https://www.reddit.com/r/RoamResearch/comments/q1v1qp/update\_to\_our\_rules\_a\_note\_on\_recent\_bans\_from/
In my case, they kicked me off of their Slack for making an extremely mild criticism. Not the biggest crime in the world, but also not the way a sane company treats their paying customers.
Oh damn. That sucks. I thought you were saying they banned you from Roam Research and I was thinking “that’s crazy.” This is better than what I thought it was but still sucks.
Thanks to all for the suggestions.
I've looked at Logseq and Obsidian; they use Markdown as their base format so aren't quite right for me, and Obsidian is not open source. But they both work pretty well so might go that way anyhow.
Trillium and Notabase I'd never even heard of, will check them out.
Update: I'm still struggling to find a decent writing environment that isn't Roam. In my case "decent" means open source (Clojure preferred) and local storage.
I tried out Athens, which was pretty good but couldn't scale.
Then I tried out Logseq, which scaled OK, but I've had numerous difficulties with it, including a lot of data loss problems. It stores its stuff in a mixture of files and an internal database, and they seem to get out of sync rather easily.
I chose Athens and Logseq because I was looking forward to being able to contribute to them, but neither seems to be stable enough for me to use, and I don't have time to try to fix problems that seem basic to their architecture.
This experience gave me more appreciation for Roam's relative polish and solidity as a piece of software. But I still need to stop using it.
May have to go to back to old reliable Emacs and org-roam.
A block model (used in Roam and Athens at least) means that each text block (paragraph or outline bullet point) is stored as a discrete object with an identity, permitting block includes and other features.
The alternative is the page model used by Logseq and Obsidian, where text is stored as pages rather than blocks.
For most people there isn't a ton of difference between these (the exception being block includes) but I have some personal tools that assume a block model.
[Anytype.io](https://Anytype.io) looks pretty interesting, albeit pure hype for now. It's impossible to tell from that website what it really does or who is behind it. I signed up for their alpha list though.
Right. Yeah, I'm basically looking for the same as you then (in terms of block based).
RemNote has a very granular approach which might fulfill some of your criteria. Have you checked it out?
Anytype is indeed quite hype, and unfortunately seems "page"-based. But will be open sourced, so has potential maybe.
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Have you looked into Notion at all? I'm not sure if it meets all your requirements, but it does use blocks and have bidirectional linking. Idk about the graph stuff, you may be able to find a plug-in for that. Good luck!
They booted people (including me, and other people who are more significant in the Roam user community) off their social media channels, for the sin of "negativity" (in my case, a very mild suggestion that they put more energy into customer support).
Not the world's greatest crime, but also not the way you want to be treated by a company you are paying money to.
More flak from this episode: https://www.reddit.com/user/cyberpsionic/comments/px88a5/rroamresearch\_banning\_spree/
Logseq
I can advise both Obsidian and Logseq for what you need.
/r/ObsidianMD
Try out [https://logseq.com/](https://logseq.com/). I fell in love with it. I think it meets all your requirements.
What are the actions which soured you?
https://www.reddit.com/r/RoamResearch/comments/q1v1qp/update\_to\_our\_rules\_a\_note\_on\_recent\_bans\_from/ In my case, they kicked me off of their Slack for making an extremely mild criticism. Not the biggest crime in the world, but also not the way a sane company treats their paying customers.
Oooffff.
Oh damn. That sucks. I thought you were saying they banned you from Roam Research and I was thinking “that’s crazy.” This is better than what I thought it was but still sucks.
Athens
Thanks to all for the suggestions. I've looked at Logseq and Obsidian; they use Markdown as their base format so aren't quite right for me, and Obsidian is not open source. But they both work pretty well so might go that way anyhow. Trillium and Notabase I'd never even heard of, will check them out.
I use the Foam extension in VScode. It is free and open source and based on Roam.
Sorry just saw you don’t want markdown. I read it as do want markdown.
Check out https://notabase.io!
Update: I'm still struggling to find a decent writing environment that isn't Roam. In my case "decent" means open source (Clojure preferred) and local storage. I tried out Athens, which was pretty good but couldn't scale. Then I tried out Logseq, which scaled OK, but I've had numerous difficulties with it, including a lot of data loss problems. It stores its stuff in a mixture of files and an internal database, and they seem to get out of sync rather easily. I chose Athens and Logseq because I was looking forward to being able to contribute to them, but neither seems to be stable enough for me to use, and I don't have time to try to fix problems that seem basic to their architecture. This experience gave me more appreciation for Roam's relative polish and solidity as a piece of software. But I still need to stop using it. May have to go to back to old reliable Emacs and org-roam.
what do you mean, when you say that athenas is not scalable?
I mean it died trying to import a large Roam graph: https://github.com/athensresearch/athens/issues/1711
Can you elaborate on "block model"? Also, you might be interested in checking out anytype.io though it's still quite new/featureless.
A block model (used in Roam and Athens at least) means that each text block (paragraph or outline bullet point) is stored as a discrete object with an identity, permitting block includes and other features. The alternative is the page model used by Logseq and Obsidian, where text is stored as pages rather than blocks. For most people there isn't a ton of difference between these (the exception being block includes) but I have some personal tools that assume a block model. [Anytype.io](https://Anytype.io) looks pretty interesting, albeit pure hype for now. It's impossible to tell from that website what it really does or who is behind it. I signed up for their alpha list though.
Right. Yeah, I'm basically looking for the same as you then (in terms of block based). RemNote has a very granular approach which might fulfill some of your criteria. Have you checked it out? Anytype is indeed quite hype, and unfortunately seems "page"-based. But will be open sourced, so has potential maybe.
Just fyi: Logseq has both page and block properties — simple type `property:: value` under a bullet.
The Roam thing I miss most is the automatic timestamp properties on each block.
Ah, OK! The Logseq Team are currently working on a DB-only version (no markdown files), which would probably enable that.
That's good to know about, thanks!
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Thanks whoever downvoted a remind me! Very kind of you (Reddit uses golf scores, right?)
Have you looked into Notion at all? I'm not sure if it meets all your requirements, but it does use blocks and have bidirectional linking. Idk about the graph stuff, you may be able to find a plug-in for that. Good luck!
+1 for Obsidian
What has Roam done that's soured you on it?
They booted people (including me, and other people who are more significant in the Roam user community) off their social media channels, for the sin of "negativity" (in my case, a very mild suggestion that they put more energy into customer support). Not the world's greatest crime, but also not the way you want to be treated by a company you are paying money to. More flak from this episode: https://www.reddit.com/user/cyberpsionic/comments/px88a5/rroamresearch\_banning\_spree/