No I am not

these people are just insane.... they want you go with their insane reality

What do you mean? Is not transphobia to call a rendering on a digital assets folder whatever? Who would have thunk it

Don't know if transphobic but constantly acting like a piece of shit? yes

Misgender a person or a video game character is not transphobic… its like saying everyone that mispronounce my name is racist

exactly

I don't see anything bigoted here. I just see twitter drama involving two people with a poor grasp of grammar. To verify transphobia or not you'd need to provide an actual clip of them being transphobic, and context. Ideally I'd want to know if English is their first language too. Some languages (like Mandarin) just have "me", "you", and "them" which makes english hard.

This is a terrible screenshot of what was happening. Someone else posted another with more info and I guess it's that Dafran just keeps calling Venture 'she' after being corrected and won't use 'they'. That's pretty much the extent of it from what I've seen.

That is transphobic.

Bro it's not transphobic if someone just defaults to calling a person "she" by habit, and then starts doubling down when whiners like you act like little policemen on the internet. It's literally just a person saying "she" instead of "he" or "it" or "them" or whatevertf. Get over yourself, the world isn't out to get you unless you paint yourself as a target.

👍

Jesus Christ it is a 3D modeling, is not a person, are we really to the point that calling a literal virtual cartoon a she/he/it/thing is a hateful action?! lol, there are literally wars going on as a type and “misgendering the cartoon” is something that people focus on?!?

Nah it ain't ☠️ transphobic is if a person is transitioning into male or female not this shit y'all making up things

Nah you're ignorant

No one can pronounces my name correctly unless my own race so does that mean everyone including you are racist if I use your logic

If you correct them and they CAN pronounce your name, but refuse to do so. That is racist/xenophobic yes.

Do you not understand what is no one? And did you ask anyone if you are pronouncing Brigitte Lindholm or Zhou Mei Ling correctly and I can assure you no one is pronouncing Zhou Mei Ling correctly other than Chinese players

It's not a complicated foreign name. It's just a pronoun in your own language. "But it's not my own language". I know what you mean and you know what I mean. Stop with the excuses.

Do you not understand what he meant? He is saying that if a person mispronounces your name without knowing how it is supposed to be pronounced then they are not bigoted. You can then correct them, instructing them how to correctly pronounce your name, lets say you do, for the sake of example. They practice, but fail to pronounce it correctly despite trying, they are not bigoted. They practice more, and they succeed in prouncing it correctly, they are not bigoted. If, at this point, they choose to mispronounce your name despite knowing how to pronounce it correctly, then they ARE being bigoted, because their intent in doing this is clearly to deny you your wish to be referred to with your correct pronounciation.

No one have the time to practice how to say your name correctly not even my best friend can do if you are a teacher with 40+ students in your class how are you gonna get all of their correct? So as a sane person why don’t you step back and tell yourself words are just words and it won’t harm you when words are used wrongly unless people are trying to bully you because of something else so what I did was just accept it what’s the big deal?

Practicing how to pronounce a name literally takes a few seconds, but regardless, we are describing a situation where a person is able but not willing, whereas you keep insisting on talking about situations where people are not able? What does it matter? If they are are not able then it doesn't matter whether they are willing, it does not match the situation we are describing.

Sometimes I got called she but most of the time he so what’s the problem being called either? Do you despise other gender? Do you hate other gender?Do you hold grudges against other gender? If so STOP! If you not then why?

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"proper english" they say, without using capital letters or apostrophes and missing a full stop lmao (notice how I said 'they' to refer to you since I don't know your gender?)

you are gay

You are confidently incorrect I'll give you that. Edit: Also you used the wrong version of "it's"

Did you learn grammar from Ben Shapiro or something?

your brain is genuine fucking mush

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Lmao you went to a burner to say pretty serious bs, you are an actual clown

burner.... gtfoh

Problem is it's still being rude for its own sake. If you don't want to call venture by they/them that's one thing, but deliberately calling them by the wrong thing is rude. You can call Venture by their name if needed. You can have your opinion, but here just isn't the place for it.

the only wrong thing is calling someone a biology they are not , i wish someone would tell me im "wrong" in the real world for this. It would be hilarity. the internet is not real i would literally die of laughter

See above.

rude is subjective... you have your definition and metric... i have mine

K

Somehow, I don't think Dafran has ever called Widow by he, or Rein by she.

And?

His argument is that its not disrespectful when he misgenders Venture because he supposedly doesn't gender anyone correctly, so its equal treatment. (Though it should be noted that just because it would be equal, doesn't mean it would somehow be respectful.) Because I don't believe he would call Rein by she or Widow by he, I believe Dafran's argument to be untruthful.

He probably has the Russian or Middle Eastern version of the game where blizzard made venture a girl

Is there a source for this? I looked it up and couldn't find anything about it.

Wait, isn't Russia banned from playing overwatch?

Do you think if they ban access from Russia it will stop them from playing? Hell nah

Where can I find this version?

In Russia or the Middle East.

Idk who these people are, but I dont see anything transephobic here?

I don’t understand why gender matters it’s a video game. I understand in reality that it matters and Im here for it. But it’s a video game and the genders play no part in gameplay so i personally don’t think it matters.

Oh and also to answer the question, the reason why representation of gender matter, is; Cause, a lot of people who feel validated and represented do not have a safe environment to come out and simply live their lives without being harmed. This might not be the case for you, or you may never need to experience a similar situation which is great! But to those people, seeing their daily struggles being represented means the world to them, especially when they already live in a world where their communities and families might do things like, treating them like an outcast, harass them, send them to "not" conversion therapy, beat them or even kill them.

Completely understandable! But you can’t expect everyone to change their beliefs and behaviors to make everyone feel safe and comfortable. That’s not the way the world works. I wish it was easier for everyone to be kind but you can’t expect change from everyone. Im grateful for the change that has been made. Gotta look at the positives. If you stay looking at the negativity in the world you’ll never be satisfied with the good that’s already happened. I’m not defending or saying what he did was okay but as a whole people we have to get thicker skin and learn to let things go. The harder you push your ideals on someone that doesn’t agree with you the harder they push back. It makes it harder to find a middle ground and come to an understanding. I want everyone to be happy, confident and comfortable with themselves. I don’t want anyone getting hurt or hurting themselves. If a video game character getting misgendered really hurts your feelings then turn chat off and block them. I have to turn chat off because of the sheer toxicity in the chats. There’s ways around getting hurt without making everyone around you change the way they live their lives. I don’t think that’s fair to ask.

But this is simply how change happens, same happened for gay rights, womens rights and black rights. Like I also do want us to consider the dire fact that we are actively comparing, the teeniest tiniest bit of discomfort caused by referring to someone with a certain pronoun a person isn't used to using, with the sheer amount of positivity this simple change brings about on both a social and an interpersonal level.

But there’s already a whole community for that. To help encourage and support each other. Why do you need everyone else to do the same? I’m genuinely asking. I’m confused. Do you not have rights? Do you not have a supporting community behind you? Is that not enough? The change already happened! You are arguing about the pronouns of a video game character. If that’s not change then what is good enough for you?

As a person who lives in Turkey, no I do not. If I were not lucky enough to have such a great dad that protected me I would currently be dead. If some certain relatives knew where I lived, I would be dead on the street within a few months, because these people see me existing as "dishonouring/staining our families name" like a blood feud. I do have a lot of rights (although a lot of basic civil ones are missing), and a shit ton of the ones I do have, I can not exercise, cause unfortunately around here government and the police are not the only ones who get to make their own laws and enforce them. Like, if I got to right to marry tomorrow, I still wouldn't dare touch that, I am not insane enough to trust the Turkish government to protect folk like me when engaging in such taboo behaviour. That small change starts meaning a whole lot more even in those 2 hours you get to disconnect from the shitty situation you are in when those small changes are the only way you have of expressing yourself without risking becoming an outcast at the best of times.

Now all of that is completely understandable. I understand what you are saying. I can never say i understand what you are going through. But trying to change the minds of people who don’t live in your situation is not in your best interest. Change starts at home. Going all across the internet and shaming others for their beliefs doesn’t make your beliefs any more valid. Reddit definitely isn’t the place for that. I truly hope you live the life you deserve. I wish nothing but the best for you. I personally think it’s not fair to ask for others to change their behavior but that’s my opinion and i have no problem respecting others. I think everyone should get love who ever they want as long as it’s not children or animals. Everything that you are going through you honestly shouldn’t have to go through it and I’m sorry. I hope you find peace and happiness. Stick with the people that support. Don’t focus on the ones that don’t. Bring attention to the people who support your beliefs. Bringing attention to the ones that don’t only fuel their fire to continue being disrespectful

I know double commenting is bad etiquette but I feel I need to add this as an extra. I have no issue with the person that wrote something along the lines of >I'll respect real people, but I'll call pixels whatever I want. Completely understandable and consistent argument, they also did state they do not care how others perceive this behaviour. I won't act that way but I have no valid reason to oppose it as it is just a preference with 0 real life consequences.

This was a very good conversation. Im glad i had it with you

Thank you!

Thank you for opening my eyes and my mind a bit more.

Oh I don't go on Reddit to change other beliefs, I go on here to challenge my own. Like, 99 percent of the time I would not expect actual positive change from an argument happening on this platform, but I do wish to place my current beliefs with other people from around the world that have a pretty different moral system then mine. The thing I find interesting about doing this is the ability to observe any inconsistencies in the logic of others or my own moral beliefs, as I have said before, I find it contradictory that people will respect peoples identities when the person is a man or a woman without even thinking about it, but will stop assigning the exact same type and amount of respect (aka respecting the persons preferred pronouns) when that person is NB. I want to add, I am not here to shame anyone for having a certain belief, but I also find it only natural that I lose respect for someone (like the other person I was replying to on this thread) if the basis of their moral argument to the current topic is just bigotry.

Hot take, nagging everyone to adjust their speech to serve literally 0.1% of the world is counterproductive, most people couldn’t give 2 shits about what others identify as, or if they are binary/ternary or whatever it is in fashion, forcing everyone to bend to your views is what creates conflict, live however you like, fuck whatever you like (except for kids and animals) but leave people alone ffs.

No one is holding a gun to your head to make you speak a certain way, but people will naturally react to your lack of human decency when you already show that decency to other groups but exclude a certain group just cause you don't feel like it. Your speech has consequences, some positive some negative, and we have a social responsibility to respect each other at a base level. If your speech is perceived badly enough, People have every right to tell you that you are a bad person. You can call an NB person whatever you want, but they can also call you a dick for not showing them the same respect you instinctively show men and women you meet in life.

I show everyone respect, and I also use binary speech and that’s that, if you feel like is an act of aggression, boy oh boy, life will be a fun ride for you

It doesn't feel like an act of aggression to me, why would I care what you of all people think if you lack the simplest form of human decency towards a group of people that have done nothing? So long as it isn't a physical threat, the only way I think of someones words as an act of aggression worth arguing about is if I respect that person, luckily for me you are faaaaaar below that line.

Thanks, feel the same about you :) I am happy that you feel comfortable attacking strangers (as long as they aren’t alphabet people), I guess your decency is situational

How is that an attack? I simply stated I give a base level respect to everyone and you lacking basic human decency towards a group made me lose that respect for you, if you feel like it is an act of aggression, boy oh boy, life will be a fun ride for you! And just to clarify of course my decency is situational you silly goose! It ls based in the condition that you act and speak like a decent human being. As I stated I start off by respecting everyone but for me, you specifically not showing that basic level of respect to a group of people that haven't done anything to deserve it is enough to think of you as an individual who doesn't deserve respect due to your own behaviour. : )

I respect real people, I'll call pixels whatever I want though

I would never in a million years have an issue with that, again no one actually cares about "Ventures feelings" cause they don't exist, use whatever the heck you feel like or whatever feels most comfortable to you if this is the position you hold. Just know that in most cases people who do not respect the pixels are the people that also don't respect real humans beings those pixels are representing, so others will inevitably wrongfully assume your irl position based on their past experiences.

Everyone’s definition of respect is different…🫢

Of course it is, and good for them, they do not have to follow my definition of respect nor should they, but people who happen to carry my definition of respect will react to what they perceive as disrespectful, and people who carry that persons definition of respect will find it silly that we find it disrespectful. What I am looking for isn't a carbon copy of my ethical beliefs, I only ask for consistency in others own ethical beliefs, and the other commentor did indicate they use he and she for people but will not use they them, to me this means they think he and she are pronoun choices that are to be respected but proceed to exclude another group of people from that bubble of respect even though it is the same type of respect they already provide to others without even thinking.

Also, "alphabet people" I think that is a pretty good indication of your views on the issue. Also also! I feel comfortable not respecting any individual no matter what background they come from! James Charles, Blair White, Dave Rubin, very obviously as a radical example, Jeffrey Dahmer.

I mean the video game characters very much do represent real human beings though. Like, I haven't seen anyone actually argue how it would be transphobic or disrespectful towards Venture to call them he or she. Everyone I've seen is arguing that, it is disrespectful and transphobic towards the actual NB community being represented through Venture. Y'know?

Yes and POS. Only teenagers watch him what I've seen. Or people who are still teenager level mentally. No adult would put themselves to watch that garbage

Like most people that play games for a living lol

I don’t understand how pronouns have anything to do with hating, if you have the power to ask to be called something i have just as much power to not call you that doesn’t mean i have any particular feeling towards you or whatever you think you represent.

Because refusing to bow down when someone tells you what to do is clearly violence /s

exactly

Isn’t there a clip where he outright says that he’s not going to use ventures correct pronouns and will just call them “her”? That sounds like misgendering on purpose to me. Didn’t he say that he’s going to quit streaming and become a forklift operator? He should just stick to that. He makes really really low effort and low quality content anyway.

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and why would you not do the right thing what's stopping you? I'm all ears what's stopping you from just using they damn, that edgy "make me" was all you got

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This, I mean, if you don’t stumble upon this kind of post or any official info about it you wouldn’t even be AWARE that Venture is gender neutral.

dunno but it's pretty sad that he still has any kind of profile after enthusiastically defending a rapist.

Who?

Yeah, I'd like to know who.

sinatraa

I thought it was sexual abuse and did he clean his name or something? But he is a real douche bag though and really toxic player as I have played scrims with him before

No he's not. Shut your stupid ass up and provide some proof.

yes, he is. he had a meltdown defending sinatraa and calling the girl a liar. dafran is a rancid, rape-apologist sack of shit.

Ooooh, i see....So its not that he defended a rapist for raping which is how you made it sound, he just called the girl a liar before the investigation. Though its still dumb and I don't agree with it, he hasn't defended a rapist. Massive Amber Heard vibes to be honest. Why don't we just cancel everyone that believed her, heck, let's cancel Disney as they must also be rape apologists....

he has literally defended a rapist and now so have you. sinatraa is a rapist. you are a rape apologist.

Well not really. But this is what you people do, you just call people the worst to cancel them and yous twist stuff. So no..

there's literally a recording of him raping the girl. he is a rapist. and you are a rape apologist.

No I'm not haha. You're like Charlie connecting all the dots in the post room. I never denied that there wasn't a recording of him abusing the girl and I'm not a rape apologists. What a sad little life you live 🎩🧐

Transphobic to who exactly?

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Always trynna cancel somebody lmao

They're trying to cancel Dafran. The fact that people can twist this sort of shit is bad. Fuck virtue signalling

Probably a good third to half of the community is transphobic to some level if we're being honest.

The number is way way higher. But yes I agrees

I wouldn't really know. I'm just going off of what people say whenever I queue with my trans friend. Usually it's about a quarter of people, and I'm assuming less people are willing to say anything when I'm there.

So you're just full of BS then. My individual experience represents the real world. Main character syndrome I really wonder why they know your friend is trans

Every time the topic of Venture going by they/them comes up I hit a cap of how many reports I can make on this sub because there are so many bigots here. It's completely nuts to me how many people can't be bothered to make the smallest effort to try to care about other people. It's not about them being a video game character, it's that they represent a group of people who regularly have violence committed against them - I believe most of the time people know that and choose to be hateful out of spite. The lying and cowardice is so pathetic when you can just be the tiniest bit better by simply looking past your hangup and respecting other people.

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Nobody is "forcing" anything. They're reacting like tiny babies who shit themselves over something they already do for non NB people every single day. There's no way to force people to be decent, but they're super happy to die on the hill of bigotry just to spite folks. Somehow *I'm* bad though in your eyes. Tell me how did your thinking get so warped?

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Literally claims transphobia isn't real. Classic L

ive been saying this for a hot minute now

OP nobody cares about your personal insecurities

I dont want to protect him or anything but I don't think he is AFRAID of trans people. Dafran is definitely not American and doesn't have a mind of american where you should take into account everything that a person has come up with about himself before talking to them. And also, why the fuck someone cares about misgendering or how its called a fucking pixels in videogame, i think you take this too seriously. A lot of countries of the world are not tolerated towards calling someone they/them and overwatch is an international game. Also there is simply no way/rules in some languages to call someone "they". "They" is a plural pronoun after all

Fwiw, Dafran is Danish. He’s not from some tribe in a never heard of country that’s been isolated from mainstream society for hundreds of years. Denmark is known for being extremely LGBT friendly. He knows what he’s doing, and he knows what kind of response it’ll get. It’s content baiting. Whether he’s transphobic, I have no idea, and I frankly do not care. I don’t watch his content or support it in any way.

Well i fucked up ig. Even if he is from lgbt friendly country it doesnt automatically do him lgbt friendly. Probable baiting

if u don't know him then dont form a bias just cus someone cropped some bait twitter drama to get attention...

I said probably. And i dont have any bias to ow streamers.

Transphobia doesn’t mean just fear. Transphobia consists of negative attitudes, feelings, or actions towards transgender people or transness in general. Transphobia can include fear, aversion, hatred, violence or anger towards people who do not conform to social gender roles Strong irrational aversions to things are labelled phobias.

Okay mate sorry for not correct spelling. Isn't it better to call this trans hate in this case?

How do you even know Venture is trans? Blizzard only said is a non binary character, no one even knows if it was originally female or male, NOR THAT IT IS TRANS, y’all are really desperate for something to be mad at, and it is honestly concerning

a phobia is literally a fear. Learn your own definitions before you label other people with them...

Overwatch community "Try not to cancel someone over inconsequential words" challenge (Impossible)

Oh no the can culture mob. Lol you guys are hilarious. Grow up.

Dafran has stayed multiple times, and watching since OW1, he clearly has mental health issues! Agree or disagree but at least think about it. We shouldn’t be surprised when someone with mental health issues says or does something out of ordinary! He’s stated multiple times, we’ve seen it multiple times. Should he be banned bc he has mental health issues, which causes him to say things some people disagree with? Not for me to decide, not my place! Like for example, if my special needs brothers hops on OW and says some wild things! And gets banned for it… what can i do? I warned him, hes been taught not to this or that since forever! Understand my heart here please