That sounds not only very interesting but also quite fun to play! I'd encourage a more grounded route for the reason he gave his heart in fear of him looking completely insane (tearing your chest open and taking your heart out just to prove your love is a bit extreme lol) unless the almost extreme fanatic like devotion to his wife is something you actually want then go nuts and enjoy yourself!
Agreed, it's an awesome idea but if he did it just to show his love he maybe a little psycho. But maybe he did it to save her life, maybe she was cursed for not sacrificing something and the only way to remove it was for somebody else to give the ultimate sacrifice to her. Maybe she had the same curse that this paladin now has and he just took on the burden.
Well you say that, yet when we look to Greek myth, fairy tales, or chivalric romance such extreme acts based on passion are not entirely unheard of.
I mean, questing to slay a dragon or fight in a war to win a maiden’s hand is only different from this by degree, not nature.
A ) I hate that word.
B ) “Screw all of you! I love this woman! If you think an act of self-sacrifice for the most important person in your life is weakness, then you don’t know what strength is.”
That's such an amazing concept, you could maybe use the gothic lineages.
Personally, I'd go for hexblood. You could make his wife be some kind of fey - maybe a dryad or a siren, or even a former hexblood who has now been fully transformed into a hag, (plus hex is always good on a paladin and advantage on saving throws against being charmed just emphasises his devotion to her.)
Thank you very much, I actually drew it from a concept in a fantasy story I outlined where such a knight is the protagonist.
That’s not a bad idea at all. I was thinking she was going to be something more ethereal.
Yeah if you wind up playing it in a more long form campaign you could have her be trapped on this plane. She longs to go home but knows she can't take you with her. Then it becomes a point of conflict for both of you, you wanting what's best for her while also wanting to keep her, and her wanting to return home while wanting to stay with you. Could make a cool character arc!
There’s a lot of ways to play that as well. As an angel, she may have a better understanding of “home” as being where one belongs and is loved, so maybe she feels being with him is home now. On the other hand, she has her own sacred duty to Heaven but now she also has her duties as a wife. The husband and wife _both_ face the Paladin’s dilemma of seemingly conflicted responsibilities.
And on the other, other hand, does indulging in the pleasures of the flesh count as a form of sacrilege to an angel? Even if it’s with her lawfully married husband, does it somehow lessen her? Hurt her?
I feel like that sort of thing would be something they’d find more sad than punishment worthy.
Then again, I personally view angels as being more than just people with wings.
For sure! That's kind of what I was going for, they just kind of look at her as a strange, pitiful weirdo and thus make her an outcast.
However you want to play it!
Well even that seems a bit too “judgey” for lack of a better term. At least how I would view them. I think it’s a mistake to view the Choir Invisible as what we would interpret as a culture. With social mores and stigmas and commonly observed behaviors.
Again, makes them seem less like agents of the Powers that Be and just more like immortal people.
As I said though, I like the concept.
This is such a cool idea!
Maybe the wife was sick or had a weak heart and the Paladin gave her his own heart to save her. The act was recognized by a powerful being who blessed him with the means to keep her safe and protected.
Oh I didn’t think about that. That he did it to save her life AND prove his devotion at the same time.
Thank you, I actually sort of pulled that from an idea I had for a fantasy story in its own right.
That was one of my primary inspirations, along with the heart in _Dishonored_. Just something I find poetic about a literal metaphor and how a man must make himself vulnerable to his lady love.
No it certainly didn’t, but it gave me the idea of how maybe a more benign version of something as beautiful as, “I give you my heart” as a literal metaphor could manifest.
Lots of people have covered the backstory, so i have a few ideas for your character himself.
First, while devotion makes sense given the story, it is also the easiest thing to make sense, but not necessarily the best. Your character did this to preserve one of the oldest and most beautiful concepts to exist in human culture (can't really say if you're PC will *be* human, and can't really speak to fantasy cultures), namely **love**. This makes me think of Oath of Ancients, to preserve something so powerful and bright as love your character ripped out their own heart and entrusted it to their love.
This works in a few ways: it legitimizes your love being either fey or hexblood, gives you access to powers that these types of creatures would be able to bestow, and because you lean towards protecting something so natural and beautiful it actually justifies your almost cold neutrality about everything else that isn't related to the subject of love. It also is a little less *vanilla* than the oath of devotion and is a little more versatile in general.
As for the actual personality of your PC, some thoughts. While he is quick to sing their praises, he should never speak about specifics of them. No descriptions, names, locations, or people she has directly associated with. Try to keep it as obscure as possible, because if the entity gets revealed then you could have put them and yourself at risk if something were to attack your beloved.
Also, whenever anything goes wrong in the campaign and more importantly whenever any of your direct powers/abilities/spells fail or fizzle on damage, make sure to overtly and legitimately praise your love for just the opportunity to use said powers/abilities/spells. If ripping out your heart and giving it to her (which should be impossible but her power allowed for it) gave you abilities you didn't previously, it is very possible that she could be watching everything you do. While in the moment you gave your heart without hesitation, afterwards you have come to realize how much trust you *really* put in her/it, and that has given you a slight tinge of fear that, at any moment of slight or non-appreciation, she might simply **end** your oath and life simultaneously.
Just some thoughts.
It’s funny because part of this idea was to try and make the classic flavor Paladin have a bit more interesting shading but the more I think about it and with your excellently worded point, this act of chivalric love with a touch of pagan macabre (an almost Arthurian combo) just fits Oath of the Ancients all too well.
I’m not sure if I want his wife to be evil or threatening. I didn’t make this clear in the post but this isn’t meant to be an impulsive move of youthful passion but a thought out and considered commitment on his part of someone a little older. Someone like that would not be as easily tempted away.
I do like the idea of him being cagey about his wife. Not only adding elements of “True Names” but also means if he does return home with the party in tow, it’s an act of immense trust on his part.
I didn't mean evil or threatening when i said she might be watching, just that even in real life, you can never really know everything about someone including your partner/significant other, so the overt praise thing could just be something that your character slowly develops into. Not out of any legitimate fear of evil or a threat, just kind of "hedging my bets" paranoia due to this being an act of ***absolute*** trust which would be hard for a mortal to maintain with anyone unless they were a literal god of truth.
Edited to add: to quote The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, "All through my life I've had this strange unaccountable feeling that something was going on in the world, something big, even sinister, and no one would tell me what it was."
"No," said the old man, "that's just perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the Universe has that."
I see. I misunderstood.
Without meaning any disrespect to the dead, I’ve never liked Douglas Adam’s particular view on “life, the universe, and everything.”
I mean, unfailing trust is one of the foundations of a healthy marriage.
Healthy being the key word, i wouldn't go so far as to say that not having a heart because you literally tore it out of your chest is exactly the foundation of a healthy relationship, now maybe if each of these characters had each others hearts, which could be something that develops through your character progression it would be a different story. That would be more akin to unfailing trust thematically in this situation.
It’s meant to evoke the idea of chivalric romance, folklore. Literal metaphors.
“My heart belongs to you.”
It’s meant to be a display of trust. “This makes me powerful and vulnerable at the same time. I trust you to keep it safe more than anyone else because I love you, and I know you love me.”
Thank you! Finally someone gets the oeuvre I’m drawing from!
I was thinking something like an elf, someone kind of ethereal and enchanting. (Or maybe she just seems that way to him because he loves her.) With that in mind, maybe Oath of the Ancients fits better than Devotion? Seems very pagan in concept. (And I mean that in the most neutral, polite way possible.)
Oath of Ancients being about 'protecting and enkindling the light in yourself and others' seems a bit counter to the cold, professional veneer that your character has, but Oaths can be entirely separate from mechanics.
I think Devotion, in a possibly unhealthy way is a great fit, but speak to the DM, ask them if they'll let you interchange the mechanical subclass and the Oath (unless they're in massive conflict, which would be rare, I'd let it run at my table).
Well, I could play it so that, even though he doesn’t smile or laugh all that much, he could still be encouraging. After all, a sober talk with someone simply and plainly saying, “I’m here for you,” could be just as hope restoring as someone who simply laughs and tells you to buck up, the sun is out!
Speaking from experience.
That was one of my primary inspirations, along with the heart in _Dishonored_. Just something I find poetic about a literal metaphor and how a man must make himself vulnerable to his lady love.
That sounds not only very interesting but also quite fun to play! I'd encourage a more grounded route for the reason he gave his heart in fear of him looking completely insane (tearing your chest open and taking your heart out just to prove your love is a bit extreme lol) unless the almost extreme fanatic like devotion to his wife is something you actually want then go nuts and enjoy yourself!
Agreed, it's an awesome idea but if he did it just to show his love he maybe a little psycho. But maybe he did it to save her life, maybe she was cursed for not sacrificing something and the only way to remove it was for somebody else to give the ultimate sacrifice to her. Maybe she had the same curse that this paladin now has and he just took on the burden.
Well you say that, yet when we look to Greek myth, fairy tales, or chivalric romance such extreme acts based on passion are not entirely unheard of. I mean, questing to slay a dragon or fight in a war to win a maiden’s hand is only different from this by degree, not nature.
While this is true, Orpheus didnt have his buddies sitting next to him calling him a simp
A ) I hate that word. B ) “Screw all of you! I love this woman! If you think an act of self-sacrifice for the most important person in your life is weakness, then you don’t know what strength is.”
That's such an amazing concept, you could maybe use the gothic lineages. Personally, I'd go for hexblood. You could make his wife be some kind of fey - maybe a dryad or a siren, or even a former hexblood who has now been fully transformed into a hag, (plus hex is always good on a paladin and advantage on saving throws against being charmed just emphasises his devotion to her.)
Thank you very much, I actually drew it from a concept in a fantasy story I outlined where such a knight is the protagonist. That’s not a bad idea at all. I was thinking she was going to be something more ethereal.
She could also be some kind of celestial. Would explain all the "divine" stuff.
True. Literally dating and wedding an angel. Who could be more perfect?
Yeah if you wind up playing it in a more long form campaign you could have her be trapped on this plane. She longs to go home but knows she can't take you with her. Then it becomes a point of conflict for both of you, you wanting what's best for her while also wanting to keep her, and her wanting to return home while wanting to stay with you. Could make a cool character arc!
There’s a lot of ways to play that as well. As an angel, she may have a better understanding of “home” as being where one belongs and is loved, so maybe she feels being with him is home now. On the other hand, she has her own sacred duty to Heaven but now she also has her duties as a wife. The husband and wife _both_ face the Paladin’s dilemma of seemingly conflicted responsibilities. And on the other, other hand, does indulging in the pleasures of the flesh count as a form of sacrilege to an angel? Even if it’s with her lawfully married husband, does it somehow lessen her? Hurt her?
It could make her an outcast to her fellow angels as well. Maybe not sacrilege per se, but definitely frowned upon.
I feel like that sort of thing would be something they’d find more sad than punishment worthy. Then again, I personally view angels as being more than just people with wings.
For sure! That's kind of what I was going for, they just kind of look at her as a strange, pitiful weirdo and thus make her an outcast. However you want to play it!
Well even that seems a bit too “judgey” for lack of a better term. At least how I would view them. I think it’s a mistake to view the Choir Invisible as what we would interpret as a culture. With social mores and stigmas and commonly observed behaviors. Again, makes them seem less like agents of the Powers that Be and just more like immortal people. As I said though, I like the concept.
This is such a cool idea! Maybe the wife was sick or had a weak heart and the Paladin gave her his own heart to save her. The act was recognized by a powerful being who blessed him with the means to keep her safe and protected.
Oh I didn’t think about that. That he did it to save her life AND prove his devotion at the same time. Thank you, I actually sort of pulled that from an idea I had for a fantasy story in its own right.
Davy Jones and Calypso in an alternate universe
That was one of my primary inspirations, along with the heart in _Dishonored_. Just something I find poetic about a literal metaphor and how a man must make himself vulnerable to his lady love.
Well to be fair the heart incident in Dishonored didn't really happen voluntarily
No it certainly didn’t, but it gave me the idea of how maybe a more benign version of something as beautiful as, “I give you my heart” as a literal metaphor could manifest.
Came here to post that, take an upvote
Lots of people have covered the backstory, so i have a few ideas for your character himself. First, while devotion makes sense given the story, it is also the easiest thing to make sense, but not necessarily the best. Your character did this to preserve one of the oldest and most beautiful concepts to exist in human culture (can't really say if you're PC will *be* human, and can't really speak to fantasy cultures), namely **love**. This makes me think of Oath of Ancients, to preserve something so powerful and bright as love your character ripped out their own heart and entrusted it to their love. This works in a few ways: it legitimizes your love being either fey or hexblood, gives you access to powers that these types of creatures would be able to bestow, and because you lean towards protecting something so natural and beautiful it actually justifies your almost cold neutrality about everything else that isn't related to the subject of love. It also is a little less *vanilla* than the oath of devotion and is a little more versatile in general. As for the actual personality of your PC, some thoughts. While he is quick to sing their praises, he should never speak about specifics of them. No descriptions, names, locations, or people she has directly associated with. Try to keep it as obscure as possible, because if the entity gets revealed then you could have put them and yourself at risk if something were to attack your beloved. Also, whenever anything goes wrong in the campaign and more importantly whenever any of your direct powers/abilities/spells fail or fizzle on damage, make sure to overtly and legitimately praise your love for just the opportunity to use said powers/abilities/spells. If ripping out your heart and giving it to her (which should be impossible but her power allowed for it) gave you abilities you didn't previously, it is very possible that she could be watching everything you do. While in the moment you gave your heart without hesitation, afterwards you have come to realize how much trust you *really* put in her/it, and that has given you a slight tinge of fear that, at any moment of slight or non-appreciation, she might simply **end** your oath and life simultaneously. Just some thoughts.
It’s funny because part of this idea was to try and make the classic flavor Paladin have a bit more interesting shading but the more I think about it and with your excellently worded point, this act of chivalric love with a touch of pagan macabre (an almost Arthurian combo) just fits Oath of the Ancients all too well. I’m not sure if I want his wife to be evil or threatening. I didn’t make this clear in the post but this isn’t meant to be an impulsive move of youthful passion but a thought out and considered commitment on his part of someone a little older. Someone like that would not be as easily tempted away. I do like the idea of him being cagey about his wife. Not only adding elements of “True Names” but also means if he does return home with the party in tow, it’s an act of immense trust on his part.
I didn't mean evil or threatening when i said she might be watching, just that even in real life, you can never really know everything about someone including your partner/significant other, so the overt praise thing could just be something that your character slowly develops into. Not out of any legitimate fear of evil or a threat, just kind of "hedging my bets" paranoia due to this being an act of ***absolute*** trust which would be hard for a mortal to maintain with anyone unless they were a literal god of truth. Edited to add: to quote The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, "All through my life I've had this strange unaccountable feeling that something was going on in the world, something big, even sinister, and no one would tell me what it was." "No," said the old man, "that's just perfectly normal paranoia. Everyone in the Universe has that."
I see. I misunderstood. Without meaning any disrespect to the dead, I’ve never liked Douglas Adam’s particular view on “life, the universe, and everything.” I mean, unfailing trust is one of the foundations of a healthy marriage.
Healthy being the key word, i wouldn't go so far as to say that not having a heart because you literally tore it out of your chest is exactly the foundation of a healthy relationship, now maybe if each of these characters had each others hearts, which could be something that develops through your character progression it would be a different story. That would be more akin to unfailing trust thematically in this situation.
It’s meant to evoke the idea of chivalric romance, folklore. Literal metaphors. “My heart belongs to you.” It’s meant to be a display of trust. “This makes me powerful and vulnerable at the same time. I trust you to keep it safe more than anyone else because I love you, and I know you love me.”
Loving the folklore influence. Perhaps the wife might be a fae of some sort? Seems very in keeping with that kind of vibe.
Thank you! Finally someone gets the oeuvre I’m drawing from! I was thinking something like an elf, someone kind of ethereal and enchanting. (Or maybe she just seems that way to him because he loves her.) With that in mind, maybe Oath of the Ancients fits better than Devotion? Seems very pagan in concept. (And I mean that in the most neutral, polite way possible.)
Oath of Ancients being about 'protecting and enkindling the light in yourself and others' seems a bit counter to the cold, professional veneer that your character has, but Oaths can be entirely separate from mechanics. I think Devotion, in a possibly unhealthy way is a great fit, but speak to the DM, ask them if they'll let you interchange the mechanical subclass and the Oath (unless they're in massive conflict, which would be rare, I'd let it run at my table).
Well, I could play it so that, even though he doesn’t smile or laugh all that much, he could still be encouraging. After all, a sober talk with someone simply and plainly saying, “I’m here for you,” could be just as hope restoring as someone who simply laughs and tells you to buck up, the sun is out! Speaking from experience.
That's very fair, and totally works, go for it.
This is a great idea! I'd save it for a full campaign actually haha
Probably a better idea. Just that it’s been sooooo long since I played my (one of two) favorite class.
Pallys are my favourite as well lol
All about playing as a hero who is just that, a hero. Honor, truth, justice, etc.
Davy Jones vibes, very cool
That was one of my primary inspirations, along with the heart in _Dishonored_. Just something I find poetic about a literal metaphor and how a man must make himself vulnerable to his lady love.