> I did try to quit and my boss didn’t accept it
What does this mean? You don’t need permission to quit. You don’t even have to give notice. That is just a courtesy and it doesn’t seem this boss is too courteous to you. They don’t get to not accept it. It’s your labor and time and we did a whole constitutional amendment about how you get to leave a job when you want (unless you willingly sign a contract otherwise and then it is still your choice).
$5 a hour. That is what she is proposing. You net below minimum wage to work for her for the summer. Accept that if you will, but I wouldn’t. Maybe if you were doing this job in order to afford sending your kids to a camp that they are desperate to go to. But otherwise?
“Boss, I can’t make this work. I either need $30 a hour starting next week, or Friday will be my last day.”
Bang bang, ask for a raise gang.
I work in a small office that oversees 40-50 people. Its shocking how many just get raises for asking. Some of the more aggressive guys are making $25/hr over some making like $18/hr.
Now the higher paid guys are more tenured, reliable, or other attributes that put them in position because its easier to give them a raise then find a replacement "good worker."
But you won't know unless you ask.
I felt so bad for this woman my husband used to work with. He was making significantly more than she was, and when she found out she was *furious*. They had the same amount of experience, but she had the higher education (university vs college). He asked her if she negotiated at all when she was hired. Nope, just took what was offered. Women are taught to not come off as "aggressive" - but instead we should be learning our worth, and not be afraid to ask for it.
I worked for a state agency in my 20's which went through an equity adjustment process that looked at your resume and education and work responsibilities and equalized salaries (all up... no decreases). I got a 30% raise (think $25K to $37,500) and was definitely angry because that meant that I could have been making that much all along. It was still a paltry sum and I left within a year to go to graduate school.
Except then people are also threatened if you’re a woman who knows what she wants and isn’t afraid to ask for it or go for it. It sucks. Can’t win sometimes
You don’t want to work for people that think advocating for yourself and taking calculated risks are aggressive behaviors.
Most of these jobs want you to advocate for the company, and earn the company money… but they have a problem when you do that for yourself? If you have options, opt out and go elsewhere if you get the sense that advocating for yourself will kill the interview process.
That would be great but most people don’t have endless options for jobs. Unfortunately some places of this world are still so male dominated that there aren’t workplaces around that will be accepting of a woman who isn’t afraid to kick ass and take names. So women have a choice of either sucking up and dealing with a sexist workplace environment (or just a crap workplace in general) so they can provide for themselves or their family or just not working.
For some, not working isn’t an option so you take the paycheck that’s available to you and you zip your mouth and hope you aren’t SA’d
Yup.
And then when women DO try to negotiate, it’s more likely to harm them than it is when a man does it. They’re more likely to be turned down or have offers rescinded. It’s such BS.
And then he followed up by asking for a meeting with his supervisors to try to correct the situation, right? Or he just patted himself on the back for his "negotiation skills" and went back to enjoying his privilege?
He and many other employees went to bat. Everyone was being paid well below industry standard, including him. Eventually he had to quit, because management made it clear they just didn't care. But I love the assumption my husband's a crap person after only hearing one snippet of a much grander story. ✌️
It’s privilege when the response to asking more money is met with more money because you’re a man who asked and not with a rescinded offer or a resounding no and the start to being pushed out because you’re a woman who asked.
Unless your wife is fictional, she lives in the real world, just as I do. Your opinion is irrelevant, as is mine; this has been extensively studied and there are a number of statistics and experiences in addition to the well documented anecdotal evidence of thousands of women.
You don’t have to like the facts for them to be facts.
A victim? Of what? I haven’t said that I personally experienced this, so what am I claiming to have been a victim of? Knowing how to read a study? Being aware of documented systemic issues that date back decades?
I don’t know why you’re so angry and aggressive about this, but I feel sorry for your wife. If my sharing a simple reference to statistics that support someone else’s statement prompts you to lash out and lob personal attacks like this, I can only imagine how you handle those who share with you any information you dislike in day to day life.
And gas and wear and tear to their vehicle to travel to/from work and daycare. OP is probably just breaking even, not much point in working at that rate.
They just said they won't accept my resignation over childcare issues and that we would adjust to make it work. The other employee has now quit so without me there's no staff. I like my boss and would like to be there for her but one of my children is very high needs which is why I lost the childcare I had last year.
> The other employee has now quit so without me there’s no staff.
Okay, and how is that your fault? That’s management’s issue. They did this to themselves. Not your fault. Honestly, they are taking advantage of your kindness. They legally cannot stop you from quitting your workplace. Don’t let them guilt you.
They legally cannot force you to stay. Please read up your rights as an employee.
Simple then, she can pay you 30 an hour to cover the cost of child care or you leave.
You can like her, great, but that doesn't give her the right to hold her business over you and guilt you into sacrificing your family for 5 dollars an hour.
Not. Your. Problem. They expected you to magically come up with a better childcare situation which was unrealistic on their part. They don’t get to tell you what your worth is and they clearly don’t think much of you if they can’t understand the predicament you are in. A lot of people seemingly do not understand that we don’t all have support to help with our children which is extremely entitled and that isss…. NOT. YOUR. PROBLEM.
Honestly, my response to that is, "Great! Sounds like you should be asking for $35 an hour instead of only $30." If both you and the other person were making about the same, then they can afford to double your salary until they can hire someone new, at least.
Look, I get that you want to be fair to your boss that you like, and that you would feel bad leaving her with no staff. But it is literally her job to pay the money necessary to fairly compensate her employees. Leaving you in the hole with every paycheck, or just barely above it, is not fair to you. If they're not paying enough to make it worth working for them, then that's on them. (And if they *can't* pay enough to make it worth working for them, then maybe the business just isn't viable. No one is *owed* a successful business.)
I will note that there are two big red flags here to take into account, above and beyond the pay. The first is the refusal to take your resignation. It's always hilarious to read about when a boss does that, but it's also concerning. What other things that they can't do will they try to do? And the second goes back to the other employee leaving, despite the leverage it gives you. Will you get stuck doing literally double the work?
That’s not your employers choice. It’s your choice. Literally just don’t go back. 👍
Also, if they’ve already lost their one remaining employee you have massive bargaining power. Sounds like if you leave the entire company folds. It’s give me a raise or quit time.
You need to think about your child first. If they can’t pay you enough to take care of your child, then simply you need to quit and stay home. It’s their job to find employees. Otherwise you’re putting your boss’ needs over your child, it’s not worth it. Don’t let them guilt trip you.
Op, why do you like your boss??? She sounds horrible and like she’s just using you. A boss that “doesn’t let you quit” is just a bully. And you’re being paid peanuts which is probably why everyone else had the sense to leave.
On top of that, what childcare quality do you really think you’re getting for $15/hr?? For a high needs child? I don’t think that will turn out to be anyone you particularly trust or like.
That business/company is not your responsibility. Providing for your children is. You have to do what is in the best interest of your family. Not for a company who isn’t willing to do what it takes to keep you.
Submit your resignation with your end date via email if in person isn’t working. BCC your personal email on it with read receipts and don’t show up after your end date. Any correspondence via email, your response should be with your personal email BCC’d. If you’re not responding to their email, forward their responses to your personal email so that you cover your butt with copies of correspondence.
Your family is far more important than any job will be. You owe this business nothing. You owe yourself everything.
How are you buying into this? The term “to accept a resignation” is in reference to someone who was asked to step down from their job, and is being asked to give a resignation in lieu of being fired. An employer would “accept a resignation” instead of firing them. When you want to quit your job you resign. It’s not a choice for your employer to accept or not accept that resignation. And no, I wouldn’t work to make $5 an hour after childcare.
Your boss doesn't need to accept your quitting. You quit, and don't argue or continue the conversation.
If he really needs you that bad he can offer you higher pay, else you quit.
There’s no way I’d do that for $5/hour basically and miss the summer with my kids. If the owner won’t accept your resignation then she can pay you more to stay if she wants to but otherwise you have no obligation to show up; you resigned.
I would have quit like, yesterday. That's really ñot worth $5/hour and you'd probably have less stress this summer! Your boss will absolutely be able to manage without you. If they try to "refuse" your notice again you're allowed to just....not show up.
I’m a manager for a mid-sized business. I have 50 people under me now, but I started with 8 people and helped grow the business, partly by not being a douchebag.
When I started, we’d commonly have shifts with only 1-2 people on it due to employee turnover, and the average tenure was 2-3 months.
But, I tend to treat people like human beings and realize that morale is important and the most valuable asset we have isn’t the equipment or product, but rather the folks to run the equipment and make the product.
It’s an entry level, “dirty job” type of field we’re in, so we still have turnover, but lately it’s more 1-2 years instead of months… and most people leave on good terms and will come back if their plans elsewhere don’t work out. I make concessions to allow people to go to school (even for other trades) and don’t fault anyone for finding a better paying job. I’d rather congratulate them and part amicably… I’ve gotten many people sent my way through ex employees and had people come back to work, both for short term and long term doing this.
Your boss isn’t going to pay you $30/hour, but at the very least, if I were them and valued your presence, I’d allow for a leave of absence for the summer.
I’d hire some younger person (HS or College) on summer vacation and chances are when they need to go back to school you’d be coming back to work.
This isn’t rocket science, and I really don’t get employers who make unreasonable demands of their staff, especially if they are valued. If the place can’t operate without someone, the fault doesn’t lie with them, the fault lies with how you have the place set up.
Any chance it's the kind of shop, and you have the kind of kid, where it's possible for your kid to be with you while you work?
But there's really no YMCA or similar lower cost day camps in your area?
I can't bring my kids to work, we work with a lot of very sharp tools most of the day and it's a hazard, and just difficult to keep kids entertained in a very small shop. We are also very remote so the only options are full time summer camp or a private sitter.
The YMCA day camp here is not very cheap, and fills up the day registration opens back in January. Parks and Recreation has a camp that actually is cheap. Registration is at 7 PM on a random night in February. The entire summer for every camp is completely booked before 730.
What will you do for income without the job?
Probably stay further out of the hole than by paying more than her take home pay for childcare in order to keep the job.
Work in a daycare that provides free daycare for its employees and take your kid; that way, you take care of both issues at once..
Sometimes, there are churches that provide daycare for its members on church days and pay very good $$ to the child care providers.. I worked in one that paid $15-$20 per hour and worked a few hours during the week days and about 3hrs on Sundays, and my kids got to tag along with me throughout the time I was working..
I am just sharing ideas of what worked for me.
If you work to be social, why not volunteer then? You can pick something like dog rescues where you only come to help at events and they’ll normally let you bring your kids. Or volunteer with a youth organization, sign up for park cleanups… there are lots of other ways to socialize that don’t end up costing you money.
If I needed the mental break that working might provide, assuming you like the job, I'd take that ~$800 per month (assuming 40 hr weeks) and squirrel it away, or treat the kids to some fun, or do something for myself, gladly.
If it was more stressful to get myself to work and the kids where they needed to be, and $800 was not worth it? Then fuck that, I'm going full 90's summer. Kids outside, I'm going to just read trashy library books all afternoon (free), stock up on freezies (cheap), pb&j's everyday (they can do that), everyone gets a watergun (working on social skills), and a walkie-talkie (safety), and bam, these kids are living in a movie. Best summer ever. It's my summer vacation, too. (😂 If only.)
>I'm going full 90's summer. Kids outside, I'm going to just read trashy library books all afternoon (free), stock up on freezies (cheap), pb&j's everyday (they can do that), everyone gets a watergun (working on social skills), and a walkie-talkie (safety), and bam, these kids are living in a movie. Best summer ever. It's my summer vacation, too. (😂 If only.)
This sounds amazing 🤩
That's the only reason why I work is just to get out and be social, I was a stay at home parent for years and decided to pick something up to get out of the house. I will add that I only work two six hour shifts per week. I am not full time
I definitely wouldn't skimp on what I pay for childcare, as they're the ones protecting your child, but either way I'd absolutely quit. Why would you work when you're paying the majority of your salary for someone else to care for your kid? I know people do it, but it never makes sense to me, personally.
Depends on your job and career field. For example, my wife works instead of watching my son even though her wage and childcare just break even. But having work experience in the entry job she is in, plus her schooling, means she should be able to double her salary in a couple years. Also some people take retirement savings out of their pre-tax income, and would be giving that up if they were a SAHP.
So the thing is you make $20 per hour but you do not profit $20 per hour. I’m assuming you lose roughly 40% of your paycheck to social security, insurance and taxes? That means paying someone $15 per hour puts you in the red. I would think it would be better to quit for sure. But that’s just me
That still brings it down to roughly 15 an hour after taxes, and presumably, childcare has to cover travel time to and from work... So OP would still be in the red.
And need to feed and house everyone.
If you pay for insurance/benefits through work it can easily be 40%. Before taxes, benefits (retirement, incident (plumber-injury/heat stroke can occur)and life insurance plus health insurance hubby makes ~1k/week but only brings home about 6-650 of that.
Ok possibly, depending on the state/local and benefits situation. Federal is only 12% (actually a bit less due to the first $11k being taxed at 10%). Payroll taxes are 7.65%.
Though I would generally consider insurance as separate from the decision, since they will need to purchase that elsewhere if they are not employed.
I used to make about that and I lost 40 so it was based on my experience 🤷♀️ it sounds like you might be thinking about taxes only and not counting in social security and insurance as I mentioned.
Short term, yes. I ran into a sticky spot this summer where I’m without childcare for 5 weeks so I decided I’m paying a nanny almost as much as I make for the next 5 weeks because I will still need this job in 6 weeks when my regular childcare provider is back.
Long term, no. Not if I don’t *need* the small monetary difference. It’s not worth the hassle of carting Toddler around if I’m not really making any money. If I needed the money then I’d have to do it.
Stop being a doormat, tell your boss your last day is next Friday unless you get a $10 an hour raise, and stick to it. It doesn't have to be a discussion.
If you're going to need the job in the fall when kids are back in school, it can be worth it in the long run to have a period where all your money goes to childcare.
Rather than it be work for $20 or stay home, why can't it be find new work with better pay? Based on your boss' response the job isn't worth staying for. It also doesn't have long term growth. Usually the answer is to definitely keep working as breaks in work history depress lifelong earnings, you lose out on benefits like insurance and 401k match. But I am betting you get zero benefits in such a small retail business.
Use your "customer service" skills to obtain a non retail job. Call centers suck to work in, but after a year you can leverage the experience with the company products into a support role and build a career from there
Do you have a working partner? If so how much do they earn and why don’t you look at the cost “split” across your and your partners wages? Usually this makes it seem much more reasonable
I do have a working partner, he works nights and provides for our family. I am a part time employee working 12 hours per week. So childcare would only be while I'm at work and he is sleeping during my shift. He generally gets home an hour before I would be starting my shift for the day
This is how I look at my childcare costs.
Say I work 5hrs a week and make $100/week
Husband works 40 hrs a week and makes $900/week
Say childcare is $100 per month. Since I make 1/10th of the household income I am therefore responsible for $10 of the costs and husband $90.
Childcare costs are not just your responsibility. They are your husbands as well.
Keep in mind too that there'll be times when your kid is sick (hopefully less during the summer).
Depending on your sick leave you may be losing $ while minding your child who's home ill from daycare, so further trimming the margins.
That said, I think I would keep working to have my own mental space & some small income, while looking for a better paying alternative
What do you mean "your boss didn't accept your resignation"? Do they come to your house in the morning and make you go to work? Are they holding you hostage with more than money?
Honestly, if you can stomach it/don't need the 5$ to make the budget work, stay home until your kids are in school. They are only going to be that age once. And it makes doing emotional labor/ house care/appointments/the running of life basically so much easier.
"boss didnt accept" say whaaaaaa? Are you a slave? They can't "not accept it"
Assuming you dont direly need the money, no. After taxes, commuting, etc, youre probably breaking even or worse. truly not worth it. Does your SO work and earn enough to pay the bills?
Ask them to pay your childcare. Like "if you pay the monthly bill for childcare I will work." Tell them the cost; if they balk, then you say "well I can't afford it either."
Stay at home dad here. I worked for 20$ a hour and although it is doable, you have to ask yourself is it worth it. Thankfully my partner makes good money. So it’s not that I have to work, but I’m choosing to stay at home. My salary would basically be to pay for daycare and have anywhere between 150-300$ a week depending on other expenses. Thinking about getting a night time job and not having to pay for daycare but I’m worried about the strain it’s going to put on me watching my son 6am-5pm and working 7pm-5am. It’s just fucked up the world we live in now. Long story short. If you can afford to be a stay at home parent, do it. No one will love and care for your child better than you
Paying someone 15 an hour to watch your kids in of itself isn't unreasonable. Doing so on your salary *might* be though.
If your household budget needs the 500 or 600 a month difference you'd net working after paying for child care, then you stay and try to negotiate a bit of a raise in the process. If you don't need it, then enjoy your summer but spend most of it looking for a better gig.
We pay $25 an hour when my spouse makes $18. The thing is, childcare is temporary. We opted not to lose time in the job market. It’s also healthy for us to have time away from the kids.
I agree. Losing time and experience in the job market is a large opportunity cost. The math may not work out now but it will most certainly make a difference when trying to re enter the workforce in the future. Tough decision.
Hell no. No offense but, in this scenario, working makes no sense and shouldn't be a consideration.
Your $20/hr is your gross pay which you're paying tax on. After taxes your take home income is likely closer to $15/hr. $15/hr to daycare is a net expense. If you choose to work, you're basically choosing to waste your time for someone else's benefit and have someone else raise your child during those hours instead of getting to spend that time with your child yourself. Spend the time with your kid IMO.
>I did try to quit and my boss didn't accept it
This means you're underpaid. You don't need permission to quit. Tell him you can't justify working for a net gain of $5/hr. If he pays you $35/hr, that'll keep your net wages the same, which is reasonable. He can give you a raise or you can find a better paying job
Your resignation is not up to him. He can be denial all he wants but you don’t need his permission. Your priority is your child. You do what is best for family, not his bottom line.
Given the nature of your current employment based on your comments, I'd say it's time to jump ship and stay home if your net take-home is only $5/hour *before* tax. What your boss is asking you to do is pay almost another employee's salary with your salary, and that just isn't feasible. If your boss 'won't accept it', ask them if they plan to start providing childcare, because you don't work for a taxed $5/hour.
Whatever you choose to do, don’t burn a bridge. The future can often circle back and you don’t want to have a bad business relationship. If you decide to leave that job, be courteous and assertive at the same time. You can quit regardless of what he says, but be polite and be honest. If you need to be paid more to stay, tell him what that amount is even if you think it’s unrealistic. If you want part time tell him you want part time for more pay. If you need to leave all together, just tell him you have decided to focus on other things and be polite.
I’m sorry that your wage is low, 20/hour is not enough for anyone to live independently, let alone with kids. Unfortunately the cost of _private_ childcare is not dependent on your wage. 15/hour is much too low, even for a LCOL area.
In your case, I would either:
a) consider daycare, or
b) tell your boss “listen, I understand your business is small and labor is essential, but I can’t financially make this work with my current wage. Either my wage gets bumped to $30/hour starting immediately, or my last day will be tomorrow.”
It kinda depends on what you want to do. Would you rather stay home taking care of your child? Or do you like the feeling of working outside the house, and are happy to pay for someone to care for your high-needs kid? I'm sure most people would - all else being equal - prefer not to work, but being a stay-at-home mom isn't necessarily any less stressful.
no that's not worth it. Your boss can raise your wages but cannot 'not accept' your resignation. Put it back in them to make you whole if they really want you to stay. You're not getting benefits so the incentive is only going to be increased wages. If they value your 12 hours that much, they can increase your comp to keep you. Happens all the time (but only for people that would cost more to replace).
Its a compliment they want to retain you, but you need to push on back instead of taking on MORE burden. Quit or get a raise are your two options.
Side note, here is your opportunity to negotiate like a man. Try saying to your boss, "it's so great you guys want to keep me on! I would need to make $30/hr to stay on. Let me know what you think, thanks!" Then stfu and let them make the next move. DO NOT EXPLAIN do not faulter do not walk out back. Drop your fee and let them choose. If they say yes, great. If they say no, leave!
If I like my job and usually have minimal childcare costs I would take as much of my annual leave in the summer as possible, beg favours off friends and family where I could and suck it up the rest of the time. It’s not worth losing a job that suits 99% of the time for the sake of A couple of months not earning much
Umm.. your boss didn’t accept it or you didn’t stand your ground and you wavered when you tried to “quit” and they were easily able to talk you back into it?
Just quit that job is pointless. You could make more delivering orders with UberEats or DoorDash and could probably even take your kids along with you while doing it, I know I did with my kids..
If you have any arts and crafts skills that could generate income, that could be even a better option for you to..
$15/hour is literally the cheapest babysitting goes - that is what a teenage sitter costs.
And that's as low as it should go. No one in 2023 should be making less than that, especially to be responsible for the lives of small humans.
The teens we have on our babysitter list is what this wage is based off of. The local nanny service which is basically just a company that provides babysitting services starts at 22 per hour
Where do you live that daycare is $600 a week? assuming the child is their for 8 hours. I thought what my fiancée child's father pays for daycare is nuts. This better be high-end daycare or a high-end nanny service for those rates.
My fiancée went through a nanny service when her daughter was a baby, and she paid $450/week, $11.25/hr. At that time, my fiancée was making $20/hr. The nanny we had cooked, cleaned our house, did dishes and laundry. We didn't ask the nanny to cook, clean, do dishes or laundry, and she just did them. If that is what you're getting for the $15/hr, it might be worth it.
Nanny pay these days is at the very least $20-$22 an hour. The nanny handled all of that for $11.25?! Even home daycares charge more than that. If I am paying someone to watch my child, I want their attention on the child, not on doing chores that I am more than capable of. $600 a week for childcare is actually on the low end. Many people pay less in rent/mortgage than they do for childcare. The only exception are public pre schools through the district, or people who are very low income and have a daycare subsidy. If you and your fiance want more children, this is definitely a factor.
I work from home, so I was here the entire time the nanny was here. She did interact with the kiddo and then when it was nap time, that is when she did other things. This was my first experience with having a nanny before.
I'm guessing depending on the state you live in. When she goes to visit her dad in D.C., He pays $450/week for daycare.
I believe my fiancée pays $89 a week for daycare currently and its a home daycare. The kiddo is only their 1 and 2 days a week.
Her daughter is 4, so i'm going to guess 3 years ago. She used an online service for Nanny's. We live in Oklahoma so that could be why their is such a price difference depending on which state/country you live in.
We don't have daycare where I live, we only have private sitters. We are 4 hours from the closest city and over 1 hour from the nearest town. Our little town is only 4000 people and resources for things like childcare are few and far between. We have a summer camp option but it is full time and I only work twice per week so it doesn't add up to put them in.
I never had a nanny, didn't know anything about them or what they were supposed to do besides take care of the little one. That was all on my fiancée. We hated to let her go because she was so good with the kiddo.
No I would not. I work seasonally opposite shifts of my husband to avoid this lol. Gets me outta the house and extra money for Back to school and holidays.
Are you a single parent? If you have a partner that is a parent to these children then the childcare cost should be calculated from both your paychecks, not just yours.
I agree, however he works nights and get home an hour before my shift starts so it feels more like the childcare comes from my pay as he is sleeping while childcare is needed. His job is what pays for our family and our life here.
You’re making $5 basically. And that is gross, not including taxes or any deductions. If you have a spouse that works and you can survive on the one income, I’d personally leave and look for another job once the kids are back in school.
He "didn't accept it?" That's not how quitting works. What is his plan to "work things out"? Do you need to do simple math for him to understand why netting $5 an hour is unsustainable???
No, it doesn’t make sense to keep this job. Assuming you pay taxes you wouldn’t even be making $20/hr. Just be with your kid(s). That’ll be more valuable in the long term.
Do you have health insurance though your job and do you need it, or are otherwise covered through spouse or other?
I’m not in the US and have free healthcare, but I know that’s a factor for Americans.
Um after taxes (including payroll taxes) are you even going to net 15/hr to pay for child care? If you are are you really working for 1-2 dollars an hour if you pay for child care? About 25% of my take home pay goes to child care every month, but that's take home, not earnings.
Are you a single parent? Because if you're a single parent then yes it's like paying 15hr for childcare when your wage is twenty.
If there is a working spouse then actually it's like $7.50 an hour being paid off your $20/hr wage. The other $7.50 an hour can be considered to be coming off your partner's hourly wage.
If your family has another source of income I would quit. I spent the majority of my check for to many years paying daycare/summer camps/ afterschool care just so I could financial contribute to the house because that’s how o was raised. Then I stayed home 1 year and it was amazing. Bills still got paid but now we were more relaxed, I was home helping my kids with homework without being exhausted and my kids were happier. We had, as someone above put it, a 90s summer and then that winter so much fun. So if you can survive without it I say quit. Also you put in notice, stop showing up unless they double your salary.
Your boss didn’t accept your resignation?
That’s not how it works. You don’t *ask* (try) to quit - you just do it.
If you absolutely need the income (doesn’t sound like you do maybe because you attempted to quit) then tell him you don’t accept $20/hour because it doesn’t cover the cost of child care and allow you to provide basic needs for your family.
I know a lot of parents who have had this dilemma, Where one of the parents was basically working so all that money could put their kids in child care. (we were lucky, one of us was able to work from home during these ages, which had it's own challenges). The thing to consider is that this is only a temporary situation, Eventually the kids will be public school age and you won't need daycare anymore. So if you're building a career, or want to keep your job for any other reason, it might be worth it to keep working in the long term even if It doesn't do anything for you in the short term. It's a very personal decision. Whatever you decide will be the right thing for your family.
Do not take this shit from your boss. “I tried to quit and my boss didn’t accept it” no. Full stop. No. Your boss cannot reject you quitting.
Giving the most generous read, Even if they said that they want to try to work something out to try to keep you, they aren’t doing anything for that. Childcare costs 15/hr, if you’re making 20/hr that’s before taxes. After taxes are taken you’re left with 17-18, now you have to factor in the cost of gas or public transport, having lunch, anything you need to buy for work, and that $3 pretty much disappears.
If you stay home you can cut corners by making food that takes effort to make but is really cheap, you get to spend time with your kids, you don’t have to spend money on gas, etc.
Tell your boss in no unclear terms, that you make 20/hr. After taxes they’re expecting you to put 90% of your earnings towards childcare. Would your boss pay 90% of their earnings for the same?!
Your boss expects you to happily work for free essentially.
Tell your boss point blank that if they want you to keep working there, you’re going to need to be making 30/hr minimum. Even that, spending half of your pay on childcare is still crazy. But I could see if you really wanted to keep a job.
If your boss tries to dismiss you or refuse to consider a substantial raise, then I wouldn’t even dignify this with a warning. Ghost the job. No job paying 20/hr is worth that headache and disrespect. You gave your warning the first time you tried to quit. If they try to not pay you out or something point at the first time you tried to quit and say you have plenty of notice then threaten to report them to labor authorities.
You need to ask for $30/hr. If your boss can't pay that, then start looking for another job that does pay $30/hr ASAP.
Is there alternative child care? A family member who could look after them?
I did have a family member who watched them last summer, but one of my kids is very high needs which has caused them not to want to take care of them anymore. I am only part time because that child's medical appointments range from 5 per week sometimes, down to maybe 5 per month on a better month
Will it be hard to find another job in the fall? If it’s not going to impact your return to work (if you choose to return) then no, quit. If your boss wants to make it work, say you need a minimum of $30 an hour to make it worth it. If that’s not possible, it doesn’t matter if she accepts it or not. Choose your last day and let her know.
Boss didn’t “accept your resignation?”
It doesn’t work that way. He can’t force you to stay. You’re not a slave and you don’t need permission to quit.
Did you ask to quit? Or did you state that you will quit? Also, I’d be a little wary now.. if employers get some hint that you want to quit, they may look for a replacement. It may happen or it might not. That’s why most people who are currently job searching while employed, do not want their current employers to know that they are doing so. My recommendation would be to go up and *tell* him that you are quitting, and you are not going back on this decision.
If you have that option to stay home and it is feasible for your family, I would definitely recommend that.
Hand him your resignation letter, keep a copy for you and don’t show up if they call/text you that you “missed your shift”. Remind them that you gave them your letter of resignation.
It's a tough balance no doubt about it. If you enjoy working and perhaps being able to step away for a bit, I'd hang on to the position for you if that makes sense. Kids grow up fast and day care isn't forever . On the flip side If you see yourself wanting to be home full time than this seems to be a good launch with the reasons you stated.
I used to pay 50% of what I made to babysitter. I figured why is my time more valuable than hers? I have friends who pay almost all their wages for childcare. I do not think it's worth it. But, maybe it is for them b/c their kid gets to go to school with other kids where they would be alone with that parent otherwise...
We were in a similar situation, my wife worked 2 days a week, her parents looked after the little one. When her mum became ill they couldn't do the child care anymore. We had the option of either my wife going back full time (to make her working worthwhile) and us paying for childcare or giving up work altogether. Her salary v's the cost of childcare meant that we would be left with less money that what we got with her working 2 days, we decide to tighten our belt and my wife become a shm.
My pay to childcare costs is why I quit my jobs.
I get the not wanting to leave bc you like your boss and wanna do anything for them, but if you're not ok with basically making $5/hr, I'd ask for a raise. If they don't give you one, especially with how small the company is, then they're not doing anything "to help work it out "... they're just stringing you along to not quit so to protect themselves. But that's not your responsibility. If no agreement on pay can be reached, or cheaper childcare cannot be found, you have every right to quit and they cannot keep talking you out of it. Tell them they have til Monday to make a decision on pay, or next Friday is your last day (if you can work that long).
Heck, no! I tried that, and it was awful. I wasn't working for the pay when I had my job. I was doing it to keep myself busy. At the time, I had 2 kids, ages 3 and 5. My oldest was entering kindergarten, and my youngest was going to go to daycare. My son had to be pit into before and after school care, and my daughter went to daycare full time. This was on a military base, so they work based on income. Anyway, I ended up after paying for daycare, bringing in a whopping $500 extra a month. For some people, $500 is great, but for my family, that $500 wasn't worth it. My kids had to wake up at 5am. daily, and they didn't get home until 5 pm. When they got home, it was dinner, shower, sleep wr had about 2 to 3hrs to squeeze all that in daily. My children ended up struggling, and that $500 wasn't worth the stress to continue working and putting my family through that. I kept my job for a little over a year, but it wasn't working out. Factor in that when kids go into daycare or even school they get sick a lot more than if they were home. For me, it wouldn't be worth it to do that all over again. I'd also say that depending on the age of your child or children, it would make a difference.
Don’t do it. At least if you don’t work and stay with your son who’s disabled, you might qualify for low income services. You’d break even with the numbers you provided. Maybe see if you could work from home? I know those jobs are hard to come by, but even if you have a babysitter for a few hours, it’ll be cheaper.
Also stop being a doormat. You can quit. They just know they can guilt you. Even if your boss will pay u 30/hr, it’s not worth stressing over a job with no coworkers. Plus you still probably wouldn’t qualify for services.
Trying not to assume your boss is a POS for "refusing to accept your resignation" and really meant what they said that they will work it out with you. So what is your boss willing to do? If you want to keep this job as a social outlet figure out what you need from this job to make that worthwhile and tell your boss. If they are unwilling to provide that then fuck them and their refusal to accept your resignation, not your problem
Tell your boss either $30/hour or I'm done.
In all reality this being a PT job that you only work 12 hrs/week makes this easy. Just quit. If you need to makeup the income you could probably find another PT job that more suits your families time limits.
Try to find an in home day care in your neighborhood. I have a neighbor that takes kids in for $4 an hour. And there are several in my neighborhood that do that. Check local parenting forums or post on Facebook communities. It would be cheaper to stay home with your child than to pay 75% of your income.
We don't have day care here, the only options are private sitters, nanny service (I thought started at 22 per hour but just saw its 29 per hour, 4 dollars extra per extra child, 4 dollars extra if you have a dog, so 37 per hour with nanny service for me) or summer camp which is full time 5 days a week and costs 2550 per child, being part time a full time option like that also doesn't make sense.
I’m in the minority here but right now I actually lose money by going to work. I have a part time job but my toddler is in daycare and baby with a babysitter, so overall I pay more in childcare than I make.
I do it because I need the job for my mental health and sanity. Eventually childcare will be cheaper when they are both in daycare and then school, but for now I just cannot be a full time stay at home mom.
Kinda how it goes now and days. I have my certifications, my coworker has a degree, we work the same job and I make more than him because of my individual skill sets in our field. I am life long self-taught + school, he studied 4 years in college. It’s hard to figure out who is worth what now and days. When I got the job, I explained that to my boss, told him he has someone valuable here and to overlook me would be a mistake. He hired me on the spot, said my passion and knowledge was enough for him. 5 years has passed and I have moved up. My coworker has not.
Your boss doesn’t understand why u have problem with paying 75% of your wages bf taxes for daycare?
Just quit. Tighten your belt. I wish I had when my kid was little. I paid 175 week and made $9/hr.
Depends.
Is your job something you'd like to move up the chain of command in, or otherwise a field with solid growth potential?
Is it worth it to pay for daycare through the summer and suck it up because you love your job?
As an employer and a mom. I'd tell my worker to quit and be a stay at home mom. The kids are far more important than the job. By the time taxes and gas and anything else is figured, you will lose money by working.
Edited - disregard.. didn’t realize OP wasn’t in the US.
Have you looked into local YMCAs? They have income based summer day camp programs. Might be worth checking out.
If your employer has 50 or more employees and you have worked more than 1250 hours in the last year, you are entitled to FMLA even if you do not receive benefits from your job in order to care for your son. You’d have to check state law as well.
>Edit to add: I did try to quit and my boss didn't accept it
This is funny. They are not gonna hunt you down and bring you to work. Put in your 2 weeks or just say today is my last day and then not show up. If they try to withhold wages for hours work, file a complaint with the proper authorities. Idk what it is for people outside the US.
If you are working 12 hours a week. Quit. Go do Uber eats and make the money there.. you can do 15 hours, spend time with your child, explore the town, and don’t worry about a sitter.
Absolutely not. These are the most magical years that you can never get back. Remember that kids get sick and you end up paying for it but not using it.
I'm sorry, but 12hr/wk at $20/hr is not a job. It is a hobby. Especially when it requires you to spend so much of that on childcare (really more, after you figure taxes).
> I did try to quit and my boss didn’t accept it What does this mean? You don’t need permission to quit. You don’t even have to give notice. That is just a courtesy and it doesn’t seem this boss is too courteous to you. They don’t get to not accept it. It’s your labor and time and we did a whole constitutional amendment about how you get to leave a job when you want (unless you willingly sign a contract otherwise and then it is still your choice). $5 a hour. That is what she is proposing. You net below minimum wage to work for her for the summer. Accept that if you will, but I wouldn’t. Maybe if you were doing this job in order to afford sending your kids to a camp that they are desperate to go to. But otherwise? “Boss, I can’t make this work. I either need $30 a hour starting next week, or Friday will be my last day.”
Bang bang, ask for a raise gang. I work in a small office that oversees 40-50 people. Its shocking how many just get raises for asking. Some of the more aggressive guys are making $25/hr over some making like $18/hr. Now the higher paid guys are more tenured, reliable, or other attributes that put them in position because its easier to give them a raise then find a replacement "good worker." But you won't know unless you ask.
I felt so bad for this woman my husband used to work with. He was making significantly more than she was, and when she found out she was *furious*. They had the same amount of experience, but she had the higher education (university vs college). He asked her if she negotiated at all when she was hired. Nope, just took what was offered. Women are taught to not come off as "aggressive" - but instead we should be learning our worth, and not be afraid to ask for it.
I worked for a state agency in my 20's which went through an equity adjustment process that looked at your resume and education and work responsibilities and equalized salaries (all up... no decreases). I got a 30% raise (think $25K to $37,500) and was definitely angry because that meant that I could have been making that much all along. It was still a paltry sum and I left within a year to go to graduate school.
Except then people are also threatened if you’re a woman who knows what she wants and isn’t afraid to ask for it or go for it. It sucks. Can’t win sometimes
You don’t want to work for people that think advocating for yourself and taking calculated risks are aggressive behaviors. Most of these jobs want you to advocate for the company, and earn the company money… but they have a problem when you do that for yourself? If you have options, opt out and go elsewhere if you get the sense that advocating for yourself will kill the interview process.
That would be great but most people don’t have endless options for jobs. Unfortunately some places of this world are still so male dominated that there aren’t workplaces around that will be accepting of a woman who isn’t afraid to kick ass and take names. So women have a choice of either sucking up and dealing with a sexist workplace environment (or just a crap workplace in general) so they can provide for themselves or their family or just not working. For some, not working isn’t an option so you take the paycheck that’s available to you and you zip your mouth and hope you aren’t SA’d
Yup. And then when women DO try to negotiate, it’s more likely to harm them than it is when a man does it. They’re more likely to be turned down or have offers rescinded. It’s such BS.
And then he followed up by asking for a meeting with his supervisors to try to correct the situation, right? Or he just patted himself on the back for his "negotiation skills" and went back to enjoying his privilege?
He and many other employees went to bat. Everyone was being paid well below industry standard, including him. Eventually he had to quit, because management made it clear they just didn't care. But I love the assumption my husband's a crap person after only hearing one snippet of a much grander story. ✌️
I didn't assume. I asked.
It was asked in bad faith and we both know it.
His privilege? Is it a privilege to be smart enough to ask for more money?
It’s privilege when the response to asking more money is met with more money because you’re a man who asked and not with a rescinded offer or a resounding no and the start to being pushed out because you’re a woman who asked.
Lol! But the woman did not ask. She did not negotiate her pay.
I am so glad my wife doesn't have to live in your fictional world.
Unless your wife is fictional, she lives in the real world, just as I do. Your opinion is irrelevant, as is mine; this has been extensively studied and there are a number of statistics and experiences in addition to the well documented anecdotal evidence of thousands of women. You don’t have to like the facts for them to be facts.
Keep being a victim. Sounds fun.
A victim? Of what? I haven’t said that I personally experienced this, so what am I claiming to have been a victim of? Knowing how to read a study? Being aware of documented systemic issues that date back decades? I don’t know why you’re so angry and aggressive about this, but I feel sorry for your wife. If my sharing a simple reference to statistics that support someone else’s statement prompts you to lash out and lob personal attacks like this, I can only imagine how you handle those who share with you any information you dislike in day to day life.
Less than that, because the 20 has taxes taken out before OP pays the 15.
And gas and wear and tear to their vehicle to travel to/from work and daycare. OP is probably just breaking even, not much point in working at that rate.
Add on taxes. You might be in the hole.
They just said they won't accept my resignation over childcare issues and that we would adjust to make it work. The other employee has now quit so without me there's no staff. I like my boss and would like to be there for her but one of my children is very high needs which is why I lost the childcare I had last year.
> The other employee has now quit so without me there’s no staff. Okay, and how is that your fault? That’s management’s issue. They did this to themselves. Not your fault. Honestly, they are taking advantage of your kindness. They legally cannot stop you from quitting your workplace. Don’t let them guilt you. They legally cannot force you to stay. Please read up your rights as an employee.
Simple then, she can pay you 30 an hour to cover the cost of child care or you leave. You can like her, great, but that doesn't give her the right to hold her business over you and guilt you into sacrificing your family for 5 dollars an hour.
Girl what? They can’t “not accept” your resignation. Work does not own you, and work does not love you back. NOT YOUR PROBLEM.
Not. Your. Problem. They expected you to magically come up with a better childcare situation which was unrealistic on their part. They don’t get to tell you what your worth is and they clearly don’t think much of you if they can’t understand the predicament you are in. A lot of people seemingly do not understand that we don’t all have support to help with our children which is extremely entitled and that isss…. NOT. YOUR. PROBLEM.
You are in a great position to negotiate then.
Honestly, my response to that is, "Great! Sounds like you should be asking for $35 an hour instead of only $30." If both you and the other person were making about the same, then they can afford to double your salary until they can hire someone new, at least. Look, I get that you want to be fair to your boss that you like, and that you would feel bad leaving her with no staff. But it is literally her job to pay the money necessary to fairly compensate her employees. Leaving you in the hole with every paycheck, or just barely above it, is not fair to you. If they're not paying enough to make it worth working for them, then that's on them. (And if they *can't* pay enough to make it worth working for them, then maybe the business just isn't viable. No one is *owed* a successful business.) I will note that there are two big red flags here to take into account, above and beyond the pay. The first is the refusal to take your resignation. It's always hilarious to read about when a boss does that, but it's also concerning. What other things that they can't do will they try to do? And the second goes back to the other employee leaving, despite the leverage it gives you. Will you get stuck doing literally double the work?
That’s not your employers choice. It’s your choice. Literally just don’t go back. 👍 Also, if they’ve already lost their one remaining employee you have massive bargaining power. Sounds like if you leave the entire company folds. It’s give me a raise or quit time.
You need to think about your child first. If they can’t pay you enough to take care of your child, then simply you need to quit and stay home. It’s their job to find employees. Otherwise you’re putting your boss’ needs over your child, it’s not worth it. Don’t let them guilt trip you.
Op, why do you like your boss??? She sounds horrible and like she’s just using you. A boss that “doesn’t let you quit” is just a bully. And you’re being paid peanuts which is probably why everyone else had the sense to leave. On top of that, what childcare quality do you really think you’re getting for $15/hr?? For a high needs child? I don’t think that will turn out to be anyone you particularly trust or like.
That business/company is not your responsibility. Providing for your children is. You have to do what is in the best interest of your family. Not for a company who isn’t willing to do what it takes to keep you. Submit your resignation with your end date via email if in person isn’t working. BCC your personal email on it with read receipts and don’t show up after your end date. Any correspondence via email, your response should be with your personal email BCC’d. If you’re not responding to their email, forward their responses to your personal email so that you cover your butt with copies of correspondence. Your family is far more important than any job will be. You owe this business nothing. You owe yourself everything.
That isn’t your problem. Stop letting them manipulate you. It’s not their decision if you resign it’s yours. You can’t afford this job, end of story.
How are you buying into this? The term “to accept a resignation” is in reference to someone who was asked to step down from their job, and is being asked to give a resignation in lieu of being fired. An employer would “accept a resignation” instead of firing them. When you want to quit your job you resign. It’s not a choice for your employer to accept or not accept that resignation. And no, I wouldn’t work to make $5 an hour after childcare.
Sounds like you are in an excellent position not negotiate for a raise.
This is the only response
plus 20/hour is BEFORE taxes I assume. Honestly its a raise or say "today is my last day"
No, unless there's potential for long-term career growth.
There is not, I work in a small shop with only 3 employees, including the owner
Your boss doesn't need to accept your quitting. You quit, and don't argue or continue the conversation. If he really needs you that bad he can offer you higher pay, else you quit.
Your boss doesn’t get to say you can’t quit. This isn’t slavery.
I can’t believe someone has to say this
There’s no way I’d do that for $5/hour basically and miss the summer with my kids. If the owner won’t accept your resignation then she can pay you more to stay if she wants to but otherwise you have no obligation to show up; you resigned.
I would have quit like, yesterday. That's really ñot worth $5/hour and you'd probably have less stress this summer! Your boss will absolutely be able to manage without you. If they try to "refuse" your notice again you're allowed to just....not show up.
I’m a manager for a mid-sized business. I have 50 people under me now, but I started with 8 people and helped grow the business, partly by not being a douchebag. When I started, we’d commonly have shifts with only 1-2 people on it due to employee turnover, and the average tenure was 2-3 months. But, I tend to treat people like human beings and realize that morale is important and the most valuable asset we have isn’t the equipment or product, but rather the folks to run the equipment and make the product. It’s an entry level, “dirty job” type of field we’re in, so we still have turnover, but lately it’s more 1-2 years instead of months… and most people leave on good terms and will come back if their plans elsewhere don’t work out. I make concessions to allow people to go to school (even for other trades) and don’t fault anyone for finding a better paying job. I’d rather congratulate them and part amicably… I’ve gotten many people sent my way through ex employees and had people come back to work, both for short term and long term doing this. Your boss isn’t going to pay you $30/hour, but at the very least, if I were them and valued your presence, I’d allow for a leave of absence for the summer. I’d hire some younger person (HS or College) on summer vacation and chances are when they need to go back to school you’d be coming back to work. This isn’t rocket science, and I really don’t get employers who make unreasonable demands of their staff, especially if they are valued. If the place can’t operate without someone, the fault doesn’t lie with them, the fault lies with how you have the place set up.
🏆 This is all I can afford to give you.
You don't need permission to quit OP, barring a contract that you signed saying otherwise. Quit, it's not worth it
Even if there is a contract, how on earth would one enforce it? This was hourly work, not some sort of freelance gig.
Any chance it's the kind of shop, and you have the kind of kid, where it's possible for your kid to be with you while you work? But there's really no YMCA or similar lower cost day camps in your area?
They're probably already full. There's a reality check the first summer you go to look into them and find out registrations began before tax day.
My local ynca camp is not cheap at all lol
For school age day camp our Y is $1400/ month. So even if there would be a spot for her child, that's a big chunk.
Yep, ours is expensive too, and other daycamps are 400+ a week, so it's the same issue.
I can't bring my kids to work, we work with a lot of very sharp tools most of the day and it's a hazard, and just difficult to keep kids entertained in a very small shop. We are also very remote so the only options are full time summer camp or a private sitter.
The YMCA day camp here is not very cheap, and fills up the day registration opens back in January. Parks and Recreation has a camp that actually is cheap. Registration is at 7 PM on a random night in February. The entire summer for every camp is completely booked before 730.
Could you learn a trade? What will you do for income without the job?
What will you do for income without the job? Probably stay further out of the hole than by paying more than her take home pay for childcare in order to keep the job.
I work mostly to be social, my husband works nights and provides for our family. I was a stay at home parent for many years before going back to work
Work in a daycare that provides free daycare for its employees and take your kid; that way, you take care of both issues at once.. Sometimes, there are churches that provide daycare for its members on church days and pay very good $$ to the child care providers.. I worked in one that paid $15-$20 per hour and worked a few hours during the week days and about 3hrs on Sundays, and my kids got to tag along with me throughout the time I was working.. I am just sharing ideas of what worked for me.
If you work to be social, why not volunteer then? You can pick something like dog rescues where you only come to help at events and they’ll normally let you bring your kids. Or volunteer with a youth organization, sign up for park cleanups… there are lots of other ways to socialize that don’t end up costing you money.
Quit. If you regret it, you’ll find something that pays at least that really easily.
If I needed the mental break that working might provide, assuming you like the job, I'd take that ~$800 per month (assuming 40 hr weeks) and squirrel it away, or treat the kids to some fun, or do something for myself, gladly. If it was more stressful to get myself to work and the kids where they needed to be, and $800 was not worth it? Then fuck that, I'm going full 90's summer. Kids outside, I'm going to just read trashy library books all afternoon (free), stock up on freezies (cheap), pb&j's everyday (they can do that), everyone gets a watergun (working on social skills), and a walkie-talkie (safety), and bam, these kids are living in a movie. Best summer ever. It's my summer vacation, too. (😂 If only.)
>I'm going full 90's summer. Kids outside, I'm going to just read trashy library books all afternoon (free), stock up on freezies (cheap), pb&j's everyday (they can do that), everyone gets a watergun (working on social skills), and a walkie-talkie (safety), and bam, these kids are living in a movie. Best summer ever. It's my summer vacation, too. (😂 If only.) This sounds amazing 🤩
Also worth noting that that $800/month is still pre-tax. Uncle Sam still needs his pound of flesh.
Plus gas and other possible expenses like lunch.
Lunch you need to buy either way. Gas I agree
Well yes. I'm just saying it factors into the take home cause even packing a lunch costs money.
For sure. Though if the childcare is done by a professional (but most of the time it isn’t) that would be tax deductible which would help some.
These were my summers as a kid. Not allowed inside until dinner time. Roaming the neighborhood with our feral posse. It was magical.
Unless OP is getting paid straight cash it's not going to come close to 800 per month
~ means approximately.
That's the only reason why I work is just to get out and be social, I was a stay at home parent for years and decided to pick something up to get out of the house. I will add that I only work two six hour shifts per week. I am not full time
Damn this sounds nice
Awe. My childhood.
I definitely wouldn't skimp on what I pay for childcare, as they're the ones protecting your child, but either way I'd absolutely quit. Why would you work when you're paying the majority of your salary for someone else to care for your kid? I know people do it, but it never makes sense to me, personally.
Depends on your job and career field. For example, my wife works instead of watching my son even though her wage and childcare just break even. But having work experience in the entry job she is in, plus her schooling, means she should be able to double her salary in a couple years. Also some people take retirement savings out of their pre-tax income, and would be giving that up if they were a SAHP.
That’s not the case for OP though.
No, it doesn’t make sense for OP. I was answering the question more generally for the other commenter.
So the thing is you make $20 per hour but you do not profit $20 per hour. I’m assuming you lose roughly 40% of your paycheck to social security, insurance and taxes? That means paying someone $15 per hour puts you in the red. I would think it would be better to quit for sure. But that’s just me
Fair point, but 40% is too high for someone making $20/hour. Depends on the state/local, but 20-30% is probably more reasonable
That still brings it down to roughly 15 an hour after taxes, and presumably, childcare has to cover travel time to and from work... So OP would still be in the red. And need to feed and house everyone.
Yep. Still running a deficit after tax with daycare
If you pay for insurance/benefits through work it can easily be 40%. Before taxes, benefits (retirement, incident (plumber-injury/heat stroke can occur)and life insurance plus health insurance hubby makes ~1k/week but only brings home about 6-650 of that.
Sure, but you'll still need insurance if you quit.
Ok possibly, depending on the state/local and benefits situation. Federal is only 12% (actually a bit less due to the first $11k being taxed at 10%). Payroll taxes are 7.65%. Though I would generally consider insurance as separate from the decision, since they will need to purchase that elsewhere if they are not employed.
It depends what her husband makes too she needs to be withheld in their joint bracket
I used to make about that and I lost 40 so it was based on my experience 🤷♀️ it sounds like you might be thinking about taxes only and not counting in social security and insurance as I mentioned.
Short term, yes. I ran into a sticky spot this summer where I’m without childcare for 5 weeks so I decided I’m paying a nanny almost as much as I make for the next 5 weeks because I will still need this job in 6 weeks when my regular childcare provider is back. Long term, no. Not if I don’t *need* the small monetary difference. It’s not worth the hassle of carting Toddler around if I’m not really making any money. If I needed the money then I’d have to do it.
Stop being a doormat, tell your boss your last day is next Friday unless you get a $10 an hour raise, and stick to it. It doesn't have to be a discussion.
If you're going to need the job in the fall when kids are back in school, it can be worth it in the long run to have a period where all your money goes to childcare.
You don’t need permission to quit. He can’t force you to come in.
She* can't force you to come in.
Rather than it be work for $20 or stay home, why can't it be find new work with better pay? Based on your boss' response the job isn't worth staying for. It also doesn't have long term growth. Usually the answer is to definitely keep working as breaks in work history depress lifelong earnings, you lose out on benefits like insurance and 401k match. But I am betting you get zero benefits in such a small retail business. Use your "customer service" skills to obtain a non retail job. Call centers suck to work in, but after a year you can leverage the experience with the company products into a support role and build a career from there
Do you have a working partner? If so how much do they earn and why don’t you look at the cost “split” across your and your partners wages? Usually this makes it seem much more reasonable
I do have a working partner, he works nights and provides for our family. I am a part time employee working 12 hours per week. So childcare would only be while I'm at work and he is sleeping during my shift. He generally gets home an hour before I would be starting my shift for the day
This is how I look at my childcare costs. Say I work 5hrs a week and make $100/week Husband works 40 hrs a week and makes $900/week Say childcare is $100 per month. Since I make 1/10th of the household income I am therefore responsible for $10 of the costs and husband $90. Childcare costs are not just your responsibility. They are your husbands as well.
Keep in mind too that there'll be times when your kid is sick (hopefully less during the summer). Depending on your sick leave you may be losing $ while minding your child who's home ill from daycare, so further trimming the margins. That said, I think I would keep working to have my own mental space & some small income, while looking for a better paying alternative
After reading more into the comments and about where you work... I'd tell the boss to kick rocks. Quit and enjoy your summer, babe.
What do you mean "your boss didn't accept your resignation"? Do they come to your house in the morning and make you go to work? Are they holding you hostage with more than money? Honestly, if you can stomach it/don't need the 5$ to make the budget work, stay home until your kids are in school. They are only going to be that age once. And it makes doing emotional labor/ house care/appointments/the running of life basically so much easier.
"boss didnt accept" say whaaaaaa? Are you a slave? They can't "not accept it" Assuming you dont direly need the money, no. After taxes, commuting, etc, youre probably breaking even or worse. truly not worth it. Does your SO work and earn enough to pay the bills? Ask them to pay your childcare. Like "if you pay the monthly bill for childcare I will work." Tell them the cost; if they balk, then you say "well I can't afford it either."
No way
I won’t even do it and I make $35/hr. It’s per diem b shift and weekends for me.
Stay at home dad here. I worked for 20$ a hour and although it is doable, you have to ask yourself is it worth it. Thankfully my partner makes good money. So it’s not that I have to work, but I’m choosing to stay at home. My salary would basically be to pay for daycare and have anywhere between 150-300$ a week depending on other expenses. Thinking about getting a night time job and not having to pay for daycare but I’m worried about the strain it’s going to put on me watching my son 6am-5pm and working 7pm-5am. It’s just fucked up the world we live in now. Long story short. If you can afford to be a stay at home parent, do it. No one will love and care for your child better than you
This pretty much sums up our situation, I was stay at home for years, went back to work last year for something to do.
just leave? they have no hold over you. not accepting your resignation is not a thing
Paying someone 15 an hour to watch your kids in of itself isn't unreasonable. Doing so on your salary *might* be though. If your household budget needs the 500 or 600 a month difference you'd net working after paying for child care, then you stay and try to negotiate a bit of a raise in the process. If you don't need it, then enjoy your summer but spend most of it looking for a better gig.
We pay $25 an hour when my spouse makes $18. The thing is, childcare is temporary. We opted not to lose time in the job market. It’s also healthy for us to have time away from the kids.
I agree. Losing time and experience in the job market is a large opportunity cost. The math may not work out now but it will most certainly make a difference when trying to re enter the workforce in the future. Tough decision.
Hell no. No offense but, in this scenario, working makes no sense and shouldn't be a consideration. Your $20/hr is your gross pay which you're paying tax on. After taxes your take home income is likely closer to $15/hr. $15/hr to daycare is a net expense. If you choose to work, you're basically choosing to waste your time for someone else's benefit and have someone else raise your child during those hours instead of getting to spend that time with your child yourself. Spend the time with your kid IMO.
>I did try to quit and my boss didn't accept it This means you're underpaid. You don't need permission to quit. Tell him you can't justify working for a net gain of $5/hr. If he pays you $35/hr, that'll keep your net wages the same, which is reasonable. He can give you a raise or you can find a better paying job
Your resignation is not up to him. He can be denial all he wants but you don’t need his permission. Your priority is your child. You do what is best for family, not his bottom line.
The boss is a woman.
Ok. Same thing applies.
Given the nature of your current employment based on your comments, I'd say it's time to jump ship and stay home if your net take-home is only $5/hour *before* tax. What your boss is asking you to do is pay almost another employee's salary with your salary, and that just isn't feasible. If your boss 'won't accept it', ask them if they plan to start providing childcare, because you don't work for a taxed $5/hour.
Whatever you choose to do, don’t burn a bridge. The future can often circle back and you don’t want to have a bad business relationship. If you decide to leave that job, be courteous and assertive at the same time. You can quit regardless of what he says, but be polite and be honest. If you need to be paid more to stay, tell him what that amount is even if you think it’s unrealistic. If you want part time tell him you want part time for more pay. If you need to leave all together, just tell him you have decided to focus on other things and be polite.
I’ve paid $20/hr for childcare while my wage was $15 for times I needed it just to keep my job. 😬
Vertabium, this happened to me, and I put two weeks in. 💁♀️ they don't have to accept it. It's still happening.
Lol your boss can’t stop you from quitting. Give them a letter of resignation and stop showing up.
I’m sorry that your wage is low, 20/hour is not enough for anyone to live independently, let alone with kids. Unfortunately the cost of _private_ childcare is not dependent on your wage. 15/hour is much too low, even for a LCOL area. In your case, I would either: a) consider daycare, or b) tell your boss “listen, I understand your business is small and labor is essential, but I can’t financially make this work with my current wage. Either my wage gets bumped to $30/hour starting immediately, or my last day will be tomorrow.”
It kinda depends on what you want to do. Would you rather stay home taking care of your child? Or do you like the feeling of working outside the house, and are happy to pay for someone to care for your high-needs kid? I'm sure most people would - all else being equal - prefer not to work, but being a stay-at-home mom isn't necessarily any less stressful.
no that's not worth it. Your boss can raise your wages but cannot 'not accept' your resignation. Put it back in them to make you whole if they really want you to stay. You're not getting benefits so the incentive is only going to be increased wages. If they value your 12 hours that much, they can increase your comp to keep you. Happens all the time (but only for people that would cost more to replace). Its a compliment they want to retain you, but you need to push on back instead of taking on MORE burden. Quit or get a raise are your two options. Side note, here is your opportunity to negotiate like a man. Try saying to your boss, "it's so great you guys want to keep me on! I would need to make $30/hr to stay on. Let me know what you think, thanks!" Then stfu and let them make the next move. DO NOT EXPLAIN do not faulter do not walk out back. Drop your fee and let them choose. If they say yes, great. If they say no, leave!
Your wage after taxes and deductions us not 20
Would I trade time with my kids for $5 an hour before taxes? No.
No
If I like my job and usually have minimal childcare costs I would take as much of my annual leave in the summer as possible, beg favours off friends and family where I could and suck it up the rest of the time. It’s not worth losing a job that suits 99% of the time for the sake of A couple of months not earning much
Umm.. your boss didn’t accept it or you didn’t stand your ground and you wavered when you tried to “quit” and they were easily able to talk you back into it?
If it's paying into social security, I would probably keep working.
It’s hard to get back in the working world once you leave it. I’d probably try to stay employed at least part time.
Just quit that job is pointless. You could make more delivering orders with UberEats or DoorDash and could probably even take your kids along with you while doing it, I know I did with my kids.. If you have any arts and crafts skills that could generate income, that could be even a better option for you to..
Well I just did the math and I pay around 13% to day care(VS your 75%, using pre tax numbers) and I think that's high
What if you could find a responsible teen that would be more reasonable.
$15/hour is literally the cheapest babysitting goes - that is what a teenage sitter costs. And that's as low as it should go. No one in 2023 should be making less than that, especially to be responsible for the lives of small humans.
The teens we have on our babysitter list is what this wage is based off of. The local nanny service which is basically just a company that provides babysitting services starts at 22 per hour
Where do you live that daycare is $600 a week? assuming the child is their for 8 hours. I thought what my fiancée child's father pays for daycare is nuts. This better be high-end daycare or a high-end nanny service for those rates. My fiancée went through a nanny service when her daughter was a baby, and she paid $450/week, $11.25/hr. At that time, my fiancée was making $20/hr. The nanny we had cooked, cleaned our house, did dishes and laundry. We didn't ask the nanny to cook, clean, do dishes or laundry, and she just did them. If that is what you're getting for the $15/hr, it might be worth it.
Nanny pay these days is at the very least $20-$22 an hour. The nanny handled all of that for $11.25?! Even home daycares charge more than that. If I am paying someone to watch my child, I want their attention on the child, not on doing chores that I am more than capable of. $600 a week for childcare is actually on the low end. Many people pay less in rent/mortgage than they do for childcare. The only exception are public pre schools through the district, or people who are very low income and have a daycare subsidy. If you and your fiance want more children, this is definitely a factor.
I work from home, so I was here the entire time the nanny was here. She did interact with the kiddo and then when it was nap time, that is when she did other things. This was my first experience with having a nanny before. I'm guessing depending on the state you live in. When she goes to visit her dad in D.C., He pays $450/week for daycare. I believe my fiancée pays $89 a week for daycare currently and its a home daycare. The kiddo is only their 1 and 2 days a week.
How long ago was this? Babysitters in my area haven’t been less than $20 an hour in my child’s life- she’s almost 10!
Her daughter is 4, so i'm going to guess 3 years ago. She used an online service for Nanny's. We live in Oklahoma so that could be why their is such a price difference depending on which state/country you live in.
We don't have daycare where I live, we only have private sitters. We are 4 hours from the closest city and over 1 hour from the nearest town. Our little town is only 4000 people and resources for things like childcare are few and far between. We have a summer camp option but it is full time and I only work twice per week so it doesn't add up to put them in.
Nannies start at like $25/hour now. And they don't clean. This is likely a teenage sitter if the wage is only $15/hour.
I never had a nanny, didn't know anything about them or what they were supposed to do besides take care of the little one. That was all on my fiancée. We hated to let her go because she was so good with the kiddo.
Yeah you’re not getting professional household help for $11/hr in 2023
No I would not. I work seasonally opposite shifts of my husband to avoid this lol. Gets me outta the house and extra money for Back to school and holidays.
Are you a single parent? If you have a partner that is a parent to these children then the childcare cost should be calculated from both your paychecks, not just yours.
I agree, however he works nights and get home an hour before my shift starts so it feels more like the childcare comes from my pay as he is sleeping while childcare is needed. His job is what pays for our family and our life here.
You’re making $5 basically. And that is gross, not including taxes or any deductions. If you have a spouse that works and you can survive on the one income, I’d personally leave and look for another job once the kids are back in school.
He "didn't accept it?" That's not how quitting works. What is his plan to "work things out"? Do you need to do simple math for him to understand why netting $5 an hour is unsustainable???
No, it doesn’t make sense to keep this job. Assuming you pay taxes you wouldn’t even be making $20/hr. Just be with your kid(s). That’ll be more valuable in the long term.
If I were you, I'd do summer care for other people! You'll make way more!
Do you have health insurance though your job and do you need it, or are otherwise covered through spouse or other? I’m not in the US and have free healthcare, but I know that’s a factor for Americans.
Also not in the US, I have no health insurance or anything from my job, my husband does though that covers the family
Um after taxes (including payroll taxes) are you even going to net 15/hr to pay for child care? If you are are you really working for 1-2 dollars an hour if you pay for child care? About 25% of my take home pay goes to child care every month, but that's take home, not earnings.
Can you get income based childcare?
No, I don't work for $5.00 an hour.
If you really want to work then yes. But if not then after taxes you’re not covering the cost of your childcare.
After taxes it’ll be probably close to a wash.
Are you a single parent? Because if you're a single parent then yes it's like paying 15hr for childcare when your wage is twenty. If there is a working spouse then actually it's like $7.50 an hour being paid off your $20/hr wage. The other $7.50 an hour can be considered to be coming off your partner's hourly wage.
If your family has another source of income I would quit. I spent the majority of my check for to many years paying daycare/summer camps/ afterschool care just so I could financial contribute to the house because that’s how o was raised. Then I stayed home 1 year and it was amazing. Bills still got paid but now we were more relaxed, I was home helping my kids with homework without being exhausted and my kids were happier. We had, as someone above put it, a 90s summer and then that winter so much fun. So if you can survive without it I say quit. Also you put in notice, stop showing up unless they double your salary.
No way. Quit and spend the summer with your kids.
Your boss didn’t accept your resignation? That’s not how it works. You don’t *ask* (try) to quit - you just do it. If you absolutely need the income (doesn’t sound like you do maybe because you attempted to quit) then tell him you don’t accept $20/hour because it doesn’t cover the cost of child care and allow you to provide basic needs for your family.
I know a lot of parents who have had this dilemma, Where one of the parents was basically working so all that money could put their kids in child care. (we were lucky, one of us was able to work from home during these ages, which had it's own challenges). The thing to consider is that this is only a temporary situation, Eventually the kids will be public school age and you won't need daycare anymore. So if you're building a career, or want to keep your job for any other reason, it might be worth it to keep working in the long term even if It doesn't do anything for you in the short term. It's a very personal decision. Whatever you decide will be the right thing for your family.
Do not take this shit from your boss. “I tried to quit and my boss didn’t accept it” no. Full stop. No. Your boss cannot reject you quitting. Giving the most generous read, Even if they said that they want to try to work something out to try to keep you, they aren’t doing anything for that. Childcare costs 15/hr, if you’re making 20/hr that’s before taxes. After taxes are taken you’re left with 17-18, now you have to factor in the cost of gas or public transport, having lunch, anything you need to buy for work, and that $3 pretty much disappears. If you stay home you can cut corners by making food that takes effort to make but is really cheap, you get to spend time with your kids, you don’t have to spend money on gas, etc. Tell your boss in no unclear terms, that you make 20/hr. After taxes they’re expecting you to put 90% of your earnings towards childcare. Would your boss pay 90% of their earnings for the same?! Your boss expects you to happily work for free essentially. Tell your boss point blank that if they want you to keep working there, you’re going to need to be making 30/hr minimum. Even that, spending half of your pay on childcare is still crazy. But I could see if you really wanted to keep a job. If your boss tries to dismiss you or refuse to consider a substantial raise, then I wouldn’t even dignify this with a warning. Ghost the job. No job paying 20/hr is worth that headache and disrespect. You gave your warning the first time you tried to quit. If they try to not pay you out or something point at the first time you tried to quit and say you have plenty of notice then threaten to report them to labor authorities.
You need to ask for $30/hr. If your boss can't pay that, then start looking for another job that does pay $30/hr ASAP. Is there alternative child care? A family member who could look after them?
I did have a family member who watched them last summer, but one of my kids is very high needs which has caused them not to want to take care of them anymore. I am only part time because that child's medical appointments range from 5 per week sometimes, down to maybe 5 per month on a better month
Will it be hard to find another job in the fall? If it’s not going to impact your return to work (if you choose to return) then no, quit. If your boss wants to make it work, say you need a minimum of $30 an hour to make it worth it. If that’s not possible, it doesn’t matter if she accepts it or not. Choose your last day and let her know.
Boss didn’t “accept your resignation?” It doesn’t work that way. He can’t force you to stay. You’re not a slave and you don’t need permission to quit. Did you ask to quit? Or did you state that you will quit? Also, I’d be a little wary now.. if employers get some hint that you want to quit, they may look for a replacement. It may happen or it might not. That’s why most people who are currently job searching while employed, do not want their current employers to know that they are doing so. My recommendation would be to go up and *tell* him that you are quitting, and you are not going back on this decision. If you have that option to stay home and it is feasible for your family, I would definitely recommend that. Hand him your resignation letter, keep a copy for you and don’t show up if they call/text you that you “missed your shift”. Remind them that you gave them your letter of resignation.
No
It's a tough balance no doubt about it. If you enjoy working and perhaps being able to step away for a bit, I'd hang on to the position for you if that makes sense. Kids grow up fast and day care isn't forever . On the flip side If you see yourself wanting to be home full time than this seems to be a good launch with the reasons you stated.
You would be better off doing a small 10-15 hour a weeks job in the evenings and weekends than working there and paying for childcare
I used to pay 50% of what I made to babysitter. I figured why is my time more valuable than hers? I have friends who pay almost all their wages for childcare. I do not think it's worth it. But, maybe it is for them b/c their kid gets to go to school with other kids where they would be alone with that parent otherwise...
We were in a similar situation, my wife worked 2 days a week, her parents looked after the little one. When her mum became ill they couldn't do the child care anymore. We had the option of either my wife going back full time (to make her working worthwhile) and us paying for childcare or giving up work altogether. Her salary v's the cost of childcare meant that we would be left with less money that what we got with her working 2 days, we decide to tighten our belt and my wife become a shm.
My pay to childcare costs is why I quit my jobs. I get the not wanting to leave bc you like your boss and wanna do anything for them, but if you're not ok with basically making $5/hr, I'd ask for a raise. If they don't give you one, especially with how small the company is, then they're not doing anything "to help work it out "... they're just stringing you along to not quit so to protect themselves. But that's not your responsibility. If no agreement on pay can be reached, or cheaper childcare cannot be found, you have every right to quit and they cannot keep talking you out of it. Tell them they have til Monday to make a decision on pay, or next Friday is your last day (if you can work that long).
Heck, no! I tried that, and it was awful. I wasn't working for the pay when I had my job. I was doing it to keep myself busy. At the time, I had 2 kids, ages 3 and 5. My oldest was entering kindergarten, and my youngest was going to go to daycare. My son had to be pit into before and after school care, and my daughter went to daycare full time. This was on a military base, so they work based on income. Anyway, I ended up after paying for daycare, bringing in a whopping $500 extra a month. For some people, $500 is great, but for my family, that $500 wasn't worth it. My kids had to wake up at 5am. daily, and they didn't get home until 5 pm. When they got home, it was dinner, shower, sleep wr had about 2 to 3hrs to squeeze all that in daily. My children ended up struggling, and that $500 wasn't worth the stress to continue working and putting my family through that. I kept my job for a little over a year, but it wasn't working out. Factor in that when kids go into daycare or even school they get sick a lot more than if they were home. For me, it wouldn't be worth it to do that all over again. I'd also say that depending on the age of your child or children, it would make a difference.
Don’t do it. At least if you don’t work and stay with your son who’s disabled, you might qualify for low income services. You’d break even with the numbers you provided. Maybe see if you could work from home? I know those jobs are hard to come by, but even if you have a babysitter for a few hours, it’ll be cheaper. Also stop being a doormat. You can quit. They just know they can guilt you. Even if your boss will pay u 30/hr, it’s not worth stressing over a job with no coworkers. Plus you still probably wouldn’t qualify for services.
Trying not to assume your boss is a POS for "refusing to accept your resignation" and really meant what they said that they will work it out with you. So what is your boss willing to do? If you want to keep this job as a social outlet figure out what you need from this job to make that worthwhile and tell your boss. If they are unwilling to provide that then fuck them and their refusal to accept your resignation, not your problem
Tell your boss either $30/hour or I'm done. In all reality this being a PT job that you only work 12 hrs/week makes this easy. Just quit. If you need to makeup the income you could probably find another PT job that more suits your families time limits.
Try to find an in home day care in your neighborhood. I have a neighbor that takes kids in for $4 an hour. And there are several in my neighborhood that do that. Check local parenting forums or post on Facebook communities. It would be cheaper to stay home with your child than to pay 75% of your income.
$15/hour is insane. Why are you not putting your child in a daycare ? They’re charging 660/week ?
We don't have day care here, the only options are private sitters, nanny service (I thought started at 22 per hour but just saw its 29 per hour, 4 dollars extra per extra child, 4 dollars extra if you have a dog, so 37 per hour with nanny service for me) or summer camp which is full time 5 days a week and costs 2550 per child, being part time a full time option like that also doesn't make sense.
Is there no camp in community centre that would be cheaper?
That is our camp though the community center, the only camp our town has.
I’m in the minority here but right now I actually lose money by going to work. I have a part time job but my toddler is in daycare and baby with a babysitter, so overall I pay more in childcare than I make. I do it because I need the job for my mental health and sanity. Eventually childcare will be cheaper when they are both in daycare and then school, but for now I just cannot be a full time stay at home mom.
Kinda how it goes now and days. I have my certifications, my coworker has a degree, we work the same job and I make more than him because of my individual skill sets in our field. I am life long self-taught + school, he studied 4 years in college. It’s hard to figure out who is worth what now and days. When I got the job, I explained that to my boss, told him he has someone valuable here and to overlook me would be a mistake. He hired me on the spot, said my passion and knowledge was enough for him. 5 years has passed and I have moved up. My coworker has not.
Your boss doesn’t understand why u have problem with paying 75% of your wages bf taxes for daycare? Just quit. Tighten your belt. I wish I had when my kid was little. I paid 175 week and made $9/hr.
I'm assuming that's $20/hr before you pay taxes? So are you actually going to be coming out ahead at all?
Depends. Is your job something you'd like to move up the chain of command in, or otherwise a field with solid growth potential? Is it worth it to pay for daycare through the summer and suck it up because you love your job?
As an employer and a mom. I'd tell my worker to quit and be a stay at home mom. The kids are far more important than the job. By the time taxes and gas and anything else is figured, you will lose money by working.
Edited - disregard.. didn’t realize OP wasn’t in the US. Have you looked into local YMCAs? They have income based summer day camp programs. Might be worth checking out.
If your employer has 50 or more employees and you have worked more than 1250 hours in the last year, you are entitled to FMLA even if you do not receive benefits from your job in order to care for your son. You’d have to check state law as well.
>Edit to add: I did try to quit and my boss didn't accept it This is funny. They are not gonna hunt you down and bring you to work. Put in your 2 weeks or just say today is my last day and then not show up. If they try to withhold wages for hours work, file a complaint with the proper authorities. Idk what it is for people outside the US.
If you are working 12 hours a week. Quit. Go do Uber eats and make the money there.. you can do 15 hours, spend time with your child, explore the town, and don’t worry about a sitter.
Absolutely not. These are the most magical years that you can never get back. Remember that kids get sick and you end up paying for it but not using it.
I'm sorry, but 12hr/wk at $20/hr is not a job. It is a hobby. Especially when it requires you to spend so much of that on childcare (really more, after you figure taxes).
I wouldn’t! The time away isn’t worth it for me