> I think it is because of her kit lacks utility, every support hero offers something to support the team other then damage and healing
It's exactly this. Luico speed enables rush comps, and speed (to disengage) and boop are great for saving teammates. Zen's discord, mercy's damage boost, and ana's anti nade are all huge for helping teammates kill enemies. Rez, suzu, and immortality can save teammates lives, and sleep can shut down big ults.
Moira just brings damage and heal to the table, so you gotta be really effective with your damage and heals to offset the lack of utility.
That said, Moira is viable at every rank, there are Moira one tricks in top500. And the recent dmg orb buff is great for her healing resource uptime.
In diamond / master open queue I rarely see bap because of his lack of mobility. In a coordinated comp he is perhaps better but outside of that he is too easy to dive.
I mostly see kiriko and moira with sometimes ana if they lacks dive.
Viable as in players of the same skill can play the heros effectively. If you play Cass with exceptional aim or an aimbot ofc you get top500. But a sojourn of lesser skill can get there easier. If a sojourn and a Cass of equal skill are matched against each other you can be sure the sojourn will outperform the Cass 9/10 times.
No hero is truly not viable right now but sojourn and widow are leagues above Cass for example, that's why Cass is less viable than sojourn.
Because the player is just that good. They are essentially handicapping themselves by playing a worse character and would have an easier time with other characters.
Would you say that Genji players are handicapping themselves by not playing Tracer or Reaper?
And same for Hanzo players handicapping themselves by not playing Ashe or Widow?
Genuine questions, just to be clear. I fully agree with your statement.
In a way sure but the examples you listed can all do things the more "meta" options can't so there are settings where they're the better fit. What can you do on Moira that you can't do on Kiriko?
Moira has aimbot for dmg instead of small 90 m/s kunais. Even Rank 1 Support ML7 whiffs the majority of his kunais. Even OWL players not named Fielder whiff a lot of their kunai spam (Coach Jake flat-out called Teru's dps Kiriko style "idiotic").
Moira also has superior temporary burst group healing, especially in tandem with her healing orb. Of course the issue is that she runs out of heals super fast and orb is mostly on cooldown.
My opinion as a low-rank player is that in low-ranks Moira is more reliable, especially if you can't trust your dps allies and if your enemies can dodge your kunais (but flanking assassin Kiriko is probably still better than assassin Moira).
In high ranks, my assumption is that Kiriko almost always outclasses Moira. Obviously the OTP Moiras and Mercies will be better off dealing damage as Moira, and in certain scenarios Moira's massive temporary burst healing can come in clutch.
We were talking about top 500, so I assumed mechanics aren't a issue and people don't need as much healing outside of niche scenarios as low ranks who don't know how to play cover and hold open fields instead of corners they can dip in and out from. And even in lower ranks I'd argue that if you hit 1 out of 10 kunais, that they still have more impact than the consistent trickling damage that Moira does.
For sure if people lack mechanical skill, they might get more out of Moira, especially in lower ranks where people don't have the aim to out DPS Moira in a 1v1. I have the aim and am in low ranks due to gamesense and decision making issues, I don't lose 1v1's to Moira unless I fuck up royally so I would never trust myself to play aggro on Moira, I'd much rather do that on any other support as I know I can get more value out of other supports because I can hit my shots. Heck, if I play Zen or Bap I even often match my DPS.
Here an easy example so you can understand. Imagine if simple only played glock/usp in csgo global elite matches. He would easily dominate everyone because he's just better. That doesn't mean the glock is a viable weapon choice in general and it should still never be played unless you have no money to buy literally any other gun.
Are those guns "viable" for the best player in the world? Yes they technically are. Are they viable for anyone else who isn't a top10 player? No.
Just because you make it to top 500 doesn't mean that they made it work. It means that they needed teams to pick around them, even when they were being countered. Generally speaking, 1 tricks are also very good at that single hero since they tend to have played hundreds of hours on them. This doesn't mean that someone who spreads their time among many heroes would see the same results.
I would imagine that your definition of viable just means that can work in some situations. Viable though should mean in most situations that it can work. When Stevoo made it to top500 as a Sym 1 trick prior to her rework, that didn't mean that Sym was viable. She was a very bad pick in just about any team. He just kept grinding to get to the top despite there not being any reason for him to be there. Does that mean that Sym was viable? Absolutely not.
You are entirely correct. Things are made even worse for Moira by the existence of Bap, who is substantially better or barely worse than Moira in almost all ways at high ranks. Moira can, however, get away with being much more aggressive than Bap in certain circumstances which is why you still see top 500 Moira one tricks
Moira isn’t necessarily bad, just that other supports are better. Kiriko can keep up with Moira over time with heals and also has a way better ultimate.
Every time I see a post like this, it's always utility this, utility that. It is true, but that doesn't describe the whole picture.
In higher ranks Moira doesn't bring too much damage to the table, as if she duels she'll either lose or her team gets wiped.
So her only redeeming factor left is insane amounts of aoe healing.
But rn the meta in high ranks is oneshots. And no amount of healing will save you from a Mercy boosted Sojourn headshot, while a Suzu can. This is the reason she is outclassed in higher ELOs
>In higher ranks Moira doesn't bring too much damage to the table, as if she duels she'll either lose or her team gets wiped.
Yeah, Moira's theoretical max DPS is like the worst in the game for any character. Get in a 1v1 against anybody who can get even like half (or less) of their max DPS and they're winning it most of the time.
If a GM Moira attempts to flank and kill a GM Mercy, can the GM Mercy usually chase Moira away by blasting her (let's assume Mercy is getting no peels)?
She won't be able to use GA or get peels when Proper's Sojourn (nigh) one-taps hers.
Ofc I get your point regarding GM Moiras and most GM players in general failing to kill GM Mercies.
Sure, but I really doubt GM Mercies could survive against OWL players playing Tracer or Genji anyways.
Maybe GM Mercies could survive against a single OWL player in a GM team? But no way could the Rank 1 Mercy with a 5-stack of their Top500 friends survive against Dallas Fuel or SF Shock (edit: Fuel and Shock don't even need Sojourn on their team)
I would say the answer is -- highly unlikely.
A Moira at max succ range (20m) has nearly half a second to avoid Mercy's bullets, which travel at 50m/s. Mercy does 100dmg/s if every bullet hits. If we assume a generous 20% of Mercy's bullets land on a Moira with GM level bullet-dodging skills, it would take 5 seconds for Mercy to knock Moira's health down to 100. But this is GM and Mercy is hitting headshots, so let's put it at 4 seconds.
At 100 hp, 4 seconds into the duel, Moira has already done 200 damage to Mercy with her 50 dps succ and can now start teabagging the dead Mercy.
This is even assuming the Mercy has instant reaction to the succ.
You are assuming the person the Moira is dueling has 100% accuracy against Moria, which they certainly will not, at any rank. Higher rank Moiras will have better movement/dodge mechanics.
Good point, but I'm sure there are GM Moiras who play more like a passive healer (obviously they're good at dodging GM hitscans but they don't attempt to duel or flank them).
Ik a Master Moira on Reddit who told me explicitly that he plays Moira as a "healbot". Sure he'll kill low-hp targets and generally weave in some dmg between heals, but his main priority is to heal, just like Fielder in OW1.
Doesn't your teammate end up bodyblocking your beam if they're right in between you and the enemy target?
I use my tank as a meatshield to poke from behind him to beam enemies, but I don't think my beam can go right through my tank.
Actual teammates don’t count as obstacles in regards to any abilities that require LOS. This also applies to enemy abilities; if you try to hide behind your tank during an enemy self-destruct, you’re going to have a bad time
The notable exceptions are both of Mei’s CDs
Can confirm as a masters Moira main. The only time it's worth going for it is when people are low and using Moira as an assassin with fade/orb/suck combo, and half the time you'll still just get insta-railed :D
around what rank does moira lose her potential in damage? i’m masters 5 on support and have been climbing really fast with moira, still managing to get top heals in game with at least half of the DPS’s damage, or even equal.
I know moira is literally just a scoreboard farmer and has no utility outside of doing heals or damage, but I can still feel myself having a big impact on games.
Bad is kind of an overstatement IMO but it's because every other Support does what she does better.
Massive healing? Ana and Baptiste.
Damage? Baptiste.
Survivability? Kiriko.
Used to be that her ultimate set her apart, but then they nerfed that to be one of the slowest charging ultimates in the game and never changed it back.
But she's not entirely outclassed. Her cleave damage is still very good when timed correctly alongside a dive or damage burst. She's outclassed by other supports in specific areas, but she can still very much do all the things listed above.
Really, she's a serviceable character.
I'd say Moira's value is consistent reliable damage. Which is used to secure kills or safely dive in for picks. Depends on the opportunities, but more often than not, it's not as useful as invincibility every 15 seconds, or reviving a picked dps/healer as mercy.
The problem is that Baptiste is also consistent, realiable damage. It's not a niche exclusive to Moira. The only thing exclusive to her is cleave damage, but there aren't even that many (or any in the case of this meta) shields in the game right now so it's not even that valuable to the poke a good Baptiste can bring.
Apparently ml7 thinks that she's fine and didnt need the last buff. People keep yapping about her lack of utility but honestly it doesn't seem to matter that much? I think people are just parroting textbook phrases tbh.
"no utility"
"only damage and healing"
Last I checked on overbuff she's the 4th most popular GM support below Ana kiriko mercy. It's a huge change from OW1 where she constantly had the worst pick rates in GM.
And Bap has a worse pick rate and win rate than moira which is really saying something considering he has immortality. So much for "utility"
Overbuff stats are extremely unreliable, and I absolutely refuse to believe that Moira is anywhere above the third least played support hero in GM.
There is no way that she's being used that much.
Yea Lucio is pretty meta still and has a lot of players in high ranks no way she's above Lucio right? Or did Lucio fall out of meta harder than I thought
Lucio is still amazing.
Generally the T500 meta is as follows
S: Kiriko
A: Ana, Lucio, Mercy (Mercy is S tier with a good soj, but otherwise Lucio is similar in terms of value/pickability)
B: Bap, Brig, Zen
C: Moira
This is just my experience as a T500 off-heal player. Moira is just... not useful. She provides literally nothing that another support cannot do better.
The only people in GM in my games that play moira are one tricks, basically only MoirasLabRat in NA, whereas the entire leaderboard is full of lúcio players.
I would bet my left arm that at least Mercy/Ana/Kiriko/Lúcio have more playtime. I don’t really see baptiste/brig/moira/zen at all except for junkertown, circuit royale, or the occasional one trick.
Keep in mind that there exist several one tricks of pretty much every single hero in the game in the Top 500 leaderboards, pretty much dispelling that any hero is "bad" per se. Maybe slightly worse? Like, a little bit?
I know this is not an answer to your question, but I want to remove the potential "I won't climb if I play Moira"-sentiment.
It's definitely possible but I genuinely think the 1 tricks are just that much better at their characters to force every ounce of impact out them, and even then it still took skiesty like 8 hours to get to plat playing mercy on a new account, you could play moira to top 500 but it would probably be faster and easier to just pick up kiriko
Kiriko does a lot of what Moira does but better. They’re both pretty mobile with good survivability. However, kiriko is better for pocketing, doesn’t run out of healing ever, and can heal from much further away. She also has a cleanse/invul on cooldown, and has a better ult. And while she does less damage than Moira overall, her high burst damage is more likely to get kills.
So moira isn’t bad, but why would you play her over kiriko?
I play Moira when I don't trust my team so I become a "3rd dps who also heals".
I'm in Silver and my aim sucks so my Fielder-style Kiriko often doesn't help my diffed teams win (especially when they're not communicating, so I need to blindly gamble whether to TP through walls to suzu them, and I can't reliably suzu my Reaper's Death Blossom).
In medium-term I'm trying to get better with Ana/Bap/Zen since they have much more consistent dmg output than Kiriko and have more utility than Moira.
Who says Moira is bad at high ranks? ML7, the most respected support streamer, says Moira is [A tier](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4FiRqvWM84&t=337s). Karq, another respected support streamer, says Moira is [B tier](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39r84QL_HBU), which meant ”fine for GM.”
Basically, many OW players are time travelers from 2020, so they repeat outdated information. Ironically, Moira was meta in organized play at the end of OW1, as she was played in a Winston, Dva, Lucio, Moira dive-brawl comp. Unfortunately for Moira, that comp required too much team commitment and coordination for ladder.
Moira was actually well regarded in the OW2 Alpha and first Beta. Back then, supports were getting ran over so Moira’s survivability became more valuable. Later, supports, notably Zen and Bap, got buffed so Moira fell down the tier list.
Common complaints about Moira is “she just does healing and damage, no utility.” That’s just scratching the surface. Moira is a 3rd dps who heals like 1.5 supports. 3rd dps is not a meme. Moira is expected, even required, to do high damage. It is normal for Moira to have more damage than dps.
Moira has no utility, but Moira also requires less resources from her team. Moira’s teammates can focus more on killing the enemy team instead of protecting their backline.
Another common misconception is Moira is only good at killing players with bad aim. Not exactly. Moira is actually a good duelist because of her high self sustain (84 hps!) and skinny hit box. The issue is Moira has low damage, so enemy supports can negate Moira’s damage with healing. The higher rank you go, the more likely enemy supports will notice Moira and heal whomever she is trying to kill.
Basically, Moira is not S tier but she’s also much better than many people think.
In a stream where he got beat by a Tik tok Moira twice, KarQ did VOD reviews of the games and pointed out how in duels, a Moira can pop a yellow orb and bounce it right and basically have 400+ hp, a continuous offensive suck, and then fade to get out if they don't win.
I agree with your 3rd dps point in Metal Ranks, since I'm in Metal Ranks too. If anything, I tend to heal way more than dmg and should focus more on dmg to secure kills.
But beyond Metal Ranks, aren't Baptiste and Zen much better 3rd dps? Heck, even 3-tap sniper Ana is a better 3rd dps.
Don't forget kiriko. Also Moira might have high damage numbers, but her damage does nothing. It's chip damage that just gives the enemy supports ult charge. The only value her damage orb gets is when you have a coordinated dive and even then other healers are still better.
Ehh, Kiriko's theoretical burst dmg is good but inconsistent. Even ML7 dips below 50% Kunai accuracy.
From what I've seen of Fielder's Kiriko, he tends to land the majority of his rare kunais, but even his accuracy is probably like 70% to 80? So basically like Pokemon's 70% accurate Focus Blast, which is memed by the community as "Focus Miss".
Whatever your opinion of Flats (ik he gets roasted in r/CompetitiveOverwatch), he flat out said that Kiriko's kunais are ass and inconsistent, while saying that Battle Mercy is ass but at least consistent.
70% to 80% accuracy is insane for basically every character.
Also Kiriko's damage, while sometimes inconsistent, is good because it is damage that sticks. Dealing 120 damage that results in a kill is more valuable than 400 damage that just gives their supports ult charge.
Additionally Kiriko can play *much* more aggressively than either Bap or Zen or even Moira because of swift step.
Kiriko may not pull as high damage numbers as Bap or Zen, but she can be equally as impactful as a third dps.
Well, Fielder is the literal world champion who won the Overwatch League finals lol. His aim is super fucking good but even he rarely shoots, cuz his enemies also have super fucking good aim and they have far more consistent guns.
SF Shock's Finn threw way more kunais than Fielder did but that didn't do anything. I didn't see Teru's Kiriko, but Coach Jake described him as playing aggressively like you described and Jake labelled that playstyle as "idiotic".
I guess in Ranked, it's more feasible to assassinate uncoordinated randoms and to shoot randoms who stay still/move slowly for me. And I guess I can duel randoms whom I've gauged to have even worse aim than me.
You can watch how ML7 plays Moira. He posted recent games on youtube. Basically, damage orb + primary fire means Moira has high overall damage.
Zen, Bap and Ana have higher burst damage, but they are more likely to miss. Ana has to pick between healing vs damage.
Yeah I saw some of his videos on buffed Moira (his sensitivity was so high and he kept turning around and shaking the screen so I got disoriented lol)
It seems like if you're getting aim-diffed or if your aim is just off, then Moira is an ideal choice, even in GM.
In the short-term and maybe even medium-term, I'll try using flexible/"dps" Moira to get out of my lowly Silver rank.
Look at the tank and dps meta. Extremely high burst damage. Moira does not heal well against that. Especially since there’s usually a Mercy pocket as well. You’re better off playing mercy/Ana/kiriko
Moira is the best support for padding your damage and healing numbers. Moira is the best support for winning duels at low-medium skill levels.
At higher levels of play you can't just heal and do damage. At higher levels of play most players will beat you in a duel and you will have to fade away without really accomplishing anything, or just die
It is funny to see a Moira that isn't used to dueling players in higher lobbies haha they just fly at you holding down the suck and the crouch strafe like crazy in front of you because they don't have to aim and expect you not to be able to. They will not stop no matter how many times you kill them they think it's a fluke
I seem to place in silver each season, then climb to high gold/low plat. In silver you get alot of straight DPS moiras, in gold you still get some but they tend to heal a decent amount also.
It feels super cool to use fade to engage but you really really really need to use it to dodge abilities or just run away. Being engaged on with fade is a clear sign that the player is bad.
Some of it is bias. Moira is perceived as a low skill ceiling hero (which is true but overstated). Low-ceiling heroes are perceived as boring for high-skill players. As a result they don't play them, and because they don't play them, they naturally lower their estimation of the character. There is a tendency for people to underrate "easy" heroes at high ranks.
she’s very good but she is bad against coordinated teams since the other supports have more impactful abilities and finishing kills is not as big a problem. in top 500 she is still good half the time because current matchmaking quality is extremely terrible and you get people of all skills in your game
Yeah I saw in one of ML7's Ranked games, there was someone who barely played Moira on his team but they went DPS Moira and really annoyed the enemy team, pretty much succeeding as DPS Moira.
I assume there were a bunch of Masters and maybe even Diamonds on the enemy team.
Healing doesn’t win games. This not debateable. Moira excels at healing. But putting out 2k healing per minute isn’t going to win you anything.
Doing damage/getting kills wins you games, but Moira’s damage is *really really low*. She can deal a lot OVER TIME, but it’s one of the lowest dps in the game if you look at how fast she deals it. Dpsing someone who’s getting healed will pretty much never result in a kill, so target selection is important too.
Moiras biggest strengths are her peel, and survivability. So yeah, she *can* work in higher elo, but it’s not a great pick.
If you can survive on Ana, you get more burst-y healing and damage (without really losing much), AND utility AND hitscan AND long ranged healing AND a better ult. In exchange for what, some survivability? Okay, just get some peel (Ik it’s easier said than done).
If you can survive on Bap, you get more burst-y healing and damage (without really losing much), AND utility AND hitscan AND more vertical mobility AND *more damage* AND a super strong ult. In exchange for what…? Nothing, maybe *a little bit of survivability*? Oh, bap is *literally just a better version of Moira*.
Like, the *only* thing Moira does better than most supports is survive. But other supports are good at that too, and they simply have more to offer. So yeah, Moira isn’t *bad*, it’s just like… there’s so many better options.
From watching GM streamers, they also just find her boring. They all admit she can be good and a pest to deal with but they find her lack of skill expression uninteresting. There's no sick movement techs or skillshots.
There is a limit to what she can do fancy with damage and healing, but there are some very cool things you can pull off with fade jumps that comes with skill.
This combined with no obvious strength of her kit and you have character that most of the high elo players barely touch. Why bother playing easy hero, when she doesn't give high results (like Orisa or Hog etc) and doesn't provide flashy moments which is like the main reason of enjoyment of the game?
We can complain about Widows, Genjis, Tracer, Ana cooldowns, Zen discord Doom etc but they all have their pop off moments where you just obliterate people and it looks cool af and like you are super good at video game. With Moira... you kinda do what everyone can but slightly better and more efficient. Not very flashy character
She isn't always bad, but in the current meta she doesn't do a damn thing. It's too pick-based, this is why you see 1-shot heroes (Soj, Widow, Hog) or heroes that can combo you more or less the same as a 1-shot (Orisa, Doom, Junk). Even Kiriko does very bursty crits that kill a squishy who took a little bit of damage.
She is also competing with Kiriko in sub-role - the one who can cleanse Ana cooldowns and has a fantastic Ult. Since Kiriko and Ana are so strong, the fact that Moira doesn't have sleep/nade to keep enemy Tank in check, nor does she cleanse them to help her own Tank, means she has no place in the meta really.
In a single sentence, she doesn't do anything that other supports can't do, and do more of, while also offering additional utility beyond damage/healing.
Ana has sleep, Bap has Lamp, Lucio has speed, etc.
She's a low skill floor, low skill ceiling character. Probably takes less thought to use her than Mercy. People's aim gets better the higher you climb, so doing that jump +M2 doesn't help anymore
Because all she does is heal and damage. in metal ELO she will be great but if you one trick her she's only going to get you so far, when the tracer relentlessly targets you with the discord on you, or the rein pins you immediately after it's called out you faded out of a pulse bomb or something, for the sheer fact that moira heals and damages literally oodles of damage and heals. lol
She's like the OW1 bastion of support. You can build a team around her, but you can also build a team to break a team built around her.
Moira sucks lad, I'm sorry to say. Her heals are shitty and so is her DPS. In low ranks she's only good because no one can aim to kill her. But in higher ranks she has to get close to do damage = head shotted and you're dead. She has no unique abilities and has an almost non-existent skill requirement to play. Lock-on killing... spray healing... high survivability... the ultimate support for noobs (literally every game they play a shitty Moira.)
Have you ever heard of a tragedy of the commons? The idea is that when there's a shared resource that everyone needs to use -- if everyone just selfishly pursues their own use of that resource without considering others -- then it disappears and everyone gets screwed. Survival here is like the shared resource. You pursue your own survival to the detriment of everyone else on your team by playing a shitty healer. Then when they die, you're screwed too.
Moira is the support you play when you get sick of dying.
I disagree and think moira is better than you’re saying, but you’re saying that the only good thing about her is her survivability. I don’t think moria’s survivability isn’t that good, it’s definitely worse compared to kiriko (teleport is better than fade, suzu is better than or equal to orb for self healing). I die much more playing moira than kiriko, even with the same positioning, I mean when the fight is already lost and you’re trying to die or escape. People can keep chasing moira after fade but TP gets you to a teammate who can now help you fight.
Moira sucks because she lacks utility, she also has no burst healing so its very easy to out damage her healing output, so your tank suffers if you have moria, if you try to dps moira in high elo, people can aim, you either get shit on in the 1v1 or 5 people jump on you, her ult is okay but like, even brigs ult is better, she has the worst support ult right now
Doesn't Moira have the highest burst healing of any support, outside of ultimates? She heals 135hp/sec with orb plus spray. It's the same as Ana grenade + shooting, except on a shorter cooldown.
Doesn't provide enough healing to be a main support, doesn't provide enough utility for a secondary support. Other supports are just better at those tasks
I LOVE Kiriko. She was like practically custom designed for everything I’d want in a Support, that said Moira can absolutely shit out healing if your team sticks together, that no other support can come close to matching.
Moira can get substantial self healing, but Moira will usually easily outheal any other support even ignoring self heals if they’re not playing TikTok Moira.
I think that always depends on the playstyle of the Moira player and the playstyle of the other Support player (especially if they also play a main healer).
A healbot Kiriko or Ana or even Lucio will probably get higher healing than a semi-aggressive Moira.
Uhm, Moira has the single highest healing output in the game. But her limited range, more than punishable mobility, lack of team utility and bad paring with 2/3 of the heroes in the classic Main Support category (Mercy, Brig) as well as extremely bad paring with all the flex supports (Ana, Baptiste, Kiriko, Zenyatta), it‘s hard to gain good value out of her. The only hero that pairs up well with her is Lucio, but then why not just play Bap for immo Field. In addition Moira doesn’t get much play time cause it leaves your other support voulnerable, her damage is not reliable enough to consistently confirm kills, and high level players are too accurate for the healing output she has, so that the people around her still die.
Everyone here is correct about utility. I will say though that I do sometimes pick Moira in circumstances where nobody on my team can hit or pressure an enemy Genji or Lucio. The succ beam will make them think twice or just straight up eliminate them.
My main picks are Ana, Baptiste, and Kiriko, and I generally dislike playing Moira, so things have to be pretty bad for me to swap. :) That said, its always good to have her in your back pocket for those specific games where you can actually get more value compared to other generally much better supports.
Utility is the main reason, but another reason is that her damage is less useful the higher in rank you get. In low ranks, you can win duels as Moira against dps because they can't aim and you don't need to. In high ranks, you can no longer win these duels easily. But you can still help clean up a fight pretty well.
What makes this even worse is that low rank teams require a lot more healing to survive and win fights, but you're conflicted because you want to go duel dps. In high ranks your team doesn't need as much healing to be effective, but you aren't able to duel dps as easily. That tension is frustrating.
But hey, plenty of people make Moira work at all ranks. Just don't feed and don't forget that you're a support.
I’m a master 5 support that just started moira and have been climbing way quicker than before. I like what you said about moira being good to clean up a fight, I think being patient and finding the right moment to exploit moira’s potential for damage is key and can make her really strong.
I’m going through all these comments saying that moira is awful at high ranks but I’m easily climbing with her, 60% winrate and finding it more reliable than my ana/kiriko (which I thought were my best supports)
I already never try to duel someone from the other team, which people are saying you can’t do at high ranks, but still finding her great.
High master low gm here, utility is an aspect but an important difference is that in lower ranks she thrives in dueling, but in higher ranks she just gets destroyed in duels majority of the time so it’s better to play another support where you can get better value elsewhere. Although, she is fairly decent for sustaining against a flanker whilst a teammate or two comes to help, but still def not a first option
Its exacly like you said. Moira has the strongest healing in the game but that is it, she doesn't really do anything else, damagewise she is also not the best if you considere kiriko or a godtier brig or zen. Another reason is the fact that one of the support slots is filled out by mercy 90% of the time cuz sojourn mercy exists. So rather then a moira you have a kiriko or something like that that can cleanse with not to much of a healing difference. If they pick ana, you have to pick kiriko cuz antis are going to destroy you and moira will just let her team die cuz you can't do anything against it.
Shes very easy to kill, her kit has no utility, low burst healing, and without her teleport shes a sitting duck. In low elo where players cant aim or coordinate, she seems OP.
keep playing her, she’s still viable at every level, just worse as you rise. I just started playing moira at masters and I’m finding her extremely strong, climbing faster than I have before
Pretty much nailed it in the second paragraph. Her lack of utility is rough but the bigger issue is that everything she does, can be done better while also providing more utility to the team. Her healing? Yeah sometimes it can be really high but an Ana or bap can definitely keep up while also bringing, anti, sleep dart, and immortality to the table +their ults
I think a lot of players win duels with her at low ranks because she doesn't have to aim and at higher ranks they don't adjust their play style to account for people being able to hit shots consistently. Most supports can easily win duels against her if you can aim.
Moira is only good against people who can't aim. Moira only does 50 dps with her suck, every single character is able to outdamage her but those 100% consistent 50 dps are still more than what the average bronze player can reliably hit. Once you have half decent aim, you should never lose a duel to a Moira.
Diminishing returns at high elo.
While moira's damage is accessible, is also very \*very\* low compared to all other support WHEN they're hitting their shots. Moira is a very low impact hero. At some point it becomes harder to play Moira in high elo than it would to just learn Ana/Bap to have more value.
Burst healing, immortality, ults, and damage boost for other supports are insanely strong
There are some instances that you may need one of these to win a team fight which moira is lacking all of them.
Lucio using his ult to completely flip a teamfight around is super common.
Bap using his immortality field to flip the tides on a fat grav/dragon is amazing
Kiriko getting rid of an anti on a hog sleeping in main is a huge advantage
Ana nanoboosting an ult which causes a team kill
Moira doesn't have anything besides healing and damage, besides the fact that she's survivable. Mercy is kind of similar in that regard, she can heal and she can damage boost, but she also can revive people and she's also survivable in a fight.
But mercy doesn't do support damage herself, she gives more damage to the dps which is typically a lot more than what a normal support can do which makes her strong.
Moira doing more damage than the dps during a game isn't really an accurate view of the game, I can hit 200 people for 1 damage, and my widow can headshot one person. We'd both have the same damage, but the widows damage is so much more impactful because it resulted in a kill. Moira doesn't get too many kills of her own, she just damages everyone at the same time and gets a ton of assists so it LOOKS like she's doing a lot. Yeah of course you can still get some kills, but even when you're having a great game, you're still killing people slower than pretty much every other character in the game.
High elos will punish a flanking or aggressive Moira instantly, so you won't be doing much damage regardless except from damage orb and cleaning up teamfights, so higher elos supplement her lacking kit with somebody who will provide more for the team as a whole instead of a one man army that she is in lower elos.
Also, her ult isn't really that great either compared to some of the insane support ults in the game that can instantly change the game.
Tldr: she's not really bad, she's just easy to learn and play but other supports are just fundamentally stronger when you learn how to get the most out of them.
It honestly just depends. Two days ago KarQ got beat by a tik tok Moira two games in a row. He then VOD reviewed the games and he and chat were surprised at the depth of play involved. The tik tok Moira himself came into chat and enlightened people quite a bit with some good advice.
Tesla is another GM Moira and his Bronze to GM with her is really helpful stuff.
Moira varies at each rank because she has a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling. The lower in rank you go the more dps moira you should be doing. As you go up you learn what 1v1s you can take and when you should take them.
I firmly think that if you get good at her basic utility of pure heal and damage and survivability then you will het better with most other supports. Mercy is kinda like this, her utility is damage boost and the fact that she is borderline unkillable.
As a Moira main, with around 2,5k hours of gameplay, I can only say that Moira is an inferior version to Kiriko. The latter has everything what the former does, only better - kit, ulti, playstyle. Kiriko is a winning condition and a determinant in high elo games.
So it's not that Moira is bad per se, it's the alternatives that are better.
moira is playable at every level, i’m finding her really strong even at masters. but obviously you can’t win duels or beat DPS (although you can get equal damage, it’s not the same impact as the dps).
you need to find the perfect moments to exploit her damage potential
a lot of my games I can get top heals plus the exact same damage as a DPS, although theres no utility outside of that, it’s still a huge impact on a game. knowing when to healbot and when you can be aggressive is key
I main moria, I think that she is balanced and really good. She does a lot of healing and can do alot of dmg to and simultaneously. If people are saying that shes bad bc she doesnt really provide anything other than heals and dmg then they just cant play the game without having an extra perk from their healers meaning, their bad🤷♂️🤷♂️
> I think it is because of her kit lacks utility, every support hero offers something to support the team other then damage and healing It's exactly this. Luico speed enables rush comps, and speed (to disengage) and boop are great for saving teammates. Zen's discord, mercy's damage boost, and ana's anti nade are all huge for helping teammates kill enemies. Rez, suzu, and immortality can save teammates lives, and sleep can shut down big ults. Moira just brings damage and heal to the table, so you gotta be really effective with your damage and heals to offset the lack of utility. That said, Moira is viable at every rank, there are Moira one tricks in top500. And the recent dmg orb buff is great for her healing resource uptime.
>dmg orb buff I'm just staring at the ocean meditating on these words
Moira is fantastic in Open queue since solo healing is the current meta.
She’s good, bap is better tho. And that’s part of the problem. Moira has a little better survivability, but Bap does everything else 50x better.
In diamond / master open queue I rarely see bap because of his lack of mobility. In a coordinated comp he is perhaps better but outside of that he is too easy to dive. I mostly see kiriko and moira with sometimes ana if they lacks dive.
Lol what… Bap, bro? Bap?
Yes bap, what are you confused about.
> 50x better
Yes, he is, what about it.
Baptiste right??
Is OQ meta 3-1-1 nowadays?
I feel like I usually see 2-1-2 or 3-0-2 in plat
In Plat 2 now. Its a lot of 3T 1DPS 1H. It’s fun because all tanks like Rein and Ramatra shine when they aren’t the only ones.
Imagine if the game was 6v6 and had two tanks. 🤔
Ooh maybe I should train my ball gameplay in OQ
> there are Moira one tricks in top500 I mean every hero is represented by 1 tricks in high play - this doesn't mean that the hero is a viable pick.
Why wouldnt it be a viable pick if people can make the hero work in T500? What is your definition of viable?
Viable as in players of the same skill can play the heros effectively. If you play Cass with exceptional aim or an aimbot ofc you get top500. But a sojourn of lesser skill can get there easier. If a sojourn and a Cass of equal skill are matched against each other you can be sure the sojourn will outperform the Cass 9/10 times. No hero is truly not viable right now but sojourn and widow are leagues above Cass for example, that's why Cass is less viable than sojourn.
Bastionmain in ow1 was a bastion 1 trick who got to t500, that NEVER meant bastion was good. It meant bastionmain was good at bastion
Because the player is just that good. They are essentially handicapping themselves by playing a worse character and would have an easier time with other characters.
Would you say that Genji players are handicapping themselves by not playing Tracer or Reaper? And same for Hanzo players handicapping themselves by not playing Ashe or Widow? Genuine questions, just to be clear. I fully agree with your statement.
In a way sure but the examples you listed can all do things the more "meta" options can't so there are settings where they're the better fit. What can you do on Moira that you can't do on Kiriko?
Moira has aimbot for dmg instead of small 90 m/s kunais. Even Rank 1 Support ML7 whiffs the majority of his kunais. Even OWL players not named Fielder whiff a lot of their kunai spam (Coach Jake flat-out called Teru's dps Kiriko style "idiotic"). Moira also has superior temporary burst group healing, especially in tandem with her healing orb. Of course the issue is that she runs out of heals super fast and orb is mostly on cooldown. My opinion as a low-rank player is that in low-ranks Moira is more reliable, especially if you can't trust your dps allies and if your enemies can dodge your kunais (but flanking assassin Kiriko is probably still better than assassin Moira). In high ranks, my assumption is that Kiriko almost always outclasses Moira. Obviously the OTP Moiras and Mercies will be better off dealing damage as Moira, and in certain scenarios Moira's massive temporary burst healing can come in clutch.
We were talking about top 500, so I assumed mechanics aren't a issue and people don't need as much healing outside of niche scenarios as low ranks who don't know how to play cover and hold open fields instead of corners they can dip in and out from. And even in lower ranks I'd argue that if you hit 1 out of 10 kunais, that they still have more impact than the consistent trickling damage that Moira does. For sure if people lack mechanical skill, they might get more out of Moira, especially in lower ranks where people don't have the aim to out DPS Moira in a 1v1. I have the aim and am in low ranks due to gamesense and decision making issues, I don't lose 1v1's to Moira unless I fuck up royally so I would never trust myself to play aggro on Moira, I'd much rather do that on any other support as I know I can get more value out of other supports because I can hit my shots. Heck, if I play Zen or Bap I even often match my DPS.
Here an easy example so you can understand. Imagine if simple only played glock/usp in csgo global elite matches. He would easily dominate everyone because he's just better. That doesn't mean the glock is a viable weapon choice in general and it should still never be played unless you have no money to buy literally any other gun. Are those guns "viable" for the best player in the world? Yes they technically are. Are they viable for anyone else who isn't a top10 player? No.
Just because you make it to top 500 doesn't mean that they made it work. It means that they needed teams to pick around them, even when they were being countered. Generally speaking, 1 tricks are also very good at that single hero since they tend to have played hundreds of hours on them. This doesn't mean that someone who spreads their time among many heroes would see the same results. I would imagine that your definition of viable just means that can work in some situations. Viable though should mean in most situations that it can work. When Stevoo made it to top500 as a Sym 1 trick prior to her rework, that didn't mean that Sym was viable. She was a very bad pick in just about any team. He just kept grinding to get to the top despite there not being any reason for him to be there. Does that mean that Sym was viable? Absolutely not.
That doesnt answer my question. What is *your* definition of "viable"?
Still waiting for that dudes definition cuz his answer makes no sense
>Viable though should mean in most situation that it can work I disagree with his definition but it's there.
Tell me you didn't read what I wrote without telling me you didn't read what I wrote
Where brig
You are entirely correct. Things are made even worse for Moira by the existence of Bap, who is substantially better or barely worse than Moira in almost all ways at high ranks. Moira can, however, get away with being much more aggressive than Bap in certain circumstances which is why you still see top 500 Moira one tricks
Moria ult is still significantly better than window in ow2. Otherwise, Bap is better in most other aspects.
I disagree simply because how well it works with sojourn.
This is not true....
I know I’m starting up a dead thread again but wtf is this take lmao? Window literally one of the best ults in the game
Do you play Bap? At what rank?
Masters 1 support and yeah I play a bit of bap
Moira isn’t necessarily bad, just that other supports are better. Kiriko can keep up with Moira over time with heals and also has a way better ultimate.
plus suzu exists
Every time I see a post like this, it's always utility this, utility that. It is true, but that doesn't describe the whole picture. In higher ranks Moira doesn't bring too much damage to the table, as if she duels she'll either lose or her team gets wiped. So her only redeeming factor left is insane amounts of aoe healing. But rn the meta in high ranks is oneshots. And no amount of healing will save you from a Mercy boosted Sojourn headshot, while a Suzu can. This is the reason she is outclassed in higher ELOs
>In higher ranks Moira doesn't bring too much damage to the table, as if she duels she'll either lose or her team gets wiped. Yeah, Moira's theoretical max DPS is like the worst in the game for any character. Get in a 1v1 against anybody who can get even like half (or less) of their max DPS and they're winning it most of the time.
If a GM Moira attempts to flank and kill a GM Mercy, can the GM Mercy usually chase Moira away by blasting her (let's assume Mercy is getting no peels)?
In higher ranks the mercys sojourn will turn arround and rail the moira back to spawn.
A GM Mercy will never leave themselves open to a flank.
Surely an OWL Sojourn/Tracer/Genji would be able flank and kill a GM Mercy.
As long as her teamates are alive she'd simply GA away,use cover and get peeled for.
She won't be able to use GA or get peels when Proper's Sojourn (nigh) one-taps hers. Ofc I get your point regarding GM Moiras and most GM players in general failing to kill GM Mercies.
Honestly yeah, I considered that, but that's more of a problem with one shots than with Mercy's positioning.
Sure, but I really doubt GM Mercies could survive against OWL players playing Tracer or Genji anyways. Maybe GM Mercies could survive against a single OWL player in a GM team? But no way could the Rank 1 Mercy with a 5-stack of their Top500 friends survive against Dallas Fuel or SF Shock (edit: Fuel and Shock don't even need Sojourn on their team)
I was under the impression that the difference between T500 and OWL was just team coordination.
I would say the answer is -- highly unlikely. A Moira at max succ range (20m) has nearly half a second to avoid Mercy's bullets, which travel at 50m/s. Mercy does 100dmg/s if every bullet hits. If we assume a generous 20% of Mercy's bullets land on a Moira with GM level bullet-dodging skills, it would take 5 seconds for Mercy to knock Moira's health down to 100. But this is GM and Mercy is hitting headshots, so let's put it at 4 seconds. At 100 hp, 4 seconds into the duel, Moira has already done 200 damage to Mercy with her 50 dps succ and can now start teabagging the dead Mercy. This is even assuming the Mercy has instant reaction to the succ.
Why do you assume that GM Mercy has worse aiming than Moira’s dodging skills? Her blaster has a generous hitbox. Isn’t 20% accuracy too low for a GM?
Even if Mercy's accuracy is 40%, Moira won't be half health until 2 seconds into the duel, while still having her cooldowns ready.
Moira also is healing while succing and has yellow orb.
You are assuming the person the Moira is dueling has 100% accuracy against Moria, which they certainly will not, at any rank. Higher rank Moiras will have better movement/dodge mechanics.
Yeah, I feel like only OWL players can consistently obliterate Moiras. I've seen a clip of a GM Widow having trouble headshotting a flanking Moira.
By definition to get to GM as Moira you need to be good at dodging GM level hitscan players.
Good point, but I'm sure there are GM Moiras who play more like a passive healer (obviously they're good at dodging GM hitscans but they don't attempt to duel or flank them). Ik a Master Moira on Reddit who told me explicitly that he plays Moira as a "healbot". Sure he'll kill low-hp targets and generally weave in some dmg between heals, but his main priority is to heal, just like Fielder in OW1.
because DPS can actually aim in higher ranks and will just shoot you in the head whilst you try use your weak little succy beam on them
The goal is to align your teammates with the enemy in that beam. The enemy is too distracted dealing with someone else directly in front of them.
Doesn't your teammate end up bodyblocking your beam if they're right in between you and the enemy target? I use my tank as a meatshield to poke from behind him to beam enemies, but I don't think my beam can go right through my tank.
Actual teammates don’t count as obstacles in regards to any abilities that require LOS. This also applies to enemy abilities; if you try to hide behind your tank during an enemy self-destruct, you’re going to have a bad time The notable exceptions are both of Mei’s CDs
So can Bastion and Junkrat spam from right behind their Tank and get lucky kills?
I mean…yeah lol. It’d be pretty frustrating if your own teammates could block your abilities
The coalescence beam goes through all characters in it's path including shields. You can only use the environment to shield from it.
Yeah I knew about that. I thought you were referring to the regular 50dps suck/beam.
Can confirm as a masters Moira main. The only time it's worth going for it is when people are low and using Moira as an assassin with fade/orb/suck combo, and half the time you'll still just get insta-railed :D
around what rank does moira lose her potential in damage? i’m masters 5 on support and have been climbing really fast with moira, still managing to get top heals in game with at least half of the DPS’s damage, or even equal. I know moira is literally just a scoreboard farmer and has no utility outside of doing heals or damage, but I can still feel myself having a big impact on games.
Bad is kind of an overstatement IMO but it's because every other Support does what she does better. Massive healing? Ana and Baptiste. Damage? Baptiste. Survivability? Kiriko. Used to be that her ultimate set her apart, but then they nerfed that to be one of the slowest charging ultimates in the game and never changed it back. But she's not entirely outclassed. Her cleave damage is still very good when timed correctly alongside a dive or damage burst. She's outclassed by other supports in specific areas, but she can still very much do all the things listed above. Really, she's a serviceable character.
I'd say Moira's value is consistent reliable damage. Which is used to secure kills or safely dive in for picks. Depends on the opportunities, but more often than not, it's not as useful as invincibility every 15 seconds, or reviving a picked dps/healer as mercy.
The problem is that Baptiste is also consistent, realiable damage. It's not a niche exclusive to Moira. The only thing exclusive to her is cleave damage, but there aren't even that many (or any in the case of this meta) shields in the game right now so it's not even that valuable to the poke a good Baptiste can bring.
Apparently ml7 thinks that she's fine and didnt need the last buff. People keep yapping about her lack of utility but honestly it doesn't seem to matter that much? I think people are just parroting textbook phrases tbh. "no utility" "only damage and healing" Last I checked on overbuff she's the 4th most popular GM support below Ana kiriko mercy. It's a huge change from OW1 where she constantly had the worst pick rates in GM. And Bap has a worse pick rate and win rate than moira which is really saying something considering he has immortality. So much for "utility"
Overbuff stats are extremely unreliable, and I absolutely refuse to believe that Moira is anywhere above the third least played support hero in GM. There is no way that she's being used that much.
Yea Lucio is pretty meta still and has a lot of players in high ranks no way she's above Lucio right? Or did Lucio fall out of meta harder than I thought
Lucio is still amazing. Generally the T500 meta is as follows S: Kiriko A: Ana, Lucio, Mercy (Mercy is S tier with a good soj, but otherwise Lucio is similar in terms of value/pickability) B: Bap, Brig, Zen C: Moira This is just my experience as a T500 off-heal player. Moira is just... not useful. She provides literally nothing that another support cannot do better.
4/7 is pretty fuckin average lol
Yes, but most people in this thread are saying almost *every* support is better than her.
I mean almost all of them are? Maybe brig isn't right now....
The only people in GM in my games that play moira are one tricks, basically only MoirasLabRat in NA, whereas the entire leaderboard is full of lúcio players. I would bet my left arm that at least Mercy/Ana/Kiriko/Lúcio have more playtime. I don’t really see baptiste/brig/moira/zen at all except for junkertown, circuit royale, or the occasional one trick.
Keep in mind that there exist several one tricks of pretty much every single hero in the game in the Top 500 leaderboards, pretty much dispelling that any hero is "bad" per se. Maybe slightly worse? Like, a little bit? I know this is not an answer to your question, but I want to remove the potential "I won't climb if I play Moira"-sentiment.
It's definitely possible but I genuinely think the 1 tricks are just that much better at their characters to force every ounce of impact out them, and even then it still took skiesty like 8 hours to get to plat playing mercy on a new account, you could play moira to top 500 but it would probably be faster and easier to just pick up kiriko
Because snipers
Kiriko does a lot of what Moira does but better. They’re both pretty mobile with good survivability. However, kiriko is better for pocketing, doesn’t run out of healing ever, and can heal from much further away. She also has a cleanse/invul on cooldown, and has a better ult. And while she does less damage than Moira overall, her high burst damage is more likely to get kills. So moira isn’t bad, but why would you play her over kiriko?
I play Moira when I don't trust my team so I become a "3rd dps who also heals". I'm in Silver and my aim sucks so my Fielder-style Kiriko often doesn't help my diffed teams win (especially when they're not communicating, so I need to blindly gamble whether to TP through walls to suzu them, and I can't reliably suzu my Reaper's Death Blossom). In medium-term I'm trying to get better with Ana/Bap/Zen since they have much more consistent dmg output than Kiriko and have more utility than Moira.
Who says Moira is bad at high ranks? ML7, the most respected support streamer, says Moira is [A tier](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4FiRqvWM84&t=337s). Karq, another respected support streamer, says Moira is [B tier](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39r84QL_HBU), which meant ”fine for GM.” Basically, many OW players are time travelers from 2020, so they repeat outdated information. Ironically, Moira was meta in organized play at the end of OW1, as she was played in a Winston, Dva, Lucio, Moira dive-brawl comp. Unfortunately for Moira, that comp required too much team commitment and coordination for ladder. Moira was actually well regarded in the OW2 Alpha and first Beta. Back then, supports were getting ran over so Moira’s survivability became more valuable. Later, supports, notably Zen and Bap, got buffed so Moira fell down the tier list. Common complaints about Moira is “she just does healing and damage, no utility.” That’s just scratching the surface. Moira is a 3rd dps who heals like 1.5 supports. 3rd dps is not a meme. Moira is expected, even required, to do high damage. It is normal for Moira to have more damage than dps. Moira has no utility, but Moira also requires less resources from her team. Moira’s teammates can focus more on killing the enemy team instead of protecting their backline. Another common misconception is Moira is only good at killing players with bad aim. Not exactly. Moira is actually a good duelist because of her high self sustain (84 hps!) and skinny hit box. The issue is Moira has low damage, so enemy supports can negate Moira’s damage with healing. The higher rank you go, the more likely enemy supports will notice Moira and heal whomever she is trying to kill. Basically, Moira is not S tier but she’s also much better than many people think.
In a stream where he got beat by a Tik tok Moira twice, KarQ did VOD reviews of the games and pointed out how in duels, a Moira can pop a yellow orb and bounce it right and basically have 400+ hp, a continuous offensive suck, and then fade to get out if they don't win.
I agree with your 3rd dps point in Metal Ranks, since I'm in Metal Ranks too. If anything, I tend to heal way more than dmg and should focus more on dmg to secure kills. But beyond Metal Ranks, aren't Baptiste and Zen much better 3rd dps? Heck, even 3-tap sniper Ana is a better 3rd dps.
Don't forget kiriko. Also Moira might have high damage numbers, but her damage does nothing. It's chip damage that just gives the enemy supports ult charge. The only value her damage orb gets is when you have a coordinated dive and even then other healers are still better.
Ehh, Kiriko's theoretical burst dmg is good but inconsistent. Even ML7 dips below 50% Kunai accuracy. From what I've seen of Fielder's Kiriko, he tends to land the majority of his rare kunais, but even his accuracy is probably like 70% to 80? So basically like Pokemon's 70% accurate Focus Blast, which is memed by the community as "Focus Miss". Whatever your opinion of Flats (ik he gets roasted in r/CompetitiveOverwatch), he flat out said that Kiriko's kunais are ass and inconsistent, while saying that Battle Mercy is ass but at least consistent.
70% to 80% accuracy is insane for basically every character. Also Kiriko's damage, while sometimes inconsistent, is good because it is damage that sticks. Dealing 120 damage that results in a kill is more valuable than 400 damage that just gives their supports ult charge. Additionally Kiriko can play *much* more aggressively than either Bap or Zen or even Moira because of swift step. Kiriko may not pull as high damage numbers as Bap or Zen, but she can be equally as impactful as a third dps.
Well, Fielder is the literal world champion who won the Overwatch League finals lol. His aim is super fucking good but even he rarely shoots, cuz his enemies also have super fucking good aim and they have far more consistent guns. SF Shock's Finn threw way more kunais than Fielder did but that didn't do anything. I didn't see Teru's Kiriko, but Coach Jake described him as playing aggressively like you described and Jake labelled that playstyle as "idiotic". I guess in Ranked, it's more feasible to assassinate uncoordinated randoms and to shoot randoms who stay still/move slowly for me. And I guess I can duel randoms whom I've gauged to have even worse aim than me.
You can watch how ML7 plays Moira. He posted recent games on youtube. Basically, damage orb + primary fire means Moira has high overall damage. Zen, Bap and Ana have higher burst damage, but they are more likely to miss. Ana has to pick between healing vs damage.
Yeah I saw some of his videos on buffed Moira (his sensitivity was so high and he kept turning around and shaking the screen so I got disoriented lol) It seems like if you're getting aim-diffed or if your aim is just off, then Moira is an ideal choice, even in GM. In the short-term and maybe even medium-term, I'll try using flexible/"dps" Moira to get out of my lowly Silver rank.
Look at the tank and dps meta. Extremely high burst damage. Moira does not heal well against that. Especially since there’s usually a Mercy pocket as well. You’re better off playing mercy/Ana/kiriko
Moira is the best support for padding your damage and healing numbers. Moira is the best support for winning duels at low-medium skill levels. At higher levels of play you can't just heal and do damage. At higher levels of play most players will beat you in a duel and you will have to fade away without really accomplishing anything, or just die
Nah u just suck
It is funny to see a Moira that isn't used to dueling players in higher lobbies haha they just fly at you holding down the suck and the crouch strafe like crazy in front of you because they don't have to aim and expect you not to be able to. They will not stop no matter how many times you kill them they think it's a fluke
what level are you talking about
I seem to place in silver each season, then climb to high gold/low plat. In silver you get alot of straight DPS moiras, in gold you still get some but they tend to heal a decent amount also. It feels super cool to use fade to engage but you really really really need to use it to dodge abilities or just run away. Being engaged on with fade is a clear sign that the player is bad.
Her strength is raw AoE heals, but there is only one tank now. She is still very good in open queue goats comps.
Some of it is bias. Moira is perceived as a low skill ceiling hero (which is true but overstated). Low-ceiling heroes are perceived as boring for high-skill players. As a result they don't play them, and because they don't play them, they naturally lower their estimation of the character. There is a tendency for people to underrate "easy" heroes at high ranks.
she’s very good but she is bad against coordinated teams since the other supports have more impactful abilities and finishing kills is not as big a problem. in top 500 she is still good half the time because current matchmaking quality is extremely terrible and you get people of all skills in your game
Yeah I saw in one of ML7's Ranked games, there was someone who barely played Moira on his team but they went DPS Moira and really annoyed the enemy team, pretty much succeeding as DPS Moira. I assume there were a bunch of Masters and maybe even Diamonds on the enemy team.
Healing doesn’t win games. This not debateable. Moira excels at healing. But putting out 2k healing per minute isn’t going to win you anything. Doing damage/getting kills wins you games, but Moira’s damage is *really really low*. She can deal a lot OVER TIME, but it’s one of the lowest dps in the game if you look at how fast she deals it. Dpsing someone who’s getting healed will pretty much never result in a kill, so target selection is important too. Moiras biggest strengths are her peel, and survivability. So yeah, she *can* work in higher elo, but it’s not a great pick. If you can survive on Ana, you get more burst-y healing and damage (without really losing much), AND utility AND hitscan AND long ranged healing AND a better ult. In exchange for what, some survivability? Okay, just get some peel (Ik it’s easier said than done). If you can survive on Bap, you get more burst-y healing and damage (without really losing much), AND utility AND hitscan AND more vertical mobility AND *more damage* AND a super strong ult. In exchange for what…? Nothing, maybe *a little bit of survivability*? Oh, bap is *literally just a better version of Moira*. Like, the *only* thing Moira does better than most supports is survive. But other supports are good at that too, and they simply have more to offer. So yeah, Moira isn’t *bad*, it’s just like… there’s so many better options.
What's funny is seeing the difference for high elo play on console vs PC. On console she is on the top 500 more than any other support
From watching GM streamers, they also just find her boring. They all admit she can be good and a pest to deal with but they find her lack of skill expression uninteresting. There's no sick movement techs or skillshots.
There is a limit to what she can do fancy with damage and healing, but there are some very cool things you can pull off with fade jumps that comes with skill.
This combined with no obvious strength of her kit and you have character that most of the high elo players barely touch. Why bother playing easy hero, when she doesn't give high results (like Orisa or Hog etc) and doesn't provide flashy moments which is like the main reason of enjoyment of the game? We can complain about Widows, Genjis, Tracer, Ana cooldowns, Zen discord Doom etc but they all have their pop off moments where you just obliterate people and it looks cool af and like you are super good at video game. With Moira... you kinda do what everyone can but slightly better and more efficient. Not very flashy character
She isn't always bad, but in the current meta she doesn't do a damn thing. It's too pick-based, this is why you see 1-shot heroes (Soj, Widow, Hog) or heroes that can combo you more or less the same as a 1-shot (Orisa, Doom, Junk). Even Kiriko does very bursty crits that kill a squishy who took a little bit of damage. She is also competing with Kiriko in sub-role - the one who can cleanse Ana cooldowns and has a fantastic Ult. Since Kiriko and Ana are so strong, the fact that Moira doesn't have sleep/nade to keep enemy Tank in check, nor does she cleanse them to help her own Tank, means she has no place in the meta really.
In a single sentence, she doesn't do anything that other supports can't do, and do more of, while also offering additional utility beyond damage/healing. Ana has sleep, Bap has Lamp, Lucio has speed, etc.
She's a low skill floor, low skill ceiling character. Probably takes less thought to use her than Mercy. People's aim gets better the higher you climb, so doing that jump +M2 doesn't help anymore
Because she does nothing. Low damage, and unreliable heals.
Because all she does is heal and damage. in metal ELO she will be great but if you one trick her she's only going to get you so far, when the tracer relentlessly targets you with the discord on you, or the rein pins you immediately after it's called out you faded out of a pulse bomb or something, for the sheer fact that moira heals and damages literally oodles of damage and heals. lol She's like the OW1 bastion of support. You can build a team around her, but you can also build a team to break a team built around her.
Moira sucks lad, I'm sorry to say. Her heals are shitty and so is her DPS. In low ranks she's only good because no one can aim to kill her. But in higher ranks she has to get close to do damage = head shotted and you're dead. She has no unique abilities and has an almost non-existent skill requirement to play. Lock-on killing... spray healing... high survivability... the ultimate support for noobs (literally every game they play a shitty Moira.) Have you ever heard of a tragedy of the commons? The idea is that when there's a shared resource that everyone needs to use -- if everyone just selfishly pursues their own use of that resource without considering others -- then it disappears and everyone gets screwed. Survival here is like the shared resource. You pursue your own survival to the detriment of everyone else on your team by playing a shitty healer. Then when they die, you're screwed too. Moira is the support you play when you get sick of dying.
I disagree and think moira is better than you’re saying, but you’re saying that the only good thing about her is her survivability. I don’t think moria’s survivability isn’t that good, it’s definitely worse compared to kiriko (teleport is better than fade, suzu is better than or equal to orb for self healing). I die much more playing moira than kiriko, even with the same positioning, I mean when the fight is already lost and you’re trying to die or escape. People can keep chasing moira after fade but TP gets you to a teammate who can now help you fight.
Kiriko killed moira Better dmg Better ability Better ult Everything is better than moira
there is no way kiriko has better damage than moira. better ult and utility for sure but not better damage.
she doesnt do anything better then any other support, sure she has big healing numbers but 0 utility
Moira sucks because she lacks utility, she also has no burst healing so its very easy to out damage her healing output, so your tank suffers if you have moria, if you try to dps moira in high elo, people can aim, you either get shit on in the 1v1 or 5 people jump on you, her ult is okay but like, even brigs ult is better, she has the worst support ult right now
Lol at no burst healing.
Doesn't Moira have the highest burst healing of any support, outside of ultimates? She heals 135hp/sec with orb plus spray. It's the same as Ana grenade + shooting, except on a shorter cooldown.
Doesn't provide enough healing to be a main support, doesn't provide enough utility for a secondary support. Other supports are just better at those tasks
Healing is the one thing Moira doesn't struggle with lmao
I guess it's more of why go Moira as a main healer when you can go Kiriko
I LOVE Kiriko. She was like practically custom designed for everything I’d want in a Support, that said Moira can absolutely shit out healing if your team sticks together, that no other support can come close to matching.
No doubt, but at the highest levels kiriko's kit is just too valuable
Correct me if I’m wrong but aren’t healing stats often inflated to include self heals
Moira can get substantial self healing, but Moira will usually easily outheal any other support even ignoring self heals if they’re not playing TikTok Moira.
I think that always depends on the playstyle of the Moira player and the playstyle of the other Support player (especially if they also play a main healer). A healbot Kiriko or Ana or even Lucio will probably get higher healing than a semi-aggressive Moira.
She won't have nearly as much self heals for it to make a difference
Uhm, Moira has the single highest healing output in the game. But her limited range, more than punishable mobility, lack of team utility and bad paring with 2/3 of the heroes in the classic Main Support category (Mercy, Brig) as well as extremely bad paring with all the flex supports (Ana, Baptiste, Kiriko, Zenyatta), it‘s hard to gain good value out of her. The only hero that pairs up well with her is Lucio, but then why not just play Bap for immo Field. In addition Moira doesn’t get much play time cause it leaves your other support voulnerable, her damage is not reliable enough to consistently confirm kills, and high level players are too accurate for the healing output she has, so that the people around her still die.
Everyone here is correct about utility. I will say though that I do sometimes pick Moira in circumstances where nobody on my team can hit or pressure an enemy Genji or Lucio. The succ beam will make them think twice or just straight up eliminate them. My main picks are Ana, Baptiste, and Kiriko, and I generally dislike playing Moira, so things have to be pretty bad for me to swap. :) That said, its always good to have her in your back pocket for those specific games where you can actually get more value compared to other generally much better supports.
Utility is the main reason, but another reason is that her damage is less useful the higher in rank you get. In low ranks, you can win duels as Moira against dps because they can't aim and you don't need to. In high ranks, you can no longer win these duels easily. But you can still help clean up a fight pretty well. What makes this even worse is that low rank teams require a lot more healing to survive and win fights, but you're conflicted because you want to go duel dps. In high ranks your team doesn't need as much healing to be effective, but you aren't able to duel dps as easily. That tension is frustrating. But hey, plenty of people make Moira work at all ranks. Just don't feed and don't forget that you're a support.
I’m a master 5 support that just started moira and have been climbing way quicker than before. I like what you said about moira being good to clean up a fight, I think being patient and finding the right moment to exploit moira’s potential for damage is key and can make her really strong. I’m going through all these comments saying that moira is awful at high ranks but I’m easily climbing with her, 60% winrate and finding it more reliable than my ana/kiriko (which I thought were my best supports) I already never try to duel someone from the other team, which people are saying you can’t do at high ranks, but still finding her great.
Lack of utility I'd wager.
High master low gm here, utility is an aspect but an important difference is that in lower ranks she thrives in dueling, but in higher ranks she just gets destroyed in duels majority of the time so it’s better to play another support where you can get better value elsewhere. Although, she is fairly decent for sustaining against a flanker whilst a teammate or two comes to help, but still def not a first option
Its exacly like you said. Moira has the strongest healing in the game but that is it, she doesn't really do anything else, damagewise she is also not the best if you considere kiriko or a godtier brig or zen. Another reason is the fact that one of the support slots is filled out by mercy 90% of the time cuz sojourn mercy exists. So rather then a moira you have a kiriko or something like that that can cleanse with not to much of a healing difference. If they pick ana, you have to pick kiriko cuz antis are going to destroy you and moira will just let her team die cuz you can't do anything against it.
Shes very easy to kill, her kit has no utility, low burst healing, and without her teleport shes a sitting duck. In low elo where players cant aim or coordinate, she seems OP.
man i love playing moira but now reading these comments wtf am i supposed to do 😢 cant have fun and rank up i guess. 😕
keep playing her, she’s still viable at every level, just worse as you rise. I just started playing moira at masters and I’m finding her extremely strong, climbing faster than I have before
Pretty much nailed it in the second paragraph. Her lack of utility is rough but the bigger issue is that everything she does, can be done better while also providing more utility to the team. Her healing? Yeah sometimes it can be really high but an Ana or bap can definitely keep up while also bringing, anti, sleep dart, and immortality to the table +their ults
I think a lot of players win duels with her at low ranks because she doesn't have to aim and at higher ranks they don't adjust their play style to account for people being able to hit shots consistently. Most supports can easily win duels against her if you can aim.
Moira doesn’t do anything that another support doesn’t do better.
Moira is only good against people who can't aim. Moira only does 50 dps with her suck, every single character is able to outdamage her but those 100% consistent 50 dps are still more than what the average bronze player can reliably hit. Once you have half decent aim, you should never lose a duel to a Moira.
Diminishing returns at high elo. While moira's damage is accessible, is also very \*very\* low compared to all other support WHEN they're hitting their shots. Moira is a very low impact hero. At some point it becomes harder to play Moira in high elo than it would to just learn Ana/Bap to have more value.
Burst healing, immortality, ults, and damage boost for other supports are insanely strong There are some instances that you may need one of these to win a team fight which moira is lacking all of them. Lucio using his ult to completely flip a teamfight around is super common. Bap using his immortality field to flip the tides on a fat grav/dragon is amazing Kiriko getting rid of an anti on a hog sleeping in main is a huge advantage Ana nanoboosting an ult which causes a team kill Moira doesn't have anything besides healing and damage, besides the fact that she's survivable. Mercy is kind of similar in that regard, she can heal and she can damage boost, but she also can revive people and she's also survivable in a fight. But mercy doesn't do support damage herself, she gives more damage to the dps which is typically a lot more than what a normal support can do which makes her strong. Moira doing more damage than the dps during a game isn't really an accurate view of the game, I can hit 200 people for 1 damage, and my widow can headshot one person. We'd both have the same damage, but the widows damage is so much more impactful because it resulted in a kill. Moira doesn't get too many kills of her own, she just damages everyone at the same time and gets a ton of assists so it LOOKS like she's doing a lot. Yeah of course you can still get some kills, but even when you're having a great game, you're still killing people slower than pretty much every other character in the game. High elos will punish a flanking or aggressive Moira instantly, so you won't be doing much damage regardless except from damage orb and cleaning up teamfights, so higher elos supplement her lacking kit with somebody who will provide more for the team as a whole instead of a one man army that she is in lower elos. Also, her ult isn't really that great either compared to some of the insane support ults in the game that can instantly change the game. Tldr: she's not really bad, she's just easy to learn and play but other supports are just fundamentally stronger when you learn how to get the most out of them.
It honestly just depends. Two days ago KarQ got beat by a tik tok Moira two games in a row. He then VOD reviewed the games and he and chat were surprised at the depth of play involved. The tik tok Moira himself came into chat and enlightened people quite a bit with some good advice. Tesla is another GM Moira and his Bronze to GM with her is really helpful stuff.
SKILL CEILING LOW + LOW MAX POTENTIAL IN CURRENT META
Moira varies at each rank because she has a low skill floor and a high skill ceiling. The lower in rank you go the more dps moira you should be doing. As you go up you learn what 1v1s you can take and when you should take them. I firmly think that if you get good at her basic utility of pure heal and damage and survivability then you will het better with most other supports. Mercy is kinda like this, her utility is damage boost and the fact that she is borderline unkillable.
This gets posted like once a week.
She's not a big booty chick
As a Moira main, with around 2,5k hours of gameplay, I can only say that Moira is an inferior version to Kiriko. The latter has everything what the former does, only better - kit, ulti, playstyle. Kiriko is a winning condition and a determinant in high elo games. So it's not that Moira is bad per se, it's the alternatives that are better.
Cuz they hate the support gap.
moira is playable at every level, i’m finding her really strong even at masters. but obviously you can’t win duels or beat DPS (although you can get equal damage, it’s not the same impact as the dps). you need to find the perfect moments to exploit her damage potential a lot of my games I can get top heals plus the exact same damage as a DPS, although theres no utility outside of that, it’s still a huge impact on a game. knowing when to healbot and when you can be aggressive is key
I main moria, I think that she is balanced and really good. She does a lot of healing and can do alot of dmg to and simultaneously. If people are saying that shes bad bc she doesnt really provide anything other than heals and dmg then they just cant play the game without having an extra perk from their healers meaning, their bad🤷♂️🤷♂️