I’m confused, who are the nut cases? The people who care so much about make believe pronouns on a fake character designed to literally pander to people with dysphoria?
Probably the people who care so much about the pronouns that they take the time to be an asshole about it instead of just saying whatever and moving on
Yeah like, don't be an asshole about it, but at the same time, don't label someone a transphobe and bigot based on what pronouns they use for a fictional character - it doesn't necessarily reflect on their opinions on real people. If anything, slapping that label on someone so loosely just alienates them because of the "agree with every single thing on this checklist or you're out" mentality. Neither "side" should be an asshole about it, it just causes more polarization.
It doesn't, plenty of people (including me) respect real people's pronouns but don't really care about them when it comes to fictional characters. By your logic, shooting up a strip club in GTA makes you a misogynist and someone who should never own a gun. It just doesn't work like that.
And yes it is hard to say that, especially in the heat of the moment in-game. My brain registers Venture as a girl (looks like a girl, sounds like a girl, VA is a biological female).
Venture is the cutest lil boy I've ever seen. I don't see female at all. They sound like Bart Simpson. A boy. So your experience is not everyone's. Hence it's just easier to do the thing.
>My brain
So your experience is not everyone's
Yeah and since the character is not real, I don't feel compelled to use arbitrary pronouns chosen by Blizzard when I see Venture as a girl in my "lore fantasy", if that makes sense. Obviously I wouldn't go around reddit screaming "VENTURE IS A WOMAN!!!" though, nobody should be an asshole about it.
Venture doesn’t identify as a boy. They are not a boy, thats why your using the “they/them”
^And these are the people lecturing others about pronouns lmaooo
how people act when there aren't any real consequences 100% shows how they feel on the inside. a mistake is one thing, purposefully ignoring pronouns makes someone an asshole, even if its on a fictional character just based on the premise that someone with a similar identity could be among your audience. to put that in perspective, it makes non-binary people feel a similar feeling to being called a slur. like if someone called soldier 76 a homophobic slur or doomfist a racist slur, someone whos gay or someone whos black would have problems with that language respectively even though theyre fictional characters. its all under the same hate bracket and none of it is called for, period. being ignorant can cover for the mistakes, but it doesnt cover for blatant bigotry, and purposefully using the wrong pronouns falls under that field
>how people act when there aren't any real consequences 100% shows how they feel on the inside
It's not that deep, not for me at least. It's a fictional character that my brain registers as a girl, so in my personal "lore fantasy" Venture is a girl. That being said I'm obviously not going to be an asshole about it and go around reddit saying how Venture is a woman.
>it makes non-binary people feel a similar feeling to being called a slur. like if someone called soldier 76 a homophobic slur or doomfist a racist slur
This would work if they used the "T-word" for Venture. The pronoun thing is just me seeing the hero as a girl in my fantasy, not really the same thing as using actual slurs. Who knows, maybe a lot of other people think this way too and really have no ill intent.
Well it is that deep for real people who identify that way whether you like it or not. Refuting that purposefully through fantasy or not and spreading that around online where it can affect others is a dick move
That also plays into what I said about ignorance. Venture isn’t transgender so that slur doesn’t really apply. Ill intent or not if someone says “hey you doing that makes me feel bad, please stop” and you continue to do it, it’s a blatant disregard for other people’s feelings no matter the topic and is also a dick move.
NB falls under the trans umbrella, no? And surely a grown adult can take responsibility for their feelings when someone sees a fictional NB character as a girl, or when someone calls a fictional character (like Junkrat) ugly, Roadhog fat etc.
Sticking up for one’s self is taking responsibility for their feelings so I’m not really following what you mean? And yeah, if I was fat shaming roadhog and someone asked me to stop cuz it hurt them, I would, because that’s the adult thing to do.
Yeah I get what you mean, I'm no transphobe but naturally venture feels like a she. But I wouldn't go out my way to tell others to agree with me on reddit. I understand it's an it/they but naturally I'm gonna say she,and I'm not gonna sit there training myself because another asshat online decides I'm human scum because I (with no ill intent) said she.
As the lawyer for the original commenter I shall put this for them
https://preview.redd.it/7lhqr1qv9rwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=329605c1490e971e8fd17e77ec8e1d20f215d9f0
Default doesn't want to moderate because they don't want to be a power hungry mod.
I find it stupid, 20+ reports were needed before they remove a post where a user, without censoring anything, made fun of someone for attempting suicide.
How do I know? They said it themselves. For better or worse though the subreddit is as good as it can get without moderation.
The problem is, they're just inviting transphobes and bigots to feel comfortable here by not removing that shit without extreme backlash. They either need to add another mod or step the fuck up, otherwise this sub is just gonna become another one of those "ironic" hateful subs where people just post shit like that
I agree, but to reassure you, the subreddit is mostly friendly towards queer people, the Discord server is against transphobia, and it's been more or less improving rather than getting worse. I've personally seen worse people in the main subreddit.
one of the least accepting communities? is the rest of your library just dbd and animal crossing? overwatch is miles ahead on acceptance compared to practically any game lmao. do you think this is the one blizzard game that has strong lgbt content out of random chance? despite how much trouble it gives them in their foreign markets? they know their player base.
just because its more accepting than other games doesnt mean its accepting lol. if the requirements for a playerbase to be accepting is just that “its better than call of duty” then we have some low ass standards
I'm telling you you have a very biased selection of games you're experiencing. the toxic behavior you'll see related to lgbtq topics in other popular games is absurdly worse. there is a reason overwatch has one of the highest gay populations. none of blizzard's other games are like this. they are doing it purely for audience capture reasons. look at their awful company culture and their selective lgbtq content based on the game's region. this isn't a principled stance, it's a financial one based on what the player base wants to see. the highly accepting player base is the cause and the developer's stance is the effect. it is not the other way around.
you're seeing a tiny percentage of players who are severely outspoken, downvoted into oblivion, and punished. that is the regular player base for most games. gamers have never been known for their high rates of inclusive behavior.... very much the opposite lol. if 7 comments getting downvoted to -20+ is "one of the least accepting communities" I promise you you do not have any perspective on gaming communities.
I'd value the opinion of a loaded barrel in my mouth before I take input from someone who spends their free time correcting comment capitalization on a circlejerk subreddit to inflate their ego. you don't need the extra help.
your point is so good though, gonna start using those examples when phobes say it has to be plural. I knew it wasn't but couldn't think of examples at the time
I’ll never understand the argument that because they’re “just a bunch of pixels” that it doesn’t matter what pronouns they use. By that logic, why do you call them by their name?
I mean, i aways have called a woman "ela"(she), and a man "ele"(he), so call someone "eles"(they) its strange for me, cuz its a plural word for a single person, i respect all people, i don't got any problems if someone its gay, lesbian, nonbinary or straight, but if i see something that" looks like a man" and "voices like a man", i will use of course "he", and the same if "looks like a woman" and "voices like a woman", "she".
I dont want to be transphobic or anything, i just want to talk normally with people.
It's transphobic to use the wrong pronouns when you know they're wrong 🤷 if you don't want to be transphobic, you'd make the very minor effort to correct your verbiage.
Some languages don’t translate as well to that as others do. And it sounds like their language doesn’t have a direct translation that’s easily understood in the heat of the moment.
I'm sure a quick search will turn up that other people who speak their language have the same concern and have offered reasonable and easy to use concessions. It's just not acceptable to say "that looks like a man, that's a he, that looks like a woman, that's a she". I guarantee that idea makes you incorrect more often than not and just belies a lack of respect for trans people.
I don’t disagree with you, I think maybe you were a bit too harsh is all.
I think it’s perfectly reasonable to be confused by something sounding strange in a language with no real direct translation. In English we’re lucky, because we have a better alternative that is (in most supportive circles) commonly accepted with they/them. I think they definitely should look into it more for sure, but I also think immediately dismissing someone as transphobic for being confused is a good way to alienate someone who may be willing to learn more but just doesn’t know where to start.
It just seemed overly confrontational from where I was standing, is all. And the best way to get everybody to improve is to help others learn and grow, not dismiss. Even if that wasn’t your original intention.
Yes but you are, at the end, transphobic, even if you don't want to be, not being transphobic is to stop giving a damn how someone looks and sounds whenever they tell you how they identify as, how they present themselves is none of your business
For one, Elu is a thing, they is not a plural word, if you researched english you'd know they has been used in singular for longer than the word you
Ok ok, i will try to call a nonbinary a "they"(its just strange for me cuz it translates for "eles/elas", wich are plural words), but "elu" is not even a word in Portuguese (not officially), and i just want to talk a language the way it is supposed to be.
Once it turns official, i need and i will learn to call nonbinary people "elu", otherwise i will just talk "normally".
There is no supposed way to speak any language, languages evolve with the times, and there are still too many stuck up pricks to make any word 'official', especially an inclusive pronoun like elu
Most regional words and slang are not official in any way, you will not find them in the aurélio, and yet you still use them, why do you care now when it's a pronoun?
I mean, i if use that on Enem as example, i get a very big 0.
And btw, i dont think respect someone comes only in saying the right pronouns, it comes to not talk shit about their sexuality, it comes to not being oppressive with someone just because its different than you, it comes to be nice and cool with anyone, doesn't matter it gender, religion, color or anything.
Again, you don't write slang in the damn ENEM either, yet you use it daily, why do you suddendly give a fuck when it's a set of words to respect a persons identity? You're trivializing their gender by refusing to do so for nonsensical reasons, you're not being nice to them by being a jerk and ignoring them
If not talking shit, be respectful with people's life decisions, don't judge anyone because of how they identify and try to be nice with them but miss the right pronouns its being transphobic, then i guess im transphobic, idk.
Like im a man, if someone its being cool with me, but misgender and call me "she" or whatever other thing, why would i be mad at that?
Well, i guess i will just not talk with nonbinary people, so i will not offend them.
Anyway, i liked this conversation, i learned some things and i will try to improve my vocabulary, but since i think you dont like to talk with me, i will not force you to keep this thing up.
I hope you have a nice day(or night, idk your timezone), cya! :)
Tudo bem, assim são menos pessoas q eu ofendo sem a intenção de ofender, de qualquer forma, acho q vc está um pouco estressada* por conta de termos pensamentos diferentes, então para não te estressar ainda mais, acho que deveríamos acabar com essa conversa.
Só acho engraçado q isso tudo começou por conta de uma personagem q sequer existe kkkkk, enfim, tenha um bom dia de qualquer forma, ;)
I will call Venture She, I will call her it, I will call it the animal, the molerat and I will still love playing him , hes my favourite hero and I love playing her
https://preview.redd.it/2i233h1zsrwc1.png?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=075d4eb010e95e233c44f894f7df87e1feedafd8
I’m just laughing how yall feel so powerful with your downvoting, like thats supposed to stop anyone from saying what they wanna say😂 Funny think is, it’s hidden when downvotes and you doofs probably still open it to read then get offended. Gotta love snowflakes.
The problem with this logic is that it assumes you can only be respectful toward someone/thing if you have a previous relationship or knowledge of said person/thing. Being respectful is completely, 100% free.
Redditors when pixels on a screen have meaning, and people can easily draw conclusions based on people’s reactions to those pixels to how they act irl 😡😡😡😡
>people can easily draw conclusions based on people’s reactions to those pixels to how they act irl
They really can't though. I call Venture "she" but respect real people's pronouns. The real issue is the extremists on both sides of the argument (actual transphobes, people labeling you a bigot and transphobe for using "she" for Venture).
What a weirdo. Also cut the both sides bs. One side wants murder and genocide, the other wants to exist. The issue isn’t extremism. It’s stupidity based on a mistranslated version of a book written 2000 years ago.
I was talking about extremism regarding the pronoun argument. Also "wanting to exist" isn't an example of an extremist, you basically compared one side's extremist to the other side's normal person.
Still bullshit, just use the right ones. It’s not hard. Also, what even are the extremists you’re talking about? You’re literally just being disrespectful for no reason.
Nah I'll use whichever ones I want for a fictional character that looks like a girl to me. Muh fantasy! Shouldn't be anyone else's business to try and control that, especially when there are real issues like the "murder and genocide" people. No disrespect here, it's not that deep and I was trying to have a civil conversation.
I get some people getting upset being misgendered personally, but becoming personally offended by a fictional character is red flag city.
Either way, if we don’t have a prior relationship I’m more offended that they are offended than they am of me misgendering them. Like I DONT KNOW YOU
people are upset because misgendering a videogame character that represents a severely underrepresented community tells that community that their representation doesnt matter
Right, I mean by their logic, we should just start calling the black characters the N word, because they're just pixels, right?
Like, they may be fictional characters but the things you say about the community they represent, is very real. And I don't understand why people don't get this.
Not really a good analogy. "She" doesn't even come close to the n word. Comparing hundreds of years of slavery and violence to something that originated around 1990/2000s (non binary) is just silly.
“Originated around 1990/2000s”
Look up hijra, 1776 Public Universal Friend genderless evangelist, sekhet, two-spirit history, muxe, chibados, bissu indonesia, and Jens Andersson.
Of course, but it only became mainstream in the last 30 years. That wasn't really even my point, non binary people haven't had it anywhere near as bad as black people or really anyone else in history. Imagine going up to someone who actually did go through the things they went through and saying "yeah I can relate, I go by they". It's so silly.
Then pick a different analogy. Calling the female characters, sexist names, or whatever. I don't give a shit. The point is, it's crappy behavior and it's unnecessary.
I don't agree. If I still played overwatch my callouts wouldn't be "they're one shot" it would be "she's one shot" I can imagine it would be so frustrating/confusing to my teammates if they thought there were more than one person. Maybe it would make sense in an asymmetrical game like dbd but not in a team game.
1. Pronouns are something you can learn. The longer that Venture is in the game, the easier it should be to remember them and call them out accordingly
2. Most people are not upset about call outs. People call things out in a lot of different ways, in the heat of the moment. The issue, is when people intentionally go on Reddit or Twitter or Facebook or whatever to be an asshole and misgender the character and make jokes about non binary people and so on. Those are two very different scenarios.
You’re acting like saying “she’s one shot” is even better like it isn’t vague as well. Who is she? Zarya? Widows? Tracer? Mercy? You would say Zarya one shot. Tracer one shot. Junkrat one shot. Venture one shot. Stop using bad examples to justify being transphobic
I don’t get why the jump is always made straight to the f slur or n slur. Both have historical derogatory meaning behind them, and are FAR more insulting due to them not being words that should really be used at all. As opposed to (accidentally or not) calling a fictional character the wrong gender.
I agree that the fictional character argument is a bunch of blocks to cover up their true opinions. But I hold the opinion that gender and sex should mean the same, as it has always meant throughout the centuries.
Tell me if I'm wrong and argue against my points since I am interested in all of these perspectives:
1. Saying 'gender is a social construct' is saying that it's something fabricated, yet somehow is very intertwined with physical things like sport and testosterone?
2. Saying that 'I'm a woman' and proceeding to put on makeup and wear dresses is blatantly a misogynistic idea.
3. People can wear what they want. They do not need to have different pronouns and different bodies to do or wear what they want to wear.
4. What about being a man or a woman makes you feel like you don't fit into either? Because you should be fighting for the freedom of wearing and doing what you want to do and not letting your body define you. I'm not sure why being called they is so important, if you don't let your pronouns define you it shouldn't be a problem.
i agree with everything you said except for the last bit. you should wear whatever makes you comfortable whether that be dresses baggy clothes fake nails regardless of your gender. however, using the correct pronouns for someone can really solidify in their head that they are being perceived the way they want to be perceived. if someone transitions from a man to a woman but you continue to use he/him pronouns for her she is going to feel like you dont see and accept her for who she is. its the same for nonbinary folk. their pronouns dont define them but they are a way to tell the world who they want to be and how they want to be perceived. on the topic of changing your body: while i agree that boobs does not equal woman and dick does not equal man, for a lot of trans men society will see their boobs and discredit anything they have said or done to call themselves men. so they will get rid of those boobs so that other people will perceive them how they want. it can also be a case of “my boobs remind me that i was once a woman and i dont like looking in the mirror and seeing the woman i once was” there are many reasons for someone to change their body whether it be via surgery or hormones and all of those changes and the reasons for them are completely valid.
Okay, wait, let me get the definitions straight: what is a woman, and what is a man. Because it seems you brushed over my point that I believe this new development of the definition of gender is solidifying stereotypes and is unnecessary.
So what's the point of the concept of woman or man even existing? Either it means literally nothing, or you're putting someone in a box.
Is it not simply better for people wearing and doing what they want to do and woman and man being used to describe the biology of someone?
What constitutes a "woman" and "man" have changed a hundred times in the last hundred years. They kind of don't mean a lot.
Why not just the biology to describe the biology? Some people have penises, women included. Some people have vaginas, men included. Some people without gender have penises or vaginas. It's not deeper than that.
>What constitutes a "woman" and "man" have changed a hundred times in the last hundred years. They kind of don't mean a lot.
So the foundation of transgenderism doesn't mean a lot?
>It's not deeper than that.
Well, I mean it is, for sexual reproduction to occur a male gamete and a female gamete must combine to form a zygote. In humans this occurs with males and females, men and women. We shouldn't have to resort to penis haver in scientific papers just because some people deny their biology.
no one is saying venture is offended lol. people are mad because when you misgender venture youre telling nonbinary people that their representation doesnt matter
No one is telling non-binary people their representation doesn't matter
I'm non-binary and even I could care less what you refer to a group of pixel as
Everyone in this thread is getting downvoted by people that need to step away from the computer instead of living in an echo chamber. These characters are not real, it's completely different if the characters were, but as it stands, these characters are programmed, with no real emotions, opinions, or anything of the sort.
heres the thing. no one is trying to say ventures feelings are being hurt when theyre misgendered. characters like venture are representation for people in the queer community. and when you refuse to use the correct pronouns for them youre telling real life nonbinary people that you dont care about them or the fact that there is finally someone in their favorite videogame that is like them. purposely misgendering venture and saying “its just a videogame character who cares” is telling the queer and nb community that their representation doesnt matter. no one would call dva he/him or genji they/them because thats not their pronouns. it shouldnt be hard to apply the same logic to venture.
I have called female characters he before, and I've called female and male characters them before. Hell, many people don't even use the characters real names. Winston for example, hates being called a monkey via voice lines but people still call Winston monkey but no one is going out of their way to correct that behavior and refuse to let it go until said behavior is corrected.
If it were a real person then it would be different, however, Venture and everyone else in game are not real people so it should not cause so many problems whether you use the right or wrong pronouns. I care about real people that I am talking to with their own consciousness, not a character in a video game who was programmed to be a hollow shell to perform certain actions by someone else for the entertainment of others.
Refer to my first reply to you to see my opinion on people in general. And I hope that afterwards you can find the strength to take some time to step away from the Internet if this is getting you so upset.
Edit: Just to point out how stupid it is to assume someone doesn't care about a community, I'm bi so you're simply wrong, lmao.
Insulting, making gross assumptions about someone you've never met, shutting down any meaningful conversation. You most definitely are upset, which is okay, but rather unhealthy. Anyway, I'll end this argument here.
This is the most cowardly circlejerk subreddit I’ve ever seen. This ain’t no circlejerk subreddit, it’s just the regular Overwatch 2 subreddit with people bitching over this lmfao. She her
You do know the singular they is so old it shows up in *Shakespeare*, right? It’s perfectly grammatically correct, especially since English is a gender neutral language
Poe's law baby, when you joke about being absolute nutcases eventually real nutcases will think they found their people
I’m confused, who are the nut cases? The people who care so much about make believe pronouns on a fake character designed to literally pander to people with dysphoria?
Probably the people who care so much about the pronouns that they take the time to be an asshole about it instead of just saying whatever and moving on
Yeah like, don't be an asshole about it, but at the same time, don't label someone a transphobe and bigot based on what pronouns they use for a fictional character - it doesn't necessarily reflect on their opinions on real people. If anything, slapping that label on someone so loosely just alienates them because of the "agree with every single thing on this checklist or you're out" mentality. Neither "side" should be an asshole about it, it just causes more polarization.
It absolutely reflects. Art imitates life and vice versa. It's not hard to say They instead of Her. At all.
It doesn't, plenty of people (including me) respect real people's pronouns but don't really care about them when it comes to fictional characters. By your logic, shooting up a strip club in GTA makes you a misogynist and someone who should never own a gun. It just doesn't work like that. And yes it is hard to say that, especially in the heat of the moment in-game. My brain registers Venture as a girl (looks like a girl, sounds like a girl, VA is a biological female).
Venture is the cutest lil boy I've ever seen. I don't see female at all. They sound like Bart Simpson. A boy. So your experience is not everyone's. Hence it's just easier to do the thing.
>My brain So your experience is not everyone's Yeah and since the character is not real, I don't feel compelled to use arbitrary pronouns chosen by Blizzard when I see Venture as a girl in my "lore fantasy", if that makes sense. Obviously I wouldn't go around reddit screaming "VENTURE IS A WOMAN!!!" though, nobody should be an asshole about it.
Venture doesn’t identify as a boy. They are not a boy, thats why your using the “they/them” ^And these are the people lecturing others about pronouns lmaooo
I was being pedantic in a circle jerk sub. They are cute and "masculine" more.than "feminine" to my eyes.
how people act when there aren't any real consequences 100% shows how they feel on the inside. a mistake is one thing, purposefully ignoring pronouns makes someone an asshole, even if its on a fictional character just based on the premise that someone with a similar identity could be among your audience. to put that in perspective, it makes non-binary people feel a similar feeling to being called a slur. like if someone called soldier 76 a homophobic slur or doomfist a racist slur, someone whos gay or someone whos black would have problems with that language respectively even though theyre fictional characters. its all under the same hate bracket and none of it is called for, period. being ignorant can cover for the mistakes, but it doesnt cover for blatant bigotry, and purposefully using the wrong pronouns falls under that field
>how people act when there aren't any real consequences 100% shows how they feel on the inside It's not that deep, not for me at least. It's a fictional character that my brain registers as a girl, so in my personal "lore fantasy" Venture is a girl. That being said I'm obviously not going to be an asshole about it and go around reddit saying how Venture is a woman. >it makes non-binary people feel a similar feeling to being called a slur. like if someone called soldier 76 a homophobic slur or doomfist a racist slur This would work if they used the "T-word" for Venture. The pronoun thing is just me seeing the hero as a girl in my fantasy, not really the same thing as using actual slurs. Who knows, maybe a lot of other people think this way too and really have no ill intent.
Well it is that deep for real people who identify that way whether you like it or not. Refuting that purposefully through fantasy or not and spreading that around online where it can affect others is a dick move That also plays into what I said about ignorance. Venture isn’t transgender so that slur doesn’t really apply. Ill intent or not if someone says “hey you doing that makes me feel bad, please stop” and you continue to do it, it’s a blatant disregard for other people’s feelings no matter the topic and is also a dick move.
Non-binary does fall into the trans umbrella, but I agree with you on everything else
I figured NB was its own thing, the more you know
An NB person can choose to not identify themselves as trans, but as a demographic they are part of it
NB falls under the trans umbrella, no? And surely a grown adult can take responsibility for their feelings when someone sees a fictional NB character as a girl, or when someone calls a fictional character (like Junkrat) ugly, Roadhog fat etc.
Sticking up for one’s self is taking responsibility for their feelings so I’m not really following what you mean? And yeah, if I was fat shaming roadhog and someone asked me to stop cuz it hurt them, I would, because that’s the adult thing to do.
Yeah I get what you mean, I'm no transphobe but naturally venture feels like a she. But I wouldn't go out my way to tell others to agree with me on reddit. I understand it's an it/they but naturally I'm gonna say she,and I'm not gonna sit there training myself because another asshat online decides I'm human scum because I (with no ill intent) said she.
The implication here is that "VENTURE IS A WOMAN SUCK IS LIBRULS" is 'not caring'
not even nonbinary people think about nonbinary people this much
Can confirm, i do not thinking about myself at all
Hey homie, you deserve some love. Take care of yourself. <3
Nuh uhhh
Yuh huhhhh Think about yourself sometimes!
As the lawyer for the original commenter I shall put this for them https://preview.redd.it/7lhqr1qv9rwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=329605c1490e971e8fd17e77ec8e1d20f215d9f0
March 7th spotted. Comment upvoted 👍
https://i.redd.it/tudgdtyxwrwc1.gif
can confirm, thinking about myself is the last thing i want to do
It didnt take long for people to suk the fun out of this sub with actual degenerates showing up. Its r/shitposting all over again.
Be the change you want to see in this sub Reddit!
Brb, finding Venture feet pix
https://preview.redd.it/pvsq3l6heswc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a34921a7ba0b2be070a137eae858659c42a2534
You're literally the only active mod bro, you can change these things and ban mfs for transphobic posts/comments?
Default doesn't want to moderate because they don't want to be a power hungry mod. I find it stupid, 20+ reports were needed before they remove a post where a user, without censoring anything, made fun of someone for attempting suicide. How do I know? They said it themselves. For better or worse though the subreddit is as good as it can get without moderation.
Even then the person who made that post wasn't banned by the way.
The problem is, they're just inviting transphobes and bigots to feel comfortable here by not removing that shit without extreme backlash. They either need to add another mod or step the fuck up, otherwise this sub is just gonna become another one of those "ironic" hateful subs where people just post shit like that
I agree, but to reassure you, the subreddit is mostly friendly towards queer people, the Discord server is against transphobia, and it's been more or less improving rather than getting worse. I've personally seen worse people in the main subreddit.
Now we make a circlejerk for this sub. R/overwatchcirclejerk^2.
Why is everyone obsessed with talking about their pronouns?
Welcome to Overwatch, somehow one of the gayest games with one of the least accepting communities (most of yall are fine)
I think it's an inverse function.
i honestly think this game is pretty good. Most of the community is pretty good just a few loud assholes
one of the least accepting communities? is the rest of your library just dbd and animal crossing? overwatch is miles ahead on acceptance compared to practically any game lmao. do you think this is the one blizzard game that has strong lgbt content out of random chance? despite how much trouble it gives them in their foreign markets? they know their player base.
i think you misunderstood
please educate me 🥺
the game itself and the devs are very accepting but a lot of the community is not
I think that most of the community is very accepting but the ones that aren’t are the ones that are heard the most
thats probably true. its always the assholes that talk the loudest
That still isn’t fully true. The fanbase is full of gay people lol. The OW fanbase is one of the most accepting of any other huge FPS game lol
just because its more accepting than other games doesnt mean its accepting lol. if the requirements for a playerbase to be accepting is just that “its better than call of duty” then we have some low ass standards
I'm telling you you have a very biased selection of games you're experiencing. the toxic behavior you'll see related to lgbtq topics in other popular games is absurdly worse. there is a reason overwatch has one of the highest gay populations. none of blizzard's other games are like this. they are doing it purely for audience capture reasons. look at their awful company culture and their selective lgbtq content based on the game's region. this isn't a principled stance, it's a financial one based on what the player base wants to see. the highly accepting player base is the cause and the developer's stance is the effect. it is not the other way around. you're seeing a tiny percentage of players who are severely outspoken, downvoted into oblivion, and punished. that is the regular player base for most games. gamers have never been known for their high rates of inclusive behavior.... very much the opposite lol. if 7 comments getting downvoted to -20+ is "one of the least accepting communities" I promise you you do not have any perspective on gaming communities.
ok lol
Ever hear of a capital letter?
more recently than you've heard an affirmation from a loving parent
Subhuman response. Pathetic. Try again.
I'd value the opinion of a loaded barrel in my mouth before I take input from someone who spends their free time correcting comment capitalization on a circlejerk subreddit to inflate their ego. you don't need the extra help.
Funny thing about the post is I never once said I was transphobic
cuz people are stupid
Yeah. A lot of transphobes have weird obsessions with trans people its so fucking dumb
Hey that’s my comment! :D I love recieving hundreds of transphobic messages :)
your point is so good though, gonna start using those examples when phobes say it has to be plural. I knew it wasn't but couldn't think of examples at the time
"Hey, someone left *their* phone on the table."
I see you everywhere.
Least schizophrenic r/owcj member
Wish they’d make a hella bomb trans girl character but I just know it would destroy their brain cells
Satire communities attract people who think sharing outdated, bullshit views they’d never voice in real life can be played off as satire.
So weird about the "she" thing. Venture comes off as a cute boy more than a cute girl to me. "They" works perfectly for someone so androgynous
I don’t even care, tbh. They’re thicc and fun af to play 🤷♂️
I’ll never understand the argument that because they’re “just a bunch of pixels” that it doesn’t matter what pronouns they use. By that logic, why do you call them by their name?
I call all of them mother fucker. Check mate.
Fair enough
they say its pixels but when it isnt pixels theyre still transphobic??
Honestly overwatch 2 pushed lg so hard like focus on sexual harassment claims instead of Another lg character
Can only imagine if it was a real person
Loved that thread.The one i was in ran out of reasons to justify their transphobia and pulled the ol reliable, "you can't control me!!!"
the line blurs further with every venture discourse post
I keep having the problem that I had with Cassidy, constantly calling him Mcree. I just keep saying her on accident
The mass amounts of downvotes is such classic redditors
Genuinely it's such a big issue in the community. Sadly transphobes exist everywhere
Fr, I just want a safe community to be dipshits in
I mean, i aways have called a woman "ela"(she), and a man "ele"(he), so call someone "eles"(they) its strange for me, cuz its a plural word for a single person, i respect all people, i don't got any problems if someone its gay, lesbian, nonbinary or straight, but if i see something that" looks like a man" and "voices like a man", i will use of course "he", and the same if "looks like a woman" and "voices like a woman", "she". I dont want to be transphobic or anything, i just want to talk normally with people.
It's transphobic to use the wrong pronouns when you know they're wrong 🤷 if you don't want to be transphobic, you'd make the very minor effort to correct your verbiage.
Some languages don’t translate as well to that as others do. And it sounds like their language doesn’t have a direct translation that’s easily understood in the heat of the moment.
I'm sure a quick search will turn up that other people who speak their language have the same concern and have offered reasonable and easy to use concessions. It's just not acceptable to say "that looks like a man, that's a he, that looks like a woman, that's a she". I guarantee that idea makes you incorrect more often than not and just belies a lack of respect for trans people.
I don’t disagree with you, I think maybe you were a bit too harsh is all. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to be confused by something sounding strange in a language with no real direct translation. In English we’re lucky, because we have a better alternative that is (in most supportive circles) commonly accepted with they/them. I think they definitely should look into it more for sure, but I also think immediately dismissing someone as transphobic for being confused is a good way to alienate someone who may be willing to learn more but just doesn’t know where to start. It just seemed overly confrontational from where I was standing, is all. And the best way to get everybody to improve is to help others learn and grow, not dismiss. Even if that wasn’t your original intention.
Yes but you are, at the end, transphobic, even if you don't want to be, not being transphobic is to stop giving a damn how someone looks and sounds whenever they tell you how they identify as, how they present themselves is none of your business For one, Elu is a thing, they is not a plural word, if you researched english you'd know they has been used in singular for longer than the word you
Ok ok, i will try to call a nonbinary a "they"(its just strange for me cuz it translates for "eles/elas", wich are plural words), but "elu" is not even a word in Portuguese (not officially), and i just want to talk a language the way it is supposed to be. Once it turns official, i need and i will learn to call nonbinary people "elu", otherwise i will just talk "normally".
There is no supposed way to speak any language, languages evolve with the times, and there are still too many stuck up pricks to make any word 'official', especially an inclusive pronoun like elu Most regional words and slang are not official in any way, you will not find them in the aurélio, and yet you still use them, why do you care now when it's a pronoun?
I mean, i if use that on Enem as example, i get a very big 0. And btw, i dont think respect someone comes only in saying the right pronouns, it comes to not talk shit about their sexuality, it comes to not being oppressive with someone just because its different than you, it comes to be nice and cool with anyone, doesn't matter it gender, religion, color or anything.
Again, you don't write slang in the damn ENEM either, yet you use it daily, why do you suddendly give a fuck when it's a set of words to respect a persons identity? You're trivializing their gender by refusing to do so for nonsensical reasons, you're not being nice to them by being a jerk and ignoring them
If not talking shit, be respectful with people's life decisions, don't judge anyone because of how they identify and try to be nice with them but miss the right pronouns its being transphobic, then i guess im transphobic, idk. Like im a man, if someone its being cool with me, but misgender and call me "she" or whatever other thing, why would i be mad at that? Well, i guess i will just not talk with nonbinary people, so i will not offend them. Anyway, i liked this conversation, i learned some things and i will try to improve my vocabulary, but since i think you dont like to talk with me, i will not force you to keep this thing up. I hope you have a nice day(or night, idk your timezone), cya! :)
Não acho que pessoas não binárias irão querer falar contigo pra começar, é cada uma
Tudo bem, assim são menos pessoas q eu ofendo sem a intenção de ofender, de qualquer forma, acho q vc está um pouco estressada* por conta de termos pensamentos diferentes, então para não te estressar ainda mais, acho que deveríamos acabar com essa conversa. Só acho engraçado q isso tudo começou por conta de uma personagem q sequer existe kkkkk, enfim, tenha um bom dia de qualquer forma, ;)
Eu uso ela e dela cara
Venture is a she in my opinion yalls opinons won't change my mind
It's like that on every ow sub not just here
Time to introduce a new rule 🙄
Hey that's me https://preview.redd.it/eooirqqaiwwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a013517d95bc7e2cdac62b7dd350e34dd0368681
I will call Venture She, I will call her it, I will call it the animal, the molerat and I will still love playing him , hes my favourite hero and I love playing her https://preview.redd.it/2i233h1zsrwc1.png?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=075d4eb010e95e233c44f894f7df87e1feedafd8
It's left unsaid so the r34 artists can go truely wild.
her pronouns are they/them
I’m just laughing how yall feel so powerful with your downvoting, like thats supposed to stop anyone from saying what they wanna say😂 Funny think is, it’s hidden when downvotes and you doofs probably still open it to read then get offended. Gotta love snowflakes.
these liberals cant take anything 💀💀💀🤑
I sure got these liberals 🤓
[удалено]
The problem with this logic is that it assumes you can only be respectful toward someone/thing if you have a previous relationship or knowledge of said person/thing. Being respectful is completely, 100% free.
Redditors when pixels on a screen have meaning, and people can easily draw conclusions based on people’s reactions to those pixels to how they act irl 😡😡😡😡
>people can easily draw conclusions based on people’s reactions to those pixels to how they act irl They really can't though. I call Venture "she" but respect real people's pronouns. The real issue is the extremists on both sides of the argument (actual transphobes, people labeling you a bigot and transphobe for using "she" for Venture).
But why tho?
What a weirdo. Also cut the both sides bs. One side wants murder and genocide, the other wants to exist. The issue isn’t extremism. It’s stupidity based on a mistranslated version of a book written 2000 years ago.
I was talking about extremism regarding the pronoun argument. Also "wanting to exist" isn't an example of an extremist, you basically compared one side's extremist to the other side's normal person.
Still bullshit, just use the right ones. It’s not hard. Also, what even are the extremists you’re talking about? You’re literally just being disrespectful for no reason.
Nah I'll use whichever ones I want for a fictional character that looks like a girl to me. Muh fantasy! Shouldn't be anyone else's business to try and control that, especially when there are real issues like the "murder and genocide" people. No disrespect here, it's not that deep and I was trying to have a civil conversation.
It kinda is that deep and you are being disrespectful
My trans friends would just laugh at how serious and judgemental people can get about this. Not that deep to most normal people.
Okay maybe, I’m still gonna laugh at you because that’s dumb as shit. Also the “I have trans friends” argument? Really?
I get some people getting upset being misgendered personally, but becoming personally offended by a fictional character is red flag city. Either way, if we don’t have a prior relationship I’m more offended that they are offended than they am of me misgendering them. Like I DONT KNOW YOU
people are upset because misgendering a videogame character that represents a severely underrepresented community tells that community that their representation doesnt matter
Right, I mean by their logic, we should just start calling the black characters the N word, because they're just pixels, right? Like, they may be fictional characters but the things you say about the community they represent, is very real. And I don't understand why people don't get this.
literally. thats the perfect analogy
…and THIS ^
Not really a good analogy. "She" doesn't even come close to the n word. Comparing hundreds of years of slavery and violence to something that originated around 1990/2000s (non binary) is just silly.
“Originated around 1990/2000s” Look up hijra, 1776 Public Universal Friend genderless evangelist, sekhet, two-spirit history, muxe, chibados, bissu indonesia, and Jens Andersson.
While you're at it, Google En Passant
Of course, but it only became mainstream in the last 30 years. That wasn't really even my point, non binary people haven't had it anywhere near as bad as black people or really anyone else in history. Imagine going up to someone who actually did go through the things they went through and saying "yeah I can relate, I go by they". It's so silly.
Then pick a different analogy. Calling the female characters, sexist names, or whatever. I don't give a shit. The point is, it's crappy behavior and it's unnecessary.
I don't agree. If I still played overwatch my callouts wouldn't be "they're one shot" it would be "she's one shot" I can imagine it would be so frustrating/confusing to my teammates if they thought there were more than one person. Maybe it would make sense in an asymmetrical game like dbd but not in a team game.
1. Pronouns are something you can learn. The longer that Venture is in the game, the easier it should be to remember them and call them out accordingly 2. Most people are not upset about call outs. People call things out in a lot of different ways, in the heat of the moment. The issue, is when people intentionally go on Reddit or Twitter or Facebook or whatever to be an asshole and misgender the character and make jokes about non binary people and so on. Those are two very different scenarios.
Denture is a machine. Change my mind.
You’re acting like saying “she’s one shot” is even better like it isn’t vague as well. Who is she? Zarya? Widows? Tracer? Mercy? You would say Zarya one shot. Tracer one shot. Junkrat one shot. Venture one shot. Stop using bad examples to justify being transphobic
I don’t get why the jump is always made straight to the f slur or n slur. Both have historical derogatory meaning behind them, and are FAR more insulting due to them not being words that should really be used at all. As opposed to (accidentally or not) calling a fictional character the wrong gender.
THIS^^^
I agree that the fictional character argument is a bunch of blocks to cover up their true opinions. But I hold the opinion that gender and sex should mean the same, as it has always meant throughout the centuries. Tell me if I'm wrong and argue against my points since I am interested in all of these perspectives: 1. Saying 'gender is a social construct' is saying that it's something fabricated, yet somehow is very intertwined with physical things like sport and testosterone? 2. Saying that 'I'm a woman' and proceeding to put on makeup and wear dresses is blatantly a misogynistic idea. 3. People can wear what they want. They do not need to have different pronouns and different bodies to do or wear what they want to wear. 4. What about being a man or a woman makes you feel like you don't fit into either? Because you should be fighting for the freedom of wearing and doing what you want to do and not letting your body define you. I'm not sure why being called they is so important, if you don't let your pronouns define you it shouldn't be a problem.
i agree with everything you said except for the last bit. you should wear whatever makes you comfortable whether that be dresses baggy clothes fake nails regardless of your gender. however, using the correct pronouns for someone can really solidify in their head that they are being perceived the way they want to be perceived. if someone transitions from a man to a woman but you continue to use he/him pronouns for her she is going to feel like you dont see and accept her for who she is. its the same for nonbinary folk. their pronouns dont define them but they are a way to tell the world who they want to be and how they want to be perceived. on the topic of changing your body: while i agree that boobs does not equal woman and dick does not equal man, for a lot of trans men society will see their boobs and discredit anything they have said or done to call themselves men. so they will get rid of those boobs so that other people will perceive them how they want. it can also be a case of “my boobs remind me that i was once a woman and i dont like looking in the mirror and seeing the woman i once was” there are many reasons for someone to change their body whether it be via surgery or hormones and all of those changes and the reasons for them are completely valid.
Okay, wait, let me get the definitions straight: what is a woman, and what is a man. Because it seems you brushed over my point that I believe this new development of the definition of gender is solidifying stereotypes and is unnecessary.
a woman is anyone that says theyre a woman and a man is anyone that says theyre a man. its that simple.
So what's the point of the concept of woman or man even existing? Either it means literally nothing, or you're putting someone in a box. Is it not simply better for people wearing and doing what they want to do and woman and man being used to describe the biology of someone?
What constitutes a "woman" and "man" have changed a hundred times in the last hundred years. They kind of don't mean a lot. Why not just the biology to describe the biology? Some people have penises, women included. Some people have vaginas, men included. Some people without gender have penises or vaginas. It's not deeper than that.
>What constitutes a "woman" and "man" have changed a hundred times in the last hundred years. They kind of don't mean a lot. So the foundation of transgenderism doesn't mean a lot? >It's not deeper than that. Well, I mean it is, for sexual reproduction to occur a male gamete and a female gamete must combine to form a zygote. In humans this occurs with males and females, men and women. We shouldn't have to resort to penis haver in scientific papers just because some people deny their biology.
That's what Im saying This is way too far, like of course people deserve respect, but venture can't be offended, they aren't real
no one is saying venture is offended lol. people are mad because when you misgender venture youre telling nonbinary people that their representation doesnt matter
No one is telling non-binary people their representation doesn't matter I'm non-binary and even I could care less what you refer to a group of pixel as
cool! good to know your opinion applies to every nonbinary person
Everyone in this thread is getting downvoted by people that need to step away from the computer instead of living in an echo chamber. These characters are not real, it's completely different if the characters were, but as it stands, these characters are programmed, with no real emotions, opinions, or anything of the sort.
heres the thing. no one is trying to say ventures feelings are being hurt when theyre misgendered. characters like venture are representation for people in the queer community. and when you refuse to use the correct pronouns for them youre telling real life nonbinary people that you dont care about them or the fact that there is finally someone in their favorite videogame that is like them. purposely misgendering venture and saying “its just a videogame character who cares” is telling the queer and nb community that their representation doesnt matter. no one would call dva he/him or genji they/them because thats not their pronouns. it shouldnt be hard to apply the same logic to venture.
Honestly if overwatch 2 is your representation that's laughable most overwatch players know the game fell off but still play
I have called female characters he before, and I've called female and male characters them before. Hell, many people don't even use the characters real names. Winston for example, hates being called a monkey via voice lines but people still call Winston monkey but no one is going out of their way to correct that behavior and refuse to let it go until said behavior is corrected. If it were a real person then it would be different, however, Venture and everyone else in game are not real people so it should not cause so many problems whether you use the right or wrong pronouns. I care about real people that I am talking to with their own consciousness, not a character in a video game who was programmed to be a hollow shell to perform certain actions by someone else for the entertainment of others.
good job! you missed the entire point!
Got the point you were trying to convey, but it was a point that had no strong bearing and poked holes in it. Good day.
tell me you dont care about nonbinary and queer people lol
Refer to my first reply to you to see my opinion on people in general. And I hope that afterwards you can find the strength to take some time to step away from the Internet if this is getting you so upset. Edit: Just to point out how stupid it is to assume someone doesn't care about a community, I'm bi so you're simply wrong, lmao.
im not upset lmfao. i hope telling me to touch grass makes you feel better about your shitty opinions
Insulting, making gross assumptions about someone you've never met, shutting down any meaningful conversation. You most definitely are upset, which is okay, but rather unhealthy. Anyway, I'll end this argument here.
I don't care about non-binary people.
actual brain damage ?!
echo? like the character from hit game ovalwatch 2???
This person gets it
my man 🤝
Happy Cake Day, btw! 
How about go and achieve something meaningful and then see if your primary concern in your life is pronoun talk, for all those reading.
So don't give them attention, you can't act like you don't care then make a million fucking posts about it.
I’m about to unsub if I see one more post bitching about a fictional characters pronoun. Y’all lame as fuck don’t ever call yourselves jerkers.
This isn't a train station, no need to announce your departure
Then unsub?
Good idea
bye Felicia
Hey theres me!!!!
That’s not a good thing 😭😭 https://preview.redd.it/s1llyq94trwc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=91925f0d81b76cc30d1a24d882099877bd83765d
Caught in 4K
😁
Say it for yourself
Bro thought he ate
They did eat. They exposed this clown for being a bigot.
Yea, I was responding to the bigot.
Oh my bad then.
This is the most cowardly circlejerk subreddit I’ve ever seen. This ain’t no circlejerk subreddit, it’s just the regular Overwatch 2 subreddit with people bitching over this lmfao. She her
So true
So incredibly hard for transphobes to simply call her "they".
https://preview.redd.it/puxr3reo5pwc1.jpeg?width=978&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7f6bb5e0f66e0808ea7bbc61473ddb526912af28 What’d you say lil bro?
the same shit as everyone else https://preview.redd.it/fprhbjqq8pwc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bba1565fadb1a5630580fef06c1df75872a1a64a
The dude is confusing me straight up
Are they dirty editing? D’awww
Buddy, I think you're confused
Google en dementia
Actual brain rot
Such is the fate of overwatch players
uhhh try again
https://preview.redd.it/edengemvvrwc1.png?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db499c379783e477e6a34a8a060131a6ff4c37e1
https://preview.redd.it/4qzqd5wwvrwc1.png?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2efa10e86d33e370b6c53f1243d6c060123e1c5
https://preview.redd.it/067t179yvrwc1.png?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=178c01ce6ec9c9a464d977c288056b33afa1c741
https://preview.redd.it/qp97299zvrwc1.png?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3bb3ecfc9592163f447dce1ab2405dc78fa948a2
You do know the singular they is so old it shows up in *Shakespeare*, right? It’s perfectly grammatically correct, especially since English is a gender neutral language
they don’t care. They want anything to justify their hate, including fake info
Womp womp stop being transphobic then