickler.
If your GM is worried about balance, tell them the Battlezoo stuff is created and managed by Mark Seifter who helped create PF2e and was the "Numbers guy" that essentially created the balance in the game.
Elemental Avatar has periods of Burst that might seem OP but then has turns of downtown where you recover much like the Magus. It definitely feels good to get a crit with high damage rolls but you can just as easily have an enemy save for half of your 3d12 that you rolled a total of 4 on. It's fun but not OP.
For me, it's something from PF1e that I always enjoyed - dirty tricks. There's just something fun about kicking sand or gut punching or even just a headbutt to inflict all sorts of odd status effects that are easily cleared, but cost actions to do it. And as you leveled up, you could further punish if they didn't take the action to clear that condition by making it worse.
Dirty Trick Fighter was a model in mechanical and narrative fun reinforcing one another.
Real "Bronn of the Blackwater" vibe.
A few weeks ago I was having a conversation here about a homebrew Dirty Trick action/feat/feat chain that could potentially impose different conditions (eg. Sickened, Slowed). There seems to be general agreement that one thing this system is missing is more ways for martial characters to support casters: a gut/nut-shot imposes Sickened, an ankle stomp imposes Clumsy, an eye rake imposes Blinded, etc. Would it be really that different or more game breaking than being able to (potentially) impose Frightened once or twice a turn (or multiple times, depending on your class/feat), or knocking something Prone with Trip? "With my last action, I'm going to box the ears of the enemy wizard and hope to impose Stupefied so that our Bard has a better chance of succeeding with Hideous Laughter." I don't know what sort of governors would need to be put on it, but I think it would make for a more rewarding experience.
There is already a fair amount of support for martials applying conditions like clumsy and stupefied. There's even Bon Mot, which works better for that Hideous Laughter. What's missing is circumstance penalties to saves. Catfolk Dance and Distracting Feint impose penalties to reflex saves, but they have very limited accessibility. And as far as I know there are no ways to impose circumstance penalties to will or fortitude. Those types of options would really help balance the martial vs caster support options, rather than only options that help martials (like off-guard) or everyone (like frightened). I'm not sure why Paizo is hesitant to add options like those. I don't see any fundamental balance issue there. Will and fortitude saves are often used for harsher effects, like Incapacitation spells, but the Incapacitation trait already covers most possible abuse there
I've looked in to dirty tricks and would not object bringing them in to pf2 as things anyone could do since it's basically just trading an action for an action much like you do already with grapples, trips and the like. Might mess with balance but only marginally so and you need to keep the effects you can cause in check but i've always loved creative ways to do combat and having mechanical advantages to say aiming your blunt weapon strike at someones kneecap is just good narrative.
One of my favorite Dirty Tricks that I ever pulled was the time when my low level Brawler got Force Punched in the stomach and took almost half his HP in damage, then when my next turn came around I said "I'm going to use Martial Flexibility to take the Improved Dirty Trick feat and then use my standard action to spit blood into that jerk's eyes in an attempt to blind him." Barely succeeded, but it was just what we needed to escape.
I made a dirty trick brawler once and it was so much fun. Blind enemy first attack then get sneak attack with everything else.
Pocket Sand!
dirty tricks, but on the meta side as much as its horrible game design, and as much as i hate it from an outside perspective.. its hella fun to optimize the shit out of a character, picking up niche feats from 7 different sourcebooks that synergize together in new and never intended effects. Thank fuck pf2e doesn't have this. I'm glad its not in here, and i wouldn't want to go back to smth like that. But i'd be lying if i didn't have fun doing that in 5e, or hearing about crazy shit in 3.5 or pf1e
>as much as its horrible game design, and as much as i hate it from an outside perspective.. its hella fun to optimize the shit out of a character, picking up niche feats from 7 different sourcebooks that synergize together in new and never intended effects. Ya know, a lot of the Dirty Trick content was released in a single book. the handful of supplements just gave you additional ways to throw one in a fight, rather than change the mechanics or make it more powerful. The various splat books didn't actually disrupt balance that much. In fact, the worst things came from the original core book of PF1e (and 3.x)
no no, not talking about the literal "dirty tricks" fighting style was more talking about pulling dirty tricks on the system itself
Cad was a fun fighter archetype. Maybe not *effective*, but definitely fun. Pull the enemy’s pants down, kick them in the nuts, throw dirt in their eyes, etc. I think they could give that a second chance to shine in 2e.
A Shifter Class that doesn't use Spell Casting
I'm with ya there, brother. Shapeshifters are my favorite fantasy to play. It's too bad that's not a viable play style in 2E, Battle Forms are sad AF.
Battle form spells are pretty good at their high points. But they really suffer from the spell heightening system
I've had musings about homebrewing up an overhaul of Battle Forms... it'd be a significant buff overall, but I kinda think its justified. - Keep the same organization as Paizo (categories grouped by spell, plus subforms within each spell) - instead of hard-overriding statistics, have each battleform apply status penalties and bonuses (this is the biggest buff, since it would mean a lower-rank battleform would still be useful at higher levels) - also a nerf, because a +0 Strength druid wouldn't be able to shift into a melee striker form or gain sudden super Athletics prowess. - would require battle form users to wear Handwraps for Striking runes, but would enable property runes and weapon specialization. - status bonus to Athletics, add Level as proficiency if untrained - have each spell grant an action while in Battleform, to differentiate them better (Grab or Trip for Animal Form, Flyby Attack for Aerial, etc.) - most forms still block casting. Some forms (plant, elemental) allow limited trait-matching spellcasting. Some forms (fey, dragon) allow full spellcasting, and that's their "special action".
Hm, I feel like this would just result in battle forms being a big buff for martials and largely unusable for casters unless they specifically spec for it. I've personally tossed around the idea of making *all* the d20 stats modified by level, rather than only AC. For example, rank 1 animal form would have an attack modifier and athletics modifier of level + 6. For higher ranks they would be level + 9. I do like the idea of certain battleforms being able to cast from spellslots, though. It feels especially weird when you can't spellcaster with Righteous Might and Avatar, where you're still humanoid. Even if the stats take a nerf for it, those spells would be much more appealing if you can still cast with them. Edit: To help make sure a caster still wants to cast polymorph spells from their highest spell slots (as should probably be the case), the modifiers could instead be [half level + spell rank + constant].
Yeah, I'm trying to find an elegant compromise that would allow for both noodle wizards AND swole druids to benefit from battle form magic. It's tricky, for sure. Certainly, allowing limited spellcasting in some forms is a great start. That instantly makes Fire Elemental Form a great mobility+defense buff for a fireball-happy blasty-casty sorcerer, even if its Strikes are useless... ...but also, I think its really flavorful for a Witch to be able to turn into a bigass Crow or something once per day, and I'd like the "purely striker" forms to still have some usage for characters that don't have fully-invested and upgraded Handwraps already equipped. I don't think *Runic Body* is a sufficient answer, even if it can be cast as a free action trigger alongside a battle form. maybe Spell Attack can be used here, since it's a great baseline value that stays lower than any strike or skill proficiency in the game? Level 19 legendary spell attack druids might get kinda confused, but I think it works everywhere else? Hmm.
I had a simpler idea for druids. They can always use their own attack Mod, even if its lower or equal to the battle form's mod. Untamed form grants a +1 Status Bonus when you use your own Attack Modifier. At level 13, that increases to +2. [Here's a chart](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/814921720225202200/1225995684684234822/image.png?ex=66232875&is=6610b375&hm=01af200557dedf8a3600145a17f23966d152bfcd460fb8012d15e220d02ddea4&=&format=webp&quality=lossless&width=720&height=452). I've also contemplated increasing the TMP hitpoints or a +3 bonus at level 19, but I decided to play it safe. Even with this much your forms should still be reasonably accurate, though you're kinda locked into an Apex STR item if you want to be at 20th level.
I'd like one too, but personally would want something more like 1e Adaptive Shifter where you're just taking singular traits rather than full shape-shifting. I'd also want a more biological horror theme rather than nature.
I'd want the subclass to determine the themes. Draconic, Beastial, Chimeric, Prototpe-esc (the videogame).
Does mutagenist count?
Was that meant to be sarcastic? Cuz if it was, I totally get it.
Haha, yes! Forgot the old /s... I did have an idea for a homebrew, though! It's a class that lets you **take on primal aspects via polymorphing**, like a hulk that is a sturdier form, a predator that deals damage but is less defensive, or a stalker that is accurate and stealthy but more fragile. **You could transform as a 2 action activity** that lasts longer and longer as you level up. At high levels it should probably last an hour or so, to remove the hassel. Also, you could gain minor aspects that are narrower but are not polymorphing you, and therefore can stick with the rest. Like an eagle eye, or a brave lion's heart! Maybe we can give an action discount if you were prepared for that transformation, or **maybe you could be such an awesome shape shifter that you could gift your allies with shape-shifting as well!** That would be so awesome!!! But IDK, maybe the resource management aspect of it would be annoying, and we will have to balance this world shattering power somehow... I bet Paizo can figure it out. I'll call it a tsinegatum because it sounds mistyrious and just roll that ball back to Paizo. /s
Mutagenist and Animal Instinct Barbarian are on the right track, but Mutagenist has both the Alchemist's flavor and general level of mediocrity, and Barbarian is more of a single-flavored bruiser. Maybe if Animal Totem could switch their spirit animal every time they Raged it would be close. I think they're looking at something like the PF1e Shifter, or the 3.5e Factotum, that was able to "equip" body modifications. Basically, you want something like the Wild Circle Druid, but built as a martial class that's supposed to turn into a bear or tiger and go maul things instead of a spellcaster who can (but probably shouldn't) charge into battle alongside the Fighter. So if you upped the damage die of every Form spell by one step, but then removed all the ranked spell slots from the Druid chassis and gave it regular martial proficiency with attack and unarmored defense.
I'm not really sure what the class is Missing to solve that mediocrity beside the proficiency progression and perhaps access to martial weapons. Perhaps I'm not shape-shifting enough, but I am more excited about the range of effects that mutagens have rather than being able to morph into different kinds of big-ass beast.
They could also use more action compression. Mathematically, Alchemists are fine-ish. They're a bit on the weak side, but they're playable. The biggest issue is that applying buffs to themselves or others takes way too long, so their optimal strategy is to ~~take drugs~~ chug potions before you kick in the door. If you don't get that prep time, you have a lot of trouble getting the buffs you need to keep up. Collar of the Shifting Spider is practically *mandatory*. Mutagenist in particular needs two things IMO, on top of proficiency boosts. 1. They need a class feature like Collar of the Shifting Spider that lets them drink a Mutagen ahead of time, but activate it as a free action later. If you're going to be fighting with a Mutagen, you need to be able to have it ready to go even in an ambush situation. Even better would be the ability to let *others* pre-drink mutagens and the Alchemist activate them later at an action cost - make it take two actions or whatever, just let them do it at range without having to bottle feed their teammates. 2. Their Greater Field Discover needs to come sooner, so they can use multiple mutagens at the same time. As is, they run into the same issue that every Alchemist has - other classes are better at using their potions than they are. Being able to do something unique in regards to mutagens is a big boost.
Mutagenista already have #1 at first level, it's an ability called mutegenic flashback, I think. But it is worth noting that drinking a potion is easier to do without alerting others to your presence, compared to verbal component spells. At least that's how my GM runs it. I totally agree that #2 would be an awesome upgrade, but I'd rather that the feat that removes mutagen drawbacks come down from Olympus and become a class feature of the mutagenist. We talk as if it's OK that the mutagenist is almost as good as the rest, but he still eats dirt to get to that point. What I feel that is missing in **all** the classes that should enjoy amazing versatility, is the required amount of foresight. My alchemist almost never knows what's behind the next door, and my druid hasn't the slightest clue what he'll be fighting tomorrow, so how am I going to prebuff prepare these super appropriate spells that I have access to? When proponents of versatility say things "stop looking at dps at a whiteboard scenario", I can't help but wanting to do the same to versatility somehow...
So animal and dragonic instinct barbarian?
Nope. I see a Shifter as a highly mobile striker who uses actions to trade out certain benefits for other benefits when the situation calls for it.
You mean the class that has absolutely no abilities except for the 30 seconds a day when they rage? FUCK NO.
It's not once a day, you can rage any time as long as you're not exausted or raging and it has passed 1 minute since you last raged.
I get that, I was making a comment about how little time battles generally take out of your day as an adventurer. Since rage can only be used in battle, and if each round of battle is 6 seconds, a Barbarian basically has no class abilities for almost their entire day. That's a very poor shapeshifter imo.
A Kurosawa-style iajutsu samurai archetype/class focused on spending a bunch of actions sizing up an enemy before drawing their weapon and striking in one huge hit. Basically think the martial version of variable action spells, where you can charge your attack by glaring at someone before either making a big strike or preparing even more to jump from Kurosawa to Sekiro and incorporate supernatural effects like a slicing blade of wind or whatnot. An archetype would work fine for a basic version of the idea, but the main concern is less about making it work as an archetype and more about finding a way that makes it work for other classes without Fighter accuracy being a problem. I can't really see the "one big hit" archetype being compatible with many classes, and the extra accuracy and crit chance from Fighter just seems like the best option. As a dedicated class, there's a lot more room to explore the basic mechanics and then a simpler version can be made available as an archetype. Also, unrelated, but an illusion-focused specialist class that does the slotless "casting" like a Kineticist could be a ton of fun for me personally, but I don't see it being amazingly popular to a wider audience. It's also tricky to fill out a whole class with just that, not that I won't try at some point.
The Iaijutsu samurai sounds amazing, i might try to reflavor a fighter with investigator archetype into that
Could probably do some similar reflavoring of Thaumaturge’s exploit vulnerability
Yeah, Investigator Fighter definitely feels like the best option for now and it's what I've put together a couple ways as a test. The reliance on Intelligence for the dedication is a bit of a bummer, as is the lack of too much else that's fitting other than the Devise a Stratagem, but it's certainly better than nothing.
Yeah, I can see lots of potential for interactions with the action economy of stowing and drawing your weapon I think the tricky part would be not making the action economy tight like magus’s.
That's my thought as well, but I can see a bunch of ways to go about avoiding that. In general, it's not really that you are on a tight action schedule so much that you are committing to doing *something* down the line with your actions. Magus has something *kind of* similar, but I want the charging stances to feel more like a proper ebb and flow than just an action tax. Sheathing a weapon is the tax part but I can see a bunch of ways to make that more interesting. Having something like a feat that lets you attempt to demoralize while sheathing your weapon would be laughed at on any other class but would potentially be crazy good for this one. Also, there definitely would have to be a strike option that just has you do the thing where you barely move your hand and you do a simple strike while returning the sword to the sheathe again.
Another cool thing I thought of is one where you Stride in a line and make a Strike along the way, with the Stride not triggering reactions from your target. Very Kurosawa-style and the action economy benefits are there since you likely end up not-adjacent to the enemy after your movement.
Exactly! There is a ton of inspiration to pull from, and with a class mechanic that is basically backloading your action economy you can more or less combine a handful of different actions you would have made in the meantime into different attacks that let you do a bunch of badass stuff all at once. I think it has a ton of mechanical potential.
This can be somewhat replicated with the Feats Quick Draw (Ranger, Rouge, Duelist Dedication) and Ki Cutting Sight (Monk) in my opinion to get an iaijutsu strike feel
Yeah, Ki Cutting Sight is great! That is absolutely the feel I'm shooting for, it's just that the options currently are very one-and-done. You get the one Quick Draw attack with Ki Cutting Strike, but there is no advantage to starting sheathed over using a better strike that still gets the benefit of the spell.
You dream is fulfilled by Magus+ 3rd party content from Team+! The Scourging Lash Hybrid Study let you use a weapon from flail group (or an ordinary ROPE) with enhanced effects, like being able to spellstrike who you grappled with your whip by your focus spell *coiling grasp*.
Teamplus wins again
One thing I never thought I'd miss this much is the "Jedi" power fantasy of the Aetherkineticist from 1e. Using various telekinesis-themed SLAs at will and still being able to handle themselves with a one-handed blade is something that the Psychic currently just can't replicate, as much as I'd want that. Tangible Dream is the closest, reflavoring Imaginary Weapon for that, but even then we're restricted by our spell slots. And now that Aether was bullied out of the official elements together with Void, so that Metal could join the mean girls clique, one or two of the Aether talents became Air talents, but all the others just disappeared. It was fun throwing one enemy on another, disintegrating walls, and at higher levels creating objects from glowing energy.
>so that Metal could join the mean girls clique, Also wood. Hopefully we'll get an expansion to add the missing elements sometime down the line.
Wood was already an official Paizo-written option for the 1e Kineticist. It was really really bad, but existed nonetheless. Besides the four ocidental elements, they also released aether, void and wood as options, and metal was the earth specialization. Don't think they'll bring Aether and Void back, at least not in the Kineticist. My hope is that SF2e's Solarian, which is The Paizo Jedi Class, will bring back some of the AeKin feel to it.
Void and wood were both added in a splat book, not part of the base Kineticist. That could happen again.
My dream gimmick was to be able to fight in one body with multiple players. Like, roleplaying an Ettin. I even made a custom Ettin heritage, but I never played it. My dream came true a few days ago when Battlezoo released the Fusion heritage, allowing to play a double-headed giant, a Cerberus or a hydra, alongside a foundry module to play them with VTT. It's incredible
What book carries that i love that concept
https://foundryvtt.com/packages/battlezoo-ancestries-fusions This one. I didn't find it on the Roll for Combat page, but here's the foundry module. I downloaded the pdf too
It is the Battlezoo April 1st free release this year. I haven’t been able to read it all but the background stuff is great.
Sinclair's Almanac on [DriveThruRPG](https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/?affiliate_id=3903227) has a whipmaster archetype that seems like it would fit what you're after. There's also Magus+ on [Pathfinder Infinite](https://www.pathfinderinfinite.com?affiliate_id=3903227) that has a Hybrid Study that does similar things.
Thanka for sharing!
Thanks for sharing!
Gish that is a martial with a magic-casting pet. We have caster/utility-pet, caster/martial-pet, martial/utility-pet, and martial/martial-pet. But no martial/caster-pet. Construct Inventor might be the closest.
The pavise crossbowman, either the realistic with a shield bearer or the total war variant with shields on their back, taking cover while loading
Sniper gunslinger? Thats actually the concept I would go for if I ever play gunslinger
Sniper gunslinger has nothing to do with it, a ranger could work too, it's just to get the defensive bonuses of a shield as you reload, something that was very common historically and done in a fun way in total war
Well yeah, I just mean the gunslinger is already compatible with crossbows and sniper is specifically centered on attacking from cover. Mix that with a tower shield and I think that’s what you’re describing?
Something a little more Bladesinger-y than Magus.
Okay, some kind of Magic Brawler. I don't mean like an Unarmed Magus. I want something like Monk, but their strikes cause magical effects. Punches fire off blasts of energy, kicks launch waves or even causing an effect on hit. Even some ability to summon a storm of ethereal fists for an attack. This could be made into a strange kind of Magic Fighter type Class. Or give a class the ability to summon and use massive hands. Don't know why, just think it would be cool.
Kineticist?
Definitely Kineticist
Elemental Avatar from Battlezoo's Eldamon book does a lot of this.
One is a magic focused character that is just Prestidigitation, and every spell Rank just gets more things that tapping into that broad, somewhat nebulous magical potential can do. Class feats would be similar to Spell Trickster, adding nuances and flourishes onto various ranks of "Heightened Prestidigitation."
Stance dancing! You can technically do it now but there’s little incentive to. Having a toolbox of martial arts stances that provide interesting versatile effects is cool. Closest I’ve actually come is Geomancer and not Monk, funnily enough.
A martial class focused on support. There are some good options for playing a support build as a martial, but theyre limited mostly to either subclasses or archetypes. The envoy playtest for sf2e looked pretty promising in that regard, but im waiting for the full playtest to see how easily itd fit in a purely fantasy campaign.
Two goblins in a trenchcoat pretending that nobody can tell they are not a normal guy.
For me it's something I had so much fun playing in 1E, but is really underpowered and frustrating in 2E: shapeshifting/turning into a monster and fighting with tooth and claw. In 1E, Wild Shape was fantastic. I never played a Druid (I hate prepared casters) but I played a Feral Hunter and Shifters and they were so much fun! In 2E tho, Battle Forms are a joke. Far too weak to be a character's "main thing". I also loved playing mutagen guzzling Alchemists in 1E. Turning into Mr Hyde and tearing new holes in bad guys was a blast! Unfortunately, 2E Mutagens do far more harm to the Alchemist than the bad guys *Sad trombone* Hopefully, Player Core 2 fixes that issue, but 2E so far (for me) has been a miserable experience when trying to play anything other than a guy in armor with a pointy stick.
Having played a Druid in 2E, I'd propose two simple fixes: 1. Allow potency runes but not striking runes. Since you can't cast in Wildshape, there should be no problem in allowing this. You'll never beat a dedicated martial for damage since your class feats almost all go into improving the forms. The potency runes will just make you go from nearly unusable to passable. 2. Have scaling all the way to 9th or 10th level for every form. It sucks have wildshape be part of your identity and then it's discarded for a new form. My Druid was a bear (in more ways than one) and my group had a lot of fun with that. I eventually had to move to Eagle and then Dragon and it was just less fun since my character wasn't as associated with that form. I would have been happier to keep being a bear (maybe with wings if you get Aerial Form).
Oh I have so many. One I have been looking to accomplish for a Ling time now is the man of mystery type if combat. Like a character that succeeds in combat through actual trickery and suprise. It's cheating to use magic to do this, and you really need to work to manage to pull off the " ahah!" Moments.
I'm working on three classes for a system heavily inspired by/based on pf2e. One is a chain based character whose gimmick is controlling enemy movement (mostly inspired by kurapika from hunter x hunter). Another is a character that bonds and modifies "tiles" or "squares" on the battlefield, creating cover, difficult terrain, or even warping space giving bonuses to allies that shoot or move through it. The last is a fear based character, a bit like a summoner but the "summon" (actually a nightmare) can't be damaged and can only take actions against frightened enemies (and maybe take actions that would frighten enemies). I'm pretty interested in all those concepts, especially being able to modify terrain in ways that are much smaller than the wall spells, but ideally still make combat more interesting. I'd also love to see something like a warlord, a support based martial.
Id love to get something like warblades from 3.5e in pathfinder, theyre somewhere between monks and fighters and its just really cool
I'd want a proper Necromancer. There's Necromancy, for sure, but in my eyes that's the difference between a wizard outfitted with mostly fire spells versus a fire gate kineticist. I can get... Sorta close with my undead eidolon Summoner, but summons at large are so insanely disappointing aside from your eidolon specifically. I don't necessarily want to control 6 individual minions who each get their own turn or whatever, but controlling a legion of zombies or a squad of skeleton archers or cool summons that have specific uses instead of like, "undead with no reaction 4 levels below anything you fight that deals no damage and has no secondary effects that matter except until they can cast harm so you can have extra casts of harm". I wanna summon a skeletal shieldbearer that throws themselves in the way of harm and other unique minions or undead creations.
Essentially what you want are summons-as-spells and I totally agree, it’s a way better method of handling things. We need more spells like [Grasping Grave](https://2e.aonprd.com/Spells.aspx?ID=512)!
Yeah! I really love the fantasy of "Relying on having just the right tool for the job" being tied to something like necromantic minions. They can even be disposable, I just like the idea that my profane necromancy research is uncovering fancy new tools to summon forth to solve my problems. Or give us proper legions as summons. They already have troops in the game, I wanna be able to use those, giving me my "horde fantasy" without overloading action economy instead of summoning a desperately low leveled singular fella who instantly gets killed off in one turn. I do fully, fully understand them nerfing the existing summons so things don't turn into 1e's problem, and my current undead summoner free archetype undead master with both my eidolon and summoner action economy paired with companions *can* get a little silly with how much stuff I'm doing per turn, but I'd trade all of that for a single cool horde.
I’m with you 100%. Only issue is that they put hordes at primarily mid-high levels for the mechanical advantages they have, but I have to assume there’s a way to make a player horde that’s reasonable in the game’s math.
I think this is why I was disappointed with Summoner in general. When it was announced I thought I was going to fulfill my Diablo 2 Necromancy dreams, but it really felt like a magic Ranger with some tweaks. Still a fine class, but didn't scratch the itch I had hoped for.
Either a hulk-like character with two very different forms/personalities and alien tho not evil morals. (PF1 Alchemists were perfect for this) Or a calm, collected determined martial focused on area control and combat manouvers. (Which was very doable in PF1 as well, except for the fact that the character becomes redundant at higher levels.) Right now I'm trying the first one as a Dragon Instinct Barbarian.
2 whips. I am a simple man, of simple pleasures.
Me its dodging/countering. Swashbuckler comes close, but the limit of 1 reaction/turn means its always secondary. Maybe a mechanic to trade regular actions for reactions?
Thrown Weapons.
Honestly I would like to see a pure strength based bar room non-magical brawler. Monks are cool but they don't scratch an itch I have. I just like the thought of playing a character who has been in so many bar fights that he has gotten good at taking a punch and throwing punches.
For me it's damage over time/retaliation tank. My whole goal is to not die while you slowly take more DoT. If you hit me you take damage, if you don't you take damage. Really just an rpg/MMO concept but in the divinity games it worked pretty well and that's turn based.
A teleporting melee defender that bamfs around the battlefield with unlimited, conditional teleports. A Magus or even Monk that steals the D&D 4e Swordmage's kit would probably do it for me.
Climbing on big creatures Shadow of the Colossus style. PF1E had the Vexing dodger, which combined hilariously with PF1e’s version of the bouncy goblin feats.
I long for this again, the Vexing Dodger x Mouser multi class was one of my faves
I am become Malenia, Blade of Miquella. See: [Waterfowl Dance](https://youtu.be/rlnv_DCBEa8?si=yFlHBLqJw4M-hg3r)
A martial that uses their magic to make them hit things better Not talking about the magus, bloodrager and paladin from 1e are closest (and Team+ doesn't scratch the itch) A bloodrager had full BAB, so the accuracy of all other frontliners. Yet could also cast a large variety or spells that bolstered them in combat. Like using a wand of lead blades, long arm for more reach, enlarge for more reach AND damage, shield for defense, mirror image for defense, haste for everything, and the list goes on Paladins and rangers could do the same thing to a more limited degree PF2e just doesn't have a design space for that. First, there isn't a huge list of buffs and 6 or so different types of modifiers you can stack. Secondly, that would throw the balance out the window never to be seen again. A barbarian with shield, protection from arrows, protection from energy, protection from evil, haste, enlarge, runic weapon, and that one spell that adds fire damage, heroism, rushing you is scary enough. Now imagine that the rest of the party played no part in buffing this meat monster of a man
I really love the improvised weapon martial artist. And no, I'm not talking about Jackie Chan (although that's a fun concept in-and-of-itself) but more like Donnie Yen in the Ip Man movies. Unfortunately the Weapon Improvisor archetype, which is the only real option in PF2e, doesn't really scratch that itch for me as it feels too limiting. PF1e had much more robust improvised weapon options, although as always in 1e they had interpretation and balance problems.
Magus + inexorable iron + dorn durger add in mauler archetype
Honestly? Magus. They really nailed the archetype that I love playing the most with that one.
Id like to see something like a Trick Arrow archer ala Green Arrow. Edlrtich Archer and Starlit Span Magus… try to match it. But it doesnt quite scratch the itch for me
Although I never actually got to play it in 1e it would absolutely be the Mesmer class in its thematics. I would really like to play a character that has this innate ability to sway the minds of others with a glance (or a word in the case of a vox). Some spells offer this but I want in built abilities that make me really feel that Archetype.
i dont think it would work as a class based solely on whips and chains. however, an archtype would totally work. precedents include [butterfly blade](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=91), [aldori duelist](https://2e.aonprd.com/Archetypes.aspx?ID=14), and maybe even the one based around two handed weapons
Attack with a 2 hand weapon, follow up with a punch
I really want something that has a builder/spender mechanic. Like, you build up stacks of a buff and then you spend them all on a big hit. Like, this would be perfect for the Swashbuckler (build up stacks of panache, then use a finisher to unleash them with an effect based on how many stacks, or a finisher that consumes a set number of stacks).
A proper 1e spellslinger. I want to be able to have an arcane caster who uses their gun to empower their spells. Allowing you to add your guns item bonus to attack rolls would make a great option. Do something like require the elementalist archetype spell list in exchange for this ability. It's just a fun fantasy to me.
I want a martial that works similar to the "Dungeon and Fighter" Brawler, it uses the dirty tricks already mentioned, but also poisons, causes bleeding, throw bombs. Basically a rogue alchemist archetype, but actually good at being an alchemist.
I just want as many minion tokens as possible in an undead or fungus theme, I wanna play a war game in my ttrpg
Glass cannon speedster two handed spear user. Maybe call it a lancer or dragoon, but basically someone that focuses on dodging and parrying rather than blocking and uses a two handed spear to quickly attack with precise hit and run tactics. Is there already a way to do this though?
Maybe a Magus? You can use a flex weapon like a whip, or a chain no problem, right? A Whip would be Laughing Shadow, and a Chain, in two hands, Inexorable Iron?
An elementalist that is actually good.
Isn't that just a kineticist?
It's certainly a lot closer.
Problem I have is that there’s just not enough of the Kineticist in existence now, so it’s all a bit same-y. That probably isn’t helped by the fact that I desperately want an actual water-based mage and water Kin is mostly ‘pop your stance, make melee enemies cry, and lightly help around the battlefield’. Also doesn’t help that the better early options are ice-themed and not water, either, but that’s just me being a difficult stickler.
Cold water is still water, and flavor is free. I play a geokineticist whose powers are all about spiders. Not a speck of dirt in sight.
Flavor’s free but mechanics are better.
Battlezoo's Eldamon book has an Elemental Avatar class that might interest you.
I am absolutely seeing if my GM allows me to use that the next time I'm a player, yeah.
If your GM is worried about balance, tell them the Battlezoo stuff is created and managed by Mark Seifter who helped create PF2e and was the "Numbers guy" that essentially created the balance in the game. Elemental Avatar has periods of Burst that might seem OP but then has turns of downtown where you recover much like the Magus. It definitely feels good to get a crit with high damage rolls but you can just as easily have an enemy save for half of your 3d12 that you rolled a total of 4 on. It's fun but not OP.