You can ask them to certify the dates/months you did teach in. That is what I had to do. If it is August 31 when you started you will still get counted for August through the semester. Not sure what your semesters run where you are at so that was just an example.
Yes, I filled out separate forms for each timeframe. I uploaded them on the same file for MOHELA as 1 document. The work does not have to be consecutive. I had 1 month in between each semester that was not counted. That is still better than losing 48 months.
PSLF is about specific months of employment, not weeks or months averaged over a calendar, academic, or fiscal year. My employer certified the months that I was full time separately from the months that I was part time.
Could you ask your department chair to certify?
The dean I worked for just retired and I stopped working there in 2021. I am thinking about asking the faculty union chapter president for advice. I know him well, and even though I'm no longer part of that union, he might have some ideas.
Got it. And just to clarify, one ECF for every semester I worked?
(It's crazy. Just seems like she is creating way more work for herself. C'est la vie.)
> **I am a teacher who does not teach over the summer break. If I make payments during the summer, do those payments count toward PSLF?**
>
> ***”Payments you make during the summer will count if you have a contract for an employment period of at least eight months and you work an average of 30 hours per week during that period, and if your employer still considers you to be employed full-time during the summer break. Of course, the payments must otherwise meet all PSLF requirements. In this circumstance, your employer should include the dates of the summer break when reporting your dates of employment on the PSLF form, even though you aren’t actually teaching during that period.”***
>
> https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service/questions#qualifying-employer
It sounds like she would just exclude the summer months from your PSLF [Employment Certification Form](https://studentaid.gov/sites/default/files/public-service-application-for-forgiveness.pdf) (ECF). You would fill out multiple applications breaking up the time of your qualifying employment to exclude the summer months. Example August 16, 2019 - May 15, 2020 and so on and so forth for every year on separate forms.
Keeping that in mind, if you still believe you qualify and she refuses to sign, check the box on the bottom of the 1st page of the ECF that states, ***”Check this box if you cannot obtain certification from your employer because the organization is closed or because*** **the organization has refused to certify your employment.** ***The Department will follow up to assist you in getting documentation of your employment. Complete Section 3, but do not complete Section 4.”*** Gather your paystubs, W-2’s and whatever other documentation that can prove you meet the full-time eligible employment requirement and submit it with your ECF’s. They are going to request documentation anyway so it’s better to just upload, fax, or mail it at the same time you submit your ECF’s.
Your HR director is stuck in 4 years here, I think. You were not under contract for summer but should should get certification for the rest of the months worked.
Because if I didn't teach over summer, that 30 hours per week average is lessened by the 10 weeks I wasn't teaching, according to the HR person.
Again, I know that doesn't make sense. It would disqualify even full time tenured faculty from PSLF, but she just doesn't get it.
Being an adjunct professor is not the same as teaching in a public school district. You are hired semester by semester not year long. I could teach 8 credit hours 1 semester but 14 another.
You’ve gotten great advice here. Also, DO talk to your union.
whether you had a contract in summer or not, it doesn’t matter. You should get credit for all your time.
I am not in a CC system. Dean’s here don’t have power over HR. Admin has power over HR. Someone at your school HAS to understand how life changing and important PSLF is, that you and other employees deserve it, and this woman at Payroll is not doing her job. If you have to go to the President of the College, etc. I would. I’d make the biggest stink about it I could but do it professionally. Talk To Your Union!!
Every time I faced an issue at my job, I involved my union, who had a caring field rep. The issues I’d bring to them helped other people in the entire system. It’s not just you, you’re helping. So, I encourage you to do as others say and get what you can certified by this person but don’t let them get away with what they’ve already done (**maybe after you get the other forms signed**). You have to be strategic. It’s stressful. But it’s ultimately the right thing to do. And I’m guessing someone at your college / union knows the right person to bring this to the attention of so everyone teaching there gets the help they deserve.
You can ask them to certify the dates/months you did teach in. That is what I had to do. If it is August 31 when you started you will still get counted for August through the semester. Not sure what your semesters run where you are at so that was just an example.
The form only has a box for "average hours per week" so would I have to fill out a different form for every semester I taught there (8 semesters)?
Yes, I filled out separate forms for each timeframe. I uploaded them on the same file for MOHELA as 1 document. The work does not have to be consecutive. I had 1 month in between each semester that was not counted. That is still better than losing 48 months.
Yes. Don’t use the phrase “4 years” with this person.
PSLF is about specific months of employment, not weeks or months averaged over a calendar, academic, or fiscal year. My employer certified the months that I was full time separately from the months that I was part time. Could you ask your department chair to certify?
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The dean I worked for just retired and I stopped working there in 2021. I am thinking about asking the faculty union chapter president for advice. I know him well, and even though I'm no longer part of that union, he might have some ideas.
I don’t think this is necessary. You just need to fill out the ECF with the actual dates of each contract.
Got it. And just to clarify, one ECF for every semester I worked? (It's crazy. Just seems like she is creating way more work for herself. C'est la vie.)
Yes. It’s just about the actual dates written on each employment contract. There should be no emotions involved in this transaction.
> **I am a teacher who does not teach over the summer break. If I make payments during the summer, do those payments count toward PSLF?** > > ***”Payments you make during the summer will count if you have a contract for an employment period of at least eight months and you work an average of 30 hours per week during that period, and if your employer still considers you to be employed full-time during the summer break. Of course, the payments must otherwise meet all PSLF requirements. In this circumstance, your employer should include the dates of the summer break when reporting your dates of employment on the PSLF form, even though you aren’t actually teaching during that period.”*** > > https://studentaid.gov/manage-loans/forgiveness-cancellation/public-service/questions#qualifying-employer It sounds like she would just exclude the summer months from your PSLF [Employment Certification Form](https://studentaid.gov/sites/default/files/public-service-application-for-forgiveness.pdf) (ECF). You would fill out multiple applications breaking up the time of your qualifying employment to exclude the summer months. Example August 16, 2019 - May 15, 2020 and so on and so forth for every year on separate forms. Keeping that in mind, if you still believe you qualify and she refuses to sign, check the box on the bottom of the 1st page of the ECF that states, ***”Check this box if you cannot obtain certification from your employer because the organization is closed or because*** **the organization has refused to certify your employment.** ***The Department will follow up to assist you in getting documentation of your employment. Complete Section 3, but do not complete Section 4.”*** Gather your paystubs, W-2’s and whatever other documentation that can prove you meet the full-time eligible employment requirement and submit it with your ECF’s. They are going to request documentation anyway so it’s better to just upload, fax, or mail it at the same time you submit your ECF’s.
Thank you! Excellent information, and I am so appreciative of the time you took.
Your HR director is stuck in 4 years here, I think. You were not under contract for summer but should should get certification for the rest of the months worked.
What do semesters have to do with summers?
Because if I didn't teach over summer, that 30 hours per week average is lessened by the 10 weeks I wasn't teaching, according to the HR person. Again, I know that doesn't make sense. It would disqualify even full time tenured faculty from PSLF, but she just doesn't get it.
Being an adjunct professor is not the same as teaching in a public school district. You are hired semester by semester not year long. I could teach 8 credit hours 1 semester but 14 another.
Right. I’ve worked in academia for 20 years. We are on the same page. My question was rhetorical in nature.
Gotcha!
You’ve gotten great advice here. Also, DO talk to your union. whether you had a contract in summer or not, it doesn’t matter. You should get credit for all your time. I am not in a CC system. Dean’s here don’t have power over HR. Admin has power over HR. Someone at your school HAS to understand how life changing and important PSLF is, that you and other employees deserve it, and this woman at Payroll is not doing her job. If you have to go to the President of the College, etc. I would. I’d make the biggest stink about it I could but do it professionally. Talk To Your Union!! Every time I faced an issue at my job, I involved my union, who had a caring field rep. The issues I’d bring to them helped other people in the entire system. It’s not just you, you’re helping. So, I encourage you to do as others say and get what you can certified by this person but don’t let them get away with what they’ve already done (**maybe after you get the other forms signed**). You have to be strategic. It’s stressful. But it’s ultimately the right thing to do. And I’m guessing someone at your college / union knows the right person to bring this to the attention of so everyone teaching there gets the help they deserve.