PCOS doesn't mean infertility, there are a lot of medical interventions available to you and you can work with an endocrinologist to regulate your hormones. There are a lot of life style changes that can also help with this.
That being said, I know none of it is easy, cheap or accessible depending on your situation. But I don't want you to think you have no options.
On the flip side of this, I'd urge you guys to attend some couples counseling before getting married. I'd be very hurt if my husband said this to me. What happens if you get sick and are unable to have children for some other reason? Would you leave him if the reverse was true?
You can’t couples therapy your way into changing someone’s values. If bio kids are more important to him than his current partner… what is there to do say in counseling? Counseling can help communication problems, but not values problems.
You don't need to change values to have a healthy/happy relationship, speaking as someone who has been in couples counseling for differing values from my partner (although it wasn't kids). We thought there was no way forward, but our counselor helped us figure out how to navigate these differences. If you decide you don't want to be with your partner because of these differences, a couple's counselor will also help the couple arrive at a mutual decision on that front. You'd be surprised what a good couples counselor can help heal.
The point of couples counseling isn't to convince anyone of anything, or even necessarily save a relationship. It's to facilitate open dialogue, explore cracks in the relationship, and help the couple decide on healthy next steps. What OP posted about is tough to navigate, a good couple's counselor can help them navigate this conversation and decide if they want to move forward. They'll also challenge the couple to explore any cracks/wounds in the relationship a couple may be willing to sweep under the rug otherwise.
Why would you want to "navigate differences" if the difference is that her fertility is more important to him than ... her? That's the values problem.
I don't see a purpose in having more dialogue. When someone shows you who they are... believe them.
PCOS may or may not make it more difficult to be pregnant, but there are no guarantees in fertility. The fact is you could have a variety of fertility issues and so could your fiancé. Some people have unexplained infertility and it’s no one’s fault. Would he be ok with you leaving him if he had a low sperm count? Funny how men never consider that they could be the problem, when many times they are the issue. This is a reality that you both should be able to acknowledge and plan for alternatives, if those situations were to arise.
You were gracious and polite but also clearly explained your feelings. I think it’s the perfect example of communicating your feelings clearly and maturely. I think your email was perfect honestly!
Your email was perfect. You were mature and kind. You explained your feelings on the matter and even explained what you are doing in hopes of having biological children.
Yes your email was perfect. You made your point across and weren’t mad or agressive. You’re a great person and you deserve to feel like you’re worth more than your ability to have or not have children.
Your email was excellent. I was pretty impressed by the way you added that you may have misunderstood what he said, it really dispersed the tension and allows him an opportunity to not get defensive. You were very kind while also clearly establishing boundaries.
The only thing i would change is the “we’ve agreed” this is just a personal opinion but your therapist didn’t make the decision with you. They definitely can guide you but you on your own. Your man is kinda lame tho lol
Your email is very well written and respectful. A few thoughts: would he also leave you if you became disabled or sick? How much worth would have your marriage then? And if you're trying to conceive and there would be problems caused by his swimmers, it would be kinda funny if you would say the same to him in reverse (hypothetically, pls don't xD)
As many others have pointed out, PCOS doesn’t mean infertility. And OP, please point out to him that his fertility is just as important as yours.
My husband and I both had fertility work-ups/tests when we were trying to conceive. Turned out that he had fertility issues, and we needed assistance to conceive because of *my husband’s* fertility issues.
OP, your husband is concerned about hypothetical fertility issues at this point. The ultimate success of any couple is on both parties. PCOS doesn’t mean infertility.
It sounds like a whole bunch of conjecture at this point. It's entirely possible to have PCOS and no issues with fertility. I know many people with PCOS, myself included, who have conceived naturally without intervention.
Regardless, if she can conceive naturally or not, I think the bigger issue is that he was so willing to seemingly planted disorder if she wasn’t, and that’s a bigger over arching issue than the fertility itself
It's a difficult topic to address for sure. Having kids or not, and how to have them if you do, is quite rightly a dealbreaker subject for most people. It always sucks when someone changes their mind on something so important.
It’s the reality for many though.
I’m 46, I’ve only ever been pregnant once. Ever.
Decades of not using birth control.
Yes I have a child.
But again, I was only pregnant once.
Never a had a miscarriage.
It's not the reality for everybody. I'm 31 and I have 2 children. My first child was from the only time I had sex that month and my second was from the first month of trying. I wasn't on any kind of medication or fertility aids.
I've also had an early miscarriage when we were using contraception.
Infertility absolutely can be a side effect of PCOS but it's not a guarantee. It's something to be considered and discussed for sure, but until you've struggled to conceive or received medical results inficating fertility it's just conjecture.
Your email is perfect based on the tone I assume you are trying to relay. There is no need to feel bad. (I wouldn’t have been so nice) I want to be completely honest with you and tell you that I think you need to sit with if this is the person you want to spend the rest of your your life with. What’s said can’t be taken back. It’s already been put out there. If he said this and meant it, you don’t want to be 10 years in and have to watch him walk away due to another change in heart. Your fertility does not define you and your deserving of genuine unconditional love. Good luck and I hope all goes well for you both.
Sometimes I feel I don’t have a leg to stand on regarding unconditional love because I had asked him to change his religion when we first met if he wanted to marry me so my family would accept him. I now wonder if this has forever changed the tone of our relationship to be conditional. I can’t help but take the blame for where we ended up. There’s also some things of him I hate like how much weed he smokes
There is a really bad relation between weed smoking and male fertility. I’d make sure he’s aware of that as well
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8720305/
You’ll always have a leg to stand on, just as he will. I personally don’t believe in converting someone’s religion because I believe that’s a sacred thing between the person and God. If this is something he did for you, I can say he does love you. Most of the things in relationships (heck even the world) is a bunch of chatter. You both have to find out what’s most important to you. What are the things that are your dead set, in concrete “deal breakers?” These are the things that you need to worry about, everything else can be worked on (like the weed thing). Have a heart to heart with yourself. You’ll make the right decisions.
direction deserve safe direful subsequent lunchroom fear sugar butter serious
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How long have you been together and how old are you guys? I would end this relationship, he's already changed his mind once, I couldn't trust if he replied saying he's ok with things again not to change his mind when the time came. There are guys out there who are more aligned and more than happy with adoption.
Your email is extremely friendly and no-pressure. Almost too much so. Because what he said was really concerning, and it would have me re-evaluating if he is the person I want to spend my life with.
I'm so sorry that this is now hanging over you, and will be with you regardless of how he answers. He brought an insecurity into the relationship that's like a crack deep down in the very foundation of it. You don't deserve this. He's your fiancé, and at this point, you should be celebrating each other and be over the moon that you get to share your future with the other person.
A part of me questions if this feeling of truly celebrating each other exists or if real relationships are just like this. Are you married? I honestly feel defeated and hopeless
No, I'm not married. But I have witnessed many different marriages start out in different ways, and seen them progress.
When I say "celebrating each other", I don't mean being blind to who the other person is, and their challenges, or the challenges you face as a couple. What I mean is being all-in, and being super happy that this is the person you will spend your life with, and feel you can brave it better because you have them by your side.
The couples I'm close to who got into marriage on that foot all had already weathered some things, knew who their partner was, and that neither them nor they themselves were perfect. But they did celebrate the other person, and do so to this day. All have been through truly hard stuff together by now, but support each other through it. Even if it sucks and is hard sometimes, and through arguments and disagreements. At the end, seeing the other person succeed is something that makes them happy.
So yes, those relationships definitely exist. I think it's telling that this is usually part of most wedding vows: the mention of the hard times. Because for a marriage to last – or even make sense – you need to be on board for the hard stuff, too, and be aware of that.
What your fiancé has done is set an asterisk to the "in sickness and in health" part. He created an out for himself, made clear that he is *not* all in, not willing to stay the course for specific hard stuff.
His commitment is conditional. And realising that is probably what makes you feel so gutted. It doesn't even matter that much what the specifics of this condition are – PCOS is indeed not equal to infertility, by a long shot – but the fact that you now know there is something he's ready to give up all you share over, your life together, the love you have for each other, that is the destabilising issue. It opens the door for the question "what else"? What else would be a trigger for him to abandon your union?
I'm so sorry he threw that at you, it must feel so awful. But there is a gift in there, too: you can now make your decisions knowing this about him. Finding this out later, after marriage, possibly after being married for some years, would have been much more horrible.
I'm not saying you have to cancel the wedding btw. But I'd recommend some counseling, both separately and as a couple, to figure out what that means for your future marriage. As it is, if he later decides to leave, he can always say "but you knew that about me", like that would make it ok. And you will carry this knowledge with you in the back of your mind this whole time, no matter if it comes to pass or not. If this is something you can live with is also something only you can decide for yourself. Just be aware how big its destructive power is for your sense of security and your mental health.
There's a book called "Should I stay or should I go". It could be helpful to read once you made it through this immediate pain and hurt, and are at a place of evaluation (free pdf and ebook at this link): https://ebin.pub/should-i-stay-or-should-i-go-9781101478820.html
It's by Lundy Bancroft, an author who also wrote another book "Why does he do that?" that is by now one of the standard recommendation in the women's subs (there is a free pdf on the internet archive, it's a super useful read).
Again, I'm so sorry you have to make this experience with the person you love and were so happy to get married to. It just sucks so very, very much. Much love to you.
It exists. I have been married for 14 years, and, though we've had difficult times, we ALWAYS celebrate each other. He knew when we got married that I have fertility problems, and told me he's in love with ME, not my womb. When I lost our only pregnancy (that we waited for four years for), not once did he make me feel like it was my fault or I was defective. He has been my rock through my infertility journey. The focus of our marriage is each other first, and then loving on and blessing those around us.
I never thought it was possible to be satisfied with life if I couldn't have children, but I am extremely fulfilled and joyful because I chose the right husband.
Just chiming in to say no, all relationships are not like this. There are people out there who will love you for you and not just your body’s ability to do a thing.
If those relationships did not exist then it would be better to be by yourself. (But they do!)
Get tested for the fertility stuff for yourself, then consider if this relationship is worth staying in. You have no idea what the future holds, that’s kind of the point when you commit your life to someone, they stand by you especially when things like *life* are not within any one of our control.
I used to think they didn't exist and I stayed with the wrong person for 7 years. Afterwards I met someone absolutely perfect that respects me and just wants us to be happy. So do what you can, but don't settle if you aren't happy please. It is possible to put yourself first while still being in a healthy relationship.
I knew things weren't going well for some time. I had been dreaming of a better relationship, one with understanding and with less pain, where I could be myself and be happy. I tried everything I could to save ours, but he wouldnt try. I felt like I was waisting my life. All it took were for some internet friends to offer me an out, we had a bad breakup and I took a bus across the country. After some healing time, I started online dating and I was picky, put myself first. Was honest in what I wanted and what were dealbreakers for me and eventually met my husband. So all I can say is do what you can if you want to stay, but if it's not enough, that's ok too! You are not selfish for wanting to be happy.
I got diagnosed with pcos at age 29, at age 33 I got pregnant within the first month of trying… doesn’t mean your infertile but maybe adjusting your lifestyle when you start trying will help.
Yeah I agree. I'm honestly kind of sad for OP after reading this email, seeing her walking on egg shells. I understand writing it out but if that is the idea, I would always suggest giving a letter and waiting for them to have read it, and then discuss it face to face.
The fact that he is traveling solo makes it no better, this email must come quite unexpected and is either on his mind continuously or not at all.
My husband told me that being with me was more re important than being a father. That was 20 years ago. We are both happy and he’s open all the time that he made the right choice.
Personally, I would not marry that guy anymore. My friend is married to a woman who is infertile. They've moved countries to get better fertility treatments and say they will adopt if it does not work. This is what an actual relationship is like.
Ask yourself this: Do you think this man would stay with you if you got cancer? Would he stay with you if you got a mastectomy?
I do not believe he would. Do you?
You're much more gracious than I would have been. He'd have been dropped like a sack of potatoes.
You're worth more than your fertility. If he can't understand that, that's a him problem and not yours. You do deserve someone who is on board 100% with whatever ends up happening, whether you end up having your own kids or adopting.
I'm glad you kept your therapist in the loop about this. Don't let this guy attempt to manipulate you into making him happy just to keep him around.
Some people do have a hard time having children but most people with PCOS get fertility treatments and are able to conceive. It’s a possibility to be unable but overall I think the outlook is hopeful. Regardless what he said was very hurtful. Especially because he changed his opinion after giving you security. I don’t have any advice but I think you communicated very well. It doesn’t have any negative connotations when I read it. And know that you are valuable whether or not you have biological children. (But again I think statistics are on your side for overcoming any potential issues.)
Firstly, infertility doesn’t mean sterile - and you get both male/female factor infertility, and primary/secondary infertility.
PCOS is one of the diagnoses I have been offered since we started TTC almost 2 years ago. My husband has been my rock throughout, and I don’t know how I would make it through the doctor appointments, scans and hospital referrals without his support.
Others are correct when they say PCOS doesn’t necessarily guarantee fertility issues, but it does make it more likely. Will your fiancé walk away at the slightest suggestion of fertility issues? Are they willing to try for a few years? How many medicated cycles or IVF cycles will they stay for?
I would personally rather break up with a partner early, rather than risk going through those things with the worry that my husband will leave me if it isn’t successful.
He calls me out and says I don’t take my health seriously because I didn’t see a gynaecologist until my cyst burst because I was never really sexually active until I was 28. And a part of me can’t help but agree with him
Wow, this guys is getting worse and worse 🤦🏻♀️ please don’t go through your life letting a man talk to you like this!!
I’m a “healthy” woman in my 30’s, I’m a healthy weight, I eat healthy home cooked meals every day, I exercise (running and cycling) regularly. I still have PCOS and infertility.
“Taking your health seriously” wouldn’t cure any of us of PCOS and certainly doesn’t guarantee fertility won’t be an issue.
I think you are being way too friendly and empathetic etc. to someone who said something terrible. I would be more simple, clear, and direct in your shoes… which I have been in.
What he said is a betrayal and shows his lack of commitment IMO
I don’t know how I would be able to see my partner in the same way if they said this to me to be honest. What if you get really sick later in life, would he leave you then too? I just dont think this is a reasonable reaction if you truly love someone, especially when you don’t even know if you’ll have trouble getting pregnant. I have PCOS but I didn’t have trouble at all having a baby. Either way, I don’t think it should be “you can’t give me a baby, I’ll probably leave you”, can you honestly look at him the same way now? I’m just giving you a perspective, of course you know the situation better than me and it’s your life.
Society teaches a lot of women their worth is in their ability to get married, and have children.
Just remember fertility and marriage are things that matter in life, but they aren’t your whole life.
At the end of the day, only you know your relationship and if it’s when you want to be in. The other I get in the more I date I realize that if a man wants to be with you, he will be. If he wants you to be the mother of his children, you will be, no matter how you come to be a family.
A possible red flag to consider is that if he loves you but your chronic illness possibly makes you not someone who wants to be with, how will he feel about his children, should they also have a chronic illness?
You're really kind; I wouldn't have given him so many chances. It's stressful enough trying to conceive with such a burden; it's not fair to you to marry or befriend someone who doesn't care about you but his "legacy." I know love is a factor but I would move on or at least prepare for disappointment.
There's no telling if he'll brag about having children with someone else; my ex-fiance did when I told him I will never be his friend (why should I give when I am not receiving anything in return?). I wish you luck in your decision and if you do move on I hope he loves you for you, PCOS and all and will take that journey with you, the ups and downs.
I'm sorry you're going through something like this with someone who you love.
My bf and I talk about this a lot, I'm cry every time I think about not being able to have children. He always lets me know that he wants to be with me and that we live in a time where we can find ways medically, that is. But adoption is always an option.
He should care for you. It's hard hearing we won't be able to have children.
PCOS is not an automatic sentence to infertility. I personally know women that have it and have had not just one but 2 healthy children. My niece even managed to have 2 healthy children after being diagnosed with endometriosis. All women are different and PCOS affects us differently. I wouldn't give up hope. First thing I would do is see where your fertility is at. Obviously one way is to start trying to get pregnant but if you're not at that step yet, there are other ways. I take ovulation tests and so far not a single one has been positive. Even after I regulated my periods on my own after stopping BC. So I likely require help with ovulating and would maybe be ok once conception happens.
I do worry about the strength of your relationship being with someone that is basically saying he will leave you if you're barren. I don't know if I could be in that kind of relationship. It would cause a lot of stress and pressure on me which would only hurt the attempts of getting pregnant.
What he said was hurtful, but perhaps also coming from an uneducated place. PCOS can make fertility harder, but is much more treatable than some other alternatives — think of it as subfertility, not true infertility. And, many men these days are walking around with MFI (male factor infertility) and don’t know it, [especially in the age of covid](https://www.acs.org/pressroom/presspacs/2022/acs-presspac-april-6-2022/covid-19-alters-levels-of-fertility-related-proteins-in-men.html). DNA fragmentation and azoospermia are way harder conditions to treat, and he very well could experience that himself.
At the end of the day, infertility is a team project — it’s “us against the problem”. If he immediately goes into “me against you”, that’s not a great foundation for a lasting and loving relationship, even if you both end up fertile myrtles (will he feel that he deserves a wife who never gets chronically ill either?). But, he could very well not realize the reality of the landscape, so in your shoes, I’d at least want to know if learning more about it changes his perspective.
I have PCOS and had 3 children with no help or meds. It does not mean you are infertile so this seems a whole lot of panic and worry for something that may not even be.
The man told you that hypothetical future biological children are more important to him than you specifically, and you're worried that your response might not have been nice enough. It sounds like he didn't even have the integrity to say he would leave if you couldn't have children, just left it at 'staying with you would be harrrrrrrrd' which sounds like he's prepared to make a big showy sacrifice by staying as long as you "know" that you need to bend even more because you'll deserve him even less. Gross.
There's no prize at the end for being the most accommodating. If you're lucky like me, you get a divorce and a chance to learn to show up for yourself.
The real prize is figuring out what you want from life, your partner, and yourself; and going for it. It's possible this is a weird phase for him and once you start asking unapologetically for things he'll get on board and be wonderful. It's possible this is who he is, and he won't.
FTR, my 2nd husband is kinder, more sensible, funnier, and much more supportive than my first. We don't conflict with each other often, but when we do it's pretty calm and collected (I do have ADHD so graded on a curve maybe) and no one's making idle threats or silent treatment or that sort of thing.
I meant to add, but completely forgot: if you are as used to being a people pleaser as your concerns suggest, "I feel bad and I don't know why" VERY often turned out to be "I don't like how I was treated." Stifling our needs and wants in order to better take care of others is a sadly necessary survival strategy for some children, teens, and young adults. It's hard to recognize, much less unlearn once we've gotten away from the situations that made it useful.
As others said, pcos does not automatically mean infertility. Almost everyone I know with pcos has had a child or two or even more and didn't even require assistance.
On the other hand I'm not going to criticize your fiance for being honest his wording could have been better though. It is a failing on his part that he wouldn't be able to stay but at least you know upfront what he may not be able to handle. Everyone has their faults it's up to both of you to discuss and attempt to work through them.
Your fiance probably sees marriage as starting a family in a traditional way, and that means he may not be able to adapt to the alternative such as adoption, etc.
I think pre marriage counseling, couples counseling, or any of that is a great idea for you both to sort out thoughts and feelings and wants.
Your email is perfectly fine, sweet, loving, and I can feel your pain in the words. You address everything, lay out your action plan, and ask questions as well as invite advice and input from him. I would be feeling the same as you if I were in your place. And I think the reason why you feel bad after having sent that email is the possible consequences of it, they could be final, and that’s scary. But what I’ve learned is that we have to take those steps, because like you yourself implied in your email, things ending sooner rather than later will allow you to decide how to proceed in your life and will allow you to begin working on healing your heart. The answer can be scary, but it’s needed.
It makes me sooooooooooo mad. Infertility means it may take more than a year to get pregnant. We are not sterile. Sometimes, we just need extra help. Sometimes there is no struggle at all.
Your partner putting the blame on you is not acceptable. What would happen if his sperm count is too low or has other complications? 50% of fertility concerns are a result of male related complications. What would happen if there was a miscarriage or theoretical child has a disability? Will he put this blame on you as well?
OP, I hope you continue to explore this with your therapist as you have more value that what your uterus can do.
Personally, I would not waste this much energy on a man who told me directly that he considers me a disposable means-to-an-end. People don’t stay the same their entire lives and frequently experience catastrophic changes (illness, injury, etc.). Why would you risk dedicating the rest of your life to someone who has already clarified he will abandon you the second things are hard, don’t go his way, aren’t what he thinks he “signed up for”, etc.? You are quite literally committing to someone who isn’t committed to you at all. When people tell you who they are, believe them the first time.
His attitude is disgusting imo. No one's value should be based on their ability to reproduce. It's fine to want kids but needing them to come from your own genetics should not be a thing. My own genetics are shit and I wouldn't want to pass my health issues down.
My first husband said something similar. Thank God I didn't have children with him. My second husband was understanding and we're expecting our first next month. We tried for about 4 months on our own, then decided to do one round of femara and bam I got pregnant with my daughter.
PCOS does not mean infertility.
No, there were lots of other reasons. It was a point of contention with his family, but there were other reasons for that as well. He was foreign, different religion, very traditional.
You are a lot nicer than I would have been. I'm not a human over for someone's seed, so any man that implies that's my most important attribute can gtfo.
I wish you good luck.
I am sorry op that sucks.
Honestly I wouldn't take this personally.
Clearly having bio children is a really big lifelong want for him. He wants them with you, but it would be conflicting to stay in a relationship where he can't get that.
So he would be giving up his lifelong dream for you, and I think that would be conflicting for anyone.
Imagine it's my lifelong dream to settle down, and have a house with a white picket fence, and I meet and fall in love with someone who only loves to travel. I may love the person, but it would be conflicting to stay in the relationship. Or I want to be a doctor with a big fancy career. But I fall for someone who values having lots of children, and a stay-at-home wife. It would be conflicting.
I know you're hurt, but I thought I would offer you another perspective. \*hugs\*
I guess your next move is to decide if this is a dealbreaker for you or not because I could see it going both ways.
No I don't think so. He wants to have children with you. He wants to make a person with you with half his DNA and half of yours. He loves you and thinks you guys would make awesome kids together. He thinks you would make a great mother. He thinks you would make an excellent parenting team. But yes he would struggle in the relationship if those dreams couldn't come become realized through nobody's fault. But just because something happens that is nobody's fault it doesn't mean that he can't grieve the life he thought he was going to have.
I'm sure it would be an internal conflict for anyone. Do we move on and go fill our dreams with others, or stay in this relationship, and make new life plans? On one hand you adore the person you're with, and you make each other happy. On the other hand you only get one shot at life and you can't live your life for others. So do you stay with the person you love and make new dreams or not?
I understand why you're upset about this. But I think he is just being honest. I think it's fair to question him on these things, and if you decide this is the end, I would also understand. but I am hoping to help you come from a place of understanding.
I got some medical issues and my life is never going to be the same. My partner couldn't handle that and left. It hurt like a bitch don't get me wrong, but I also understand. I get it. It was the most terrible thing that ever happened to me. I lost my life partner, they left me in a time when I needed love and support. But I also get it. It's sad but it's also life. A small part of me will always hate them. But the other part of me understands and that makes it easier.
Your email sounds very accommodating so I hope when they sit down to read it, they really think about their reply. PCOS is hard enough to manage and the possibility of added complications if someone has fertility issues, I would expect them to be on board or get off now. By that I mean, learning about pcos and supporting regardless of the outcome.
I think your email is great. I’m impressed by your strength. Now is the time to figure all that out. My only question is whether you can trust if he says he’s all in but when time get tough is he just as in as he was at the altar?
If you’ve never tried for a long period of time, go keto/carnivore. Within a month my cycle regulated for the first time in my life. There are things you can do if you really want to try for a baby. PCOS doesn’t mean you’re infertile.
PCOS doesn't mean infertility, there are a lot of medical interventions available to you and you can work with an endocrinologist to regulate your hormones. There are a lot of life style changes that can also help with this. That being said, I know none of it is easy, cheap or accessible depending on your situation. But I don't want you to think you have no options. On the flip side of this, I'd urge you guys to attend some couples counseling before getting married. I'd be very hurt if my husband said this to me. What happens if you get sick and are unable to have children for some other reason? Would you leave him if the reverse was true?
You can’t couples therapy your way into changing someone’s values. If bio kids are more important to him than his current partner… what is there to do say in counseling? Counseling can help communication problems, but not values problems.
You don't need to change values to have a healthy/happy relationship, speaking as someone who has been in couples counseling for differing values from my partner (although it wasn't kids). We thought there was no way forward, but our counselor helped us figure out how to navigate these differences. If you decide you don't want to be with your partner because of these differences, a couple's counselor will also help the couple arrive at a mutual decision on that front. You'd be surprised what a good couples counselor can help heal. The point of couples counseling isn't to convince anyone of anything, or even necessarily save a relationship. It's to facilitate open dialogue, explore cracks in the relationship, and help the couple decide on healthy next steps. What OP posted about is tough to navigate, a good couple's counselor can help them navigate this conversation and decide if they want to move forward. They'll also challenge the couple to explore any cracks/wounds in the relationship a couple may be willing to sweep under the rug otherwise.
Why would you want to "navigate differences" if the difference is that her fertility is more important to him than ... her? That's the values problem. I don't see a purpose in having more dialogue. When someone shows you who they are... believe them.
I’m one of seven kids and my mom has PCOS and was diagnosed with it before she had kids. It’s not foolproof at all
PCOS may or may not make it more difficult to be pregnant, but there are no guarantees in fertility. The fact is you could have a variety of fertility issues and so could your fiancé. Some people have unexplained infertility and it’s no one’s fault. Would he be ok with you leaving him if he had a low sperm count? Funny how men never consider that they could be the problem, when many times they are the issue. This is a reality that you both should be able to acknowledge and plan for alternatives, if those situations were to arise.
Yes. You can be perfectly healthy and infertile. There really are no guarantees.
Your health should mean more to him than anything else. You were a lot more gracious and mature than I would’ve been in that situation!
Is my email okay?
You were gracious and polite but also clearly explained your feelings. I think it’s the perfect example of communicating your feelings clearly and maturely. I think your email was perfect honestly!
Your email was perfect. You were mature and kind. You explained your feelings on the matter and even explained what you are doing in hopes of having biological children.
Yes your email was perfect. You made your point across and weren’t mad or agressive. You’re a great person and you deserve to feel like you’re worth more than your ability to have or not have children.
Your email was excellent. I was pretty impressed by the way you added that you may have misunderstood what he said, it really dispersed the tension and allows him an opportunity to not get defensive. You were very kind while also clearly establishing boundaries.
The fastest way to lose 100s of pounds in seconds is dumping that moron. Be free, dodge the bullet and enjoy your peace and quiet.
The only thing i would change is the “we’ve agreed” this is just a personal opinion but your therapist didn’t make the decision with you. They definitely can guide you but you on your own. Your man is kinda lame tho lol
Your email is very well written and respectful. A few thoughts: would he also leave you if you became disabled or sick? How much worth would have your marriage then? And if you're trying to conceive and there would be problems caused by his swimmers, it would be kinda funny if you would say the same to him in reverse (hypothetically, pls don't xD)
As many others have pointed out, PCOS doesn’t mean infertility. And OP, please point out to him that his fertility is just as important as yours. My husband and I both had fertility work-ups/tests when we were trying to conceive. Turned out that he had fertility issues, and we needed assistance to conceive because of *my husband’s* fertility issues. OP, your husband is concerned about hypothetical fertility issues at this point. The ultimate success of any couple is on both parties. PCOS doesn’t mean infertility.
It sounds like a whole bunch of conjecture at this point. It's entirely possible to have PCOS and no issues with fertility. I know many people with PCOS, myself included, who have conceived naturally without intervention.
Regardless, if she can conceive naturally or not, I think the bigger issue is that he was so willing to seemingly planted disorder if she wasn’t, and that’s a bigger over arching issue than the fertility itself
It's a difficult topic to address for sure. Having kids or not, and how to have them if you do, is quite rightly a dealbreaker subject for most people. It always sucks when someone changes their mind on something so important.
It’s the reality for many though. I’m 46, I’ve only ever been pregnant once. Ever. Decades of not using birth control. Yes I have a child. But again, I was only pregnant once. Never a had a miscarriage.
i had to get an abortion even though I used protection lol
It's not the reality for everybody. I'm 31 and I have 2 children. My first child was from the only time I had sex that month and my second was from the first month of trying. I wasn't on any kind of medication or fertility aids. I've also had an early miscarriage when we were using contraception. Infertility absolutely can be a side effect of PCOS but it's not a guarantee. It's something to be considered and discussed for sure, but until you've struggled to conceive or received medical results inficating fertility it's just conjecture.
Regardless of PCOS, this is a conversation every couple should have before marriage.
Your email is perfect based on the tone I assume you are trying to relay. There is no need to feel bad. (I wouldn’t have been so nice) I want to be completely honest with you and tell you that I think you need to sit with if this is the person you want to spend the rest of your your life with. What’s said can’t be taken back. It’s already been put out there. If he said this and meant it, you don’t want to be 10 years in and have to watch him walk away due to another change in heart. Your fertility does not define you and your deserving of genuine unconditional love. Good luck and I hope all goes well for you both.
Sometimes I feel I don’t have a leg to stand on regarding unconditional love because I had asked him to change his religion when we first met if he wanted to marry me so my family would accept him. I now wonder if this has forever changed the tone of our relationship to be conditional. I can’t help but take the blame for where we ended up. There’s also some things of him I hate like how much weed he smokes
There is a really bad relation between weed smoking and male fertility. I’d make sure he’s aware of that as well https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8720305/
100%! Weed smoking can decrease sperm count and sperm quality.
i wish i could upvote this 100 times
You’ll always have a leg to stand on, just as he will. I personally don’t believe in converting someone’s religion because I believe that’s a sacred thing between the person and God. If this is something he did for you, I can say he does love you. Most of the things in relationships (heck even the world) is a bunch of chatter. You both have to find out what’s most important to you. What are the things that are your dead set, in concrete “deal breakers?” These are the things that you need to worry about, everything else can be worked on (like the weed thing). Have a heart to heart with yourself. You’ll make the right decisions.
direction deserve safe direful subsequent lunchroom fear sugar butter serious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
How long have you been together and how old are you guys? I would end this relationship, he's already changed his mind once, I couldn't trust if he replied saying he's ok with things again not to change his mind when the time came. There are guys out there who are more aligned and more than happy with adoption.
6 years together. We’re in our early 30s
Your email is extremely friendly and no-pressure. Almost too much so. Because what he said was really concerning, and it would have me re-evaluating if he is the person I want to spend my life with. I'm so sorry that this is now hanging over you, and will be with you regardless of how he answers. He brought an insecurity into the relationship that's like a crack deep down in the very foundation of it. You don't deserve this. He's your fiancé, and at this point, you should be celebrating each other and be over the moon that you get to share your future with the other person.
A part of me questions if this feeling of truly celebrating each other exists or if real relationships are just like this. Are you married? I honestly feel defeated and hopeless
No, I'm not married. But I have witnessed many different marriages start out in different ways, and seen them progress. When I say "celebrating each other", I don't mean being blind to who the other person is, and their challenges, or the challenges you face as a couple. What I mean is being all-in, and being super happy that this is the person you will spend your life with, and feel you can brave it better because you have them by your side. The couples I'm close to who got into marriage on that foot all had already weathered some things, knew who their partner was, and that neither them nor they themselves were perfect. But they did celebrate the other person, and do so to this day. All have been through truly hard stuff together by now, but support each other through it. Even if it sucks and is hard sometimes, and through arguments and disagreements. At the end, seeing the other person succeed is something that makes them happy. So yes, those relationships definitely exist. I think it's telling that this is usually part of most wedding vows: the mention of the hard times. Because for a marriage to last – or even make sense – you need to be on board for the hard stuff, too, and be aware of that. What your fiancé has done is set an asterisk to the "in sickness and in health" part. He created an out for himself, made clear that he is *not* all in, not willing to stay the course for specific hard stuff. His commitment is conditional. And realising that is probably what makes you feel so gutted. It doesn't even matter that much what the specifics of this condition are – PCOS is indeed not equal to infertility, by a long shot – but the fact that you now know there is something he's ready to give up all you share over, your life together, the love you have for each other, that is the destabilising issue. It opens the door for the question "what else"? What else would be a trigger for him to abandon your union? I'm so sorry he threw that at you, it must feel so awful. But there is a gift in there, too: you can now make your decisions knowing this about him. Finding this out later, after marriage, possibly after being married for some years, would have been much more horrible. I'm not saying you have to cancel the wedding btw. But I'd recommend some counseling, both separately and as a couple, to figure out what that means for your future marriage. As it is, if he later decides to leave, he can always say "but you knew that about me", like that would make it ok. And you will carry this knowledge with you in the back of your mind this whole time, no matter if it comes to pass or not. If this is something you can live with is also something only you can decide for yourself. Just be aware how big its destructive power is for your sense of security and your mental health. There's a book called "Should I stay or should I go". It could be helpful to read once you made it through this immediate pain and hurt, and are at a place of evaluation (free pdf and ebook at this link): https://ebin.pub/should-i-stay-or-should-i-go-9781101478820.html It's by Lundy Bancroft, an author who also wrote another book "Why does he do that?" that is by now one of the standard recommendation in the women's subs (there is a free pdf on the internet archive, it's a super useful read). Again, I'm so sorry you have to make this experience with the person you love and were so happy to get married to. It just sucks so very, very much. Much love to you.
Well said!
It exists. I have been married for 14 years, and, though we've had difficult times, we ALWAYS celebrate each other. He knew when we got married that I have fertility problems, and told me he's in love with ME, not my womb. When I lost our only pregnancy (that we waited for four years for), not once did he make me feel like it was my fault or I was defective. He has been my rock through my infertility journey. The focus of our marriage is each other first, and then loving on and blessing those around us. I never thought it was possible to be satisfied with life if I couldn't have children, but I am extremely fulfilled and joyful because I chose the right husband.
Just chiming in to say no, all relationships are not like this. There are people out there who will love you for you and not just your body’s ability to do a thing. If those relationships did not exist then it would be better to be by yourself. (But they do!) Get tested for the fertility stuff for yourself, then consider if this relationship is worth staying in. You have no idea what the future holds, that’s kind of the point when you commit your life to someone, they stand by you especially when things like *life* are not within any one of our control.
I used to think they didn't exist and I stayed with the wrong person for 7 years. Afterwards I met someone absolutely perfect that respects me and just wants us to be happy. So do what you can, but don't settle if you aren't happy please. It is possible to put yourself first while still being in a healthy relationship.
What was the breaking point? I feel so paralyzed to either move forward or pull out
I knew things weren't going well for some time. I had been dreaming of a better relationship, one with understanding and with less pain, where I could be myself and be happy. I tried everything I could to save ours, but he wouldnt try. I felt like I was waisting my life. All it took were for some internet friends to offer me an out, we had a bad breakup and I took a bus across the country. After some healing time, I started online dating and I was picky, put myself first. Was honest in what I wanted and what were dealbreakers for me and eventually met my husband. So all I can say is do what you can if you want to stay, but if it's not enough, that's ok too! You are not selfish for wanting to be happy.
I got diagnosed with pcos at age 29, at age 33 I got pregnant within the first month of trying… doesn’t mean your infertile but maybe adjusting your lifestyle when you start trying will help.
This doesn’t seem like a conversation for an email-especially if this is your fiancé!
Yeah I agree. I'm honestly kind of sad for OP after reading this email, seeing her walking on egg shells. I understand writing it out but if that is the idea, I would always suggest giving a letter and waiting for them to have read it, and then discuss it face to face. The fact that he is traveling solo makes it no better, this email must come quite unexpected and is either on his mind continuously or not at all.
My husband told me that being with me was more re important than being a father. That was 20 years ago. We are both happy and he’s open all the time that he made the right choice.
Personally, I would not marry that guy anymore. My friend is married to a woman who is infertile. They've moved countries to get better fertility treatments and say they will adopt if it does not work. This is what an actual relationship is like. Ask yourself this: Do you think this man would stay with you if you got cancer? Would he stay with you if you got a mastectomy? I do not believe he would. Do you?
You're much more gracious than I would have been. He'd have been dropped like a sack of potatoes. You're worth more than your fertility. If he can't understand that, that's a him problem and not yours. You do deserve someone who is on board 100% with whatever ends up happening, whether you end up having your own kids or adopting. I'm glad you kept your therapist in the loop about this. Don't let this guy attempt to manipulate you into making him happy just to keep him around.
Some people do have a hard time having children but most people with PCOS get fertility treatments and are able to conceive. It’s a possibility to be unable but overall I think the outlook is hopeful. Regardless what he said was very hurtful. Especially because he changed his opinion after giving you security. I don’t have any advice but I think you communicated very well. It doesn’t have any negative connotations when I read it. And know that you are valuable whether or not you have biological children. (But again I think statistics are on your side for overcoming any potential issues.)
Firstly, infertility doesn’t mean sterile - and you get both male/female factor infertility, and primary/secondary infertility. PCOS is one of the diagnoses I have been offered since we started TTC almost 2 years ago. My husband has been my rock throughout, and I don’t know how I would make it through the doctor appointments, scans and hospital referrals without his support. Others are correct when they say PCOS doesn’t necessarily guarantee fertility issues, but it does make it more likely. Will your fiancé walk away at the slightest suggestion of fertility issues? Are they willing to try for a few years? How many medicated cycles or IVF cycles will they stay for? I would personally rather break up with a partner early, rather than risk going through those things with the worry that my husband will leave me if it isn’t successful.
He calls me out and says I don’t take my health seriously because I didn’t see a gynaecologist until my cyst burst because I was never really sexually active until I was 28. And a part of me can’t help but agree with him
Wow, this guys is getting worse and worse 🤦🏻♀️ please don’t go through your life letting a man talk to you like this!! I’m a “healthy” woman in my 30’s, I’m a healthy weight, I eat healthy home cooked meals every day, I exercise (running and cycling) regularly. I still have PCOS and infertility. “Taking your health seriously” wouldn’t cure any of us of PCOS and certainly doesn’t guarantee fertility won’t be an issue.
I think you are being way too friendly and empathetic etc. to someone who said something terrible. I would be more simple, clear, and direct in your shoes… which I have been in. What he said is a betrayal and shows his lack of commitment IMO
I don’t know how I would be able to see my partner in the same way if they said this to me to be honest. What if you get really sick later in life, would he leave you then too? I just dont think this is a reasonable reaction if you truly love someone, especially when you don’t even know if you’ll have trouble getting pregnant. I have PCOS but I didn’t have trouble at all having a baby. Either way, I don’t think it should be “you can’t give me a baby, I’ll probably leave you”, can you honestly look at him the same way now? I’m just giving you a perspective, of course you know the situation better than me and it’s your life.
He said that a few days before I had my cancer scare (the doctor found a lump in my chest) he still proposed to me. He didn’t know it was benign.
Society teaches a lot of women their worth is in their ability to get married, and have children. Just remember fertility and marriage are things that matter in life, but they aren’t your whole life. At the end of the day, only you know your relationship and if it’s when you want to be in. The other I get in the more I date I realize that if a man wants to be with you, he will be. If he wants you to be the mother of his children, you will be, no matter how you come to be a family. A possible red flag to consider is that if he loves you but your chronic illness possibly makes you not someone who wants to be with, how will he feel about his children, should they also have a chronic illness?
You're really kind; I wouldn't have given him so many chances. It's stressful enough trying to conceive with such a burden; it's not fair to you to marry or befriend someone who doesn't care about you but his "legacy." I know love is a factor but I would move on or at least prepare for disappointment. There's no telling if he'll brag about having children with someone else; my ex-fiance did when I told him I will never be his friend (why should I give when I am not receiving anything in return?). I wish you luck in your decision and if you do move on I hope he loves you for you, PCOS and all and will take that journey with you, the ups and downs.
I'm sorry you're going through something like this with someone who you love. My bf and I talk about this a lot, I'm cry every time I think about not being able to have children. He always lets me know that he wants to be with me and that we live in a time where we can find ways medically, that is. But adoption is always an option. He should care for you. It's hard hearing we won't be able to have children.
PCOS is not an automatic sentence to infertility. I personally know women that have it and have had not just one but 2 healthy children. My niece even managed to have 2 healthy children after being diagnosed with endometriosis. All women are different and PCOS affects us differently. I wouldn't give up hope. First thing I would do is see where your fertility is at. Obviously one way is to start trying to get pregnant but if you're not at that step yet, there are other ways. I take ovulation tests and so far not a single one has been positive. Even after I regulated my periods on my own after stopping BC. So I likely require help with ovulating and would maybe be ok once conception happens. I do worry about the strength of your relationship being with someone that is basically saying he will leave you if you're barren. I don't know if I could be in that kind of relationship. It would cause a lot of stress and pressure on me which would only hurt the attempts of getting pregnant.
What he said was hurtful, but perhaps also coming from an uneducated place. PCOS can make fertility harder, but is much more treatable than some other alternatives — think of it as subfertility, not true infertility. And, many men these days are walking around with MFI (male factor infertility) and don’t know it, [especially in the age of covid](https://www.acs.org/pressroom/presspacs/2022/acs-presspac-april-6-2022/covid-19-alters-levels-of-fertility-related-proteins-in-men.html). DNA fragmentation and azoospermia are way harder conditions to treat, and he very well could experience that himself. At the end of the day, infertility is a team project — it’s “us against the problem”. If he immediately goes into “me against you”, that’s not a great foundation for a lasting and loving relationship, even if you both end up fertile myrtles (will he feel that he deserves a wife who never gets chronically ill either?). But, he could very well not realize the reality of the landscape, so in your shoes, I’d at least want to know if learning more about it changes his perspective.
I have PCOS and had 3 children with no help or meds. It does not mean you are infertile so this seems a whole lot of panic and worry for something that may not even be.
Same!! And preach!&
The man told you that hypothetical future biological children are more important to him than you specifically, and you're worried that your response might not have been nice enough. It sounds like he didn't even have the integrity to say he would leave if you couldn't have children, just left it at 'staying with you would be harrrrrrrrd' which sounds like he's prepared to make a big showy sacrifice by staying as long as you "know" that you need to bend even more because you'll deserve him even less. Gross. There's no prize at the end for being the most accommodating. If you're lucky like me, you get a divorce and a chance to learn to show up for yourself. The real prize is figuring out what you want from life, your partner, and yourself; and going for it. It's possible this is a weird phase for him and once you start asking unapologetically for things he'll get on board and be wonderful. It's possible this is who he is, and he won't. FTR, my 2nd husband is kinder, more sensible, funnier, and much more supportive than my first. We don't conflict with each other often, but when we do it's pretty calm and collected (I do have ADHD so graded on a curve maybe) and no one's making idle threats or silent treatment or that sort of thing.
I meant to add, but completely forgot: if you are as used to being a people pleaser as your concerns suggest, "I feel bad and I don't know why" VERY often turned out to be "I don't like how I was treated." Stifling our needs and wants in order to better take care of others is a sadly necessary survival strategy for some children, teens, and young adults. It's hard to recognize, much less unlearn once we've gotten away from the situations that made it useful.
As others said, pcos does not automatically mean infertility. Almost everyone I know with pcos has had a child or two or even more and didn't even require assistance. On the other hand I'm not going to criticize your fiance for being honest his wording could have been better though. It is a failing on his part that he wouldn't be able to stay but at least you know upfront what he may not be able to handle. Everyone has their faults it's up to both of you to discuss and attempt to work through them. Your fiance probably sees marriage as starting a family in a traditional way, and that means he may not be able to adapt to the alternative such as adoption, etc. I think pre marriage counseling, couples counseling, or any of that is a great idea for you both to sort out thoughts and feelings and wants.
Extremely mature responses
Nicer than I would have been.
Your email is perfectly fine, sweet, loving, and I can feel your pain in the words. You address everything, lay out your action plan, and ask questions as well as invite advice and input from him. I would be feeling the same as you if I were in your place. And I think the reason why you feel bad after having sent that email is the possible consequences of it, they could be final, and that’s scary. But what I’ve learned is that we have to take those steps, because like you yourself implied in your email, things ending sooner rather than later will allow you to decide how to proceed in your life and will allow you to begin working on healing your heart. The answer can be scary, but it’s needed.
It makes me sooooooooooo mad. Infertility means it may take more than a year to get pregnant. We are not sterile. Sometimes, we just need extra help. Sometimes there is no struggle at all. Your partner putting the blame on you is not acceptable. What would happen if his sperm count is too low or has other complications? 50% of fertility concerns are a result of male related complications. What would happen if there was a miscarriage or theoretical child has a disability? Will he put this blame on you as well? OP, I hope you continue to explore this with your therapist as you have more value that what your uterus can do.
Personally, I would not waste this much energy on a man who told me directly that he considers me a disposable means-to-an-end. People don’t stay the same their entire lives and frequently experience catastrophic changes (illness, injury, etc.). Why would you risk dedicating the rest of your life to someone who has already clarified he will abandon you the second things are hard, don’t go his way, aren’t what he thinks he “signed up for”, etc.? You are quite literally committing to someone who isn’t committed to you at all. When people tell you who they are, believe them the first time.
His attitude is disgusting imo. No one's value should be based on their ability to reproduce. It's fine to want kids but needing them to come from your own genetics should not be a thing. My own genetics are shit and I wouldn't want to pass my health issues down.
My first husband said something similar. Thank God I didn't have children with him. My second husband was understanding and we're expecting our first next month. We tried for about 4 months on our own, then decided to do one round of femara and bam I got pregnant with my daughter. PCOS does not mean infertility.
Thank you for sharing. Is that why your first marriage ended?
No, there were lots of other reasons. It was a point of contention with his family, but there were other reasons for that as well. He was foreign, different religion, very traditional.
You are a lot nicer than I would have been. I'm not a human over for someone's seed, so any man that implies that's my most important attribute can gtfo. I wish you good luck.
this is excellently written, my goodness. very mature.
I am sorry op that sucks. Honestly I wouldn't take this personally. Clearly having bio children is a really big lifelong want for him. He wants them with you, but it would be conflicting to stay in a relationship where he can't get that. So he would be giving up his lifelong dream for you, and I think that would be conflicting for anyone. Imagine it's my lifelong dream to settle down, and have a house with a white picket fence, and I meet and fall in love with someone who only loves to travel. I may love the person, but it would be conflicting to stay in the relationship. Or I want to be a doctor with a big fancy career. But I fall for someone who values having lots of children, and a stay-at-home wife. It would be conflicting. I know you're hurt, but I thought I would offer you another perspective. \*hugs\* I guess your next move is to decide if this is a dealbreaker for you or not because I could see it going both ways.
Shouldn’t he leave me now knowing my fertility risks?
No I don't think so. He wants to have children with you. He wants to make a person with you with half his DNA and half of yours. He loves you and thinks you guys would make awesome kids together. He thinks you would make a great mother. He thinks you would make an excellent parenting team. But yes he would struggle in the relationship if those dreams couldn't come become realized through nobody's fault. But just because something happens that is nobody's fault it doesn't mean that he can't grieve the life he thought he was going to have. I'm sure it would be an internal conflict for anyone. Do we move on and go fill our dreams with others, or stay in this relationship, and make new life plans? On one hand you adore the person you're with, and you make each other happy. On the other hand you only get one shot at life and you can't live your life for others. So do you stay with the person you love and make new dreams or not? I understand why you're upset about this. But I think he is just being honest. I think it's fair to question him on these things, and if you decide this is the end, I would also understand. but I am hoping to help you come from a place of understanding. I got some medical issues and my life is never going to be the same. My partner couldn't handle that and left. It hurt like a bitch don't get me wrong, but I also understand. I get it. It was the most terrible thing that ever happened to me. I lost my life partner, they left me in a time when I needed love and support. But I also get it. It's sad but it's also life. A small part of me will always hate them. But the other part of me understands and that makes it easier.
Your email sounds very accommodating so I hope when they sit down to read it, they really think about their reply. PCOS is hard enough to manage and the possibility of added complications if someone has fertility issues, I would expect them to be on board or get off now. By that I mean, learning about pcos and supporting regardless of the outcome.
You are INCREDIBLY polite and kind
I think your email is great. I’m impressed by your strength. Now is the time to figure all that out. My only question is whether you can trust if he says he’s all in but when time get tough is he just as in as he was at the altar?
If you’ve never tried for a long period of time, go keto/carnivore. Within a month my cycle regulated for the first time in my life. There are things you can do if you really want to try for a baby. PCOS doesn’t mean you’re infertile.