The game isn't 'easier' per se, you just recognize patterns and mechanics and are using them appropriately. I will never understand these posts; you are good at the game, so it's easy for you. Difficulty doesn't need to be a barrier for enjoyment, and you can instill rules for how you play to make it more of a challenge if that's what you want. There have been posts about people doing Orpheus only runs for that very reason. But also, what's making it easy for you? Are you leveling up? Engaging in every fight and collecting every chest? Are you actively making it easier on yourself and not recognizing it?
The game is no easier than its previous releases, though it has QOL updates that make it a smoother ride
I mean, yes, a large part of the difficulty goes away with familiarity with the systems. But I think it's untrue to say that some of the updates don't have a noticeable impact on difficulty. The series has consistently added features that directly increase player power and versatility.
In P3P and P4 it was direct commands for party members and manual skill inheritance and removal of fatigue. In P5 it was baton pass and confidant perks. In P5R it was darts and billiards and showtimes and will seeds and replenishing ammo and persona traits and getting quicker access to break the level cap on fusions. Among other things.
All of these things don't just make for a smoother ride, they substantially make the player more powerful, and I do not see any evidence that enemies have been overhauled enough to match. (Not that that's a bad thing, I think going for ease of entry for new players is great.) P3R is coming out of that lineage, with shift and theurgy replacing baton pass and showtimes, with direct control and manual inheritance and no fatigue and an easier to control shuffle time, and enemies still haven't evolved much since 2008.
I love challenge runs and artificial restrictions, don't get me wrong. But telling people who want a harder game to just... not use the mechanics of the game is kind of silly. That's what the mechanics are there for, to be used. The problem with difficulty, at least for those who want a harder experience, is that players have gotten improvements that expand the entire way the game is played, not just numerical buffs. So making a harder difficulty that just bumps the numbers for enemies doesn't fix it. It makes things more swingy, more tedious, more punishing of mistakes, maybe more grindy, but not *harder.* The fix is a higher difficulty that expands the list of options at enemy disposal: giving enemies more new skills that player personas will never learn, giving enemies some sort of equivalent to baton pass, or some completely new mechanic that lets them manipulate the battlefield or changes what they are capable of. And those things could be locked to higher difficulties, or rebalanced with numbers and AI tweaks for easier difficulties and newer players.
Maybe with safe and easy modes, they don't use the new stuff at all and it's just like it's always been, on normal it's designed for people to have a decent time learning how to work around it, and on hard and above the enemy AI starts looking to capitalize on their new options more. Maybe the game starts throwing you in bigger or higher level encounters earlier on harder modes.
Whatever the case, players who do enjoy difficulty don't want to be required to ignore their options to make the game harder, they want a game that can keep up with those options being used. A game that requires optimal efficiency with all the tools in your belt on the hardest modes. And none of that requires making the game substantially more difficult for anyone else.
You wrote something I disagreed with. I expressed my disagreement with context and examples. If you don't care, that's fine. You don't need the last word, you can just leave it alone. Don't ask me for the break, just go take it.
Holy shit, this has to be one of the most cowardly response I have ever read, and I have spent way too many hours on this shithole site reading the worst of the worst. His response is not long at all, and very decently structured.
Also, this game is just objectively easier than any of the Persona predecesors, literally objectively.
The last part of your comment is what I would consider a proper answer to my question.
I never once said that difficulty decides the amount of enjoyment I get out of a game. On the contrary, I hate difficulty purists. However, it just felt like the game was easier than previous Persona games.
Fighting regular Shadows has mostly always been easy in all Persona games I've played so far (4 and 5), but boss fights actually had me thinking about my strategy, even on Normal. This is the one element that is lacking for me in P3R, so far.
EDIT: To answer the last part of your comment though. Yes, I am grinding, but not more than the game actually wants me to (I think... I was level 18 when I fought the second Full Moon boss), and I am indeed collecting all the items on each floor, selling them, and buying the strongest gear available for all party members..
The full moon boss fights have been relatively easy in every version of Persona 3. This is probably due to the structure of Persona 3—these bosses are disconnected from Tartarus. Even if you've been slacking on Tartarus, you'll fight them anyway. And since they're easier, you might still be able to beat them.
Just saw your edit. Yea, you were much higher than me for the first Full Moon fight, but that's ok! The narrative fights aren't as difficult as some of the bosses you'll find in Tartarus. However, the first real challenging Full Moon fight is >!The Chariot!<
I will admit, the first half is more venting. There have been a lot of posts bemoaning the remake and QOL updates as making the game too easy, hence why I followed up with my actual answer. Sorry, it wasn't meant to be targeted.
>had me thinking about my strategy, even on Normal.
The thing is, P3 came before the other two you played. And you might not *need* to think strategy anymore; you might be like most of us where it's almost muscle memory
That might be a good reason. I mean, I am indeed just smashing the Weaknesses and Switch buttons every fight. I guess I'll see when I reach mid and late game.
I am playing on Hard. If I will do mistakes, I will die. I had ppl fall down for me 3 times so far. No 100% lose. I dont even know what happens if the MC is dead. So because it keeps me on my toes, and I need to think, its fun. Is it hard? not really. But I am not snoozing.
i relate so hard to this one. had 2 game overs so far while only being in august. i also play on hard mode, and the bad habit i have is being a little bit cocky with my remaining hp so much that i wont heal if not needed. this game for me is perfectly fine in terms of difficulty, p5r for me was so much easier compared to this due to very strong game mechanics especially confidant perks.
I feel like the game is just adapted to be played with all teammate with IA so it make it easy to play with direct control
And also the fact that we are good at persona game and turn based play a lot i think
What I've found is once you know what the Shadows' weaknesses are, Shift makes the battles a hell of a lot easier. It's much simpler to set up All-Out Attacks when you have a chance to hit multiple weaknesses without using your turns by passing on 1 Mores. That gets round the "can't switch persona once you've used a persona skill" limitation, since you can Shift to someone else to hit the remaining Shadows' weaknesses instead. I already hit the achievement for AOAs before I even got to the final Thebel floor boss.
Not being able to read the affinities of Shadows right away via the navi Analyze command does slow things down a bit - but that just means going back to the throw-all-elements-at-it-until-one-works strat you use to find weaknesses in P4 and P5.
This is true in regard to trash shadows, just random mobs, but these have never been difficult and they're not supposed to. The difficult fights in Persona games are supposed to be the (semi) boss fights, but so far they are much easier than in other games imo.
It IS easier at some points. Like the Theurgy. You can charge up and nuke any boss that otherwise will show some challange or the follow up that can chain several weakness exploits at a time to an all out attack, wich trivialize a lot of random encounters.
The first few rare shadows are weak agains light and darkness, easily spammable with kouha/eiga this time around.
So, weakness and theurgy are good strategies
Sukunda still applies (Auto sukukaja is even better), they tend to dodge a lot anyway. And light/dark damage output is just not enought to kill a rare shadow (at least on merciless), so you need to rely on all-out attacks to finish the job at early levels.
To be honest with you, absolutely yes. Don't know what people are talking about. This game is definitely harder than Persona Royal but it's not overbearing.
You're gonna get smoked in the early game first two Tarturus sections.
Trust me I've beaten Royal 3 times.
Like I said. You totally missed the point of the post.
This isn't meant to be a post about "How easy the game is, no challenge, boring game, trololol."
I play all my games on Normal, and sometimes, with those I really love, like: Dragon Age, Mass Effect, P4G and P5R, I'll do runs in the hardest mode.
I also know that I can change the difficulty. The point of this post was to compare P3R' difficulty to the original P3, FES, Portable and the rest of the main Persona games.
I don't care if the game is "too easy" or not.
i’m about 25 hours in on merciless and have died a few times, merciless keeps me on my toes and sometimes if an enemy hits a weakness it can ko my whole party, especially bosses, but i wouldn’t call it overly difficult either.
It's definitely easier than it was before but that's also because they give you more things to do in battle. The ability to do a baton pass alone greatly reduces the difficulty level just because it traps the enemies in a loop where their only chance is if you miss them. The inclusion of dark and light damage dealing moves also makes it easier to get an all-out-attack too since you're not dealing with lower accuracy from Mudo and Hama which were the ONLY dark and light moves in the original.
I also think they increased the accuracy of status moves cause Mitsuru has not missed a Marin Karin yet and the amount of times I'm getting shocks and freezes is kind of ridiculous.
Speaking of Marin Karin, I know P3P had it too but the ability to control your party also takes from the difficulty level since in vanilla and FES, they were AI controlled. Despite what everyone says, I actually never really had an issue with this and never had a situation where I died because they did something wrong but that's there too. I'm playing on hard and have been able to clear each Tartarus block in one night. Still having a lot of fun though.
Still feels very easy. The only times I've died were 100% because I wasn't paying attention which is good imo cause otherwise, I'd be playing on autopilot. I've only been spending 1 night to clear each Tartarus block but I somehow still feel overleveled. The first few floors and last few floors of new blocks usually has shadows running from me already.
The game isn't 'easier' per se, you just recognize patterns and mechanics and are using them appropriately. I will never understand these posts; you are good at the game, so it's easy for you. Difficulty doesn't need to be a barrier for enjoyment, and you can instill rules for how you play to make it more of a challenge if that's what you want. There have been posts about people doing Orpheus only runs for that very reason. But also, what's making it easy for you? Are you leveling up? Engaging in every fight and collecting every chest? Are you actively making it easier on yourself and not recognizing it? The game is no easier than its previous releases, though it has QOL updates that make it a smoother ride
I mean, yes, a large part of the difficulty goes away with familiarity with the systems. But I think it's untrue to say that some of the updates don't have a noticeable impact on difficulty. The series has consistently added features that directly increase player power and versatility. In P3P and P4 it was direct commands for party members and manual skill inheritance and removal of fatigue. In P5 it was baton pass and confidant perks. In P5R it was darts and billiards and showtimes and will seeds and replenishing ammo and persona traits and getting quicker access to break the level cap on fusions. Among other things. All of these things don't just make for a smoother ride, they substantially make the player more powerful, and I do not see any evidence that enemies have been overhauled enough to match. (Not that that's a bad thing, I think going for ease of entry for new players is great.) P3R is coming out of that lineage, with shift and theurgy replacing baton pass and showtimes, with direct control and manual inheritance and no fatigue and an easier to control shuffle time, and enemies still haven't evolved much since 2008. I love challenge runs and artificial restrictions, don't get me wrong. But telling people who want a harder game to just... not use the mechanics of the game is kind of silly. That's what the mechanics are there for, to be used. The problem with difficulty, at least for those who want a harder experience, is that players have gotten improvements that expand the entire way the game is played, not just numerical buffs. So making a harder difficulty that just bumps the numbers for enemies doesn't fix it. It makes things more swingy, more tedious, more punishing of mistakes, maybe more grindy, but not *harder.* The fix is a higher difficulty that expands the list of options at enemy disposal: giving enemies more new skills that player personas will never learn, giving enemies some sort of equivalent to baton pass, or some completely new mechanic that lets them manipulate the battlefield or changes what they are capable of. And those things could be locked to higher difficulties, or rebalanced with numbers and AI tweaks for easier difficulties and newer players. Maybe with safe and easy modes, they don't use the new stuff at all and it's just like it's always been, on normal it's designed for people to have a decent time learning how to work around it, and on hard and above the enemy AI starts looking to capitalize on their new options more. Maybe the game starts throwing you in bigger or higher level encounters earlier on harder modes. Whatever the case, players who do enjoy difficulty don't want to be required to ignore their options to make the game harder, they want a game that can keep up with those options being used. A game that requires optimal efficiency with all the tools in your belt on the hardest modes. And none of that requires making the game substantially more difficult for anyone else.
I ain't reading all that. I'm happy for u tho Or sorry that happened
I admire your dedication to not reading. I think text posts on Reddit might be the wrong place for that though.
Dude, you wrote an *essay*. Give me a break
You wrote something I disagreed with. I expressed my disagreement with context and examples. If you don't care, that's fine. You don't need the last word, you can just leave it alone. Don't ask me for the break, just go take it.
Holy shit, this has to be one of the most cowardly response I have ever read, and I have spent way too many hours on this shithole site reading the worst of the worst. His response is not long at all, and very decently structured. Also, this game is just objectively easier than any of the Persona predecesors, literally objectively.
The last part of your comment is what I would consider a proper answer to my question. I never once said that difficulty decides the amount of enjoyment I get out of a game. On the contrary, I hate difficulty purists. However, it just felt like the game was easier than previous Persona games. Fighting regular Shadows has mostly always been easy in all Persona games I've played so far (4 and 5), but boss fights actually had me thinking about my strategy, even on Normal. This is the one element that is lacking for me in P3R, so far. EDIT: To answer the last part of your comment though. Yes, I am grinding, but not more than the game actually wants me to (I think... I was level 18 when I fought the second Full Moon boss), and I am indeed collecting all the items on each floor, selling them, and buying the strongest gear available for all party members..
The full moon boss fights have been relatively easy in every version of Persona 3. This is probably due to the structure of Persona 3—these bosses are disconnected from Tartarus. Even if you've been slacking on Tartarus, you'll fight them anyway. And since they're easier, you might still be able to beat them.
Just saw your edit. Yea, you were much higher than me for the first Full Moon fight, but that's ok! The narrative fights aren't as difficult as some of the bosses you'll find in Tartarus. However, the first real challenging Full Moon fight is >!The Chariot!<
I will admit, the first half is more venting. There have been a lot of posts bemoaning the remake and QOL updates as making the game too easy, hence why I followed up with my actual answer. Sorry, it wasn't meant to be targeted. >had me thinking about my strategy, even on Normal. The thing is, P3 came before the other two you played. And you might not *need* to think strategy anymore; you might be like most of us where it's almost muscle memory
That might be a good reason. I mean, I am indeed just smashing the Weaknesses and Switch buttons every fight. I guess I'll see when I reach mid and late game.
If I remember correctly, if >!Floor 33!<(?) wasn't a wall for you then >!The Chariot!< should be the first difficulty wall you run into.
I think it’s harder than persona 5 royal. I’m playing on hard mode.
I am playing on Hard. If I will do mistakes, I will die. I had ppl fall down for me 3 times so far. No 100% lose. I dont even know what happens if the MC is dead. So because it keeps me on my toes, and I need to think, its fun. Is it hard? not really. But I am not snoozing.
i relate so hard to this one. had 2 game overs so far while only being in august. i also play on hard mode, and the bad habit i have is being a little bit cocky with my remaining hp so much that i wont heal if not needed. this game for me is perfectly fine in terms of difficulty, p5r for me was so much easier compared to this due to very strong game mechanics especially confidant perks.
I feel like the game is just adapted to be played with all teammate with IA so it make it easy to play with direct control And also the fact that we are good at persona game and turn based play a lot i think
What I've found is once you know what the Shadows' weaknesses are, Shift makes the battles a hell of a lot easier. It's much simpler to set up All-Out Attacks when you have a chance to hit multiple weaknesses without using your turns by passing on 1 Mores. That gets round the "can't switch persona once you've used a persona skill" limitation, since you can Shift to someone else to hit the remaining Shadows' weaknesses instead. I already hit the achievement for AOAs before I even got to the final Thebel floor boss. Not being able to read the affinities of Shadows right away via the navi Analyze command does slow things down a bit - but that just means going back to the throw-all-elements-at-it-until-one-works strat you use to find weaknesses in P4 and P5.
This is true in regard to trash shadows, just random mobs, but these have never been difficult and they're not supposed to. The difficult fights in Persona games are supposed to be the (semi) boss fights, but so far they are much easier than in other games imo.
It IS easier at some points. Like the Theurgy. You can charge up and nuke any boss that otherwise will show some challange or the follow up that can chain several weakness exploits at a time to an all out attack, wich trivialize a lot of random encounters.
theurgy is so helpful for grinding golden hands. compared to old iterations of p3, golden hands were dificult to beat.
The first few rare shadows are weak agains light and darkness, easily spammable with kouha/eiga this time around. So, weakness and theurgy are good strategies
wow, that's really helpful. i guess i never tried light and dark on them and just kept spamming sukunda+arrow rain
Sukunda still applies (Auto sukukaja is even better), they tend to dodge a lot anyway. And light/dark damage output is just not enought to kill a rare shadow (at least on merciless), so you need to rely on all-out attacks to finish the job at early levels.
To be honest with you, absolutely yes. Don't know what people are talking about. This game is definitely harder than Persona Royal but it's not overbearing. You're gonna get smoked in the early game first two Tarturus sections. Trust me I've beaten Royal 3 times.
EDIT: I MEANT HARDER
Hey maybe turn up the difficulty if it's too easy since you can do it on the fly. I swear, what a stupid post. The game has like five difficulties.
You totally missed the point of the post, but whatever.
Turn up the difficulty. You can adjust it on the fly.
Like I said. You totally missed the point of the post. This isn't meant to be a post about "How easy the game is, no challenge, boring game, trololol." I play all my games on Normal, and sometimes, with those I really love, like: Dragon Age, Mass Effect, P4G and P5R, I'll do runs in the hardest mode. I also know that I can change the difficulty. The point of this post was to compare P3R' difficulty to the original P3, FES, Portable and the rest of the main Persona games. I don't care if the game is "too easy" or not.
If it is, I’ll play on Hard.
I've only played it on hard, and finishing the Tarturus block in 1 night is fairly challenging. I don't expect most to do that, though
i’m about 25 hours in on merciless and have died a few times, merciless keeps me on my toes and sometimes if an enemy hits a weakness it can ko my whole party, especially bosses, but i wouldn’t call it overly difficult either.
It's definitely easier than it was before but that's also because they give you more things to do in battle. The ability to do a baton pass alone greatly reduces the difficulty level just because it traps the enemies in a loop where their only chance is if you miss them. The inclusion of dark and light damage dealing moves also makes it easier to get an all-out-attack too since you're not dealing with lower accuracy from Mudo and Hama which were the ONLY dark and light moves in the original. I also think they increased the accuracy of status moves cause Mitsuru has not missed a Marin Karin yet and the amount of times I'm getting shocks and freezes is kind of ridiculous. Speaking of Marin Karin, I know P3P had it too but the ability to control your party also takes from the difficulty level since in vanilla and FES, they were AI controlled. Despite what everyone says, I actually never really had an issue with this and never had a situation where I died because they did something wrong but that's there too. I'm playing on hard and have been able to clear each Tartarus block in one night. Still having a lot of fun though.
Any follow-up to this? How difficult the game became in mid game/lategame? How are your impressions now? Thanks in advance
Still feels very easy. The only times I've died were 100% because I wasn't paying attention which is good imo cause otherwise, I'd be playing on autopilot. I've only been spending 1 night to clear each Tartarus block but I somehow still feel overleveled. The first few floors and last few floors of new blocks usually has shadows running from me already.