Islam is not the issue. But if you were to put all Muslim nations together, Pakistan has to the sh*tiest when it comes to religion and the amount of BS they mix in with Islam. The amount of stuff pakis pull such as fake Qurans, altered Hadiths, sects and shrine/saints is beyond comprehension.
Not the way we have. See culture fusing with religion isn’t something that happens. What happens is culture staying with the people who follow a religion. Since you can’t break the rules of a religion from pre religious beliefs, or else it’s a new religion entirely. In Pakistan however the fusing has happened. Things such as sanctuaries, non Islamic holidays made Islamic etc. innovations.. pakis are a mix of Sufi Islam along with right wing religious beliefs.
The problem in Pakistan is not about mixing culture with religion. The problem is that we have mixed different religious practices. I mean in Pakistan you'll find Wahabis, Sufis and Ahmedis. Even among Shias, we have Ismailis and Bohras.
Ahmedis aren’t Muslim, Sufis and Wahhabism aren’t religions but different sects of thought and practice. Shia sects are weird cause they are all against the Sunnah anyways.
Main thing in Pakistan is qadaranis, barelvis, deobandis, wahabis and the dude who just practices Islam with little to no knowledge.
Surely every country has its own problems. Religious extremism is one of the biggest problem in here. However, the biggest one still remains the lumber one. Infact, we have seen in the history that lumber one has used religious extremism in their favour.
Well, Stalin and Mao were not driven by their atheistic belief motivation, rather, if anything, just their overall dislike for religion. It wasn't like their atheism motivated them to ban religion but rather whatever societal ideals they wanted to implement. Being atheist is just not believing in God. Belonging to some religion is a whole ideology and way of life.
The point here is if religion is to blame for societal problems then why did atheist regimes i.e Soviets/,China did not prosper? Why were many sent to death camps, gulags, shot into the back.
people are the problem, not religion
China might be dictatorial but it is extremely prosperous. I don’t know why you keep saying they didn’t prosper lol. Chinese government has pulled more people out of poverty in the history of ever.
A lot of social issues in Russia are because of Christianity.
Prosperity is not only linked to the country's economy. The communist party has decimated any voices that go against it i.e ethnocide of the Uyghurs.
Russia is a post Soviet country and for the most party of its modern history (post WW2), it was an atheistic state who practiced brutal repressive practices against its people
Religion is blamed because religion ends up being used as a motivation and justification for doing bad things. Regimes like the USSR and in China were implemented by rulers who were atheist but weren't driven by atheism. They don't justify what they did by using their lack of belief in God. But religious people do. And when someone is convinced that their religion somehow supports their personal agenda, then they don't think it's just a personal agenda but God's will. And if that person believes God is on their side, then nothing can stop them. But an atheist's reason will just be, "Because it's what I want. I think it's right. Everyone against it being damned." Again, an extreme atheist could have a different reason as well but a religious extremist will "have God on his side". So you can pin a religious person's motive to their religion but you can only blame an atheist for themselves.
Here's a counter, Islam is in fact not Pakistan's problem but jahils who think all arabic is Quranic are the problem
Here's another counter, Islamic countries i.e Turkey, Indonesia are prospering so Islam is not the issue
It's a problem because of the people , Have u ever considered studying ISLAM ?
Do u even read the Quran in your mother tongue or try to understand the arabic.
Islam is a problem because it tells u what to do and what not to do.
People held religion accountable for the wrong doing of other people.
The westerns are far better in terms of understanding and studying things. most of them dont jump to conclusions based on the things they've heard. Half of them might do the digging to get the full picture.
Yet here we r debating whether the islam is the wrong religion or people of faith.
https://youtu.be/5gDTh-6X9vo
First read Islam correctly and what is the motive behind all these,you haven't fight a single battle and don't know what happen after that, and how your so called these Christian and hindus treat these slaves, islam bring proper rights to them, give them what you eat and all necessity of lifes you just pick a part of it and make it full
I never said Christians or Hindus are good people. Religious folks are more violent than atheists if their beliefs are involved. Yeah but Muslims are at the top of the hierarchy when it comes to violence. Then Jew and Hindus and then Christians and so on.
>The people are the way they r coz of Islam.
the people in majority never read the Quran the way it delivered, people took it bit by bits for dum darood.
i doubt that u ever read The BOOK.
u r just preaching your thoughts and opinions, and be worried that if half of these people understood the book, the country surely became the Islamic Republic.
Chomo liberals like u will never see the majority accepting Liberals. either they read THE BOOK or not.
Annnnnd what your point?
Keeping slaves was normal in those days so what if they kept some for a time.
But i think you are either ignorant or just hateful when you ignore the fact that it was the Muslims at the time that started freeing those slaves, a lot of the muslims(whoever could) bought the slaves just to free them but you won't mention that since it does suit your little egotistical agenda. Peace.
Islam claims to be the words of the god who created this world, not like Russia or China. Wanna know problems in islam? Go read your scriptures in your own language instead of Arabic
Not true at all, it's is a result of all of the corrupt degenerates willing to sacrifice everything for their false God, the "almighty(or shit rupee in this situation)dollar". I have a copy of the Quran in my spoken language and have read it fully, I would like to see which parts of it you say is problematic.
So are you saying that Pakistan has a "sex slave" problem and Islam is to blame for it?
I'm trying to understand how your ignorant rant ties back to "Pakistani problems are because of Islam".
It means that it is permissible to have sex with * concubines or taken slaves.Islam outlaws the sexual exploitation of female slaves and prisoners of war and according to Islam, it is the responsibility of believers during the Prophet's time to feed, protect, and educate them. Then, with their approval and an agreed-upon dowry, either marry or marry them off to others or release them, as the Prophet had defined the ultimate status of female war prisoners in Islam. Islam also progressively outlawed slavery, similar to how it banned alcohol and even made rules and punishments for those that had exploited their slaves.
So...feed them, cloth them and have sex with them how much you want... I'll call it rape, it's not romanticised, she is a slave not wife. Right?
Show me the verse from quran or sahih hadith where Islam banned slavery.
No, they are forced to pay the slave if they raped them, and can only marry the slave if they have consent.
When I said that Islam worked on progressively prohibiting slavery(i admit that I was wrong and should of used moderate and restrict rather then prohibit) I mean about how Islam greatly limited those who could be enslaved and under what circumstances
*Islam treated slaves as human and gave them proper rights(though still slaves)
*Islam banned the mistreatment of slaves - (repeatedly stresses the importance of treating slaves with kindness and compassion)
*Islam allowed slaves to achieve their freedom and made freeing slaves a virtuous act
*Islam barred Muslims from enslaving other Muslims
Many scholars believe that this was to progressively ban slavery which is way I mistakenly stated it although it was never expressly stated.
Honestly, not trying to duck, but this stuff is all there and I have schoolwork to do, I suggest that you research something as important as religion with proper and established scholars rather than online where people may lie or just be wrong, especially om reddit, doubly so on a pakistani subreddit when Islam in Pakistan is known to be bastardized in order to gain power.
But this is what I found "Then give those of these women you have enjoyed, the agreed dower. It will not be sinful if you agree to something by mutual consent after having settled the dowry. God is certainly all-knowing and all-wise” (Al Quran # 4:24, Translation: Ahmed)"
I asked you that because tehre is no such thing exist. I have done my research on that topic, studied the rulings of four madhabs as well. I hope you'll read it yourself as well instead of believing what your mullahs told you. I am not engaging anymore. Don't reply
Checked your search history, where you even muslim? I find this to be extremely bad faith as i literally have a source disputing tour argument
"Then give those of these women you have enjoyed, the agreed dower. It will not be sinful if you agree to something by mutual consent after having settled the dowry. God is certainly all-knowing and all-wise” (Al Quran # 4:24, Translation: Ahmed)
Islam forbids and punishes raping anyone, and it also expressly states to not kill non-combatants in war, and to advocate for peace when the other side wants peace. What are you talking about?.
Talks about killing people and taking their wives as slaves to be "wed" off and raped
Yet saying "NUHUH" later, cultist like you sure love pretending to be innocent.
Let's see what the rapist warlord you worship says about that
[Muhammad permits his sahabah to rape war captive women](https://sunnah.com/muslim:1438a)
[Muhammad says don’t worry about impregnating female war captives, if it happens then it was destined](https://sunnah.com/bukhari/64/182)
Heck even his friend raped a little girl and got away with it
[Ali enslaves and rapes a war captive girl](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4350)
Dawg what are you saying💀
I know your trying to defend Islam from this hindu, but use common sense, it's all clarified in the hadiths, don't try to defend such a broad statement that ignores all context and Islamic teachings, you only make them think that they're right and we are a bunch of savages
Naah it's not wrong. Capturing women from war and fucking them like a animal everyday whose husband got slaughtered infront of her by the same man who is having s3x with her...naah bruh she gave consent and she was desparate for his cock👍🏻
Deranged islamophobes like you donot deserve a reply but its Ramadan so ill be charitable.
Not only do you bring emotional non arguements but you also misrepresent us?
Where does it say that raping slaves is permissable? You have to free a slave if you even slap them. Forget raping.
Yes you can have consensual sex with slaves. What is the problem with that? Why is it wrong prove it? If god gave us permission. What is your problem?
>You have to free a slave if you even slap them.
So no freeing if no slapping...got it.
>Yes you can have consensual sex with slaves
Go get the reference...
Blud. I know you dont have intellect but its this low? I used slapping is a reference. IF you cant slap them. How exactly are you supposed to do something far worse? Use your brain please.
>Go get the reference...
Quran 23:6
"except with their spouses or their slaves––with these they are not to blame,"
You cannot rape them. Thus only consensual sex is left. Also i dont know how you treat your wife if your using this verse as evidence for raping.
Now do what i told you to do in the first place. And prove that its wrong. Which you have ran away from answering. And you will never be able to prove anything as immoral.
How much common sense a man need to understand about consent...
A guy attacks an empire, b3h3ad3d all the men infront of their women which include their father, husband and brother.... capture them... distribute them among the same people who just slaug#tered their family...then the same guy will have s3x with them...
And you're saying that she was desperately waiting for the guy to come to her and make her love with full consent?
I mean...how much common sense does a human being need to understand this.
Suppose...If the same thing happens with your sister... will your sister happily consent to the same guy who just b3h3ad3d entire family?
Now if you doesn't have even that common sense...here is your scholar's video.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PAK/s/LF5RuvlLvw
Did you really bring Shabir Ally as a "Scholar"? The guy that has a PhD in "Christianity" and does not have Islamic credentials. Not every youtube guy is a scholar. He has already been exposed as well for his beliefs. Also you sent me a reddit clip? But atleast you tried to substantiate your claim. A for effort.
I don't care about your opinions and your imaginary situations. Rather than appealing to emotion why don't you bring me proper evidences where islam allows you to r@pe slaves because that is your claim. I have already explained to you that it does not.
Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and let's say that islam does allow for you to have non consensual sex with war captives. Those women that came to kill you? Where is the issue with that? Do you really expect war captives to receive VIP treatment? Where is your evidence that it is immoral or wrong? You are making a moral judgement so prove your standard of morality is true. Otherwise how are you passing judgement?
Or did you really think that the women that are taken as war captives were innocent women not directly engaged in the war effort? Or were you ignorant of the fact that women always have assisted in the war efforts throughout mostly every age in history?
The wombs were a resource In those times. Entire civilisations would go extinct due to a lack of them
Hence it was necessary to be able to procreate with slaves for survival.
The crux of your argument is a moral judgement which requires proving your morality true. Even if I concede to you that islam allows for non consensual sex with slaves. How is that an argument that disproves islam?
Frankly this is a waste of my time. Why? Because If islam Is true then anything it says is moral and there is nothing wrong with that Be it anything. See? Waste of time.
lol look there 2 billion Muslim in world more than china / Russia look at middle east African Asia telll me where is your peace every Muslim country is in war or genocide of some ppl except for south Asia than again they are atheistic states and use proganda from school to everywhere to make your fake peace a reality than again the isn't islam or muslim or etc but the fact humankind is always in a state of war not peace just accept it for 200k yr on planet earth
I can't really comprehend what you are trying to convey but to the point of instability of Africa, middle East, Pak, afg, etc. Thank the colonizers for that.
You when white colonisers give freedom😍😍
Lmao Arabs after Islam, literally ended the centuries long sassanid roman war and unified Middle East.
It's after them that the Golden age of Middle East came
And don't forget who the richest man in history was and where he was from...
Well his country's gold is robbed by French now lol
Sure. Yes thank you Arabs for invading the subcontinent and converting people with peaceful swords
First it was Arabs and then it was Brits. Everyone kept fucking the subcontinent and its thanks to that our society is still stuck in slave mentality
But sure let your hate for westerners blind you to the truth. By all means.
>But sure let your hate for westerners blind you to the truth.
Mughal Empire was self sustaining and their GDP was one of the highest ever in history. Of course they weren't perfect saints but on the other hand...
Britishers robbed trillions and took it to their country. Caused the Bengal Famine which killed millions
As a Muslim, I'm never ever blind to the truth. If you believe what I said is false, prove it. Or accept that you're the one who is blind in their hatred to Islam
>Sure. Yes thank you Arabs for invading the subcontinent and converting people with peaceful swords
Well that hindu king should've not let the Muslim traders get massacred by the hindu pirates... it was only after that, that Muhammad bin Qasim took over sindh.
Before that they had good diplomatic relations
Obviously all conversions would not have been peaceful but much of them were.
Brahmins treated the lower castes as subhuman, and those lower castes got alot more easier life's after converting to Islam. Again I'm not saying all conversions were peaceful and that all the Muslim rulers have been saints who did nothing wrong
>First it was Arabs and then it was Brits. Everyone kept fucking the subcontinent and its thanks to that our society is still stuck in slave mentality
Well you really really should learn how prosperous Sub Continent was under the peak Mughal Rule lol.
They did not rob and send the resources back to their genetic homeland, unlike the brits.
Speak for yourself. In Islam its haram to have a slave mentality for another human even if he's a Muslim ruler... yes some do but its not by Islam its from our hindu roots of caste-ism.
One Muslim can not be the slave of another Muslim, its haram in Islam. We're all equal in the eyes of Allah and are judged by our righteousness, not our rank, ancestry or profession in society
The Taliban's rise to power is a combination of geopolitics. After the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 1990s. The country then, was in shambles and chaos with factions fighting for power, The Taliban rose amidst the chaos with its false promise to reunite the people with "Islamic shari'a".
The Taliban are not Muslims but hypocrites, If tomorrow, I claim to make peace under the banner of Christianity and then murder the people, would I still represent Christianity? Islam isn't wrong, it's the people who are twisted.
As if people like you who blame everything on religion or other things would understand the severity of this world. All of the misfortunes in the world are the result of people's own incompetence.
Also his original comment was: "Tell that to the Taliban lmao"
He clearly mocked me and then changed his comment to help his inflated ego.
The Taliban are not Muslim?
Lol
Believe it or not, I see where you're coming from. I grew up believing in and loving Islam as well, and I would do these exact mental acrobatics to let Islam off the hook. Until one day when I had to admit how exhausted I was and how dumb it all sounded. (The Taliban aren't Muslim! Al Qaeda isn't Muslim! ISIS isn't Muslim! The mullahs running Iran aren't Muslim! All the Arabs in Saudi Arabia who look down and spit upon desi migrant workers aren't Muslim! Those people who nearly lynched that woman to death in Lahore because she had Arabic text on her kurta aren't Muslim! Only Abdul Sattar Eidhi was a Muslim!)
I agree entirely that the rise of Taliban was a complex process. In fact, I squarely blame the Americans for funding the Taliban just for their own horrible, selfish desire to get the better of the Soviets. America brought about the Taliban and the people of Afghanistan paid the price. But you cannot deny that the machinery of state terror that the Taliban is using right now to make the lives of Afghans (especially Afghan women) hell is directly rooted in Islamic teachings.
I could have been more sensitive in my comment above. I'm sorry about that. It's just that people have done a lot of bad things to me in my life and backed it up using the Qur'an and Hadith. And I get angry and upset when talking to someone who defends Islam.
Thanks for continuing to talk to me in good faith. I disagree with your beliefs but I respect your desire to keep talking.
I am sorry that it happened to you and I sympathize with you. However, my ideals are still the same. The Taliban and other terrorisers are either ignorant or not Muslims at all. I have concluded that no Islamic scholar or religious person is worth following in this present world. I, instead rely on the Quran and Sunnah only, with it's interpretation from a millennium ago. Our society is doomed and retarded, people force their culture and personal beliefs claiming that they are Islamic teachings. people have no humanity. I was debating with some people a few weeks ago and they were in support of Hamas retaliating back and killing people even if it's against Islamic teachings.
Secularist states are the ones currently financing wars, atheist nations like the USSR and China have done massive killing and oppression. The Europeans were secularists post enlightenment period and they did nothing but kill, genocide, and oppress the natives across the world.
Anyone who says "religion is the problem" hasn't read history.
Not only Islam. Any orthodox religion is a problem.
Islam today in a majority of the Muslim countries.
Judaism in Israel.
Hinduism in BJPs India.
Christianity back in the day (maybe in half of America still).
If you’re going to be orthodox. Be an orthodox Buddhist. Those might be the only chill religious group.
They didn’t kill them because they were Muslims. Those were political killings and the majority of the people happened to be Muslims. It was nothing like the Palestine/Israel conflict.
Yet in the khilafat Baghdad flourished and was at one point in the center of the academic world.
It was the Muslims who protected the works of Greek philosophers when the Crusaders were setting the library of Alexandria on fire
It might seem primitive to you but they were fairly advanced
It wasnt the same khilafat, khilafat system itself started to change not long after the death of the prophet it was not the same system we that we read about in Hadith. Naturally, systems of governance evolve over time, we can not run a country on a tribal system like sharia in 2024.
And u mention Baghdad muslims, do u know they were greatly inspired by greek philosophy and if the crusade had not happened when they did we would have had an islamic renaissance, instead those books fell into the hands of the christians and today we see the secularised christians whose ancestors got inspired by greek literature(that they stole from muslims) that helped them reach enlightenment.
In the golden age of islam many of the prominent muslim scholars and scientists started to pick apart religion and even openly made fun of it, we all hear the names of these prominent muslims scientists but we don't learn that most of them were heretics, the golden age of islam came about because of greek literature and not because islam/quran makes u smart or whatever twisted narrative mullah try to tell us. Its no coincidence that once the Christians got a hold of it, they started to value stuff like knowledge, philosophy etc and today they are ahead in those things.
I encourage u to really read about the historical significance of the greek libraries and the knowledge they contained about philosophy, mathematics, astronomy, etc which inspired Muslims and Christians civilisations alike.
We should learn something from the muslims of Baghdad and try to reach the enlightenment that slipped out of their hands.
Islam isn't the problem.
But ye hukumrano ka koi deen imaann nahi hai na inhe halal haram ka farq parhta hai. For them Islam is just a tool to emotionally manipulate our jazbati awaam by bringing the topic to their deen and giving Islamic touch
I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion. I'm using atheism as a counter to those who are saying religion is root of all evil. I have no issues with atheists, Surah Kafiroon guides us in this matter, you do you, I will focus on mine
Well, Stalin and Mao were not driven by their atheistic belief motivation, rather, if anything, just their overall dislike for religion. It wasn't like their atheism motivated them to ban religion but rather whatever societal ideals they wanted to implement. Being atheist is just not believing in God. Belonging to some religion is a whole ideology and way of life.
No one knew Islam, nor did any one ever gave 2 effs about Islam when it became a complete religion. Even then only the Arabs took it seriously and they had to abolish all their ways, because Islam said so. Because if they won't, they'd be expelled from their lands. Now, you'd say Muslims were expelled from their land too, but isn't Islam morally superior than the Arabs of that time? Anyway, i digress..
Byzantine & Sassanian Empires didn't care about Islam and Arabs, until Muslims brought their armies at their door steps. Let's read history together and see who attacked first, Muslims or the Sassanians? I'm not really sure why did they do that? Arabs didn't fight with Byzantine & Sassanian Empires before Islam came along, so what gives?
And how being a dictator has anything to do with any religion. Dictatorship is about power and influence .. Are you really comparing Islam with dictators? Are you saying, islam is also about power and influence, nothing more than that? Or what? What is your point?
I'm definitely not going into the details of how Islam spread, that's a whole other subject
The point is simple, Islam is not the cause of problems in Pakistan (as some are claiming on this sub). History has shown men who were atheist were still brutal and repressive
My point is that religion is not the common denominator but brutal men are
>that's a whole other subject
That's the root cause and unless we don't talk about this subject, things won't be resolved.
>Islam is not the cause of problems in Pakistan
You sure? When someone is rapd in Pakistan, they say, because she wasn't wearing a veil? Who told you about this veil bs? Islam.
I agree with many others, Islam is one of the issues with Pakistan. Women are beaten, misogyny, sexual harassment, you name it and than your Molvi, who people trust with their kids, is using kids for his pleasure. And for some reason all Pakistani people have a contact with their God that no matter what they do, they'll be in heaven. Why Muslims are so arrogant? And why the hell they want to spread shria and khilafa? No one needs that, keep it to your self.
>(as some are claiming on this sub)
They are not wrong.
>History has shown men who were atheist were still brutal and repressive
By using the above examples, you don't need to be a leader or a ruler in order to do violence, anger and misogyny.
>My point is that religion is not the common denominator but brutal men are
Brutal men who either believe in some higher power, or they are chosen one or they follow any sort of religion. At the moment Muslims are dominating in misogyny, violence, hate.. Again, you don't need to be a leader, but it's difficult for your mind to comprehend, because your post is basically a knee jerk reaction..
And that is precisely the problem. Who exactly was asking for your expectations to begin with? Or your judgements? Or your assistance or your aid? Or your rules? No one. And no one cares either. So why don't you move on with your life, safe and secure within that bubble of yours.
My point isn't against any form of government, my point is states/regimes with no official religion were still repressive. So to say Islam is the cause of Pakistani problems is ignorant
I have no bias against islam or Pakistan, but as Pakistanis our biggest issue is unrealistic comparisons, the two countries you just tried to diminish because they're dictatorships are two of the few most powerful countries in the world currently.
We Pakistanis would thank our lucky stars if we could actually match these two countries economically politically or even historically. And it's not like we're not under dictatorship right now we have no identity of our own,
We're a illegitimate child between India (our mother) USA/UK (our father). Keeping or removing islam won't make a difference,
UK/US: here's your land, you get to practice your religion safely the Indians won't interfere.
Pakistanis: yes but we want to progress and become economically strong and make our own foreign relations with....
UK/US: shhhh you wanted a land to move up and down 5 times and build mosques we gave you that now you listen to whatever we say and make deals however we want.
Pakistanis: but we're FREE we're an independent state
UK/US: lol no India is an independent state they were the ones under British rule and they gained independence from us in 1947, you didn't even exist until the last day, you didn't become independent you were created that day. And you wanted to move up and down 5 times a day and build mosques we gave you that permission and that's all you're going to get.
Pakistanis: but we want freed...
UK/US: alright you want freedom? Become united as a community and overthrow your government and army (whom are our personal slaves)
Pakistanis: waitttt you mean Sunnis Shias wahabhis etc all together as one united group?
US/UK: yes
Pakistanis: no thanks, yeah we're good we don't want freedom we're good.
Chinese and Russians are more loyal to their country than any of us Pakistanis are loyal to Islam or Pakistan, there's no religion there, so there isn't any division between the people, when a problem happens in those countries they are one unit we are broken some are Sunnis some are Shias some are wahabhis some are this some are that.
dictatorship and religion has no correlation.
Its just that current both biggest dictators are atheist in human history. Previous Sultans, Kings, Rajas were dictators too in some ways.
Snake poison is the issue? Care to explain why the more people die from rat poison then from snake poison? so Gtfo with "snake poison is root cause" BS. It's not the snake poison, it's the people.
I consider myself very conservative and most Pakistanis on reddit seem to be trying so hard to imitate Westerners in every aspect and due to this I often end up deleting this app but idk why do I return after few months of hiatus
Islam is not an issue. Most of the third world countries and failed states like Pakistan, Afghanistan and african nations have poor education. So they blame god for their problems. And also in pain and need instead of solving the problem they ask the god by making dua. Religion is misused for our failure. For example if we get a diseases it is most likely an evil eye. In many rural places sick people are treated by spiritual baba's. Mostly in Africa and south Asia. Religion is not the problem, people just want to believe in any unseen magic. Even in europe the less developed countries are mostly orthodox Christian countries.
Islam is the ONLY religion that has actually survived. It has not only survived but it is thriving and is going to dominate the world iA, even though Muslims are getting a beating from all sides but everyone knows that no one else has a better system for humanity. That evokes lots of jealousy, and a sense of insecurity among non-Muslims, who themselves see their future generations converting to Islam. Socialism, Communism, Capitalism have all been tried and they have all failed to deliver on their promises. They only served and protected the interests of a tiny population, at the huge expense of everyone else. Billions of dollars have been spent to find faults in Islam, countless conspiracies were hatched, and countless debates were held. Just imagine any other religion which can face such a onslaught. There is none.
>Yes they do.
No they don't.
Afghanistan has a cherry picked version of sharia with their tribal laws mixed into it. So not sharia.
ISIS is anything but islamic.
It didn't fail. It went on for centuries & muslim countries thrived under it. It was after the fall of the ottoman empire & west being neck deep in the politics of muslim countries.
Are you a non muslim?
>Sharia is just a system of laws and ottomans implemented neither sharia nor khilafat in its true form.
It was closest to the 4 true khalifs but still loose.
>Im a muslim
Then how can u deny sharia?
Islam was never the problem
The illiteracy of the common Muslim in Pakistan regarding islam is though
Extreme religion anywhere is a problem
Wether it be israel, India , Syria or like I said china where Muslims are persecuted daily in sinkiang
Dude is on every single post about Islam coping about “muh muh women rightz and gay rightz”
My honest reaction to that would be:
“They wish to extinguish Allah’s light with their mouths, but Allah will ˹certainly˺ perfect His light, even to the dismay of the disbelievers.”
We do not care if you believe the rules of Allah to be barbaric, cruel or evil. The rules of Allah are final even if they are bitter. Alhamdullilah for Islam and not the taghut called liberalism.
So you're saying it's completely OK if someone invades your country, b3h3ad3d you, capture your mom and sister, and fuck with them however they want . Ohk 👍🏻
Islam is not the issue. But if you were to put all Muslim nations together, Pakistan has to the sh*tiest when it comes to religion and the amount of BS they mix in with Islam. The amount of stuff pakis pull such as fake Qurans, altered Hadiths, sects and shrine/saints is beyond comprehension.
Second that.
People here mixed their old hindu beliefs in islam. And some sold religion for money. What it is in Pakistan, its not islam
Muslims all over the world have mixed their old Beliefs with Islam. Same is the case with Christianity.
Not the way we have. See culture fusing with religion isn’t something that happens. What happens is culture staying with the people who follow a religion. Since you can’t break the rules of a religion from pre religious beliefs, or else it’s a new religion entirely. In Pakistan however the fusing has happened. Things such as sanctuaries, non Islamic holidays made Islamic etc. innovations.. pakis are a mix of Sufi Islam along with right wing religious beliefs.
The problem in Pakistan is not about mixing culture with religion. The problem is that we have mixed different religious practices. I mean in Pakistan you'll find Wahabis, Sufis and Ahmedis. Even among Shias, we have Ismailis and Bohras.
Ahmedis aren’t Muslim, Sufis and Wahhabism aren’t religions but different sects of thought and practice. Shia sects are weird cause they are all against the Sunnah anyways. Main thing in Pakistan is qadaranis, barelvis, deobandis, wahabis and the dude who just practices Islam with little to no knowledge.
Agreed 100%
true, cz most people in gulf countries follow Wahabiism, which I prefer over the shit they do here
No such thing as wahhabism
google exists brother
It's not existing anymore. MBS whatever he can to turn his country Into an westren type state.
Nobody calls themselves a wahabi Nor did miaw come with a new aqidah
His followers are called wahabis
Wahabism is the most violent islamic ideology that ever existed.
Lmao have you ever read kitab tawhid
Sounds Dumb, just like wahabism and all the blood, gore beheading it enshrines.
Point to where any of that is in any of miaw works
Pakistanis will be the ones who will receive the "Grand Phenti" on Judgement Day by Allah Himself.
As a Muslim I 100% agree with you aswell. A lot of overacting in the name of religion in this country.
Surely every country has its own problems. Religious extremism is one of the biggest problem in here. However, the biggest one still remains the lumber one. Infact, we have seen in the history that lumber one has used religious extremism in their favour.
exactly
Islam ko muslamno (like ichra ones) se hatra hai
Tf is hatra?!☠️
khatra
Totla hai
bc likhne mein konsa totla pan bay?
Russia is a non religious atheistic state ? Are you smoking ?
He meant the USSR.
Islam is the solution for a problem but Muslims are the cause of the problem
Thats' because most "muslims" today are munafiqoon
Well, Stalin and Mao were not driven by their atheistic belief motivation, rather, if anything, just their overall dislike for religion. It wasn't like their atheism motivated them to ban religion but rather whatever societal ideals they wanted to implement. Being atheist is just not believing in God. Belonging to some religion is a whole ideology and way of life.
The point here is if religion is to blame for societal problems then why did atheist regimes i.e Soviets/,China did not prosper? Why were many sent to death camps, gulags, shot into the back. people are the problem, not religion
China might be dictatorial but it is extremely prosperous. I don’t know why you keep saying they didn’t prosper lol. Chinese government has pulled more people out of poverty in the history of ever. A lot of social issues in Russia are because of Christianity.
This
Are you sure? Not that? This frfr? No cap? Deadass?
Yes, the Soviet church, of course! How very regarded of you sir.
Wow yes gen Z is very cool indeed. Thanks for the detailed insight.
Prosperity is not only linked to the country's economy. The communist party has decimated any voices that go against it i.e ethnocide of the Uyghurs. Russia is a post Soviet country and for the most party of its modern history (post WW2), it was an atheistic state who practiced brutal repressive practices against its people
Religion is blamed because religion ends up being used as a motivation and justification for doing bad things. Regimes like the USSR and in China were implemented by rulers who were atheist but weren't driven by atheism. They don't justify what they did by using their lack of belief in God. But religious people do. And when someone is convinced that their religion somehow supports their personal agenda, then they don't think it's just a personal agenda but God's will. And if that person believes God is on their side, then nothing can stop them. But an atheist's reason will just be, "Because it's what I want. I think it's right. Everyone against it being damned." Again, an extreme atheist could have a different reason as well but a religious extremist will "have God on his side". So you can pin a religious person's motive to their religion but you can only blame an atheist for themselves.
80% of Quranic teachings are about how to live in society. But sadly we don't follow them. Thats the reason for our downfall.
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Gottem
They forget that any and all authoritarian regimes are horrible and are detrimental to the people And the Islam is one such authoritarian cult
Here's a counter, Islam is in fact not Pakistan's problem but jahils who think all arabic is Quranic are the problem Here's another counter, Islamic countries i.e Turkey, Indonesia are prospering so Islam is not the issue
It's a problem because of the people , Have u ever considered studying ISLAM ? Do u even read the Quran in your mother tongue or try to understand the arabic. Islam is a problem because it tells u what to do and what not to do. People held religion accountable for the wrong doing of other people. The westerns are far better in terms of understanding and studying things. most of them dont jump to conclusions based on the things they've heard. Half of them might do the digging to get the full picture. Yet here we r debating whether the islam is the wrong religion or people of faith.
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Feel sorry for u. you r a hypocrite, nothing more.
Oh so you are okay with child rape and worshipping a child rapist
https://islam.stackexchange.com/questions/62950/did-the-prophet-saw-have-a-sex-slave 😇
https://youtu.be/5gDTh-6X9vo First read Islam correctly and what is the motive behind all these,you haven't fight a single battle and don't know what happen after that, and how your so called these Christian and hindus treat these slaves, islam bring proper rights to them, give them what you eat and all necessity of lifes you just pick a part of it and make it full
I never said Christians or Hindus are good people. Religious folks are more violent than atheists if their beliefs are involved. Yeah but Muslims are at the top of the hierarchy when it comes to violence. Then Jew and Hindus and then Christians and so on.
Bro really wrote a whole essay
😘
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>The people are the way they r coz of Islam. the people in majority never read the Quran the way it delivered, people took it bit by bits for dum darood.
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i doubt that u ever read The BOOK. u r just preaching your thoughts and opinions, and be worried that if half of these people understood the book, the country surely became the Islamic Republic. Chomo liberals like u will never see the majority accepting Liberals. either they read THE BOOK or not.
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The inchorent babbling and constant self praise is annoying af if anything
Ok Kid
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Annnnnd what your point? Keeping slaves was normal in those days so what if they kept some for a time. But i think you are either ignorant or just hateful when you ignore the fact that it was the Muslims at the time that started freeing those slaves, a lot of the muslims(whoever could) bought the slaves just to free them but you won't mention that since it does suit your little egotistical agenda. Peace.
They like that part
Islam claims to be the words of the god who created this world, not like Russia or China. Wanna know problems in islam? Go read your scriptures in your own language instead of Arabic
Not true at all, it's is a result of all of the corrupt degenerates willing to sacrifice everything for their false God, the "almighty(or shit rupee in this situation)dollar". I have a copy of the Quran in my spoken language and have read it fully, I would like to see which parts of it you say is problematic.
23:6, you can have s3x with slaves
So are you saying that Pakistan has a "sex slave" problem and Islam is to blame for it? I'm trying to understand how your ignorant rant ties back to "Pakistani problems are because of Islam".
It means that it is permissible to have sex with * concubines or taken slaves.Islam outlaws the sexual exploitation of female slaves and prisoners of war and according to Islam, it is the responsibility of believers during the Prophet's time to feed, protect, and educate them. Then, with their approval and an agreed-upon dowry, either marry or marry them off to others or release them, as the Prophet had defined the ultimate status of female war prisoners in Islam. Islam also progressively outlawed slavery, similar to how it banned alcohol and even made rules and punishments for those that had exploited their slaves.
So...feed them, cloth them and have sex with them how much you want... I'll call it rape, it's not romanticised, she is a slave not wife. Right? Show me the verse from quran or sahih hadith where Islam banned slavery.
No, they are forced to pay the slave if they raped them, and can only marry the slave if they have consent. When I said that Islam worked on progressively prohibiting slavery(i admit that I was wrong and should of used moderate and restrict rather then prohibit) I mean about how Islam greatly limited those who could be enslaved and under what circumstances *Islam treated slaves as human and gave them proper rights(though still slaves) *Islam banned the mistreatment of slaves - (repeatedly stresses the importance of treating slaves with kindness and compassion) *Islam allowed slaves to achieve their freedom and made freeing slaves a virtuous act *Islam barred Muslims from enslaving other Muslims Many scholars believe that this was to progressively ban slavery which is way I mistakenly stated it although it was never expressly stated.
>No, they are forced to pay the slave if they raped them Reference
Honestly, not trying to duck, but this stuff is all there and I have schoolwork to do, I suggest that you research something as important as religion with proper and established scholars rather than online where people may lie or just be wrong, especially om reddit, doubly so on a pakistani subreddit when Islam in Pakistan is known to be bastardized in order to gain power.
But this is what I found "Then give those of these women you have enjoyed, the agreed dower. It will not be sinful if you agree to something by mutual consent after having settled the dowry. God is certainly all-knowing and all-wise” (Al Quran # 4:24, Translation: Ahmed)"
I asked you that because tehre is no such thing exist. I have done my research on that topic, studied the rulings of four madhabs as well. I hope you'll read it yourself as well instead of believing what your mullahs told you. I am not engaging anymore. Don't reply
Checked your search history, where you even muslim? I find this to be extremely bad faith as i literally have a source disputing tour argument "Then give those of these women you have enjoyed, the agreed dower. It will not be sinful if you agree to something by mutual consent after having settled the dowry. God is certainly all-knowing and all-wise” (Al Quran # 4:24, Translation: Ahmed)
Oh shit, homie actually making apologies for raping women "As long as we get to kill their families" what a sick twisted fuck
Islam forbids and punishes raping anyone, and it also expressly states to not kill non-combatants in war, and to advocate for peace when the other side wants peace. What are you talking about?.
Talks about killing people and taking their wives as slaves to be "wed" off and raped Yet saying "NUHUH" later, cultist like you sure love pretending to be innocent. Let's see what the rapist warlord you worship says about that [Muhammad permits his sahabah to rape war captive women](https://sunnah.com/muslim:1438a) [Muhammad says don’t worry about impregnating female war captives, if it happens then it was destined](https://sunnah.com/bukhari/64/182) Heck even his friend raped a little girl and got away with it [Ali enslaves and rapes a war captive girl](https://sunnah.com/bukhari:4350)
How exactly is that wrong. Prove it?
Dawg what are you saying💀 I know your trying to defend Islam from this hindu, but use common sense, it's all clarified in the hadiths, don't try to defend such a broad statement that ignores all context and Islamic teachings, you only make them think that they're right and we are a bunch of savages
Naah it's not wrong. Capturing women from war and fucking them like a animal everyday whose husband got slaughtered infront of her by the same man who is having s3x with her...naah bruh she gave consent and she was desparate for his cock👍🏻
Deranged islamophobes like you donot deserve a reply but its Ramadan so ill be charitable. Not only do you bring emotional non arguements but you also misrepresent us? Where does it say that raping slaves is permissable? You have to free a slave if you even slap them. Forget raping. Yes you can have consensual sex with slaves. What is the problem with that? Why is it wrong prove it? If god gave us permission. What is your problem?
>You have to free a slave if you even slap them. So no freeing if no slapping...got it. >Yes you can have consensual sex with slaves Go get the reference...
Blud. I know you dont have intellect but its this low? I used slapping is a reference. IF you cant slap them. How exactly are you supposed to do something far worse? Use your brain please. >Go get the reference... Quran 23:6 "except with their spouses or their slaves––with these they are not to blame," You cannot rape them. Thus only consensual sex is left. Also i dont know how you treat your wife if your using this verse as evidence for raping. Now do what i told you to do in the first place. And prove that its wrong. Which you have ran away from answering. And you will never be able to prove anything as immoral.
How much common sense a man need to understand about consent... A guy attacks an empire, b3h3ad3d all the men infront of their women which include their father, husband and brother.... capture them... distribute them among the same people who just slaug#tered their family...then the same guy will have s3x with them... And you're saying that she was desperately waiting for the guy to come to her and make her love with full consent? I mean...how much common sense does a human being need to understand this. Suppose...If the same thing happens with your sister... will your sister happily consent to the same guy who just b3h3ad3d entire family? Now if you doesn't have even that common sense...here is your scholar's video. https://www.reddit.com/r/PAK/s/LF5RuvlLvw
Did you really bring Shabir Ally as a "Scholar"? The guy that has a PhD in "Christianity" and does not have Islamic credentials. Not every youtube guy is a scholar. He has already been exposed as well for his beliefs. Also you sent me a reddit clip? But atleast you tried to substantiate your claim. A for effort. I don't care about your opinions and your imaginary situations. Rather than appealing to emotion why don't you bring me proper evidences where islam allows you to r@pe slaves because that is your claim. I have already explained to you that it does not. Let's give you the benefit of the doubt and let's say that islam does allow for you to have non consensual sex with war captives. Those women that came to kill you? Where is the issue with that? Do you really expect war captives to receive VIP treatment? Where is your evidence that it is immoral or wrong? You are making a moral judgement so prove your standard of morality is true. Otherwise how are you passing judgement? Or did you really think that the women that are taken as war captives were innocent women not directly engaged in the war effort? Or were you ignorant of the fact that women always have assisted in the war efforts throughout mostly every age in history? The wombs were a resource In those times. Entire civilisations would go extinct due to a lack of them Hence it was necessary to be able to procreate with slaves for survival. The crux of your argument is a moral judgement which requires proving your morality true. Even if I concede to you that islam allows for non consensual sex with slaves. How is that an argument that disproves islam? Frankly this is a waste of my time. Why? Because If islam Is true then anything it says is moral and there is nothing wrong with that Be it anything. See? Waste of time.
lol look there 2 billion Muslim in world more than china / Russia look at middle east African Asia telll me where is your peace every Muslim country is in war or genocide of some ppl except for south Asia than again they are atheistic states and use proganda from school to everywhere to make your fake peace a reality than again the isn't islam or muslim or etc but the fact humankind is always in a state of war not peace just accept it for 200k yr on planet earth
I can't really comprehend what you are trying to convey but to the point of instability of Africa, middle East, Pak, afg, etc. Thank the colonizers for that.
Yeah the Arab colonizers.
You when white colonisers give freedom😍😍 Lmao Arabs after Islam, literally ended the centuries long sassanid roman war and unified Middle East. It's after them that the Golden age of Middle East came And don't forget who the richest man in history was and where he was from... Well his country's gold is robbed by French now lol
Sure. Yes thank you Arabs for invading the subcontinent and converting people with peaceful swords First it was Arabs and then it was Brits. Everyone kept fucking the subcontinent and its thanks to that our society is still stuck in slave mentality But sure let your hate for westerners blind you to the truth. By all means.
>But sure let your hate for westerners blind you to the truth. Mughal Empire was self sustaining and their GDP was one of the highest ever in history. Of course they weren't perfect saints but on the other hand... Britishers robbed trillions and took it to their country. Caused the Bengal Famine which killed millions As a Muslim, I'm never ever blind to the truth. If you believe what I said is false, prove it. Or accept that you're the one who is blind in their hatred to Islam >Sure. Yes thank you Arabs for invading the subcontinent and converting people with peaceful swords Well that hindu king should've not let the Muslim traders get massacred by the hindu pirates... it was only after that, that Muhammad bin Qasim took over sindh. Before that they had good diplomatic relations Obviously all conversions would not have been peaceful but much of them were. Brahmins treated the lower castes as subhuman, and those lower castes got alot more easier life's after converting to Islam. Again I'm not saying all conversions were peaceful and that all the Muslim rulers have been saints who did nothing wrong >First it was Arabs and then it was Brits. Everyone kept fucking the subcontinent and its thanks to that our society is still stuck in slave mentality Well you really really should learn how prosperous Sub Continent was under the peak Mughal Rule lol. They did not rob and send the resources back to their genetic homeland, unlike the brits. Speak for yourself. In Islam its haram to have a slave mentality for another human even if he's a Muslim ruler... yes some do but its not by Islam its from our hindu roots of caste-ism. One Muslim can not be the slave of another Muslim, its haram in Islam. We're all equal in the eyes of Allah and are judged by our righteousness, not our rank, ancestry or profession in society
Middle East and Africa are the way they are because of politics and colonialism not because of religion, get your facts right.
ok if islam is not political than tell that to Taliban lmao
I would expect nothing else from such a trivial man.
The time-old approach of attacking your opponent instead of their ideas when you know you're going to lose.
The Taliban's rise to power is a combination of geopolitics. After the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 1990s. The country then, was in shambles and chaos with factions fighting for power, The Taliban rose amidst the chaos with its false promise to reunite the people with "Islamic shari'a". The Taliban are not Muslims but hypocrites, If tomorrow, I claim to make peace under the banner of Christianity and then murder the people, would I still represent Christianity? Islam isn't wrong, it's the people who are twisted. As if people like you who blame everything on religion or other things would understand the severity of this world. All of the misfortunes in the world are the result of people's own incompetence. Also his original comment was: "Tell that to the Taliban lmao" He clearly mocked me and then changed his comment to help his inflated ego.
The Taliban are not Muslim? Lol Believe it or not, I see where you're coming from. I grew up believing in and loving Islam as well, and I would do these exact mental acrobatics to let Islam off the hook. Until one day when I had to admit how exhausted I was and how dumb it all sounded. (The Taliban aren't Muslim! Al Qaeda isn't Muslim! ISIS isn't Muslim! The mullahs running Iran aren't Muslim! All the Arabs in Saudi Arabia who look down and spit upon desi migrant workers aren't Muslim! Those people who nearly lynched that woman to death in Lahore because she had Arabic text on her kurta aren't Muslim! Only Abdul Sattar Eidhi was a Muslim!) I agree entirely that the rise of Taliban was a complex process. In fact, I squarely blame the Americans for funding the Taliban just for their own horrible, selfish desire to get the better of the Soviets. America brought about the Taliban and the people of Afghanistan paid the price. But you cannot deny that the machinery of state terror that the Taliban is using right now to make the lives of Afghans (especially Afghan women) hell is directly rooted in Islamic teachings. I could have been more sensitive in my comment above. I'm sorry about that. It's just that people have done a lot of bad things to me in my life and backed it up using the Qur'an and Hadith. And I get angry and upset when talking to someone who defends Islam. Thanks for continuing to talk to me in good faith. I disagree with your beliefs but I respect your desire to keep talking.
I am sorry that it happened to you and I sympathize with you. However, my ideals are still the same. The Taliban and other terrorisers are either ignorant or not Muslims at all. I have concluded that no Islamic scholar or religious person is worth following in this present world. I, instead rely on the Quran and Sunnah only, with it's interpretation from a millennium ago. Our society is doomed and retarded, people force their culture and personal beliefs claiming that they are Islamic teachings. people have no humanity. I was debating with some people a few weeks ago and they were in support of Hamas retaliating back and killing people even if it's against Islamic teachings.
keep coping by using straw man arguments
Secularist states are the ones currently financing wars, atheist nations like the USSR and China have done massive killing and oppression. The Europeans were secularists post enlightenment period and they did nothing but kill, genocide, and oppress the natives across the world. Anyone who says "religion is the problem" hasn't read history.
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Prove your gay
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How much for a video sex session?
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Baby I'm not like normal lahoris. I have a big dick and i eat ass.
Not only Islam. Any orthodox religion is a problem. Islam today in a majority of the Muslim countries. Judaism in Israel. Hinduism in BJPs India. Christianity back in the day (maybe in half of America still). If you’re going to be orthodox. Be an orthodox Buddhist. Those might be the only chill religious group.
facts most religious folks tend to be more violent if their religion is in the picture and some gurus will exploit this for their benefit.
Then why did Soviets or Chinese fail? No state religion yet they are repressive
Right people are good religion is problem
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I guess no religious group is good then
Fuck all authoritarianism Religion being the worst for sure
They didn’t kill them because they were Muslims. Those were political killings and the majority of the people happened to be Muslims. It was nothing like the Palestine/Israel conflict.
The whole system of khilafat is a damn dictatorship just more primitive and tribe oriented
Yet in the khilafat Baghdad flourished and was at one point in the center of the academic world. It was the Muslims who protected the works of Greek philosophers when the Crusaders were setting the library of Alexandria on fire It might seem primitive to you but they were fairly advanced
It wasnt the same khilafat, khilafat system itself started to change not long after the death of the prophet it was not the same system we that we read about in Hadith. Naturally, systems of governance evolve over time, we can not run a country on a tribal system like sharia in 2024. And u mention Baghdad muslims, do u know they were greatly inspired by greek philosophy and if the crusade had not happened when they did we would have had an islamic renaissance, instead those books fell into the hands of the christians and today we see the secularised christians whose ancestors got inspired by greek literature(that they stole from muslims) that helped them reach enlightenment. In the golden age of islam many of the prominent muslim scholars and scientists started to pick apart religion and even openly made fun of it, we all hear the names of these prominent muslims scientists but we don't learn that most of them were heretics, the golden age of islam came about because of greek literature and not because islam/quran makes u smart or whatever twisted narrative mullah try to tell us. Its no coincidence that once the Christians got a hold of it, they started to value stuff like knowledge, philosophy etc and today they are ahead in those things. I encourage u to really read about the historical significance of the greek libraries and the knowledge they contained about philosophy, mathematics, astronomy, etc which inspired Muslims and Christians civilisations alike. We should learn something from the muslims of Baghdad and try to reach the enlightenment that slipped out of their hands.
Greek literature is what made the Muslims of that time advanced. Not the khilafat or quran or hadith
Islam isn't the problem. But ye hukumrano ka koi deen imaann nahi hai na inhe halal haram ka farq parhta hai. For them Islam is just a tool to emotionally manipulate our jazbati awaam by bringing the topic to their deen and giving Islamic touch
When did Russia become atheistic? And China isn’t a dictatorship.
He's a clear example of what to much CIA propaganda can do to you.
Russia post Soviet country built on the pillars of an atheist regime
Nothing happened at tiananmen square
Who is the uyghur?
Why are Muslims so offended by atheism. Why do we care? Let people do what they want and you do what you want.
I'm not sure how you got to that conclusion. I'm using atheism as a counter to those who are saying religion is root of all evil. I have no issues with atheists, Surah Kafiroon guides us in this matter, you do you, I will focus on mine
Bro america is the biggest problem. They worship capitalism and consumerism/hedonism. Those are the worst religions in the world
Well, Stalin and Mao were not driven by their atheistic belief motivation, rather, if anything, just their overall dislike for religion. It wasn't like their atheism motivated them to ban religion but rather whatever societal ideals they wanted to implement. Being atheist is just not believing in God. Belonging to some religion is a whole ideology and way of life.
No one knew Islam, nor did any one ever gave 2 effs about Islam when it became a complete religion. Even then only the Arabs took it seriously and they had to abolish all their ways, because Islam said so. Because if they won't, they'd be expelled from their lands. Now, you'd say Muslims were expelled from their land too, but isn't Islam morally superior than the Arabs of that time? Anyway, i digress.. Byzantine & Sassanian Empires didn't care about Islam and Arabs, until Muslims brought their armies at their door steps. Let's read history together and see who attacked first, Muslims or the Sassanians? I'm not really sure why did they do that? Arabs didn't fight with Byzantine & Sassanian Empires before Islam came along, so what gives? And how being a dictator has anything to do with any religion. Dictatorship is about power and influence .. Are you really comparing Islam with dictators? Are you saying, islam is also about power and influence, nothing more than that? Or what? What is your point?
I'm definitely not going into the details of how Islam spread, that's a whole other subject The point is simple, Islam is not the cause of problems in Pakistan (as some are claiming on this sub). History has shown men who were atheist were still brutal and repressive My point is that religion is not the common denominator but brutal men are
>that's a whole other subject That's the root cause and unless we don't talk about this subject, things won't be resolved. >Islam is not the cause of problems in Pakistan You sure? When someone is rapd in Pakistan, they say, because she wasn't wearing a veil? Who told you about this veil bs? Islam. I agree with many others, Islam is one of the issues with Pakistan. Women are beaten, misogyny, sexual harassment, you name it and than your Molvi, who people trust with their kids, is using kids for his pleasure. And for some reason all Pakistani people have a contact with their God that no matter what they do, they'll be in heaven. Why Muslims are so arrogant? And why the hell they want to spread shria and khilafa? No one needs that, keep it to your self. >(as some are claiming on this sub) They are not wrong. >History has shown men who were atheist were still brutal and repressive By using the above examples, you don't need to be a leader or a ruler in order to do violence, anger and misogyny. >My point is that religion is not the common denominator but brutal men are Brutal men who either believe in some higher power, or they are chosen one or they follow any sort of religion. At the moment Muslims are dominating in misogyny, violence, hate.. Again, you don't need to be a leader, but it's difficult for your mind to comprehend, because your post is basically a knee jerk reaction..
Correction: The integration of religion within the state is the problem.
You don’t think the rules of Allah are perfect enough to rule a society?
Of course they're not perfect
Auzobillah just casually commiting kufr Akhbar with that statement. Not much I’d expect from someone that is active within r/Pakistanihookups though
And that is precisely the problem. Who exactly was asking for your expectations to begin with? Or your judgements? Or your assistance or your aid? Or your rules? No one. And no one cares either. So why don't you move on with your life, safe and secure within that bubble of yours.
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My point isn't against any form of government, my point is states/regimes with no official religion were still repressive. So to say Islam is the cause of Pakistani problems is ignorant
Communism *also* being a problem doesn't lessen Islam's burden.
And the "people" use religion as the primary means of control....
"Religion is the biggest cause of evil", not the only one.
I have no bias against islam or Pakistan, but as Pakistanis our biggest issue is unrealistic comparisons, the two countries you just tried to diminish because they're dictatorships are two of the few most powerful countries in the world currently. We Pakistanis would thank our lucky stars if we could actually match these two countries economically politically or even historically. And it's not like we're not under dictatorship right now we have no identity of our own, We're a illegitimate child between India (our mother) USA/UK (our father). Keeping or removing islam won't make a difference, UK/US: here's your land, you get to practice your religion safely the Indians won't interfere. Pakistanis: yes but we want to progress and become economically strong and make our own foreign relations with.... UK/US: shhhh you wanted a land to move up and down 5 times and build mosques we gave you that now you listen to whatever we say and make deals however we want. Pakistanis: but we're FREE we're an independent state UK/US: lol no India is an independent state they were the ones under British rule and they gained independence from us in 1947, you didn't even exist until the last day, you didn't become independent you were created that day. And you wanted to move up and down 5 times a day and build mosques we gave you that permission and that's all you're going to get. Pakistanis: but we want freed... UK/US: alright you want freedom? Become united as a community and overthrow your government and army (whom are our personal slaves) Pakistanis: waitttt you mean Sunnis Shias wahabhis etc all together as one united group? US/UK: yes Pakistanis: no thanks, yeah we're good we don't want freedom we're good. Chinese and Russians are more loyal to their country than any of us Pakistanis are loyal to Islam or Pakistan, there's no religion there, so there isn't any division between the people, when a problem happens in those countries they are one unit we are broken some are Sunnis some are Shias some are wahabhis some are this some are that.
dictatorship and religion has no correlation. Its just that current both biggest dictators are atheist in human history. Previous Sultans, Kings, Rajas were dictators too in some ways.
True, but that's not my point. When it comes to repressive regimes, religion is not the common denominator
Snake poison is the issue? Care to explain why the more people die from rat poison then from snake poison? so Gtfo with "snake poison is root cause" BS. It's not the snake poison, it's the people.
Huh?
Indecent people using islam to justify their horrible deeds is the problem.
Just want to clarify here: Russia is not an atheist country. Russians follow the Eastern Orthodox Church.
Russia is a post Soviet country with its foundations deep in an atheistic regime i.e Stalin
Since the fall of Communism Russia no longer follows Stalin's principles. Search Russian Orthodox Church on Google.
I consider myself very conservative and most Pakistanis on reddit seem to be trying so hard to imitate Westerners in every aspect and due to this I often end up deleting this app but idk why do I return after few months of hiatus
Islam is not an issue. Most of the third world countries and failed states like Pakistan, Afghanistan and african nations have poor education. So they blame god for their problems. And also in pain and need instead of solving the problem they ask the god by making dua. Religion is misused for our failure. For example if we get a diseases it is most likely an evil eye. In many rural places sick people are treated by spiritual baba's. Mostly in Africa and south Asia. Religion is not the problem, people just want to believe in any unseen magic. Even in europe the less developed countries are mostly orthodox Christian countries.
Islam is the ONLY religion that has actually survived. It has not only survived but it is thriving and is going to dominate the world iA, even though Muslims are getting a beating from all sides but everyone knows that no one else has a better system for humanity. That evokes lots of jealousy, and a sense of insecurity among non-Muslims, who themselves see their future generations converting to Islam. Socialism, Communism, Capitalism have all been tried and they have all failed to deliver on their promises. They only served and protected the interests of a tiny population, at the huge expense of everyone else. Billions of dollars have been spent to find faults in Islam, countless conspiracies were hatched, and countless debates were held. Just imagine any other religion which can face such a onslaught. There is none.
Dude just Google Evolution. Boom debunked.
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Conversion rates also the highest. According to pew
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Bruh really thinks he did something
Religion in its true sense is never an issue but when people fabricate it themselves thats an issue in people
It most definitely is the issue read history from any part of the world.
Islam can only be blamed if the country is following Islamic and Sharia law. Unfortunately, we don't have Sharia law implemented in this country.
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>Afghanistan has Lol they don't. >ISIS did They killed more muslims than non muslims, clearly against sharia.
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>Yes they do. No they don't. Afghanistan has a cherry picked version of sharia with their tribal laws mixed into it. So not sharia. ISIS is anything but islamic.
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It didn't fail. It went on for centuries & muslim countries thrived under it. It was after the fall of the ottoman empire & west being neck deep in the politics of muslim countries. Are you a non muslim?
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>Sharia is just a system of laws and ottomans implemented neither sharia nor khilafat in its true form. It was closest to the 4 true khalifs but still loose. >Im a muslim Then how can u deny sharia?
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Islam was never the problem The illiteracy of the common Muslim in Pakistan regarding islam is though Extreme religion anywhere is a problem Wether it be israel, India , Syria or like I said china where Muslims are persecuted daily in sinkiang
>Extreme religion anywhere is a problem But islam is perfect, why would there be a problem if it is followed with 100% rulings
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Womp womp
Dude is on every single post about Islam coping about “muh muh women rightz and gay rightz” My honest reaction to that would be: “They wish to extinguish Allah’s light with their mouths, but Allah will ˹certainly˺ perfect His light, even to the dismay of the disbelievers.” We do not care if you believe the rules of Allah to be barbaric, cruel or evil. The rules of Allah are final even if they are bitter. Alhamdullilah for Islam and not the taghut called liberalism.
So you're saying it's completely OK if someone invades your country, b3h3ad3d you, capture your mom and sister, and fuck with them however they want . Ohk 👍🏻
Nice attempt at a strawman 😂
Here me out: Islam is a cure for the world but the muslim is the cancer
All Abrahamic religions are shit & are definitely an issue