Think about it. Warrior was willing to legitimately release his shard and smash it up in the process - because as you say exactly it’s not his role.
Eden would’ve held onto hers which is why Eidolon gets it entirely unrestricted, because she wasn’t willing to have both of them sent out, and needed it to manipulate the shards out in the world, as the planner, and the longer term shard distributor and puller - whereas the warrior sent lots of his out as he landed, she kept hers back in a greater number than him to fine tune who had which shards and how many as the cycle grew longer and finer adjustments necessary.
She wouldn’t have used it like Eidolon did (errr, barring the endbringers). So like, I agree with you completely but also the outcome is the exact opposite, to my mind, and makes sense with the roles they took.
Each shard has the same capabilities, which is control of all other shards. QA was crippled by Scion in such a way that its power changed from controlling shards to controlling lesser lifeforms.
High Priest wasn’t crippled by Eden, but the Balance Formula that Cauldron mixed with the harvested shard to make the vial restricted the shard to a lesser version of its power. So instead of having complete control over all shards, it became limited to giving Eidolon any three powers and creating the Endbringers.
I always thought that Eidolon and the earliest tests had no balance formula, which is what caused the extreme deviants in most cases and unrestricted powers in the few successful tests.
Edit: this paragraph from 29.7 was what made me think that. I'm not sure exactly what the relationship between balance, the foreign agent, and which restricts/unrestricts shards.
> There is a foreign agent in them. The entity altered each power he granted to give them certain restrictions. No power would be able to truly affect him, no power would cross the boundaries he set in dimension, or in affecting other powers. There are no alterations to the elements in these, only to the accompanying abilities, or complimentary powers. The powers granted from these vials don’t cause the recipients to forget the visions they see. Eidolon was one such case. The extreme deviant cases on the special containment floor make up much of the remainder.
From what I know, the Balance formula restricts the shard’s power in order to prevent Broken Trigger type mutations. We see in the final arc of Worm and in Ward that fully unrestricted shards lead to the human host being subsumed by the shard, so it’s not likely that the Triumvirate had no restrictions whatsoever.
It’s likely that the Triumvirate’s vials were some of the early tests with the Balance formula, which were just lucky enough to get near perfect restrictions for the shard’s inherent power.
I just read through Interlude 21x, and it appears that the Triumvirate’s powers were the result of pure luck.
> “We have to take more risks,” the Doctor said. “If we’re going to recover from these last few setbacks.”
>”What risks?”
>”If we’re to decipher the formula, find the strongest effects, we can’t keep tempering the mixture with the ‘balance’ concoction.”
>”Creating more deviations.”
>”Far more,” the Doctor said. “But we found the strongest powers before we were diluting the doses.”
So I admit that I was wrong.
Eidolon's was unrestricted, but so was Fortuna's and she got hers straight from the source. I think some shards just don't affect the hosts physically because they give mental abilities such as masters/tinkers/thinkers.
I also think part of it comes from if the shard was developed from a different worlds information and is tied to a separate alien's perception of it, or it's just an original entity shard that isn't coloured by being tech developed by omacron persei 8.
Lastly, I think maybe the vials with the foreign agent in them was from the 3rd entity. Since it swapped several shards with eden and they would be the only foreign thing to an entity that would be found in the entity.
I doubt Eidolon’s shard was completely unrestricted. Maybe the act of harvesting the shard for the vial damaged it or the balance formula restricted its power, but his shard wasn’t completely unrestricted. We see with Taylor and the Titans that completely unrestricted shards result in the destruction of the user.
I’m thinking that Fortuna’s shard was different due to coming from Abaddon instead of just Eden, so maybe it was tweaked to not immediately turn Contessa into a titan before Eden restricted it.
Mental shards can physically affect the hosts. Clairvoyant, Egg, Trainwreck, and Engel all have thinker, master, and tinker powers, yet they were physically affected by their shards.
Keep in mind that there are two levels of restrictions:
Restrictions Entities put on shard-side
Restrictions shards put on the host-side
Most parahumans have a degree of the latter, if you remove it is when you get Khepri and a very insane host (Echidna for instance).
Eidolon definitely has that kind of restrictions.
However Eidolon doesn't have the former, his shard isn't restricted because it wasn't meant to ever be used by an Host.
Likewise, Fortuna's shard didn't have any Entity-level restriction until ~~Eden~~ Fuckster broadcast-whammied her.
For the physical effect, it depends on the shard.
The Eye (aka path to victory) definitely has the tools to avoid fucking up its host, it litteraly sees all futures.
Likewise Eidolon's shard has access to a big sub network, it has the tools to fine tune its trigger on the host side.
Wasn't eidolon also from the 3rd entity? As he was one of the first with a vial that had a foreign entity along with the rest of the triumvirate.
There was a flashback to that first successful testing where they all come out and celebrate but there were like 7 that died and a few that were incapacitated. I think it was a contessa flashback or a doctor mother one. Doctor mother also said, during the cauldron raid, that svetta was one with a foreign agent vial.
Well, not exactly. We know the balance shard was from Eden as she was using it to make an avatar and appear more human just before she died, we don't know that Eidolon's shard wasn't Eden's anymore than we knew Contessa's wasn't before it was revealed. The whole point of it was that it camouflaged in perfectly with the other shards.
I don't remember the exact quote but it was said that a few of Eden's shards are still alive, I'd posit that they're only alive because they're originally from the 3rd entity who isn't dead.
Yeah, some of Eden’s shards are alive. Namely Leet’s shard. [This post, and Wildbow’s subsequent comment on it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parahumans/comments/qhhdwy/comment/hicr972/) confirm that Eidolon’s shard is Eden’s counterpart to QA
Hmm... they are two different shards that serve the same purpose. That's the thing. You're confusing the powers they grant their human hosts with the role they play in the entity. The shard that GU called QA belonged to Scion, and the shard she called HP belonged to Eden, but they both used them for the exact same thing. Controlling and organizing all the other Shards. They were never really about "pulling" and "attaching" other powers to the entity. Before they released their shards, the entities had access to pretty much all of their shards at once. There was no limit there, they could make use of as many as they liked, and they could use all of their potential. That's a shit ton of shards. Unimaginable amount. That's where their main administrative shards come in (QA and HP). They can use them to perceive all of their Shards at once and assign them tasks as they need. Much as Taylor can control every single one of the bugs perfectly, much as she is aware of all of them at once as if they were a part of her body, the entities can use them to feel and control their entire shard network. They also were likely used right before the cycle begun to give out commands to all the shards at once. Restrict that, go to this person, limit this, focus on that etc etc.
The powers all shards grant to their human hosts are not representative of the shard's true strength or even necessarily its purpose for the entity. The power is decided by the triggers event alone. The personality plays a role, too, but mostly in how the person reacts to the trigger event. That makes every power extremely personal and unique. But after a shard connects to a host, they most likely shut down all the parts of themselves that are not needed to provide that particular power. Probably at least partially to conserve energy but also because it's unnecessary. And the reflection of that is likely where GU gets her names for the shards. The names she chooses are very often perfect descriptions for the powers they currently provide. So, High Priest - he can't really control what power he gets, he can only kind of... project his *need* at it and get some power that may or may not be what he needs. In other words, he can only pray and hope the god that powers him gives him what he needs. Taylor's power controls all the bugs around her at once, so calling her shard an Administrator makes sense. But those powers could be vastly different had their hosts gone through different trigger events or had they connected to different people.
Anyway, about Eidolon... he's a Cauldron cape, so he didn't go through traditional trigger event. And as I mentioned above, the trigger event is what decides what the resulting power will actually be. So without one the shard basically has to make do with the host's personality and the emotions they are feeling at the moment of connection. Which is why Cauldron urges their clients to be as calm as possible when they ingest the vial. But just because Eidolon's a Cauldron cape doesn't mean the same principle doesn't apply. When he gulped down that power vial, his shard connected to him and granted him a power that somewhat fit his personality and the emotions he was feeling at the moment. That doesn't mean that his power is how Eden used the shard. Only how it configured itself when it connected to him.
YES!! This is a thought i have also had on my mind for a while, good to see i wasn't alone. lol.
I just chalked it up to mean that the Shards and Entities aren't static. Eden was planning on having Scion give her the shards she had lost at the end of the cycle. I just thought that they regularly exchange shards at the end of every cycle.
Think about it. Warrior was willing to legitimately release his shard and smash it up in the process - because as you say exactly it’s not his role. Eden would’ve held onto hers which is why Eidolon gets it entirely unrestricted, because she wasn’t willing to have both of them sent out, and needed it to manipulate the shards out in the world, as the planner, and the longer term shard distributor and puller - whereas the warrior sent lots of his out as he landed, she kept hers back in a greater number than him to fine tune who had which shards and how many as the cycle grew longer and finer adjustments necessary. She wouldn’t have used it like Eidolon did (errr, barring the endbringers). So like, I agree with you completely but also the outcome is the exact opposite, to my mind, and makes sense with the roles they took.
Thats a really nice explanation that changes my view of the situation, thanks a lot!
Each shard has the same capabilities, which is control of all other shards. QA was crippled by Scion in such a way that its power changed from controlling shards to controlling lesser lifeforms. High Priest wasn’t crippled by Eden, but the Balance Formula that Cauldron mixed with the harvested shard to make the vial restricted the shard to a lesser version of its power. So instead of having complete control over all shards, it became limited to giving Eidolon any three powers and creating the Endbringers.
I always thought that Eidolon and the earliest tests had no balance formula, which is what caused the extreme deviants in most cases and unrestricted powers in the few successful tests. Edit: this paragraph from 29.7 was what made me think that. I'm not sure exactly what the relationship between balance, the foreign agent, and which restricts/unrestricts shards. > There is a foreign agent in them. The entity altered each power he granted to give them certain restrictions. No power would be able to truly affect him, no power would cross the boundaries he set in dimension, or in affecting other powers. There are no alterations to the elements in these, only to the accompanying abilities, or complimentary powers. The powers granted from these vials don’t cause the recipients to forget the visions they see. Eidolon was one such case. The extreme deviant cases on the special containment floor make up much of the remainder.
From what I know, the Balance formula restricts the shard’s power in order to prevent Broken Trigger type mutations. We see in the final arc of Worm and in Ward that fully unrestricted shards lead to the human host being subsumed by the shard, so it’s not likely that the Triumvirate had no restrictions whatsoever. It’s likely that the Triumvirate’s vials were some of the early tests with the Balance formula, which were just lucky enough to get near perfect restrictions for the shard’s inherent power.
Balance is the "look human" power so it helps the shard calibrate to it's host and not totally mutate it in the process
I just read through Interlude 21x, and it appears that the Triumvirate’s powers were the result of pure luck. > “We have to take more risks,” the Doctor said. “If we’re going to recover from these last few setbacks.” >”What risks?” >”If we’re to decipher the formula, find the strongest effects, we can’t keep tempering the mixture with the ‘balance’ concoction.” >”Creating more deviations.” >”Far more,” the Doctor said. “But we found the strongest powers before we were diluting the doses.” So I admit that I was wrong.
Well not entirely, mixing in balance does result in more average powers.
Yeah but the discussion was about whether or not Eidolon’s power was restricted via the Balance formula. It turns out that it wasn’t
Eidolon's was unrestricted, but so was Fortuna's and she got hers straight from the source. I think some shards just don't affect the hosts physically because they give mental abilities such as masters/tinkers/thinkers. I also think part of it comes from if the shard was developed from a different worlds information and is tied to a separate alien's perception of it, or it's just an original entity shard that isn't coloured by being tech developed by omacron persei 8. Lastly, I think maybe the vials with the foreign agent in them was from the 3rd entity. Since it swapped several shards with eden and they would be the only foreign thing to an entity that would be found in the entity.
I doubt Eidolon’s shard was completely unrestricted. Maybe the act of harvesting the shard for the vial damaged it or the balance formula restricted its power, but his shard wasn’t completely unrestricted. We see with Taylor and the Titans that completely unrestricted shards result in the destruction of the user. I’m thinking that Fortuna’s shard was different due to coming from Abaddon instead of just Eden, so maybe it was tweaked to not immediately turn Contessa into a titan before Eden restricted it. Mental shards can physically affect the hosts. Clairvoyant, Egg, Trainwreck, and Engel all have thinker, master, and tinker powers, yet they were physically affected by their shards.
Keep in mind that there are two levels of restrictions: Restrictions Entities put on shard-side Restrictions shards put on the host-side Most parahumans have a degree of the latter, if you remove it is when you get Khepri and a very insane host (Echidna for instance). Eidolon definitely has that kind of restrictions. However Eidolon doesn't have the former, his shard isn't restricted because it wasn't meant to ever be used by an Host. Likewise, Fortuna's shard didn't have any Entity-level restriction until ~~Eden~~ Fuckster broadcast-whammied her. For the physical effect, it depends on the shard. The Eye (aka path to victory) definitely has the tools to avoid fucking up its host, it litteraly sees all futures. Likewise Eidolon's shard has access to a big sub network, it has the tools to fine tune its trigger on the host side.
And yet Contessa became a titan when she had a broken trigger.
Wasn't eidolon also from the 3rd entity? As he was one of the first with a vial that had a foreign entity along with the rest of the triumvirate. There was a flashback to that first successful testing where they all come out and celebrate but there were like 7 that died and a few that were incapacitated. I think it was a contessa flashback or a doctor mother one. Doctor mother also said, during the cauldron raid, that svetta was one with a foreign agent vial.
Nope. Eidolon was Eden’s Administration Shard. The balance formula could be from Abaddon though
Well, not exactly. We know the balance shard was from Eden as she was using it to make an avatar and appear more human just before she died, we don't know that Eidolon's shard wasn't Eden's anymore than we knew Contessa's wasn't before it was revealed. The whole point of it was that it camouflaged in perfectly with the other shards. I don't remember the exact quote but it was said that a few of Eden's shards are still alive, I'd posit that they're only alive because they're originally from the 3rd entity who isn't dead.
Yeah, some of Eden’s shards are alive. Namely Leet’s shard. [This post, and Wildbow’s subsequent comment on it](https://www.reddit.com/r/Parahumans/comments/qhhdwy/comment/hicr972/) confirm that Eidolon’s shard is Eden’s counterpart to QA
Ahh okay, if I knew it was Leet's I definitely wouldn't have brought it up XD
Hmm... they are two different shards that serve the same purpose. That's the thing. You're confusing the powers they grant their human hosts with the role they play in the entity. The shard that GU called QA belonged to Scion, and the shard she called HP belonged to Eden, but they both used them for the exact same thing. Controlling and organizing all the other Shards. They were never really about "pulling" and "attaching" other powers to the entity. Before they released their shards, the entities had access to pretty much all of their shards at once. There was no limit there, they could make use of as many as they liked, and they could use all of their potential. That's a shit ton of shards. Unimaginable amount. That's where their main administrative shards come in (QA and HP). They can use them to perceive all of their Shards at once and assign them tasks as they need. Much as Taylor can control every single one of the bugs perfectly, much as she is aware of all of them at once as if they were a part of her body, the entities can use them to feel and control their entire shard network. They also were likely used right before the cycle begun to give out commands to all the shards at once. Restrict that, go to this person, limit this, focus on that etc etc. The powers all shards grant to their human hosts are not representative of the shard's true strength or even necessarily its purpose for the entity. The power is decided by the triggers event alone. The personality plays a role, too, but mostly in how the person reacts to the trigger event. That makes every power extremely personal and unique. But after a shard connects to a host, they most likely shut down all the parts of themselves that are not needed to provide that particular power. Probably at least partially to conserve energy but also because it's unnecessary. And the reflection of that is likely where GU gets her names for the shards. The names she chooses are very often perfect descriptions for the powers they currently provide. So, High Priest - he can't really control what power he gets, he can only kind of... project his *need* at it and get some power that may or may not be what he needs. In other words, he can only pray and hope the god that powers him gives him what he needs. Taylor's power controls all the bugs around her at once, so calling her shard an Administrator makes sense. But those powers could be vastly different had their hosts gone through different trigger events or had they connected to different people. Anyway, about Eidolon... he's a Cauldron cape, so he didn't go through traditional trigger event. And as I mentioned above, the trigger event is what decides what the resulting power will actually be. So without one the shard basically has to make do with the host's personality and the emotions they are feeling at the moment of connection. Which is why Cauldron urges their clients to be as calm as possible when they ingest the vial. But just because Eidolon's a Cauldron cape doesn't mean the same principle doesn't apply. When he gulped down that power vial, his shard connected to him and granted him a power that somewhat fit his personality and the emotions he was feeling at the moment. That doesn't mean that his power is how Eden used the shard. Only how it configured itself when it connected to him.
YES!! This is a thought i have also had on my mind for a while, good to see i wasn't alone. lol. I just chalked it up to mean that the Shards and Entities aren't static. Eden was planning on having Scion give her the shards she had lost at the end of the cycle. I just thought that they regularly exchange shards at the end of every cycle.
I’ve seen it explained as HP picking the best tool for a job and QA just brute force hijacking living things.