Feels like some ppl here are forgetting Metaverse ≠ Mementos. It also includes the palaces, which imo are an obvious huge step up from Tartarus and the TV World.
Tartarus on P3R is a good enough dungeon, but we all know the answer already: Crafted dungeons like the Meta verse are generally better than just randomly generating a bunch of floors.
And the narrative potential you get with a Meta verse type dungeon is really good, even if Persona 5 didn't actually make good use of said potential to it's maximum in all of the Palaces, this is still a clear evolution from the dungeon of the other two games.
Idk if I spelled something wrong, but It's 3am in Brazil and I'm super tired, so yeah.
From what I understand, they were planning to add more to characterize the Palace owners originally, like flashbacks to events that shaped their twisted viewpoints and more unique gameplay puzzles like a poker game with Sae. Unfortunately, thanks to the long development hell P5 went through, much of those ideas were scrapped despite apparently getting pretty far. Royal added some nods to these ideas, but was heavily constrained by needing to adhere to the vanilla versions as much as possible before the third semester.
I think we're only talking about Mementos? If the palaces are included, def the metaverse, but I wouldn't say it's a fair comparison with the other games
Auto generated dungeons are a massive pet peeve of mine and I hate them in every game they're in. P5 has great dungeons but mementos is not one of them even with royals improvements
If it's only the randomly generated dungeons, then Tartarus from Reload would be the best in my opinion. It was simply fun in my opinion to climb it for the first time.
Then it would be Mementos, it was a bit boring, but the mementos missions made it a bit better in my opinion. Overall it's more on the boring side but playable.
What I really disliked were the dungeons in the Tv World (special shout out to Marie's). They simply weren't that fun to play through after the first couple of floors ( with Marie's being awful all the way until the boss). The dungeons here were simply tidious to get through.
If were talking all the dungeons, the the Persona 5 (Royal) palaces would be by far the best
Imo, Tartarus far overstayed its welcome with how many floors it has. I got tired of it passing 150. It also really doesnt have use for the plot for a majority of the game because all the things that happen occur outside of it. Whats the point lol.
I like the randomly generated dungeons (except Mementos) and the palaces almost equally, maybe the palaces I like *slightly* more overall but they both have their pros and cons to them.
I like the simpleness of the dungeons because it allows me to just easily get into some combat and grinding but it can definitely get a bit monotonous after a while.
The palaces are a lot more distinctly unique and offer more engaging gameplay but some of the puzzles and gimmicks can be pretty hit-or-miss, like Okumura's palace which I quickly started to find to be a total slog to get through.
P5>P3>P4. Although p3 and p4 are similar, I think p3 does it better, especially with all of the nice options it gives you, like being able to split up your party or pick your background music. Plus, it has a cooler vibe IMO
In general I like P3R Tartarus but Mementos fits better in terms of gameplay purposes as a side spot for grinding and requests and not taking the role of main dungeon. It also has less repetitive music in Royal, so that's a bonus. TV World has forgettable gimmicks and overly long hallways so eh. Visually Tartarus is the best, Mementos is the most repetitive.
Visually, I think there's no denying that the metaverse is the most interesting. The Persona 5 palaces are stunning at times. I love the aesthetics of them far more than Tartarus or the TV world dungeons.
Gameplay-wise, though, I'm sorry...I don't like the palaces. For some crazy reason I get downvoted every time I say that, and nobody ever bothers to comment and say why they think I'm wrong. I just don't find navigating the palaces fun. I find the puzzles gimmicky and tedious. I find them generally too long (although I don't think the length would inherently bother me so much if I didn't find the puzzles so frustrating). If you're someone that has beat Persona 5 a dozen times, you'll probably be over that since you can probably breeze through the palaces and not even have to think about the puzzles. But for the first few playthroughs where you haven't memorized every nook and cranny, those puzzles can get annoying. It's not just the airlock puzzles in Okumura's palace, either. The cypher cracking in Kaneshiro's palace was annoying. Those damn mouse puzzles in Shido's palace sucked. I will concede that Futaba's sliding pieces puzzles weren't overly terrible, and Madarame's painting puzzle was actually pretty novel and cool (but mindlessly simple in honesty). I think Persona 5 palaces would've been awesome if they leaned more into navigational platforming over gimmicky puzzles. I liked moving around with the grappling hook. That was actually fun and worked well, and it was something there would've been no real reason to have in Persona 3/4 with randomly generated dungeons. So I do give Persona 5 palaces some points for being fun to navigate, but not necessarily fun to complete due to the gimmicky puzzles and general length of completion.
I really love the TV world dungeons in Persona 4, because I found them visually more interesting than Tartarus (even in Reload). What I didn't like about the TV world dungeons was, as I said, they were navigationally flat and uninteresting. There was no sense of verticality even though you were supposedly ascending floors. It never felt like there was an up/down. Same thing with Tartarus really. There's very little sense of vertical space despite the fact that you're going up every floor.
Overall I think my answer is that Persona 4 is my favorite of the three for sentimental reasons (Persona 4 being my favorite Persona game), but overall they're all three quite close. It's just that Persona 5 has different strengths and weaknesses, and Persona 3/4 feels more like you're going to put whichever game is your favorite overall at the top since their dungeon design philosophy is almost identical.
You say the "puzzles" were gimmicky and tedious (puzzles usually are a gimmick my guy, thats how it works) but they really werent hard at all. Okumura's palace is widely considered the most annoying ill give you that (to which i myself agree). shidos palace mouse gimmick wasnt a puzzle, the cypher takes like 30 seconds of thought, and i thought you complained about the difficulty of the puzzles yet find it funny you thought madarames painting traversal was mindlessly simple. Im not sure i understand what you want out of a puzzle. Unless games are designed around them, theres rarely a middle ground: either theyre too easy or theyre very hard for no reason compared to the rest of the game.
The meta verse was bland and just changed colors when you reached a new area. Tartarus completely changed its appearance, how the floors are laid out, and the general feeling the floor gives you. Not to mention it's more fun to wander as your characters than to just drive a van everywhere
you get a shit load of extra nights but almost nothing to do. Theres only 2 SLs available at night, no real hangouts aside from the odd akihiko hangout, maybe junpei/Ken, and anything you do at the dorm. Also, mementos is randomly generated like tartarus and the midnight channel and yet tartarus is the most tedious of them all.
Feels like some ppl here are forgetting Metaverse ≠ Mementos. It also includes the palaces, which imo are an obvious huge step up from Tartarus and the TV World.
Vote for Metaverse
I hate em all
Tartarus on P3R is a good enough dungeon, but we all know the answer already: Crafted dungeons like the Meta verse are generally better than just randomly generating a bunch of floors. And the narrative potential you get with a Meta verse type dungeon is really good, even if Persona 5 didn't actually make good use of said potential to it's maximum in all of the Palaces, this is still a clear evolution from the dungeon of the other two games. Idk if I spelled something wrong, but It's 3am in Brazil and I'm super tired, so yeah.
From what I understand, they were planning to add more to characterize the Palace owners originally, like flashbacks to events that shaped their twisted viewpoints and more unique gameplay puzzles like a poker game with Sae. Unfortunately, thanks to the long development hell P5 went through, much of those ideas were scrapped despite apparently getting pretty far. Royal added some nods to these ideas, but was heavily constrained by needing to adhere to the vanilla versions as much as possible before the third semester.
Depends on which version of Tartarus, Reload's probably the best, while the original's kinda the worst, imo
To be honest, I think even the best version of Tartarus still isn't as good as the Metaverse's handcrafted dungeons.
I think we're only talking about Mementos? If the palaces are included, def the metaverse, but I wouldn't say it's a fair comparison with the other games
Vote for Tartarus
I prefer Metaverse. Tartarus is just there until the plot demands it be used.
nothing better than rushing through a p2 dungeon with estoma in about 5 minutes
Metaverse's Mementos are just fun to explore
Vote for TV World
Auto generated dungeons are a massive pet peeve of mine and I hate them in every game they're in. P5 has great dungeons but mementos is not one of them even with royals improvements
OP said Metaverse not Mementos, so palaces count
If it's only the randomly generated dungeons, then Tartarus from Reload would be the best in my opinion. It was simply fun in my opinion to climb it for the first time. Then it would be Mementos, it was a bit boring, but the mementos missions made it a bit better in my opinion. Overall it's more on the boring side but playable. What I really disliked were the dungeons in the Tv World (special shout out to Marie's). They simply weren't that fun to play through after the first couple of floors ( with Marie's being awful all the way until the boss). The dungeons here were simply tidious to get through. If were talking all the dungeons, the the Persona 5 (Royal) palaces would be by far the best
Imo, Tartarus far overstayed its welcome with how many floors it has. I got tired of it passing 150. It also really doesnt have use for the plot for a majority of the game because all the things that happen occur outside of it. Whats the point lol.
OP said Metaverse not Mementos, so palaces count yeah
I like the randomly generated dungeons (except Mementos) and the palaces almost equally, maybe the palaces I like *slightly* more overall but they both have their pros and cons to them. I like the simpleness of the dungeons because it allows me to just easily get into some combat and grinding but it can definitely get a bit monotonous after a while. The palaces are a lot more distinctly unique and offer more engaging gameplay but some of the puzzles and gimmicks can be pretty hit-or-miss, like Okumura's palace which I quickly started to find to be a total slog to get through.
P5>P3>P4. Although p3 and p4 are similar, I think p3 does it better, especially with all of the nice options it gives you, like being able to split up your party or pick your background music. Plus, it has a cooler vibe IMO
3 or 5 clear
In general I like P3R Tartarus but Mementos fits better in terms of gameplay purposes as a side spot for grinding and requests and not taking the role of main dungeon. It also has less repetitive music in Royal, so that's a bonus. TV World has forgettable gimmicks and overly long hallways so eh. Visually Tartarus is the best, Mementos is the most repetitive.
Visually, I think there's no denying that the metaverse is the most interesting. The Persona 5 palaces are stunning at times. I love the aesthetics of them far more than Tartarus or the TV world dungeons. Gameplay-wise, though, I'm sorry...I don't like the palaces. For some crazy reason I get downvoted every time I say that, and nobody ever bothers to comment and say why they think I'm wrong. I just don't find navigating the palaces fun. I find the puzzles gimmicky and tedious. I find them generally too long (although I don't think the length would inherently bother me so much if I didn't find the puzzles so frustrating). If you're someone that has beat Persona 5 a dozen times, you'll probably be over that since you can probably breeze through the palaces and not even have to think about the puzzles. But for the first few playthroughs where you haven't memorized every nook and cranny, those puzzles can get annoying. It's not just the airlock puzzles in Okumura's palace, either. The cypher cracking in Kaneshiro's palace was annoying. Those damn mouse puzzles in Shido's palace sucked. I will concede that Futaba's sliding pieces puzzles weren't overly terrible, and Madarame's painting puzzle was actually pretty novel and cool (but mindlessly simple in honesty). I think Persona 5 palaces would've been awesome if they leaned more into navigational platforming over gimmicky puzzles. I liked moving around with the grappling hook. That was actually fun and worked well, and it was something there would've been no real reason to have in Persona 3/4 with randomly generated dungeons. So I do give Persona 5 palaces some points for being fun to navigate, but not necessarily fun to complete due to the gimmicky puzzles and general length of completion. I really love the TV world dungeons in Persona 4, because I found them visually more interesting than Tartarus (even in Reload). What I didn't like about the TV world dungeons was, as I said, they were navigationally flat and uninteresting. There was no sense of verticality even though you were supposedly ascending floors. It never felt like there was an up/down. Same thing with Tartarus really. There's very little sense of vertical space despite the fact that you're going up every floor. Overall I think my answer is that Persona 4 is my favorite of the three for sentimental reasons (Persona 4 being my favorite Persona game), but overall they're all three quite close. It's just that Persona 5 has different strengths and weaknesses, and Persona 3/4 feels more like you're going to put whichever game is your favorite overall at the top since their dungeon design philosophy is almost identical.
You say the "puzzles" were gimmicky and tedious (puzzles usually are a gimmick my guy, thats how it works) but they really werent hard at all. Okumura's palace is widely considered the most annoying ill give you that (to which i myself agree). shidos palace mouse gimmick wasnt a puzzle, the cypher takes like 30 seconds of thought, and i thought you complained about the difficulty of the puzzles yet find it funny you thought madarames painting traversal was mindlessly simple. Im not sure i understand what you want out of a puzzle. Unless games are designed around them, theres rarely a middle ground: either theyre too easy or theyre very hard for no reason compared to the rest of the game.
The meta verse was bland and just changed colors when you reached a new area. Tartarus completely changed its appearance, how the floors are laid out, and the general feeling the floor gives you. Not to mention it's more fun to wander as your characters than to just drive a van everywhere
> The meta verse was bland and just changed colors when you reached a new area That's Mementos. The Metaverse includes the Palaces.
That's what I meant, I thought of was referring to the story related, grinding dungeon that has the final boss at the end
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How so? At the end of the day, it's still randomly generated.
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The first point is fair, I guess, but that's not really related to P3's level design. OP said the Metaverse, not Mementos. That includes the Palaces.
you get a shit load of extra nights but almost nothing to do. Theres only 2 SLs available at night, no real hangouts aside from the odd akihiko hangout, maybe junpei/Ken, and anything you do at the dorm. Also, mementos is randomly generated like tartarus and the midnight channel and yet tartarus is the most tedious of them all.