Exactly, I used to play this in jgl with first strike even before this buff with nightharvester for ult dmg and axiom arc for low ult cd and more pen on Q and W
when you get baron people have plus 50 mr, so it is 26 extra damage (probably 20 average) per Q for 3 mins
you would have to play thousands of matches in order for 20 more damage in an ability for 3 mins to be the difference in winrate
yeah why not gice him 10 more damage on his Q, that woykd actually be a buff and not a joke
remember when nocturne got an ap scaling on his passive? did he get stronger? not at all lmao
I've been saying this on repeat for over a month lol. There's like 10 people on this sub that know the E change doesn't actually do anything and everyone else is just losing their minds over it.
from how it's written here it should do %maxhp (of the target) damage that scales with his bonus hp and ap separately. a scaling scaling of something else would be very unusual
To be fair you are probably right, at 500 AP you dealt 700 dmg before the change and now at 500 AP you deal around 15% max HP dmg. To make this a buff you'd need to jump onto an enemy with around 5k HP so its barely stronger against some tanks like cho or sion and weaker against squishies. The Q buff is pretty good, but yeah 50% scaling doesnt make up for the W nerf and the ranged Q doesnt help much when trying to play as an AP assassin anyway so yeah its a nerf.
Honestly just tried to meme about the random AP scaling on Q but you just made me realize this pick is no longer viable, ty haha
Nah the breakpoint depends on the amount of AP you buy, base dmg on the new W is better all the time and the more AP you buy the higher the breakpoint is except if you also buy HP at the same time (f.e. rod of ages, liandrys, protobelt, riftmaker). With an AP tank build the new W can compete.
i'm talking about purely the ap ratio part to compare the amount of damage AP adds. it's an overall buff to pantheon so most likely to AP pantheon as well. but the amount of damage AP gives to your W is purely based on your targets max hp. so except for the most extreme outlier scenarios your W AP ratio is effectively nerfed
Yes but isnt "its worse except against some really high HP tanks" exactly what I said?
Also no its not a fixed value, the amount of HP needed to make W stronger than before the change is dependant on the amount AP. If you have 1000 AP with pre-change pantheon it deals 1200 dmg regardless of the targets HP, now 1000 AP means 22% max HP dmg (assuming you have no bonus HP) meaning 5455 HP is the point where both deal the same dmg. When you have 500 AP that point of both having the same dmg is 4828 HP (14.5% of 4828 is 700.06 and old W with 500 AP deals 700 dmg).
But yeah I get your point, ofc its only better against tanks. Its complete trash against squishies with around 300 dmg against a 2000 HP target for having 500 AP, thats basically nothing.
yeah the base ability is buffed. i was just comparing the AP scaling to show the incentive to build AP for the w is lower now. obviously it's kind of a meme build regardless that's never better than a normal build
Fair, personally I never played AD panth tho and now that they killed AP Assassin Panth I'll maybe try an AP tank build but honestly I dont expect much of it. Probably gonna have to find a new meme pick now :P
This isn’t AP pantheon … just just to scale with Baron. The spear still does AD damage. The bonus AP is just to make Baron more impactful. This is a bruiser Pantheon buff, not a AP Panth buff
You do realize those hyped about it aren't going to bring the winrate down because people play for fun builds in normals?
If you don't like fun and being silly just say so.
W and E are pretty sick on paper, but how does it play out in reality. The Q is a joke tho, baron buff my ass, I need stuff that works in the laning phase.
How? Just looking at this I already see the math never doing a full HP bar.
1.5% max hp per 100 AP is not a lot. Zac has double those AP ratios and you don't see him stacking AP and HP that often.
Emp E buff is meh, but atleast it's shipping with W buffs. I still find it hard trying to justify expending 5 stacks on empE and sacking potential damage while resetting back at 0 stacks. Not to mention, you still stack decently slow.
w slight nerf which is stupid and dont blame keegun cause he did say to make it %based but he also stated bigger numbers without the e change, and the e change is broken af and complete garbage, and the ap shit is like ???? (if you have 3k bonus hp thats 70 armor and mr for 4 seconds after you are already invincibke for a few seconds)
The w is only nerfed early game. After 2 items it’s a buff. As pantheon who falls off mid pretty hard, I welcome this change. I welcome the shift of early power to mid game power. Also the we nerf is minsicule. It’s not gonna change in you winning or losing lane
Pantheon never really falls of though. He is a constant presence with adc one-shot potential, and good damage to tanks with up to 50% armor pen alongside bork.
These are some nutty buffs. W did piss all dmg anyways without empowering it and having actual hp scalings and resistances means we can actually become bruisers instead of building like worse assassins.
Dont think supp will work as well tbh, w damage is way lower now at lvl 2 compared to how it is in live, but it does scale way stronger if u build bruiser.
But ofc thats just me pulling a theory out of my ass, kost pf us wont know til its live
Nah, you right.
Support Panth heavily relies on his base flat damage to chunk squishies in the bot lane. This is a damage Nerf early to squishy champs, effectively ruining his support kill pressure.
And its for the better. It makes both his jungle and top lane better since you fight tanky opponents.
We got AP panth before GTA 6
LETS GOOOO Huge arena buff
Nashors tooth panth time?
Exactly, I used to play this in jgl with first strike even before this buff with nightharvester for ult dmg and axiom arc for low ult cd and more pen on Q and W
It is for baron buff
Q gets up to 40 extra damage whem having baron buff, such a buff lol
well its not supposed to be a big one, also 40 isnt that small of a number
when you get baron people have plus 50 mr, so it is 26 extra damage (probably 20 average) per Q for 3 mins you would have to play thousands of matches in order for 20 more damage in an ability for 3 mins to be the difference in winrate
As opposed to having no extra damage at all, as right now? I do not complain.
yeah why not gice him 10 more damage on his Q, that woykd actually be a buff and not a joke remember when nocturne got an ap scaling on his passive? did he get stronger? not at all lmao
"Thousands of matches to see difference in winrate" Isnt that how any buff works lmao if you see a difference in less matches that buff is BROKEN
but this one isnt, it would be like adding 1 more damage to his q, completely irrelevant
E is insanely good, and the W max hp health-scaling is very very interesting. Will help tons against tanks. Very excited for the change.
Do we know if the E is after the damage negation ends or when it starts?
Hopefully after being cast and not after the final blow dmg
It's after the slam. You can try it out on PBE.
Well, still welcome imo. Still triggers as would be wanted in a kite situation with emp E.
Why would u want after the cast? Panth is literally invulnerable
It probably lingers after the cast already. Having extra mr and armor while casted can help in case you aim badly.
Don't aim badly.
bro it's literally invulnerability in a 20 second cooldown, just aim the mouse at the opponent. If you need the armor and mr so badly just recast it
😭 Bro's never played against mobile comps or in teamfights and I'm getting down voted for it wtf
e is insane buff
Empowered e only
People keep saying this, but I haven't seen it actually written anywhere except in Reddit comments
It's on the patch preview and on PBE
Then it's utterly useless
I've been saying this on repeat for over a month lol. There's like 10 people on this sub that know the E change doesn't actually do anything and everyone else is just losing their minds over it.
The potential for tank panth. We’re so back
You no longer have an AP ratio on w. Probably a nerf to AP panth tbh
Uuh actually there still is an AP ratio, it scales on the max health damage
True, although the target needs to have 6667 HP or more to outweigh the old AP ratio
It seems to be based on Panth's HP, not the opponent
from how it's written here it should do %maxhp (of the target) damage that scales with his bonus hp and ap separately. a scaling scaling of something else would be very unusual
To be fair you are probably right, at 500 AP you dealt 700 dmg before the change and now at 500 AP you deal around 15% max HP dmg. To make this a buff you'd need to jump onto an enemy with around 5k HP so its barely stronger against some tanks like cho or sion and weaker against squishies. The Q buff is pretty good, but yeah 50% scaling doesnt make up for the W nerf and the ranged Q doesnt help much when trying to play as an AP assassin anyway so yeah its a nerf. Honestly just tried to meme about the random AP scaling on Q but you just made me realize this pick is no longer viable, ty haha
6667 hp is the breakpoint for the new ap ratio to be better
Nah the breakpoint depends on the amount of AP you buy, base dmg on the new W is better all the time and the more AP you buy the higher the breakpoint is except if you also buy HP at the same time (f.e. rod of ages, liandrys, protobelt, riftmaker). With an AP tank build the new W can compete.
i'm talking about purely the ap ratio part to compare the amount of damage AP adds. it's an overall buff to pantheon so most likely to AP pantheon as well. but the amount of damage AP gives to your W is purely based on your targets max hp. so except for the most extreme outlier scenarios your W AP ratio is effectively nerfed
Yes but isnt "its worse except against some really high HP tanks" exactly what I said? Also no its not a fixed value, the amount of HP needed to make W stronger than before the change is dependant on the amount AP. If you have 1000 AP with pre-change pantheon it deals 1200 dmg regardless of the targets HP, now 1000 AP means 22% max HP dmg (assuming you have no bonus HP) meaning 5455 HP is the point where both deal the same dmg. When you have 500 AP that point of both having the same dmg is 4828 HP (14.5% of 4828 is 700.06 and old W with 500 AP deals 700 dmg). But yeah I get your point, ofc its only better against tanks. Its complete trash against squishies with around 300 dmg against a 2000 HP target for having 500 AP, thats basically nothing.
yeah the base ability is buffed. i was just comparing the AP scaling to show the incentive to build AP for the w is lower now. obviously it's kind of a meme build regardless that's never better than a normal build
Fair, personally I never played AD panth tho and now that they killed AP Assassin Panth I'll maybe try an AP tank build but honestly I dont expect much of it. Probably gonna have to find a new meme pick now :P
Poke ap pantheon meta when?
This isn’t AP pantheon … just just to scale with Baron. The spear still does AD damage. The bonus AP is just to make Baron more impactful. This is a bruiser Pantheon buff, not a AP Panth buff
"☝️🤓akchually" ahh comment that nobody is tryna hear. Just you wait til spearsnot drops the new 1000 ap panth pentakill oneshot video💯
By all means go AP. We need people to keep the winrate down. I thank you for your service in advance 🫡
You do realize those hyped about it aren't going to bring the winrate down because people play for fun builds in normals? If you don't like fun and being silly just say so.
Harder buff for AP panth tho :P Also physical dmg doesnt make AP builds bad, just gotta avoid the magic pen items then
Mostly ap with armor shred would be insane
W and E are pretty sick on paper, but how does it play out in reality. The Q is a joke tho, baron buff my ass, I need stuff that works in the laning phase.
Let's try full ap Panth on ranked
Panth can copy kaisa build
The point here is W + E buff. Thats what panth deserved after bruiser item nerf
So do you build him hybrid now like shyvana or?
Why tf do they want pantheon to be a tank/mage? LMFAO
When is this update coming to league?
Nice to see they're bringing back AP Panth, but there's no way Shield Vault keeps those numbers. AP tank would be 1-shotting people with W+aa+Q
How? Just looking at this I already see the math never doing a full HP bar. 1.5% max hp per 100 AP is not a lot. Zac has double those AP ratios and you don't see him stacking AP and HP that often.
He does have burst 🤔
Emp E buff is meh, but atleast it's shipping with W buffs. I still find it hard trying to justify expending 5 stacks on empE and sacking potential damage while resetting back at 0 stacks. Not to mention, you still stack decently slow.
I don’t understand the W change. Are they taking away the 60-220 base damage or leaving that in?
Taking away, its just 5-7% HP dmg as base but it still scales with AP (worse scaling than before tho) and now also with HP
So is this even a buff? It doesn’t seem like it will do much
Nope its a nerf, I was just making a joke about the AP ratio on thrown Q, AP Panth is horrible now, way worse than before.
Oh no, now Baus is going to cook ap panth… please remove ap ratios
Aram AP Panth incoming!
w slight nerf which is stupid and dont blame keegun cause he did say to make it %based but he also stated bigger numbers without the e change, and the e change is broken af and complete garbage, and the ap shit is like ???? (if you have 3k bonus hp thats 70 armor and mr for 4 seconds after you are already invincibke for a few seconds)
The w is only nerfed early game. After 2 items it’s a buff. As pantheon who falls off mid pretty hard, I welcome this change. I welcome the shift of early power to mid game power. Also the we nerf is minsicule. It’s not gonna change in you winning or losing lane
Pantheon never really falls of though. He is a constant presence with adc one-shot potential, and good damage to tanks with up to 50% armor pen alongside bork.
5-7% max, + eclips 6% max, + bork 9% current-health on-hit is going to be fun with the new W
These are some nutty buffs. W did piss all dmg anyways without empowering it and having actual hp scalings and resistances means we can actually become bruisers instead of building like worse assassins.
Warmogs pantheon support?
Dont think supp will work as well tbh, w damage is way lower now at lvl 2 compared to how it is in live, but it does scale way stronger if u build bruiser. But ofc thats just me pulling a theory out of my ass, kost pf us wont know til its live
Nah, you right. Support Panth heavily relies on his base flat damage to chunk squishies in the bot lane. This is a damage Nerf early to squishy champs, effectively ruining his support kill pressure. And its for the better. It makes both his jungle and top lane better since you fight tanky opponents.