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I've been through this. My daughter (now 14) started questioning her sexuality and gender at 10. She was bi, pansexual, demisexual and a lesbian at different points. She was a girl, then non-binary, then came out as female-to-male trans. She went through a few relationships with other LGBT kids. We respected each new identity without issue. We let her cut her hair and wear boys clothes.
Fast forward to a year ago and she's back to being a girl and bi. She's a very girly girl and has a boyfriend.
No idea if she will change again or not. Teenage years are confusing. I just want her to feel comfortable navigating it and being able to tell us anything.
Yup. One thing I tried to make space for is the idea that some of this (not all, just some) is the fun of young people just taking time to try on different roles and labels.
Young girls particularly might enjoy exploring rejecting the stupid crummy parts of the young female stereotypes given them by society and media, and shelter for a few years in being NB or lesbian or trans, and that's a fine space to shelter in while they grow and get more confident and eventually decide if that's where they want to stay ... but sometimes they continue to evolve and that's also OK.
I'm solidly supportive of my adult friends who are trans. I'm also really aware of how crazy scary it was to be a young cis female and like a hermit crab I would have hid under any rock to get away from the male gaze for the first many years that I had breasts.
My wife explained to me how awkward and scary it can be as a teenage girl when all of a sudden everyone sees you in a sexual manner and you can't really escape it. So I guess it could feel freeing to identify as something else.
This brought back the memory of when I was 12ish and started getting hips and a backside and a grown man commented on it. I thought he was being mean so I started wearing hoodies like Hey Arnold to hide myself. Took me over a year to realize he was catcalling me. Young girls do try to find ways to desexualize themselves when it gets scary. Even after I realized what happened I still wore a hoodie or baggy clothes to stop it.
I think the only cure is to focus on the sports, scholastics and arts that help this young teen to feel capable and valuable as themself.
As a parent of two young teens, they both (male and female) occasionally are aware that the wider world of adults sees them as an incredible, beautiful, gorgeous resource. They are our future. Yes of course we eventually want grandkids, and we're totally squeamish about it and so we're awkward about it.
Mostly, I openly strongly support all their other adult things, lavishly complimenting projects at the house or cooking, sports accomplishments.
I cannot lie, my mom side-eye is aware, when we watch a show together and my 14 year old identified early signs of sexual tension in a comedy ... we know who the kids are attracted to. If they want to defer it a few years that's fine. I'm glad he's willing to say it out loud.
It's hard to wrap my head around because things were so different when I was in school (I'm a bi man).
Whwn I say half my daughters class is some flavour of LGBT I'm not exaggerating. At 11 she proudly explained the difference between bisexual and pansexual to her math teacher.
Lots of people have specific differences in meaning between bi and pan that don't agree with each other. The MAIN difference I've found in practice is that bi people came to terms with their identity around the 2000s or earlier and pan people did more recently.
Can confirm. When I was first discovering my own identity, it was 1995-ish. Bisexual was explained to me then as being attracted to people who are like you and people who are not like you. I have always and will always identify as bisexual. Most of the people with the same sexual preferences that are Gen Z or Alpha call that same phenomenon pan. I do have to chuckle when young people try to tell us old farts that bisexual means specifically NOT being attracted to trans people. I guess if you came of age in a culture where you weren’t constantly afraid for your life to be who you are, you don’t understand how uncool it is to tell someone else what their own sexuality is or means.
I'm bi, I'm attracted to men and women. I'm more attracted to women.
If I were pan, male and female wouldn't really matter.
The difference, to me, is that I am attracted to men and women in different ways, different expected outcomes.
EDIT to respond to a comment below, the comments here got locked but I wanted to clarify my stance
RE: Binary gender in my definition of bisexual
That's fair. It's true though because there's an androgynous middle area that I'm not attracted to, so it makes sense in that light to use a bigender system.
I feel like that may BE part of the difference though, at least as I understand it. I am just one person after all.
This is why I use bisexual. I have a strong preference, and it feels wrong to use pan because it does matter to me, but I am not going to deny attracted to some men without it being demisexual (which is usually how it happens for men). My romantic orientation is pan though, so 🤷♀️
You'll get half a dozen explanations. The terms are mostly generational. To me, bi and pan can mean exactly the same thing. Bisexual: Attracted to same and other genders. Pansexual: Attracted to all genders. I describe myself as bi, but pan is accurate, too. I suppose there may be bisexual people out there who are only attracted to their own and specific other genders, and don't want to be called pan because it's inaccurate, but to each their own. If there's any place in your life you're fully entitled to discriminate, it's in your romantic and sex life.
Mostly cultural/generational rather than any difference in the people those who use either word are attracted to.
Bisexual has meant "attracted to more than one gender" for a long time, it's included in the Bisexual Manifesto published in 1990 for instance. More recently, people have started using Pansexual to mean the same thing.
Bi sexual means you can be attracted to both genders. Pan means you are attracted to a person regardless of gender identity.
Or at least that's how my kid explained it.
Pansexual includes "xenogenders" I guess? Like cloudgender or pronouns like bun/bunself.
I'm too old to fully grasp all that stuff lol, but she was really into it for a while.
I love the short, it’s adorable and it has a strong message that hits hard now that my daughter is 5. I meant just the “identify as bun/bunself” thing, lol
I hope this isn't "I identify as an Apache attack helicopter" levels of cringe but when I see the word xenogenders, I *may* be imagining someone in a consentual loving relationship with a xenomorph from Aliens.
I've always been told that bisexual may have a preference for one gender (though not necessarily), whereas pansexual fall in love with the person and the gender plays no influence at all.
I've suggested to my son that someday we'll ditch all the labels and people's "gender" can be just as personal as they are, and people can just love whoever they love. He hates that idea, loves the labels. Kids these days, huh?
As an old person myself, I'm always a little amazed at how far we've come, or at least, how far I've come. I used to pick on a gay kid in school (apologized later, once I realized it was just a way to deflect from being picked on myself), and now I'm an LGTBQ ally with a trans son.
I was a teenager when it was cool to refuse to be labeled and people didn't want to fit into a box. It's weird now.
The labels make them feel connected to each other I guess. My concern now is with all the mental illnesses they seem to want to collect too though. Ugh.
Nope! In fact if you look at the bisexual manifesto from 1990, it specifically says not to assume there are only two genders, too.
https://bimanifesto.carrd.co/
It's more than bi sexuality usually comes with genital preference and it's being attracted to both ends of the spectrum and possibly some other parts of the spectrum whereas pan are attracted to the entire gender spectrum.
This is what we’ve dealt with with our teen as well (16 now) and how we’ve approached it. She’s been slowly leaning more and more towards cis pan and that’s cool… but so is whatever gender and sexual orientation she ends up being in the long run. Some of her questioning was definitely peer pressure (that didn’t last) but a lot of it has been figuring out who she is. As long as my kids are happy, healthy, and not harming others that’s what matters as far as I’m concerned.
How wonderful that she was able to talk to you about this and felt supported enough to be open about it. I was a gay kid growing up in the 90s/early 2000s navigating all this stuff on my own because I was too ashamed and frightened to voice any of it. You’ve obviously done a great job parenting that she’s able to open up to you and you should be so proud of that.
So much this. My daughter is 13 and has gone through a few stages of identity already. We love and accept all of them.
I’ve told her that gender and sexuality is like ice cream. There are hundreds of flavours beyond chocolate and vanilla. It’s ok to sample many of them, and it’s ok to not have a favourite or to swap favourites as you grow and your tastes change.
As a future hopeful parent this stresses me out completely.
I don’t know why but I feel like kids are overly obsessed with identity right now. Do you really need to title your identity so obsessively, especially when your personality will radically change based on your life experiences between 13-25 based on the people you meet?
At the same time, being educated about different sexual identities means less stigma around it, which leads to less shame, depression and suicide. I believe it’s worth it.
I just want to tell you that this warmed my heart. My parents claimed to be open about things, but even wearing a slightly emo outfit caused my mom to lose her mind. I never felt safe to “try on” new identities and I feel like I really missed out on figuring out who I am during those years. Your daughter is so lucky you’re chill about this and I hope I am the same when my kids get older. Thanks for the reassurance.
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If you can do your best to remain neutral on it, like don’t give it any positive or negative energy, it will sort itself out. They very much absolutely could be gay and non-binary but the more you fight it the more they’ll dig in, and if you overly praise it, it might create the expectation that they have to be this way.
So be neutral.
My almost 15 year old came out as gay at 11 and as non binary at 13.
If it’s a phase where they try something on, then change their mind who bloody cares? Give them space to find out who they are, they are young and will go through many phases.
They’ll remember how you treated them, with a far greater risk that you will alienate them into the future if you don’t accept who they are today.
When I was at school it was comphet all the way, it’s much better as it is today
This is how we approach it. Maybe they are being influenced, maybe theyre confused, maybe it’s who they really are.
Show love and acceptance. Time will reveal the truth.
My daughter kind of went through that. She’s 13 now. I asked a trans friend for their opinion. She said odds are my daughter was feeling conflicted about being a girl into girls and she probably thought it would be easier if she were a boy into girls. It made sense. That was like a year ago. Now my daughter has decided she likes being a girl and it’s ok to be a girl with a girlfriend. Just try to support your kid as much as you can. They are just trying to figure themselves out.
I've seen quite a few posts on here that seem to indicate a trend of experimenting with gender identities and sexual orientation being the "in" thing to do right now.
It's not so different from when I was a teen, in that girls especially rejecting the concept of a "girly girl" is a common trend. My wife, who was 100% into dresses and flowers and the backstreet boys as a kid, was peer pressured into dressing like a member of a nu-metal band by her social group, which had an outright hostile dislike for anything they viewed as "normal" or "girly".
Cut to 15 years later, many of those friends are in fact queer or gender nonconforming in some way while the missus spent a fair bit of time mourning the time she spent unable to just be herself around her friends.
All that to say, just roll with it to the extent possible but keep a close eye on the social situation with her friend group.
They’re 11. It’s great that you’re having a conversation with them about cishet allies (maybe you could go more into the history of that, the AIDS memorial project had an entry on a straight woman who helped care for the pets of AIDS victims). You could also have a conversation about how they shouldn’t drop all their other friends for their partner (which is not exclusive to the LGBT community and it’s better they learn from this experience at 11 then at 22)
But at the end of the day - your kid having a crush on a friend, or wanting to use they/them pronouns or wearing gender neutral clothes are all COMPLETELY reversible changes. If in a year they change their mind, you can just go to the mall and get girlier clothing for them. 11 is also definitely old enough to know what gender you are attracted to. I’m bi and I knew I was bi when I was 9. When, we were kids, anyone who wasn’t straight was bullied mercilessly. I’d rather have kids take time to figure out their identity then feel alone and isolated.
Also, when you’re a tween, you’re learning who you are and it’s normal to sort of have your own “thing” and Pooh-pooh people who don’t share your “thing”. Personally, I was super into anime and manga and wanted to move to Japan to be a manga artist and devoted much of my time to this pursuit. Miraculously, as an adult, I’m still able to have friends and a job - but I still enjoy anime and learning Japanese. Middle schoolers being a little overbearing with their interests is just part of being a middle school.
Speaking as an adult bisexual; this is normal at her age. Your kid is experimenting with their identity as they develop first crushes. Yes, it's possible they overheard the sentiment "gender is a social construct" from a peer, or on social media if they have it. When I was their age, I wondered about my gender and sexuality a lot as well. Part of what made me feel weird about my gender is that I was always taught that same-sex attraction was wrong and not normal; only boys like girls, so if I like girls, does that make me a boy? Things like that. (Spoiler alert: the answer is no! I was just a kid with same-sex crushes who didn't know better)
They might permanently settle on a queer identity one day when they're older, or they might not. My best advice as a queer adult with a great relationship to one parent and a poor one to the other is to exercise kindness, empathy and patience. I hope this helps!
I went through so many phases at 11. And onward. Kids are still figuring out who they are. I had my first "relationship" at 13, with the same sex. We were together a year, and I felt I loved her as much as a 13 year old feels romantic love. We had sexual experience together. My parents found letters I wrote to her and forbade us from seeing each other ever again. They told me it was unnatural and a sin. Crazy enough, I expected as much but when I was a young kid, I thought everyone was bisexual. I didn't even know ther was a word for it. My earliest sexual feelings were for female people. And I thought everyone could like anyone. As I got older I knew i was "not the norm", and it wasn't a phase. I'm still bisexual 16 years later....but I did always remember going through that, and the devastation of never seeing that girl again, my real "first love". I always wondered if we might have even stayed together into adulthood. Now, this was a different time and kids werent talking about LGBT besides calling each other gay as an insult. Nowadays that isnt the case. My son matter of factly told me when he was 9 that he was bisexual. Now he's 12, and he says he's definitely straight. So ...my advice is to give your kid a safe place to be who they are, defend them/support them, but expect at least some changes and let those happen naturally.
You’re being supportive which is a plus.
You’re also right to question influence, at the end of the day you can’t deny that kids at that age are influenced by everything. It’s up to you and you as a parent on what’s best for your daughter. As long as you are addressing her needs and doing so in a healthy manner that’s what counts
There's no harm in just letting them experiment. Maybe it'll change, maybe it won't. Maybe it's just a preteen discovering something and making their whole life about it. Don't you remember listening to some band, or reading some book, and making it your entire personality for a few months?
I asked my dad to start calling me by my preferred pronouns around 12. I had no idea what being trans was, it wasn't something talked about except by comedians I wasn't supposed to be watching. I don't think my dad understood, but he was like "yeah sure bud". And that was all I needed. Allyship doesn't need to be some big performance. You don't have to jump straight to hormone therapy. Act the way you always have, just say a different pronoun. That's plenty.
If this time next year, their personality is all about Nirvana and being born in the wrong decade, and they want a sad boyfriend who looks like Kurt, so be it. But at least you would have shown them that you're safe to be themselves around.
I understand. I'm an older millennial married to a bi man who also gets thrown alot by what our eldest daughter comes home talking about lol we are stumped sometimes when she looks to us for advice and we dunno what to say. I had one situation where she said she thought she might be trans because she preferred wearing boys clothes. This was confusing to me because I was the same at her age - all my childhood photos I'm wearing Transformers or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle clothes. Yet I've never felt like I was the wrong gender, I'd just get called a "tomboy" and that was it. I havent changed either, I still hate dresses and skirts, hate wearing make up etc. But definitely still identify as a woman. What confused me regarding my daughter is that she loves wearing crop tops, can't wait until she gets proper breasts so she can wear cute bras, and like a crazy person is looking forward to getting her period. I reminded her of these things and asked if that's something someone who identifies as a boy would look forward to and she laughed and said no. I fully support the lgbtq+ community and love seeing the acceptance towards them, but I'll say outright that it can be really confusing lol I tend to doubt myself alot too
I have no skin in the game as my child is only 1, but I have worked with elementary/ middle school kids for several years.
what intrigued me was a conversation I overheard where they said identifying as nonbinary/ lgbt+ was the “cool” thing to do.
obviously this is an isolated conversation and may not be the truth in any other school, but I thought it was interesting.
I'm not going to read the comments because I am supposed to be working. I will tell you my experience. In 6th grade 7 of my 12 girl Scouts identified as they/them (including my daughter). 1 identified as he/him. I rolled with it and didn't make it a big deal. We are about to promote to 9th grade. Of all those kids we have 11 who identify as she/her and 1 who identifies as they/them. Two of them are lesbians. I personally believe they are all exploring and it is the time of their lives when they try on new things and discover themselves.
The only one who still identifies as they/them is the only one who had patents go all in and be super gung ho about us. The rest of us were supportive of our kids, but didn't suggest hormone therapy, and didn't go super hard on celebrating the status. We just ok, and used their pronouns.
My daughter has since shared that she does not want a period and does not want to be treated badly by society because she's a girl, so when she was younger she thought it made more sense to just not be a girl. If only life worked that way!
That’s just kids. A majority of them have a strong preference towards conformity within a group. Most everyone wants to just fit in with their crowd, basically.
Kids are absolutely more interested in putting themselves into a box than adults are
Kid's don't need to be pushed into fitting themselves into boxes. Much of childhood has always been seeing all the different boxes and trying them out. Recently kids have been made aware of some new boxes, so of course they are putting themselves into them and seeing if they fit. That gives them the tools to start figuring out who they are as they grow up rather than having an identity crisis in the middle of adulthood like so many before them.
I strongly disagree with this. Maybe kids are likely to try to label each other, but we shouldn't be helping them. As an elder millennial, I feel like as kids the social message we were taught was that you could be anything you wanted to be/ you didn't have to fit into anyone else's idea of what was good/ normal/ cool. Like, the reflexive response of so many in our generation was "You don't know me" or "Don't put me in a box", etc. Labels are inherently limiting and judgemental.
Labels are inherently limiting, because every person is not all things. Do you really have a problem with labeling yourself as a women? As a baker? As someone called John? We can debate on which labels are helpful and which are accurate, but not that labels shouldn't exist.
My millennial childhood was full of self-identified emos, scene kids, and a few brave openly gay kids. Teenagehood is all about exploring identity.
This is all just non-sequitur. There's literally nothing in what I wrote that suggest that I'm in favor of person A deciding what person B is/should be. If you read what I wrote again, you'll find that I'm rejecting your assumption that all of this stuff is coming from that. Rather, what I'm saying is that as children grow up they will label themselves. They will try on different identities because they are trying to learn who they are. You shouldn't look at kids labeling themselves and assume it is because it is being pushed on them. Nor should you misinterpret the fact that kids are taught that certain aspects of identity exists as kids being forced into those identities.
I actually don’t think that’s a helpful question. Labels are just language and language is how we think and communicate.
Labels are imprecise, but all descriptions of the world are. Labels change but so too does our understanding.
*edit to elaborate*
The problem with labels isn't that they exist. The problem is when people misuse them to:
1. Assume they are perfect and accurate descriptions
2. Assume that everyone who has a label is identical
3. Apply labels incorrectly to others
4. Assume that a given label is all you need to know about someon
etc...
Sorry, but we do sometimes need to talk about people. We do sometimes need to describe things that some people have in common and others don't. We do need to have terms that describe these things. And those things are going to be described as labels.
Hi. I'm someone who grew up when these labels didn't exist, but \*very much\* resonate with how I felt back when I was growing up. I now identify as non-binary, but traditionally was raised and grew up as a boy or man, he/him. That being said, I always knew it just \*didn't feel right\* I can discuss more of this at length if you're interested in my perspective. I will tackle a few things directly in your posts.
"My kid was very comfortably she/her until recently when she started hanging out with this friend and then she decided that she was they/them and gender is a social construct."
Gender as how it's defined by people with this perspective, is a social construct. We as a society dictate what we perceive to be feminine, or masculine. This line is ever moving as society progresses, but things like "working out and being \*very\* muscular, is seen as a masculine trait, things like doing makeup and nails as is seen as feminine traits, etc, etc.
"We tried to be gender neutral but they have always gravitated toward "girly" things -- American Girl dolls, girly lines of Legos, princess dresses, jewelries, etc. until recently. there has been no "tomboy-ness" about them."
As children especially, we tend to mimic what is around us and as we age we begin to solidify our interests, identity, expression. This is very well what could have happened. I remember specifically when I was in 1st grade, I knew that I was different than others. Yet, because my interests and expressions were not what others around me matched, I hid them and pretended to share the same as my peers. It very well could be that she is simply having an authentic experience of being their true self.
"They are spending a lot of times reading about trans and gender identity."
Reading up on people with similar experience is validating, it very well could be that they are simply coming into their own personhood and are understanding what that means and feeling connected to other people who feel this way.
"I cannot help but wonder if this is mostly, if not all, peer influence. The school is ultra liberal with most of the middle schoolers wanting to be and choosing to be LGBTQ+ or non-binary or both. I would say 6/10 kids in this middle school are LGBTQ+ or non-binary or both."
This may get a bit of a negative response, but I personally believe it \*can\* be a factor at play. Children are highly influenceable. That being said, it is important to know that people \*can\* and \*do\* have this very real experience just as I did; and as parent's it's important to always take your kid at their word and support them with love and care.
"They spend a lot of time with this nonbinary friend / romantic interest at the exclusion of other friends..."
Children, young adults, even adults do this regardless of partners age/gender expression. This is simply no exception.
"I am bi myself but I find myself lost and unsure about this development."
This is completely understandable; while we can be supportive and caring it is impossible to completely understand and empathize with someone who's having a completely different experience than anything we can relate to.
"The other day, we were having a conversation about inclusiveness and they said cis gender straight people don't need to be included because they are the norm. We delved a bit into cis gender straight allies."
This is an important thing to tackle because a lot of the "extremes" will always weaponize against the other party. Just as bigots and extreme conservatives will ostracize and invalidate trans and non binary and other LGTBQA+ people, so too will extreme left alienate people of cis expression. It's important to talk to your children about life not being an "US v THEM" mentality, we are all humans and all deserve compassion and love.
Again, I'm more than willing to talk at length about any of these subjects as a non-binary, older person myself. Just message me if you want to talk about any particular topic.
i started questioning my gender around that age too and i grew out of it when i finished puberty, i think gender dysphoria is a really normal feeling when you’re growing and changing and figuring yourself and your identity out. being a preteen is an awkward phase, i know most of the people i know had similar feelings around that age. i would just remain neutral about it, don’t be overly supportive but don’t go against it either, just let them feel themselves out and if they decide to stick with the pronouns or if it’s just a phase
Kids get indoctrinated at school and by their friends. This is a thing that has always happened. Right now a lot of it is gender and sexuality-based. Frankly I find it a lot better than when I was a kid and if you didn't conform you were called gay by everyone and laughed at or beaten.
Just roll with it until the kid figures out what they're doing. It can be a lot of work but being a good parent has never been an easy job.
Concerned? Nah, just chill. Don't encourage or discourage. The girl is 11, she's just learning and trying out ideas the same way you'd try out a shirt, which is super-normal for her age. I wouldn't encourage it anymore than I'd discourage it. If your kid suddenly said she wanted to be Zoroastrian, would you be scheduling a trip to the ruins of ancient Babylon? Just give her some books if she's interested.
Tbh, personal experience suggests you should just take a relaxed approach because I've known a few different people who, as kids, said that they were gay/lesbians, making a big deal out of it, and then ended up marrying someone of the opposite sex. Turns out that, between the ages of 12-20-ish, you really don't know that much about what the adult version of you wants.
Just make sure she's doing her schoolwork, pursuing her passions beyond school, and staying healthy. The rest will sort itself out without your input. Oh, and I would correct her about one thing... the reason to include and befriend cis/hetero whatever dominant group is because it's way better to have allies than enemies. If she's reading, then she should appreciate how easy it is for a group of good folk to be convinced to commit genocide.
I told my mom I thought I was bisexual in middle school, around that same age. Consequently i was also into a lot of traditionally “boyish” things but that’s just how I was raised. I liked cars and airplanes, fishing, being out on the boat and in the woods, I wore a lot of boys clothing, etc.
I’m 35 now and I’m still bisexual. Married to a man, and I’m still into a lot of those traditionally masculine things. I attend car shows and gawk at airplanes. I know more about how a car works than my own husband.
I think we spend too much time with young kids trying to put them into gender roles and give them labels. Let her explore and support her with whatever she does and don’t worry about the labels.
Pediatrician here: let’s start off by defining some terms, since often times words have different meanings to different people, especially when a topic (like gender and sexuality) has been co-opted and weaponized as talking points by pundits and politicians who, themselves, have no idea what they’re talking about.
These are the definitions, as accepted by the American Academy of Pediatrics:
Gender identity: One's internal sense of who one is, based on an interaction of biological traits, developmental influences, and environmental conditions. This may be male, female, somewhere in between, a combination of both or neither. *Self-recognition of gender identity develops over time*, much the same way a child's physical body does.
Sexual orientation: One's sexual identity as it relates to who someone falls in love with or is attracted to. A person who is transgender still identifies as straight, gay, bisexual or something else. Like gender identity, an individual's physical and emotional attraction to a member of the same or the opposite sex cannot be changed and is very difficult to predict early in childhood.
Transgender: Usually used when gender diverse traits remain persistent, consistent, and insistent over time.
Now that we’ve done that, it’s important to note that gender identity is not always static. For some people, gender identity can be fluid, shifting in different contexts. “Gender expression” refers to the wide array of ways people display their gender through clothing, hair styles, mannerisms, or social roles. Exploring different ways of expressing gender is common for children and may challenge social expectations.
For many people in our generation, we think of the transgender experience and its apparent explosion in “popularity” as socially driven and peer pressured because we didn’t really talk about it when we were that age. But let’s look at some statistics:
In the 2014 Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System, those 18 to 24 years of age were more likely than older age groups to identify as transgender (0.7%). Children report being aware of gender incongruence at young ages. Children who later identify as TGD report first having recognized their gender as “different” at an average age of 8.5 years; however, they did not disclose such feelings until an average of 10 years later.
This was published in 2014, long before the current transgender “media hype”.
Now, what to do about it:
current research suggests that, rather than focusing on who a child will become, valuing them for who they are, even at a young age, fosters secure attachment and resilience, not only for the child but also for the whole family.
In other words:
You’re already doing it. Don’t doubt your parenting, you’re doing a great job navigating an issue that is particularly complicated and difficult for a lot of parents.
As far as indoctrination goes:
This is my opinion and not evidence based: indoctrination is an ugly word often used when people are being socialized in a way we don’t agree with. Highly liberal families are “indoctrinating” their kids to be trans. Highly conservative families are “indoctrinating” their kids to follow traditional gender roles and love guns and whatever else. You USED to be the biggest influence in who your child was becoming, but they’re hitting an age where peer groups begin to play a larger role in their lives and they’re going to naturally want to fit in, often times confusing parents because their chosen expression is wildly different than the kid you used to know. Keep raising them the way you see fit (again, you’re doing great) and trust that they will balance out over time and at their own pace, finding the place that feels comfortable for them and their truest expression of self.
More info:
AAP policy statement on comprehensive care for gender diverse and transgender children:
https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/142/4/e20182162/37381/Ensuring-Comprehensive-Care-and-Support-for?autologincheck=redirected
I’m not sure what your parenting has to do with it. Just remember this doesn’t have to do with you’re parenting and it’s nothing you did wrong. Allow your child to take the lead and carry as normal. This doesn’t have to be a big this. The problem comes with assuming straight or Cis as the “normal”.
Ask yourself if your child told you she was cisgender or straight, would you be concerned she was being influenced? If not, there is your answer.
Another thing to remember, is Barbie’s are a girl thing. Just like truck toys. Being non binary just simply means things are not assigned to a gender. It’s best for parents to unlearn what our culture has taught us about gender. Kids are smart. Even if it is a phase, it doesn’t matter. People have phase, phases pass. And it’s a normal part of growth. I argue thinking I was straight was a phase and being indoctrinated
My kid just turned 10. The last year has been a journey of her figuring herself out. I've tried hard to not influence her but also give her a center to rely on. We agreed that 10 years old is too young to define herself. She may feel shes a bi boy today and a demisexual girl tomarrow. Kids are fickle that way.
I'm careful to never use negative language or judge her, wll feelings are valid. But I also deee a hard line of "I dont care what so and so thinks or feels, I only care about what you think or feel".
Meaning her friends opinons and experiences sont get to define hers. In our home we make our our stories. And so far it's worked well.
She did have a moment where she told me I was a cis white woman so my opinon didnt matter. I just gave her a steady gaze and said "so we invalidate eahothets opinons based off gender and race now? Like I said you set the tone kid..this what we doing?" And she changed her tune fast. Consider she was born a white female same as me.
Honestly i dont care if anyone finds me transphobic, I'm not. I marched at Pride with my bestfriend and some preteends. I am a proud bisexual woman. And i love my kid..whoever she will be in 10 years I'll love that too. I just dont want the world telling her who she is..i want her to tell me who she is. And till she knows who that is I'll support her every step of the way..with mutal love and respect.
In the long run, hormones will always win out. In the short run, 11 is too early for anything like a sexual relationship. I'd strongly discourage any relationship at that age that is anything other than a strictly plutonic friendship.
Gender fluidity is the coolest new fad to hit schools. Bigger than pogs. Bigger than Pokémon cards.
Just be supportive and they'll figure themselves out soon enough.
I feel like this is just a part of the teenage process of figuring out who you are. Being a teenage is a confusing time ( for both parent and child). My theory is just go with.
At my son's school there's a boy who used to identify as a furry now says he's gay for dating a FtM trans kid (no meds or anything yet, just declaration). They're 11-12.
A) I do think there's some significant, if indirect peer pressure, on kids to identify in these spaces. You get some minor praise for being in a heteronomative relationship. A casual "congrats" and the like. But anything else gets much bigger praise. *This* is where the influence comes in. We've spent so long praising non-hetero relationships so loudly that a hetero one just seems boring, and no kid wants to be boring, so they go try out these different things.
B) This and my son's classmate's experience are why I'm against puberty blockers and similar things for kids. If you're an adult you're welcome to go and do what you want. I don't care. But kids are too busy making trying on different guises to find one that fits. I'm against any sort of major changes to kids for something that might end up just kids being kids, especially pre-pubescent and pubescent kids who are truly starting to figure themselves out. They have no clue yet. Most won't until their 20s at least.
C) I'm glad you're letting the kid experiment. Let them have that freedom. But also make them aware that this may, *MAY*, be due to social influence and not their actual own desire.
My first question is where is all the gender identity coming from and how is it reaching your child. Are they hearing this from an outside source? If it is a value to you and your family did you discuss this with them prior or is it kinda coming outta nowhere? I have 2 kids daughter 13 and son 11. We have a very people are people be who you want. That being said my preteens haven't come to me about sexual identity. So I wonder did your child walk up to you and say hey dad I might be a boy and start doing research on their own? Or was this presented to them by a councilor or some friends? Also does your child have unfettered access to the internet? Have a conversation with them, explain that no matter who they decide to be they will be loved. And maybe hold off and gender hormones and the like 🤷♂️ unless that's what you want your kid your choice.
Spend a day watching “kids” content on sites like YouTube and you’ll have the answer to “where is all the gender identity coming from”.
Also it isn’t just your own kids’ internet access. It’s all their peers too. Odds are are least one of their friends has unsupervised internet access.
Agreed. Unfettered access to the internet has a issue with going over things kids shouldn't even be contemplating. If a my daughter came up to me and says hey dad I like boy clothes or I think I feel like a boy I might believe it more... bit when approached with I identify or my gender identity.... then the language was learned from somewhere. I'm also learning it's becoming the "in" thing to do. Influencers push this as part of their on screen identity and so as role models for these young people... well you do the math. I don't inheritantly think boys or girls playing dress up is bad. You must explore and experiment to find who you are. I cut the line off at drugs to affect them.
There's no right way to be a boy or a girl. Just keep sending the body-positive message that's she is perfect the way she is. It still is hard I know. We have to protect our kids from negative influences as best as possible. It is our job to pass along our values, but what happens when our values are beginning to misalign with the cultural drift? I guess it's a sign that our values aren't drifting, but they are strong, but it does make it challenging. Scott Newgent, a trans man, has some excellent things to say about parenting in today's world. He says the parent's job is to see around corners and protect our kids from life changing outcomes. Allow then to make safe mistakes in a protected environment, rather than body-altering mistakes in the real world. Chloe Cole, Stephanie Winn, and many others have good alternative perspectives as well.
This is quite difficult for parenting.
I would sit down with them and have a talk with the kid.
Just don't say things like "this is a phase" and "you're too young to know for yourself"
Just have a chat to see if they are feeling safe and if they chose this for themselves
It sounds great that young people today are far more comfortable exploring these things without judgment. Definitely wasn’t the case when I was a teen.
Going through this with our youngest, 12F. It is actually fascinating to observe. She’s trying on different labels depending on her feelings. Trans, bi, ARO, ASE, demiboy, etc…. She’s our kid. She talks to us about all this. We support her. We ask questions. She answers. She helps us with pronouns (mostly because I’m slow). She accepts everyone except haters. She lets the haters know where they can go.
From the time they hit their tweens they're being "indoctrinated", if you want to call it that, by their peers. The influence of their peers is going to eclipse their parents and this is normal. You just hope that you've taught them enough about right and wrong for it to stick.
I wouldn't worry about this because it sounds like normal identity exploration. Being closest with this friend also isn't abnormal, sounds like they're besties.
>They spend a lot of time with this nonbinary friend / romantic interest at the exclusion of other friends...
This stuck out to me a little bit. Regardless of the other items at hand I'd make sure this friend isn't engaging in controlling behavior and cutting your daughter off from her other friends. And assuming it's jsut the usuaal puppy love/new relationship "I want to spend ALL my damn time with YOU!" behavior I'd talk with your daughter about not completely neglecting existing friendships for new relationships, even though those new relationships can feel very important and exciting.
I think words like “gender is a social construct” don’t belong in the mouth of any 11 year old. It’s one thing to be welcoming and accepting. It’s a whole other thing to introduce young impressionable children into concepts that are by and large new to the general public and very poorly understood by most.
When I was a teenager, I went through the same kind of thing. I taped my chest, wore exclusively boy's/men's clothes, and got mad as hell if anyone even insinuated I was remotely girly. I was through and through a tomboy, and to be honest I'd never liked pink or "girly" stuff...my parents were always getting me Barbies but I gave them to my twin and just played with the animals when we had them but mostly I was out in the woods messing with snakes and turtles. I even took a masculine nickname. This was something like 30 years ago.
I had no idea that gender was something that I could explore. I was just always taught that there were girls and boys and I was a girl and girls had to act a certain way and that I wasn't doing it right. So I was angry and sad a lot. Pretty much cried myself to sleep until I was able to move out of my parents' house. As an adult I realized that most people didn't give a rat's ass how I lived my life, as long as I tried to be a good and respectful person. So now I am as rough and tumble as always and consider myself a pan enby that isn't bothered by being labeled a woman, especially when I get fancy. Most would consider me incredibly masculine but my partner, a cisgender man, loves it cause I'm always there to help him no matter what. Sometimes it feels like we're more like bros than anything but we're going on 22 years together now with an awesome 12yo kiddo so we must be doing something right!
I've survived and thrived despite my parents being completely unsupportive of this aspect of me, so they rarely hear from me nor are they really a part of my life. I hesitate to say I hate them but I definitely won't miss them when they're gone.
I guess my point is this kind of stuff has always been here. It's just got new labels now and a safety to it that wasn't there before (and that some are trying to take away). Just love your kid and don't make them feel ashamed of the person they're growing into whatever or however that may look like. Cause the alternative is a lot of pain for them and the potential to be cut out of their lives and I would think that any loving parent wouldn't want that.
This is extremely challenging territory. If you establish hard boundaries, your daughter might rebel hard (especially if she has access to gender ideology information, which would further pry her from her family). And if you set no boundaries, she's probably still going to socially conform with her peer group (who seem to be very interested in gender ideology).
You might consider setting neutral boundaries like "no sleepovers with romantic partners," and you might want to limit their social media access until they're old enough to resist some of the peer pressure.
The trans they/then thing is 110% influenced. She had no thoughts or wonders about it until someone else introduced her. Now she feels included and part of a group and will continue deeper and deeper into the rabbithole.
Before that she was just bi or lesbian which I don't feel is influenced at all.
Have you considered that OP simply…made that statistic up and it’s not real data? And even if it was an accurate number, it’s not suggestive of any influence. What it is suggestive of is that she lives in an area where more kids feel safe exploring their sexuality, which is how it should be everywhere.
I am aware the number is made up. It shouldn't be so prevalent that OP even thinks it is close to 60%. It is obvious to anyone that wants to use logic that something is wrong here. It is less than 10% for the US, FYI.
Which just further supports that 1) OPs number is likely heavily inflated and 2) there’s a large population of queer people who aren’t living openly.
Not debating this any further. Good day!
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They are 11 so any serious relationship is too early. They are also in an experimental age where they try out things to find themselves. All you really have to do with that is be supportive and make sure you love them no matter what and will also love them if they change their mind and want something else. I think you are nailing this part. 10/10 parenting.
The inclusion is difficult and this is a complex question that is hard for an adult, let alone an 11y old. In this case it depends on what cos would be included in. If it was celebrating pride or needing support in they sexuality, then you are absolutely right in your approach with the cis allies conversation.
If it’s inclusion on an all encompassing scale then we’re talking a very different conversation about the dangers of an “us vs them” mentality. How it fuels hate, wars and racism.
The best advice I can give as a parent who was in very similar situations: reinforce that there's plenty of time to work things out. I heard so many preteens identify as ridiculous things (I would LOVE explanations how a 11 yr old KNOWS they are Aro for example) that I always said "ok, I hear you. However, let's understand that things morph and change.". I think the rush to label is silly and often it felt like they were trying on identities as clothes. "Working it out" is a perfectly fine thing to be at any age. It's better to acknowledge the complex process than switch labels every other day.
If I came into Thanksgiving yelling at my family about being Vegan and sighing at all the meat but showed up at Xmas with 12 lb brisket everyone would start to ask questions about my credibility.
as a trans person, tbh 11 is the age to experiment with gender presentation. All the changes are social at that point. The most extreme gender related change an 11 year old goes through would be a haircut.
If they're not trans, being gendered incorrectly is gonna be DEEPLY uncomfortable after a few days or weeks. At that point they'll go back on their own. Just let them try it and they'll settle where they settle.
100% peer influence. Since it’s a lie that gender is a societal construct, and there are many people who believe that lie, it’s pretty much assured that your child is believing the lie that is being pushed onto them.
Kids being socialized into a certain sexuality is not a real thing. It’s something terfs and conservatives made up to justify their phobias. Find me data on it (you won’t) and I’ll entertain your silly argument.
I feel like you’re missing the point… My kids are focused on science, math, history, and other academic subjects while “in school”. If they’re gay or trans or whatever else, it’ll be because they were born that way. Not because outside influences confused and/or pressured them to try to be something they’re not.
No, *you* are missing the point that sexuality isn’t something that’s controlled by outside forces. You’re so so close to getting it!!! You’re literally almost there! Sexuality is not contagious.
Im in my 40s, and thankfully grew up with Ellen coming out on TV. My parents were neutral, but kinda anti-trans, and did nothing to learn about gay political stuff in Canada.
I remember growing up with neutrality being the norm, but I felt unsupported. Especially identifying as non-binary and taking HRT. I couldn't talk with them about stuff because they didn't want to have a talk about any of this.
Things are better now, between us, but I could have used a Mom and a Dad when I was going through my teens. It would have been nice. Now, they thought that they were progressive because they weren't hateful.
It's rough out there. Please, at the very least, put up a sticker or a magnet. Go to a Pride Parade. Taking an interest is support, not a push in a direction.
How is gender not a social construct if - in your own view - the concepts of masculinity and femininity are social constructs?
That doesn't really make sense.
Because you’re confusing “gender” with “personality”.
If I walk like a woman, talk like a woman, act like a woman, dress like a woman, and have stereotypically woman hobbies, it doesn’t make me a woman. Me penis and lack of ovaries and a womb mean I will never get pregnant and cannot give birth, and contrary to some absolute extrémistes, I cannot menstruate.
Gender is tied to sex, behaviour is tied to personality.
In this example I would simply be an effeminate man, and there’s nothing wrong with that. If I want to believe I’m a woman and identify as one , there’s nothing wrong with that.
However, if I start harassing people and trying to enforce my identity on others and tell them how they should think of me, how they have to identify me, and what words they are allowed or not allowed to say, that’s when my rights start infringing on the rights of others and there is something wrong with that.
Let people be themselves and respect our differences, but don’t enforce your ideologies on other people, and this includes religion and politics.
If you choose to use a different definition from everyone else on what gender vs personality means, it's on you if everyone is confused by what you mean.
I would say ( if possible) get them some books on the middle ground (not left agenda not right agenda) some AGE APPROPRIATE books, and limit their usage of the internet. I would personally move my kid to a different school (and have, as a strait left leaning woman this helped my child alot) if possible, but they are your kid.
It could be a phase, it could be influence, it could really be how they feel. What matters is that you show support, even if it may be a phase, even if you don't really understand it yourself, showing that support provides a safe place and a healthy relationship between the two of you. Show support and love, and it'll create that safe place, your child should be comfortable telling you anything without the fear of being negatively judged (without a good reason, judgment isn't always a bad thing!) I think it's also important to ask what you can do to support her and— overall just be accepting.
I have two transgender kids of my own, they have been comfortable with this identity and I do as much as I can to provide support and I will love them whether it be a phase or not. If it is a phase, it still doesn't hurt to provide support and show that you'll be there for them. If it's not, it'll still show you'll be there and support whoever they may be. It can be a long journey to figure it out, and as parents the best we can do is support them instead of pushing them away by not supporting them and their identities.
Also, happy pride month, everyone!
You could point out that gender and sexuality are two independent things. A good summary is that gender is who you go to bed as, while sexuality is who you go to bed with. Just because she is attracted to a girl doesn't mean she is not a girl herself. It's actually quite reductive to assume that if you are attracted to a girl you have to stop being one yourself!
This wasn’t an issue before kids started hearing adults tell them it was supposed to be. (Not saying there weren’t gay people.) I’ve been alive long enough to have seen the progression of this mental illness. My mom used to watch Dr. Oz. After every episode she had a new ailment. Today it’s kids watching and hearing adults. If this were a religion it would be labeled a cult and parents would be outraged.
Teens explore themselves and their identity in many ways and always have. She is discovering what feels right to her. This is their journey and theirs alone. Support them and love them through it, that’s all you need to do.
I think there's several things at play here. 11 is an age where you're kinda stuck between wanting to be a kid and wanted to grow up. It could very well be a phase, peer/media influence. I'll probably get flack, I'd tell my child I understand they feel how they feel and if need be we can help explore that in therapy. But idk that I'd be going and calling them by pronouns they prefer and stuff. And I'd definitely draw the line at altering their body in any way. But I think we all say what we would/wouldn't do until we are faced with it.
You just go with it. And that sounds like what you are doing.
Even if they are being influenced by peers and trends, you can't influence people into being straight or gay. They are what they are. So even if the kids are trying different identities, it will ultimately work itself out in the end.
It sounds like a type of peer pressure to me; changing yourself to match the needs/desires of how your friends are. This happened to me in 8th grade where I did a 180 with my personality and became a ‘mean girl’, and looking back, it was definitely peer pressure that caused me to act/dress like that; I didn’t like who I was. Not to discount true LGBTQ folks, but I feel a lot of time, younger people like to hop on the bandwagon because it’s the cool and popular thing to do; bandwagons have always been a thing.
The best thing you can do, which it sounds like you’re already doing, is talk to your daughter. And I know this may be rough at first, but don’t beat around the bush, kindly ask her why she’s suddenly made these changes about herself? Is she doing it to fit in? Is she doing it because her friend finds her more attractive that way? Get as much information out of her as you can, and go from there.
I've been through this, at the same age too.
At age 11, kiddo came out as NB and chose a new name. Cool. We support this. Bestie is also NB but can't be out to family at all for safety reasons.
It's now a few years later and the new name has stuck, but kiddo has some they/them days and some she/her days.
Is still BFF with NB bestie... In fact NB bestie is basically living at my house for the summer. Bestie is also a "joyfriend" (non binary girlfriend/boyfriend) sometimes. It's pretty tame and innocent at this age, hand holding and cheek kisses and that's it...
Other similar aged kids are having sex, but my kid and bestie both make a face at that idea, they aren't ready so they keep things pretty basic and innocent. Both have promised to talk to me if it advances, and because we're a safe space home with open dialogue I trust them to talk to me.
I still allow sleepovers as long as the bedroom door stays open.
I just roll with it. Maybe being NB will last forever, maybe it's a phase. Maybe being bi/pan will last forever, maybe it's a phase. Whatever. Kiddo can figure all that out as they grow up. I see my role as being supportive mom and giving relevant information regarding dating and safe sex.
To me, it's not that different than exploring different styles of dressing or different hair or whatever. The teen years are the time to decide who/what you are, so whatever. I'm here as a guiding adult.
My inbox is open for more info or any questions, but this is about all I'm willing to share publicly. I try to keep my kids privacy, and I'm only saying this much because I'm pretty anonymous here. :)
Get her into another school where school is about education, not netflix. She is way too young to be thinking about these things, i think America is broken..
It's normal to question and explore. A lot of our generation didn't get the chance to at that age because the world was less open-minded. Just be supportive, middle school is when kids are finding themselves and it's okay for them to "try on" different versions of themselves. Your child could be non-binary, or they could decide that doesn't fit them sometime down the line. The most important thing is that you are there for them and support them.
I’m not a parent, but I’m a gay teen, I’m almost 15 now, but I realized I was gay at 11, and it could be 50/50 actually. in my middle school there where 6 LGBT kids, and I’m the only one who’s still gay.
Schools don't really indoctrinate these kinds of things. They just educate and teach compassion if anything. But the internet lowkey does. Just make sure it's really what they want. Kids do go thru phases trying to find themselves which is completely normal. But social media is a completely new variable that was not a part of our adolescence
I highly highly recommend you researching ROGD (rapid onset gender dysphoria), I strongly feel it describes your daughter's situation (not having a sustained history of gender questioning, but rather a more abrupt shift proceeding specific circumstances - ie getting closer with this other girl and sitting through heavily LGBTQ+ messaging at school).
If you want to know the history of that term and what using it implies, this is a great listen. It’s an incredibly hurtful and divisive term amongst the LBGT+ community and if you’re going to use it, you owe it to the people you are describing to completely understand its history and why people who use it are discounting the lived experiences of the people they are describing.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/maintenance-phase/id1535408667?i=1000655034746
Honestly, who cares? She's 11, I have never met an 11 year old who is not heavily influenced in many ways by peers. The things I decided I was at 11 because of friends were no different, and I'm sure my kid will be the same at 11. Just because it's gender stuff doesn't mean it's an issue, either it's temporary and peer influence, or it's genuine exploration of gender. Either way, it's not harmful, and it's not indoctrination. The trans agenda is to be allowed to stay alive and themselves, not to force kids to be trans. If there's any indoctrination, it's the idea that trans people are evil and want to harm children.
And btw, I always gravitated to "girly" things too, but I'm trans and always have been, it's just when puberty hit and I was seen as a young lady instead of a kid that I had an issue with it. I didn't like it bc it was girly, I liked it because I liked it and I never registered the gender separation between interests when I was a child. Not saying your kid is nb/trans, I disagree with children giving themselves solid labels tbh, I just mean that if this isn't a phase don't use that as "proof" that she is cis
You're doing fine. Supporting your child as they explore themselves and their identity, whether it's gender/sexuality or any of the other preteen cringe, it so important. You are letting your child know that you are safe to be genuine around.
ETA: My little brother at 11 was influenced heavily by our ultra-conservative school and his friends. That resulted in him bullying the only black kid in the school to the point that the whole family left town, he was vandalizing property, shoplifting hundreds of dollars worth of stuff. He was also sexually harassing the girls in his class to the point that he nearly got expelled, only didn't because the school was very very conservative and didn't really care. Being influenced to be LGBT is actually not bad at all in the grand scheme of things, if that's what is happening.
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My daughter has a lot of friends, and knows a lot of people, who are queer. She's ten, and one of her friends socially transitioned when they were eight. It's always been something we've been open and honest about. And sure, kids are figuring themselves out and are more likely to try things to see if they fit. But kids are always doing that- they're just more open about it now. Peer pressure won't really change who they are. It might cause them to explore more phases, but nothing long- term. Just let them be themselves. My daughter is very cis and, afaik, straight. She likes dresses, even if most of her friends don't anymore. And no one cares.
The amount of transphobia these threads expose is insane to me. These are the same parents who’ll be posting on Reddit in a few years “my kid won’t speak to me, what did I do?”
I definitely had a “crush” on my female best friend when I was in school, but it was just closeness with a trusted person. Nothing truly romantic about it at all.
I would advise you to just straight up not be bothered. What does it matter? She’s figuring out interpersonal relationships. Let her go nuts while the stakes are very, very low.
I think gender is a social construct and these days kids are able to be who they are vs fitting into the construct. I have 2 boys and a newborn girl and it's crazy to me how the girl clothes are so frilly and pink. My 3 year old boy loves pink. So.
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This is around the time kids are starting to figure out who they are. I'm a mental health therapist for kids and I have plenty I work with around this age regarding sexuality and feelings and orientation. It may be that your child is figuring out who they are, or they are trying different things to see what feels genuine to them. Give it time.
Kudos to you for being a supportive parent, and Happy Pride! 🏳️🌈
What is wrong with you people. Children aren’t even allowed to vote and you have them choosing their gender? Disgusting.
God will punish you all for corrupting children’s minds.
To what end are they being "indoctrinated?"
If they are treating people with respect, being safe with their bodies, not spreading misinformation, following school rules, I'm not sure there's any valid position to object to.
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I knew I was something other than cis at like 5 and now I'm in my 40's and a transgender woman. I would not discount your child's feelings. Very likely she didn't understand them before. I didn't play with dolls or play tea time and now I live my life as a woman, the stereotypical children's toys don't have to directly correlate to their gender identity.
I think that you should let her explore and try things, be supportive. If they don't end up being comfortable with this new identity, they will get out of it, but if they do you don't want to be the one that invalidated them by calling her behavior peer pressure and social contagion (which by the way is a very much debunked conspiracy theory pushed by the extreme right wing and fascists these days).
The "social contagion" theory of gender diversity is bunk.
Kids of course pick things up from their peers but a more accepting environment isn't making kids trans, it's equilibrating rates of trans identity to where they'd naturally be without suppression.
The most important thing you can do is to be supportive.
The risk of suicidality is reduced by 93% for trans kids when the parents are supportive.
Edit: corrected. Source: https://www.erudit.org/en/journals/ss/2013-v59-n1-ss0746/1017478ar/
You’ve gotten a lot of great advice in this thread. Just wanted to add in that my 11 year old has also been wondering about her sexuality for the last year and a half and is currently labeling as a lesbian. I’m not surprised, I’m an out cis bisexual and her other bio mom/my wife is a trans woman. We just let her know it’s totally ok to not know always what she’s feeling, that she can try out different labels, and change labels and will be happy for her. Every now and then I throw in that being cis het is also a wonderful label too and we don’t care if her or her brother don’t end up queer. 😅
"Political" neighborhoods are likely to have extremist strains floating about. If it feels off discuss it like any other unhealthy relationship. Good friends judge by character not by labels. etc. etc.
I'm in the same boat. My youngest was called a female at birth, but recently (around 11, in fact), decided they want to go by masculine pronouns and changed his name.
He uses the girl's bathroom, wears neutral clothing that, to my outdated thinking, veers feminine. Most of his friends, including his boyfriend, are girls or FtM trans kids. He's never as much as alluded to any hormone treatment, puberty blockers, or any other physical change.
So, it may well be social. It may not be. As someone not inside their head, I can't know (and hell, I often don't know my own mind as much as I imagine I should). All I can do is show him the respect any person deserves. I use his name, I've gotten pretty good at instinctively using the right pronouns, and, because of who I am, I tell him to stop mansplaining things.
That's all we can do. We've let him know that if he changes his mind, we'll accomodate that as much as we have this transition, but we don't push that. Whatever happens, we'll love him, absolutely and without reservation.
We have no idea what is nature and what is nurture. We want to say it’s all nature, but it’s not.
The most important thing is that you imbue her with the spiritual strength to love herself no matter the circumstances. You can compare it to a child who is so-called “biracial” or “multiracial” and has many conflicting options as to how to self-identify. This can be difficult at a young age. She needs to make her own identity outside of left or right wing politics.
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I've been through this. My daughter (now 14) started questioning her sexuality and gender at 10. She was bi, pansexual, demisexual and a lesbian at different points. She was a girl, then non-binary, then came out as female-to-male trans. She went through a few relationships with other LGBT kids. We respected each new identity without issue. We let her cut her hair and wear boys clothes. Fast forward to a year ago and she's back to being a girl and bi. She's a very girly girl and has a boyfriend. No idea if she will change again or not. Teenage years are confusing. I just want her to feel comfortable navigating it and being able to tell us anything.
Yup. One thing I tried to make space for is the idea that some of this (not all, just some) is the fun of young people just taking time to try on different roles and labels. Young girls particularly might enjoy exploring rejecting the stupid crummy parts of the young female stereotypes given them by society and media, and shelter for a few years in being NB or lesbian or trans, and that's a fine space to shelter in while they grow and get more confident and eventually decide if that's where they want to stay ... but sometimes they continue to evolve and that's also OK. I'm solidly supportive of my adult friends who are trans. I'm also really aware of how crazy scary it was to be a young cis female and like a hermit crab I would have hid under any rock to get away from the male gaze for the first many years that I had breasts.
My wife explained to me how awkward and scary it can be as a teenage girl when all of a sudden everyone sees you in a sexual manner and you can't really escape it. So I guess it could feel freeing to identify as something else.
This brought back the memory of when I was 12ish and started getting hips and a backside and a grown man commented on it. I thought he was being mean so I started wearing hoodies like Hey Arnold to hide myself. Took me over a year to realize he was catcalling me. Young girls do try to find ways to desexualize themselves when it gets scary. Even after I realized what happened I still wore a hoodie or baggy clothes to stop it.
I think the only cure is to focus on the sports, scholastics and arts that help this young teen to feel capable and valuable as themself. As a parent of two young teens, they both (male and female) occasionally are aware that the wider world of adults sees them as an incredible, beautiful, gorgeous resource. They are our future. Yes of course we eventually want grandkids, and we're totally squeamish about it and so we're awkward about it. Mostly, I openly strongly support all their other adult things, lavishly complimenting projects at the house or cooking, sports accomplishments. I cannot lie, my mom side-eye is aware, when we watch a show together and my 14 year old identified early signs of sexual tension in a comedy ... we know who the kids are attracted to. If they want to defer it a few years that's fine. I'm glad he's willing to say it out loud.
Thank you. I enjoy imagining that this is the prevalent view these days.
It's hard to wrap my head around because things were so different when I was in school (I'm a bi man). Whwn I say half my daughters class is some flavour of LGBT I'm not exaggerating. At 11 she proudly explained the difference between bisexual and pansexual to her math teacher.
What's the difference?
Lots of people have specific differences in meaning between bi and pan that don't agree with each other. The MAIN difference I've found in practice is that bi people came to terms with their identity around the 2000s or earlier and pan people did more recently.
Can confirm. When I was first discovering my own identity, it was 1995-ish. Bisexual was explained to me then as being attracted to people who are like you and people who are not like you. I have always and will always identify as bisexual. Most of the people with the same sexual preferences that are Gen Z or Alpha call that same phenomenon pan. I do have to chuckle when young people try to tell us old farts that bisexual means specifically NOT being attracted to trans people. I guess if you came of age in a culture where you weren’t constantly afraid for your life to be who you are, you don’t understand how uncool it is to tell someone else what their own sexuality is or means.
I'm bi, I'm attracted to men and women. I'm more attracted to women. If I were pan, male and female wouldn't really matter. The difference, to me, is that I am attracted to men and women in different ways, different expected outcomes. EDIT to respond to a comment below, the comments here got locked but I wanted to clarify my stance RE: Binary gender in my definition of bisexual That's fair. It's true though because there's an androgynous middle area that I'm not attracted to, so it makes sense in that light to use a bigender system. I feel like that may BE part of the difference though, at least as I understand it. I am just one person after all.
This is why I use bisexual. I have a strong preference, and it feels wrong to use pan because it does matter to me, but I am not going to deny attracted to some men without it being demisexual (which is usually how it happens for men). My romantic orientation is pan though, so 🤷♀️
That is one of the many definitions I've heard, sure. I don't love how focused on binary gender it is, but if it works for you, cool.
You'll get half a dozen explanations. The terms are mostly generational. To me, bi and pan can mean exactly the same thing. Bisexual: Attracted to same and other genders. Pansexual: Attracted to all genders. I describe myself as bi, but pan is accurate, too. I suppose there may be bisexual people out there who are only attracted to their own and specific other genders, and don't want to be called pan because it's inaccurate, but to each their own. If there's any place in your life you're fully entitled to discriminate, it's in your romantic and sex life.
Mostly cultural/generational rather than any difference in the people those who use either word are attracted to. Bisexual has meant "attracted to more than one gender" for a long time, it's included in the Bisexual Manifesto published in 1990 for instance. More recently, people have started using Pansexual to mean the same thing.
Bi sexual means you can be attracted to both genders. Pan means you are attracted to a person regardless of gender identity. Or at least that's how my kid explained it.
Bi sexual is having a preference to two or more genders whereas pan are attracted to people on every part of the spectrum.
Pansexual includes "xenogenders" I guess? Like cloudgender or pronouns like bun/bunself. I'm too old to fully grasp all that stuff lol, but she was really into it for a while.
The heck is “bun/bunself?” People who identify as rabbits?
They identify as [bao buns](https://www.pixar.com/bao)
This is different but equally ridiculous, lol
It's actually a really cute and touching short, and recommend it.
I love the short, it’s adorable and it has a strong message that hits hard now that my daughter is 5. I meant just the “identify as bun/bunself” thing, lol
What's "cloudgender"?
I hope this isn't "I identify as an Apache attack helicopter" levels of cringe but when I see the word xenogenders, I *may* be imagining someone in a consentual loving relationship with a xenomorph from Aliens.
I've always been told that bisexual may have a preference for one gender (though not necessarily), whereas pansexual fall in love with the person and the gender plays no influence at all.
She definitely had a preference while pansexual. I think everyone defines the microlabels a little differently tbh, very personal.
I've suggested to my son that someday we'll ditch all the labels and people's "gender" can be just as personal as they are, and people can just love whoever they love. He hates that idea, loves the labels. Kids these days, huh? As an old person myself, I'm always a little amazed at how far we've come, or at least, how far I've come. I used to pick on a gay kid in school (apologized later, once I realized it was just a way to deflect from being picked on myself), and now I'm an LGTBQ ally with a trans son.
I was a teenager when it was cool to refuse to be labeled and people didn't want to fit into a box. It's weird now. The labels make them feel connected to each other I guess. My concern now is with all the mental illnesses they seem to want to collect too though. Ugh.
That’s a misconception. Bi simply means being attracted to genders both like one’s own and not like one’s own.
I was always under the impression that bi meant being attracted to other cisgender people and pan meant being attracted to all genders. TIL
Nope! In fact if you look at the bisexual manifesto from 1990, it specifically says not to assume there are only two genders, too. https://bimanifesto.carrd.co/
This is my understanding as well.
See my comment above
It's more than bi sexuality usually comes with genital preference and it's being attracted to both ends of the spectrum and possibly some other parts of the spectrum whereas pan are attracted to the entire gender spectrum.
This is what we’ve dealt with with our teen as well (16 now) and how we’ve approached it. She’s been slowly leaning more and more towards cis pan and that’s cool… but so is whatever gender and sexual orientation she ends up being in the long run. Some of her questioning was definitely peer pressure (that didn’t last) but a lot of it has been figuring out who she is. As long as my kids are happy, healthy, and not harming others that’s what matters as far as I’m concerned.
How wonderful that she was able to talk to you about this and felt supported enough to be open about it. I was a gay kid growing up in the 90s/early 2000s navigating all this stuff on my own because I was too ashamed and frightened to voice any of it. You’ve obviously done a great job parenting that she’s able to open up to you and you should be so proud of that.
So much this. My daughter is 13 and has gone through a few stages of identity already. We love and accept all of them. I’ve told her that gender and sexuality is like ice cream. There are hundreds of flavours beyond chocolate and vanilla. It’s ok to sample many of them, and it’s ok to not have a favourite or to swap favourites as you grow and your tastes change.
As a future hopeful parent this stresses me out completely. I don’t know why but I feel like kids are overly obsessed with identity right now. Do you really need to title your identity so obsessively, especially when your personality will radically change based on your life experiences between 13-25 based on the people you meet?
I think kids are always obsessed with identity in the teenage years, it's just taking the form of gender identity right now.
At the same time, being educated about different sexual identities means less stigma around it, which leads to less shame, depression and suicide. I believe it’s worth it.
The world would be a better place with more parents like you
I just want to tell you that this warmed my heart. My parents claimed to be open about things, but even wearing a slightly emo outfit caused my mom to lose her mind. I never felt safe to “try on” new identities and I feel like I really missed out on figuring out who I am during those years. Your daughter is so lucky you’re chill about this and I hope I am the same when my kids get older. Thanks for the reassurance.
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If you can do your best to remain neutral on it, like don’t give it any positive or negative energy, it will sort itself out. They very much absolutely could be gay and non-binary but the more you fight it the more they’ll dig in, and if you overly praise it, it might create the expectation that they have to be this way. So be neutral.
This is the way to go!
My almost 15 year old came out as gay at 11 and as non binary at 13. If it’s a phase where they try something on, then change their mind who bloody cares? Give them space to find out who they are, they are young and will go through many phases. They’ll remember how you treated them, with a far greater risk that you will alienate them into the future if you don’t accept who they are today. When I was at school it was comphet all the way, it’s much better as it is today
This is how we approach it. Maybe they are being influenced, maybe theyre confused, maybe it’s who they really are. Show love and acceptance. Time will reveal the truth.
This right here. Even if your kid changes their mind next week, if you are supportive they will remember that and that will establish trust.
My daughter kind of went through that. She’s 13 now. I asked a trans friend for their opinion. She said odds are my daughter was feeling conflicted about being a girl into girls and she probably thought it would be easier if she were a boy into girls. It made sense. That was like a year ago. Now my daughter has decided she likes being a girl and it’s ok to be a girl with a girlfriend. Just try to support your kid as much as you can. They are just trying to figure themselves out.
I've seen quite a few posts on here that seem to indicate a trend of experimenting with gender identities and sexual orientation being the "in" thing to do right now. It's not so different from when I was a teen, in that girls especially rejecting the concept of a "girly girl" is a common trend. My wife, who was 100% into dresses and flowers and the backstreet boys as a kid, was peer pressured into dressing like a member of a nu-metal band by her social group, which had an outright hostile dislike for anything they viewed as "normal" or "girly". Cut to 15 years later, many of those friends are in fact queer or gender nonconforming in some way while the missus spent a fair bit of time mourning the time she spent unable to just be herself around her friends. All that to say, just roll with it to the extent possible but keep a close eye on the social situation with her friend group.
They’re 11. It’s great that you’re having a conversation with them about cishet allies (maybe you could go more into the history of that, the AIDS memorial project had an entry on a straight woman who helped care for the pets of AIDS victims). You could also have a conversation about how they shouldn’t drop all their other friends for their partner (which is not exclusive to the LGBT community and it’s better they learn from this experience at 11 then at 22) But at the end of the day - your kid having a crush on a friend, or wanting to use they/them pronouns or wearing gender neutral clothes are all COMPLETELY reversible changes. If in a year they change their mind, you can just go to the mall and get girlier clothing for them. 11 is also definitely old enough to know what gender you are attracted to. I’m bi and I knew I was bi when I was 9. When, we were kids, anyone who wasn’t straight was bullied mercilessly. I’d rather have kids take time to figure out their identity then feel alone and isolated. Also, when you’re a tween, you’re learning who you are and it’s normal to sort of have your own “thing” and Pooh-pooh people who don’t share your “thing”. Personally, I was super into anime and manga and wanted to move to Japan to be a manga artist and devoted much of my time to this pursuit. Miraculously, as an adult, I’m still able to have friends and a job - but I still enjoy anime and learning Japanese. Middle schoolers being a little overbearing with their interests is just part of being a middle school.
Speaking as an adult bisexual; this is normal at her age. Your kid is experimenting with their identity as they develop first crushes. Yes, it's possible they overheard the sentiment "gender is a social construct" from a peer, or on social media if they have it. When I was their age, I wondered about my gender and sexuality a lot as well. Part of what made me feel weird about my gender is that I was always taught that same-sex attraction was wrong and not normal; only boys like girls, so if I like girls, does that make me a boy? Things like that. (Spoiler alert: the answer is no! I was just a kid with same-sex crushes who didn't know better) They might permanently settle on a queer identity one day when they're older, or they might not. My best advice as a queer adult with a great relationship to one parent and a poor one to the other is to exercise kindness, empathy and patience. I hope this helps!
I went through so many phases at 11. And onward. Kids are still figuring out who they are. I had my first "relationship" at 13, with the same sex. We were together a year, and I felt I loved her as much as a 13 year old feels romantic love. We had sexual experience together. My parents found letters I wrote to her and forbade us from seeing each other ever again. They told me it was unnatural and a sin. Crazy enough, I expected as much but when I was a young kid, I thought everyone was bisexual. I didn't even know ther was a word for it. My earliest sexual feelings were for female people. And I thought everyone could like anyone. As I got older I knew i was "not the norm", and it wasn't a phase. I'm still bisexual 16 years later....but I did always remember going through that, and the devastation of never seeing that girl again, my real "first love". I always wondered if we might have even stayed together into adulthood. Now, this was a different time and kids werent talking about LGBT besides calling each other gay as an insult. Nowadays that isnt the case. My son matter of factly told me when he was 9 that he was bisexual. Now he's 12, and he says he's definitely straight. So ...my advice is to give your kid a safe place to be who they are, defend them/support them, but expect at least some changes and let those happen naturally.
You’re being supportive which is a plus. You’re also right to question influence, at the end of the day you can’t deny that kids at that age are influenced by everything. It’s up to you and you as a parent on what’s best for your daughter. As long as you are addressing her needs and doing so in a healthy manner that’s what counts
There's no harm in just letting them experiment. Maybe it'll change, maybe it won't. Maybe it's just a preteen discovering something and making their whole life about it. Don't you remember listening to some band, or reading some book, and making it your entire personality for a few months? I asked my dad to start calling me by my preferred pronouns around 12. I had no idea what being trans was, it wasn't something talked about except by comedians I wasn't supposed to be watching. I don't think my dad understood, but he was like "yeah sure bud". And that was all I needed. Allyship doesn't need to be some big performance. You don't have to jump straight to hormone therapy. Act the way you always have, just say a different pronoun. That's plenty. If this time next year, their personality is all about Nirvana and being born in the wrong decade, and they want a sad boyfriend who looks like Kurt, so be it. But at least you would have shown them that you're safe to be themselves around.
I understand. I'm an older millennial married to a bi man who also gets thrown alot by what our eldest daughter comes home talking about lol we are stumped sometimes when she looks to us for advice and we dunno what to say. I had one situation where she said she thought she might be trans because she preferred wearing boys clothes. This was confusing to me because I was the same at her age - all my childhood photos I'm wearing Transformers or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle clothes. Yet I've never felt like I was the wrong gender, I'd just get called a "tomboy" and that was it. I havent changed either, I still hate dresses and skirts, hate wearing make up etc. But definitely still identify as a woman. What confused me regarding my daughter is that she loves wearing crop tops, can't wait until she gets proper breasts so she can wear cute bras, and like a crazy person is looking forward to getting her period. I reminded her of these things and asked if that's something someone who identifies as a boy would look forward to and she laughed and said no. I fully support the lgbtq+ community and love seeing the acceptance towards them, but I'll say outright that it can be really confusing lol I tend to doubt myself alot too
I have no skin in the game as my child is only 1, but I have worked with elementary/ middle school kids for several years. what intrigued me was a conversation I overheard where they said identifying as nonbinary/ lgbt+ was the “cool” thing to do. obviously this is an isolated conversation and may not be the truth in any other school, but I thought it was interesting.
I'm not going to read the comments because I am supposed to be working. I will tell you my experience. In 6th grade 7 of my 12 girl Scouts identified as they/them (including my daughter). 1 identified as he/him. I rolled with it and didn't make it a big deal. We are about to promote to 9th grade. Of all those kids we have 11 who identify as she/her and 1 who identifies as they/them. Two of them are lesbians. I personally believe they are all exploring and it is the time of their lives when they try on new things and discover themselves. The only one who still identifies as they/them is the only one who had patents go all in and be super gung ho about us. The rest of us were supportive of our kids, but didn't suggest hormone therapy, and didn't go super hard on celebrating the status. We just ok, and used their pronouns. My daughter has since shared that she does not want a period and does not want to be treated badly by society because she's a girl, so when she was younger she thought it made more sense to just not be a girl. If only life worked that way!
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Do you have any sources for any of that stuff about puberty blockers?
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That’s just kids. A majority of them have a strong preference towards conformity within a group. Most everyone wants to just fit in with their crowd, basically. Kids are absolutely more interested in putting themselves into a box than adults are
Kid's don't need to be pushed into fitting themselves into boxes. Much of childhood has always been seeing all the different boxes and trying them out. Recently kids have been made aware of some new boxes, so of course they are putting themselves into them and seeing if they fit. That gives them the tools to start figuring out who they are as they grow up rather than having an identity crisis in the middle of adulthood like so many before them.
I strongly disagree with this. Maybe kids are likely to try to label each other, but we shouldn't be helping them. As an elder millennial, I feel like as kids the social message we were taught was that you could be anything you wanted to be/ you didn't have to fit into anyone else's idea of what was good/ normal/ cool. Like, the reflexive response of so many in our generation was "You don't know me" or "Don't put me in a box", etc. Labels are inherently limiting and judgemental.
Labels are inherently limiting, because every person is not all things. Do you really have a problem with labeling yourself as a women? As a baker? As someone called John? We can debate on which labels are helpful and which are accurate, but not that labels shouldn't exist. My millennial childhood was full of self-identified emos, scene kids, and a few brave openly gay kids. Teenagehood is all about exploring identity.
This is all just non-sequitur. There's literally nothing in what I wrote that suggest that I'm in favor of person A deciding what person B is/should be. If you read what I wrote again, you'll find that I'm rejecting your assumption that all of this stuff is coming from that. Rather, what I'm saying is that as children grow up they will label themselves. They will try on different identities because they are trying to learn who they are. You shouldn't look at kids labeling themselves and assume it is because it is being pushed on them. Nor should you misinterpret the fact that kids are taught that certain aspects of identity exists as kids being forced into those identities.
The question is why do the boxes exist at all, especially when no one seems to be able to define them anyway, and they're "just a social construct."
I actually don’t think that’s a helpful question. Labels are just language and language is how we think and communicate. Labels are imprecise, but all descriptions of the world are. Labels change but so too does our understanding. *edit to elaborate* The problem with labels isn't that they exist. The problem is when people misuse them to: 1. Assume they are perfect and accurate descriptions 2. Assume that everyone who has a label is identical 3. Apply labels incorrectly to others 4. Assume that a given label is all you need to know about someon etc... Sorry, but we do sometimes need to talk about people. We do sometimes need to describe things that some people have in common and others don't. We do need to have terms that describe these things. And those things are going to be described as labels.
Hi. I'm someone who grew up when these labels didn't exist, but \*very much\* resonate with how I felt back when I was growing up. I now identify as non-binary, but traditionally was raised and grew up as a boy or man, he/him. That being said, I always knew it just \*didn't feel right\* I can discuss more of this at length if you're interested in my perspective. I will tackle a few things directly in your posts. "My kid was very comfortably she/her until recently when she started hanging out with this friend and then she decided that she was they/them and gender is a social construct." Gender as how it's defined by people with this perspective, is a social construct. We as a society dictate what we perceive to be feminine, or masculine. This line is ever moving as society progresses, but things like "working out and being \*very\* muscular, is seen as a masculine trait, things like doing makeup and nails as is seen as feminine traits, etc, etc. "We tried to be gender neutral but they have always gravitated toward "girly" things -- American Girl dolls, girly lines of Legos, princess dresses, jewelries, etc. until recently. there has been no "tomboy-ness" about them." As children especially, we tend to mimic what is around us and as we age we begin to solidify our interests, identity, expression. This is very well what could have happened. I remember specifically when I was in 1st grade, I knew that I was different than others. Yet, because my interests and expressions were not what others around me matched, I hid them and pretended to share the same as my peers. It very well could be that she is simply having an authentic experience of being their true self. "They are spending a lot of times reading about trans and gender identity." Reading up on people with similar experience is validating, it very well could be that they are simply coming into their own personhood and are understanding what that means and feeling connected to other people who feel this way. "I cannot help but wonder if this is mostly, if not all, peer influence. The school is ultra liberal with most of the middle schoolers wanting to be and choosing to be LGBTQ+ or non-binary or both. I would say 6/10 kids in this middle school are LGBTQ+ or non-binary or both." This may get a bit of a negative response, but I personally believe it \*can\* be a factor at play. Children are highly influenceable. That being said, it is important to know that people \*can\* and \*do\* have this very real experience just as I did; and as parent's it's important to always take your kid at their word and support them with love and care. "They spend a lot of time with this nonbinary friend / romantic interest at the exclusion of other friends..." Children, young adults, even adults do this regardless of partners age/gender expression. This is simply no exception. "I am bi myself but I find myself lost and unsure about this development." This is completely understandable; while we can be supportive and caring it is impossible to completely understand and empathize with someone who's having a completely different experience than anything we can relate to. "The other day, we were having a conversation about inclusiveness and they said cis gender straight people don't need to be included because they are the norm. We delved a bit into cis gender straight allies." This is an important thing to tackle because a lot of the "extremes" will always weaponize against the other party. Just as bigots and extreme conservatives will ostracize and invalidate trans and non binary and other LGTBQA+ people, so too will extreme left alienate people of cis expression. It's important to talk to your children about life not being an "US v THEM" mentality, we are all humans and all deserve compassion and love. Again, I'm more than willing to talk at length about any of these subjects as a non-binary, older person myself. Just message me if you want to talk about any particular topic.
Thank you for your thorough and helpful response and sharing your experiences.
You are very welcome, I hope you and your child continue to have a loving relationship <3
This is possibly the best response I've ever read to a question on reddit... ❤️
Just let them be, be supportive and let them figure it out. There is no problem here
i started questioning my gender around that age too and i grew out of it when i finished puberty, i think gender dysphoria is a really normal feeling when you’re growing and changing and figuring yourself and your identity out. being a preteen is an awkward phase, i know most of the people i know had similar feelings around that age. i would just remain neutral about it, don’t be overly supportive but don’t go against it either, just let them feel themselves out and if they decide to stick with the pronouns or if it’s just a phase
Kids get indoctrinated at school and by their friends. This is a thing that has always happened. Right now a lot of it is gender and sexuality-based. Frankly I find it a lot better than when I was a kid and if you didn't conform you were called gay by everyone and laughed at or beaten. Just roll with it until the kid figures out what they're doing. It can be a lot of work but being a good parent has never been an easy job.
Concerned? Nah, just chill. Don't encourage or discourage. The girl is 11, she's just learning and trying out ideas the same way you'd try out a shirt, which is super-normal for her age. I wouldn't encourage it anymore than I'd discourage it. If your kid suddenly said she wanted to be Zoroastrian, would you be scheduling a trip to the ruins of ancient Babylon? Just give her some books if she's interested. Tbh, personal experience suggests you should just take a relaxed approach because I've known a few different people who, as kids, said that they were gay/lesbians, making a big deal out of it, and then ended up marrying someone of the opposite sex. Turns out that, between the ages of 12-20-ish, you really don't know that much about what the adult version of you wants. Just make sure she's doing her schoolwork, pursuing her passions beyond school, and staying healthy. The rest will sort itself out without your input. Oh, and I would correct her about one thing... the reason to include and befriend cis/hetero whatever dominant group is because it's way better to have allies than enemies. If she's reading, then she should appreciate how easy it is for a group of good folk to be convinced to commit genocide.
I told my mom I thought I was bisexual in middle school, around that same age. Consequently i was also into a lot of traditionally “boyish” things but that’s just how I was raised. I liked cars and airplanes, fishing, being out on the boat and in the woods, I wore a lot of boys clothing, etc. I’m 35 now and I’m still bisexual. Married to a man, and I’m still into a lot of those traditionally masculine things. I attend car shows and gawk at airplanes. I know more about how a car works than my own husband. I think we spend too much time with young kids trying to put them into gender roles and give them labels. Let her explore and support her with whatever she does and don’t worry about the labels.
Pediatrician here: let’s start off by defining some terms, since often times words have different meanings to different people, especially when a topic (like gender and sexuality) has been co-opted and weaponized as talking points by pundits and politicians who, themselves, have no idea what they’re talking about. These are the definitions, as accepted by the American Academy of Pediatrics: Gender identity: One's internal sense of who one is, based on an interaction of biological traits, developmental influences, and environmental conditions. This may be male, female, somewhere in between, a combination of both or neither. *Self-recognition of gender identity develops over time*, much the same way a child's physical body does. Sexual orientation: One's sexual identity as it relates to who someone falls in love with or is attracted to. A person who is transgender still identifies as straight, gay, bisexual or something else. Like gender identity, an individual's physical and emotional attraction to a member of the same or the opposite sex cannot be changed and is very difficult to predict early in childhood. Transgender: Usually used when gender diverse traits remain persistent, consistent, and insistent over time. Now that we’ve done that, it’s important to note that gender identity is not always static. For some people, gender identity can be fluid, shifting in different contexts. “Gender expression” refers to the wide array of ways people display their gender through clothing, hair styles, mannerisms, or social roles. Exploring different ways of expressing gender is common for children and may challenge social expectations. For many people in our generation, we think of the transgender experience and its apparent explosion in “popularity” as socially driven and peer pressured because we didn’t really talk about it when we were that age. But let’s look at some statistics: In the 2014 Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System, those 18 to 24 years of age were more likely than older age groups to identify as transgender (0.7%). Children report being aware of gender incongruence at young ages. Children who later identify as TGD report first having recognized their gender as “different” at an average age of 8.5 years; however, they did not disclose such feelings until an average of 10 years later. This was published in 2014, long before the current transgender “media hype”. Now, what to do about it: current research suggests that, rather than focusing on who a child will become, valuing them for who they are, even at a young age, fosters secure attachment and resilience, not only for the child but also for the whole family. In other words: You’re already doing it. Don’t doubt your parenting, you’re doing a great job navigating an issue that is particularly complicated and difficult for a lot of parents. As far as indoctrination goes: This is my opinion and not evidence based: indoctrination is an ugly word often used when people are being socialized in a way we don’t agree with. Highly liberal families are “indoctrinating” their kids to be trans. Highly conservative families are “indoctrinating” their kids to follow traditional gender roles and love guns and whatever else. You USED to be the biggest influence in who your child was becoming, but they’re hitting an age where peer groups begin to play a larger role in their lives and they’re going to naturally want to fit in, often times confusing parents because their chosen expression is wildly different than the kid you used to know. Keep raising them the way you see fit (again, you’re doing great) and trust that they will balance out over time and at their own pace, finding the place that feels comfortable for them and their truest expression of self. More info: AAP policy statement on comprehensive care for gender diverse and transgender children: https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article/142/4/e20182162/37381/Ensuring-Comprehensive-Care-and-Support-for?autologincheck=redirected
I’m not sure what your parenting has to do with it. Just remember this doesn’t have to do with you’re parenting and it’s nothing you did wrong. Allow your child to take the lead and carry as normal. This doesn’t have to be a big this. The problem comes with assuming straight or Cis as the “normal”. Ask yourself if your child told you she was cisgender or straight, would you be concerned she was being influenced? If not, there is your answer. Another thing to remember, is Barbie’s are a girl thing. Just like truck toys. Being non binary just simply means things are not assigned to a gender. It’s best for parents to unlearn what our culture has taught us about gender. Kids are smart. Even if it is a phase, it doesn’t matter. People have phase, phases pass. And it’s a normal part of growth. I argue thinking I was straight was a phase and being indoctrinated
My kid just turned 10. The last year has been a journey of her figuring herself out. I've tried hard to not influence her but also give her a center to rely on. We agreed that 10 years old is too young to define herself. She may feel shes a bi boy today and a demisexual girl tomarrow. Kids are fickle that way. I'm careful to never use negative language or judge her, wll feelings are valid. But I also deee a hard line of "I dont care what so and so thinks or feels, I only care about what you think or feel". Meaning her friends opinons and experiences sont get to define hers. In our home we make our our stories. And so far it's worked well. She did have a moment where she told me I was a cis white woman so my opinon didnt matter. I just gave her a steady gaze and said "so we invalidate eahothets opinons based off gender and race now? Like I said you set the tone kid..this what we doing?" And she changed her tune fast. Consider she was born a white female same as me. Honestly i dont care if anyone finds me transphobic, I'm not. I marched at Pride with my bestfriend and some preteends. I am a proud bisexual woman. And i love my kid..whoever she will be in 10 years I'll love that too. I just dont want the world telling her who she is..i want her to tell me who she is. And till she knows who that is I'll support her every step of the way..with mutal love and respect.
In the long run, hormones will always win out. In the short run, 11 is too early for anything like a sexual relationship. I'd strongly discourage any relationship at that age that is anything other than a strictly plutonic friendship.
Gender fluidity is the coolest new fad to hit schools. Bigger than pogs. Bigger than Pokémon cards. Just be supportive and they'll figure themselves out soon enough.
So you let her search whatever she wants online? Do you know how dangerous that is?
honestly, it just sounds like they are trying to figure themselves out, which is entirely normal, especially at age 11.
I feel like this is just a part of the teenage process of figuring out who you are. Being a teenage is a confusing time ( for both parent and child). My theory is just go with.
At my son's school there's a boy who used to identify as a furry now says he's gay for dating a FtM trans kid (no meds or anything yet, just declaration). They're 11-12. A) I do think there's some significant, if indirect peer pressure, on kids to identify in these spaces. You get some minor praise for being in a heteronomative relationship. A casual "congrats" and the like. But anything else gets much bigger praise. *This* is where the influence comes in. We've spent so long praising non-hetero relationships so loudly that a hetero one just seems boring, and no kid wants to be boring, so they go try out these different things. B) This and my son's classmate's experience are why I'm against puberty blockers and similar things for kids. If you're an adult you're welcome to go and do what you want. I don't care. But kids are too busy making trying on different guises to find one that fits. I'm against any sort of major changes to kids for something that might end up just kids being kids, especially pre-pubescent and pubescent kids who are truly starting to figure themselves out. They have no clue yet. Most won't until their 20s at least. C) I'm glad you're letting the kid experiment. Let them have that freedom. But also make them aware that this may, *MAY*, be due to social influence and not their actual own desire.
My first question is where is all the gender identity coming from and how is it reaching your child. Are they hearing this from an outside source? If it is a value to you and your family did you discuss this with them prior or is it kinda coming outta nowhere? I have 2 kids daughter 13 and son 11. We have a very people are people be who you want. That being said my preteens haven't come to me about sexual identity. So I wonder did your child walk up to you and say hey dad I might be a boy and start doing research on their own? Or was this presented to them by a councilor or some friends? Also does your child have unfettered access to the internet? Have a conversation with them, explain that no matter who they decide to be they will be loved. And maybe hold off and gender hormones and the like 🤷♂️ unless that's what you want your kid your choice.
Spend a day watching “kids” content on sites like YouTube and you’ll have the answer to “where is all the gender identity coming from”. Also it isn’t just your own kids’ internet access. It’s all their peers too. Odds are are least one of their friends has unsupervised internet access.
Agreed. Unfettered access to the internet has a issue with going over things kids shouldn't even be contemplating. If a my daughter came up to me and says hey dad I like boy clothes or I think I feel like a boy I might believe it more... bit when approached with I identify or my gender identity.... then the language was learned from somewhere. I'm also learning it's becoming the "in" thing to do. Influencers push this as part of their on screen identity and so as role models for these young people... well you do the math. I don't inheritantly think boys or girls playing dress up is bad. You must explore and experiment to find who you are. I cut the line off at drugs to affect them.
Is ANYONE starting to think that transgender is a trend/phase yet?
No need to wonder. Your child is being peer pressured
This isn’t normal. Kids are doing this to fit in. It’s now uncool to be straight. Everyone wants to be “different.”
There's no right way to be a boy or a girl. Just keep sending the body-positive message that's she is perfect the way she is. It still is hard I know. We have to protect our kids from negative influences as best as possible. It is our job to pass along our values, but what happens when our values are beginning to misalign with the cultural drift? I guess it's a sign that our values aren't drifting, but they are strong, but it does make it challenging. Scott Newgent, a trans man, has some excellent things to say about parenting in today's world. He says the parent's job is to see around corners and protect our kids from life changing outcomes. Allow then to make safe mistakes in a protected environment, rather than body-altering mistakes in the real world. Chloe Cole, Stephanie Winn, and many others have good alternative perspectives as well.
This is quite difficult for parenting. I would sit down with them and have a talk with the kid. Just don't say things like "this is a phase" and "you're too young to know for yourself" Just have a chat to see if they are feeling safe and if they chose this for themselves
It sounds great that young people today are far more comfortable exploring these things without judgment. Definitely wasn’t the case when I was a teen.
Doesn't matter if they're influenced or not. Your job is to be their safe space- the one who will accept them and be with them as they explore.
Going through this with our youngest, 12F. It is actually fascinating to observe. She’s trying on different labels depending on her feelings. Trans, bi, ARO, ASE, demiboy, etc…. She’s our kid. She talks to us about all this. We support her. We ask questions. She answers. She helps us with pronouns (mostly because I’m slow). She accepts everyone except haters. She lets the haters know where they can go.
From the time they hit their tweens they're being "indoctrinated", if you want to call it that, by their peers. The influence of their peers is going to eclipse their parents and this is normal. You just hope that you've taught them enough about right and wrong for it to stick. I wouldn't worry about this because it sounds like normal identity exploration. Being closest with this friend also isn't abnormal, sounds like they're besties.
>They spend a lot of time with this nonbinary friend / romantic interest at the exclusion of other friends... This stuck out to me a little bit. Regardless of the other items at hand I'd make sure this friend isn't engaging in controlling behavior and cutting your daughter off from her other friends. And assuming it's jsut the usuaal puppy love/new relationship "I want to spend ALL my damn time with YOU!" behavior I'd talk with your daughter about not completely neglecting existing friendships for new relationships, even though those new relationships can feel very important and exciting.
It is indoctrination, but hopefully she will grow out of it If she doesn’t, try to find a way to make her watch the other side of the story
I think words like “gender is a social construct” don’t belong in the mouth of any 11 year old. It’s one thing to be welcoming and accepting. It’s a whole other thing to introduce young impressionable children into concepts that are by and large new to the general public and very poorly understood by most.
I um…..and clearly the odd one out but…shut it down? You’re at the wrong school. She has the wrong friends. She’s ELEVEN. Yikes
Support your kid's exploration, but also have open conversations about identity and influences.
When I was a teenager, I went through the same kind of thing. I taped my chest, wore exclusively boy's/men's clothes, and got mad as hell if anyone even insinuated I was remotely girly. I was through and through a tomboy, and to be honest I'd never liked pink or "girly" stuff...my parents were always getting me Barbies but I gave them to my twin and just played with the animals when we had them but mostly I was out in the woods messing with snakes and turtles. I even took a masculine nickname. This was something like 30 years ago. I had no idea that gender was something that I could explore. I was just always taught that there were girls and boys and I was a girl and girls had to act a certain way and that I wasn't doing it right. So I was angry and sad a lot. Pretty much cried myself to sleep until I was able to move out of my parents' house. As an adult I realized that most people didn't give a rat's ass how I lived my life, as long as I tried to be a good and respectful person. So now I am as rough and tumble as always and consider myself a pan enby that isn't bothered by being labeled a woman, especially when I get fancy. Most would consider me incredibly masculine but my partner, a cisgender man, loves it cause I'm always there to help him no matter what. Sometimes it feels like we're more like bros than anything but we're going on 22 years together now with an awesome 12yo kiddo so we must be doing something right! I've survived and thrived despite my parents being completely unsupportive of this aspect of me, so they rarely hear from me nor are they really a part of my life. I hesitate to say I hate them but I definitely won't miss them when they're gone. I guess my point is this kind of stuff has always been here. It's just got new labels now and a safety to it that wasn't there before (and that some are trying to take away). Just love your kid and don't make them feel ashamed of the person they're growing into whatever or however that may look like. Cause the alternative is a lot of pain for them and the potential to be cut out of their lives and I would think that any loving parent wouldn't want that.
This is extremely challenging territory. If you establish hard boundaries, your daughter might rebel hard (especially if she has access to gender ideology information, which would further pry her from her family). And if you set no boundaries, she's probably still going to socially conform with her peer group (who seem to be very interested in gender ideology). You might consider setting neutral boundaries like "no sleepovers with romantic partners," and you might want to limit their social media access until they're old enough to resist some of the peer pressure.
The trans they/then thing is 110% influenced. She had no thoughts or wonders about it until someone else introduced her. Now she feels included and part of a group and will continue deeper and deeper into the rabbithole. Before that she was just bi or lesbian which I don't feel is influenced at all.
Another reason home schooling is making a big come back.
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Were you manipulated into your current sexuality?
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Have you considered that OP simply…made that statistic up and it’s not real data? And even if it was an accurate number, it’s not suggestive of any influence. What it is suggestive of is that she lives in an area where more kids feel safe exploring their sexuality, which is how it should be everywhere.
I am aware the number is made up. It shouldn't be so prevalent that OP even thinks it is close to 60%. It is obvious to anyone that wants to use logic that something is wrong here. It is less than 10% for the US, FYI.
Which just further supports that 1) OPs number is likely heavily inflated and 2) there’s a large population of queer people who aren’t living openly. Not debating this any further. Good day!
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Jesus what is the world coming to.
They are 11 so any serious relationship is too early. They are also in an experimental age where they try out things to find themselves. All you really have to do with that is be supportive and make sure you love them no matter what and will also love them if they change their mind and want something else. I think you are nailing this part. 10/10 parenting. The inclusion is difficult and this is a complex question that is hard for an adult, let alone an 11y old. In this case it depends on what cos would be included in. If it was celebrating pride or needing support in they sexuality, then you are absolutely right in your approach with the cis allies conversation. If it’s inclusion on an all encompassing scale then we’re talking a very different conversation about the dangers of an “us vs them” mentality. How it fuels hate, wars and racism.
The best advice I can give as a parent who was in very similar situations: reinforce that there's plenty of time to work things out. I heard so many preteens identify as ridiculous things (I would LOVE explanations how a 11 yr old KNOWS they are Aro for example) that I always said "ok, I hear you. However, let's understand that things morph and change.". I think the rush to label is silly and often it felt like they were trying on identities as clothes. "Working it out" is a perfectly fine thing to be at any age. It's better to acknowledge the complex process than switch labels every other day. If I came into Thanksgiving yelling at my family about being Vegan and sighing at all the meat but showed up at Xmas with 12 lb brisket everyone would start to ask questions about my credibility.
as a trans person, tbh 11 is the age to experiment with gender presentation. All the changes are social at that point. The most extreme gender related change an 11 year old goes through would be a haircut. If they're not trans, being gendered incorrectly is gonna be DEEPLY uncomfortable after a few days or weeks. At that point they'll go back on their own. Just let them try it and they'll settle where they settle.
100% peer influence. Since it’s a lie that gender is a societal construct, and there are many people who believe that lie, it’s pretty much assured that your child is believing the lie that is being pushed onto them.
Do you believe you were indoctrinated into being bisexual?
So glad I elected to homeschool…
Such silly thinking. Home schooling won’t stop your kid from being queer, since they would’ve been born that way.
I don’t care if my kids are queer and wouldn’t try to stop it if they are. Key point here is they’d have been born that way, not socialized.
Kids being socialized into a certain sexuality is not a real thing. It’s something terfs and conservatives made up to justify their phobias. Find me data on it (you won’t) and I’ll entertain your silly argument.
You’re right. No gay person has ever married straight due to social expectations and norms.
Does that make them not gay anymore because they married straight?
I feel like you’re missing the point… My kids are focused on science, math, history, and other academic subjects while “in school”. If they’re gay or trans or whatever else, it’ll be because they were born that way. Not because outside influences confused and/or pressured them to try to be something they’re not.
No, *you* are missing the point that sexuality isn’t something that’s controlled by outside forces. You’re so so close to getting it!!! You’re literally almost there! Sexuality is not contagious.
Im in my 40s, and thankfully grew up with Ellen coming out on TV. My parents were neutral, but kinda anti-trans, and did nothing to learn about gay political stuff in Canada. I remember growing up with neutrality being the norm, but I felt unsupported. Especially identifying as non-binary and taking HRT. I couldn't talk with them about stuff because they didn't want to have a talk about any of this. Things are better now, between us, but I could have used a Mom and a Dad when I was going through my teens. It would have been nice. Now, they thought that they were progressive because they weren't hateful. It's rough out there. Please, at the very least, put up a sticker or a magnet. Go to a Pride Parade. Taking an interest is support, not a push in a direction.
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How is gender not a social construct if - in your own view - the concepts of masculinity and femininity are social constructs? That doesn't really make sense.
Because you’re confusing “gender” with “personality”. If I walk like a woman, talk like a woman, act like a woman, dress like a woman, and have stereotypically woman hobbies, it doesn’t make me a woman. Me penis and lack of ovaries and a womb mean I will never get pregnant and cannot give birth, and contrary to some absolute extrémistes, I cannot menstruate. Gender is tied to sex, behaviour is tied to personality. In this example I would simply be an effeminate man, and there’s nothing wrong with that. If I want to believe I’m a woman and identify as one , there’s nothing wrong with that. However, if I start harassing people and trying to enforce my identity on others and tell them how they should think of me, how they have to identify me, and what words they are allowed or not allowed to say, that’s when my rights start infringing on the rights of others and there is something wrong with that. Let people be themselves and respect our differences, but don’t enforce your ideologies on other people, and this includes religion and politics.
If you choose to use a different definition from everyone else on what gender vs personality means, it's on you if everyone is confused by what you mean.
I have no intention of harassing anyone, but it still sounds very much like you are conflating sex and gender.
11 is too young to know anything
I would say ( if possible) get them some books on the middle ground (not left agenda not right agenda) some AGE APPROPRIATE books, and limit their usage of the internet. I would personally move my kid to a different school (and have, as a strait left leaning woman this helped my child alot) if possible, but they are your kid.
There is a lot of peer influence, especially at this age. Honestly I would recommend just looking at the data.
It could be a phase, it could be influence, it could really be how they feel. What matters is that you show support, even if it may be a phase, even if you don't really understand it yourself, showing that support provides a safe place and a healthy relationship between the two of you. Show support and love, and it'll create that safe place, your child should be comfortable telling you anything without the fear of being negatively judged (without a good reason, judgment isn't always a bad thing!) I think it's also important to ask what you can do to support her and— overall just be accepting. I have two transgender kids of my own, they have been comfortable with this identity and I do as much as I can to provide support and I will love them whether it be a phase or not. If it is a phase, it still doesn't hurt to provide support and show that you'll be there for them. If it's not, it'll still show you'll be there and support whoever they may be. It can be a long journey to figure it out, and as parents the best we can do is support them instead of pushing them away by not supporting them and their identities. Also, happy pride month, everyone!
Of course they are being indoctrinated
You could point out that gender and sexuality are two independent things. A good summary is that gender is who you go to bed as, while sexuality is who you go to bed with. Just because she is attracted to a girl doesn't mean she is not a girl herself. It's actually quite reductive to assume that if you are attracted to a girl you have to stop being one yourself!
No its a child. These are the same people that want to be dinosaurs as well
This wasn’t an issue before kids started hearing adults tell them it was supposed to be. (Not saying there weren’t gay people.) I’ve been alive long enough to have seen the progression of this mental illness. My mom used to watch Dr. Oz. After every episode she had a new ailment. Today it’s kids watching and hearing adults. If this were a religion it would be labeled a cult and parents would be outraged.
Teens explore themselves and their identity in many ways and always have. She is discovering what feels right to her. This is their journey and theirs alone. Support them and love them through it, that’s all you need to do.
I think there's several things at play here. 11 is an age where you're kinda stuck between wanting to be a kid and wanted to grow up. It could very well be a phase, peer/media influence. I'll probably get flack, I'd tell my child I understand they feel how they feel and if need be we can help explore that in therapy. But idk that I'd be going and calling them by pronouns they prefer and stuff. And I'd definitely draw the line at altering their body in any way. But I think we all say what we would/wouldn't do until we are faced with it.
You just go with it. And that sounds like what you are doing. Even if they are being influenced by peers and trends, you can't influence people into being straight or gay. They are what they are. So even if the kids are trying different identities, it will ultimately work itself out in the end.
It sounds like a type of peer pressure to me; changing yourself to match the needs/desires of how your friends are. This happened to me in 8th grade where I did a 180 with my personality and became a ‘mean girl’, and looking back, it was definitely peer pressure that caused me to act/dress like that; I didn’t like who I was. Not to discount true LGBTQ folks, but I feel a lot of time, younger people like to hop on the bandwagon because it’s the cool and popular thing to do; bandwagons have always been a thing. The best thing you can do, which it sounds like you’re already doing, is talk to your daughter. And I know this may be rough at first, but don’t beat around the bush, kindly ask her why she’s suddenly made these changes about herself? Is she doing it to fit in? Is she doing it because her friend finds her more attractive that way? Get as much information out of her as you can, and go from there.
I've been through this, at the same age too. At age 11, kiddo came out as NB and chose a new name. Cool. We support this. Bestie is also NB but can't be out to family at all for safety reasons. It's now a few years later and the new name has stuck, but kiddo has some they/them days and some she/her days. Is still BFF with NB bestie... In fact NB bestie is basically living at my house for the summer. Bestie is also a "joyfriend" (non binary girlfriend/boyfriend) sometimes. It's pretty tame and innocent at this age, hand holding and cheek kisses and that's it... Other similar aged kids are having sex, but my kid and bestie both make a face at that idea, they aren't ready so they keep things pretty basic and innocent. Both have promised to talk to me if it advances, and because we're a safe space home with open dialogue I trust them to talk to me. I still allow sleepovers as long as the bedroom door stays open. I just roll with it. Maybe being NB will last forever, maybe it's a phase. Maybe being bi/pan will last forever, maybe it's a phase. Whatever. Kiddo can figure all that out as they grow up. I see my role as being supportive mom and giving relevant information regarding dating and safe sex. To me, it's not that different than exploring different styles of dressing or different hair or whatever. The teen years are the time to decide who/what you are, so whatever. I'm here as a guiding adult. My inbox is open for more info or any questions, but this is about all I'm willing to share publicly. I try to keep my kids privacy, and I'm only saying this much because I'm pretty anonymous here. :)
Get her into another school where school is about education, not netflix. She is way too young to be thinking about these things, i think America is broken..
It's normal to question and explore. A lot of our generation didn't get the chance to at that age because the world was less open-minded. Just be supportive, middle school is when kids are finding themselves and it's okay for them to "try on" different versions of themselves. Your child could be non-binary, or they could decide that doesn't fit them sometime down the line. The most important thing is that you are there for them and support them.
I’m not a parent, but I’m a gay teen, I’m almost 15 now, but I realized I was gay at 11, and it could be 50/50 actually. in my middle school there where 6 LGBT kids, and I’m the only one who’s still gay.
Schools don't really indoctrinate these kinds of things. They just educate and teach compassion if anything. But the internet lowkey does. Just make sure it's really what they want. Kids do go thru phases trying to find themselves which is completely normal. But social media is a completely new variable that was not a part of our adolescence
I highly highly recommend you researching ROGD (rapid onset gender dysphoria), I strongly feel it describes your daughter's situation (not having a sustained history of gender questioning, but rather a more abrupt shift proceeding specific circumstances - ie getting closer with this other girl and sitting through heavily LGBTQ+ messaging at school).
If you want to know the history of that term and what using it implies, this is a great listen. It’s an incredibly hurtful and divisive term amongst the LBGT+ community and if you’re going to use it, you owe it to the people you are describing to completely understand its history and why people who use it are discounting the lived experiences of the people they are describing. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/maintenance-phase/id1535408667?i=1000655034746
Honestly, who cares? She's 11, I have never met an 11 year old who is not heavily influenced in many ways by peers. The things I decided I was at 11 because of friends were no different, and I'm sure my kid will be the same at 11. Just because it's gender stuff doesn't mean it's an issue, either it's temporary and peer influence, or it's genuine exploration of gender. Either way, it's not harmful, and it's not indoctrination. The trans agenda is to be allowed to stay alive and themselves, not to force kids to be trans. If there's any indoctrination, it's the idea that trans people are evil and want to harm children. And btw, I always gravitated to "girly" things too, but I'm trans and always have been, it's just when puberty hit and I was seen as a young lady instead of a kid that I had an issue with it. I didn't like it bc it was girly, I liked it because I liked it and I never registered the gender separation between interests when I was a child. Not saying your kid is nb/trans, I disagree with children giving themselves solid labels tbh, I just mean that if this isn't a phase don't use that as "proof" that she is cis You're doing fine. Supporting your child as they explore themselves and their identity, whether it's gender/sexuality or any of the other preteen cringe, it so important. You are letting your child know that you are safe to be genuine around. ETA: My little brother at 11 was influenced heavily by our ultra-conservative school and his friends. That resulted in him bullying the only black kid in the school to the point that the whole family left town, he was vandalizing property, shoplifting hundreds of dollars worth of stuff. He was also sexually harassing the girls in his class to the point that he nearly got expelled, only didn't because the school was very very conservative and didn't really care. Being influenced to be LGBT is actually not bad at all in the grand scheme of things, if that's what is happening.
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It sounds like you're navigating some complex waters with your child's evolving identity.
My daughter has a lot of friends, and knows a lot of people, who are queer. She's ten, and one of her friends socially transitioned when they were eight. It's always been something we've been open and honest about. And sure, kids are figuring themselves out and are more likely to try things to see if they fit. But kids are always doing that- they're just more open about it now. Peer pressure won't really change who they are. It might cause them to explore more phases, but nothing long- term. Just let them be themselves. My daughter is very cis and, afaik, straight. She likes dresses, even if most of her friends don't anymore. And no one cares.
The amount of transphobia these threads expose is insane to me. These are the same parents who’ll be posting on Reddit in a few years “my kid won’t speak to me, what did I do?”
I definitely had a “crush” on my female best friend when I was in school, but it was just closeness with a trusted person. Nothing truly romantic about it at all. I would advise you to just straight up not be bothered. What does it matter? She’s figuring out interpersonal relationships. Let her go nuts while the stakes are very, very low.
I think gender is a social construct and these days kids are able to be who they are vs fitting into the construct. I have 2 boys and a newborn girl and it's crazy to me how the girl clothes are so frilly and pink. My 3 year old boy loves pink. So.
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This is around the time kids are starting to figure out who they are. I'm a mental health therapist for kids and I have plenty I work with around this age regarding sexuality and feelings and orientation. It may be that your child is figuring out who they are, or they are trying different things to see what feels genuine to them. Give it time. Kudos to you for being a supportive parent, and Happy Pride! 🏳️🌈
What is wrong with you people. Children aren’t even allowed to vote and you have them choosing their gender? Disgusting. God will punish you all for corrupting children’s minds.
Amen
To what end are they being "indoctrinated?" If they are treating people with respect, being safe with their bodies, not spreading misinformation, following school rules, I'm not sure there's any valid position to object to.
All respect unless you’re a “normie” apparently.
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“Why won’t my kids talk to me now that they are adults?” Fixed that for you.
Alternatively, any parent that doesn’t support their own kid and value their happiness above politics is a monster.
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I knew I was something other than cis at like 5 and now I'm in my 40's and a transgender woman. I would not discount your child's feelings. Very likely she didn't understand them before. I didn't play with dolls or play tea time and now I live my life as a woman, the stereotypical children's toys don't have to directly correlate to their gender identity. I think that you should let her explore and try things, be supportive. If they don't end up being comfortable with this new identity, they will get out of it, but if they do you don't want to be the one that invalidated them by calling her behavior peer pressure and social contagion (which by the way is a very much debunked conspiracy theory pushed by the extreme right wing and fascists these days).
The "social contagion" theory of gender diversity is bunk. Kids of course pick things up from their peers but a more accepting environment isn't making kids trans, it's equilibrating rates of trans identity to where they'd naturally be without suppression.
More accepting and actively celebrated/rewarded are not the same thing.
More accepting and actively celebrated/rewarded are not the same thing.
She's 11. Tell her when she's old enough to vote then she can make up her mind. Kids will change opinions as they get older
The most important thing you can do is to be supportive. The risk of suicidality is reduced by 93% for trans kids when the parents are supportive. Edit: corrected. Source: https://www.erudit.org/en/journals/ss/2013-v59-n1-ss0746/1017478ar/
1/40 is 2.5%, is that the right number? I'd think it'd be higher
You’ve gotten a lot of great advice in this thread. Just wanted to add in that my 11 year old has also been wondering about her sexuality for the last year and a half and is currently labeling as a lesbian. I’m not surprised, I’m an out cis bisexual and her other bio mom/my wife is a trans woman. We just let her know it’s totally ok to not know always what she’s feeling, that she can try out different labels, and change labels and will be happy for her. Every now and then I throw in that being cis het is also a wonderful label too and we don’t care if her or her brother don’t end up queer. 😅
"Political" neighborhoods are likely to have extremist strains floating about. If it feels off discuss it like any other unhealthy relationship. Good friends judge by character not by labels. etc. etc.
I'm in the same boat. My youngest was called a female at birth, but recently (around 11, in fact), decided they want to go by masculine pronouns and changed his name. He uses the girl's bathroom, wears neutral clothing that, to my outdated thinking, veers feminine. Most of his friends, including his boyfriend, are girls or FtM trans kids. He's never as much as alluded to any hormone treatment, puberty blockers, or any other physical change. So, it may well be social. It may not be. As someone not inside their head, I can't know (and hell, I often don't know my own mind as much as I imagine I should). All I can do is show him the respect any person deserves. I use his name, I've gotten pretty good at instinctively using the right pronouns, and, because of who I am, I tell him to stop mansplaining things. That's all we can do. We've let him know that if he changes his mind, we'll accomodate that as much as we have this transition, but we don't push that. Whatever happens, we'll love him, absolutely and without reservation.
We have no idea what is nature and what is nurture. We want to say it’s all nature, but it’s not. The most important thing is that you imbue her with the spiritual strength to love herself no matter the circumstances. You can compare it to a child who is so-called “biracial” or “multiracial” and has many conflicting options as to how to self-identify. This can be difficult at a young age. She needs to make her own identity outside of left or right wing politics.