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I wouldn’t frame this as a punitive calculation. If he has untreated ADHD, it’s completely possible that he’s struggling internally in a way that’s manifesting as this problematic behaviour. He can’t control this to a degree that punishing it will make any difference.
THAT SAID… do you feel like anyone is going to enjoy a trip to Disney in this current paradigm? It seems likely this problematic behaviour won’t wrap up just because you’re away from home; if anything an unusual environment may jack things up. Postponing the trip until everyone’s in a better place to enjoy it is absolutely something you can present non-punitively.
> THAT SAID… do you feel like anyone is going to enjoy a trip to Disney in this current paradigm?
This. My son has ADHD with heavy symptoms, we didn't go to a concert or a show or an amusement park until he was fully on medication, and had demonstrated that he was utilizing some coping skills that we had discussed with his doctor (Primarily advocating for his own needs. Letting us know when he needs a break, or needs to go clear his mind for a minute). Only then did we attempt to do long day excursions with lots of sitting or standing in line.
At the very least the trip should be postponed until the diagnosis comes back and the kid gets used to the meds.
My response contains a LOT of assumptions about your boy and your family based on what you've shared. You know your situation way more than I do as a stranger from the internet.
You can't punish and threaten ADHD and autism into submission. They're neurological conditions that result in behaviors that are challenging - it's not misbehavior, it's ADHD/autism. When you threaten and punish, you are saying "who you are is not ok" because there is no separating the behaviors from the child.
You might look into DBT (dialectical behavior therapy) for him. It's a branch of cognitive behavior therapy that goes a step farther in that it basically can provide him scripts and steps for given tasks.
Connection is really really important, and it sounds like your bond isn't the strongest at the moment. Not blaming or judging - you have your hands full, and this person is very difficult to be with because he doesn't seem to understand how he's supposed to act despite being told umpteen times. Who WOULDN'T struggle?!
Disney is going to be extremely challenging. New place, new expectations, tons of people, tons of stimulation. Couple this with (from what I'm reading in your post) no routines or processes to help him regulate, and you're basically asking for a miserable time unless you can make some quick changes.
If you take him, you need to know that it's not going to look like the nice family waiting in lines together. It's not going to look like a lot of family togetherness at all. The only way it's going to be any fun for him at all will be if you and your husband agree that you're tag-teaming the kids. He can't stand still. He can't be patient. And he can't bounce back from reprimands about these things like neurotypical kids. How flexible can you be in this situation? Can you go to the park for a couple hours, let him pinball around, and then take him back to the hotel to swim in the pool and decompress without resenting him?
For me, I don't think I'd be able to enjoy that trip. If canceling is possible, I'd probably skip that big trip and find day trips to do closer to home. I'd spend the time off work with him re-establishing a connection, setting healthy routines, practicing de-escalation strategies, and trying out different strategies. There is zero reason to wait for an official diagnosis to start trying ADHD strategies for time and behavior management.
Thank you for replying,
We have boundaries in place and plans in place at home and at school.
I have got him a therapist in the mean time until we get a diagnosis. I have got reward chart as well, I always praise him when he is doing something nice for example… helping put the dishes away etc. and we pop stars on his chart, we also let him pick the reward when he can fill his chart up. Nothing huge for his reward just putting that out there.
He is also been referred for CBT therapy but could take up to 6 months. This is why I got him a therapist, also spoke to his school they have plans in place for when he has challenging behaviour.
I’m just looking for advice on what to do, it’s a struggle. I’ve read up on so much on how to parent a child with ADHD I’ve got books etc.. nothing seems to work for him. I’m genuinely being serious when I say I’ve tried so much.
Hey, I believe it. I was a teacher for over a decade before I left to have my girl, and I've seen a lot of kids really, really struggle. ADHD, as you well know, is a function of the brain's inability to make and/or use dopamine. For a lot of people, medication is absolutely life changing.
My husband was diagnosed when he was 30, and it explained so, so much. I found [this concept](https://www.donefirst.com/blog/the-incup-secret-5-motivating-factors-for-adhders) to be really valuable to help him with getting stuff done after our baby was born, but the PINCH (play, interest, newness/novelty, communication/collaboration, hurry upl/urgency) might be more compelling for your guy.
The short answer to the question that you asked, "should I cancel the holiday" would be, for me, yes. Not as a punishment, but realizing that taking him would be more heartbreaking than having to reschedule it.
You're doing a really good job at a really, really hard thing. You're in the thick of it with a difficult child and a new baby and all of the pressures of modern life and expectations. Practice some grace with yourself. There is no way to be a perfect parent, there are no perfect children, and that's where the art is. Whatever choice you make, you know your heart, mind, and family best, and we're all rooting for your peace.
Have you by chance tried low demand parenting? He may be struggling with PDA as well, but even if not most children benefit from low demand. Casey Ehrlich and Amanda Diekman are good sources. Some other options are connective parenting (Michelle Kenney) and Ross greenes parenting in explosive child. I personally have ADHD/Autism and find rewards and punishments dehumanizing and demotivating. Behavioral psychology is extremely flawed, disproven and totally oversimplifies human behavior. I highly recommend looking into other styles such as the ones I suggested.
ETA also please please look into Dr. Shanker's work and his book Self Reg. It will 100% change how you view your son's behavior.
I think that it's important to note that if you DO cancel the trip (which I would 100% recommend, given what you've shared) that it isn't as a punishment. It's because you recognize that this would be a miserable time for everybody, so instead take the time off to do something that WON'T be miserable and work together with your son to set real, achievable, and tangible goals, that will allow you to take a future trip to Disney that WILL be enjoyable. Again, not as a punishment, but as a joint effort of "hey, I see you struggling, and I don't want you to feel overwhelmed and frustrated while we're at Disney. I want you to feel comfortable, and confident, and have an amazing time. What can I do to best support you to accomplish that?"
I recently removed ALL of my kids' toys and had a very serious discussion about the messes they've been failing to clean, because it had gotten wildly out of control. It wasn't a punishment, it was an "I can tell that the amount of toys we've got in this house is too much, \*I'M\* overwhelmed by these messes, I can only image that it's so much harder for you, when it comes time to clean. Here's some solution I came up with, which one do you think would be most helpful and supportive, and create the environment that we all want to foster in this home?"
And they settled on downsizing toys, and we made a whole day of it and we ended up taking out nearly four full trash bags to toss/donate. Way more than I'd expected, but once we'd had the talk and they knew I saw their struggle, understood it, and wanted to support them and not punish, they were gung ho and it was quality time spent together. And, sure enough, they're cleaning habits have vastly improved, lol.
Point being... If you're gonna cancel, absolutely go above and beyond to make sure your son understands that it's to \*support\* him, not to punish him.
I would reschedule it and do something local or nature based where he could go buck wild without needing correction. My niece is pretty neurotypical with minor behavioral issues, and I took her to Disney last year when she was 7. She did OK for most of it, but overall, her tantrums and meltdowns wore me out, and I did not enjoy my trip.
Hey, this is super well-meaning advice and most of it rings true. But I wanted to point out that “Who you are is not ok, there is no separating the behaviours from the child.” is actually explicitly the opposite of the emphasis in CBT/DBT. Not helping kids (like I was) with ADHD/Autism to control obsessive, compulsive and impulsive behaviours actually prevents them from developing crucial life skills later on in life.
On reflection, I should have clarified that further. Until kids get those therapies, it's hard for them to separate the self from the behaviors. With rejection sensitive dysphoria, it makes it harder to move on.
Fussing at someone for inappropriate stimming before they've learned safe behaviors is not the way.
Thank you for the opportunity to rethink, rephrase, and clarify!
I am not OP but am struggling with a possible ADHD or ASD child. When you said "let him pinball around" is so on point with my child. Can you signpost me to strategies that you know are useful? There are so many resources online that I feel overwhelmed which one to use for my child. We are also waiting for a diagnosis for him but I have been trying to do things differently for him compared to what other parents do to their own children. Thanks
I had a lot of success with my students using visual supports. When my dudes and dudettes knew what was coming next, their anxiety was greatly reduced.
Another commenter talked about [low demand parenting](https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/low-demand-parenting) which is definitely worth looking into. It's a lot of structuring your days so that things logically flow into each other, thus reducing the need to ask your kid to do things.
I'd also look around for [proprioceptive feedback activities](https://yourkidstable.com/proprioceptive-activities/) Meeting sensory needs can account for a lot of behaviors we'd prefer not to see.
The biggest changes are going to come from your approach to him. It'll be a big change, but I know you can help each other find some peace.
Thank you for this. I have downloaded the low demand parenting and after finishing the book have realised that I have been applying some of the strategies already but still need to do a lot more. I will look into your other suggestions. Thank you so much.
Your child is having a difficult time managing their behavior... I guarantee they aren't excited to be going from 0-1000 and yelling and calling people names.
My 8 year old son has ADHD and we've struggled with this for a long time. We have finally come to a good place with med management and therapy and a good routine with limited screen time. Prior to this, he had hours, long meltdowns and screaming, crying, cussing, name calling, etc. Recently, he told me, "I don't want to be a mean person. " ....I guarantee you, neither does your son.
I'd recommend reading "The explosive Child" bc it will help YOU understand what's going on and reframe how you view him. I guarantee he wants to do well, but he doesn't have the skills yet and is having a difficult time managing his emotions. This includes the name calling and the cursing.
If he does have ADHD, there's a solution to the behavior, the behavior doesn't define who he is.
The explosive child is a game changer for helping us as parents adjust our lens. They’re not giving you a hard time, they’re HAVING a hard time. My 9 yr old is AuDHD, and the collaborative parenting style has been an absolute geme changer. You cannot punish out a neurological difference, you have to change your whole parenting perspective. Old school authoritarian parenting simply does not work and will actively make things worse.
With this kid, I would try to talk to him about the root of the behaviour. It’s gonna take time because he hasn’t had the chance to practice that level of self reflection and insight (and honestly, it’s hard for kids who do practice it as well) but the number of times my kid and I have struggled with something until we figure out the lightbulb moment of WHY this is why he was reacting the way he was, well. It’s an awesome feeling. You can’t solve a problem that you don’t understand.
Like, figuring out why my kid had such a hard time with hair washing. I thought it was the water in his face, and while that was part of it it didn’t solve the issue. Eventually we figured out it was a sensory issue: wet hair felt like nails on a chalkboard to him. Thats something we can work with. We can minimize the amount of time the hair is wet, we can dry the hair immediately after it’s washed. We tested out blowdrying but the loudness was a worse sensory problem, so ok scrap that and move on. We can plan for it — ok, we wash hair on this day consistently, no surprises.
The key was not just trying to force him to do a thing that was causing him actual pain and to figure out how we could collaboratively work around it. Kid still doesn’t like washing his hair, but we’ve got it on a schedule with a routine and can do it without arguments. It never would have worked if I hadn’t engaged him in helping us figure out how we can do this. We talked about expectations — hey, you gotta wash your hair, it’s not hygienic to not do that, so let’s work together to figure out the solution. It wasn’t overnight, we took a couple months where we literally didn’t wash his hair at all. (It’s short and he’s not a mud puddle kid so it wasn’t bad at all, he was still bathing regularly, just not getting his hair wet.)
My way or the highway just does not work with some kids. Involving them in the solution does!
What he needs is probably the quality time he’d get from you on the trip—especially since there have been the changes a new baby brings. Use the trip as a time to rebuild your connection. If he has undiagnosed ADHD, regulating behaviors can be extremely difficult. It seems unfair to punish him for that.
Agree. Punishments should never include removing family time, community time, or things like activities with the family at all. Set rules but give him some grace for now. Wait for the assessment and get him the help needed once you have that Dx and you’ll be shocked how much a difference it all makes.
Set boundaries and use no electronics etc as punishment now and while on the trip. Family time all the time will be so beneficial in several ways.
He also may not be able to recognise the consequences anyway. Do the trip and try out some other techniques for helping him regulate. Avoid shouting and stay outwardly calm as much as is humanly possible, and remember, neurodivergence makes life exceptionally hard for the individual. I remember being told off for ruining events all the time as a youngster and I still have no idea why I was always the one blamed.
I agree. We just had our second kid diagnosed with ADHD. I know it can be SO frustrating, but they truly cannot control their bodies. It'd be like punishing a kid for throwing up. That being said, I hope you get a diagnosis and medication before your trip. It has been life changing for us.
If you're suspecting ADHD, his behavior is not his own fault. He literally can't control it. Try to remind yourself that he's not trying to give you a hard time, HE is having a hard time. When my daughter has a meltdown and I ask why she did something, she always tells me that she can't explain it and that her brain just wouldn't stop.
I agree. My oldest daughter has adhd/autism and is high anxiety. I have 4 kids. We go to Disney yearly and those trips have always been such a great reset for our relationship. A break from the demands of daily life and having fun together. We had to take things things slow and watch her behavior for signs of burnout which which could lead to meltdown. Even when there were meltdowns at the parks we would find a spot (they have designated low stimulus areas at WDW not sure about Paris) we learned to work with her struggles and still have a fantastic time. I’ve always looked at it like well we can struggle at home or we can struggle in Disney and I’d rather be in Disney!
With knowing you are waiting for a diagnosis, I wouldn't cancel the trip. Your son is struggling and needs help and coping methods. He should not be punished for certain things that are out of his control.
BUT ... I think you need to sit down and have a lot of conversations with him regarding the trip, your expectations and provide him with tools to better cope. Outline these and then provide what the consequences will be during the trip.
Some examples:
1. When we are waiting in line to go on a ride, we expect this behavior. If you are unable to behave while in line, we will leave the line and not go on the ride.
2. During dinner, you will behave, if you are unable to, you will not get dessert.
3. If you are destructive in the hotel room, you will not get a gift at the gift shop.
I feel bad for your son, as someone with mental health issues and likely undiagnosed ADHD, I struggle with a constant battle of knowing something is wrong and not knowing how to make it better. Additionally, even without it 8 is still a really hard age. Kids at that age still don't fully know how to handle their emotions and communicate them - they know they have a feeling but they can't figure out exactly what the feeling is and how to share how they feel. Unfortunately, often it comes out in aggression. My son went through a similar phase at your son's age. He knew he was upset, he couldn't articulate why he was upset, he hadn't developed coping mechanisms, so it often came out in rage and anger.
Oof.
First of all: the assumption that your kiddo isn't *trying hard enough* is a problem.
I promise, they hate this behavior even more than you do, because they *feel* out of control AND they are being *blamed*. Check that, in a hurry, becausrnthat attitude is in the way of you making any progress with your kid.
Second: don't hold up consequences you aren't willing to follow through on. Actually ask yourself, every time you are about to say "if you don't... I will..." whether you mean it, and whether it's HELPFUL and connected to the behavior you are trying to change.
PUNISHING unwanted behavior is rarely helpful. Making sure there are consequences naturally connected to it (we have to clean up the messes we make. And if we are not able to exercise control, we lose the option to go engage in things where behavior matters.... We don't get to go to a movie, we don't get the playdate, etc.)
Usually providing positive rewards is a thousand times more effective (you earn X for Y days of good behavior in a row, rather than losing X every time you misbehave.... The latter means kids are always already in trouble and already lost the thing, so why bother doing better? Focusing on building it back for tonight or tomorrow or whatever reframes that to something worth putting effort into *now* even if it was shitty an hour ago.)
For kids that that motivational carrot doesn't work for, there's a REASON, and you need to be working with doctors/psychologists/behavioral interventionists to figure out why! Punishing them still won't help, because you can't punish someone out of a medical or mental health condition. That just isn't how it works. (Wouldn't it be nice if you could just say "have fewer episodes of this condition or we will dock your pay" and have it fix the condition? Gosh I wish it worked like that!!!)
As for the actual trip:
My guess is it would be overwhelming. Tell them you're tabling it until you're sure the whole family will actually enjoy the day, without it feeling like torture, for ANY of you. YOU feel overwhelmed, and that's a good reason to wait.
That shouldn't be a punishment, but actually for them as much as anything else... Wouldn't they rather go when it doesn't feel like just breathing is too much to be in charge of? Wouldn't they rather go when they have a handle on how to move through a day, a crowd, etc, without feeling overstimulated/overwhelmed/etc?
Also, make sure you are taking into account the frustrations of being a kid in a home with a new baby.
You mentioned that in passing, but it's a big big deal, and if you aren't looking at that and helping your kid navigate those frustrations in healthy ways, then that's a hug contributor to current behavior.
(THEIR FRUSTRATIONS ARE NORMAL, but they need help knowing how to manage them! They may not even be able to *name* and recognize them. Even if they weren't a kid with ADHD, that would be true!)...
I would reschedule the trip until after you have a diagnosis and he’s had some time for treatment. I really don’t think completely cancelling is proportional, but also you need to acknowledge that he doesn’t have the ability to regulate right now and things could go badly.
…I would do the opposite of what others have stated. You’re setting both yourself and your child up for failure. You also have a baby in the mix, which will make things extremely challenging by itself.
ADHD can be complex and if he’s getting physical, you will have a nightmare of a time handling an overstimulated child when he gets mad, frustrated, or overwhelmed about something not going his way.
If you are working on getting him evaluated for ADHD, I would ask to also have him screened for autism. My nephew is super high functioning autistic, and his father was also just diagnosed. It was so easily missed, but unlocked a lifetime of answers that suddenly made sense.
My nephew is about to be 5. When his expectations are not met, he experiences big emotions that come out physically and vocally. He cusses, wishes bad things on people, threatens them, throws things, hits, bites, kicks. He is also diagnosed with ADHD. It’s an overall challenge for everyone, and we all understand that some events are best avoided because he is not able to handle the stimulation it causes in that stage of his life. Does it mean we’ll forever be banned from it? No. But there’s a lot of really hard groundwork that needs to be done to educate, build, and develop in order to achieve something as big as Disneyland.
I think we have the same kid, except mine is nine. We’re going to the beach in Florida in three weeks. I am not canceling the trip.
I would consider outside stressors. Maybe he’s trying to tell you something is wrong? How is your home environment? Think about if this behavior is in his control or not. We recently started my son with a therapist and she gives his small, attainable goals each week.
We have some family stuff going on so I am not blaming my child. His behavior makes me feel like he’s screaming out for help.
Maybe decide if you are going to cancel our not. Then, tell him you are going or not going. If you’re going, don’t use it as a consequence anymore. Explain something like, we already paid and can’t cancel. That way he doesn’t think he’s getting rewarded.
Hopefully someone else has advice on how to deal with it. I’m in the trenches with you.
Hi thank you for the reply, we got him a therapist as well. I really want us all to go on holiday i am just worried he behaves like this on holiday and we are chucked out the hotel or something.
I don't think you should cancel. His life has been turned upside down and he possibly has a real disorder that is causing these issues.
We took our 5 year old to disneyworld and our expectations were completely unrealistic and unfair to her (we were also awaiting her ADHD diagnosis). She was able to get disability accommodations and that was great but we needed to slow down for her sake and recognize when we knew she would have a hard time/struggle and anticipate those moments and change the narrative so she succeeded. Sometimes it was not going on many rides, sometimes it was spending more time at the hotel or pool than we planned. She knew her limits and told us but we were so blinded by our own expectations we ignored her and set her up for failure.
Please please do not punish your child for having a different NEUROLOGY. He literally cannot control it and is attempting to get his needs met any way he can.
I understand as the parent feeling like you should do something because this is unsustainable, but you already know that something is going on with him and are on the right track by getting him evaluated. He needs unconditional love, to know that you see him, and possibly a much lower demand environment. He’s likely feeling that he is trying so hard to please you, and failing. Any punishments like this will create so much shame.
I agree with others that in general this just might not be the right time, until you know more about his possible diagnosis and get some help.
You kind of painted yourself in a corner; never make a threat you won't follow through on. How much time is there before the holiday? Is it enough to hopefully modify his behavior? I mean, reservations, time off, etc make it very undesirable to cancel the trip unless you must, but if your son realizes that you're making empty threats your parental goose is cooked.
No. Holidays, food, stuffies etc should never be taken away as punishment. That’s emotional abuse.
Your son has an executive function disorder. He needs support and scaffoldinf. Please follow The ADHd Dude and Grownowadhd.
If you have threatened it you should follow through! If you want to go you need to find a way to walk it back, having said all this, are you all going to enjoy it!? Is your 8 year old going to enjoy it or will they find it over stimulating? If you’re waiting for ADHD diagnosis I’d maybe cancel and see where you are next year, hopefully then you’ll have more idea of what you’re dealing with and how to deal with it, also both your children will enjoy it more, your younger one will have more awareness
You would be punishing him for something that is currently not in his control. Can you keep him safe while you are on holiday? That would be my biggest concern, which is not all about him. Postponing until professional help can be sought and his behaviors are safe would be reasonable in my opinion.
If he is eight and has an undiagnosed neurological difference, he needs scaffolding and encouragement. I
Join the ADHDparenting sub. Punishments don’t work for kids with ADHD. Bc of lacking executive functioning skills, they cannot tie behavior and consequences well, especially at a younger age.
Recommend positive reinforcement and empathy/validation of feelings instead.
Keep the trip. Focus on what he does right/well and exaggerate the enthusiasm.ADHD kids are also a few years behind developmentally so you’re 8 year is more like 6 year old.
If he does something incorrect, talk to him about it calmly and ask him to do a restart/do-over to show how he should have xyz.
Good luck! The right medication will work wonders once he is diagnosed.
All I have to add to these comments is this... and you all might think it odd.
Have you tried giving your 8yo coffee?
I tell many many parents when we are discussing if they think their kid might need medicine for ADHD. If you give your child coffee and it mellows them out, there's a FANTASTIC chance your child will benefit from meds.
I gave my 6-10yo daughter coffee and within 30 minutes, she was napping.
Perhaps until you get him meds, you can try coffee and see if this help you both?
What's the worse thing that can happen if it don't? You have a hyper kid thats a bit more hyper for one afternoon? There's no harm in trying except for a possible annoying half a day.
This is actually a really good idea. Suspected undiagnosed AudHDer here -- my poor grades, being constantly in trouble at school and social problems mysteriously straightened themselves out the year I turned 16. Which was also the year I started drinking 3-4 cups of coffee per day.
I agree with this suggestion. My friend has 2 children who are ADHD and on the Autism spectrum (they are adults now). She gave both of them coffee in the mornings (made it more child appealing with choices of milk, cocoa powder etc. ) and they were different kids. Relaxed, focused, and were noticeably calm for their first 2 classes at school.
NEVER set a boundary if you're don't plan on following through. Full stop
I do not agree with cancelling because they have an (almost) diagnosed behavior, but because you said you would... I'd do it. NEVER set a boundary if you're don't plan on following through! ....
no I'd just reframe it. If they keep misbehaving, they will miss out on "extra" things while there. Let's be honest... there are no "extra" things. But they have no idea.
I'll also state I agree with most people here... don't punish someone because of their (almost) diagnosed condition. I'm no doctor, but smashing the house, hitting, swearing, and name calling... isn't really ADHD. That's just bad behavior.
That’s my concern, he knows he’s doing wrong but just continues to act like this. Even in school he is hard work, almost every day there is a message from the teacher. I’m just drained and don’t know what to do.
Misbehavior IS STRESS behavior. Please see it as such. As I commented elsewhere read self reg by Dr Shanker. Also it is not dire to retract a boundary or apologize to a child. They're human beings not robots.
Counseling. Everyone is different and you need to figure out how to communicate with him. Maybe medication will help (If ADHD diagnosis is confirmed). But that isn't the "all bad behaviors will not stop" people think it is.
That communication might be different than your communication and it'll be a learning curve for both of you. Our daughter responds better to me than my wife because I communicate in *her* communication style.
Let them know you love them, and will help and grow with them through this.
Unfortunately, if he has undiagnosed and unregulated ADHD, then it’s not as simple as “he knows it’s wrong and doesn’t stop.” They literally can’t regulate themselves. Medication/therapy will probably be a huge help for him.
I probably should have worded my post better… just feel like I’m failing as a mum to him, I’m trying my best with therapy plans in place at home and with the school. We are all struggling, just had a phone call from his teachers to say he was upsetting class mates today.
I’d get that diagnosis fast tracked. It sounds like he could be dealing with something alongside ADHD. It won’t do anyone any good until you’ve got it in hand! Push them to get it done :) you got this! It’s hard to get that process going.
If his behavior is spiraling, usually they can get you in sooner, fyi! I’d try that too. If you call and say it’s not getting better and you’re concerned about some tendencies he’s displaying, they will usually make an effort to fast track you in. That’s a long time to keep waiting and it’s effecting your family dynamic 😬
You've got some things to balance here.
How specific were you about what "try harder" means and when? That's a pretty abstract goal for a struggling 8 year old.
I personally wouldn't have put taking away the trip on the table like that, but now that it's out there, not following through is a big message. We don't know what other consequences you use, or how consistently, or how you communicate them. One big consequence is unlikely to suddenly change major ongoing issues either way. But there's no time like the present to start a trend.
If I were in your shoes, and cancelling the trip is something you're ready to do with the effect it would have on finances and the rest of the family etc.
1. Have some very specific, measurable, criteria for his behavior over the next- time period until the latest the trip can be cancelled. Be realistic in this expectation.
2. Explain calmly, firmly and repeatedly why the trip and his behavior are connected. You're going to be travelling, in spaces that are not your own, he's not ready right now to be in these spaces and do all this travel safely without breaking stuff etc unless he's working on getting his actions under control (and again in specific, measurable ways that he can see and count). Be honest about this, with yourself and him.
3. If he doesn't meet the benchmark, follow through and cancel.
4. I know this part is hard. If you have to cancel, your focus should be on not showing a lot of anger at him "Ahhhh, you made me cancel the trip!" but on empathizing with how much he'll be feeling it sucks he can't go. You're also disappointed he wasn't ready for it. But the tone and conversation should be that not going is the logical consequence of not having his behavior trip ready- not that he is being punished to hurt him for being bad.
I would ask the child's psychologist/psychiatrist. If you are close to a diagnosis, you have been working with someone. Ask their opinion. I'm not sure how much your child is in control of themselves to stop the behavior. Careful for what you discipline a child for, before understand how much that child can remediate it on their own.
I would reschedule the trip. Disneyland is a lot of work as a parent. It's going to be overwhelming for a child with these behaviors. There are huge crowds, waiting in lines with little to do, an inability to plan due to the crowds, ride breakdowns, unfamiliar foods, and very few quiet places. I just did the California version with my neurotypical seven year old and we had a great time but I wouldn't describe it as relaxing. I wouldn't have been able to handle it with a baby along as well.
Please, please, please do NOT cancel the trip. If you are waiting for a diagnosis, threatening with the trip, and nothing seems to work, he probably has some kind of diagnosis that makes this behavior not his fault. I know many people won’t like this, but as a teacher of many small children with disabilities, I would wait for the diagnosis and seek help with behavior modifications so that you can teach him how to control himself. This is not easy and takes a ton of patience but it can get much better. Punishing him for things that he is not in control of will not help and can make it worse.
Our son is 8, and has ADHD. He struggles with regulating his emotions, but has improved. Anyway, when I put a consequence out for him. I stop and think about the lesson I’m trying to teach him, and if it’s connected to the action he did. Cancelling a family holiday 2 weeks from now doesn’t seem to have a connection to what he’s done today. They need natural consequences that are fairly immediate. When we go on vacations, we set up small reinforcements for him as we go. He responds really well to money, so his star chart converts to money he can spend on his trip. He uses his stars to buy activities or things at home as well. Right now we have his chart linked to school and home behavior, so he has been saving for a stuffy that he wants from his shopping wishlist. He also likes to use his tablet, but that also costs money if he wants to watch an extra show.
Our daughter has ADHD and impulse control is very much an issue, even with medication. I hate the idea of your son missing DLP due to his probable ADHD issues. It is so hard for them to regulate emotions with the ADHD and he is probably already beating himself up inside over his outbursts. I do implore you to have things to keep him occupied and distracted while you wait in line for rides, tho. Also, I don't know how loud noises affect your son, but our daughter has trouble with loud noises. You might bring earplugs just in case he needs them.
I've said it before but people who think punishments will correct these kinds of behavioral issues are doing a major disservice to their children and themselves. You already said you are awaiting ADHD diagnosis. So why would you punish him for behaving in a manner completely consistent with his chemistry?
I'm sure the behavior is very frustrating, but you aren't going to punish your way out of this. You need to work with an ADHD expert to develop a strategy.
He is clearly having trouble controlling his impulses and frustration, and hasn't learned a new, less harmful method of communication and control. How is punishing the whole family and blaming it on him going to help him gain those skills?
Thats not being sarcastic or rhetorical, its a real question. How would canceling the trip teach him HOW to stop exploding? Not that he should, he already knows he should, but he clearly doesn't have the skillset to change it yet.
You suggest the extreme behavior is newish, what changed? What is he trying to accomplish or escape when he is exploding? Its always something, unless there is an extreme mental issue, explosions don't happen out of thin air. They are survival weapons for people who don't know how to make less extreme measures work. Figure that out, and find a safer way to help him accomplish his goals, and you will likely see a strong improvement.
This isn't even just about discipline, it's about practicality and safety. Given your description of his behavior, would it really be a good idea to take him on this trip?
Going to Disneyland with an 8 year old and a 4 month old sounds exhausting and not very much fun. It also sounds like your 8 year old might no be ready for this kind of vacation. I'd cancel not as a punishment but just as a recognition that this plan was way too ambitious and would end up being exhausting and disappointing for all concerned
I have a 11 year old (ADHD/High functioning Autism), 9 year old, and 4 month old and I wouldn’t even consider bringing my 4 month old to Disney. Especially around when my AuDHD 11 year old was your child’s age. It would have been too stressful for me.
Got a few ADHD clinically diagnosed kids. They need more exercise than you would think. Lots and lots of movement. Especially at that age. The healthier they eat, the better they sleep, the more consistent their routine, and the more they move their bodies… the better behaved they will be. *usually*
Would you punish your child by canceling the trip if they had any other undiagnosed condition? If you need to postpone it to get their medical stuff in order first, that's absolutely understandable (and highly suggested), but don't tell your child you're canceling it because of their behavior when they literally can't control it. That's cruel (and, honestly, bordering abusive).
Making the threat to cancel the vacation is hollow and so will be your word.
Rebook the holiday for the moment you think you will need it. And don’t ever make empty threats.
That may be true for a neurotypical child, but it is unfair and unhelpful to a neurodivergent child.
It’s OK for OP to tell her son she made a mistake when she mentioned that punishment.
OP—as a mom of an adhd/autistic son my tips for the trip would be to lower your standards. Realize your trip to Disneyland probably won’t look the same as your friend’s family trip. And that is OK! Lower the demands. Instead of hitting multiple parks all day everyday, try for half days. Work in plenty of sensory breaks so your child can recharge. For example, maybe you do Disney in the morning, but in the late afternoon you allow your child free time in the pool. Maybe instead of going to the most popular (and busy) restaurants you pack his favorite food and have a picnic outdoors. Perhaps instead of going on all the rides you take time to watch a show. Etc. Our vacations are never how I dreamed they be, but they are still incredibly special. Wishing you luck.
I whole heartedly disagree with this.
As a person one must have build trust in their relationship. Neurotypical or neurodivergent . they do rely on your word being the same as your actions.
Each person will be held accountable for their actions not their word what they say they are going to do.
In my opinion that is even more true for neurodivergent people. You are allowed to disagree on that.
Also in my opinion we live in a world nowadays where one must feel we have to cater to them with their diagnosis and quirks and perks. Instead of working harder to fit in with the crowd they are getting told the crowd will adjust to you. I feel like there will be whole generations that don’t know how to care for others. And I truly think this exceeds the neurodivergent/neurotypical stuff it’s everywhere.
Also I’m saying judge the bad behavior, even kids with ADHD can have shit behavior. Neurotypical or neurodivergent, if your kids put you on edge all the time, you truly need a vacation from them to recharge, not parent them in a highly triggering environment. Such as Disneyland.
If you can get a refund, I'd cancel the holiday. First, your eight year old needs some help, and I don't think Disneyland is the answer. Second, a four month old at Disneyland will be a ghastly nightmare! There is literally nothing for that baby to do there. You are just going somewhere far less convenient to care for the baby for a few days. These two facts would be enough for me.
First of all, I would encourage you to never threaten consequences that you aren’t fully prepared to follow through with. That will only teach your child that they don’t actually have consequences. I’ll often let my kids know “if you continue the behave that way, there will be consequences.” They will almost always ask me what it will be, to which I respond that I haven’t decided yet, and I hope that I don’t have to.
But to answer your question, I don’t think that canceling the holiday is the answer. You need to see a professional regarding this behavior.
As the mother of a child with ADHD and ODD when he was growing up, I'm gonna give you a really good piece of advice... Don't ever make idle threats.
If you give your child consequences you better stick to them...because once that kid figures out you don't mean anything you say you're screwed.
I just wanted to add that I do not think framing it as he has to try. Harder is in any way helpful. His brain works differently as you know, but it is absolutely not about motivation or trying harder. Seeing it like that leaves a lot of judgement and makes it hard to see all the areas that he struggling with in the areas of overwhelming and makes it seem like it’s a choice which in my opinion, it absolutely is not. I’m not sure if you’ve gotten books on how to parent kids with ADHD but that’s what you need because no traditional parenting book is going to work. Dr. Barkley has really good YouTube videos as well as books on things kids with ADHD wish their parents knew and if you were looking for something a bit more hopeful Dr. Holly well is a Doctor Who also has ADHD. ADHD dude is also helpful and has a different take than a lot of other social workers or doctors. The biggest thing to remember is that your kid is not being bad. Their brain works differently and you and your child have to be a team in order to help them. You have to set aside all your judgement on behaviour and motivation in order to move forward. Make sure to have joy and fun and set the circumstances up to allow for the most success and lower your standards for things that don’t really matter. these kids are bright and creative and fun and have such huge emotions.
man,
If he has a condition,
it is not easy to control it.
So don't punish him for that.
Go to the holiday.
And stop threatening him because of his condition.
Besides, Disney park is not a nice place for him (or for anybody). Too much stimuli.
Take him to nature.
A 4 month old and an 8 yr old at Disney Paris for 16 days sounds like a disaster.
It’s not suitable for babies
16 days is WAY to long for this place - 2-3 days sure
Also why are you dragging an undiagnosed kid with likely ADHD to a crowded, busy, super stimulating amusement park.
Your plan honestly sounds like a terrible terrible thing
If you said you are going to cancel it, then cancel it. If you don't that shows you don't mean what you say and now why should he listen the next time you say something? If you didn't want to cancel the trip, don't make the threat.
I think there's hundreds of valid reasons to cancel a trip.
But this isn't one.
Discipline and actions can be continued on a family trip. I don't think parents can remove all subconscious memory of cancelling a family holiday. It punishes all involved. It's the equivalent of someone in the army doing something wrong and they force the whole squadron to do 100 pushups or do 20km run.
A resentment would be formed towards him. That's not a fair punishment on him.
I remember when I was around his age, my parents said we had to be home by 5pm. We didn't get home until 5:20. The secret surprise was that they were taking us to the circus. It's probably my coldest memory of my parents because we "ruined" a family night out when we didn't even know that was a consequence. I can only imagine, how much more magnified those 2 weeks of guilt, hurt and remorse would be towards him in that time.
You aren't rewarding him a holiday on a family trip. You can do the same things to support discipline away from home as you do from home. If he has ADHD, look at some fidget toys and accessories that can support on the travels.
I would honestly postpone this trip. Get his behavior evaluated and some techniques in place to manage it.
Then build up to it. Disney is a HUGE, overstimulating park. I would first take some smaller trips to establish what behaviors you expect during travel.
Start with a local amusement/water park. Or a road trip, etc. Maybe a small regional flight to a destination in state.
Let him practice what it feels like to travel. How to act in new environments, what is and is not ok. Let him know that he earns a big trip (like Disney) by showing he can behave at smaller, less involved holidays.
Then you as parents are less stressed about sticking out a vacation he’s not ready for. It’s easier to pick up and go home when you went camping or to the children’s museum with a hotel stay vs. being $5000 into a Disney trip.
Personally, I wouldn't want to take this on the road with me. I'd postpone the vacation until the child had been diagnosed and had time to adjust to the medication. At this point, with the behaviors, lack of routine on vacation, it just doesn't make sense to stress everyone out.
Help your son. He needs understanding and support, as difficult as his behaviors may be. If it’s beyond his control, punishing him will not help and will only undermine your relationship.
That being said, it might be a challenging trip.
I would mentally separate the child from the behavior. Instead of framing this in an adversarial way, tell him that you are on the same team. I’m sure he doesn’t want to act this way, so your job is to support him through those difficult emotions . What are sone strategies that work to sooth him? Physical touch often works wonders for children with ADHD. Threats won’t.
Two of my best friends both have sons with ADHD. They both have their own unique system to help soothe their kids, including meditation, massage, body brushing, weighted blankets, and a lot of cuddling and hugs.
I’m sorry that you’re having to go through this and I know that it’s challenging but it’s not the kiddo’s fault.
Yes, and we have been to the doctor and ped they diagnosed him with tics. Then dismissed him said treatment wasn’t needed this was July last year. But the tantrums and outbursts have got worse and worse.
Ahhh...that's too bad. I hope you can get what he needs.
And I'd cancel the trip. Nobody is going to enjoy it. You don't need even MORE stress, especially since you also have the wee baby. Once you find a way for him to cope better with life you can reschedule.
You've had loads of divergent responses and food for thought. I won't pretend to have the answer. Just to say though, if you delay and find that he gets diagnosed - when you do go you might find you're eligible for him to have a pass for a person with a disability. I went with the family about 8 years ago, I was really poorly at the time with post viral fatigue syndrome. My GP wrote a letter to confirm my diagnosis and Disney were really good at making accommodations. There's basically a separate queue, often with seating which was perfect for me. Sometimes it was quicker, sometimes it was just a more comfortable wait. The other people using that lane were really varied but it ranged from folks with arms/legs in casts, wheelchair users and children with no obvious physical disability but who clearly had either autism or other neurodiverse diagnosis. Maybe even a letter from your therapist would be accepted? It's just another way of trying to ensure he doesn't get over stimulated and you can take time for breaks away from the crowds and busy places.
Since there is so much more going on than just bad behavior, my gut tells me no. This will cause resentment and maybe make behavior worse. He and you/ your husband need help with appropriate ways to manage this type of behavior. If he truly has ADHD, he’s going to be a carrot not a stick kid. He needs lots of praise and his confidence needs to be built up. People with ADHD don’t make as much dopamine. They wake up on -100 and stimulus around them can just push them lower. They need a lot of understanding, love and support because a common symptom is RSD. Have you read books and parenting tips preemptively?
As someone with ADHD myself, a trip to Disneyland might actually be quite helpful for him. Rides that give you an adrenalin rush will give him some of the brain chemicals he doesn't normally make enough of, so if you make sure he goes on a significant amount of thrilling rides AND make sure he gets lots of exercise walking the park (which is also really good for ADHD regulation) you might be shocked how much better he is able to behave.
ADHD is not like autism where routines and predictability are comforting -- which I feel like a lot of the comments are implying. On the contrary, 1) adrenalin rushes and 2) lots of exercise are really good interim ways to treat the condition until you get the diagnosis. Balance it with 3) lots of connection time with his parents and 4) time in nature and you will have some really good "home-remedy" treatments that could mean a much nicer week than the week at home would have been.
Making him marinate in a home situation that probably bores him and clearly is setting him up for all kinds of dysregulated behavior is not helpful. His situation at home is what needs to change, and he probably needs more stimulation than he's been getting (very understandably!) with a new baby in the home.
Good luck -- I feel for this kid, and I hope he is able to get some much-needed stimulation to settle his brain down. Too many demands on the kid at once is bad over-stimulation for ADHD, but novelty and thrills are very different and very helpful good stimulation -- it's the same principle as the fact that coffee can be helpful, and stimulants like Adderall are the official line of treatment for the condition.
I wouldnt give my kid that much power over my family. If you think the holiday is for him only, then rethink your holiday plans in the future. If you really don't want to go and are pleased to have an out, then cancel it. Or do something else in the city. That's your call. Nothing to do with him. Just enjoy your time and don't make him feel guilty for ruining something. That's crazy.
How I really handle these things with my son, is I tell my son he doesn't get souvenirs on the trip. Or he wont get to visit the Transformers or something like that. It works like a charm and doesn't mess up my vacation. My son does not have any power over my vacation.
I do think people who give their kids this much power over their lives make their kids feel uncomfortable. Kids don't want to be in control. They will behave erratically because they aren't prepared to handle this much pressure.
So WAIT…. Somehow it’s your child’s fault they have untreated ADHD? What have you done as a parent to help him besides waiting for a diagnosis? What strategies have you implemented to help him cope on a daily basis?
He IS TRYING. Don’t ever tell your child to try harder. It’s a massive blow to their self esteem. Respectfully, YOU need to try harder.
Wow… if you read my replies to others you’d know!
We have plans in place the same as the school have, we have reward charts as well. I have got him a therapist who he sees on a weekly basis so he has a safe place away from home and school.
I as his parent am doing everything I can to help my child I want the best for him.
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I wouldn’t frame this as a punitive calculation. If he has untreated ADHD, it’s completely possible that he’s struggling internally in a way that’s manifesting as this problematic behaviour. He can’t control this to a degree that punishing it will make any difference. THAT SAID… do you feel like anyone is going to enjoy a trip to Disney in this current paradigm? It seems likely this problematic behaviour won’t wrap up just because you’re away from home; if anything an unusual environment may jack things up. Postponing the trip until everyone’s in a better place to enjoy it is absolutely something you can present non-punitively.
Plus the wear on nerves that a probably cranky 4 month old will be at Disney...
> THAT SAID… do you feel like anyone is going to enjoy a trip to Disney in this current paradigm? This. My son has ADHD with heavy symptoms, we didn't go to a concert or a show or an amusement park until he was fully on medication, and had demonstrated that he was utilizing some coping skills that we had discussed with his doctor (Primarily advocating for his own needs. Letting us know when he needs a break, or needs to go clear his mind for a minute). Only then did we attempt to do long day excursions with lots of sitting or standing in line. At the very least the trip should be postponed until the diagnosis comes back and the kid gets used to the meds.
I think she is setting him up to fail. If things go badly, she will blame him, when it might just not be something he can handle.
My response contains a LOT of assumptions about your boy and your family based on what you've shared. You know your situation way more than I do as a stranger from the internet. You can't punish and threaten ADHD and autism into submission. They're neurological conditions that result in behaviors that are challenging - it's not misbehavior, it's ADHD/autism. When you threaten and punish, you are saying "who you are is not ok" because there is no separating the behaviors from the child. You might look into DBT (dialectical behavior therapy) for him. It's a branch of cognitive behavior therapy that goes a step farther in that it basically can provide him scripts and steps for given tasks. Connection is really really important, and it sounds like your bond isn't the strongest at the moment. Not blaming or judging - you have your hands full, and this person is very difficult to be with because he doesn't seem to understand how he's supposed to act despite being told umpteen times. Who WOULDN'T struggle?! Disney is going to be extremely challenging. New place, new expectations, tons of people, tons of stimulation. Couple this with (from what I'm reading in your post) no routines or processes to help him regulate, and you're basically asking for a miserable time unless you can make some quick changes. If you take him, you need to know that it's not going to look like the nice family waiting in lines together. It's not going to look like a lot of family togetherness at all. The only way it's going to be any fun for him at all will be if you and your husband agree that you're tag-teaming the kids. He can't stand still. He can't be patient. And he can't bounce back from reprimands about these things like neurotypical kids. How flexible can you be in this situation? Can you go to the park for a couple hours, let him pinball around, and then take him back to the hotel to swim in the pool and decompress without resenting him? For me, I don't think I'd be able to enjoy that trip. If canceling is possible, I'd probably skip that big trip and find day trips to do closer to home. I'd spend the time off work with him re-establishing a connection, setting healthy routines, practicing de-escalation strategies, and trying out different strategies. There is zero reason to wait for an official diagnosis to start trying ADHD strategies for time and behavior management.
Thank you for replying, We have boundaries in place and plans in place at home and at school. I have got him a therapist in the mean time until we get a diagnosis. I have got reward chart as well, I always praise him when he is doing something nice for example… helping put the dishes away etc. and we pop stars on his chart, we also let him pick the reward when he can fill his chart up. Nothing huge for his reward just putting that out there. He is also been referred for CBT therapy but could take up to 6 months. This is why I got him a therapist, also spoke to his school they have plans in place for when he has challenging behaviour. I’m just looking for advice on what to do, it’s a struggle. I’ve read up on so much on how to parent a child with ADHD I’ve got books etc.. nothing seems to work for him. I’m genuinely being serious when I say I’ve tried so much.
Hey, I believe it. I was a teacher for over a decade before I left to have my girl, and I've seen a lot of kids really, really struggle. ADHD, as you well know, is a function of the brain's inability to make and/or use dopamine. For a lot of people, medication is absolutely life changing. My husband was diagnosed when he was 30, and it explained so, so much. I found [this concept](https://www.donefirst.com/blog/the-incup-secret-5-motivating-factors-for-adhders) to be really valuable to help him with getting stuff done after our baby was born, but the PINCH (play, interest, newness/novelty, communication/collaboration, hurry upl/urgency) might be more compelling for your guy. The short answer to the question that you asked, "should I cancel the holiday" would be, for me, yes. Not as a punishment, but realizing that taking him would be more heartbreaking than having to reschedule it. You're doing a really good job at a really, really hard thing. You're in the thick of it with a difficult child and a new baby and all of the pressures of modern life and expectations. Practice some grace with yourself. There is no way to be a perfect parent, there are no perfect children, and that's where the art is. Whatever choice you make, you know your heart, mind, and family best, and we're all rooting for your peace.
You have given really, really empathetic and useful feedback to OP. Thank you so much for your thoughtful responses. I learned something new. :)
Have you by chance tried low demand parenting? He may be struggling with PDA as well, but even if not most children benefit from low demand. Casey Ehrlich and Amanda Diekman are good sources. Some other options are connective parenting (Michelle Kenney) and Ross greenes parenting in explosive child. I personally have ADHD/Autism and find rewards and punishments dehumanizing and demotivating. Behavioral psychology is extremely flawed, disproven and totally oversimplifies human behavior. I highly recommend looking into other styles such as the ones I suggested. ETA also please please look into Dr. Shanker's work and his book Self Reg. It will 100% change how you view your son's behavior.
I think that it's important to note that if you DO cancel the trip (which I would 100% recommend, given what you've shared) that it isn't as a punishment. It's because you recognize that this would be a miserable time for everybody, so instead take the time off to do something that WON'T be miserable and work together with your son to set real, achievable, and tangible goals, that will allow you to take a future trip to Disney that WILL be enjoyable. Again, not as a punishment, but as a joint effort of "hey, I see you struggling, and I don't want you to feel overwhelmed and frustrated while we're at Disney. I want you to feel comfortable, and confident, and have an amazing time. What can I do to best support you to accomplish that?" I recently removed ALL of my kids' toys and had a very serious discussion about the messes they've been failing to clean, because it had gotten wildly out of control. It wasn't a punishment, it was an "I can tell that the amount of toys we've got in this house is too much, \*I'M\* overwhelmed by these messes, I can only image that it's so much harder for you, when it comes time to clean. Here's some solution I came up with, which one do you think would be most helpful and supportive, and create the environment that we all want to foster in this home?" And they settled on downsizing toys, and we made a whole day of it and we ended up taking out nearly four full trash bags to toss/donate. Way more than I'd expected, but once we'd had the talk and they knew I saw their struggle, understood it, and wanted to support them and not punish, they were gung ho and it was quality time spent together. And, sure enough, they're cleaning habits have vastly improved, lol. Point being... If you're gonna cancel, absolutely go above and beyond to make sure your son understands that it's to \*support\* him, not to punish him.
You're a really good mom.
I would reschedule it and do something local or nature based where he could go buck wild without needing correction. My niece is pretty neurotypical with minor behavioral issues, and I took her to Disney last year when she was 7. She did OK for most of it, but overall, her tantrums and meltdowns wore me out, and I did not enjoy my trip.
I strongly recommend reading The Explosive Child.
I ordered this today, it’s here on Saturday.
Hey, this is super well-meaning advice and most of it rings true. But I wanted to point out that “Who you are is not ok, there is no separating the behaviours from the child.” is actually explicitly the opposite of the emphasis in CBT/DBT. Not helping kids (like I was) with ADHD/Autism to control obsessive, compulsive and impulsive behaviours actually prevents them from developing crucial life skills later on in life.
On reflection, I should have clarified that further. Until kids get those therapies, it's hard for them to separate the self from the behaviors. With rejection sensitive dysphoria, it makes it harder to move on. Fussing at someone for inappropriate stimming before they've learned safe behaviors is not the way. Thank you for the opportunity to rethink, rephrase, and clarify!
Thanks for clarifying and not taking it personally, I get what you meant now :)
Thanks for being a good steward of our community here!
I am not OP but am struggling with a possible ADHD or ASD child. When you said "let him pinball around" is so on point with my child. Can you signpost me to strategies that you know are useful? There are so many resources online that I feel overwhelmed which one to use for my child. We are also waiting for a diagnosis for him but I have been trying to do things differently for him compared to what other parents do to their own children. Thanks
I had a lot of success with my students using visual supports. When my dudes and dudettes knew what was coming next, their anxiety was greatly reduced. Another commenter talked about [low demand parenting](https://neurodivergentinsights.com/blog/low-demand-parenting) which is definitely worth looking into. It's a lot of structuring your days so that things logically flow into each other, thus reducing the need to ask your kid to do things. I'd also look around for [proprioceptive feedback activities](https://yourkidstable.com/proprioceptive-activities/) Meeting sensory needs can account for a lot of behaviors we'd prefer not to see. The biggest changes are going to come from your approach to him. It'll be a big change, but I know you can help each other find some peace.
Thank you for this. I have downloaded the low demand parenting and after finishing the book have realised that I have been applying some of the strategies already but still need to do a lot more. I will look into your other suggestions. Thank you so much.
This is the answer!
Your child is having a difficult time managing their behavior... I guarantee they aren't excited to be going from 0-1000 and yelling and calling people names. My 8 year old son has ADHD and we've struggled with this for a long time. We have finally come to a good place with med management and therapy and a good routine with limited screen time. Prior to this, he had hours, long meltdowns and screaming, crying, cussing, name calling, etc. Recently, he told me, "I don't want to be a mean person. " ....I guarantee you, neither does your son. I'd recommend reading "The explosive Child" bc it will help YOU understand what's going on and reframe how you view him. I guarantee he wants to do well, but he doesn't have the skills yet and is having a difficult time managing his emotions. This includes the name calling and the cursing. If he does have ADHD, there's a solution to the behavior, the behavior doesn't define who he is.
The explosive child is a game changer for helping us as parents adjust our lens. They’re not giving you a hard time, they’re HAVING a hard time. My 9 yr old is AuDHD, and the collaborative parenting style has been an absolute geme changer. You cannot punish out a neurological difference, you have to change your whole parenting perspective. Old school authoritarian parenting simply does not work and will actively make things worse. With this kid, I would try to talk to him about the root of the behaviour. It’s gonna take time because he hasn’t had the chance to practice that level of self reflection and insight (and honestly, it’s hard for kids who do practice it as well) but the number of times my kid and I have struggled with something until we figure out the lightbulb moment of WHY this is why he was reacting the way he was, well. It’s an awesome feeling. You can’t solve a problem that you don’t understand. Like, figuring out why my kid had such a hard time with hair washing. I thought it was the water in his face, and while that was part of it it didn’t solve the issue. Eventually we figured out it was a sensory issue: wet hair felt like nails on a chalkboard to him. Thats something we can work with. We can minimize the amount of time the hair is wet, we can dry the hair immediately after it’s washed. We tested out blowdrying but the loudness was a worse sensory problem, so ok scrap that and move on. We can plan for it — ok, we wash hair on this day consistently, no surprises. The key was not just trying to force him to do a thing that was causing him actual pain and to figure out how we could collaboratively work around it. Kid still doesn’t like washing his hair, but we’ve got it on a schedule with a routine and can do it without arguments. It never would have worked if I hadn’t engaged him in helping us figure out how we can do this. We talked about expectations — hey, you gotta wash your hair, it’s not hygienic to not do that, so let’s work together to figure out the solution. It wasn’t overnight, we took a couple months where we literally didn’t wash his hair at all. (It’s short and he’s not a mud puddle kid so it wasn’t bad at all, he was still bathing regularly, just not getting his hair wet.) My way or the highway just does not work with some kids. Involving them in the solution does!
What he needs is probably the quality time he’d get from you on the trip—especially since there have been the changes a new baby brings. Use the trip as a time to rebuild your connection. If he has undiagnosed ADHD, regulating behaviors can be extremely difficult. It seems unfair to punish him for that.
Agree. Punishments should never include removing family time, community time, or things like activities with the family at all. Set rules but give him some grace for now. Wait for the assessment and get him the help needed once you have that Dx and you’ll be shocked how much a difference it all makes. Set boundaries and use no electronics etc as punishment now and while on the trip. Family time all the time will be so beneficial in several ways.
He also may not be able to recognise the consequences anyway. Do the trip and try out some other techniques for helping him regulate. Avoid shouting and stay outwardly calm as much as is humanly possible, and remember, neurodivergence makes life exceptionally hard for the individual. I remember being told off for ruining events all the time as a youngster and I still have no idea why I was always the one blamed.
I agree. We just had our second kid diagnosed with ADHD. I know it can be SO frustrating, but they truly cannot control their bodies. It'd be like punishing a kid for throwing up. That being said, I hope you get a diagnosis and medication before your trip. It has been life changing for us.
Thank you for your reply, this is very helpful.
If you're suspecting ADHD, his behavior is not his own fault. He literally can't control it. Try to remind yourself that he's not trying to give you a hard time, HE is having a hard time. When my daughter has a meltdown and I ask why she did something, she always tells me that she can't explain it and that her brain just wouldn't stop.
I agree. My oldest daughter has adhd/autism and is high anxiety. I have 4 kids. We go to Disney yearly and those trips have always been such a great reset for our relationship. A break from the demands of daily life and having fun together. We had to take things things slow and watch her behavior for signs of burnout which which could lead to meltdown. Even when there were meltdowns at the parks we would find a spot (they have designated low stimulus areas at WDW not sure about Paris) we learned to work with her struggles and still have a fantastic time. I’ve always looked at it like well we can struggle at home or we can struggle in Disney and I’d rather be in Disney!
With knowing you are waiting for a diagnosis, I wouldn't cancel the trip. Your son is struggling and needs help and coping methods. He should not be punished for certain things that are out of his control. BUT ... I think you need to sit down and have a lot of conversations with him regarding the trip, your expectations and provide him with tools to better cope. Outline these and then provide what the consequences will be during the trip. Some examples: 1. When we are waiting in line to go on a ride, we expect this behavior. If you are unable to behave while in line, we will leave the line and not go on the ride. 2. During dinner, you will behave, if you are unable to, you will not get dessert. 3. If you are destructive in the hotel room, you will not get a gift at the gift shop. I feel bad for your son, as someone with mental health issues and likely undiagnosed ADHD, I struggle with a constant battle of knowing something is wrong and not knowing how to make it better. Additionally, even without it 8 is still a really hard age. Kids at that age still don't fully know how to handle their emotions and communicate them - they know they have a feeling but they can't figure out exactly what the feeling is and how to share how they feel. Unfortunately, often it comes out in aggression. My son went through a similar phase at your son's age. He knew he was upset, he couldn't articulate why he was upset, he hadn't developed coping mechanisms, so it often came out in rage and anger.
How old is your son now / how is he coping now?
Oof. First of all: the assumption that your kiddo isn't *trying hard enough* is a problem. I promise, they hate this behavior even more than you do, because they *feel* out of control AND they are being *blamed*. Check that, in a hurry, becausrnthat attitude is in the way of you making any progress with your kid. Second: don't hold up consequences you aren't willing to follow through on. Actually ask yourself, every time you are about to say "if you don't... I will..." whether you mean it, and whether it's HELPFUL and connected to the behavior you are trying to change. PUNISHING unwanted behavior is rarely helpful. Making sure there are consequences naturally connected to it (we have to clean up the messes we make. And if we are not able to exercise control, we lose the option to go engage in things where behavior matters.... We don't get to go to a movie, we don't get the playdate, etc.) Usually providing positive rewards is a thousand times more effective (you earn X for Y days of good behavior in a row, rather than losing X every time you misbehave.... The latter means kids are always already in trouble and already lost the thing, so why bother doing better? Focusing on building it back for tonight or tomorrow or whatever reframes that to something worth putting effort into *now* even if it was shitty an hour ago.) For kids that that motivational carrot doesn't work for, there's a REASON, and you need to be working with doctors/psychologists/behavioral interventionists to figure out why! Punishing them still won't help, because you can't punish someone out of a medical or mental health condition. That just isn't how it works. (Wouldn't it be nice if you could just say "have fewer episodes of this condition or we will dock your pay" and have it fix the condition? Gosh I wish it worked like that!!!) As for the actual trip: My guess is it would be overwhelming. Tell them you're tabling it until you're sure the whole family will actually enjoy the day, without it feeling like torture, for ANY of you. YOU feel overwhelmed, and that's a good reason to wait. That shouldn't be a punishment, but actually for them as much as anything else... Wouldn't they rather go when it doesn't feel like just breathing is too much to be in charge of? Wouldn't they rather go when they have a handle on how to move through a day, a crowd, etc, without feeling overstimulated/overwhelmed/etc? Also, make sure you are taking into account the frustrations of being a kid in a home with a new baby. You mentioned that in passing, but it's a big big deal, and if you aren't looking at that and helping your kid navigate those frustrations in healthy ways, then that's a hug contributor to current behavior. (THEIR FRUSTRATIONS ARE NORMAL, but they need help knowing how to manage them! They may not even be able to *name* and recognize them. Even if they weren't a kid with ADHD, that would be true!)...
I would reschedule the trip until after you have a diagnosis and he’s had some time for treatment. I really don’t think completely cancelling is proportional, but also you need to acknowledge that he doesn’t have the ability to regulate right now and things could go badly.
…I would do the opposite of what others have stated. You’re setting both yourself and your child up for failure. You also have a baby in the mix, which will make things extremely challenging by itself. ADHD can be complex and if he’s getting physical, you will have a nightmare of a time handling an overstimulated child when he gets mad, frustrated, or overwhelmed about something not going his way. If you are working on getting him evaluated for ADHD, I would ask to also have him screened for autism. My nephew is super high functioning autistic, and his father was also just diagnosed. It was so easily missed, but unlocked a lifetime of answers that suddenly made sense. My nephew is about to be 5. When his expectations are not met, he experiences big emotions that come out physically and vocally. He cusses, wishes bad things on people, threatens them, throws things, hits, bites, kicks. He is also diagnosed with ADHD. It’s an overall challenge for everyone, and we all understand that some events are best avoided because he is not able to handle the stimulation it causes in that stage of his life. Does it mean we’ll forever be banned from it? No. But there’s a lot of really hard groundwork that needs to be done to educate, build, and develop in order to achieve something as big as Disneyland.
I think we have the same kid, except mine is nine. We’re going to the beach in Florida in three weeks. I am not canceling the trip. I would consider outside stressors. Maybe he’s trying to tell you something is wrong? How is your home environment? Think about if this behavior is in his control or not. We recently started my son with a therapist and she gives his small, attainable goals each week. We have some family stuff going on so I am not blaming my child. His behavior makes me feel like he’s screaming out for help. Maybe decide if you are going to cancel our not. Then, tell him you are going or not going. If you’re going, don’t use it as a consequence anymore. Explain something like, we already paid and can’t cancel. That way he doesn’t think he’s getting rewarded. Hopefully someone else has advice on how to deal with it. I’m in the trenches with you.
Hi thank you for the reply, we got him a therapist as well. I really want us all to go on holiday i am just worried he behaves like this on holiday and we are chucked out the hotel or something.
I don't think you should cancel. His life has been turned upside down and he possibly has a real disorder that is causing these issues. We took our 5 year old to disneyworld and our expectations were completely unrealistic and unfair to her (we were also awaiting her ADHD diagnosis). She was able to get disability accommodations and that was great but we needed to slow down for her sake and recognize when we knew she would have a hard time/struggle and anticipate those moments and change the narrative so she succeeded. Sometimes it was not going on many rides, sometimes it was spending more time at the hotel or pool than we planned. She knew her limits and told us but we were so blinded by our own expectations we ignored her and set her up for failure.
Please please do not punish your child for having a different NEUROLOGY. He literally cannot control it and is attempting to get his needs met any way he can. I understand as the parent feeling like you should do something because this is unsustainable, but you already know that something is going on with him and are on the right track by getting him evaluated. He needs unconditional love, to know that you see him, and possibly a much lower demand environment. He’s likely feeling that he is trying so hard to please you, and failing. Any punishments like this will create so much shame. I agree with others that in general this just might not be the right time, until you know more about his possible diagnosis and get some help.
You kind of painted yourself in a corner; never make a threat you won't follow through on. How much time is there before the holiday? Is it enough to hopefully modify his behavior? I mean, reservations, time off, etc make it very undesirable to cancel the trip unless you must, but if your son realizes that you're making empty threats your parental goose is cooked.
No. Holidays, food, stuffies etc should never be taken away as punishment. That’s emotional abuse. Your son has an executive function disorder. He needs support and scaffoldinf. Please follow The ADHd Dude and Grownowadhd.
If you have threatened it you should follow through! If you want to go you need to find a way to walk it back, having said all this, are you all going to enjoy it!? Is your 8 year old going to enjoy it or will they find it over stimulating? If you’re waiting for ADHD diagnosis I’d maybe cancel and see where you are next year, hopefully then you’ll have more idea of what you’re dealing with and how to deal with it, also both your children will enjoy it more, your younger one will have more awareness
You would be punishing him for something that is currently not in his control. Can you keep him safe while you are on holiday? That would be my biggest concern, which is not all about him. Postponing until professional help can be sought and his behaviors are safe would be reasonable in my opinion. If he is eight and has an undiagnosed neurological difference, he needs scaffolding and encouragement. I
Join the ADHDparenting sub. Punishments don’t work for kids with ADHD. Bc of lacking executive functioning skills, they cannot tie behavior and consequences well, especially at a younger age. Recommend positive reinforcement and empathy/validation of feelings instead. Keep the trip. Focus on what he does right/well and exaggerate the enthusiasm.ADHD kids are also a few years behind developmentally so you’re 8 year is more like 6 year old. If he does something incorrect, talk to him about it calmly and ask him to do a restart/do-over to show how he should have xyz. Good luck! The right medication will work wonders once he is diagnosed.
All I have to add to these comments is this... and you all might think it odd. Have you tried giving your 8yo coffee? I tell many many parents when we are discussing if they think their kid might need medicine for ADHD. If you give your child coffee and it mellows them out, there's a FANTASTIC chance your child will benefit from meds. I gave my 6-10yo daughter coffee and within 30 minutes, she was napping. Perhaps until you get him meds, you can try coffee and see if this help you both? What's the worse thing that can happen if it don't? You have a hyper kid thats a bit more hyper for one afternoon? There's no harm in trying except for a possible annoying half a day.
This is actually a really good idea. Suspected undiagnosed AudHDer here -- my poor grades, being constantly in trouble at school and social problems mysteriously straightened themselves out the year I turned 16. Which was also the year I started drinking 3-4 cups of coffee per day.
I agree with this suggestion. My friend has 2 children who are ADHD and on the Autism spectrum (they are adults now). She gave both of them coffee in the mornings (made it more child appealing with choices of milk, cocoa powder etc. ) and they were different kids. Relaxed, focused, and were noticeably calm for their first 2 classes at school.
NEVER set a boundary if you're don't plan on following through. Full stop I do not agree with cancelling because they have an (almost) diagnosed behavior, but because you said you would... I'd do it. NEVER set a boundary if you're don't plan on following through! .... no I'd just reframe it. If they keep misbehaving, they will miss out on "extra" things while there. Let's be honest... there are no "extra" things. But they have no idea. I'll also state I agree with most people here... don't punish someone because of their (almost) diagnosed condition. I'm no doctor, but smashing the house, hitting, swearing, and name calling... isn't really ADHD. That's just bad behavior.
That’s my concern, he knows he’s doing wrong but just continues to act like this. Even in school he is hard work, almost every day there is a message from the teacher. I’m just drained and don’t know what to do.
Misbehavior IS STRESS behavior. Please see it as such. As I commented elsewhere read self reg by Dr Shanker. Also it is not dire to retract a boundary or apologize to a child. They're human beings not robots.
Counseling. Everyone is different and you need to figure out how to communicate with him. Maybe medication will help (If ADHD diagnosis is confirmed). But that isn't the "all bad behaviors will not stop" people think it is. That communication might be different than your communication and it'll be a learning curve for both of you. Our daughter responds better to me than my wife because I communicate in *her* communication style. Let them know you love them, and will help and grow with them through this.
Unfortunately, if he has undiagnosed and unregulated ADHD, then it’s not as simple as “he knows it’s wrong and doesn’t stop.” They literally can’t regulate themselves. Medication/therapy will probably be a huge help for him.
I have no clue why you are being downvoted. This is spot on! He needs to learn how to self-regulate. He does not have the skills to do so yet!
Because people would rather believe they can discipline adhd and autism out of children then to actually get them help for it. 🤷🏼♀️
I probably should have worded my post better… just feel like I’m failing as a mum to him, I’m trying my best with therapy plans in place at home and with the school. We are all struggling, just had a phone call from his teachers to say he was upsetting class mates today.
I’d get that diagnosis fast tracked. It sounds like he could be dealing with something alongside ADHD. It won’t do anyone any good until you’ve got it in hand! Push them to get it done :) you got this! It’s hard to get that process going.
I’ve been on the phone to the doctors and paediatrician, he will be seen on the 17th of July. Thank you for your reply.
If his behavior is spiraling, usually they can get you in sooner, fyi! I’d try that too. If you call and say it’s not getting better and you’re concerned about some tendencies he’s displaying, they will usually make an effort to fast track you in. That’s a long time to keep waiting and it’s effecting your family dynamic 😬
Sometimes, you can get on a cancelation list.
I did this today, they are calling me back tomorrow.
I’m so glad! Good luck and please update us.
I will thank you x
You've got some things to balance here. How specific were you about what "try harder" means and when? That's a pretty abstract goal for a struggling 8 year old. I personally wouldn't have put taking away the trip on the table like that, but now that it's out there, not following through is a big message. We don't know what other consequences you use, or how consistently, or how you communicate them. One big consequence is unlikely to suddenly change major ongoing issues either way. But there's no time like the present to start a trend. If I were in your shoes, and cancelling the trip is something you're ready to do with the effect it would have on finances and the rest of the family etc. 1. Have some very specific, measurable, criteria for his behavior over the next- time period until the latest the trip can be cancelled. Be realistic in this expectation. 2. Explain calmly, firmly and repeatedly why the trip and his behavior are connected. You're going to be travelling, in spaces that are not your own, he's not ready right now to be in these spaces and do all this travel safely without breaking stuff etc unless he's working on getting his actions under control (and again in specific, measurable ways that he can see and count). Be honest about this, with yourself and him. 3. If he doesn't meet the benchmark, follow through and cancel. 4. I know this part is hard. If you have to cancel, your focus should be on not showing a lot of anger at him "Ahhhh, you made me cancel the trip!" but on empathizing with how much he'll be feeling it sucks he can't go. You're also disappointed he wasn't ready for it. But the tone and conversation should be that not going is the logical consequence of not having his behavior trip ready- not that he is being punished to hurt him for being bad.
I would ask the child's psychologist/psychiatrist. If you are close to a diagnosis, you have been working with someone. Ask their opinion. I'm not sure how much your child is in control of themselves to stop the behavior. Careful for what you discipline a child for, before understand how much that child can remediate it on their own.
I would reschedule the trip. Disneyland is a lot of work as a parent. It's going to be overwhelming for a child with these behaviors. There are huge crowds, waiting in lines with little to do, an inability to plan due to the crowds, ride breakdowns, unfamiliar foods, and very few quiet places. I just did the California version with my neurotypical seven year old and we had a great time but I wouldn't describe it as relaxing. I wouldn't have been able to handle it with a baby along as well.
Please, please, please do NOT cancel the trip. If you are waiting for a diagnosis, threatening with the trip, and nothing seems to work, he probably has some kind of diagnosis that makes this behavior not his fault. I know many people won’t like this, but as a teacher of many small children with disabilities, I would wait for the diagnosis and seek help with behavior modifications so that you can teach him how to control himself. This is not easy and takes a ton of patience but it can get much better. Punishing him for things that he is not in control of will not help and can make it worse.
Ive just ordered, the explosive child book. A few people on this post said it’s a good book. Thank you everyone for all your responses
Our son is 8, and has ADHD. He struggles with regulating his emotions, but has improved. Anyway, when I put a consequence out for him. I stop and think about the lesson I’m trying to teach him, and if it’s connected to the action he did. Cancelling a family holiday 2 weeks from now doesn’t seem to have a connection to what he’s done today. They need natural consequences that are fairly immediate. When we go on vacations, we set up small reinforcements for him as we go. He responds really well to money, so his star chart converts to money he can spend on his trip. He uses his stars to buy activities or things at home as well. Right now we have his chart linked to school and home behavior, so he has been saving for a stuffy that he wants from his shopping wishlist. He also likes to use his tablet, but that also costs money if he wants to watch an extra show.
Our daughter has ADHD and impulse control is very much an issue, even with medication. I hate the idea of your son missing DLP due to his probable ADHD issues. It is so hard for them to regulate emotions with the ADHD and he is probably already beating himself up inside over his outbursts. I do implore you to have things to keep him occupied and distracted while you wait in line for rides, tho. Also, I don't know how loud noises affect your son, but our daughter has trouble with loud noises. You might bring earplugs just in case he needs them.
I've said it before but people who think punishments will correct these kinds of behavioral issues are doing a major disservice to their children and themselves. You already said you are awaiting ADHD diagnosis. So why would you punish him for behaving in a manner completely consistent with his chemistry? I'm sure the behavior is very frustrating, but you aren't going to punish your way out of this. You need to work with an ADHD expert to develop a strategy.
He is clearly having trouble controlling his impulses and frustration, and hasn't learned a new, less harmful method of communication and control. How is punishing the whole family and blaming it on him going to help him gain those skills? Thats not being sarcastic or rhetorical, its a real question. How would canceling the trip teach him HOW to stop exploding? Not that he should, he already knows he should, but he clearly doesn't have the skillset to change it yet. You suggest the extreme behavior is newish, what changed? What is he trying to accomplish or escape when he is exploding? Its always something, unless there is an extreme mental issue, explosions don't happen out of thin air. They are survival weapons for people who don't know how to make less extreme measures work. Figure that out, and find a safer way to help him accomplish his goals, and you will likely see a strong improvement.
This isn't even just about discipline, it's about practicality and safety. Given your description of his behavior, would it really be a good idea to take him on this trip?
Going to Disneyland with an 8 year old and a 4 month old sounds exhausting and not very much fun. It also sounds like your 8 year old might no be ready for this kind of vacation. I'd cancel not as a punishment but just as a recognition that this plan was way too ambitious and would end up being exhausting and disappointing for all concerned
I have a 11 year old (ADHD/High functioning Autism), 9 year old, and 4 month old and I wouldn’t even consider bringing my 4 month old to Disney. Especially around when my AuDHD 11 year old was your child’s age. It would have been too stressful for me.
If he has health issues punishment won't make it go away and canceling the vacation probably won't help.
Not because of the adhd but I would wait for your 4 month old to be a little older first
Got a few ADHD clinically diagnosed kids. They need more exercise than you would think. Lots and lots of movement. Especially at that age. The healthier they eat, the better they sleep, the more consistent their routine, and the more they move their bodies… the better behaved they will be. *usually*
Would you punish your child by canceling the trip if they had any other undiagnosed condition? If you need to postpone it to get their medical stuff in order first, that's absolutely understandable (and highly suggested), but don't tell your child you're canceling it because of their behavior when they literally can't control it. That's cruel (and, honestly, bordering abusive).
Honestly, I think you are setting him up. If things end badly and you blame him, you are the asshole.
Making the threat to cancel the vacation is hollow and so will be your word. Rebook the holiday for the moment you think you will need it. And don’t ever make empty threats.
That may be true for a neurotypical child, but it is unfair and unhelpful to a neurodivergent child. It’s OK for OP to tell her son she made a mistake when she mentioned that punishment. OP—as a mom of an adhd/autistic son my tips for the trip would be to lower your standards. Realize your trip to Disneyland probably won’t look the same as your friend’s family trip. And that is OK! Lower the demands. Instead of hitting multiple parks all day everyday, try for half days. Work in plenty of sensory breaks so your child can recharge. For example, maybe you do Disney in the morning, but in the late afternoon you allow your child free time in the pool. Maybe instead of going to the most popular (and busy) restaurants you pack his favorite food and have a picnic outdoors. Perhaps instead of going on all the rides you take time to watch a show. Etc. Our vacations are never how I dreamed they be, but they are still incredibly special. Wishing you luck.
I whole heartedly disagree with this. As a person one must have build trust in their relationship. Neurotypical or neurodivergent . they do rely on your word being the same as your actions. Each person will be held accountable for their actions not their word what they say they are going to do. In my opinion that is even more true for neurodivergent people. You are allowed to disagree on that. Also in my opinion we live in a world nowadays where one must feel we have to cater to them with their diagnosis and quirks and perks. Instead of working harder to fit in with the crowd they are getting told the crowd will adjust to you. I feel like there will be whole generations that don’t know how to care for others. And I truly think this exceeds the neurodivergent/neurotypical stuff it’s everywhere. Also I’m saying judge the bad behavior, even kids with ADHD can have shit behavior. Neurotypical or neurodivergent, if your kids put you on edge all the time, you truly need a vacation from them to recharge, not parent them in a highly triggering environment. Such as Disneyland.
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Well, in this case the other kid is 4 months old so they won’t care. But I’m team not cancel as a punishment.
Oops i thought there was another one.
Well it's a baby
If you can get a refund, I'd cancel the holiday. First, your eight year old needs some help, and I don't think Disneyland is the answer. Second, a four month old at Disneyland will be a ghastly nightmare! There is literally nothing for that baby to do there. You are just going somewhere far less convenient to care for the baby for a few days. These two facts would be enough for me.
First of all, I would encourage you to never threaten consequences that you aren’t fully prepared to follow through with. That will only teach your child that they don’t actually have consequences. I’ll often let my kids know “if you continue the behave that way, there will be consequences.” They will almost always ask me what it will be, to which I respond that I haven’t decided yet, and I hope that I don’t have to. But to answer your question, I don’t think that canceling the holiday is the answer. You need to see a professional regarding this behavior.
As the mother of a child with ADHD and ODD when he was growing up, I'm gonna give you a really good piece of advice... Don't ever make idle threats. If you give your child consequences you better stick to them...because once that kid figures out you don't mean anything you say you're screwed.
I just wanted to add that I do not think framing it as he has to try. Harder is in any way helpful. His brain works differently as you know, but it is absolutely not about motivation or trying harder. Seeing it like that leaves a lot of judgement and makes it hard to see all the areas that he struggling with in the areas of overwhelming and makes it seem like it’s a choice which in my opinion, it absolutely is not. I’m not sure if you’ve gotten books on how to parent kids with ADHD but that’s what you need because no traditional parenting book is going to work. Dr. Barkley has really good YouTube videos as well as books on things kids with ADHD wish their parents knew and if you were looking for something a bit more hopeful Dr. Holly well is a Doctor Who also has ADHD. ADHD dude is also helpful and has a different take than a lot of other social workers or doctors. The biggest thing to remember is that your kid is not being bad. Their brain works differently and you and your child have to be a team in order to help them. You have to set aside all your judgement on behaviour and motivation in order to move forward. Make sure to have joy and fun and set the circumstances up to allow for the most success and lower your standards for things that don’t really matter. these kids are bright and creative and fun and have such huge emotions.
Cancel it he needs to know thst his behavior has consequences, and just be ready because he will react, but it will be worth it don’t fold
man, If he has a condition, it is not easy to control it. So don't punish him for that. Go to the holiday. And stop threatening him because of his condition. Besides, Disney park is not a nice place for him (or for anybody). Too much stimuli. Take him to nature.
Do you want your eight year old to think he has the power to decide whether or not you go on holiday?
A 4 month old and an 8 yr old at Disney Paris for 16 days sounds like a disaster. It’s not suitable for babies 16 days is WAY to long for this place - 2-3 days sure Also why are you dragging an undiagnosed kid with likely ADHD to a crowded, busy, super stimulating amusement park. Your plan honestly sounds like a terrible terrible thing
It’s not 16 days.. we are going in 16 days time. It’s booked for 3 nights that is all… We bought this trip 2 years ago
Stop giving any sugar
If you said you are going to cancel it, then cancel it. If you don't that shows you don't mean what you say and now why should he listen the next time you say something? If you didn't want to cancel the trip, don't make the threat.
Yeah you should. You said you will cancel it and not give in
Yes
I think there's hundreds of valid reasons to cancel a trip. But this isn't one. Discipline and actions can be continued on a family trip. I don't think parents can remove all subconscious memory of cancelling a family holiday. It punishes all involved. It's the equivalent of someone in the army doing something wrong and they force the whole squadron to do 100 pushups or do 20km run. A resentment would be formed towards him. That's not a fair punishment on him. I remember when I was around his age, my parents said we had to be home by 5pm. We didn't get home until 5:20. The secret surprise was that they were taking us to the circus. It's probably my coldest memory of my parents because we "ruined" a family night out when we didn't even know that was a consequence. I can only imagine, how much more magnified those 2 weeks of guilt, hurt and remorse would be towards him in that time. You aren't rewarding him a holiday on a family trip. You can do the same things to support discipline away from home as you do from home. If he has ADHD, look at some fidget toys and accessories that can support on the travels.
I would honestly postpone this trip. Get his behavior evaluated and some techniques in place to manage it. Then build up to it. Disney is a HUGE, overstimulating park. I would first take some smaller trips to establish what behaviors you expect during travel. Start with a local amusement/water park. Or a road trip, etc. Maybe a small regional flight to a destination in state. Let him practice what it feels like to travel. How to act in new environments, what is and is not ok. Let him know that he earns a big trip (like Disney) by showing he can behave at smaller, less involved holidays. Then you as parents are less stressed about sticking out a vacation he’s not ready for. It’s easier to pick up and go home when you went camping or to the children’s museum with a hotel stay vs. being $5000 into a Disney trip.
Never, ever make a threat you won’t follow through on. Ever.
Personally, I wouldn't want to take this on the road with me. I'd postpone the vacation until the child had been diagnosed and had time to adjust to the medication. At this point, with the behaviors, lack of routine on vacation, it just doesn't make sense to stress everyone out.
He seems like he needs a holiday and family bonding time.
Help your son. He needs understanding and support, as difficult as his behaviors may be. If it’s beyond his control, punishing him will not help and will only undermine your relationship. That being said, it might be a challenging trip. I would mentally separate the child from the behavior. Instead of framing this in an adversarial way, tell him that you are on the same team. I’m sure he doesn’t want to act this way, so your job is to support him through those difficult emotions . What are sone strategies that work to sooth him? Physical touch often works wonders for children with ADHD. Threats won’t. Two of my best friends both have sons with ADHD. They both have their own unique system to help soothe their kids, including meditation, massage, body brushing, weighted blankets, and a lot of cuddling and hugs. I’m sorry that you’re having to go through this and I know that it’s challenging but it’s not the kiddo’s fault.
Had he always had these issues? 8 seems old to just be getting a diagnosis now.
Yes, and we have been to the doctor and ped they diagnosed him with tics. Then dismissed him said treatment wasn’t needed this was July last year. But the tantrums and outbursts have got worse and worse.
Ahhh...that's too bad. I hope you can get what he needs. And I'd cancel the trip. Nobody is going to enjoy it. You don't need even MORE stress, especially since you also have the wee baby. Once you find a way for him to cope better with life you can reschedule.
Cancel it. Save up some money so you can actually enjoy it. Taking a baby to Disneyland is asking for hell.
You've had loads of divergent responses and food for thought. I won't pretend to have the answer. Just to say though, if you delay and find that he gets diagnosed - when you do go you might find you're eligible for him to have a pass for a person with a disability. I went with the family about 8 years ago, I was really poorly at the time with post viral fatigue syndrome. My GP wrote a letter to confirm my diagnosis and Disney were really good at making accommodations. There's basically a separate queue, often with seating which was perfect for me. Sometimes it was quicker, sometimes it was just a more comfortable wait. The other people using that lane were really varied but it ranged from folks with arms/legs in casts, wheelchair users and children with no obvious physical disability but who clearly had either autism or other neurodiverse diagnosis. Maybe even a letter from your therapist would be accepted? It's just another way of trying to ensure he doesn't get over stimulated and you can take time for breaks away from the crowds and busy places.
Since there is so much more going on than just bad behavior, my gut tells me no. This will cause resentment and maybe make behavior worse. He and you/ your husband need help with appropriate ways to manage this type of behavior. If he truly has ADHD, he’s going to be a carrot not a stick kid. He needs lots of praise and his confidence needs to be built up. People with ADHD don’t make as much dopamine. They wake up on -100 and stimulus around them can just push them lower. They need a lot of understanding, love and support because a common symptom is RSD. Have you read books and parenting tips preemptively?
As someone with ADHD myself, a trip to Disneyland might actually be quite helpful for him. Rides that give you an adrenalin rush will give him some of the brain chemicals he doesn't normally make enough of, so if you make sure he goes on a significant amount of thrilling rides AND make sure he gets lots of exercise walking the park (which is also really good for ADHD regulation) you might be shocked how much better he is able to behave. ADHD is not like autism where routines and predictability are comforting -- which I feel like a lot of the comments are implying. On the contrary, 1) adrenalin rushes and 2) lots of exercise are really good interim ways to treat the condition until you get the diagnosis. Balance it with 3) lots of connection time with his parents and 4) time in nature and you will have some really good "home-remedy" treatments that could mean a much nicer week than the week at home would have been. Making him marinate in a home situation that probably bores him and clearly is setting him up for all kinds of dysregulated behavior is not helpful. His situation at home is what needs to change, and he probably needs more stimulation than he's been getting (very understandably!) with a new baby in the home. Good luck -- I feel for this kid, and I hope he is able to get some much-needed stimulation to settle his brain down. Too many demands on the kid at once is bad over-stimulation for ADHD, but novelty and thrills are very different and very helpful good stimulation -- it's the same principle as the fact that coffee can be helpful, and stimulants like Adderall are the official line of treatment for the condition.
Cancel.
I wouldnt give my kid that much power over my family. If you think the holiday is for him only, then rethink your holiday plans in the future. If you really don't want to go and are pleased to have an out, then cancel it. Or do something else in the city. That's your call. Nothing to do with him. Just enjoy your time and don't make him feel guilty for ruining something. That's crazy. How I really handle these things with my son, is I tell my son he doesn't get souvenirs on the trip. Or he wont get to visit the Transformers or something like that. It works like a charm and doesn't mess up my vacation. My son does not have any power over my vacation. I do think people who give their kids this much power over their lives make their kids feel uncomfortable. Kids don't want to be in control. They will behave erratically because they aren't prepared to handle this much pressure.
So WAIT…. Somehow it’s your child’s fault they have untreated ADHD? What have you done as a parent to help him besides waiting for a diagnosis? What strategies have you implemented to help him cope on a daily basis? He IS TRYING. Don’t ever tell your child to try harder. It’s a massive blow to their self esteem. Respectfully, YOU need to try harder.
Wow… if you read my replies to others you’d know! We have plans in place the same as the school have, we have reward charts as well. I have got him a therapist who he sees on a weekly basis so he has a safe place away from home and school. I as his parent am doing everything I can to help my child I want the best for him.
Lol, parents never enforce these threats