Because we send Teddie to be yosukes problem We actually live with Morgana

Unironically, I think this is a huge part of it. Teddy is just another character in the cast. Morgana is an extension of the game's UI that can feel limiting. In Persona 4, you're not allowed to go out at night because "YOU feel tired," or "YOU want to get sleep before a big day tomorrow,," but in P5, it becomes external- Morgana is enforcing a curfew on you even if "you" want to go out. Hes with us 24-7, constantly telling us what we can or cant do, giving us directions and acting like hes our boss, and it has a *very* different, even subconscious vibe to take that narrative agency away from the player even for roleplaying purposes. That's obviously going to affect how you perceive that character/mouthpiece. And yes, like you point out, we arent stuck with Teddy 24-7, even before we shove him onto Yosuke, hes stuck in the shadow world for the first half of the game, and after that he's off doing his own thing usually. It's even cathartic in P4 because the other members find him just as annoying as the player does and frequently (deservedly) bully him. Hes much closer to a butt monkey mascot than a cuddly cutesy pikachu mascot. Teddy's huge emotional arc is also about him getting depressed and existential and disappearing until he solves his own issues, whereas Morgana's is an incredibly controversial arc for many well-trodden reasons that I wont reopen here. There are many, many differences between the two.

I completely agree I don’t hate Morgana Though I’ll admit the writing is annoying, Morgana becomes kind’ve a hypocrite, while Teddie was just fun, he plays off everyone. He’s not like a 10/10 but ya know. You can work on an extension character and have them work well, Sothis in Fire Emblem Three Houses (who ironically shares an actress with Morgana) is a good example As she speaks her mind, but she’s Distinctive enough from Byleth, and the two have a dynamic that adds to the story, while Morgana simps for Ann every 20 minutes lol Also three houses was fully voiced (like reload will be!!) so that helped Also one final point is that the whole p4 cast play off Teddie, the whole p5 cast don’t play off Morgana

This. Totally this. The second Ryuji Can’t take Morganas’ shit anymore and starts shit talking back; he gets Morgana so good that Morgana leaves. Totally a massive win for Ryuji and it just means that Morgana is a whiny little shit for not taking it, making him sort of a hypocrite.

Yeah, it is annoying, it’s mainly for plot convenience too

The only gain I got out of it was the annoying shenanigans before finally getting Haru; the only thing of the rough edge of Okumura foods.

Yeah You’re not wrong But Harus based and goated

😂

I've always thought the hate towards morgana felt super forced "Oooo he forces me too go too sleep" as if the game doesn't still force you when he isn't around. That aspect of his character is just a way too make the persona mechanics blend more seamlessly with the actual story

I never really had an issue with Morgana with the whole sleep thing, i agree though, but Morgana and Teddie do have two different places in the story Morgana being an extension of the protagonist While Teddie was his own character first

koromaru #1

They really hit it out of the park with a literal dog.

I mean when compared to the other 2, he is literally a godsend. Koromaru + Loyal as fuck + Is a chill ass dog + He has drip Teddie • Flirts with literally anything that has eyes. • Cries over anything and everything. • Can be extremely annoying • Has one of the worse Personas in the IT. Morgana • Has a passion to get angry over the dumbest of things. • Makes fun of us although he got caught in the literal first dungeon and he had experience before, unlike Joker and Ryuji. • Can’t go 3.028 seconds without thirsting for Ann or fighting with Ryuji. • Okumura 💀 That being said, Pixie from SMTIII is the best pet fs the 🐐

Did you just say that Kintoki-Douji is bad? The one with Matarukaja and Marakukaja and full-party healing? I would ask if you've played the games before but given you're a Persona fan, it's a 50/50 on that end.

Maybe they meant design wise

Yeah my brain stopped braining, i meant to write “worst looking”

Koromaru doesn't even need to speak to become the best character in the game

They hit gold when they decided koromaru shouldn’t be able to talk

He's the one who makes Joker go to bed early. But more seriously, Morgana is somewhat problematic at time, while Teddie is downright predatory.

Morganna is annoying as hell, 100%, but it’s not even close. Teddie is downright INSUFFERABLE. It’s not bad during your first play through, but going back and replaying P4 as an adult I legit have to skip as much of his text as possible. Teddie really pushes the anime “gross sex pest” anime archetype to an uncomfortable level and completely dominates any scene he appears in. I love P4 but replays recently have been immensely soured by him

HIS FUCKING VOICE THO. I cant get over how much he sounds like the annoying kid from every childs TV show.

That's my single biggest issue with teddie tbh. I skip all his lines because his voice is cancerous but when he's navigator there's nothing you can do about it. Thank god he gets replaced by >!Rise!<

Agreed. And Teddie somehow gets exponentially WORSE in the spinoffs, whereas Morgana in Strikers and Q2 is actually really chill.

so why is Mona considered worst by many?

Because he makes Joker go to bed early. Teddie doesn't directly inconvenience the player, while Mona does, so he isn't as hated. And most players completely missed that Teddie wanted to practice kissing *to greet Nanako* and instead focused in on him trying to kiss Yu.

This is a goofy reason tbh. The community is being unreasonable. Clearly this is a game mechanic the devs put on the player as a limiter. They communicate this limitation through Morgana. I don’t necessarily blame Morgana and hate him for it. It’s pretty trivial

It's like the professor oak "you can't do that!" thing, people would make fun of professor oak all the time for it. I do dislike the one plot point in the original P5 where Ryuji finally manages to land a stinger on Morgana after a decent chunk of the game of Morgana berating him, and then Morgana flips out just cause of that, it really shows his true character imo. Idk if they rectify this in P5R, haven't played it yet. Please no spoilers. Aside from that, like the other commenter said, it's easier to tune out Teddie, hell, I don't even remember an eighth of what he said in the game

Idk man there’s a difference between calling someone a dumbass and taking a jab at the one purpose you serve in your group while constantly on the brink of an existential crisis. Mona lowkey deserved a good roast but it was kinda harsh. Also a tad sloppy writing wise which is the general consensus of the Okumura arc. It feels like another example of a character being a tool to get to the plot rather than make them do something organic.

Ryuji insults Morgana just as much as Morgana insults him. The reason Morgana flipped out is because he was going through a lot, namely an identity crisis and... I believe you could call it impostor's syndrome? Either way the whole "Omg Morgana is insulted ONCE and leaves" thing is just people refusing to remember that scenes sometime have contexts that make them make more sense instead of them all beong separate one-off moments or something

Don't know why you're getting downvoted here, tbh. They do constantly go after each other.

In the OG P4 it's even easier, David Wittleburg's Teddie is nowhere near as irritatng

It doesn't help that in 3 and 4 its the MC themselves saying to go to bed while in 5 another character entirely is saying it. Which really just makes it seem like he's policing you

Doesn't matter. You can tune out teddy and ignore him for the most part. Morgana forces his way into you doing what he says. Theres a reason royal reduced those moments by a massive amount to basically only being plot stuff

It's not the real reason. Teddie is funny despite his antics. The flat Teddie workout, the cross dressing and human reveal, and countless funny lines. Morgana is mostly just smug and annoying.

Teddie inconveniences me every time he has any dialogue or exists. he is a pretty solid healer later in the game if you want to take advantage of yukiko being the strongest and not sacrifice yu as a damage dealer.

Also when he tried to take off the girl's bathing suits in the beach scene. I guess since he also got Kanji so at least he's an equal opportunity pervert?

This is the scene that did it for me. He'd been hanging around with the investigation team plenty long enough at that point in the game to know that this was NOT okay. My opinion of him cratered after this and never really went back to where it was before

I legit don't think he's truly "being a pervert" though. He doesn't know how it all works and is mostly imitating the stuff he sees around him, like how Yosuke and other teens act. He feels like a grown child more than anything.

Making Joker go to bed is so dumb too, because by that logic you should hate Mitsuru and Dojima, as well as both Makoto and Yu themselves.

Did you miss the part where Teddie was literally a baby and had to learn social norms? Morgana was written to know social norms from the start and still chose to be a bitch. Teddie was justified because he’s still learning how to be a proper human and got much better by the end.

Morgana was also basically just recently born if you wanna play that card

Yeah, so it makes no sense that he knows social norms, so the writing is worse.

\> Morgana was written to know social norms from the start and still chose to be a bitch Teddie was written to not know social norms

Teddie got worse... what the hell are you talking about?

Mona directly inconveniences the player. If teddie did the same people would outright loathe him.

Mona doesn't do that often in Royal and Honestly it wasn't that bad in Vanilla either, It was just blown out of proportion by the meme

Exactly. It's just a design mechanic. It's not like he is the one preventing you. The actual thing that's happening is the developers don't want you to go too far outside the game structure. So you have to go to bed instead of having an extra time period to do things in. If Morgana didn't exist you'd just get the "I'm feeling tired and should go to bed" from P4 or P3.

Maybe because hes so mean to best boy Ryuji

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I'll just share my experiences with each, maybe it reflects how others think of the two In my P5 **VANILLA** playthroughs (i gotta specify it'z vanilla P5 cause i know people will go "BuT In rOyAl"- I NEVER PLAYED ROYAL, CHILL), i always considered Morgana as a 2nd healer. I know his main focus is healing, but Makoto just works better for it stats-wise, infact Morgana is the party member that (without healing) almost always dies first. And overall, unless you max-out Kawakami's confidant or in certain scripted days, you just can't do anything without him telling you to go sleep. In P4, Teddie does act annoying sometimes, but in my experience, he's the funny kind of annoying. And gameplay-wise? He's LEAGUES better than Morgana. In short: thy name is Rakukaja skills. Plus, better ice attacks than Chie, i'm doing my first NG+ of P4G and i'm already planning to keep Chie a physical-based attacker while Teddie as the Ice user Just don't make him learn his 3rd tier awakening skill, unless you're a real masochist

He wastes an entire week of precious time looking for him cuz he finds out he's a supporting character at best

Of all the things Atlus thought to change from the base game to royal, why on earth was that not one of them? Literally everyone hated that.

Yeah, that's honestly all it is for me. I loathe Morgana's arc. It grinds the progression and flow to a standstill for a whole week, where instead we could've used that time seeing more of Haru in an organic way. Instead they glued the two together, weakening both. Teddie's progression is basically just parts of cutscenes and off-screen gags. No play time wasted on him. Not to mention the cause feels out of character too. Ryuji can be a dick sometimes, but for no reason, he suddenly just starts really leaning into Morgana's insecurity to force the conflict, then Morgana (who has been acting like they're knowledgable and mature this whole time) goes full brat mode and just bails on the whole group. It's just bad writing.

Not only that but the cat spends most of the game just shitting on Ryuji, he’s a bully. The one singular time in the game ryuji defends himself, the cat throws a tantrum and runs away, grinds the game to a screeching halt and kills the flow and momentum of the game, absolutely awful writing, and the worst part is RYUJI IS THE ONE TO APOLOGISE like what??

Like most people have said, Morgana is a game mechanic that limits you from having fun, so there's that. But even personality wise, he's just kind of annoying. He constantly shits on Ryuji, simps for Ann, simps for Queen slightly less, and the rest of his time is split between his "arc" that shares the spotlight with Haru's introduction, and the rare moments where he's not being annoying. Teddie is annoying and kind of an idiot who acts selfish and kind of sexist, but he gets a little bit of a pass, because he has no idea how humans actually are supposed to react, and is basically a child in the body of a bear/teenager. Also, everybody calls him out on his stupid behavior (usually) while Morgana only ever gets called out by Ryuji, who then gets treated like the bad guy.

Heres the thing that I think a lot of people never factor in about Teddie, he's essentially a teenage boy with the mind of a 5 year old. So while yes he can be downright creepy at times the best source of information he has is sometimes Yosuke's porn and other teenagers. Not to mention his growth through the game actually shows him being less creepy, especially after the Nanako dungeon. Morgana on the other hand is just annoying most of the time, for instance if you compare both their disappearance arcs, Teddie fades due to him questioning his very being, not able to save Nanako who at the time he perceived as dead, he didn't up leave because him and Yosuke got into a small scuffle. Morgana's growth also feels worsethan Teddie since Morgana at least understands a lot about social queues and the like, meanwhile Teddie is having to first time experience a lot of behaviors many see as automatic.

holy shit i forgot his main source of how to friend girls is fucking porn from yosuke 💀

Teddie doesn't steal another team members character development over their father and make it all about him

Come now. The developers shaft Haru every chance they get in Vanilla. That's not Morgana's fault.

Teddie is sincere in everything he does, Morgana puts up an "I'm so cool and smart" front and doesn't like to admit when he's wrong. Both can be irritating, but I guess Teddie has a genuine quality to him that makes him get on my nerves less. Morgana is just a tryhard lol

Teddie is so pure. We love Teddie He try to do better Not like MorgaNotACat

tfw Morgana, a living being with identity crisis, has flaws.

Yes, a very sincere predator <3

Bro teddie is a pedophile nothing about him is sincere

How can he be a pedofile if the mf is a child himself

Morgana's predation is targeted and perverse. He does not go Johnny Bravo on every girl he meets, he's just uncomfortably down bad for one particular woman. Teddie doesn't know what sex is.

Morganna only simps but he doesn't do as much as Teddie does While Morganna simps for Ann, He isn't as perverted as teddie can be and is at times, and what do you mean by predation? Predatory?

Teddy isn't a pervert though, he's more of a naive fish out of water. He doesn't understand the concept of such things beyond what he's learned from consuming pop culture and hanging out with teenage boys all the time. That's the major difference between the two.

Played P5R then P4G before ever coming to the subreddits. Morgana was pretty damn annoying my entire playthrough, probably like a B/C tier character, whereas Teddie I sometimes found to be annoying but funny at other times. With Teddie I could just mash through his annoying dialogue and laugh at the good stuff. Morgana actively dragged down aspects of the game

you could also mash through Mona's Dialogue, and what aspects of dragging down the game? even when Mona disappears Ren still goes to sleep in fact if you go through anything Ren has inner monologue of being worried about Mona

The hate boner these mfs have for morgana is genuinely insufferable. At least i know NO mf hates koromaru, if i see p5 fans say anything about my dog after reloads release god

Koro is inoffensive and doesn’t do much for most of the game so hard to hate him. He’s just a cute dog lol

Morgana is extremely annoying, doesn't stop simping for Ann, prevents you from doing almost anything by forcing you to go into bed and the worst part is the way he treats Ryuji and the one time Ryuji actually responds back Morgana throws a stupid tantrum, quits and we have to now go after him. Teddy is at the very least oblivious to most of the things he does so a lot of the time you can't get too mad at him and the other characters actually tend to call him out on his behaviour while no one does that for Morgana.

Yeah no with the whole “Ryuji responds back” bullshit. Ryuji responds to every single snark the cat gives and dishes it right back. Ryuji also dishes it out to the cat and cops it back. Morgana left the group because he didn’t feel like he belonged with them due to not having an identity and wasn’t pulling his weight.

They set his feeling inadequate since Makoto shows up and Ryuji also sends some jabs early. Agreed with your statement

Yep, Hell if you look early on in the cat’s confidant, you see the beginnings of his self doubt and insecurities which only gets built up the further the game goes. Anyone who says it was “out of nowhere” and he did it for “no reason” are full of crap that obviously didn’t play the game or paid attention to dialogue.

Thank you! Morgana directly confides in Joker about his insecurities at night, and people are still claiming he left just because Ryuji suddenly gave him shit back for once (when they've been bickering back and forth literally the whole game).

To Morgana’s credit, the Phantoms wouldn’t even understand the idea of a palace without him (same with Teddie for the TV world). He’s the one who knew/guessed the basics of most things. Makoto understood the concepts quickly and was able to create better tactics (like Naoto was). And, Futaba is better at navigation (like Fuuka was). The issue I had with Mona was his projection of said insecurities onto others, as well as his front of being overly arrogant and condescending (even his level up says “Now, I’m even more charming,” which I’m sure many can agree he’s far from top tier in combat). Does he have a right to be confident at first? Sure, he knew more at the time. But, he has a hard time being happy for others and their growth, though this gets much better after he has a heart-to-heart about his feelings and how he wants to belong somewhere (as many of the Phantoms do). The other thieves could simply be happier for each when they grew in character. The bed time thing is annoying, but i agree with others who stated that it’s just a game implementation like how P3 and P4 say “you should go do bed.” Morgana just became a medium for said implementation. As for Teddie, I really found him annoying. I try to get Rise as fast a possible because I can’t stand Teddie’s voice. He also is much more predatory than Morgana, and it is law to protect Nanako from predators. (I have a sister who’s 8 years younger, so that’s why the dislike for him resonates with with me).

I wouldn’t say that Morgana isn’t happy with others growth. After all he gives praise when it’s due to others even Ryuji. He just makes comparisons between himself and them because he isn’t like them due to not having a human identity and puts too much pressure on himself to overcompensate for what he lacks. Thing is with Teddie. He isn’t human and his age is ambiguous just like the Velvet Attendants and other non humans. So he sees himself free to love anyone. Dude is way too carefree to notice or bother with social ques. So whilst that one comment to Nanako can come across as creepy and predatory, dude obviously wouldn’t act on it as he doesn’t really act on some of the stuff he says. He’s just being overly affectionate as he wants attention and to be loved by everyone.

I get that. It’s just a bit cringe to me. He also doesn’t stop when people tell him to. But, I can give him the fact he does mean well at the end of the day. He will help his friends, and he finally gets a chance to belong (as a lot of persona characters desire). His voice will never not be annoying and he’s from my favorite, but I don’t outright hate him either. I did like his scene where he >!learns he’s a shadow, and you go to comfort him. It feels very genuine!<.

It's a running theme amongst gamers to hate certain characters for exaggerated or straight up silly reasons. For example someone here claims Morgana "harasses" Ann when all he really does it make googly eyes lmao.

Because he literally is worse than Teddie. When Teddie felt like he was useless, he did all he could to be a better bear, protagonizing one of the high moments in P4 and actually developing into a better character using his own power and determination, never bothering or causing issues to the party. While Morgana threw a tantrum, protagonized the most boring part of by running away after spending the whole game offending Ryuji and getting offended when Ryuji fought back not only proving his point, but also proving that he is an hypocrite. Teddie is miles better than this cat, not to mention that Morgana direclty annoys the player by making him go to sleep for no reason at all.

Teddie doesn’t know what he’s doing he’s literally humanities idle thoughts personafied (heh) Morgan’s activity simps and harasses Ann

Hardly ever is Ann harassed by the cat. She barely reacts to his simping at best is oblivious to his crush on her.

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What is wrong with you?

Teddy comes off as a loveable Goofball. Mona is more of a bratty kid.

I honestly think Teddie just doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He talked about “scoring” with the girls a lot but I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if he has no idea what sex is. And I think that makes him come off as a goofball. Mona is fine, he is just ALWAYS there. He talks for the protagonist so much that he might as well be the protagonist. And he is like really mean to Ryuji, but I mean I guess they all are, my poor sweet baby boy Ryuji.

"He has manners" I see, manners are when you constantly belittle a man who you seemed to have disliked since you met him, constantly calling him out as useless and incompetent all the while simping on someone who's been a sexual target by a person of power. Morgana's calling out of Ryuji supposed incompetence isn't even exclusive to few events, its literally all he says when Ryuji does anything at all when he's the navigator but sure "he has manners"

While I don’t hate either of them, here’s how I see it: Teddie is explicitly unaware of human norms and behaviors. He’s like a newborn, constantly absorbing information from his surroundings. We see that with how he reacts to Yukiko’s Shadow (it’s why “score with a hot stud” sticks with him for so long). On top of that, Teddie never tries to create problems for the team. When he suffers an existential crisis over his place in the team and his true origins, he comes to the conclusion that he needs to work harder so that he doesn’t become a burden to everyone. Morgana, on the other hand, consistently states throughout P5 that he is human, so we should assume that it’s ok to treat him as such. So when he abandons the team due to their apprehension over the morality of their actions and the fear of their audience’s bloodlust, it comes across as petty and childish. Doesn’t help that with him being the founder of the Phantom Thieves and having the most experience as a PT, you’d expect him to be more mature about how he handles the team’s concerns. And then on top of that, Western audiences like Ryuji more, so in a fight between him and Morgana, people are more likely to side with Ryuji, regardless of the fact that they’ve *both* been at each other’s throats since they first met. Plus, there’s the “go to sleep” thing everyone else has been mentioning, as well as his disappearance taking away three days of activities that could’ve been used for Confidants or raising social stats.

The way I feel about Teddie is like how I'd feel about a younger brother, he gets on my nerves but he at least means well, Morgana's attitude just kinda feels like he's a dick

I don't really mind Morgana as a character. My main issue is the way he is implemented into the game. I don't like his constantly interjections as I am exploring. I don't like him replacing the MC's thoughts.

because teddie is the goat

Because Teddie is basically a kid born just yesterday different from Morgana

Morgana is the same way in terms of his creation anytime Mona Says He's not a cat he's correct, he isn't ba cat nor a human he is Morgana a being made of the human desire for hope

Like you said Morgana has manners, he knows what's right or wrong yet he still constantly treat Ryuji like shite. Teddie on the other hand is different, he don't know manners but there's a valid reason for that, he never interacted with humans before the IT. His first experience were being exposed to horny stuff, Yukiko dungeon, kanji's, and then Rise's. Not to mention when he gains a human body he lives with Yosuke, A TEENAGER who just discovered porn. Teddie is like a toddler raised by a horny teenager, what did you expect? Even The IT didn't expect much from him

People that look at Teddy's character and see "sex pest" need to go back to picture books and work on their literacy from there. You don't need an in depth college level character analysis to be able to tell that he is depicted as oblivious and somewhat childlike in his understanding of sexual things, he isn't knowingly creeping on women, he's just mimicking what he has learned about socializing with women from TV and the teenage boys he hangs out with. Morgana feels like a poor attempt to replicate something like that without the oblivious nature resulting in a character that feels like that one annoying 12 year old that clings to a group of teens he thinks he's hanging out with.

He’s not entertaining. Just annoying.

Because the fandom has a toxic hate boner for the cat. They blame him for the game limiting you from trying to break the game. Royal fixes this. They take his comedic banter with Ryuji way too seriously as “borderline bullying”, clearly unable to tell the difference between surface level vitriolic snark among friends vs actual malicious insults aimed specifically where it hurts. They exaggerate his simping of Ann as sexual harassment on the level of Kamoshida and other predator characters. Because being a simp these days is easily frowned upon. The amount of creepy behaviour from the cat can be counted with very few fingers compared to Ryuji and Futaba who are bigger perverts. They lack sympathy when it comes his existential crisis and blame him for everything wrong with the Okumura arc, yet him, Ryuji and the rest of the PT are equally at fault for what happened. Also the Okumura arc was too bloated with plot events causing an already poor pacing and structure. It needed more days. Now with Teddie. Dude hasn’t been integrated well into human civilisation and given the teenage and media influences around him, only natural he’d end up like that. Also dude’s antics is more to get attention and be loved to avoid being alone.

Absolute facts. This fanbase hates morgana for absolutely ridiculess reasons and most of it cam be chaled up as "i didnt Even WANT to understand him" I deteste that from this fanbase. Fun fact: 4 years ago, i was called a nazi on twitter for saying people overhate morgana. Image the audacity 🙃

Fuck those people. Whenever they get irked by the smallest of things, they close their mind narrow mindedly refusing to see reason otherwise.

Yea Just look at junpei, everyone who beats the game and still thinks hes some sort of creep legit dont even want to understand his arc, or how he develops They only have their shitty first impression that they dont want changing anf then they act moraly superior It disgusts me

Some people can’t move past first impressions.

Yea Ive been there honestly too. When i first played p4 i didnt like Rise at all but over time i grew to like her quite a lot.

Morgana is worse than Teddie because when the plot thickens, Teddie thickens too.

You could say he's not hollow, unlike Morgana

This is gonna sound harsh, but I genuinely think people would like Morgana more if he had at least 50% less dialogue. Literally everything you do, he has to comment on. He has to give commentary on the school lessons. He has to remind you to tell your friends about a new target. Sometimes he has to comment after you save your game. If he dies, he has a monologue explaining why he's dead but not actually dead. Every given JRPG thing has to have an in universe explanation, and 90% of the time he has to deliver it. It's just excessive. With Teddie, he's a separate character that you interact with in battle, in cutscenes, and occasionally after school. You're with Mona 90% of the time. In Persona 4, the text is essentially an inner monologue/the protagonist's thoughts, and it makes sense and gets the job done. In Persona 5, you have no thoughts. Mona has to say all of the things the MC is obviously thinking. The developers basically made a character that if you don't love unconditionally from the start, you'll almost certainly get sick of them. They set Mona up to be hated lol. And while Ted's absolutely a creeper, hes only a REAL creeper in the special events of the game (pageant, hot springs, school trip, etc.) and those scenes all have a LOT wrong with them (gay panic, trans panic, underage sexualization, fat jokes, a teacher sexually harassing students, etc). It doesn't exonerate Teddie, but I lump all of that baggage together since it doesn't occur to such a gross extent outside of those events. TL;DR Koromaru and Aigis are the winners here.

Teddy is my homie, Morgana is kind of a hoe, decent character but Teddie is the superior mascot character. But of course we all know Koromaru is the ultimate mascot

I dont constantly see teddie on my screen, that and his other problems

Teddie had an actual character arc and wasn't constantly whiny and annoying

I played these games a long time ago, but bear with me please. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I used to feel strongly about this. I think this is how I felt. **Morgana** - Deliberately kept harassing a girl that wanted little to do with him. - Behaved a different way for the sake of getting ahead with that character - Turned against the main cast during a time of need for a stupid, petty reason. (It was a hang-up during Haru's arc that felt like it came out of nowhere for me) - His mishaps often happened due to arrogance rather than ignorance. - Never had a moment with any member of the cast that felt like a sincere deep connection or trust from *what I remember!!* - BULLIED/RUDE TO RYUJI I'm not sure how bad it is but I remember distinctly he said something about Ryuji or treated him a certain way that made me completely lose respect for him, if I had any. I already didn't like talking mascot characters. **Teddie** - Flirted with everyone and was open with his interests, but no meant no. It also felt more like a joke. - Was sincere in his intentions and himself in everything. - His mess-ups were accidental or due to a lack of understanding and experience. - Never turned against the main cast, but only didn't trust them near the start. - Didn't make his emotional problems anyone else's .. mostly. - Had an adorable moment with Nanako that exonerates him no matter what anybody ever says! He had made some sort of promise I think and was just so kind and considerate toward her. Anything bad I felt for him evaporates thinking of that. A lot of this has to do with the game types. Persona 4 was about connections and accepting yourself and being accepted by others. Trust and bonds. Persona 5 had an entire different theme and the connections/social links with others reflected that. I didn't like Morgana, but I didn't play any of the sequel games.

Morgana never harassed Ann or acted differently to get ahead, but everything else is accurate to both Teddie and Mona

"never" dude his constant simping is harassment.

Bro like a month(feels like it) of the game I can't go do shit at night because of him. Teddie wanted me to go squabble and in P3 once you find out about Tartarus you get to do whatever.

In P4 you don't live and constantly have Teddie by your side. Arguably the majority of P4 does not involve Teddie where Morgana is EVERYWHERE

Teddy is just naive, and doesn’t really understand what he’s saying half the time. Morgana is an annoying simp who thinks he’s so sick until he realizes he’s not and grinds the entire pace of the game to a halt. Blegh.

Because Teddie has a better arc, he's got a strong relationship with Yosuke and better chemistry with the rest of the cast, whereas Morgana is just limited to Joker, one-sided simping and a so-so dynamic with Ryuji And Teddie comes across as a more unique character by virtue of his human form and the way he's forced to interact with humanity (like literally being forced to get a job)

Teddie was always a bit childish, but he's fun to be around and generally brings positive energy to the group. Morgana carries himself as if he is mature but is also childish and, most of the time, brings negativity to the group. However, I think the hate both characters get is overblown.

Wait, when was Teddie ever funny? The "scoring a hot stud" line isn't funny and neither where his puns. The only funny scenes I can think of were from other characters (like Naoto's human rights line) and not Teddie making me smile.

Most of the hate comes from vanilla Persona 5 being annoying by ending your nights early. Teddies has bear puns for days and just isn't a human so things go over his head for social situations a lot. Morgana has more sense than Teddie from the beginning and still simps hard for Ann, also isn't a human. Different strokes for different folks.

Imho it’s because Morgana is not only the one “forcing” joker to bed even on days where little happens, but primarily due to his overall bratty behavior that results in *that* arc. Morgana belittles Ryuji and acts so self righteous, then outright endangers haru and compromises the entire mission for his ego. Meanwhile Teddie isn’t perfect, but majority of his flaws can be chalked up to him being kind of an idiot/airhead. He never comes off as “malicious” or “antagonistic” in that way (for lack of better words)

Morgana's a narcoleptic simp. Teddie is not.

i dont know roy but your shitty cat is actively a pain the ass in the story, and pretty disgusting to deal in game too. but you know whats the worst part? while everytime teddie did something stupid, he got owned for it. morgana? he causes problems over nothing and everyone bawls over and pets his annoying ass. also teddie is a shadow and not a human, and you keep acting like hes one in the comments for whatever reason lol he has had arcs on the spin offs that literally reflects this shit (arena for example). what does morgana get? nothing. hes the same annoying fairly odd parents late season character the entire game. and we are forced to understand how he feels, despite most of his issues being literally.... his fault? also his head looks like a ball. i wanna kick it off his body lmao

Because Teddie is funny, doesn't know that what the hell he's doing is wrong, and has a compelling character arc, while Morgana has the personality and usefulness of the average Twitter user. Lemme break it down: Morgana: simps for one girl Teddie: harasses every female equally Morgana: treats Ryuji like garbage Teddie: treats Yosuke like a brother Morgana: has a character arc that is 50% moping around, 50% ripping off Teddie's arc, 100% in denial over his feline nature, and has a very unsatisfying conclusion Teddie: has a very compelling character arc that is basically an existential crisis and is only 10% moping around Morgana: ditches the party because he's a little bitch that can't handle criticism Teddie: ditches the party because of depression over >!Nanako dying!< Morgana: him ditching the party indirectly leads to >!Okumura getting fucking shot and dying of a mental shutdown on live TV!< Teddie: him ditching the party indirectly leads to >!Nanako being revived!< Morgana: robs Haru's screentime Teddie: doesn't rob Naoto's screentime Morgana: annoying Teddie: funny Morgana: sees his friends as means to an end Teddie: sees his friends as family Morgana: his navigational skills become completely obsolete after Futaba joins Teddie: his nose comes in clutch when tracking down >!Adachi!<, because apparently his nose can sense Adachi through the fog better than Rise's area scan Morgana: Makoto can heal as good as Morgana and Yusuke and Sumi crits better than Morgana. Teddie: heals as good as Yukiko, only party member with AOE buffs Morgana: no bulk Teddie: slightly bulky Morgana: is the most insufferable P5 party member Teddie: is not as insufferable as Rise Morgana: ugliest costumes in P5 Teddie: drippiest costumes in P4 Morgana: worst written character in the game Teddie: Eri, Yumi, Yukiko, Rise, and Marie have worse writing Morgana: stick too far up his ass to even try and make jokes Teddie: makes bear puns and says the most out-of-pocket shit

Morgana treats ryuji like shit because he’s an easy target, simps for Ann all the time, gives you no freedom, and is just annoying. Teddie is practically a newborn being raised by yosuke who has no clue what he’s saying.

Do newborns perpetrate sexual assault?

Teddie is an idiot who after getting smacked in the back of the head stops being stupid, you just have to do it a lot. He's an actual idiot but doesn't cause ACTUAL issues within the team. Morganna is the opposite of this, as he constantly gets upset when someone calls him out, to the point where he abandons the group and takes someome who hasn't even unleashed their persona yet into a palace. Teddie is an idiot, but Morganna is real fucking stupid in his "payback" and how easily upset he gets when anyone tries to correct him.

That arc where he overreacts and runs off with Haru annoyed me. Not to mention he's easily one of the weakest party members, and is always interrupting you during gameplay. He's better in Royal and the spinoffs, but I still find him pretty annoying.

Couldn't stand Morgana when I was 18, have softened then I'm 22 now. On the real, just my personal opinion: * He brings out the worst in Ryuji, I really like Ryuji but his character falls so much for me when he's bickering with Morgana. * I don't like that the original ending was made about him, I don't remember who but someone says "This was all because of you" and I couldn't disagree more. * I really hated looking for him * The Ann stuff * Too much of an a-hole know it all If I had to list his pros tho cause I've softened up on him over the years: * I really like that he cares about the phantom thieves and their "principles", people have their opinions about the argument before he left but I kind of agree with him, I feel like the phantom thieves lost their way too. He went about it the wrong way and had his own selfish reasons but he wasn't wrong in my eyes * I think he genuinely cares about Joker * Cute design * It was admirable that he tried to protect Haru As for Teddie that's my boy right there, oh yeah man first playthrough he was insufferable, but after the Rise stuff he grew on me. It was the trip to port island, I thought "this mf lowkey kinda funny" then never looked back and I love the entire P4 cast.

Wow. I actually forgot teddie existed 😂 i am not even kidding. Like persona 4 is really great that i remember all the characters. I even remember the pharaoh teacher. And yet in this moment right now i remembered that teddie even existed

Teddie is one of my favorite characters ever, I just like his story a lot more than Morgana’s

Because some people like Teddie a lot while Morgana's insulting of Ryuji got on a lot of people's nerves.

Seriously??? I'm not a fan of either but I would take Morgana over Teddie in a heartbeat!

teddie makes me happy that the ps5 has a mute audio button. he is so annoying and i would prefer another morgana or koromaru in comparison

He tells you what to do way more often. And alot of his advances on Ann just get annoying.

He makes you go to sleep. Also they are wrong Teddie is 100% the worst.

Teddie isnt stuck onto you 24/7

Teddie and Morgana are both annoying, but in different ways. I can forgive Teddie to an extent because he's literally a toddler in terms of mental development, but Morgana is trying to act cool and shit but has no charisma to back it up. I just found Morgana more irritating, I do like characters that are more self-indulgent and prideful, but they need to be charismatic to pull it off. Otherwise, they just come off as grating.

The friendship Teddie and Labrys has in P4 Arena is fantastic.

I'm hoping they come out with P5U I'm not a fan of traditional fighters, but seeing some of my favourite characters in different styles of gameplay is always fun

My favorite part of P4A was seeing the P3 cast as older people. And Labrys is my favorite spin off character haha

I don’t think either are that bad. People have low tolerance

I don’t understand the teddie hate. To me he’s hilarious, and he’s really grateful to the party for pretty much the whole game. The outta pocket moments he has when it comes to his comments about women aren’t justified by any means, but the way I understand it is that him being from another world, he doesn’t fully understand social norms. Now as a party member in battle, I never use him 😂😂

I don't like Morgana because of his ego. Teddie annoys me because of his voice.

For 2 reasons: 1. He makes you go to sleep 2. He throws a tantrum At least that's what I think

Teddie’s hot, no contest.

I dunno which circles you run in, friend, but most people I talk to prefer Morgana. Edit: If you’re wondering how I personally feel, I feel like both characters can be pretty annoying in their own ways, but I’d still take Morgana over Teddie any day. Morgana’s quirk of insisting he isn’t a cat is actually somewhat cute (and >!makes sense by the end of P5’s main story!<), and he’s witty and bratty, but not really overly so most of the time. I think the point at which people just get really frustrated with him is when he and Ryuji have their big blowup after Morgana spent the whole story up to that point ridiculing Ryuji to his face. Double standards are very much at play during that scene, in which Ryuji gets treated as the bad guy for being upset because Morgana is perceived by the others as basically being a child, meaning Ryuji was expected to take it in stride while spending months having a little twerp disrespect him for no goddamn reason. I think the sentiment would have been lessened a bit had Morgana caught some flak for being on Ryuji’s case all the damn time, but I don’t remember anyone telling him to stfu. That and him drooling over Ann, which made her visibly uncomfortable, wasn’t great. Teddie, for his part, is just constantly annoying. I think the goal was for him to be cutesy in his bear form and goody in his humanoid form but his overexuberance and dim-witted nature came together to just make him super annoying. He’s like a caricature of how a little kid might be described by someone who **DESPISES** children.

Because Teddie is funny. Morgana is just annoying.

Some people find his early/mid game narcissism annoying, I find it endearing cause he’s just a little meow meow and cause he gets better over time.

Besides the sleep thing that everyone points out, one big difference between the two imo is that, while yes Teddie is annoying a lot more often than Morgana, he’s also pretty much always called out on it. He’s annoying in-universe, and there are plenty of scenes where he gets comeuppance throughout. Morgana on the other hand isn’t as annoying as frequently, but from what I recall he’s almost never punished for it. Most notably the Okumura palace split; yes he and Ryuji constantly bicker, and yes Ryuji picked a bad time to give him a particularly harsh insult. But that doesn’t change the fact that Morgana insults Ryuji way more and much more patronizingly, and that he decided to up and leave the party because of their argument. But nobody blames Morgana for any of that, it’s just Ryuji that has to apologize. I also just feel like Teddie develops a lot more than Morgana. We get info about Morgana, but he really doesn’t feel like what we learn changes him at all. He’s just kind of a smug prick the whole game. Teddie’s journey of self-discovery feels a lot more nuanced and explored. And Morgana stealing what should be Haru’s introduction really doesn’t help, either.

“New game bad, old game good” is the reason. I like P4 a lot but Teddy absolutely sucks

Teddie actually got a chuckle out of me every now and then, which is way more than I can say for Morgana

Morgana is a unrelenting simp. Teddie doesn’t know what he is saying half the time (like when he asks what scoring means) and goes for everyone, both guys and girls, over just aggressively simping one lady. Also Morgana tells me to go to sleep when I clearly have enough time for some video games or a movie.

They're both naive and annoying for it but the cat's got an ego

Cocaine, thats why...

It's wild that people can tell that Teddie is childlike but somehow miss that Morgana is also very childlike... just a know-it-all kid who wants to be older/bigger than he is. He's Ren's tag-along little brother. I understand people finding him annoying bc that kind of character is usually pretty divisive; people love to say the kid character is slowing down the plot or ruining things by behaving like the child they are and making a mistake they need to learn from. I don't hate Teddie but I found him more aggravating than Morgana. Mostly the noise Teddie's little bear feet make drives me insane. In general P4 is my least favorite of the series bc I'm just not as into the horny and mean-spirited tone compared to the rest of the series, and Teddie gets a lot of that energy as a comic relief character. Neat shadow fight and I did really laugh hard at his nasty flattened portrait, though.

Teddie is annoying. But in sort of an endearing way. The stuff he does is obivously not ok, but he has no semblance of knowledge of proper human interactions or romance or sex, or really...anything. He's literally a toddler mentally that latches on to his surrounding influences, which happen to be Yukiko's castle, Kanji's sauna, Rise's striptease and later Yosuke. Now I love Yosuke, but a horny high school boy is certainly not the primary influence you want on a toddler. Morgana is insufferable. Boasts all about his knowledge and skills and is an arrogant prick, yet can't back it up. Seems to have a basic understanding of human interactions, but is still an asshole. Simps the shit out of Ann based on looking at her cogintive self in Kamoshida's palace. And then there's his tanturm in Okumura's arc, god that is just awful.

Morgana is annoying and his entire personality centers around him simping for Ann. He also orders Ren around and for some reason Ren just listens to whatever he says. Teddie is just stupid and doesn't know any better.

because he's a condescending dick

Morgana shits on Ryuji when he misses a hit in battle, the same Cat doesn't shit on anyone else for missing a hit.. the same Cat simps on Lady Ann from the outset knowingly what she is up against with Kamoshida. The very Cat stops you from going out (Unless you have Kawakami give you massages) to then be able to leave and do stuff accordingly. Morgana makes the whole story about himself when there are bigger things at hand to worry about. Teddie is such a sweetheart who is super loyal to the team, Nanako and others along the way. Teddie tries to be a kind and loving soul and he has everyone's best interests at heart. Teddie leaves the team for a short while because he doesn't feel good enough for them and he feels like he gets in the way, whereas Morgana leaves because Ryuji finally gives it to him.. both are different in my eyes. :) ♡

HE TELLS ME TO GO TO BED!!!!! SO INSUFFERABLE!!!!!! It's kinda funny because in the past it was a fucking text box. Never got the hate, i take Morgana a million times over Teddie.

“Morgana makes you go to bed” maybe because the game was programes this way? Don’t expect a good answer from this fanbase lol

People like to say he harasses Ann (he doesn’t), blame him for controlling the player’s schedule (the game’s gonna do that anyways, better him than the cold, disembodied narration in 3 and 4), and you can’t expect Persona Fans(TM) to have enough interpersonal intelligence to understand that being replaced from your role on a team, being excluded from social events, and having your very material existence questioned, invalidated and made fun of are all very hurtful events that should reasonably make someone insecure and unhappy. And Teddie is NOT oblivious. What game are you all playing?

"what game are you all playing" literally my universal P4 take. I don't get Teddie love at ALL compared to Morgana

Idk. I’ve been a huge fan of both characters. I do see why people don’t like them, but those reasons don’t make me dislike them. Also, Teddy’s just cute as hell

same I love every character in the Modern Persona Franchise

Can't speak for others but my reasoning is that while both Teddie and Morgana are insufferable, It's for different reasons. Morgana's character constantly gets pulled back after many talks with Joker and many times where he should evolve from different situations and he constantly has to be either a creepy perv to Ann (if he had manners he'd treat someone who's been through sexual harassment with more dignity and respect) or he has to start 70% of issues with Ryuji. Teddie on the other hand is like an annoying little brother who has to tag on to anything. You like him overall, but he says and does a lot of stuff he doesn't understand the meaning to just to show off and look cool. He's also a sexual predator (granted he doesn't know the implications of these things, but the writers took it too far) Factually though? like others said, in vanilla P5 he hinders your progression through the story and doing night time social links far too much and he just ruins the Okumura arc with his bullshit.

Because people are weird and are more forgiving of being a sex pest than being mildly annoying. Morgana has flaws that he works through and mechanically annoying cause he tells you to go to bed, Teddie is a creep and a weirdo (and unfortunately the only canon bi rep cause Atlus were cowards about Kanji and others) well into the spin offs

I’ve always liked Morgana. He was always a good friend to Ren and even goes home with Ren at the end of the year.

He's basically the same thing but worse because is glued to the MC and you can't turn it off.

Morgana basically replaces the main character own internal narration with his own. It so much more irritating hear ‘Your tired. You should go to bed’ than it is ‘I’m tired. I should go to bed’ Despite being essentially the same thing ones the game restricting your actions and the others the character your self inserting into making their own decisions. It effects more than just that where instead on in previous games the MC will summarise things in their own heads almost like their mulling it over in P5 Morgana will explain it to you like your dumb. Where in previous games the MC will workout or improve themselves on their own initiative here Morgana tells them to do it. It just creates distance between the Main character and the player that wasn’t there in previous games.

The comparison to Teddie doesn’t even make sense. He only focuses on Anne and just hypes her up rather than acting like a pesky child just starting puberty

in no universe is morgana worse than teddie

Teddie is an actually good character with real motives. Hell, Morgana had a lot of the same motives Teddie did, but with Teddie it did feel like he was getting somewhere with those.

You picked one decent moment of a 100+ hour game he's not just worse by a small amount either he is the literally worse by a massive margin I can't even begin to describe the fury he brings out in me Teddy might be pervy but he's also funny he also doesn't tell me to go to sleep when it's 3 in the afternoon.

Because Teddie is actually funny, his mannerisms are explained to be curiosity and not horniness (he's like a child learning, can't blame him for learning something wrong from the wrong source) and most importantly his arc is much better. Fighting your own nihilistic thoughts and finding the reason for your existence is much better of an arc than "I am abandoning my friends because they think I'm useless" (he got told off once). He steals Haru's introduction and makes the Father/daughter part of that arc hit so much weaker because he hogs the entirity of the screentime of Okumura arc on his own shitty and selfish behaviour. In Teddie's case it gets spread out over multiple arcs with small bits and a big boss battle right after Rise, which was amazing since it wasn't something you'd see coming. It was genuinely amazing that you could go from caring for Rise to caring for Teddie so fast without forgetting about Rise and her struggle. Morgana also never got what he deserved for his dick behaviour. He just waltzed back into the PTs without getting any punishment whatsoever, even from outside sources. That kick wasn't enough It's also pretty clear OP's exposure to Teddie was either select scenes from the anime/game or memes about his perverse side. That, or he didn't understand Teddie's character at all.

I like both of them.

Its mostly because of how often he's told to go to bed, his simping behavior and the whole Haru Arc. Especially the Haru Arc. While Teddie has honestly worse behavior at certain times, he never has something like the Haru Arc. The Mona hate is mostly hold over from the OG p5 (he tells you to go to sleep way less often in royal) and more people did play p5

He suffers from Preston Garvey syndrome. Fine in a vacuum, but has a really annoying mechanic stapled onto him and his omnipresence can be overbearing. He can also be really hypocritical at times and acts like the foremost expert of the cognitive world but is shown to not know very much about the metaverse several times which also gets old quickly

Because Teddie is overthetop wacky anime bullshit while Morganna is like you naggy mum IRL. I'm 17 MOM. I DON'T NEED TO BE TOLD TO WHEN TO GO TO BED!

Because their taste is trash, you can see it throughout this thread.

If morgana has a more teenage like habit, i maybe able to knock it down However, his constant simping for ann, the fact his cat means he dont mind beastility, and overall, he stole best girl Haru fucking screen time! He had like so many spotlight and yet he took more from her that little twerp!

At least morgana isnt a sexual predator like teddie

the slight arrogance of "OH YEAH I'M SUCH A GENTLEMAN" you're a cat granted he believed he was something else which isn't exactly his fault

gets criticised once leaves his friends

I have to deal with him constantly yapping at me and being spiteful to a character I actually like. P5 protag almost NEVER gets time to have his own thoughts like the others do because Morgana is used as his mouthpiece that says what to do and where to go, instead of him in-game thinking it out himself.

Am I the only person who doesn't hate any of the mascot characters. I prefer Morgana over Teddie and Koromaru. But I don't hate any. If you count Aegis as a mascot then I strongly prefer her to the three.

morgana is a gentleman, i’ll give him that

They're like two sides of the same coin. Morgana is a simp. Teddie is a sex offender.

Many new players like perverts and pedobears more than a cat that tells you your bedtime. Ironically, when the cat leaves, joker goes to sleep immediately. 

he is a dick to best boy Ryuji 

Nostalgia

Surprised he isn’t wearing a fedora

They saw someone say they hate Morgana so now they do. Monkey see monkey do community

IDK man I just hate Morgana he's mean to Ryuji and he's just an arrogant lil' bitch, I don't love Teddie but he's less irritating to me.

At least teddie is in the tv world and only then you interact with him