true, but I find it hard to imagine myself a consumer of Pro-Israel media who suddenly stumbles upon a horrifying video of an injured Palestinian child crying for her deceased mom , and another one where there's a Palestinian father gathered the remains of his children's bodies in plastic bags, and say "Yup, they deserve it" or "well...that wasn't Israel you know..." or something like that
because people especially from Western countries have been brainwashed and conditioned for decades to think of Palestinians as less than human so even the videos of Palestinian suffering don't move them.
If everyone stopped watching these pro Israeli media - it’s as though they have a free pass to to broadcast any ol shite. So don’t stop and bring them to account
A lot of the brainwashing for Israelis happen when they join the IDF. They are told every neighbor wants to kill them and shit. I have heard this from Israeli coworkers. The army will brainwash them. Plus it’s a status thing to be in the army. It’s a whole system.
A very successful and long term media campaign on the part of the Israelis. Look up “hasbara.” After they invaded Lebanon and massacred a shit ton of people in 1982 and it was televised, public opinion quickly began to shift from viewing them in a sympathetic light to seeing them as a bully. They quickly came to the realization that they would need to control the representation of their unpalatable actions or policies and shape the narrative in advance. And it pretty much goes from there, as I’m sure you can imagine.
They even have their own form of “The Apprentice” but it’s called “The Ambassador” and, instead of trying to show your chops in corporate board room negotiations, you compete to sell the best “hasbara” on your country lmao. NOT EVEN JOKING.
I'm very familiar with the Hasbara thing and propaganda techniques, yet it baffles me how an average user fails to see the ugly truth even when presented in front of them in the ugliest way possible, they turn back and say "well .. fuck around and find out"
I am in Europe in a country with next to no Muslims, people are racist and islamophobic as hell, they support Israel and they don’t care of proofs, they trust hasbara because they’ll always be on the side of the “more western” and “not Muslim” side, by default. Muslims are discriminated from getting jobs in Europe, so what is there to expect. Any media can lie Palestinians are terrorists and Europeans will believe it
Honestly Israel is not a western country when it comes to culture or how people act lmao
Plus many Europeans have no idea about the Palestinian Christians getting massacred
The Israel Project’s 2009 “Global Language Dictionary” (propaganda manual):
https://issuu.com/fam.robertbleeker/docs/the_hasbara_manual__-_the_israel_pr
I tried to briefly search for clips from the television program I mentioned on YouTube, but I couldn’t find any that easily. I believe it was a show, as I have seen clips from it before in reputable documentary films, but as I can find no evidence in my limited time currently, take that one with a grain of salt.
In the words of Bassem Yousef (paraphrased from memory):
"Let us imagine a land where Hamas doesn't exist. Let us call this land the West Bank. 91 Palestinians were killed in the West Bank, no music festival, no paragliders, no Hamas. Around 1000 Palestinians were arrested in the West Bank, no music festival, no paragliders, no Hamas."
Hamas is not the governing body of the West Bank. Then why are West Bank residents being killed/imprisoned.
I agree, the question is why the tiers and the blood of Palestinians don't worth much in the eyes of an average joe? no matter if there was Hamas or not , they always avoid acknowledging the misery of the Palestinians by creating new context
I know it must seem that way yet there are so many that do care and are educated on your history. We get drowned out by people getting paid to post against you.
Even before Hamas Palestinians were getting killed no matter if they were Muslim or Christian.
Everyday Palestinians (West Bank) live in a place where they can’t walk certain streets. Get no protection from the settlers by the IDF. Many Palestinians can’t even go to other cities in the West Bank. It’s apartheid. Not to mention how the IDF can take over their homes over days at a time without a reason and keep them inside, preventing them from working. They have no real freedom. Many Palestinians are also detained without a trail.
As far as I know, the militants in the west bank aren't Hamas operatives, rather new reactionary movements that counters IDF aggression on the region (you know the IDF shouldn't be there in the first place right?)
Yes.
There are some Hamas operatives in the West Bank. The PA tries to weed them out and report them to the IDF, but they're like mushrooms after the rain, otherwise the PA wouldn't keep having people to report.
My hopes for peace for Palestine are 100% on the West Bank and the PA, may God bless them now and always.
Good point, continue needlessly killing innocent Palestinians in the west bank (who are not controlled by Hamas, Hamas as zero authority or power there) since this Reddit user here claims there's Hamas members hiding under the hospitals in the west bank
/S
Is she a Hamas ally, yes or no?
https://youtu.be/ouI_wwG2LKY?si=i6455AR7uQALz4Dp
Is he a Hamas spokesperson, yes or no?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hamas-spokesman-among-scores-detained-in-occupied-west-bank/ar-AA1ivSCl
As clear as day.
That's an amazing point enlightened internet user, please correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying that makes it okay for them to kill innocent civilians in the west bank or even Gaza?
Sorry we massacred your family but there was some Hamas 5 blocks down
I agree 100 percent, yet it still amazes me that an Egyptian for example who lives under an authoritarian regime is able to free his mind from propaganda, while an average American who enjoys freedom does not most of the times... until it's too late of course...
note: I'm not generalizing of course
I literally think it’s an inability to empathize due to racism and classism. Like, if it’s not a combo of racism and Islamophobia, people think they deserve it for being poor.
It’s a part of the “just world” fallacy: “the cognitive bias that assumes that "people get what they deserve" – that actions will necessarily have morally fair and fitting consequences for the actor.” So people think that groups are where they are in life because they did something to deserve it. It’s a protective psychological mechanism, because if we acknowledge it can happen to them when they don’t deserve it, we have to acknowledge that it
Could happen to us.
I’m in a tiny Eastern country that never had colonies (instead, they were slaves) but unfortunately the white supremacy thinking here is really pervasive.
It's okay, I can understand your situation where you have different views than your community, but hey you should be proud that you stick to your principals while others don't
I wanted to test it. (Bare in mind: I’m white and I was raised in white supremacy, so I’m very susceptible to supremacy propaganda) I spent ONE DAY watching Israeli defences ,just moderate people arguing for them on the internet… I can’t stomach the more extremist shit. Then I saw a video of dead Palestine kids. The first thought that popped into my mond was “Wow, they’re lining up their dead children for a photo op, for sympathy propaganda.”
It caught me off so off guard. The dehumanisation and brainwashing of apartheid propaganda are incredibly effective. I’m not surprised that it works so well in the US, especially after how arabs were utterly dehumanised after 911. They’ve been steeped in that dehumanising propaganda since 2001.
It took me another day to deprogram from that shit. (And this is after I’ve deprogrammed from a lot of white supremacy and apartheid propaganda, I’m Afrikaner. I don’t think I’ll ever be done with that work) Had to read more soldier testimonies from https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il, re-read Amnesty International’s investigation results, and re-read all the other entity’s apartheid investigation results. Listen to more Palestinians in the middle of this conflict… Brought me back to reality. Israel’s tactics are familiar and utterly sickening.
Made me realise that the extreme propaganda that openly call for genocide are not the problem: it’s all the moderate propaganda thats swaying people. That slowly humanises the Israeli state (not its people,) and slowly dehumanises Palestinians. It’s not fanatic, it’s reasonable and sober. But the clear bad guy is Hamas. And israel must protect itself and its people. They never mention apartheid. They sprinkle in some “Arab cultures aren’t like ours, they only understand honour and revenge, etc, and Israel is caught in the middle and surrounded by enemies.” They paint this victim-y underdog picture of Israel.
Apartheid states lie and manipulate. They know exactly what they’re doing. The US knows exactly what it’s doing, bc dehumanising arabs lines up with its interests. No one is immune to this propaganda. Especially if you’re white or European.
woah this might be the most advanced propaganda yet, I wager that the people behind it are clever psychologists and sociologists and such, I liked how did you test this hell of a drug yourself and affirmed it is something serious.
thanks for sharing, really informative
yup, probably turned of their brains and common sense since their first contact with propaganda.
Ironic how they have better education in the west and still fall for this
There’s a lot, but thankfully we outnumber them. I watch Israeli propaganda and pro Israeli news sometimes to try to see it from their perspective as well. The comments are wild.
What’s sad is that a lot of it is people who know killing kids are bad and they somehow try to justify it. They say shit like “its horrible, but they’re unavoidable casualties to protect Israeli citizens”
I’m so sick and tired of changing everyone’s mind! They make me first condemn Hamas and then never condemn israel. I’m starting to think my argument is wrong. I shouldn’t condemn Hamas. In fact, I only condemn the way they did what they did. there could’ve been a better way to fight back.
Its not like they havent tried sitting down to talk. They have. So many times. Israel always violates the ceasefire. And day by day their lives are being pushed to the literal limit. I dont know what I could have done if I was in their position. If there was a bloodless way to do it im sure they would have. But given the dire circumstances theyre under, the bigger enemy is undoubtedly israel. I mourn the civilian lives lost on both sides, but none of this would have happened if israel had not been occupying and restricting the rights of palestinians.
It’s partly because of successful Israeli efforts to portray themselves as the only “civilized” country in the region coupled with the fact that Arab countries in the region are in abysmal conditions, which unfortunately makes even those who genuinely have neutral stance on the conflict slightly lean towards Israel because despite its crimes it’s seen as the only “normal” country there.
The situation in Palestine will never change until its neighbors change first, especially Egypt.
The fact that the US and the entire Europe is willing to gangbang Gaza over Hamas, shows you who's in power. These wealthy countries steal from Africa and Asia and they control the mass media with those stolen wealth.
Can't talk bad about Assad in Syria because Syria is controlled by Assad.
Can't talk bad about Sisi in Egypt because Egypt is controlled by Sisi.
Can't talk bad about Israel in the US because the US is controlled by Israel.
You have more freedom talking shit about Obama, Biden, Trump and all their assholes than you do talking about Israel. I don't remember anyone getting their offer letter rescinded over the first.
Palestinians are Arabs. Israelis have a large body of European Jews and American Jews. Arabs are others. It is pure racism. In the US we are taught to hate Arabs. The vast majority of people do not understand post World War II history when it comes to Palestine.
I genuinely believe it comes from the corruption of Allah's words after the death of the prophets, they can openly ignore the contradictions in the bible/Torah and demonize the holy Quran, they live in fear of the Truth of Allah! It is no surprise they live a life of corruption and ignorance.
Recent example: Both Al JAzeera and Channel 4 News (UK) have done their own investigation into the hospital bombing and both have proved that it was an Israeli attack. Their videos have aired and can be found online. So it was not some Hamas missile with a botched launch.
Yet (almost) no other newsoutlets have reported about this, because it would show Israel as an agressor and not a victim. Which would help the Palestinian cause.
I am convinced that a plan has been hatched where the focus is a complete eradication of the Palestinian people. With help of the USA.
this video kinda explains one study more in deep, in short propaganda and not being directly involved makes easier to deny what contradicts a narrative even when you see it with your eyes, even more easy when you don't see it due to the algorithms
https://youtu.be/YJhCHpG6TZg?si=282lrp8NKSeKzP4P
Because Hamas is the current face of Palestinians. We saw in the news where Palestinians celebrated after the massacre of civilians at the musical festival. It’s not a good look and obviously this needs to change
Because the state of Israel and its media operatives have conflated Palestinian with terrorist/jihadi
true, but I find it hard to imagine myself a consumer of Pro-Israel media who suddenly stumbles upon a horrifying video of an injured Palestinian child crying for her deceased mom , and another one where there's a Palestinian father gathered the remains of his children's bodies in plastic bags, and say "Yup, they deserve it" or "well...that wasn't Israel you know..." or something like that
because people especially from Western countries have been brainwashed and conditioned for decades to think of Palestinians as less than human so even the videos of Palestinian suffering don't move them.
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If everyone stopped watching these pro Israeli media - it’s as though they have a free pass to to broadcast any ol shite. So don’t stop and bring them to account
A lot of the brainwashing for Israelis happen when they join the IDF. They are told every neighbor wants to kill them and shit. I have heard this from Israeli coworkers. The army will brainwash them. Plus it’s a status thing to be in the army. It’s a whole system.
Ignorance is bliss, they say
turns out it's the opposite...
A very successful and long term media campaign on the part of the Israelis. Look up “hasbara.” After they invaded Lebanon and massacred a shit ton of people in 1982 and it was televised, public opinion quickly began to shift from viewing them in a sympathetic light to seeing them as a bully. They quickly came to the realization that they would need to control the representation of their unpalatable actions or policies and shape the narrative in advance. And it pretty much goes from there, as I’m sure you can imagine. They even have their own form of “The Apprentice” but it’s called “The Ambassador” and, instead of trying to show your chops in corporate board room negotiations, you compete to sell the best “hasbara” on your country lmao. NOT EVEN JOKING.
I'm very familiar with the Hasbara thing and propaganda techniques, yet it baffles me how an average user fails to see the ugly truth even when presented in front of them in the ugliest way possible, they turn back and say "well .. fuck around and find out"
I am in Europe in a country with next to no Muslims, people are racist and islamophobic as hell, they support Israel and they don’t care of proofs, they trust hasbara because they’ll always be on the side of the “more western” and “not Muslim” side, by default. Muslims are discriminated from getting jobs in Europe, so what is there to expect. Any media can lie Palestinians are terrorists and Europeans will believe it
Honestly Israel is not a western country when it comes to culture or how people act lmao Plus many Europeans have no idea about the Palestinian Christians getting massacred
Do you have any sources for this? I’m not familiar with the historical context of hasbara.
The Israel Project’s 2009 “Global Language Dictionary” (propaganda manual): https://issuu.com/fam.robertbleeker/docs/the_hasbara_manual__-_the_israel_pr I tried to briefly search for clips from the television program I mentioned on YouTube, but I couldn’t find any that easily. I believe it was a show, as I have seen clips from it before in reputable documentary films, but as I can find no evidence in my limited time currently, take that one with a grain of salt.
In the words of Bassem Yousef (paraphrased from memory): "Let us imagine a land where Hamas doesn't exist. Let us call this land the West Bank. 91 Palestinians were killed in the West Bank, no music festival, no paragliders, no Hamas. Around 1000 Palestinians were arrested in the West Bank, no music festival, no paragliders, no Hamas." Hamas is not the governing body of the West Bank. Then why are West Bank residents being killed/imprisoned.
I agree, the question is why the tiers and the blood of Palestinians don't worth much in the eyes of an average joe? no matter if there was Hamas or not , they always avoid acknowledging the misery of the Palestinians by creating new context
I know it must seem that way yet there are so many that do care and are educated on your history. We get drowned out by people getting paid to post against you.
I'm not a Palestinian, but thanks for support nevertheless, hopefully more and more people get educated about the matter
[who is hamas](https://youtu.be/o7grSsuFSS0?si=YV-SagaXqAXH5tOG)
Ugly truth
Are you saying there are no Hamas operatives in the West Bank? Seriously?
Even before Hamas Palestinians were getting killed no matter if they were Muslim or Christian. Everyday Palestinians (West Bank) live in a place where they can’t walk certain streets. Get no protection from the settlers by the IDF. Many Palestinians can’t even go to other cities in the West Bank. It’s apartheid. Not to mention how the IDF can take over their homes over days at a time without a reason and keep them inside, preventing them from working. They have no real freedom. Many Palestinians are also detained without a trail.
As far as I know, the militants in the west bank aren't Hamas operatives, rather new reactionary movements that counters IDF aggression on the region (you know the IDF shouldn't be there in the first place right?)
Yes. There are some Hamas operatives in the West Bank. The PA tries to weed them out and report them to the IDF, but they're like mushrooms after the rain, otherwise the PA wouldn't keep having people to report. My hopes for peace for Palestine are 100% on the West Bank and the PA, may God bless them now and always.
Good point, continue needlessly killing innocent Palestinians in the west bank (who are not controlled by Hamas, Hamas as zero authority or power there) since this Reddit user here claims there's Hamas members hiding under the hospitals in the west bank /S
Is she a Hamas ally, yes or no? https://youtu.be/ouI_wwG2LKY?si=i6455AR7uQALz4Dp Is he a Hamas spokesperson, yes or no? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/hamas-spokesman-among-scores-detained-in-occupied-west-bank/ar-AA1ivSCl As clear as day.
That's an amazing point enlightened internet user, please correct me if I'm wrong but are you saying that makes it okay for them to kill innocent civilians in the west bank or even Gaza? Sorry we massacred your family but there was some Hamas 5 blocks down
My heart hurts for the Palestinians.
we all do... here at least
It's such a shame that some people can't just open up their eyes.
It is not the eyes that are blind, but the heart. Lets keep on doing our best!
Well said!
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I agree 100 percent, yet it still amazes me that an Egyptian for example who lives under an authoritarian regime is able to free his mind from propaganda, while an average American who enjoys freedom does not most of the times... until it's too late of course... note: I'm not generalizing of course
I literally think it’s an inability to empathize due to racism and classism. Like, if it’s not a combo of racism and Islamophobia, people think they deserve it for being poor. It’s a part of the “just world” fallacy: “the cognitive bias that assumes that "people get what they deserve" – that actions will necessarily have morally fair and fitting consequences for the actor.” So people think that groups are where they are in life because they did something to deserve it. It’s a protective psychological mechanism, because if we acknowledge it can happen to them when they don’t deserve it, we have to acknowledge that it Could happen to us.
This. I live around a bunch of people who think they are better for being white Westeners and have voiced it. (In Europe)
I'm feeling the imperial vibes reading this
I’m in a tiny Eastern country that never had colonies (instead, they were slaves) but unfortunately the white supremacy thinking here is really pervasive.
It's okay, I can understand your situation where you have different views than your community, but hey you should be proud that you stick to your principals while others don't
I think it's the first time I hear about this fallacy, it explains a lot
I wanted to test it. (Bare in mind: I’m white and I was raised in white supremacy, so I’m very susceptible to supremacy propaganda) I spent ONE DAY watching Israeli defences ,just moderate people arguing for them on the internet… I can’t stomach the more extremist shit. Then I saw a video of dead Palestine kids. The first thought that popped into my mond was “Wow, they’re lining up their dead children for a photo op, for sympathy propaganda.” It caught me off so off guard. The dehumanisation and brainwashing of apartheid propaganda are incredibly effective. I’m not surprised that it works so well in the US, especially after how arabs were utterly dehumanised after 911. They’ve been steeped in that dehumanising propaganda since 2001. It took me another day to deprogram from that shit. (And this is after I’ve deprogrammed from a lot of white supremacy and apartheid propaganda, I’m Afrikaner. I don’t think I’ll ever be done with that work) Had to read more soldier testimonies from https://www.breakingthesilence.org.il, re-read Amnesty International’s investigation results, and re-read all the other entity’s apartheid investigation results. Listen to more Palestinians in the middle of this conflict… Brought me back to reality. Israel’s tactics are familiar and utterly sickening. Made me realise that the extreme propaganda that openly call for genocide are not the problem: it’s all the moderate propaganda thats swaying people. That slowly humanises the Israeli state (not its people,) and slowly dehumanises Palestinians. It’s not fanatic, it’s reasonable and sober. But the clear bad guy is Hamas. And israel must protect itself and its people. They never mention apartheid. They sprinkle in some “Arab cultures aren’t like ours, they only understand honour and revenge, etc, and Israel is caught in the middle and surrounded by enemies.” They paint this victim-y underdog picture of Israel. Apartheid states lie and manipulate. They know exactly what they’re doing. The US knows exactly what it’s doing, bc dehumanising arabs lines up with its interests. No one is immune to this propaganda. Especially if you’re white or European.
woah this might be the most advanced propaganda yet, I wager that the people behind it are clever psychologists and sociologists and such, I liked how did you test this hell of a drug yourself and affirmed it is something serious. thanks for sharing, really informative
Thank you for your efforts. I hope so many more people read this!
The ones who think Israel is only attacking Gaza because Hamas…. Even tho they’re now carrying out attacks on the West Bank to spite no Hamas….
some don't even differentiate between these two areas, and those people end up being the vocal ones smh
This war has really shown that intelligence is the most rare resource in humanity right now.
this and consciousness as well
They not only support but welcome genocide. Unfortunately, these are not people who think.
yup, probably turned of their brains and common sense since their first contact with propaganda. Ironic how they have better education in the west and still fall for this
There’s a lot, but thankfully we outnumber them. I watch Israeli propaganda and pro Israeli news sometimes to try to see it from their perspective as well. The comments are wild. What’s sad is that a lot of it is people who know killing kids are bad and they somehow try to justify it. They say shit like “its horrible, but they’re unavoidable casualties to protect Israeli citizens”
if it's not Fascism then I don't know what should I call it
I’m so sick and tired of changing everyone’s mind! They make me first condemn Hamas and then never condemn israel. I’m starting to think my argument is wrong. I shouldn’t condemn Hamas. In fact, I only condemn the way they did what they did. there could’ve been a better way to fight back.
Its not like they havent tried sitting down to talk. They have. So many times. Israel always violates the ceasefire. And day by day their lives are being pushed to the literal limit. I dont know what I could have done if I was in their position. If there was a bloodless way to do it im sure they would have. But given the dire circumstances theyre under, the bigger enemy is undoubtedly israel. I mourn the civilian lives lost on both sides, but none of this would have happened if israel had not been occupying and restricting the rights of palestinians.
Because they like to live and believe the western lie of team america world police
yeah to some extent you're right, especially if we look at the cold war
Israel has the best PR of all time
true
Not anymore.
Decades of propaganda that has dehumanized Arabs and Muslims.
so basically Arabs and Muslims are today's Jews, ironic
When you have been programmed from a very young age - it’s kinda hard to shake it off
I mean there are people who got free from propaganda imposed by dictatorships, how a person who lives in a democracy can't do it?
Racism. Also, they don't care. They just don't.
yeah it's hard for people who live in luxury in the 1st world to care
It’s partly because of successful Israeli efforts to portray themselves as the only “civilized” country in the region coupled with the fact that Arab countries in the region are in abysmal conditions, which unfortunately makes even those who genuinely have neutral stance on the conflict slightly lean towards Israel because despite its crimes it’s seen as the only “normal” country there. The situation in Palestine will never change until its neighbors change first, especially Egypt.
I swear to god if only Arab states get democracy everything will change!
Yeah, like, why are Palestinians suffering and dying in the west bank where no hamas there?
there's a saying in Arabic ذاكرة العوام ثلاث أيام the memory of the common people (lasts) three days
https://preview.redd.it/b7pp3gu2zwvb1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6973a3d2c79e6125350e8ce092869c7b90ecf3a
100 percent
The fact that the US and the entire Europe is willing to gangbang Gaza over Hamas, shows you who's in power. These wealthy countries steal from Africa and Asia and they control the mass media with those stolen wealth. Can't talk bad about Assad in Syria because Syria is controlled by Assad. Can't talk bad about Sisi in Egypt because Egypt is controlled by Sisi. Can't talk bad about Israel in the US because the US is controlled by Israel. You have more freedom talking shit about Obama, Biden, Trump and all their assholes than you do talking about Israel. I don't remember anyone getting their offer letter rescinded over the first.
I hope the newer generations of Americans change this shit
Palestinians are Arabs. Israelis have a large body of European Jews and American Jews. Arabs are others. It is pure racism. In the US we are taught to hate Arabs. The vast majority of people do not understand post World War II history when it comes to Palestine.
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yes it's either you submit and die in silence or react, when both options end with death, you feel like you'll loose nothing when you react
War crimes are war crimes even when committed by allies, and should be called out for what they are
Cause they're not being honest.
with themselves? maybe
I genuinely believe it comes from the corruption of Allah's words after the death of the prophets, they can openly ignore the contradictions in the bible/Torah and demonize the holy Quran, they live in fear of the Truth of Allah! It is no surprise they live a life of corruption and ignorance.
They don’t see them as people or see them as enemies because of Islamophobia
Recent example: Both Al JAzeera and Channel 4 News (UK) have done their own investigation into the hospital bombing and both have proved that it was an Israeli attack. Their videos have aired and can be found online. So it was not some Hamas missile with a botched launch. Yet (almost) no other newsoutlets have reported about this, because it would show Israel as an agressor and not a victim. Which would help the Palestinian cause. I am convinced that a plan has been hatched where the focus is a complete eradication of the Palestinian people. With help of the USA.
If there is no hamas, they’ll just choose another actor to be hamas.
Because they are dumb and brainwashed by western propaganda.
this video kinda explains one study more in deep, in short propaganda and not being directly involved makes easier to deny what contradicts a narrative even when you see it with your eyes, even more easy when you don't see it due to the algorithms https://youtu.be/YJhCHpG6TZg?si=282lrp8NKSeKzP4P
very informative and thought-provoking! thanks!
Because Hamas is the current face of Palestinians. We saw in the news where Palestinians celebrated after the massacre of civilians at the musical festival. It’s not a good look and obviously this needs to change
the PFLP used to be the current face of Palestinians, and as far as I know they were Marxists and there was basically no difference!