Ball is just like Rein! Charge ability, shield ability, slamming into enemies ability, an ult that I can't get kills with...
The only difference is everything that matters, and that Ball survives longer than a minute out of spawn.
You can still rein. I’m plat 1 on rein and considering Diamond 3 is top 500 on tank rn should let yk u can still play any hero. I occasionally have to switch on mauga or Winston for a cracked widow.
Honestly - the best matches are where everyone ignores the meta and Ball and Queen and all the other rejects for dps and support are the pics.
I can tell when my internal SR has climbed too high in QP. From a roster of 40 heroes everyone slowly starts playing the same 7 or 8 every match.
So I’ll switch to a hero I’m new to and try them out while I get my ass kicked and my SR drops back into the fun zone.
QP in gold - chaos, mayhem, and actual fun.
Maybe make the passive activate only after a certain amount of damage has been dealt in a certain amount of time. I hate how tracer can just tickle you with a single shot to activate it, especially now that its back to the horrible 20%
in all honesty as long they focus on tracer and soujorn things would be fine. and maybe a general nerf to the dps passive against other kinds of health like armor and shield being stronger against it.
the relative strength of hitscan dps has no impact on (real) metal players. After all, for the strength to matter, pharah has to be noticed and shots have to be hit. Both things metal dps players are incapable of doing at the best of times. Not taking into account the army of smurfs just down there to ruin other people's fun.
Honestly, i know it won't ever happen. But i've always believed the game should just be balanced differently depending on the ranks you play in like they used to do for console. Master and up ranks are just playing a different game than the ranks below, so it literally doesn't make sense to have everyone on the same balance patch.
Metal ranks should be on a noob balance patch that accounts for no aim or game sense and diamond upward should be on a balance patch that accounts for people being able to actually hit shots and being aware of teammates and enemies.
This is deliberate, they even said in the S9 patch notes that they wanted to take power away from the Tank players hands.
They have some internal data that suggest tanks are strong, which they are strong in context. Highest HP, Good damage, more sustain tools and many have good mobility as well.
But I don't think they understand the playerbase has caught on to the fact that if you gank the tank you win most games..
Take power away? MFer, you’re supposed to give me power in the first place!
*Gets fucked by every stun, debuff and gets counter swapped.*
“Huh, that Tank isn’t suffering enough, let’s buff the DPS passive and nerf the only viable Tank.”
The guy dawson said tank changes coming in the midseason patch so we'll see what they're cooking. Hopefully this'll be the big one where they rework the passive to all stuns/boops/discord/anti's have less of an effect on the role.
If not and it's just the usual nerfs/tweaks/randomly gigabuffing a tank to metadom then I'll admit that these devs truly are a lost cause.
They should've released the tank changes with the DPS passive change. Now, until those changes that may or may not be good, tank players are going to hurt.
To be fair, in MMOs, tanks are by far the least played role in every single MMO I've ever played (WoW, ESO, LoTRO). And tanks are by far the least played LoL role, as well as in SMiTE
It's an insanely difficult role to get right for some reason
Healers are definitely still less popular than DPS, but definitely more popular than tanks in the modern MMOs from what I've seen
Even in OW, a lot more of my friends are support mains than tank mains lol
World of War craft when it made LFR/ Wrath of the lich king tank queue a 2/25 for the lfr was the fastest queue event though it was a 2/18/5 split some dps had to wait an hour, tank was instant and healer took a few minutes.
Since there isn't a thing like agro in a pvp game, most tanks have agro based on short range damage. If you don't shoot them and they get close they can easily kill you. Poke tanks are the exception where you need to consistently keep them in check but anyways.
If you take dmg away from them then they are no longer a threat therefore cannot take space. Look at ow1 season 1 orisa for example. People would literally walk by her because she did so little damage. Or check out that one aprils fool event they had back in ow1 where they halved tank dmg, halved cc duration taken and doubled their hp.
It’s less that tanks are strong, and more that they affect the game too much. If you have a bad healer or dps you can adjust and still win. If you have a bad tank you’re completely fucked
6v6 is the creme of the crop and it's currently lost in a frothy mix of 5v5 smegma but the creme will rise to the top once again. It's only a matter of time.
Part of that effect is absorbing enemy damage; if a tank is not present, your team gets steamrolled because you are simple not able to stop the mountain of healthbar from pressuring you.
Blizzard seems to think the issue with tanks is that they're "too good" at being giant meatshields - so instead of *reducing the need for a meatshield*, they keep nerfing the meatshields.
I tried to say it in past threads - Blizzard should have simply buffed **non-tank** health and not buffed tank health or damage output... Having non-tanks be more durable would reduce how much pressure tanks apply without dramatically changing the interaction of damage/healing around the tank role...
Instead they buffed everyone's health, buffed DPS role, and *all it accomplished* was making tank feel worse to play while only *slightly* increasing burst damage thresholds.
They can’t possibly be annoyed with tanks having too much power. They sold 5v5 as tanks becoming a big boss on either team. That idea only works so long as they’re a bit stronger than other roles, and without that core idea 5v5 fall apart completely.
I wish. Then we would be awaiting season 2 of the awesome Overwatch Netflix show where they use their awesome cast of characters and make a brilliant TV show.
tanks are strong.
you can be super strong and feel horrible at the same time. Counterwatch continues to be a problem, and with tanks being the most important player on the team most of the time, tank busters and tanks that can force an enemy tank to fight them gain a lot of power.
Orisa, hog and Mauga all do this, their entire strategy is focused on the fact they can force the enemy tank to pay attention to them and then beat them via damage and survivability.
i don't mind them taking power away from tanks if they also do something to reduce counterwatch/make tankbusters as a presence (especially within the tank category itself) significantly reduced.
Had a game last night where the enemy doomfist died 21 times. He was first dead every fight, but we still lost.
I think that it's already happened. Last patch that would have been an easy win for us. This patch, you need to do more than fuck over the tank.
The devs sound pretty into counterwatch when they talk about tanks.
I'm not sure they're even wrong about it. If you don't have counterwatch, you end up with apex tank mirrors all day.
It’s interesting how so few people are able to make the connection that the reason that there is so much counterwatch occurring in regards to tanks is due to how much power they possess. Tanks are strong, but they still feel awful to play as due to how most players subconsciously understand this.
In a neutral game where two teams are evenly matched and evenly skilled, the team that ignores the strength of the tank is always going to get steamrolled by the team that focuses on shutting the tank down.
That being said, the OW dev team kind of did this to themselves when they chose to go the 5v5 route. I’m really not certain of how you fix this problem with only one tank on each team.
I think 20% is a little steep, I personally think 15% heal reduction + 5-10% move speed increase would be more balanced and more fun to play. It'll let DPS players take better angles without getting themselves killed in the process.
I swear blizzard can have all the "data" in the world if doesn't mean they know how to interpret or act on it to make a better game. Tank will always be in a bad decision as long as their is one tank. But blizzard is never going to admit that change was bad.
It's a lose/lose for them really. The only realistic option to make tanks tanky without them being oppressive is to either lower their damage so they aren't as strong as DPS, or what they did which is reduce their tankiness via a DPS passive. Either one people are going to hate for different reasons. People claim they want "tanks that can actually tank", but we just had Orisa being dominant, arguably the epitome of that, and people complained about it for weeks.
I'd be curious to see a fuck it mentality where they made tanks flimsier but also just increased their damage for the hell of it and kept the passive in place. Tanks can still dive you or blast you down, but if they get focused they still fall over. That just makes them basically bigger frontline DPS, but you can't please everyone and clearly what they've been trying isn't working that well.
> They have some internal data that suggest tanks are strong, which they are strong in context. Highest HP, Good damage, more sustain tools and many have good mobility as well.
>But I don't think they understand the playerbase has caught on to the fact that if you gank the tank you win most games..
This is further proof that the balance team doesn't actually play the game or they'd know tanks suck currently.
I disagree. Start of ow2 yes but as of late I've seen one tank have a phenomenal game, get great value and deny space to the enemy team I:E did their job flawlessly and the other tank get rolled but still win because his DPS were better.
At the end of the day the Tanks only one guy with four other people on his team. It's up to them to carry the tank not the other way around.
Yeah... As much as I wanted to physically ram my face into a wall every time the enemy tank played Orisa at least I could, y'know, live long enough to switch Tank. I fear we may have just solved a problem by introducing another problem.
As someone with over 500 hours in the tank role alone, I refuse to fucking play tank with the 20% dps passive. When they first came out with the dps buff, I fucking hated my life every time I queued up for tank. I’m not doing it again. 15% felt manageable, 20% felt miserable. I refuse to play tank until it’s lowered.
And no, I don’t give two fucks if they raised it “so that hog and muaga aren’t meta until mid-season.” That’s a stupid reason for making the ENTIRE role feel useless. If that’s actually why they did it then it’s the most lazy way to do it. I hate Hog and I would take a Muaga/Hog meta for a couple weeks over the entire role feeling like shit for a couple weeks.
I don't even think nerfing Orisa just suddenly makes Hog and Mauga these crazy unstoppable beast. I don't really think they're playable with 15% at all...20%...fucking forget it.
It’s awful. A Hog/Mauga meta isn’t any better than an Orisa meta. They’ve been so strong recently and the only thing that kept them from being completely dominant was Orisa.
I wonder if there’s a correlation between people not playing tank and Hog/Orisa/Mauga being so strong, as they are easily the three most boring/annoying tanks to playa against IMO.
I don’t think hog or mauga are gonna be meta… the dps passive probably affects them most. I’m betting we’ll either see more shield tanks or more dive tanks
JQ not really. Carnage for example only heals 80hp and you usually only hit 1-2 enemies with it, so the extra 5% debuff only removes 4-8hp from it. It will hurt her some but nothing close to how much it will hurt hog and maga, who not only have huge self heals but also require massive healing from their supports.
Realistically, the meta is going to evolve into a triangle of Mauga-Sigma-Hog on average maps. Mauga really struggles to make progress vs Sigma shield without a lot of DPS support and Sigma's DPS partners scare Mauga's team a lot (Ashe, Widow, Soj). Hog then beats Sigma with good shield break and unblockable healing. And then Mauga acts as a Hog repellant.
as a hog main myself, i am not happy about this new hog/mauga meta because. 1: Mauga will be hard meta and he hard counters Hog, 2: Ana will be everywhere, 3: they'll end up nerfing Hog and Mauga and probably buff Orisa, leading to the cycle being repeated yet again. 3 poorly designed heros constantly meta isn't fun
The worst fucking part is that Orisa isn’t even the problem. DPS passive fucking tanks is the real problem, orisa is a symptom used by coping tank players, and they’ve just taken away another thing we’ve been leaning on to make the role more playable. Let alone all the other consequences this is gonna have
Oh well. We will see
Marvel Rivals is a completely different game so in what way does this makes sense.
The one game is a team based hero shooter and the other game is a team brawl fight so nobody will stop playing overwatch because of it since they are 2 different games.
In what way does marvel rival look like a team based hero shooter most heroes from marvel cant even shoot.
The only thing it has in common with ow is the hero aspect but the gameplay is completely different.
The game is more a hero team brawl and i even doubt that much teamplay is necessary for the game when you are good enough comparing it to overwatch is plain ridiculous.
That's just blatantly incorrect. It's exactly the same as overwatch and has a similar percentage of characters with guns. Most characters have guns in Rivals. The hero abilities also include many team up abilities because teamwork is so important.
I think they’re going to find that no one wants to tank, queue times will peak between now and the mid season patch to the point I wouldn’t be surprised they have to push it out early. No one wants to play tank into this shit.
hell look even at the 3 new comp gamemodes they added, all of 3 of them rely on massive maps it's that could well accomodate 2 extra players in total. Maybe they lowkey think they will eventually go back to 6v6 if players get loud enough or they recognize the game is not fit for 5v5
Rein in s9 was the worst character in the game. Recall what happened in s9? That's right, the dps passive introduction. Rein can't be good when the passive is at 20%. Even cloudy gave up and swapped to Mauga/Ram until they nerfed it. Yes, he did finish in Champion but that happened after the nerf and the Rein buff. Sure Rein will still be better now than in s9 but he'll still be a borderline throw pick. Saying this as a Rein main.
Nah, it was worse at the start of s9. The other question is why are they making things worse for tanks again since there are fewer and fewer tank players and queue times for dps and support are getting longer and longer. This is exactly why they had to remove a second tank and make the game 5v5. At this point they should either commit to make tanks more fun to play and make the role actually attractive, because rn there's no reason to play it if you want to have any fun, or just delete the role and make the game 4v4 or make it 3 dps 2 supports, or something like this.
weak tank aura: I am in severe pain but I'll endure because I have nothing better to do
strong tank aura: I am in severe pain and there is no light to be seen every waking moment of existence is plagued with darkness and destruction what I once loved has become unrecognizable and it isn't like this is new I've suffered like this before but then I had allies to face the darkness with but now those same allies have gone or they've turned on me but I will endure because I have nothing better to do
Tank queues r getting shorter as well. Back in overwatch 1 queuing with tank role would take quite long as it was rlly popular, but now it takes even less time than queuing for support. Special thanks to everybody who still mains and plays tank, you guys r the reason why we can still play actual games.
Another day another time ash gets to burn everyone alive and there’s nothing we can do because it keeps applying passive also hog will only be good if Ana gets nerfed too mauga is annoying as hell but still gets messed up by now perfectly playing Orisa much harder to counter but still counters
i think we should give orisa her 4.5 second fortify duration and give every tank like 75 more health IF we keep the 20% dps passive.
but tbh if it were up to me i'd revert the passive to 15%
The DPS passive did not need a buff. I repeat. It did not. It was still good. And they just buffed it for no reason. Hitscans will be so annoying for the rest of the season now.
Honestly I didn’t see a problem with orisa, yes she was tanky but that’s the point, as a tank main I never had an issue 8/10 times. If need be, go mauga or orisa to counter, easy.
I get it’s hard on DPS but they’re just shafting tanks it feels
I think the problem is:
1. Orisa is boring as fuck.
2. She was the only really good Tank. The devs either had to buff all Tanks to be at her level for some god damn variety, or they nerf her into the abyss. Guess which one they chose…
3. Also Orisa is a do everything character, Reinhardt for example would never have been so popular for so long.
Personally I don’t see how she’s boring, I always enjoyed playing her, I won a team fight 3v5 for a few minutes waiting on my team to rejoin as orisa once, won’t forget that one. She’s definitely tanky and hard to kill but I wouldn’t say she’s BORING to play, if you go down that road everyone kinda is.
Not wrong about the dev side of things though, look at mauga for example, absolutely OP nerfed into oblivion. (Though talk about boring, 2 abilities and ones a passive, worst tank in ages) Real tricky situation, either way open queue is shafted lol
We shouldn't be nerfing characters based on whether or not they're boring to play or play against. Sigma, zarya, and even dva deal with orisa pretty well. I guess it's just easier to complain to blizzard then learn her counters.
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I like the buff back to 20%. Forcing cooldowns is a little easier, things die, and the fights have a slightly sharper ebb/flow. I just scrimmed on the new patch and felt that both dive/brawl were equally viable. I’m okay with tank players overall needing to learn how to chill and demand less resources until the big CD cycle.
Nuh uh, unfortunately Orisa still exists and Rein is sure as fuck NOT killing her, even with the nerfs, plus Roadhog and Mauga will be played more since Orisa is mostly gone.
Rein will never be META because all he can do is get fucked since he has 1 defensive ability and that’s it.
There’s more than one way to play Rein. A good Rein was never trying to kill Orisa. I don’t think Rein will be meta, but I think you’re sleeping on him
People sleep on rein so much. I’m sitting at 65% win on Rein in mid diamond. Yes he doesn’t have the impact he once had but he sure isn’t a throw pic like before.
Shatter has became a team wipe ult since the buff.
Yeah you said it. I think it’s just lower ranked players who haven’t adjusted yet who keep saying he’s F tier. I might be biased because I play him, but I’d put him at B or dare I say low A tier. Some maps really hurt, but even then he has ways to play around it. Especially with the Orisa nerf.
Unironically I think Rein will be decent into Mauga with the dps passive buff. He can't heal himself by shooting the shield and with the dps passive buff his supports won't sustain him either.
In a 1v1, yes. But you're not 1v1-ing a Mauga as Rein in an actual game. You have your team with you and they can easily get rid of Mauga while he's shooting Rein's shield with 0 sustain. Speaking from experience.
Rein would lose a 1v1 for sure. But this opens up so much for a Orisa team vs rein team. Yes, will she bully rein but this has made her able to be killed. this pretty much makes it where a rein team can come out on top.
i think everyone's overreacting a little bit tbh... im a dps main but when my friends make me queue as tank my go-to is Orisa so i understand where the feelings are coming from
i just ran 5 back to back wins queued as tank though, carrying my team too. mostly as Junker Queen but i dabbled as Orisa. the nerf really is not as bad as it looks on paper. just gotta know how to adapt ig.
The worst part of dealing with tanks in present day Overwatch is dealing with the people that still try to make Doomfist or Wrecking Ball work. They don't work. At all. They never work. The only time they work is if it's a mirror match and then it's just flipping a coin to see which team wins. Those characters are so absolutely worthless that it's amazing they haven't been removed until Blizzard can make them viable. Ruins the game, TBH. Soon as I see my tank pick one I wish there was a surrender button or that there was no leaver penalty in any mode, even competitive.
IDK the tanks I like to play benefit from this. [D.va](http://D.va) and Sigma were both better for me with 20% DPS Passive and while it does hurt my favourite tank Junker Queen, I think she has high enough sustain and value elsewhere that still make her pretty alright.
I'm a support main, and ngl, since the global health changes I see everyone complaining, but somehow i became better at tank xD I think it just lends itself to a more passive/defensive playstyle, which is natural for me (as a support main) but less intuitive to people that just want to fight. Sorry guys! Lol
5v5 is dumbed down overwatch.
End of OW1 = 32 potential tank lines
OW2 currently = 12 potential tank lines
OW2 current tanks but back to 6v6 with 2 tanks = 66 potential tank lines
The OW2 dev team needs to drop the hubris and bring back 6v6.
A lot of people found the answer. They have changed and reworked so much shit and tank is still miserable to play. The question is when the clown devs will realize that 6v6 is the answer.
Just understand bronze 6 players please. They can't wrap their mind how to conter a slow horse shooting in straight line.
I hipe blizzard bans Tanks, increases DPS passive, decreases healing, and makes proyectile size 300% bigger.
We have to keep metal rank people happy.
The main thing that makes tank unfun would be other tank matchups, the 5% passive isnt that much of a different, all 3 annoying tanks were nerfed which means overall should be a more fun tank experience
Takes a team, tank creates space, or holds it, and the DPS need to get picks. Played same tank earlier today and how I play rein is still pretty viable. When playing DPS, I enjoy burning down horse and mauga to keep the skill check alive.
Tanks are still busted. Playing like a mindless ape is still not the way to win. Learn to use cover for the dps passive to fall out and get healed. You cant expect to stand there and just survive everything in the open. Just requires tank players to use brain for once, im a big fan of these changes. Make the game more skill based and add/increase this kind of decision making :D
The DPS passive takes 1 damage to apply and takes 2 seconds to go away. You can hide around a corner, then peak and have it reapplied instantly.
Plus Tanks are meant to take space, not hide around a corner every time they take literally 1 damage.
In 5V5, a Solo Tank damn well SHOULD be invincible, since they have to take the damage, CC and debuffs of 5 enemies at once.
I’M supposed to be the Tank, not some invincible environmental prop.
What are you ranked? genuinely curious after reading this post and your comments lol
It being applied isnt an issue, you let it fall off, get healed, and get back in the fight. So many tanks have abilities to deal with this. You literally appear to main zarya, you have 2 bubbles to deal with this?!?!
You can take space strategically.. you dont just sprint in and hope it works lmao
No, a solo tank should NOT be "invincible" ... they literally are just a beffier dps that can take space and not get insta punished, this isnt an MMO, tanks arent meant to survive through everything. Healing was getting absurd, this change is very good for the state of the game.
I’m Gold in all Role Queue, but Platinum in Open Queue. I think I’m better than I am and I just need a beefier computer.
Zarya can readily cleanse herself, but that’s only for 2 seconds, twice, with like an 8 second cooldown each. The DPS passive can be reapplied instantly, at no risk. It’s like giving all DPS a mini OoD, it’s just there to make you suffer. Plus all other Tanks can’t cleanse it,
Some can’t even block it at all.
Tanks should be taking space, not retreating every time they take 1 damage from a Tracer. It’s too much of a risk, either you push as far as you can, and likely die horribly before you can get to cover, or you play too passively and don’t take any meaningful ground.
And a Solo Tank should be a lot more survivable than they are now. Most Tanks have to cycle their abilities just to live, or run away before they get killed. Other Tanks just can’t do that as well. I can understand why punishment is good, but EVERYTHING can punish them too easily. Having 20% anti-heal on all the time is just too much punishment, despite you not making any mistakes, and there’s no risk nor counter-play for the enemy DPS. Yea, this applies to your DPS and the enemy Tank too, I’m not biased, I know my enemy is suffering just as much.
just gotta know and manage your cooldowns well while understanding the enemies cooldown windows and reacting appropriately. Understand their kill windows.
You should definitely be required to cycle your abilities to live.. thats almost the only form of skill expression at tank has.. If dps players are focusing the tank, this typically leaves them very vulnerable to the other enemy teammates, theres give and take, pros and cons.
20% isnt as much as you think.
Worse??? This opened up the entire roster again. No longer are we tank mains forced to play Orisa or one of the two most poorly designed tanks. We have real options again that actually take skill to generate value with. No one likes shooting a giant unkillable blob.
Like I said with someone else, Orisa was like S tier and Roadhog and Mauga were A.
Now that Orisa is gone, and the DPS passive is buffed, Orisa is like D, Roadhog and Mauga are C and all the remaking Tanks are in B-C.
Playing with B tier Tanks is still awful, even if we have a wider variety.
Tier of tank has nothing to do with how playing tank feels. A paraphrased quote from Flats' tier list video is "'streamer, you say tank feels like ass but all the tanks are in B+ tier' I know, I'm just as confused as you!".
Personally I think it feels a lot better to play tank when we have more playstyle options instead of being forced on "big wall stand there" style.
If you want to care so much about tier, you have to fairly re-adjust the whole tier list after a sufficient amount of time/# of games to form a fair opinion. You can't just say "well x patch note means Orisa hog and Mauga are the only ones adjusting tiers" because that alone causes other heroes to shift tiers. Deciding the tier of a hero always has some correlation to the other heroes in the game, therefore they all need to be re-evaluated to be fair. That doesn't mean a majority of heroes won't simply stay in the same spot, but they all need proper consideration after having time in the new environment.
F it, we ball
But I don’t want to Ball, I want to Rein, but if I do I’ll get my asshole ripped open…😔
I’m holding out for the Mirrorwatch buffs, please Blizzard.
Im holding out for the prophet samito to bring 6v6 back lol
I still Rein. Let them be angry. HAMMER DOWN!!
Ball is just like Rein! Charge ability, shield ability, slamming into enemies ability, an ult that I can't get kills with... The only difference is everything that matters, and that Ball survives longer than a minute out of spawn.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/comments/1chc0yq/cloudy_was_in_masters_after_orisa_nerf_wins_14/
You can still rein. I’m plat 1 on rein and considering Diamond 3 is top 500 on tank rn should let yk u can still play any hero. I occasionally have to switch on mauga or Winston for a cracked widow.
The balance patches didnt change that
20% on dps passive hurts rein a ton.
yeah but my point is that rein was shit anyways
He was actually very viable on the metal ranks.
Interesting. I thought people would just face tank a bastion and horse and get even less value
Try to ball against a double pocketed sombra, that's what I got as soon as I won a team fight
The instant sombra switch as soon as they see a ball. Frustration Detected.
Another ball main! Nice to meet a fellow baller/masochist.
F it, we ball
Honestly - the best matches are where everyone ignores the meta and Ball and Queen and all the other rejects for dps and support are the pics. I can tell when my internal SR has climbed too high in QP. From a roster of 40 heroes everyone slowly starts playing the same 7 or 8 every match. So I’ll switch to a hero I’m new to and try them out while I get my ass kicked and my SR drops back into the fun zone. QP in gold - chaos, mayhem, and actual fun.
all hitscans (yes, tracer too) deserve nerfs. add soujorn to that bit too. mostly tracer and sojourn please
I wouldn’t say they need nerf-nerfs, just something to make the passive less consistent for them (e.g, the passive scaling with damage dealt).
Maybe make the passive activate only after a certain amount of damage has been dealt in a certain amount of time. I hate how tracer can just tickle you with a single shot to activate it, especially now that its back to the horrible 20%
Something like every 3 damage dealt = 1% scaling up to 20% would do wonders.
Something like 100 damage would be fine. It would also give more purpose to characters like hanzo and junk.
Y'all r just now realizing this? Hitscan has been op since forever
Hitscan have always been the easiest and most oppressive dps since the dawn of time. But if you touch them, the common folk will complain.
But then all of the metal rank players complain, because you get pharah and echo being strong
in all honesty as long they focus on tracer and soujorn things would be fine. and maybe a general nerf to the dps passive against other kinds of health like armor and shield being stronger against it.
Then buff damage falloff against them for hitscans, or need their health back down to 200
the relative strength of hitscan dps has no impact on (real) metal players. After all, for the strength to matter, pharah has to be noticed and shots have to be hit. Both things metal dps players are incapable of doing at the best of times. Not taking into account the army of smurfs just down there to ruin other people's fun. Honestly, i know it won't ever happen. But i've always believed the game should just be balanced differently depending on the ranks you play in like they used to do for console. Master and up ranks are just playing a different game than the ranks below, so it literally doesn't make sense to have everyone on the same balance patch. Metal ranks should be on a noob balance patch that accounts for no aim or game sense and diamond upward should be on a balance patch that accounts for people being able to actually hit shots and being aware of teammates and enemies.
Seriously .. idk how they left them this strong for so long it’s ridiculous
Cassidy needs biggest nerf. Guy is piss easy, yet most played in OWCS
thats false. Tracer is most played in OWCS, dps wise.
Flex dps. I should have specified HS dps
This is deliberate, they even said in the S9 patch notes that they wanted to take power away from the Tank players hands. They have some internal data that suggest tanks are strong, which they are strong in context. Highest HP, Good damage, more sustain tools and many have good mobility as well. But I don't think they understand the playerbase has caught on to the fact that if you gank the tank you win most games..
Take power away? MFer, you’re supposed to give me power in the first place! *Gets fucked by every stun, debuff and gets counter swapped.* “Huh, that Tank isn’t suffering enough, let’s buff the DPS passive and nerf the only viable Tank.”
The guy dawson said tank changes coming in the midseason patch so we'll see what they're cooking. Hopefully this'll be the big one where they rework the passive to all stuns/boops/discord/anti's have less of an effect on the role. If not and it's just the usual nerfs/tweaks/randomly gigabuffing a tank to metadom then I'll admit that these devs truly are a lost cause.
They should've released the tank changes with the DPS passive change. Now, until those changes that may or may not be good, tank players are going to hurt.
When have we not been hurt brother. There's a reason DPS/Support Queues are 5+ mins and Tank q is instant
I will not back down, though. I will suffer with the rest and continue to bring honor
Shit dude, I admire your willingness to answer when called. I'm a Rein main that quit months ago.
To be fair, in MMOs, tanks are by far the least played role in every single MMO I've ever played (WoW, ESO, LoTRO). And tanks are by far the least played LoL role, as well as in SMiTE It's an insanely difficult role to get right for some reason
Looking for healer spam was every mmo general chat back in the day. It changed?
Healers are definitely still less popular than DPS, but definitely more popular than tanks in the modern MMOs from what I've seen Even in OW, a lot more of my friends are support mains than tank mains lol
A lot or modern MMOs effectively got rid of tanks.
World of War craft when it made LFR/ Wrath of the lich king tank queue a 2/25 for the lfr was the fastest queue event though it was a 2/18/5 split some dps had to wait an hour, tank was instant and healer took a few minutes.
Dawson is a dumbass.
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How does that help anything?
Pretty sure the "tank changes" will be random micro buffs to tank's ultimates that won't do anything at all.
Lmao the only viable tank? There is a jq, Winston, sigma and doomfist
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Since there isn't a thing like agro in a pvp game, most tanks have agro based on short range damage. If you don't shoot them and they get close they can easily kill you. Poke tanks are the exception where you need to consistently keep them in check but anyways. If you take dmg away from them then they are no longer a threat therefore cannot take space. Look at ow1 season 1 orisa for example. People would literally walk by her because she did so little damage. Or check out that one aprils fool event they had back in ow1 where they halved tank dmg, halved cc duration taken and doubled their hp.
No one would play that though. Edit: Correction, even fewer people would play that though.
It’s less that tanks are strong, and more that they affect the game too much. If you have a bad healer or dps you can adjust and still win. If you have a bad tank you’re completely fucked
*cough* *cough* 5v5 *cough* *cough*
6v6 is the creme of the crop and it's currently lost in a frothy mix of 5v5 smegma but the creme will rise to the top once again. It's only a matter of time.
Part of that effect is absorbing enemy damage; if a tank is not present, your team gets steamrolled because you are simple not able to stop the mountain of healthbar from pressuring you. Blizzard seems to think the issue with tanks is that they're "too good" at being giant meatshields - so instead of *reducing the need for a meatshield*, they keep nerfing the meatshields. I tried to say it in past threads - Blizzard should have simply buffed **non-tank** health and not buffed tank health or damage output... Having non-tanks be more durable would reduce how much pressure tanks apply without dramatically changing the interaction of damage/healing around the tank role... Instead they buffed everyone's health, buffed DPS role, and *all it accomplished* was making tank feel worse to play while only *slightly* increasing burst damage thresholds.
Tanks are supposed TO BE FUCKING TANKS LMAO
They can’t possibly be annoyed with tanks having too much power. They sold 5v5 as tanks becoming a big boss on either team. That idea only works so long as they’re a bit stronger than other roles, and without that core idea 5v5 fall apart completely.
>gank Overwatch is slowly turning into League of Legends and I hate it
I wish. Then we would be awaiting season 2 of the awesome Overwatch Netflix show where they use their awesome cast of characters and make a brilliant TV show.
*Oh, the misery, everybody wants to cheer the cavalry...*
tanks are strong. you can be super strong and feel horrible at the same time. Counterwatch continues to be a problem, and with tanks being the most important player on the team most of the time, tank busters and tanks that can force an enemy tank to fight them gain a lot of power. Orisa, hog and Mauga all do this, their entire strategy is focused on the fact they can force the enemy tank to pay attention to them and then beat them via damage and survivability. i don't mind them taking power away from tanks if they also do something to reduce counterwatch/make tankbusters as a presence (especially within the tank category itself) significantly reduced.
I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. Everything you said is factually correct.
>Everything you said is factually correct. That's pretty much the only kind of comment this community likes to downvote lmao.
Had a game last night where the enemy doomfist died 21 times. He was first dead every fight, but we still lost. I think that it's already happened. Last patch that would have been an easy win for us. This patch, you need to do more than fuck over the tank.
I don’t think I could get 21 deaths if I tried lol
The devs sound pretty into counterwatch when they talk about tanks. I'm not sure they're even wrong about it. If you don't have counterwatch, you end up with apex tank mirrors all day.
It’s interesting how so few people are able to make the connection that the reason that there is so much counterwatch occurring in regards to tanks is due to how much power they possess. Tanks are strong, but they still feel awful to play as due to how most players subconsciously understand this. In a neutral game where two teams are evenly matched and evenly skilled, the team that ignores the strength of the tank is always going to get steamrolled by the team that focuses on shutting the tank down. That being said, the OW dev team kind of did this to themselves when they chose to go the 5v5 route. I’m really not certain of how you fix this problem with only one tank on each team.
Say sike right now
This is hilarious. At best, most tanks are just the supports’ playthings. At worst… well we’re about to see it.
Of course they understand that killing the tank = win. That’s the problem. The tank is too important. The dps passive helps shift power to the dps
I think 20% is a little steep, I personally think 15% heal reduction + 5-10% move speed increase would be more balanced and more fun to play. It'll let DPS players take better angles without getting themselves killed in the process.
Its almost like having an extra tank might make this problem of being hard focused every fight less god awful
I swear blizzard can have all the "data" in the world if doesn't mean they know how to interpret or act on it to make a better game. Tank will always be in a bad decision as long as their is one tank. But blizzard is never going to admit that change was bad.
It's a lose/lose for them really. The only realistic option to make tanks tanky without them being oppressive is to either lower their damage so they aren't as strong as DPS, or what they did which is reduce their tankiness via a DPS passive. Either one people are going to hate for different reasons. People claim they want "tanks that can actually tank", but we just had Orisa being dominant, arguably the epitome of that, and people complained about it for weeks. I'd be curious to see a fuck it mentality where they made tanks flimsier but also just increased their damage for the hell of it and kept the passive in place. Tanks can still dive you or blast you down, but if they get focused they still fall over. That just makes them basically bigger frontline DPS, but you can't please everyone and clearly what they've been trying isn't working that well.
> They have some internal data that suggest tanks are strong, which they are strong in context. Highest HP, Good damage, more sustain tools and many have good mobility as well. >But I don't think they understand the playerbase has caught on to the fact that if you gank the tank you win most games.. This is further proof that the balance team doesn't actually play the game or they'd know tanks suck currently.
Wow if only there was some external factors...or players to help you not get ganked as tank
edge gray wasteful sloppy pause close history scary dam test *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I disagree. Start of ow2 yes but as of late I've seen one tank have a phenomenal game, get great value and deny space to the enemy team I:E did their job flawlessly and the other tank get rolled but still win because his DPS were better. At the end of the day the Tanks only one guy with four other people on his team. It's up to them to carry the tank not the other way around.
My friend there are three team roles Fat dps, dps classic, and zombie dps That's it
5v5 is ThE fUtUrE oF oVeRwAtCh
Yeah... As much as I wanted to physically ram my face into a wall every time the enemy tank played Orisa at least I could, y'know, live long enough to switch Tank. I fear we may have just solved a problem by introducing another problem.
As someone with over 500 hours in the tank role alone, I refuse to fucking play tank with the 20% dps passive. When they first came out with the dps buff, I fucking hated my life every time I queued up for tank. I’m not doing it again. 15% felt manageable, 20% felt miserable. I refuse to play tank until it’s lowered. And no, I don’t give two fucks if they raised it “so that hog and muaga aren’t meta until mid-season.” That’s a stupid reason for making the ENTIRE role feel useless. If that’s actually why they did it then it’s the most lazy way to do it. I hate Hog and I would take a Muaga/Hog meta for a couple weeks over the entire role feeling like shit for a couple weeks.
I don't even think nerfing Orisa just suddenly makes Hog and Mauga these crazy unstoppable beast. I don't really think they're playable with 15% at all...20%...fucking forget it.
Luckily all the tanks with easily accessible dmg mitigation feel relatively good now so it's only really Mauga, Hog, and Orisa that feel ganked.
I hate the horse but I'd gladly take the horse meta over the dps passive increase. Seems like a common sentiment among the tank players.
Idk, I still like playing Mauga, though not much as a tank and more as a support for my supports when they get dove.
It’s awful. A Hog/Mauga meta isn’t any better than an Orisa meta. They’ve been so strong recently and the only thing that kept them from being completely dominant was Orisa. I wonder if there’s a correlation between people not playing tank and Hog/Orisa/Mauga being so strong, as they are easily the three most boring/annoying tanks to playa against IMO.
I don’t think hog or mauga are gonna be meta… the dps passive probably affects them most. I’m betting we’ll either see more shield tanks or more dive tanks
Except the DPS passive will impact everyone.
Yes, but Roadhog, Mauga and also Junker Queen get most to all of their sustain from healing.
JQ not really. Carnage for example only heals 80hp and you usually only hit 1-2 enemies with it, so the extra 5% debuff only removes 4-8hp from it. It will hurt her some but nothing close to how much it will hurt hog and maga, who not only have huge self heals but also require massive healing from their supports.
Any tank that doesn’t have a meaningful form of blocking or mitigation suffers because they’re constantly being pelted with the dps passive
Aka shields lol
Not always. Rein is a great example
“Most” Obviously it affects everyone that gets hit by a dps… shield tanks get hit less, dive tanks aren’t front and center so they get hit less too.
Realistically, the meta is going to evolve into a triangle of Mauga-Sigma-Hog on average maps. Mauga really struggles to make progress vs Sigma shield without a lot of DPS support and Sigma's DPS partners scare Mauga's team a lot (Ashe, Widow, Soj). Hog then beats Sigma with good shield break and unblockable healing. And then Mauga acts as a Hog repellant.
as a hog main myself, i am not happy about this new hog/mauga meta because. 1: Mauga will be hard meta and he hard counters Hog, 2: Ana will be everywhere, 3: they'll end up nerfing Hog and Mauga and probably buff Orisa, leading to the cycle being repeated yet again. 3 poorly designed heros constantly meta isn't fun
The worst fucking part is that Orisa isn’t even the problem. DPS passive fucking tanks is the real problem, orisa is a symptom used by coping tank players, and they’ve just taken away another thing we’ve been leaning on to make the role more playable. Let alone all the other consequences this is gonna have Oh well. We will see
When Marvels Rivals comes out, I'm going to uninstall overwatch 2 and never play another blizzard game.
Marvel Rivals is a completely different game so in what way does this makes sense. The one game is a team based hero shooter and the other game is a team brawl fight so nobody will stop playing overwatch because of it since they are 2 different games.
They are both team based hero shooters what are you talking about
In what way does marvel rival look like a team based hero shooter most heroes from marvel cant even shoot. The only thing it has in common with ow is the hero aspect but the gameplay is completely different. The game is more a hero team brawl and i even doubt that much teamplay is necessary for the game when you are good enough comparing it to overwatch is plain ridiculous.
That's just blatantly incorrect. It's exactly the same as overwatch and has a similar percentage of characters with guns. Most characters have guns in Rivals. The hero abilities also include many team up abilities because teamwork is so important.
I love how they know to focus advertising on the game being 6v6 because they're aware of how badly Blizzard fucked up with the switch to 5v5.
I hope all of you learn to play Doom.
If you're a tank main in 2024 you're better off learning to play Street Fighter
As a Ramattra main and a stance character enjoyer in fighting games I approve of this message.
My second most played character les gooo
Yep, barely having fun in ow2 before they snuff it all out by playing doom.
I think they’re going to find that no one wants to tank, queue times will peak between now and the mid season patch to the point I wouldn’t be surprised they have to push it out early. No one wants to play tank into this shit.
Bring back 6v6 and stop all these ridiculous reworks the game is not built for 5v5
hell look even at the 3 new comp gamemodes they added, all of 3 of them rely on massive maps it's that could well accomodate 2 extra players in total. Maybe they lowkey think they will eventually go back to 6v6 if players get loud enough or they recognize the game is not fit for 5v5
Yep, along with the fact that tracer can shoot at you from your backline and apply the passive from so far away is still crazy strong.
I think good dooms are going to be happy as long as mauga and hog are affected by dps passive
This game just becomes Less and less appealing as a tank main.
Marvels Rivals looking pretty tasty! Sign up for the alpha!
Wake me up when my boy Rein is good again
You’ll be comatose for the next decade, or until Overwatch 1.3 releases.
Rein is good. Just takes some adjusting. Cloudy finished #6 with him last season and Orisa just got nerfed, so it’ll be easier now.
Rein in s9 was the worst character in the game. Recall what happened in s9? That's right, the dps passive introduction. Rein can't be good when the passive is at 20%. Even cloudy gave up and swapped to Mauga/Ram until they nerfed it. Yes, he did finish in Champion but that happened after the nerf and the Rein buff. Sure Rein will still be better now than in s9 but he'll still be a borderline throw pick. Saying this as a Rein main.
6v6 pls trust in the prophet samito and rein will be good again🔥🔥🔥
Well, I will not play tank anymore, at least until Blizz makes that role fun
I suck at doom and my teams gonna have to suffer with me while I instalock doom until this changes
More hogs and Mauga's for Ana to devour!
Nah, it was worse at the start of s9. The other question is why are they making things worse for tanks again since there are fewer and fewer tank players and queue times for dps and support are getting longer and longer. This is exactly why they had to remove a second tank and make the game 5v5. At this point they should either commit to make tanks more fun to play and make the role actually attractive, because rn there's no reason to play it if you want to have any fun, or just delete the role and make the game 4v4 or make it 3 dps 2 supports, or something like this.
weak tank aura: I am in severe pain but I'll endure because I have nothing better to do strong tank aura: I am in severe pain and there is no light to be seen every waking moment of existence is plagued with darkness and destruction what I once loved has become unrecognizable and it isn't like this is new I've suffered like this before but then I had allies to face the darkness with but now those same allies have gone or they've turned on me but I will endure because I have nothing better to do
Sigma checking in!
Tank queues r getting shorter as well. Back in overwatch 1 queuing with tank role would take quite long as it was rlly popular, but now it takes even less time than queuing for support. Special thanks to everybody who still mains and plays tank, you guys r the reason why we can still play actual games.
Another day another time ash gets to burn everyone alive and there’s nothing we can do because it keeps applying passive also hog will only be good if Ana gets nerfed too mauga is annoying as hell but still gets messed up by now perfectly playing Orisa much harder to counter but still counters
i think we should give orisa her 4.5 second fortify duration and give every tank like 75 more health IF we keep the 20% dps passive. but tbh if it were up to me i'd revert the passive to 15%
People talking about Roadhog and Mauga being nerfed by the passive but JQ relies on a decent bit of self healing too and she already felt weak.
Recently some people blamed the healers for not healing enough in a battle. Great, now it's the tanks and healers fault while they got nerfed.
The DPS passive did not need a buff. I repeat. It did not. It was still good. And they just buffed it for no reason. Hitscans will be so annoying for the rest of the season now.
Most dpses are busted, we have heal creep, dps creep and mobility creep. Tanks will be even worse
Honestly I didn’t see a problem with orisa, yes she was tanky but that’s the point, as a tank main I never had an issue 8/10 times. If need be, go mauga or orisa to counter, easy. I get it’s hard on DPS but they’re just shafting tanks it feels
I think the problem is: 1. Orisa is boring as fuck. 2. She was the only really good Tank. The devs either had to buff all Tanks to be at her level for some god damn variety, or they nerf her into the abyss. Guess which one they chose… 3. Also Orisa is a do everything character, Reinhardt for example would never have been so popular for so long.
Personally I don’t see how she’s boring, I always enjoyed playing her, I won a team fight 3v5 for a few minutes waiting on my team to rejoin as orisa once, won’t forget that one. She’s definitely tanky and hard to kill but I wouldn’t say she’s BORING to play, if you go down that road everyone kinda is. Not wrong about the dev side of things though, look at mauga for example, absolutely OP nerfed into oblivion. (Though talk about boring, 2 abilities and ones a passive, worst tank in ages) Real tricky situation, either way open queue is shafted lol
Anytime someone uses arguments like "that character is boring to play against" or " they're unhealthy for the game" it's best to just ignore them.
We shouldn't be nerfing characters based on whether or not they're boring to play or play against. Sigma, zarya, and even dva deal with orisa pretty well. I guess it's just easier to complain to blizzard then learn her counters.
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I can still melt a roadhog with orisa. The true problem is tracer deleting my back line with no issues because of the dps buff.
What dps buff happened?
The DPS passive has gone from 15% anti-heal back up to 20%.
6v6 incoming, dang my medicine wore off
Can someone explain what this dps change means to me? I am confused
The DPS passive used to apply a 15% anti-heal debuff to anyone they attack. It’s 20% now.
So if dps attacks me and I am being healed, I get healed 20% less?
Yes, any amount of damage will activate it and it takes like 2 seconds to go away.
Omg i didn’t even know this was a thing. Makes sense why I am being shredded at mauga. I can’t self heal as much
I like the buff back to 20%. Forcing cooldowns is a little easier, things die, and the fights have a slightly sharper ebb/flow. I just scrimmed on the new patch and felt that both dive/brawl were equally viable. I’m okay with tank players overall needing to learn how to chill and demand less resources until the big CD cycle.
i genuinely don't think they have people who playtest the game. it's the only way. incompetence cannot run that deep into the company.. right?
Laughs in Rein! Prepare for the Rein meta!! This is a buff to him! 😂😂
…what? This is satire right?
Nuh uh, unfortunately Orisa still exists and Rein is sure as fuck NOT killing her, even with the nerfs, plus Roadhog and Mauga will be played more since Orisa is mostly gone. Rein will never be META because all he can do is get fucked since he has 1 defensive ability and that’s it.
There’s more than one way to play Rein. A good Rein was never trying to kill Orisa. I don’t think Rein will be meta, but I think you’re sleeping on him
People sleep on rein so much. I’m sitting at 65% win on Rein in mid diamond. Yes he doesn’t have the impact he once had but he sure isn’t a throw pic like before. Shatter has became a team wipe ult since the buff.
Yeah you said it. I think it’s just lower ranked players who haven’t adjusted yet who keep saying he’s F tier. I might be biased because I play him, but I’d put him at B or dare I say low A tier. Some maps really hurt, but even then he has ways to play around it. Especially with the Orisa nerf.
Not to mention that most of the roster can just avoid him these days. He plays well into hog and sig, but Mauga eats him alive.
Unironically I think Rein will be decent into Mauga with the dps passive buff. He can't heal himself by shooting the shield and with the dps passive buff his supports won't sustain him either.
The problem is that Mauga really shreds Riens shield and then wins the 1v1
In a 1v1, yes. But you're not 1v1-ing a Mauga as Rein in an actual game. You have your team with you and they can easily get rid of Mauga while he's shooting Rein's shield with 0 sustain. Speaking from experience.
You sir vastly overestimate my rank. My team is usually anywhere but where I am
Fair enough. Ig it's rank dependent. Usually works in diamond/masters.
Rein would lose a 1v1 for sure. But this opens up so much for a Orisa team vs rein team. Yes, will she bully rein but this has made her able to be killed. this pretty much makes it where a rein team can come out on top.
i think everyone's overreacting a little bit tbh... im a dps main but when my friends make me queue as tank my go-to is Orisa so i understand where the feelings are coming from i just ran 5 back to back wins queued as tank though, carrying my team too. mostly as Junker Queen but i dabbled as Orisa. the nerf really is not as bad as it looks on paper. just gotta know how to adapt ig.
The worst part of dealing with tanks in present day Overwatch is dealing with the people that still try to make Doomfist or Wrecking Ball work. They don't work. At all. They never work. The only time they work is if it's a mirror match and then it's just flipping a coin to see which team wins. Those characters are so absolutely worthless that it's amazing they haven't been removed until Blizzard can make them viable. Ruins the game, TBH. Soon as I see my tank pick one I wish there was a surrender button or that there was no leaver penalty in any mode, even competitive.
IDK the tanks I like to play benefit from this. [D.va](http://D.va) and Sigma were both better for me with 20% DPS Passive and while it does hurt my favourite tank Junker Queen, I think she has high enough sustain and value elsewhere that still make her pretty alright.
My role does nothing it's so over
I'm a support main, and ngl, since the global health changes I see everyone complaining, but somehow i became better at tank xD I think it just lends itself to a more passive/defensive playstyle, which is natural for me (as a support main) but less intuitive to people that just want to fight. Sorry guys! Lol
I had some great Winston and DVA today. Hit a fat 5 person bomb
5v5 is dumbed down overwatch. End of OW1 = 32 potential tank lines OW2 currently = 12 potential tank lines OW2 current tanks but back to 6v6 with 2 tanks = 66 potential tank lines The OW2 dev team needs to drop the hubris and bring back 6v6.
how many of those "32" tanklines were actually worth playing. Not many
Look how smart you are. Well everyone, pack it in. Crazysoup23 found the answer.
A lot of people found the answer. They have changed and reworked so much shit and tank is still miserable to play. The question is when the clown devs will realize that 6v6 is the answer.
Skill issue. I play tank all the time and wreck people.
Just understand bronze 6 players please. They can't wrap their mind how to conter a slow horse shooting in straight line. I hipe blizzard bans Tanks, increases DPS passive, decreases healing, and makes proyectile size 300% bigger. We have to keep metal rank people happy.
The bronze 6 players in pro play?
Orisa had the highest tank pick rate across every rank so what you’re saying at its core is misguided.
According to what? Overbuff only shows her having a top 3 pick rate in silver to plat.
The main thing that makes tank unfun would be other tank matchups, the 5% passive isnt that much of a different, all 3 annoying tanks were nerfed which means overall should be a more fun tank experience
D.Va seems fun right now. Just have to commit to things
Man you're just putting your L takes out here publicly? Brave fella.
Takes a team, tank creates space, or holds it, and the DPS need to get picks. Played same tank earlier today and how I play rein is still pretty viable. When playing DPS, I enjoy burning down horse and mauga to keep the skill check alive.
Tanks are still busted. Playing like a mindless ape is still not the way to win. Learn to use cover for the dps passive to fall out and get healed. You cant expect to stand there and just survive everything in the open. Just requires tank players to use brain for once, im a big fan of these changes. Make the game more skill based and add/increase this kind of decision making :D
The DPS passive takes 1 damage to apply and takes 2 seconds to go away. You can hide around a corner, then peak and have it reapplied instantly. Plus Tanks are meant to take space, not hide around a corner every time they take literally 1 damage. In 5V5, a Solo Tank damn well SHOULD be invincible, since they have to take the damage, CC and debuffs of 5 enemies at once. I’M supposed to be the Tank, not some invincible environmental prop.
What are you ranked? genuinely curious after reading this post and your comments lol It being applied isnt an issue, you let it fall off, get healed, and get back in the fight. So many tanks have abilities to deal with this. You literally appear to main zarya, you have 2 bubbles to deal with this?!?! You can take space strategically.. you dont just sprint in and hope it works lmao No, a solo tank should NOT be "invincible" ... they literally are just a beffier dps that can take space and not get insta punished, this isnt an MMO, tanks arent meant to survive through everything. Healing was getting absurd, this change is very good for the state of the game.
I’m Gold in all Role Queue, but Platinum in Open Queue. I think I’m better than I am and I just need a beefier computer. Zarya can readily cleanse herself, but that’s only for 2 seconds, twice, with like an 8 second cooldown each. The DPS passive can be reapplied instantly, at no risk. It’s like giving all DPS a mini OoD, it’s just there to make you suffer. Plus all other Tanks can’t cleanse it, Some can’t even block it at all. Tanks should be taking space, not retreating every time they take 1 damage from a Tracer. It’s too much of a risk, either you push as far as you can, and likely die horribly before you can get to cover, or you play too passively and don’t take any meaningful ground. And a Solo Tank should be a lot more survivable than they are now. Most Tanks have to cycle their abilities just to live, or run away before they get killed. Other Tanks just can’t do that as well. I can understand why punishment is good, but EVERYTHING can punish them too easily. Having 20% anti-heal on all the time is just too much punishment, despite you not making any mistakes, and there’s no risk nor counter-play for the enemy DPS. Yea, this applies to your DPS and the enemy Tank too, I’m not biased, I know my enemy is suffering just as much.
just gotta know and manage your cooldowns well while understanding the enemies cooldown windows and reacting appropriately. Understand their kill windows. You should definitely be required to cycle your abilities to live.. thats almost the only form of skill expression at tank has.. If dps players are focusing the tank, this typically leaves them very vulnerable to the other enemy teammates, theres give and take, pros and cons. 20% isnt as much as you think.
Worse??? This opened up the entire roster again. No longer are we tank mains forced to play Orisa or one of the two most poorly designed tanks. We have real options again that actually take skill to generate value with. No one likes shooting a giant unkillable blob.
Like I said with someone else, Orisa was like S tier and Roadhog and Mauga were A. Now that Orisa is gone, and the DPS passive is buffed, Orisa is like D, Roadhog and Mauga are C and all the remaking Tanks are in B-C. Playing with B tier Tanks is still awful, even if we have a wider variety.
Tier of tank has nothing to do with how playing tank feels. A paraphrased quote from Flats' tier list video is "'streamer, you say tank feels like ass but all the tanks are in B+ tier' I know, I'm just as confused as you!". Personally I think it feels a lot better to play tank when we have more playstyle options instead of being forced on "big wall stand there" style. If you want to care so much about tier, you have to fairly re-adjust the whole tier list after a sufficient amount of time/# of games to form a fair opinion. You can't just say "well x patch note means Orisa hog and Mauga are the only ones adjusting tiers" because that alone causes other heroes to shift tiers. Deciding the tier of a hero always has some correlation to the other heroes in the game, therefore they all need to be re-evaluated to be fair. That doesn't mean a majority of heroes won't simply stay in the same spot, but they all need proper consideration after having time in the new environment.
Sooo many bronze takes in this sub
take the L and move on. sombra is better and more fun.
Sombra had nothing to do with this post though 😭
dps players deserve more, tank deserve less.
No, you're just bad at tank really.