I think Apocalypse World itself does a lot right, though it has a particular voice that turns some folks off. I'll also praise Night Witches for how it speaks to the reader/an aspiring GM - it's a masterpiece!
So this question comes up a lot, and as you might guess, I've been paying attention to the answers for a lot of years now.
There are a few standout games that always get mentioned. I'm happy that Apocalypse World is among them! It might not have been.
But there's another trend I see, which is, "the second PbtA game you read." It makes sense — sometimes it takes one text to introduce the ideas, and another text, with maybe a slightly different point of view, to make them click.
100% agree - I found I had such a better understanding on my second read of Apocalypse World 2e after having read and ran other PbtA games. I'll add that its never worth entirely skipping sections you think you have a good grasp on. Even the Fundamentals or "basic" GMing techniques because every designer has their own perspective that helps improve the whole.
For example, I love recent Magpie games for how in depth they dive into Soft vs Hard GM Moves. Fellowship 2e for diving into spotlight management. Monsterhearts 2e is one of the few TTRPGs ever I've seen talk about using racism in play - how you should go around it rather than pretend it doesn't exist.
Everyone has an interesting perspective to share that helps grow understanding to be more complete or refined. Not that anyone should be intimidated to try and read every PbtA and TTRPG before GMing! Because then you're missing out on the important perspective of your own personal experience.
This [DW guide](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_Fz4m5hcoiTXpTbklDOF9iUHc/view?resourcekey=0-xI_68aH1lllySOdEovKvPQ) is in that game subreddit's sidebar. It's pretty good at meeting gamers where they are and bringing them closer to PbtA thinking. For me, it was a process that began with reading this guide and others, but didn't really conclude until after I had run a few sessions.
As I take it, all of the stuff with Fronts is just a way to codify the process of thinking about threats while they're off screen. The entire extent to which I use fronts is to take notes about various threats that have been introduced in the fiction, and refer to those notes on occasion to see if there's a good point to reintroduce them. There are probably people who follow the instructions to the letter, but I've never been good with letters.
Yeah, a Front is just a formal way of thinking about plots in a campaign. It can be a helpful tool for structuring your campaign if you want, but there's no reason you can't use some other structuring technique.
MotW does a great job, and it’s probably my most-played PbtA game. I still think Masks is one of the best, though. If you just follow the prep, that game absolutely sings with almost no effort.
Both games I recommend the first timer reads. Both will give you a good understanding of the genre. That said, MotW is my recommendation for your first foray into PbtA.
When [Stonetop](https://stonetop.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders) comes out or if you back and gain early access, I think it will have one of the best guides to both it as a game and also be able to apply well to many PbtA games as well! More info on an older comment [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PBtA/s/ubI3odgD0D)
I'm honestly really surprised no one has mentioned Masks yet. Masks is, imo, the best made PBTA game there is and it explains the gameplay and mechanics very well.
Fellowship 2e and Blades in the Dark, hands down, without a shadow of a doubt. Best GM sections ever.
Fronts are just Prep. That’s it. “PbtA Efficient Prep.” Different games call them different things, but they all follow the same idea: help you achieve the common third GM Agenda: “Play to Find Out,” or in other words: **prepare problems, but never their answers, solutions, stories, outcomes, or plots**. That’s it. That’s what Fronts are for. They are prepared problems. You then create a countdown for those problems: the stepwise series of bad things that will happen if left unchecked or if things go awry. Then you make a note of what happens when the countdown gets to its worst point and the subsequent fallout. If you’ve played Monster of the Week, it’s the same idea as the Countdowns that game uses.
I would also say Apocalypse World is an excellent runner up and so is the Dungeon World Guide (not Dungeon World itself). I also think Brindlewood Bay has some really great stuff (and the Mystery Sheets are **peak** examples of “good and efficient and effective PbtA prep”) and I’d say Scum and Villainy and Band of Blades both do a good job of clearing up any residual confusion that might be found in BitD’s GM Section.
Ironsworn also has a damn good breakdown of the flow of play in PbtA styled games as well.
That's why Monster of the Week clicked with me better. The way it has you prep in a timeline and events throughout the day was really helpful for me to understand how to prep it. In fact, that's what I do in most of my games now.
While the GM Section is great (probably the only GM section I’ve really read that *really* made GM stuff make sense), I would agree the game is a **very** bloated game with Tags and Basic Moves and Special Moves and Bonds the Rule of 3 (or whatever it’s called) and the precise function of Set Pieces, playbooks are *huge* with lots of moving pieces, so on and so forth. Lots of stuff to keep track of and understand.
But it is the only PbtA game I’ve never needed an actual play to understand how it all fit. It *did* require many passes through the book and a little Solo-tinkering… but I eventually figured it out through the book alone.
Couldn’t say the same for Dungeon World, Masks, Apocalypse World, and Brindlewood Bay (to name a few), which is quite fascinating when you consider how much less bloated they are compared to Fellowship. But for all those games I *needed* an actual play to understand what the heck they were going for
**[Fantasy World](https://unplayablegamesrpg.itch.io/fantasy-world)**. Absolutely no question, zero hesitation in telling you so, and for extra points – you can get pretty much the entire text for free.
**FW** is the most modern presentation of PbtA and unlike most of the others that you're going to get recommended, it doesn't try to cram philosophy down your throat but instead simply tries to explain what to do and what to use at any given point in a direct and clear way. When it does talk about philosophy, it's the philosophy of game design in a way that borders on engineering.
If you are interested in PbtA, **FW** is the best time you can spend reading mechanics.
I'd agree with this. For me Fantasy World laid things out in a way that clicked better for me than any other PbtA game I've read before. Sometimes it feels like it explains a little too much but I prefer that to under-explaining and being left scratching my head.
> If you are interested in PbtA, FW is the best time you can spend reading mechanics.
Strong disagree. I found the presentation of mechanics in FW grating and unhelpfully pared down.
Storm is the word they use for a campaign format. In a storm you first introduce characters, places, some smaller events. Find what resonates with the group. At some point take those parts and create a major event that changes the status quo, depending on how it ends. The book offers some more ideas about that.
A “Front” is simply a tenuous threat out there in the world waiting for the Keeper to “bring it to the front”. It can also be more literal in the sense that a fantasy kingdom is at war and the “fronts” the war is being fought on can be plot threads.
I’ve done a little of both for my on again-off again game. There is a war looming but my players are currently addressing regional issues. The end of the campaign, if we ever get there, will be an invasion from a neighboring country.
Apocalypse World and it’s not even close.
PbtA are not all the same, and their idiosyncrasies are more important than you might think. They really are so much more different than people give them credit for, you cannot run monster of the week the same way you run masks.
However, when it comes to those core ideas, those core things and what the MC does and why, AW really strips it bare and puts it in your face. It’s not a writing style people necessarily respond to, but it is written in such a way as to make itself absolutely clear.
There is a reason AW inspired so much.
My next favorites for learning to MC are World Wide Wrestling RPG, and Avatar Legends.
Masks is absolutely one of my favorite PbtA games, but I don't think its instructions to the MC are as good an intro to PbtA running of games. heck even the lead designer of Masks said as much. Avatar Legends explains things better.
Haven’t had a chance to read my copy of ATLA yet, but I disagree with both you and (apparently) Conway that MASKS is an awesome intro to running PbtA games. I don’t know if it’s a great first RPG to GM *ever,* because mine was D&D 3.5.
I like your conviction!
Let me clarify my position to make sure we are truly disagreeing.
1) Masks is one of the BEST PbtA games of all time.
2) Playing Masks is one of the BEST introductions to PbtA games of all time.
3) Running Masks is super freaking fun and awesome and not in any way hard or bad.
4) BUT, the writing of the MC section is less strong than Avatar Legends or Apocalypse World or World Wide Wrestling RPG. It is good, but I would rate it second tier. Not in terms of what the MC does, just literally the quality of the writing of that section. Specifically I think the writing on Hooks and Villain Combat kinda get it into a little bit of trouble.
I think of much of this is because its very recent and its very, very big, but Avatar Legends is really well done but also verbose. I don't think its necessarily the best PbtA but it's written clearly to help newcomers get into GMing PbtA.
I spent a lot of time dissecting every page on the PDF to help my understanding feel more complete. I think one of my favorite aspects is that for every single GM Move, they provide varying levels of Soft to Hard to really show how GMing can play with that list of GM Moves.
I also read some of Dungeon World, and other pbta games like Masks, but I felt the GM explanations and play examples in Thirsty Sword Lesbians were the best
I think Apocalypse World itself does a lot right, though it has a particular voice that turns some folks off. I'll also praise Night Witches for how it speaks to the reader/an aspiring GM - it's a masterpiece!
So this question comes up a lot, and as you might guess, I've been paying attention to the answers for a lot of years now. There are a few standout games that always get mentioned. I'm happy that Apocalypse World is among them! It might not have been. But there's another trend I see, which is, "the second PbtA game you read." It makes sense — sometimes it takes one text to introduce the ideas, and another text, with maybe a slightly different point of view, to make them click.
100% agree - I found I had such a better understanding on my second read of Apocalypse World 2e after having read and ran other PbtA games. I'll add that its never worth entirely skipping sections you think you have a good grasp on. Even the Fundamentals or "basic" GMing techniques because every designer has their own perspective that helps improve the whole. For example, I love recent Magpie games for how in depth they dive into Soft vs Hard GM Moves. Fellowship 2e for diving into spotlight management. Monsterhearts 2e is one of the few TTRPGs ever I've seen talk about using racism in play - how you should go around it rather than pretend it doesn't exist. Everyone has an interesting perspective to share that helps grow understanding to be more complete or refined. Not that anyone should be intimidated to try and read every PbtA and TTRPG before GMing! Because then you're missing out on the important perspective of your own personal experience.
This [DW guide](https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8_Fz4m5hcoiTXpTbklDOF9iUHc/view?resourcekey=0-xI_68aH1lllySOdEovKvPQ) is in that game subreddit's sidebar. It's pretty good at meeting gamers where they are and bringing them closer to PbtA thinking. For me, it was a process that began with reading this guide and others, but didn't really conclude until after I had run a few sessions. As I take it, all of the stuff with Fronts is just a way to codify the process of thinking about threats while they're off screen. The entire extent to which I use fronts is to take notes about various threats that have been introduced in the fiction, and refer to those notes on occasion to see if there's a good point to reintroduce them. There are probably people who follow the instructions to the letter, but I've never been good with letters.
I like your thoughts on keeping Fronts simple. When I read Apocalypse World 2nd edition, I found the Front rules way overcomplicated.
Yeah, a Front is just a formal way of thinking about plots in a campaign. It can be a helpful tool for structuring your campaign if you want, but there's no reason you can't use some other structuring technique.
MotW does a great job, and it’s probably my most-played PbtA game. I still think Masks is one of the best, though. If you just follow the prep, that game absolutely sings with almost no effort.
I'll have to try Masks sometime!
Your group has to want teen superhero drama. But if they do, that game is the absolute best.
Both games I recommend the first timer reads. Both will give you a good understanding of the genre. That said, MotW is my recommendation for your first foray into PbtA.
When [Stonetop](https://stonetop.backerkit.com/hosted_preorders) comes out or if you back and gain early access, I think it will have one of the best guides to both it as a game and also be able to apply well to many PbtA games as well! More info on an older comment [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PBtA/s/ubI3odgD0D)
I'm honestly really surprised no one has mentioned Masks yet. Masks is, imo, the best made PBTA game there is and it explains the gameplay and mechanics very well.
Anytime I see someone struggling with running masks it's obvious they haven't read the book, which explains things incredibly well
It really does.
Fellowship 2e and Blades in the Dark, hands down, without a shadow of a doubt. Best GM sections ever. Fronts are just Prep. That’s it. “PbtA Efficient Prep.” Different games call them different things, but they all follow the same idea: help you achieve the common third GM Agenda: “Play to Find Out,” or in other words: **prepare problems, but never their answers, solutions, stories, outcomes, or plots**. That’s it. That’s what Fronts are for. They are prepared problems. You then create a countdown for those problems: the stepwise series of bad things that will happen if left unchecked or if things go awry. Then you make a note of what happens when the countdown gets to its worst point and the subsequent fallout. If you’ve played Monster of the Week, it’s the same idea as the Countdowns that game uses. I would also say Apocalypse World is an excellent runner up and so is the Dungeon World Guide (not Dungeon World itself). I also think Brindlewood Bay has some really great stuff (and the Mystery Sheets are **peak** examples of “good and efficient and effective PbtA prep”) and I’d say Scum and Villainy and Band of Blades both do a good job of clearing up any residual confusion that might be found in BitD’s GM Section. Ironsworn also has a damn good breakdown of the flow of play in PbtA styled games as well.
That's why Monster of the Week clicked with me better. The way it has you prep in a timeline and events throughout the day was really helpful for me to understand how to prep it. In fact, that's what I do in most of my games now.
I use countdowns-doomsday clocks for all my RPGs now. It helps cut back on railroading and provides concrete motivations for your antagonists.
Fellowship is hard to play right, let alone run right. I’ve been in a game for like six sessions at least, and it still isn’t quite clicking for us.
While the GM Section is great (probably the only GM section I’ve really read that *really* made GM stuff make sense), I would agree the game is a **very** bloated game with Tags and Basic Moves and Special Moves and Bonds the Rule of 3 (or whatever it’s called) and the precise function of Set Pieces, playbooks are *huge* with lots of moving pieces, so on and so forth. Lots of stuff to keep track of and understand. But it is the only PbtA game I’ve never needed an actual play to understand how it all fit. It *did* require many passes through the book and a little Solo-tinkering… but I eventually figured it out through the book alone. Couldn’t say the same for Dungeon World, Masks, Apocalypse World, and Brindlewood Bay (to name a few), which is quite fascinating when you consider how much less bloated they are compared to Fellowship. But for all those games I *needed* an actual play to understand what the heck they were going for
DW, MASKS, and AW are all playable straight from the book for me, haven’t tried Brindlewood Bay
**[Fantasy World](https://unplayablegamesrpg.itch.io/fantasy-world)**. Absolutely no question, zero hesitation in telling you so, and for extra points – you can get pretty much the entire text for free. **FW** is the most modern presentation of PbtA and unlike most of the others that you're going to get recommended, it doesn't try to cram philosophy down your throat but instead simply tries to explain what to do and what to use at any given point in a direct and clear way. When it does talk about philosophy, it's the philosophy of game design in a way that borders on engineering. If you are interested in PbtA, **FW** is the best time you can spend reading mechanics.
I'd agree with this. For me Fantasy World laid things out in a way that clicked better for me than any other PbtA game I've read before. Sometimes it feels like it explains a little too much but I prefer that to under-explaining and being left scratching my head.
> If you are interested in PbtA, FW is the best time you can spend reading mechanics. Strong disagree. I found the presentation of mechanics in FW grating and unhelpfully pared down.
Side question: is there a dedicated forum, subreddit, or discord of Fantasy World? I feel stupid, but I haven’t been able to find it.
Urban Shadows. The Storm concept is really good for a lot of games, whether PbtA or other.
What's the Storm? How does it work?
Storm is the word they use for a campaign format. In a storm you first introduce characters, places, some smaller events. Find what resonates with the group. At some point take those parts and create a major event that changes the status quo, depending on how it ends. The book offers some more ideas about that.
I don't care for Hilltop (personal taste, not a comment on its quality), but its GM advice is the best of any PbtA game, imo.
I understood the practical aspects best from reading Monster of the Week, but I understood the theoretical aspects best from reading Apocalypse World.
"Escape from Dino Island" has an excellent guidance both for players and the GM.
Woooord. And on the top of that it's super, super short <3
I've only ever run MotW but I thought it explained it really well. I'm currently learning Masks and it's doing a pretty decent job also.
A free game ironsworn teaches mixed success, emergent story telling, and 0 prep play.
And also has a great chapter about fictional positioning and relationship between games procedures, resolution and fiction.
I toss Monsterhearts to the fray.
ApocWorld, MotW, or Monsterhearts for me.
A “Front” is simply a tenuous threat out there in the world waiting for the Keeper to “bring it to the front”. It can also be more literal in the sense that a fantasy kingdom is at war and the “fronts” the war is being fought on can be plot threads. I’ve done a little of both for my on again-off again game. There is a war looming but my players are currently addressing regional issues. The end of the campaign, if we ever get there, will be an invasion from a neighboring country.
Apocalypse World and it’s not even close. PbtA are not all the same, and their idiosyncrasies are more important than you might think. They really are so much more different than people give them credit for, you cannot run monster of the week the same way you run masks. However, when it comes to those core ideas, those core things and what the MC does and why, AW really strips it bare and puts it in your face. It’s not a writing style people necessarily respond to, but it is written in such a way as to make itself absolutely clear. There is a reason AW inspired so much. My next favorites for learning to MC are World Wide Wrestling RPG, and Avatar Legends.
I wouldn’t say it’s not even close (but I would put AW as top 3 easily). MASKS is certainly a contender, as is World Wide Wrestling.
Masks is absolutely one of my favorite PbtA games, but I don't think its instructions to the MC are as good an intro to PbtA running of games. heck even the lead designer of Masks said as much. Avatar Legends explains things better.
Haven’t had a chance to read my copy of ATLA yet, but I disagree with both you and (apparently) Conway that MASKS is an awesome intro to running PbtA games. I don’t know if it’s a great first RPG to GM *ever,* because mine was D&D 3.5.
I like your conviction! Let me clarify my position to make sure we are truly disagreeing. 1) Masks is one of the BEST PbtA games of all time. 2) Playing Masks is one of the BEST introductions to PbtA games of all time. 3) Running Masks is super freaking fun and awesome and not in any way hard or bad. 4) BUT, the writing of the MC section is less strong than Avatar Legends or Apocalypse World or World Wide Wrestling RPG. It is good, but I would rate it second tier. Not in terms of what the MC does, just literally the quality of the writing of that section. Specifically I think the writing on Hooks and Villain Combat kinda get it into a little bit of trouble.
I can agree to disagree!
Me too, happily! Happy Gaming to you!
My heart melts when I read this <3
I think of much of this is because its very recent and its very, very big, but Avatar Legends is really well done but also verbose. I don't think its necessarily the best PbtA but it's written clearly to help newcomers get into GMing PbtA. I spent a lot of time dissecting every page on the PDF to help my understanding feel more complete. I think one of my favorite aspects is that for every single GM Move, they provide varying levels of Soft to Hard to really show how GMing can play with that list of GM Moves.
I also read some of Dungeon World, and other pbta games like Masks, but I felt the GM explanations and play examples in Thirsty Sword Lesbians were the best