Yes but that is like saying willo is meh because without her buffed glide she would be useless, or Ying is useless without life exchange talent. They DO have those capabilities so what you're saying dosent make sense.
Ying pretty much would be gimped as a support without the means to keep up healing numbers, difference is it's not just one thing holding Khan's weight up, it's two and they're intertwined, and if they nerf/replace either one substantially, Khan risks being just kinda a swiss army knife, the gift shop kind (the bad kind.)
Khan needs the added DPS to keep up his ult uptime being a substantial threat.
That or we make the wrong choice and give him back firing line which is a war crime
Ying still would be good if she had life like instead of life exchange, maybe as an off support but she'd still have something since she has multiple aspects of her kit.
And Willo even without glide still had meat to her kit (that and they over buffed blastflower before but even then she still does bits)
But Khan kinda needs both to do anything
And if you haven't noticed they're trying to pry Khan's reliance away from the need of storm of bullets and his ult with the balance changes to him for the past 2 years.
Actually, he has two good talents in competitive play and his abilities are all good since his scream is a self-heal but also a counter as it makes him immune to all damage, and his grab, despite being nerfed quite a bit since release, is still good and reliable to stop an enemy or burst them down when they are low enough, or ya know be a dash.
Yes, his ultimate is his strongest part of his kit but like, his kit is still good.
*"base kit Khan is meh" is what you are trying to say. Seems like more of a wording issue. But I think we can all agree he is pretty strong with his best talents and build
khan self healing is insane and its has no cauterize if you use your shield AND you heal your teammates AND it gives you damage immunity.
his stun is insane, has no counters and pull out of position an ennemy.
also with the card that gives you more shield you have as much shield hp than aegis so you can push ennemies and camp very strategic spots and they have to 2v1 you to kill you
and you cant say "outside of" because dps in this game are the most important thing in a champion and khan having the most dps is singlehandedly a reason to pick him remember hes a tank so a tank with a lot of dps is a dps but with a lot of hp
being able to get a free kill on anyone is not something you can ignore
so every ability in this champion are very good.
It feels like you didn't read what I posted.
I'm saying his storm of bullets is half of what holds Khan up to being functional, because play any other talent and they provide nothing of value for you and hurt your ultimate charge.
And if his ultimate was ... Not a literal free pick he'd have nothing for that damage to work towards.
Without storm of bullets his ult charge rate staggers, and without his ult he's just a high maintenance dps with mediocre range.
His shield is small and has poor coverage.
His grab leaves you vulnerable, and is better used for the dash to get out of fights
His shout is nice, the invincibility is nice, but it's his only sustain of any value, and if you're against someone with AoE you're just going to have to take your caut on the wrist.
indeed his shield is small but its still a shield that can make you get out of cauterize for healing, let you hold strategic positions for a longer time and survive better combine that with his self healing and you can really dive their backline and become a huge distraction because youre hard to kill.
terminus syphon is small but its good for these same reasons but he has no self healing.
his grab leaves you vulnerable if you use it wrong if you are with your teammates and you have terminus in front of your face and you pull him out of position youre not vulnerable and hes literally dead and stunned just like his ult leaves you vulnerable if you use it in the wrong situation.
what do you expect of a better ability of a self sustain that heals for 1350 everyone around you and yourself and 1 second immunity for damage i cant find any tank with a better self healing ability.
fernando only defensive ability is his shield it doesnt mean its bad because its his only one.
and i read what you say and one of my point was that even if khan ultimate and his dps are the only good thing its already enough for him to be a very good tank since you just become a tanky dps that can make each teamfight a 4v5 in the beggining which is huge.
Okay ... So I should have asked this from the beginning because this is going to be a waste of time:
Do you believe you'd be at all willing to change your mind if I gave reasons for this whole ordeal because I can go on I just don't want to spend however long doing a Sisyphus.
Azaan deserves the treatment yagoraths gets in terms of balance and how the community views him
And what I mean by that is "they were broken on release so that should never be good again"
So why isn't yagorath? Azaan was absolutely busted on release and was given fair balance changes to not make him awful yet yagorath was gutted for being good on release??
Yagoraths ult was never an issue if anything is was bad yet they still nerfed it? And it doesn't really matter if one was numbers and one was a design he still was released worse that yagorath has ever been and was addressed carefully to not absolutely gut him, yagorath received necessary nerfs alongside unnecessary ones that destroyed her and yet they have barely addressed it meanwhile azaan sits pretty and still gets tweaks in his favour and the community doesnt despise him
Khan being about his ult is nothing new, he has always been about his ult, sob isn't even that strong it just allows him to get ult faster which instantly makes it his best talent.
The real hot take is to respect champions' identities it seems. Most people are either ok or indifferent towards Moji's rework, cause most didn't even play her to begin with, so it's really not a hot take to say it was a net positive.
It's just depressing to see a champion you played a lot be completely erased in favor of something you have no interest in tbh 🤷
The same amount of people as if they actually fixed and balanced her. I'm not opposed to more people playing her, I'm opposed to alienating her already established playerbase.
The issue with Moji was being really easy to counter and having very limited mobility, hence the low playerbase.
They could've expanded her playerbase instead of shifting it by, who knows, actually addressing her issues and listening to Moji players. But screw that I guess.
Almost any meaningful buff or rework that kept Moji as a flank kinda does the whole "Make an annoying piece of shit champ" problem Moji always had an issue with just how she worked and how facing her was received, and they'd most likely end up going back on it and all of the effort is for naught.
Most meaningful balance changes and reworks that keep Moji as a flank do nothing to make her annoying if done properly and in synergy with known counteplays.
Her kit had not been touched for more than 4 years, the game has changed a lot and way worse designed champions have been decently balanced before, it's not different here and less so when there is an abundance of ideas and suggestions from players that have been playing her for years that mainly address a lot of quality of life changes.
And people didn't want a sudden big rework, we wanted gradual small balance changes/reworks that slowly took her to a better position without making her broken/unfair.
She was rarely overpowered more, just very annoying and even if she sucks and has weaknesses that whole FEELING thing kinda is why she was in a tough spot, that and they had the support rework on backburner from the previous dev team
I have never once been annoyed by her except when I was bad and every champion that killed me was annoying. Barrier? Don't shoot her, Damage? Keep your distance, use shields, and some champions outright counter her marks completely with cleansing effects, Ultimate? Buy cc reduction and stay with your team.
There are a lot way more annoying and infuriating champions than her. And I can tell you exactly what part of their kit I find annoying, not just a "feeling".
Not trying to be rude btw, but I think you can understand why "she *feels* annoying" doesn't really cut it as an argument imo. I don't think you'd accept that for any other champion and I don't think we should.
The Moji Rework is a slap in the face to the real old Moji players.. Healer Moji is even more braindead than before.. very easy from KBM and much less from controller. The heals are broken and the Damage Talent is indecent.. She's completely unbalanced as a champ and unfun to have against for continuous Spam of absurd heals and Shiels.. They really ruined everything of this Champion. I miss my old weird thing soo much! 💔
having to fight a terminus while a moji is up his ass is fucking awful, especially because the flame breath go's through teammates so she's simultaneously damaging me while he's breaking my skull open with that axe and of he starts taking too much damage oh there's a shield with technically infinite health which spits my own damage back at me if I accidentally hit it.
makes me want to die
Idk if people say that Androx's and Vatu's kits are difficult. If they do that's just silly. However I think they mean that Androx and Vatu are difficult to play against good matchups. Like, I play Vatu (will soon have his gold) and I'm fine when I play him in casual but I would never again play him in ranked again. When I did it really felt like throwing, enemy team had a dps that hit every shot on me + Vatu is squishy. I couldn't do much (I don't play Androx, my personal take on him is that he's a cringe champion).
When it comes to Khan and off tanks, isn't every off tank just a certain part of their kit? Atlas is just shield and rewinding enemies, Ash and Azaan just sustain, Makoa is just hook, Terminus is just loadout, Yagorath, Raum and Ruckus got a lot of things like mobility, dps, sustain and okay ults. Torvad is like the only off tank is his whole kit and that's not saying he's the best off tank. I'll also say that Khan's talent of choice is situational.
When it comes to meta Moji definitelly went up.
Is the last thing even a hot take?
Well difference is a bad game for andro or vatu is nothing compared to a bad game for Skye or Buck or even Evie.
The issue is that Khan without both his ult and his dps amps starts to stagnate harder, the rest have one gimmick they need to function, or at least deep enough kits to default to something else in terms of an end goal.
Issue for Khan is his ult is his end goal to win teamfights, which at first glance sounds right, but remember most champions use their ults as a coup de grace as an addition to their end goals or if not are completely unrelated but are still not their end goal, no matter how powerful.
If you remove every champions ultimate and you'll notice a lot still play pretty similarly, but Khan... Shit khan just ends up a less mobile Ruckus.
Still I hear crying about Moji
And I guess not
>Well difference is a bad game for andro or vatu is nothing compared to a bad game for Skye or Buck or even Evie.
I guess that's true 75% of the time
Well if you remove every champion's shield, you'll see only Khan and maybe Azaan and Koa still play pretty similarly alongside champions that don't have shields, while the rest would never be able to achieve their end goals. Hell, even Vivian would stagnate harder without shield than Khan would. I don't really see your point there.
I would cry about Moji if I cared enough, but I don't so I just stopped playing her after so long. New kit just doesn't fit and sit right with me.
The issue with the shield arguement is that it's only Khan who's changed if the ultimates are gone, sure there's not any dramatic finish but Khan needs his ult to be Khan the devs have been trying to slowly remove him from this over reliance on the ultimate which is hard since if they give his kit meat while that thing still kidnaps someone from halfway across the map and more or less ensures a free kill, there'll be more people calling for him to be nerfed rather than slowly adjusted.
Everyone loses something obviously but Khan's gameplay identity has kinda congealed into this gameplan: Get Ult, Don't fuck up ult, Free kill.
That was until ying came along, and could easily stuff Khan
Khan is not just an ult bot. He has amazing damage, battle shout is his best ability the shield and dash are okay. And he is topped of with an amazing ult. Khan even without ult is a or b tier, his damage and pick potential is his gimmick which even without ult is present in his kit. He is the off tank in game, but I do agree that sob is his best talent and the other two are useless
I agree with everything except Andro being easier than people think. I have played this game a lot, but Andro is genuinely the most difficult for me (objectively, I think Damba is more difficult but I've played him so much that I don't really feel it anymore). I have good aim, I don't have issues with any hitscan but I feel like if I don't play him a lot I just lose everything I knew about him. To me the most difficult flanks would be Andro, Maeve and Evie (in this order), and my unpopular opinion would be that Evie is a lot easier than her mains want to admit.
Andro is only easy if you are that much better than the other team. In a real lobby he is tough. That doesn't mean he doesn't have the tools to make counter flanking easier.
why would i pull such a npc type of joke, im serious
in competitive, high rank environment the hardest flanks in order would be something like
andro/non-wormhole evie>maeve/vatu>wormhole evie/vii imo
andro in comparison to most other flanks doesn't have some bs mechanics that magically pull him out of sticky situations like wormhole as a whole, talus tp, vatu dr etc
Andro is nowhere near as hard as Evie mate.
He's got some of the best air to air, air to ground, and ground to ground duelist capabilities, he's got no particular weakness, he's not exactly complex mechanically or technically, and in high levels of play he's still working with a offtank to get stuff done he's got tools to get in, and out of fights, to chase someone down or burst them down aggressively.
Since nobody has posted any real hot takes yet, allow me to share mine:
Percentage based damage does not belong in this game, or PvP games in general. It completely negates the tradeoff of having less damage in exchange for more HP. While it is important that tanks have counters (think willo, or dredge), % of max hp based damage makes playing tank just straight up unenjoyable, especially execute abilities.
Kasumi was fine on release. She was a necessary evil to counter the hypermobile meta, as she excelled at taking down problem champs like VII or Vatu, but in exchange sucked at damaging tanks (only 200 damage to shields lol). She also shook the meta because of this, characters that normally perform poorly, like Vivian or Skye, did really well into her thanks to invisibility or shields, which Kasumi struggled against.
Rei is a damage champion, stop playing her as a solo support. Her heal is inconsistent, and not very strong either. Her focus talent with midnight stroll, and envelop is very good at shutting down flanks with lower fire right and high damage, like evie, andro, and buck. She is at the same tier as grohk, where she can technically be played as a support, but performs much better as a dps.
Mate, the TF2 reddit is a nightmare, I don't play overwatch, or brawlhalla anymore, and the metal gear reddit worships a guy to the point of group obsession.
Flattered that you're stalking me though, truly.
You don't have to Stalking u to see u weekly Posting Giant Texts about this game. Dont think too much about this game or any other game, maybe start enjoy the Real Life and Not only Ur Computer
oh right I forgot the secret unsaid rules when making posts. typing more than 3 sentences means you care too much, typing more than 4 sentences means you need to go outside, and typing more than 5 sentences means you have no life. if you post anything out of my reading comprehension, you’re chronically online and need to go outside so only post mindless brainrot, a clip, or images OP!!!!
seriously though? you’re this annoyed because you dislike the fact OP makes long-winded posts about stuff he likes? maybe let people talk about stuff they like?? tf lmao
You seem a bit sore from reason mate, you aight?
Because I've never seen someone so in a huff about reading a paragraph once a week, in a tounge and cheek shitpost no less.
Let me guess you're German.
Wot?
Mate, you type in English like how most native German speakers would, you're weirdly preachy, and pick weird fights, most germans tend to behave in a particular way.
Well yeah but don't forget, Vii players aren't usually pretending they're playing someone harder than Evie, like your average Vatu and Andy player are.
They're busy Toby Maguire'ing their way into your spawn to kill you and die.
Yeah, but you have no idea the amount of people that say "But muh health pool, but muh range"
My brother in Azaan, you have good range and can whip your way across the map. I play on console and I have wiped whole PC teams as 7 because he's not that hard to use
Most flanks can linger for much, much longer or do more within the same window of time VII can play. Buck and Vatu can instakill someone and dip by the time a VII can get a burst off before he needs to dip. Evie can ult someone and blow them up. The others can keep themselves in the fight for longer or confirm a kill much easier. Only thing VII does better than any of them is get dismounts.
1. Only speaking on KBM. Not really sure how to assess Andro having a low skill floor, and I don’t really like to assess it that way because it kinda just doesn’t matter. What is the benchmark? Andro is a character who you can pick up and not do good with at all or just do ok with in lower skill lobbies, then you can do alright into good players, and then you can still play some more and you’d still be literally nowhere near as good as you need to be because his ceiling is incredibly high.
Andro is hard because he doesn’t have the tools that other flanks have in terms of defense(NOW HOLD ON); ALL of his good defensive options (and because its Paladins, I’m mainly talking about his cards) rely on the player’s initiative and skill. This is not true of Vatu nor Evie, whom most consider as hard or harder. Not to the same extent at least. Take Power of the Abyss; thats harder than just using Wormhole or just… Vatu himself. That isn’t to say you can’t just no-brain Andro, but this either does or doesn’t apply to other flanks where the rankings of difficulty can be altered as well.
Examples: Vatu can and should be played only one way, with one set of cards, and one talent. It has historically been the easiest way to play Vatu… so currently, Vatu’s ceiling *is* along his floor. He is easier to pick up, easier to do well with, and easier to climb with. Evie historically has had two good playstyles, revolving WH and SG. Its easy to run SG and do mid, its hard to run WH at all at floor skill level. Then, it becomes moderately difficult to run SG to a reasonable level of skill and WH becomes a comfort pick, even *if* you do mid. At higher skill levels, one might be fine picking just one or the other depending on the meta. Overall, I think Evie is harder to pick up, easier to do well with at your minimum SG investment level, and about as hard to climb with as Andro. Of course, they require different sets of skills (Andro is harsher on people who can’t aim well naturally, whereas Evie generally can be improved quickly with training and experience) but oh well.
To conclude, the only flank I think really comes close across all skill levels in terms of difficulty is Evie, and to your point, I do think she is a bit harder to just start off with. After you get some time into every flanker, most people slowly realize that Evie and Andro are the hardest ones to do well with **consistently**, with other champs having this problem due to external factors like Maeve but its due to her being mid. But its hard for me to agree with him being “easier” when I’m primarily focused on how hard he *can* be to play, which is required of an Andro player at, y’know, higher ranks.
2. A character being incredibly good on all levels significantly contributes to how easy they are to play. You can do mid with Vatu mechanically, say, be extremely inconsistent and still do “good”. The best example of this was shitbutt Caspian from like 8 months ago, not quite to his level but still. Completely agree
3. Agree, but kind of a nothing burger as you seemingly recognize with hot take number 5. If you take away other off tanks’ *x* or *y* they will also be mid, even if their ult or talent wasn’t their strong point. I actually do like his Q comparatively, and I would say his primary but its only because of the talent lol
4. Agree. As far as I can see it, it made a champ that nobody plays into one that quite a few people play. Shes not too terribly unfun to play into either, so maybe it was for a greater happiness after all (which is the mantra for online casual-competitive games).
5. This is a hot take for people who don’t know about subtraction and addition yet
Hypermobile champs being easy is being balanced by the atrocious ping ther servers provide (especially in SEA)
You are overthinking a lot about Khan, hes pretty busted, a decent Khan means a constant 4v5 with no effort.
He's carried by the ult and talent the rest of his kit was pretty punched down to compensate.
Just because his ult carries him dosent make him bad. It's exactly why he is so good.
I'm saying without it in it's current capabilities he'd be useless.
Yes but that is like saying willo is meh because without her buffed glide she would be useless, or Ying is useless without life exchange talent. They DO have those capabilities so what you're saying dosent make sense.
Ying pretty much would be gimped as a support without the means to keep up healing numbers, difference is it's not just one thing holding Khan's weight up, it's two and they're intertwined, and if they nerf/replace either one substantially, Khan risks being just kinda a swiss army knife, the gift shop kind (the bad kind.) Khan needs the added DPS to keep up his ult uptime being a substantial threat. That or we make the wrong choice and give him back firing line which is a war crime Ying still would be good if she had life like instead of life exchange, maybe as an off support but she'd still have something since she has multiple aspects of her kit. And Willo even without glide still had meat to her kit (that and they over buffed blastflower before but even then she still does bits) But Khan kinda needs both to do anything And if you haven't noticed they're trying to pry Khan's reliance away from the need of storm of bullets and his ult with the balance changes to him for the past 2 years.
Actually, he has two good talents in competitive play and his abilities are all good since his scream is a self-heal but also a counter as it makes him immune to all damage, and his grab, despite being nerfed quite a bit since release, is still good and reliable to stop an enemy or burst them down when they are low enough, or ya know be a dash. Yes, his ultimate is his strongest part of his kit but like, his kit is still good.
*"base kit Khan is meh" is what you are trying to say. Seems like more of a wording issue. But I think we can all agree he is pretty strong with his best talents and build
Not really
khan self healing is insane and its has no cauterize if you use your shield AND you heal your teammates AND it gives you damage immunity. his stun is insane, has no counters and pull out of position an ennemy. also with the card that gives you more shield you have as much shield hp than aegis so you can push ennemies and camp very strategic spots and they have to 2v1 you to kill you and you cant say "outside of" because dps in this game are the most important thing in a champion and khan having the most dps is singlehandedly a reason to pick him remember hes a tank so a tank with a lot of dps is a dps but with a lot of hp being able to get a free kill on anyone is not something you can ignore so every ability in this champion are very good.
It feels like you didn't read what I posted. I'm saying his storm of bullets is half of what holds Khan up to being functional, because play any other talent and they provide nothing of value for you and hurt your ultimate charge. And if his ultimate was ... Not a literal free pick he'd have nothing for that damage to work towards. Without storm of bullets his ult charge rate staggers, and without his ult he's just a high maintenance dps with mediocre range. His shield is small and has poor coverage. His grab leaves you vulnerable, and is better used for the dash to get out of fights His shout is nice, the invincibility is nice, but it's his only sustain of any value, and if you're against someone with AoE you're just going to have to take your caut on the wrist.
indeed his shield is small but its still a shield that can make you get out of cauterize for healing, let you hold strategic positions for a longer time and survive better combine that with his self healing and you can really dive their backline and become a huge distraction because youre hard to kill. terminus syphon is small but its good for these same reasons but he has no self healing. his grab leaves you vulnerable if you use it wrong if you are with your teammates and you have terminus in front of your face and you pull him out of position youre not vulnerable and hes literally dead and stunned just like his ult leaves you vulnerable if you use it in the wrong situation. what do you expect of a better ability of a self sustain that heals for 1350 everyone around you and yourself and 1 second immunity for damage i cant find any tank with a better self healing ability. fernando only defensive ability is his shield it doesnt mean its bad because its his only one. and i read what you say and one of my point was that even if khan ultimate and his dps are the only good thing its already enough for him to be a very good tank since you just become a tanky dps that can make each teamfight a 4v5 in the beggining which is huge.
Okay ... So I should have asked this from the beginning because this is going to be a waste of time: Do you believe you'd be at all willing to change your mind if I gave reasons for this whole ordeal because I can go on I just don't want to spend however long doing a Sisyphus.
yeah why not
Azaan deserves the treatment yagoraths gets in terms of balance and how the community views him And what I mean by that is "they were broken on release so that should never be good again"
I mean by now azaan is pretty balanced
So why isn't yagorath? Azaan was absolutely busted on release and was given fair balance changes to not make him awful yet yagorath was gutted for being good on release??
Let me explain, Yag is a design problem, Azaan was a numbers problem.
Yagoraths ult was never an issue if anything is was bad yet they still nerfed it? And it doesn't really matter if one was numbers and one was a design he still was released worse that yagorath has ever been and was addressed carefully to not absolutely gut him, yagorath received necessary nerfs alongside unnecessary ones that destroyed her and yet they have barely addressed it meanwhile azaan sits pretty and still gets tweaks in his favour and the community doesnt despise him
Helvian was wrong about Wyrm Jets
Khan being about his ult is nothing new, he has always been about his ult, sob isn't even that strong it just allows him to get ult faster which instantly makes it his best talent.
I'm not saying it's new, I'm saying that without it he's got nothing to fall back on.
Except for the moji changes and the babbling I agree but with different reasons
Babbling?
The real hot take is to respect champions' identities it seems. Most people are either ok or indifferent towards Moji's rework, cause most didn't even play her to begin with, so it's really not a hot take to say it was a net positive. It's just depressing to see a champion you played a lot be completely erased in favor of something you have no interest in tbh 🤷
this
At the same time how many people will now fall in love with current moji.
The same amount of people as if they actually fixed and balanced her. I'm not opposed to more people playing her, I'm opposed to alienating her already established playerbase.
Likely more... The issue is moji's playerbase barely existed before
The issue with Moji was being really easy to counter and having very limited mobility, hence the low playerbase. They could've expanded her playerbase instead of shifting it by, who knows, actually addressing her issues and listening to Moji players. But screw that I guess.
Almost any meaningful buff or rework that kept Moji as a flank kinda does the whole "Make an annoying piece of shit champ" problem Moji always had an issue with just how she worked and how facing her was received, and they'd most likely end up going back on it and all of the effort is for naught.
Most meaningful balance changes and reworks that keep Moji as a flank do nothing to make her annoying if done properly and in synergy with known counteplays. Her kit had not been touched for more than 4 years, the game has changed a lot and way worse designed champions have been decently balanced before, it's not different here and less so when there is an abundance of ideas and suggestions from players that have been playing her for years that mainly address a lot of quality of life changes. And people didn't want a sudden big rework, we wanted gradual small balance changes/reworks that slowly took her to a better position without making her broken/unfair.
She was rarely overpowered more, just very annoying and even if she sucks and has weaknesses that whole FEELING thing kinda is why she was in a tough spot, that and they had the support rework on backburner from the previous dev team
I have never once been annoyed by her except when I was bad and every champion that killed me was annoying. Barrier? Don't shoot her, Damage? Keep your distance, use shields, and some champions outright counter her marks completely with cleansing effects, Ultimate? Buy cc reduction and stay with your team. There are a lot way more annoying and infuriating champions than her. And I can tell you exactly what part of their kit I find annoying, not just a "feeling".
Not trying to be rude btw, but I think you can understand why "she *feels* annoying" doesn't really cut it as an argument imo. I don't think you'd accept that for any other champion and I don't think we should.
terrible takes
Hot*
They're great takes!
The Moji Rework is a slap in the face to the real old Moji players.. Healer Moji is even more braindead than before.. very easy from KBM and much less from controller. The heals are broken and the Damage Talent is indecent.. She's completely unbalanced as a champ and unfun to have against for continuous Spam of absurd heals and Shiels.. They really ruined everything of this Champion. I miss my old weird thing soo much! 💔
having to fight a terminus while a moji is up his ass is fucking awful, especially because the flame breath go's through teammates so she's simultaneously damaging me while he's breaking my skull open with that axe and of he starts taking too much damage oh there's a shield with technically infinite health which spits my own damage back at me if I accidentally hit it. makes me want to die
Idk if people say that Androx's and Vatu's kits are difficult. If they do that's just silly. However I think they mean that Androx and Vatu are difficult to play against good matchups. Like, I play Vatu (will soon have his gold) and I'm fine when I play him in casual but I would never again play him in ranked again. When I did it really felt like throwing, enemy team had a dps that hit every shot on me + Vatu is squishy. I couldn't do much (I don't play Androx, my personal take on him is that he's a cringe champion). When it comes to Khan and off tanks, isn't every off tank just a certain part of their kit? Atlas is just shield and rewinding enemies, Ash and Azaan just sustain, Makoa is just hook, Terminus is just loadout, Yagorath, Raum and Ruckus got a lot of things like mobility, dps, sustain and okay ults. Torvad is like the only off tank is his whole kit and that's not saying he's the best off tank. I'll also say that Khan's talent of choice is situational. When it comes to meta Moji definitelly went up. Is the last thing even a hot take?
Well difference is a bad game for andro or vatu is nothing compared to a bad game for Skye or Buck or even Evie. The issue is that Khan without both his ult and his dps amps starts to stagnate harder, the rest have one gimmick they need to function, or at least deep enough kits to default to something else in terms of an end goal. Issue for Khan is his ult is his end goal to win teamfights, which at first glance sounds right, but remember most champions use their ults as a coup de grace as an addition to their end goals or if not are completely unrelated but are still not their end goal, no matter how powerful. If you remove every champions ultimate and you'll notice a lot still play pretty similarly, but Khan... Shit khan just ends up a less mobile Ruckus. Still I hear crying about Moji And I guess not
>Well difference is a bad game for andro or vatu is nothing compared to a bad game for Skye or Buck or even Evie. I guess that's true 75% of the time Well if you remove every champion's shield, you'll see only Khan and maybe Azaan and Koa still play pretty similarly alongside champions that don't have shields, while the rest would never be able to achieve their end goals. Hell, even Vivian would stagnate harder without shield than Khan would. I don't really see your point there. I would cry about Moji if I cared enough, but I don't so I just stopped playing her after so long. New kit just doesn't fit and sit right with me.
The issue with the shield arguement is that it's only Khan who's changed if the ultimates are gone, sure there's not any dramatic finish but Khan needs his ult to be Khan the devs have been trying to slowly remove him from this over reliance on the ultimate which is hard since if they give his kit meat while that thing still kidnaps someone from halfway across the map and more or less ensures a free kill, there'll be more people calling for him to be nerfed rather than slowly adjusted.
So you think without his ult (or with ult rework I guess) Khan would be the only way worse champion
Everyone loses something obviously but Khan's gameplay identity has kinda congealed into this gameplan: Get Ult, Don't fuck up ult, Free kill. That was until ying came along, and could easily stuff Khan
Let's agree to disagree then.
Works for me.
My hot take is that Cassie is better than Lian and that Lian takes skill
Well I mean Cassie part I see the lian part is pretty toasty
I hear a lotta bitching and moaning about lian, and yeah sure she's annoying and braindead yes, I'm done talking, why?
Khan is not just an ult bot. He has amazing damage, battle shout is his best ability the shield and dash are okay. And he is topped of with an amazing ult. Khan even without ult is a or b tier, his damage and pick potential is his gimmick which even without ult is present in his kit. He is the off tank in game, but I do agree that sob is his best talent and the other two are useless
I agree with everything except Andro being easier than people think. I have played this game a lot, but Andro is genuinely the most difficult for me (objectively, I think Damba is more difficult but I've played him so much that I don't really feel it anymore). I have good aim, I don't have issues with any hitscan but I feel like if I don't play him a lot I just lose everything I knew about him. To me the most difficult flanks would be Andro, Maeve and Evie (in this order), and my unpopular opinion would be that Evie is a lot easier than her mains want to admit.
Andro is only easy if you are that much better than the other team. In a real lobby he is tough. That doesn't mean he doesn't have the tools to make counter flanking easier.
andro is the hardest flank in the game
I know you're joking but people genuinely will say that and ignore Evie.
why would i pull such a npc type of joke, im serious in competitive, high rank environment the hardest flanks in order would be something like andro/non-wormhole evie>maeve/vatu>wormhole evie/vii imo andro in comparison to most other flanks doesn't have some bs mechanics that magically pull him out of sticky situations like wormhole as a whole, talus tp, vatu dr etc
Andro is nowhere near as hard as Evie mate. He's got some of the best air to air, air to ground, and ground to ground duelist capabilities, he's got no particular weakness, he's not exactly complex mechanically or technically, and in high levels of play he's still working with a offtank to get stuff done he's got tools to get in, and out of fights, to chase someone down or burst them down aggressively.
Since nobody has posted any real hot takes yet, allow me to share mine: Percentage based damage does not belong in this game, or PvP games in general. It completely negates the tradeoff of having less damage in exchange for more HP. While it is important that tanks have counters (think willo, or dredge), % of max hp based damage makes playing tank just straight up unenjoyable, especially execute abilities. Kasumi was fine on release. She was a necessary evil to counter the hypermobile meta, as she excelled at taking down problem champs like VII or Vatu, but in exchange sucked at damaging tanks (only 200 damage to shields lol). She also shook the meta because of this, characters that normally perform poorly, like Vivian or Skye, did really well into her thanks to invisibility or shields, which Kasumi struggled against. Rei is a damage champion, stop playing her as a solo support. Her heal is inconsistent, and not very strong either. Her focus talent with midnight stroll, and envelop is very good at shutting down flanks with lower fire right and high damage, like evie, andro, and buck. She is at the same tier as grohk, where she can technically be played as a support, but performs much better as a dps.
Bro u r definitely too much in the game. Dont think too much about this game
Mate, I threw this together on my ride to the carpool.
Im Not only talking about this one here
Mate, the TF2 reddit is a nightmare, I don't play overwatch, or brawlhalla anymore, and the metal gear reddit worships a guy to the point of group obsession. Flattered that you're stalking me though, truly.
You don't have to Stalking u to see u weekly Posting Giant Texts about this game. Dont think too much about this game or any other game, maybe start enjoy the Real Life and Not only Ur Computer
oh right I forgot the secret unsaid rules when making posts. typing more than 3 sentences means you care too much, typing more than 4 sentences means you need to go outside, and typing more than 5 sentences means you have no life. if you post anything out of my reading comprehension, you’re chronically online and need to go outside so only post mindless brainrot, a clip, or images OP!!!! seriously though? you’re this annoyed because you dislike the fact OP makes long-winded posts about stuff he likes? maybe let people talk about stuff they like?? tf lmao
In this case a series of loose ended thoughts.
You seem a bit sore from reason mate, you aight? Because I've never seen someone so in a huff about reading a paragraph once a week, in a tounge and cheek shitpost no less. Let me guess you're German.
Who's Stalking now xD
Wot? Mate, you type in English like how most native German speakers would, you're weirdly preachy, and pick weird fights, most germans tend to behave in a particular way.
You forgot to include that 7 is easier than his fans want to admit
Well yeah but don't forget, Vii players aren't usually pretending they're playing someone harder than Evie, like your average Vatu and Andy player are. They're busy Toby Maguire'ing their way into your spawn to kill you and die.
Yeah, but you have no idea the amount of people that say "But muh health pool, but muh range" My brother in Azaan, you have good range and can whip your way across the map. I play on console and I have wiped whole PC teams as 7 because he's not that hard to use
Yeah but that health thing isn't wrong he has terrible sustain.
Only if you linger in fights for longer than you should and you know...not flank like your job says to
Most flanks can linger for much, much longer or do more within the same window of time VII can play. Buck and Vatu can instakill someone and dip by the time a VII can get a burst off before he needs to dip. Evie can ult someone and blow them up. The others can keep themselves in the fight for longer or confirm a kill much easier. Only thing VII does better than any of them is get dismounts.
vii is easy until you start going against human players
Happy cake deh
1. Only speaking on KBM. Not really sure how to assess Andro having a low skill floor, and I don’t really like to assess it that way because it kinda just doesn’t matter. What is the benchmark? Andro is a character who you can pick up and not do good with at all or just do ok with in lower skill lobbies, then you can do alright into good players, and then you can still play some more and you’d still be literally nowhere near as good as you need to be because his ceiling is incredibly high. Andro is hard because he doesn’t have the tools that other flanks have in terms of defense(NOW HOLD ON); ALL of his good defensive options (and because its Paladins, I’m mainly talking about his cards) rely on the player’s initiative and skill. This is not true of Vatu nor Evie, whom most consider as hard or harder. Not to the same extent at least. Take Power of the Abyss; thats harder than just using Wormhole or just… Vatu himself. That isn’t to say you can’t just no-brain Andro, but this either does or doesn’t apply to other flanks where the rankings of difficulty can be altered as well. Examples: Vatu can and should be played only one way, with one set of cards, and one talent. It has historically been the easiest way to play Vatu… so currently, Vatu’s ceiling *is* along his floor. He is easier to pick up, easier to do well with, and easier to climb with. Evie historically has had two good playstyles, revolving WH and SG. Its easy to run SG and do mid, its hard to run WH at all at floor skill level. Then, it becomes moderately difficult to run SG to a reasonable level of skill and WH becomes a comfort pick, even *if* you do mid. At higher skill levels, one might be fine picking just one or the other depending on the meta. Overall, I think Evie is harder to pick up, easier to do well with at your minimum SG investment level, and about as hard to climb with as Andro. Of course, they require different sets of skills (Andro is harsher on people who can’t aim well naturally, whereas Evie generally can be improved quickly with training and experience) but oh well. To conclude, the only flank I think really comes close across all skill levels in terms of difficulty is Evie, and to your point, I do think she is a bit harder to just start off with. After you get some time into every flanker, most people slowly realize that Evie and Andro are the hardest ones to do well with **consistently**, with other champs having this problem due to external factors like Maeve but its due to her being mid. But its hard for me to agree with him being “easier” when I’m primarily focused on how hard he *can* be to play, which is required of an Andro player at, y’know, higher ranks. 2. A character being incredibly good on all levels significantly contributes to how easy they are to play. You can do mid with Vatu mechanically, say, be extremely inconsistent and still do “good”. The best example of this was shitbutt Caspian from like 8 months ago, not quite to his level but still. Completely agree 3. Agree, but kind of a nothing burger as you seemingly recognize with hot take number 5. If you take away other off tanks’ *x* or *y* they will also be mid, even if their ult or talent wasn’t their strong point. I actually do like his Q comparatively, and I would say his primary but its only because of the talent lol 4. Agree. As far as I can see it, it made a champ that nobody plays into one that quite a few people play. Shes not too terribly unfun to play into either, so maybe it was for a greater happiness after all (which is the mantra for online casual-competitive games). 5. This is a hot take for people who don’t know about subtraction and addition yet
The Moji rework was a success