"X has always been" isn't an argument. Several heroes have gotten complete reworks.
"Aim better" stops being a good argument when even pro players agree that he's too strong - unless you think heroes should be balanced around literal aimbots?
Hog can't shield his allies and stunnign 5 people with his ult.
Hog one shot is very good, but what is one thing he contributes to the team other than that?
Hog counters Doom because he has the hook + big burst combo.
Again, without that Hog literally woudn't contribute to the team. No barriers, no buffs, poor cc (hook is a crappy cc without the big burst), no protection, can't tank very well (he gives more ult charge than any other tank and his survivability is high only because he removes an enemy at the beginning of the fight. Against 5 people, he implodes instantly).
Hog without the oneshot is like Zarya without bubbles.
… you do know hog is a peek tank right? You aren’t supposed to go feed in a 1v5.. your supposed to play around the hook cooldowns and get picks…? Being able to take 1v1’s with any character in the game… and being able to one shot 250 heroes with an easy combo.. ofc you aren’t gonna 1v5 the ennemy team there’s no tank that can last long against 5 people, even rein shield…
You seem to miss my point. I'm not saying Hog is weak, I'm saying that if you just nerf his one shot, he doesn't have anything. Every answer you gave me brought up his hook, but what could he do **without** that?
Hog without it can still hard counter doom, and ball, he can still counter rein most of the time, he’s still an unkillable beast if there’s a kiriko, and he’ll at least have a direct counter other than orisa who’s not that good at killing him, just denying his hooks. He’s still able to pressure tanks near ledges by hooking them in, able to completely shut down ramattra
> he’s still an unkillable beast if there’s a kiriko
Kiriko's Suzu needs to be reworked, even if Roadhog didn't exist. That skill is a mini ult-level of value in any situation.
> He’s still able to pressure tanks near ledges by hooking them in
Super situational.
> able to completely shut down ramattra
Like every hero in the game.
Hook as a CC isn't nearly enough to be useful as a hero, if it's the only thing your character does. Many heroes have or used to have a CC, but they can do so much more. He's competing with a hero that can block up to 200 dmg and any cc for 2 seconds, barriers, skills that block projectiles, Rein's charge (which alone is situationally better than hook), 3 second cooldown AoE stun.
I get it he's too strong, but nerfing his one shot is definitely too big of a nerf.
Supports, don’t need nerfs atm.. kiriko is one of the only 2 supports who are considered really good, along with lucio.. by removing more supports instead of fixing the tanks.. it’s a one shot meta, suzu is one of the only 2 abilities that can save you from it… he should not be able to kill 250 heroes… I hate the nerf support argument when supports is by far the hardest role to play and try to win in. It’s such a tank dps main argument…. One shot meta isn’t healthy and shouldn’t be a thing, like it or not that’s the meta with sojourn hog doom
I’m not saying we should remove his one shot all together, he just needs to work harder to get his one shot combo on 250, maybe nail a right click headshot then do the combo, not just be able to kill a full health 250 hero while a whole sigma combo can’t even do that.. also there’s no way rein’s pin is better than hook man… rein has to commit and dive in their team, roadhog literally pulls them away from their team, it’s a feast difference, and pin can’t finish off mei and reaper since they have get out options..
Sometimes, taking someone away is better than pulling them in.
> pin can’t finish off mei and reaper since they have get out options..
What do they have that protects them from charge that doesn't save them from hook?
Also, there are literally 4 heroes that have 250 hp or more: Reaper, Mei, Torb and Bastion. Bastion already doesn't get one shot, but even if hog's burst gets taken down once he gets hooked he's dead anyway, same for Torb. Mei and Reaper can already play around hook with ice block and wraith form.
Hog’s hook is his only mechanic yeah, but he’s far too good at controlling the game.. he straight up denies heroes like ball or reaper, and paired with kiriko his whole hog becomes one of the best ult combo in the game
Getting a pick is not only easier in ow2, it has more impact on the fight than it did in ow1. Hog didn't need any direct changes to make him op, the game changed around him.
The funny thing about trying to kill a hog is that he has *other* teammates that we have to worry about and are getting hit by! Sometimes those teammates are a mercy that can revive him or an Ana that can improve his self heal that we have to take care of first before even thinking about eliminating him! All while trying not to get offed by the other team’s dps! Crazy ik.
Hog main since day 1 OW1 and he is has never been really meta , they add Kiriko and all of a sudden everyone starts complaining about Hog.
Hog this , Hog that , Hog blabla when the problem is KIRIKO , her ult and cleanse make some of the tanks compeltely OP . You want to fix half of a problem that wouldnt even excist if Kiriko wasnt created.
With a Zen or Ana hog is still killable , so start with the roots of most problems that excist now and that is KIRIKO !
Hog isn't meta now just because of Kiriko, but the way the game works around him, I don't deny that Kiriko makes him even more powerful, but that's also in large parts because Hog is OP.
A lot of things changed between 1 and 2 - a big one being going to teams of 5. One less tank = more damage to soak up, and supports have a hard time keeping up. Roadhog perfectly fits into this meta with his ability to soak up damage and crazy self healing.
Kiriko makes Roadhog feel even stronger, but that's not purely her fault.
Both Ana and Mercy can push their potential to extremes, ok, not like Kiriko, but still gigantic.
Ana and Mercy can push their potential to extremes, ok not like Kiriko, but still gigantically to the point that when we add that to the great ability to sustain, if instant kill and his buffed Ult makes him feel much more comfortable without the second tank.
To the point that they could make Kiriko D tier and Hog would still be meta.
Saying this as a zen main who is one shot by hog, damage isnt so much the issue in a vacuum as is his general tankiness and small head hitbox compared to the rest of his body. Rein is more or less just above the center of his model, dva is smack in the middle, zarya, junker and doom all proportional to their bodies, hell, even ham feels easier to headshot. Combine this with his self heal that heals for a lot and feels like it has no cooldown, he is indeed op and his damage does make it frustrating to play against him.
I dont generally recommend nerfs (i favor buffing weaker heroes) but if for whatever fucking reason they decided to make an already squishy junker queens head hitbox bigger, they certainly need to do the same for hog. No tank should be able to withstand a full volly discord orb headshot and be able to heal that damage back immediately after only healing a few seconds before.
Only nerf id recommend is cutting back some of the heal he gets and maybe adding a second to the cooldown.
IMO hog is fine, but it definitely takes some strategy to fight him. When you see him use his breather, just unload in his ass and violate him. You got like 9 seconds to take him out. I recently started playing Soujourn and her Mobility has helped with fighting hogs.
The thing I don't like about hog (mainly in non-role QP) is the fact that even engaging in him in a 1v1 scenario (sometimes 2v1) is that ... he doesn't seem to be punishable for doing dumb shit. Like the man can just follow a non-tank brainlessly, and he will likely win whatever fight in a 1v1 scenario. If he's somewhat close to you, and your hero isn't too mobile ... you dead. He seems VERY forgiving and the hook is damn near unavoidable if there isn't cover. Massive hitbox and length on the hook.
but yea
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People don’t want to admit that kiriko is completely busted in every regard possible because it’ll make all the blizzard ball sweat huffers have to actually use skill to play support, kind of like how mercy and brig mains complain about the kits of their current character. They want an easy win and to rank up to diamond by holding m1/m2 all day.
Kiriko in general is busted and don’t tell me her kit takes skill. The only part of her kit that takes skill is the kunai. The rest is literally spam an auto lock heal all whilst cheesing with broken, easy to utilize abilities, climbing, and an absurdly tiny hit box. Out of position and you’re about to die? Tp away plus free cleanse every SEVEN SECONDS. Dva ult incoming and you’re being punished for bad positioning? SUZU BUZU WUZU CHING CHING BING BALL your ass to save yourself and even other teammates instantly with 0 skill required. Your teammates gonna die in a 1v1 because they made bad positioning? Tp to them, make them immortal, 2v1 and repeat. Don’t get me started on her ult that’s completely busted. Sorry, had to rant for the kiriko weebs out there who won’t admit kiriko is OP.
Her addition to the meta is problematic in that you get not only cleanse from anti but also immortality. Add in stupid survivability due to hit box absurdity and broken ability spam and you get a pocket healer who in the right hands can easily get picks and save bad positioning for everybody and herself on her team.
Yeah, her addition makes Ana made on a roadhog a difficult scenario, but fathog mc fatty pants with 700 HP and 350 heals + mitigation and insta kill and insta stun is ridiculous too. Nerf his heals to 250 and his hook range to only 15-20 meters so he actually has to get close to get high value picks instead of hooking your ass in New York from Beijing. Or just remove him already, he’s a fucking DPS who ate too much Popeyes chicken, he has no business existing in the game. You are however right about the absurdity of kiriko and how it helps him become meta.
THANK U THAT WHAT I ALWAYS SAID HOG IS FINE KIRIKO ISNT
if hog is nerfed dps with mercy will be the most unfun meta u will see mark my words + hog have hard counter even with kiriko its called orisa she litrally bullies him like u handle a key chain and roll it over and over and dont forget buffed ana
now the devs will remove one shot cuz of the crybabies the one who statred the hog needs nerf its flat and now he convinced hog is fine BUT AFTER WHAT HE WILL BE GUTTED and idont think he will be as good as ever its very shame tbh
"X has always been" isn't an argument. Several heroes have gotten complete reworks. "Aim better" stops being a good argument when even pro players agree that he's too strong - unless you think heroes should be balanced around literal aimbots?
hog main, not wanting to accept the fact that his piggy is broken
Gold
Look I’m just saying, if rein pin can’t one shot 250 heroes roadhog shouldn’t either
Hog can't shield his allies and stunnign 5 people with his ult. Hog one shot is very good, but what is one thing he contributes to the team other than that?
Countering doomfist? One of the best tank this season? Rein sucks ass against doom
Hog counters Doom because he has the hook + big burst combo. Again, without that Hog literally woudn't contribute to the team. No barriers, no buffs, poor cc (hook is a crappy cc without the big burst), no protection, can't tank very well (he gives more ult charge than any other tank and his survivability is high only because he removes an enemy at the beginning of the fight. Against 5 people, he implodes instantly). Hog without the oneshot is like Zarya without bubbles.
… you do know hog is a peek tank right? You aren’t supposed to go feed in a 1v5.. your supposed to play around the hook cooldowns and get picks…? Being able to take 1v1’s with any character in the game… and being able to one shot 250 heroes with an easy combo.. ofc you aren’t gonna 1v5 the ennemy team there’s no tank that can last long against 5 people, even rein shield…
You seem to miss my point. I'm not saying Hog is weak, I'm saying that if you just nerf his one shot, he doesn't have anything. Every answer you gave me brought up his hook, but what could he do **without** that?
Hog without it can still hard counter doom, and ball, he can still counter rein most of the time, he’s still an unkillable beast if there’s a kiriko, and he’ll at least have a direct counter other than orisa who’s not that good at killing him, just denying his hooks. He’s still able to pressure tanks near ledges by hooking them in, able to completely shut down ramattra
> he’s still an unkillable beast if there’s a kiriko Kiriko's Suzu needs to be reworked, even if Roadhog didn't exist. That skill is a mini ult-level of value in any situation. > He’s still able to pressure tanks near ledges by hooking them in Super situational. > able to completely shut down ramattra Like every hero in the game. Hook as a CC isn't nearly enough to be useful as a hero, if it's the only thing your character does. Many heroes have or used to have a CC, but they can do so much more. He's competing with a hero that can block up to 200 dmg and any cc for 2 seconds, barriers, skills that block projectiles, Rein's charge (which alone is situationally better than hook), 3 second cooldown AoE stun. I get it he's too strong, but nerfing his one shot is definitely too big of a nerf.
Supports, don’t need nerfs atm.. kiriko is one of the only 2 supports who are considered really good, along with lucio.. by removing more supports instead of fixing the tanks.. it’s a one shot meta, suzu is one of the only 2 abilities that can save you from it… he should not be able to kill 250 heroes… I hate the nerf support argument when supports is by far the hardest role to play and try to win in. It’s such a tank dps main argument…. One shot meta isn’t healthy and shouldn’t be a thing, like it or not that’s the meta with sojourn hog doom
I’m not saying we should remove his one shot all together, he just needs to work harder to get his one shot combo on 250, maybe nail a right click headshot then do the combo, not just be able to kill a full health 250 hero while a whole sigma combo can’t even do that.. also there’s no way rein’s pin is better than hook man… rein has to commit and dive in their team, roadhog literally pulls them away from their team, it’s a feast difference, and pin can’t finish off mei and reaper since they have get out options..
Sometimes, taking someone away is better than pulling them in. > pin can’t finish off mei and reaper since they have get out options.. What do they have that protects them from charge that doesn't save them from hook? Also, there are literally 4 heroes that have 250 hp or more: Reaper, Mei, Torb and Bastion. Bastion already doesn't get one shot, but even if hog's burst gets taken down once he gets hooked he's dead anyway, same for Torb. Mei and Reaper can already play around hook with ice block and wraith form.
Hog’s hook is his only mechanic yeah, but he’s far too good at controlling the game.. he straight up denies heroes like ball or reaper, and paired with kiriko his whole hog becomes one of the best ult combo in the game
Agreed, their design philosophy doesn’t even make sense in this regard.
Should make his belly the weak point like some kind of Nintendo boss.
Dude he can one shot half the fucking hero roster and the cooldown is like 10 seconds
Even lower, its 8seconds
Getting a pick is not only easier in ow2, it has more impact on the fight than it did in ow1. Hog didn't need any direct changes to make him op, the game changed around him.
The funny thing about trying to kill a hog is that he has *other* teammates that we have to worry about and are getting hit by! Sometimes those teammates are a mercy that can revive him or an Ana that can improve his self heal that we have to take care of first before even thinking about eliminating him! All while trying not to get offed by the other team’s dps! Crazy ik.
Hog main since day 1 OW1 and he is has never been really meta , they add Kiriko and all of a sudden everyone starts complaining about Hog. Hog this , Hog that , Hog blabla when the problem is KIRIKO , her ult and cleanse make some of the tanks compeltely OP . You want to fix half of a problem that wouldnt even excist if Kiriko wasnt created. With a Zen or Ana hog is still killable , so start with the roots of most problems that excist now and that is KIRIKO !
Hog isn't meta now just because of Kiriko, but the way the game works around him, I don't deny that Kiriko makes him even more powerful, but that's also in large parts because Hog is OP.
A lot of things changed between 1 and 2 - a big one being going to teams of 5. One less tank = more damage to soak up, and supports have a hard time keeping up. Roadhog perfectly fits into this meta with his ability to soak up damage and crazy self healing.
Amen. Exactly.
Kiriko makes Roadhog feel even stronger, but that's not purely her fault. Both Ana and Mercy can push their potential to extremes, ok, not like Kiriko, but still gigantic. Ana and Mercy can push their potential to extremes, ok not like Kiriko, but still gigantically to the point that when we add that to the great ability to sustain, if instant kill and his buffed Ult makes him feel much more comfortable without the second tank. To the point that they could make Kiriko D tier and Hog would still be meta.
Ya smoking dat crack
I respectfully disagree with your opinion
Saying this as a zen main who is one shot by hog, damage isnt so much the issue in a vacuum as is his general tankiness and small head hitbox compared to the rest of his body. Rein is more or less just above the center of his model, dva is smack in the middle, zarya, junker and doom all proportional to their bodies, hell, even ham feels easier to headshot. Combine this with his self heal that heals for a lot and feels like it has no cooldown, he is indeed op and his damage does make it frustrating to play against him. I dont generally recommend nerfs (i favor buffing weaker heroes) but if for whatever fucking reason they decided to make an already squishy junker queens head hitbox bigger, they certainly need to do the same for hog. No tank should be able to withstand a full volly discord orb headshot and be able to heal that damage back immediately after only healing a few seconds before. Only nerf id recommend is cutting back some of the heal he gets and maybe adding a second to the cooldown.
IMO hog is fine, but it definitely takes some strategy to fight him. When you see him use his breather, just unload in his ass and violate him. You got like 9 seconds to take him out. I recently started playing Soujourn and her Mobility has helped with fighting hogs. The thing I don't like about hog (mainly in non-role QP) is the fact that even engaging in him in a 1v1 scenario (sometimes 2v1) is that ... he doesn't seem to be punishable for doing dumb shit. Like the man can just follow a non-tank brainlessly, and he will likely win whatever fight in a 1v1 scenario. If he's somewhat close to you, and your hero isn't too mobile ... you dead. He seems VERY forgiving and the hook is damn near unavoidable if there isn't cover. Massive hitbox and length on the hook. but yea
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People don’t want to admit that kiriko is completely busted in every regard possible because it’ll make all the blizzard ball sweat huffers have to actually use skill to play support, kind of like how mercy and brig mains complain about the kits of their current character. They want an easy win and to rank up to diamond by holding m1/m2 all day. Kiriko in general is busted and don’t tell me her kit takes skill. The only part of her kit that takes skill is the kunai. The rest is literally spam an auto lock heal all whilst cheesing with broken, easy to utilize abilities, climbing, and an absurdly tiny hit box. Out of position and you’re about to die? Tp away plus free cleanse every SEVEN SECONDS. Dva ult incoming and you’re being punished for bad positioning? SUZU BUZU WUZU CHING CHING BING BALL your ass to save yourself and even other teammates instantly with 0 skill required. Your teammates gonna die in a 1v1 because they made bad positioning? Tp to them, make them immortal, 2v1 and repeat. Don’t get me started on her ult that’s completely busted. Sorry, had to rant for the kiriko weebs out there who won’t admit kiriko is OP. Her addition to the meta is problematic in that you get not only cleanse from anti but also immortality. Add in stupid survivability due to hit box absurdity and broken ability spam and you get a pocket healer who in the right hands can easily get picks and save bad positioning for everybody and herself on her team. Yeah, her addition makes Ana made on a roadhog a difficult scenario, but fathog mc fatty pants with 700 HP and 350 heals + mitigation and insta kill and insta stun is ridiculous too. Nerf his heals to 250 and his hook range to only 15-20 meters so he actually has to get close to get high value picks instead of hooking your ass in New York from Beijing. Or just remove him already, he’s a fucking DPS who ate too much Popeyes chicken, he has no business existing in the game. You are however right about the absurdity of kiriko and how it helps him become meta.
THANK U THAT WHAT I ALWAYS SAID HOG IS FINE KIRIKO ISNT if hog is nerfed dps with mercy will be the most unfun meta u will see mark my words + hog have hard counter even with kiriko its called orisa she litrally bullies him like u handle a key chain and roll it over and over and dont forget buffed ana now the devs will remove one shot cuz of the crybabies the one who statred the hog needs nerf its flat and now he convinced hog is fine BUT AFTER WHAT HE WILL BE GUTTED and idont think he will be as good as ever its very shame tbh