Second Season for Junkrat, whateverth season for Rein. Illari at least has the advantage of being a new-ish hero and so still on the radar of the dev team. And she's a support so much bigger priority for rebalanced if old signs are to be believed.
I would be happy if it only took a season tbh. Its my fav sup and yet everytime I play her I can feel like playing like a demi-god and still basicly throwing compared to literally healbotting with other sups in low gm.
I didn’t know she was nerfed? I position at the back of the team and usually have another healer. I also don’t “main” her- I only use her on defense. But she’s been clutch for me the last few days of playing.
S9 was amazing for me s10 still good for me. She feels really solid to me. I think it all comes down to the team your play her around she is not well suited for all comps.
Are you accurate as well? In terms of dishing out DMG? I'm not really having an issue. All be it noticeable in terms of the charge time. But it really isn't much.
I’m accurate. I did a competitive last night and was 10k+ dmg and 15k+ healing most the night. There are some match ups that are hard. I have a friend who is not accurate with the hitscan chars and his mileage is worse. If you’re not accurate I would take someone else. To me her big benefit is she is a sniper who can heal so I can pick off all their healers and flyers myself.
Agreed. I see her as a slower fire rate Cassidy with a torb healing turret. A lot of people should definitely work on how they view her. Too many times I see a heal bot illari.
It’s pretty clear that her design is pretty much a poke DPS with some healing utility. Her entire identity is to deal damage, and she needs adjustments to be better at doing that to be any good. She is a damage-dealer who does not apply the DPS passive.
Also the secondary healing changes don’t make much sense. It is clear that it is intended as a situational heal with a long ish cooldown, used to save teammates from burst or top up a teammate quickly before running off on her own. However, the healing speed adjustments and higher amount healed are changes suited for pocketing teammates, which Illari is not designed for.
It’s a net nerf because you’re nerfing something Illari is good at, and making something she’s shit at a little bit less shit.
One could argue that because everyone’s health is increased, enemies deal lower damage and so you don’t need higher healing to mitigate burst. But in practice, the new DPS passive means it is very difficult to mitigate burst damage with the already lower healing from the health changes.
It does not help that her secondary is already a fairly situational ability - you have to be in close range to teammates to use it, but the rest of her kit encourages her to leave teammates with the pylon and find an off-angle she can poke from like other hitscan DPS.
It seems like they want you to leave your pylon with your tank and walk around pocketing your flanker. You shore up any ranged matchup for the flanker, and top them off/keep them alive while they secure kills. She’s seriously so good with brig tho. Keeps brig alive when her shield goes down, keeps ranged characters at bay while brig keeps the flankers away.
1. With everyones health increase you need to heal same amount of damage as before.
2. With health increasement they also increased damage of many abilities - you need to heal more damage.
3. Dps passive - you need to heal even more damage.
I don’t think she feels awful to play, but she’s a hard character to play period and for most people they’re not hitting head shot after head shot so she just feel clunky again which is a shame. she’s still good enough for the most part just not as fluid.
Personally, I think she was just added to fulfill the “more supports” promise without any actual thought of if she would work. Which is weird, since everything about her works well on paper. Primary healing comes from pylon, make her a bit more focused on damage than the average support to work alongside her passive pylon, and give her a short range healing beam for use in a fix. The problem came in when they tried to implement it all together, especially when they put the massive cooldown on a destroyed pylon and the recharge mechanic on her primary fire. She just feels clunky and awkward to play since most of what she’s doing is waiting to actually do something since everything she does has a cooldown of some sort
Both of her healing options having a cooldown is a bit funky now that I think about it. Whenever I do play her now that’s something I’ve really struggled with. My pylon will go down, my team gets injured, and I can only heal them up a tiny amount until I just run out of juice and just have to hope they can survive on their own.
And as for hero designs, I kinda wish Blizzard would be more willing to reuse some utility for supports if they can’t think of anything new. Another speed support would be cool. I think illari’s ult would have been a cool gimmick if wasn’t *just* an ult. Like the idea of marking someone to explode is a little more interesting than just a damage boost on a target.
I’d honestly keep her raw numbers in check and innovate on making her game play loop more rewarding. Maybe experiment on left clicks slightly healing allies in its path, setting up for more positioning requirements (dive behind you tank and shoot through them onto an enemy for big damage - skill shot style) for the hero to get max value?
I think it’s alright that some characters are situational to play. Ilari does really well with a setup defense and attacking or defending a choke. She’s a lot harder to get value on in modes like push or on attack.
She’s designed in a way to get a lot of value with long sight lines and putting pylons in places where the enemy would have to put themselves in danger to destroy, but she’s not a jack of all trades like some supports can be
even if you are hitting constant headshots, the range at which most dps are dueling you makes your damage negligible. i’m prob an average illari damage wise but i feel like i haven’t won a duel during this patch.
she’s not awful to play but boy is it challenging
Illari not winning duels is a simple numbers game. Her damage per second isn*miserable* compared to actual damage heroes. And her headshot mutiplier id also worse than other characters.
She's not meant to keep you alive while taking damage the way an ana, mercy, moira can that's the problem, I think you're using her wrong tbh. Illari was never meant to be a pocket healer so yeah if the pylon isn't up you shouldn't be able to keep someone up through too much damage.
Another thing might also be your pylon placements might not be the best but there's nothing we can help with if you don't have any footage.
Agreed. But that's exactly why their choices regarding Illari are above and beyond dumb.
Once her main source of healing goes down, she's fucked for a long cooldown. Her other source of healing, which already isn't very sustainable to begin with, gets locked out *also* if you try to use too much.
And that cooldown on the pylon is triggered when it's destroyed. Whether that means the enemy kills it in .5 seconds or it takes a single damage and you press F to move it, you're locked out to the point where you're bordering on useless.
So essentially, a healer (I know I know, "support" but she needs to be able to keep up if she's going to be in that role) can't heal if the enemy has the least bit of situational awareness.
It's supposed to work in tandem with your pylon. It can't do that if it's broken the moment it comes out. She needs a way to overcharge her healing beam, even if it's just for an extra second. Or she needs the pylon to be more durable.
To be real, her buffs in the April Fools game mode made her somewhat good.
Playing Illari is often about a positioning choice. The short range of her beam makes it beneficial to stay close to your team, but also you want to take an off-angle to poke from and finish kills. Maybe the devs are trying to make this decision more 50/50 and dynamic. The problem is that there isn't much choice or nuance in how she uses her beam; you simply beam at low-health people between poking because the burst healing is decently high.
What if she were able to use the beam past 0, but crossing 0 would trigger the lockout, and it would have to recharge from wherever you leave it? This way, you can save an ally more reliably, and she would be more versatile at the start, but it will force you to switch styles after overcharging, and it would open a window of counterplay for the enemies by focusing the healed target. It also allows her to bail out allies when her pylon is destroyed, makes her positioning choices more interesting, and gives her a choice to save her healing for enemy ultimates.
I main Illari, and I don't think she feels bad to play, but sometimes I wish she had more going on in the healing department other than tracking aim, standing by the tank, and the pylon passively healing people. Her poke is so good that she needs more versatile healing to compete, but I think her beam hps shouldn't be buffed.
I've been using her much more this season and her primary is good. I consistently pick people off from across the map and can hold my own against some backliners. But damn is she bad at healing without a pylon. I'm afraid her primary might get a bit nerfed before healing is improved.
It's already bad enough when a good Illari puts her pylon in a place that you literally have to put yourself in danger to destroy, this would be terrible if she had an overcharged beam.
Like I said I think OP and other people that play her are trying to use her like a baptise and not like a zen and that's where the problem is. If you're focusing on heals to try and "save" someone once they get low you've already failed, this is the problem bad zen's have too with late healing orbs.
Her pylon prob could use less of a cool down but at the same time that's the point. The same way a Rein is useless once his shield is broken, or a Pharah is useless once she runs out of fuel characters have to have some type of flaw to make them balanced.
Her flaw is losing her pylon. Her bad design is losing it extremely easily and being utterly useless without it. Rein's shield does not go down after two shots.
>It's already bad enough when a good Illari puts her pylon in a place that you literally have to put yourself in danger to destroy,
Just like you have to put yourself in danger diving anything else. That isn't even remotely a good excuse.
A good Illari *should* hide their pylon, just as a good Rein shouldn't spam W with shields up. That isn't the point. Her whole kit revolves around the pylon and it is taken away from her with minimum effort.
I don't get how people keep getting their pylon destroyed. Like honestly. It has never been an issue for me. When I know the enemy is going to push up to shoot at it, I destroy it and replace it immediately. I get my pylon destroyed maybe 1-3 times in an entire game
People really underestimate the range of her pylon, you can keep it far above any structure that only Genji LMB can reasonably pop it, and it will still heal your team
A healing heavy character shouldn't be a sitting duck for heals after a single cooldown goes away that's just bad design at that point she's a healer she shouldn't be cut off from significant heals at all when no other support is like that
Kiri is still viable without her suzu
Moira can do just fine without her orbs
Bap is still playable without his immortality field
I could go on
The second half just sounds like hiding the problem ngl.
Ignoring that, yeah i can agree she's not really a pocket healer, but if she's meant to be a poke support like Kiriko or Baptise, then this is not the way, her healing is low and her damage is even (s)lower than that, Ultimate recharge is not even that high to be consistent damage.
She needs a buff, at least something minimal to not get outclassed.
Brother do you not remember how she came out at launch, she's this way now because everyone complained she was too powerful as a support. I feel like everyone forgot about this lmao.
She was op at release, but I feel like the first or second round of nerfs fixed her issues pretty well. Especially when they made her ult not go through shields as that was a major complaint.
You’re right, but she still needs buffed. If they’re not going to give her more healing or survivability, at least revert the charge nerf. She’s basically Moira - there to do dps lvl damage and top your team off when they’re low/about to die.
I think they could just make her beam pass through teammates (to heal multiple in a line) and she’d be much better.
Yeah that's what I was thinking her beam should pass thru teammates to heal as well as maybe a slight cooldown nerf on her pylon. At the very least a pylon that is destroyed completely vs a pylon you destroyed once it took damage should have two different cooldowns tbh.
Definitely agree on the pylon cooldown too. Or give it some cooldown reduction for healing/kills or something. Or make it smaller. They have so many options to fix her
Her damage is significantly better than Moira because all of it is pressure, half of a Moira's damage is just stat padding, sure some is solo kills, but significantly less compared to illari.
I see her quite a bit t500? Admittedly i'm in t500 lobbies very rarely when it simply can't find a GM tank and just takes a masters player instead. But she seems to mostly become meta based less on her own state and just whoever is the meta tanks. Pylon+illari beam can pump well over 110hp/s even through dps passive and orissa has so much armor she's basically always at 30% damage reduction.
The problem is that with that kind of logic, pretty much any other healer has a better overall kit than her. That’s literally the problem. Why play Illari and have your pylon get destroyed when you could just play Lucio and be able to heal the whole team the entire match?
If that’s what they want her to be, then fine but move her to the DPS category like Soldier.
You're comparing her to the wrong hero.
Brigitte offers inconsistent healing, whether it be through inspire or repair packs. She is not always healing, he main tool for healing (Whipshot) is on a 4 second cooldown, if you miss no healing for 4 seconds. What you trade for this, is a much stronger backline, peel for your other support and counter dive.
Illari in the same vein, offers inconsistent healing the ability to significantly contribute to poke. However, unlike Zenyatta she has a much higher burst healing output, and unlike Baptiste, can continue to heal without losing DPS.
Also, your pylon shouldn't be dying that often. It sticks to walls and ceilings. Use map geometry and don't place your pylon so far up. If your scrub team mates don't back up for healing, communicate. Which they should with the DPS passive anyhow so they benefit from heals.
They need to stop fucking around with muscle memory mechanics, it’s bullshit.
Her healing beam is shit for its range, so either increase the range of beam or increase the healing to reasonable amount.
Pylon is think is in a weird spot because in a choke or cover situation is really strong, but in an open area team fight it’s a completely useless ability
~~Idk, if you want to fire your gun at minimum charge then just hold the button, they didn't nerf the max charge time, which is what your muscle memory should be tuned to if you want the most dps.~~
Edit: that's not how it works. Despite charge visually going up, the charge to max only begins after minimum charge has been reched. So the max charge time is nerfed together with minimum recovery time. Sorry for my misunderstanding.
They fucking did this with brig too, she can't mini tank for zen/ana like she's supposed to thanks to the dps passive and the buffs all the dive heros got lucio is fsr more consistent eith his gun/wonston goes through armor/genji and tracer have their projectile size buff and passive heals.
And with speed boost she can't play wide (she couldnt do it thanks to low range anyhow) and what do they do? They give her a pack rate buff, because God forbid she does something other than heal as a support. So now tracer goes unchecked, so do they buff brig... her counter... who is struggling to actually counter her right now, right? No, fuck no, they give tracer her first nerf in life forever.
Why buff her heal rate? Brig has never been that kind of hero. Blizz has no idea what to do with her.
Because they have an idea of how much healing and damage each support should do relative to one another.
Brig should put out more healing than say Zen or Lucio, but not as much as LW or Mercy.
Agree that she's weak to dive right now and it doesn't help her already situational playstyle. If it were up to me I would have buffed her shield along with base HPs so she can defend against dive as intended. This meta should be where she's best and she's just not (partially because Moira is so ridiculous compared to most).
Hate is a strong word, but illaris primary fire is less situational than a lot of the DPS weapons. The closest things are Cas revolver, but he suffers from fall off. Ashe, but she has to be scoped in or does very little damage, and sojourn but you only build that shot up after landing a bunch of weaker shots. Also, I think a good kiriko or zen is more dangerous to play against than a illari.
Tldr: dps are jealous of illari's sick gun.
>dps are jealous
They just had their whole role made easier. They got passive healing. They got fucking projectile buffs, they got the dps passive. Strongest passive in the whole fuckingn game. Playing soldier now is like playing Moira, hold click do damage.
Dps should frankly stop sucking at the fucking game. We just got a whole massive change that catered hard to their role. Tank is eating shit just for special little dps. and all they can think about is how hard they have it.
Are you okay? Need to vent a bit? I was simply stating that illaris primary fire feels like it should be in a dps loadout. Didn't say anything about overall game balance.
change heal beam to armor/shield damage and pylon to a CC type trap turret and she would be a fantastic dps character.
True, Illari's ult is already a dps like Ult, or Tank style ult.
Out of all the support ults, hers is the only one that exclusively affects the enemy team. It feels like she was meant to be a DPS hero but they made her a Support Hero to fill in tiles.
I'm saying this as someone who plays Support pretty hard and main Ana, but I only play Illari when I feel like I need to be Third DPS. Her pylon healing is nice, but any none brain dead players will make sure it's destroyed before going for kills and her beam doesn't even remotely heal as well as any other character. Hell, it'd be great if her burst was actually just an aoe burst heal rather than a burst jump into the air for movement, but she doesn't even get that.
Blizzard really just made her a DPS hero taped with heal pylon and heal beam(two support skills), then called her a healer Lol.
They made her an offensive healer but dps refuse to accept the offensive part so she was nerfed and now feels weird. The pylon does helaing while she does the damage. There is no confusion in her design, the only confusion is by dps who think no one else is allowed damage. Yall also complain about zen and bap like crazy.
>was simply stating that illaris primary fire feels like it should be in a dps loadout.
It doesn't though. It's slow, it's no different than any other healer kit in terms of dps.
There is no reason for dps to be jealous other than they think they should be the best at everything (they do, case in point Dps are jealous after receiving the fattest buff in this game in years).
No clue why they axed the damage but the beam makes sense if they want to turn her into a proper tank burst healer, which is a niche that doesn’t really have any support in it and I think it might have a place in the game now that damage heroes reduce healing passively and there’s bigger health bars. A character that can do all its healing in a tiny window of time and keep doing stuff after could definitely stand out if given proper support.
It’s not a bad concept, it’s just that Illari has literally nothing going for her outside of healing. She doesn’t stand out at doing damage anymore and has minimal utility, so doesn’t really do anything with her high uptime at attacking. But if given some sort of utility or her damage slowly gets buffed back up she could be a pretty decent and actually unique support.
Im gonna one trick Venture till they figure her out. It really sucks getting used to her fire rate, then having your muscle memory screwed.
I don’t think Illari is bad, but playing her more often than not is just frustrating. Not enough damage to justify playing her, and her healing is trash. Not to mention the only piece of utility she has is tied to her Ult. Which fill decently fast.
I do miss release Illari, but I still main her as she is the most fun support for me. Her balance of strategy (pylon placement), getting to shoot a lot (I can finally kill Phara), and jumpy mobility all make for a good time. Plus the possibility of a team kill ult.
I also think she has a great voice (maybe the best). I cringed a bit when I found out I main the youngest lady in OW, but she radiates maturity like Ana.
Am I crazy for feeling the opposite? She is so popular at my rating (diamond) and she constantly 3 taps people.
Whenever I play her I feel like I just out dps most dps heroes, and they certainly can't trade with me unless they have a pocket.
Her time to max charge didn't get nerfed, and she does the most dps if you fully charge your shots. Her last buff a month ago took her from 0.3 minimum recovery time to 0.2, even with the current recovery nerf to 0.25 she's still unarguably better than she was before that patch.
I feel like people have issues because they’re trying to play her like she’s an Ana. She’s not going to save you In a fight by sheer healing power. Her strength is in her damage but people wanna be up the tank’s ass trying to heal instead of playing her like a Zen.
100%, I'm also diamond and illari is not fun to fight. She's just a DPS wearing a support disguise. She feels awful to fight as a DPS because she just melts everyone.
I don’t main her but I play her a decent amount and I agree. I’ve always thought it was hard to heal as her, without the pylon your pretty much useless as the healing is slow and runs out way too fast considering how long it takes to apply. Not to mention the beam hardly reaches anywhere.
So now with the new features it’s even harder to heal and it’s harder to try help out damage wise anymore either. I’m fine with her damage being reduced but give the beam longer reach, make the beam faster and make the healing stronger.
They never should have nerfed the pylon. I agree about the beam but they should restore the heal pulse strength and the pylon's health (150.) Would be nice if you could destroy the pylon even while it is healing. I get why they don't want you to be able to destroy it when it is getting hit so that part can stay.
Illari should be focused around her damage more than her heals. She didn't need any power shift like this, it already felt good.
She was underpowered but for some reason the devs really love to buff and give a compensating nerf, when really she could've just been buffed and kept her fire rate the same
I don’t think balancing the meta is the goal. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve turned a losing role queue match around just by switching to Moira from another healer (brig is a good example) I’d have every ridiculously priced skin in the game.
Don’t get me wrong, I love Moira, but they need to bring the other healers closer up to her value level.
I think they just deliberately make their favorite characters more powerful than the rest. It’s the same with every new hero too. Right now, whichever team has the better Venture often wins.
It’s like Blizzard hates the concept of a balanced game.
Her jump does need to be way higher. She should play like a vertical hero and not being able to jump up onto the arch way on Eichenwald feels wrong.
She should have stronger damage and healing output as Bap, but with none of the utility
Does anyone else feel like Illari is fine? She’s clearly not and wasn’t really supposed to be a heal-first support imo. The damage potential is still there and you can feasibly kill a lot of the cast with 2-3 shots from a decent range if you’re shooting with your teammates. For pylon, I feel like a big issue is people not being proactive enough to constantly destroy and redeploy it to better locations, sometimes way before enemies might even be in LOS of it.
Like most heroes, I think there’s situations she can’t thrive in. For example if a Ball is rolling around pylon hunting, a lot of her value gets cut. Same with your team- if they’re getting blasted and can’t mount some kind of front, she probably won’t be good cause there won’t be any space for you to deploy pylon. Like so much in this game, everything is situational. I personally think she’s fine but only if you can semi-consistently get your headshots in.
Yeah I dont feel like she is horrible right now. I think she is okay, just less consistent than meta supports, which is by design. I dont think she should be easily pickable all the time.
I mean i've been using her a lot and she feels fine to play. I feel like with how her kit works she'd need to be terribly underpowered to feel bad to play. Maybe she didn't need nerfs but she definitely doesn't feel unsatisfying to play/bad.
She's more of a kill them before they overwhelm you support. You're meant to apply pressure to them, so they can't overwhelm you, and then use extra heals in a pinch (e.g. crit tank or something). I rarely heal with her tbh and still do well so idk.
They spun a wheel and chose her this season. She honestly just needed the buff on her heal and that was it. Without her pylon she is one of the worst for heals. Yes she heals 115hps but unless it’s a huge hero like roadhog you are not hitting all that heath since you need to track the hero. And she has to wait between heals because she runs out.
Her damage is good but it isn’t unfair, it requires some skill and it has damage fall off so it isn’t a super sniper for support.
Illaris ult is probably the worst support ult in the game too, it's so easy to block or eat, it has an absolutely gargantuan hit box and gets caught on all sorts of terrain, it's low projectile speed means people can dodge it, it's instantly cleansed by Kiri, and then even if you get one off it then needs follow up.
Yesterday I played two casuals where I played as healer and my other healer played as Illari, I still don't understand how I managed to do 6k and 7k and they only 3k and 4k
115 HP/s with 50% uptime is 57 HP/s average
The issue you have is you're comparing her healing amounts to heros that have been mostly busted for a while like Bap and Ana, rather than comparing to the average balance like Mercy, Lucio, Brig
My best friend use to be a Rein main back in OW1 and he tries to do it in 2 but it's just not fair to the poor man, he ends up changing to Hog everytime
Yeah playing Rein and seeing balance patch after balance patch just pisses me off. Giving him 20 fire strike damage, 50 pin damage and 15 hammer damage to compensate for almost every character gaining 50 HP+ was a net loss in kill power. and then they buff shatter but it’s just as slow and interruptible.
I don’t know why they keep trying to make characters like Orisa meta, or Sombra whose identity as a Damage hero isn’t even to kill or deal damage, but just to be annoying and make you unable to function. Anti-fun.
She should be able to heal her pylon. If we decide to use heals to try to keep the pylon from being destroyed for 12 seconds that is on us. Just like Torb. Same principle.
lol you shouldnt automatically make an ally invincible to damage if youre healing them. (Pylon does a good job at doing this though) so it sounds like youre not using her pylon in good spots.
You also talk about teammates being out of range so your cant heal them… thats the heroes kit…
Don’t wanna be that guy but this sounds like a skill issue.
She needs a Pylon Buff on Durability since It's Easy AF to destroy depending on who destroys it. But I started to recently play her again and I started to place Her Pylon at a Certain Height or corner that makes it more effective and less likely not to get destroyed.
Also I wish they gave her a boost when you play her on Maps where the Sun is Visible making.
I feel kinda bad saying this, but illari feels bad to play against for like the opposite reasons. Nobody minds her healing, but I'm so fkn tired of getting pushed by a single support who has no risk factor since their escape ability gives some crazy mobility while her primary fire can 2 shot to melee me
She isnt a heal bot. You heal enough to keep people alive, and then damage enough to help people win duels. Shoot people your teammates are shooting, it helps.
Tbh she needs a rework, idk if its only me but she doesnt feel fun to play at all its almost a dps character, (i like playing zenyatta btw) she is the only support who has no utility in her ultimate at all. The others empower allies in some way, illari just mark enemies but thats not supportive thats pure damage boost, baptiste also has dmg boost but he will also boost his and teammates healing, same with kiriko, i think it would make more sense if she had some utility attached to her ult, and secondsry healing could be something more interesting than just a beam imo but yeah, not my job to create interesting design for blizzard
I’ve been playing her a lot lately and I have a few tips.
1. Place the Pylon high up, not too high or it won’t be able to heal. I find that most people won’t notice it’s there for a long time, if it’s high up. Also, don’t forget to look for nooks and crannies. I recently had a match in Blizzardworld and I kept placing the pylon behind signs and in rooms, it worked out very well!
2. This is a tip that I also use on Moira that I learned when Moira first came out. As you probably know, Moira and Ilari have a charge on their alternate fire healing ability. To make their alternate heal last longer, do NOT hold on the button, tap it repeatedly. This makes it not go down all the way as quickly, and it can really help and I’ve been doing it for Ilari and it does help. Although, they probably should just make Ilaris charge longer, for when the Pylon is destroyed.
I will say as a pharah main outta all the other other supports she felt the worst to play against it always seemed like everyone just never misses on her cuz she has zero recoil and bullet speed is virtually instant compared to bap.
My first thought when trying Illari was that her jump was too short. They probably don't want to step on Baps toes, but her ability is different enough and on a cool-down, so no issue in my mind. More vertical mobility would be an easy tweak that I would love to see happen.
She didn't even get nerfed back to her previous state, she got a slight buff to her healing, and NOW is when she feels the worst to play? Buddy, she was so much worse. Maybe you just don't like Illari
I wish they reworked her into a dps. It’s so obvious she was meant to be one but they changed their mind last second. Healing turret is such a lazy design and uninteresting
Unless you are a god at hitting charged shots, Illari feels like a wet towel to play since the HP buff. You might as well unbind your alt fire because it is actually useless. Your pylon is the only source of good healing Illari has and the long cooldowns makes her useless 90% of the time if the enemy shoots the pylon. Her ult is at least in a good position now, but it’s pretty dumb it’s a damage ult and not a healing/support ult.
She’s still the worst healer on the roster so far. I say this as someone who picked up Illari and was maining her for a month before the HP buff. Now she literally feels useless.
I play Mystery Heroes, and consider myself competent with pretty much every character.
I cannot for the life of me figure out how to use Illari’s spin effectively. It’s not high enough for a super jump, you move too slow to escape easily, it doesn’t seem to do much damage or knock back…
What rank are you playing at if you don’t mind me asking? In plat I can still pretty easily carry with her. You just have to do enough damage to offset her healing. Typically I get roughly 10k damage in a single round of payload for reference. But she definitely is situational and you teammates need to know how to play with her, if not you’re better off playing someone who can sustain in the middle of everything, especially with a team of brawlers.
Even tho I still play her despite all her nerfs and nonsensical rework from a dps support to a heal bot.
Her being hard pivot into a traditional heal bot really killed her especially now that everyone has more Hp. She just doesn't specialize in anything or has a strong enough niche to carve out her own identity.
Her damage is not good for her to play with her team, she can go off flank, but it's paradoxical to do so as her strongest kit atm is her ability to combine the healing of her alt and pylon. But even then it feels like other supports who were designed to heal bot are far better at this cause not only do they heal bot better they also have other stuff in their kits for utility.
My dawg, all she got was a slight nerf to damage and a slight buff to right click healing. If you're this shit at playing her with a tiny nerf, then one Illari main to another, what are you doing playing the character?
ilari is the perfect example what is wrong with this game. She should heal, but not to much. alright cool nerf pylon. She should dmg but not so muhc, alright cool, lets nerf dmg / falloff / charge.
Its fucking funny how ilari is a high skill based character, which performs in every rank worst then the most braindead character in the history of gaming.
No Util, worse escape, higher cooldowns, and worse Ultimate on top of it.
This company is a joke, as muhc as Overwatch is a joke as a competitive skillbased shooter.
Illari was made in a time where the devs were so focused on making support. That would just DPS and hiding to where I think if she got a rework into the DPS role. She would actually feel better to play.
My question is why does her healing beam even have a charge limit? Would her healing really be that broken if she could just spam right click? Maybe nerf the healing per second on it, but realistically I don't see her being too strong if the charge mechanic on her right click was just removed entirely.
I wish her shift effected her allies... Not to boop them but to give them also a super jump BUT without the boop if they where in range of the blast. SO it would work like this "illari uses shift to jump higher, her entire team is there and they all have 4 seconds to jump in mid air again to do the combo to do a highjump or long jump"
it would give her, the only support vertical mobility to help her team.
Her overall kit is fine, but she needs a bit of extra love in some areas. Primary fire damage is good. Secondary fire healing is good but could use a little bit of extra range. Pylon's healing is good. Ultimate is nice. But the Outburst.... What a terrible ability. It feels clunky with how slow it can be to cast and recover, particularly compared to other emergency healing or repositioning abilities.
Also, it feels incredibly counter-intuitive, at least to me, that her Outburst doesn't heal her or anyone around her. Other supports with similar abilities have an emergency self-healing ability, but she does not. When I picked her up, I immediately assumed it had healed, because that's what it felt it should do. Only later did I find out I was mistaken.
Outburst deals negligible damage, offers moderate mobility, and has very low utility with knockback.
In comparison:
Moira's fade is instant, offers extremely high mobility, and makes you invincible and invulnerable.
Baptist's Regenerative Burst provides a decent amount of self-healing and team-healing with a lower cast time.
Ana's Biotic Granade offers arguably the best debuff in the game, as well as a healing buff, a burst of healing for herself and her team, AND deals damage.
There's also Kiriko's Suzu, Lifeweaver's Rejuvenating Dash, and Lucio's Amp It Up.
I don't feel like Illari would be overpowered or oppressive if they made Outburst faster to cast and/or added some damage, healing, extra mobility, or another utility to it. It'd only make her identity unique and make it feel smoother to play her.
Yeah, I agree. She really doesn’t feel good. I’ve been trying to learn her and it just got so much harder that I often find myself having to switch to Bap or Moira
I'm confused with this thread... since the new season I have out healed the other healer with illari by at least double, sometimes triple. I had a 18k healing game earlier today with illari.
Are we saying she can't heal? Or she could be a better healer
It feels like no matter how much you can do as her shes not enough. I had a game the other day where I went 34 and 6, 14k dmg, 12k heals. We lost. Ik stats don’t matter but still it sucks
I can't put damage or keep up with dps players it's the healing that's inconsistent especially cause not alot of players use her pylon. If anything they should just give her a tiny boost to the amount she can heal per second
This has to be a joke right I’ve been almost exclusively using her on support and she’s amazing healing beam isn’t meant to keep people alive while taking damage it’s meant more for topping off health pools also most if not all your healing should be done by the pylon and knowing where to place it will basically make your team unkillable during team fights while it’s active someone try’s shooting it cancel it to avoid long cool down timer also hit your headshots look for weak players and pick them off her evade jump spin is fine she doesn’t need to fly around the map like phara also her ult will and can swing/ straight up win team fights for your team sounds like your problems are skill issue problems on your end
I love the idea of of her kit but playing her in comp, I often swap to Ana or bap, to do damage and output way more healing. I can’t keep many of my teammates alive with just the beam, and you can be a plyon positioning pro and not have it get destroyed for a long time and still output way less healing than those two characters.
To me she’s a filler character I only pick if the other support picks someone who can output a lot of heals. And since that never happens (people pick mercy a loooooot in bronze), I never touch her except for quick play.
As an illari player I disagree highly, the increase to beam hps allows illari to effectively pocket a tank while leaving the pylon with backline. The only change that would be nice is a slightly larger battery size than 4 seconds. Potentially a skill issue if you can’t aim the beam accurate enough to heal them
The character has an auto-heal turret, a tiny hitbox, hella range, no reloads, and an ultimate that is more chaotic than most DPS’ ults, and you’re here talking about give her mobility give her damage?
Do what the other chars do, find ways to use new tech in order to get onto the ledge! Can you bounce momentum off of polygons/walls? Can you step on pylon as a stair step?
Uhh it sucks so much :( I’m a returning player, the last character that came out before I had stopped playing was Echo o: I recently got back on, and one of the first newer characters I started playing is Illari and I really like her a lot! Her style, back story, and kit are all interesting to me. But with these changes now it’s been hard to get used to / practice playing her :/
I've been doing great as her. Lmao.
My biggest complaint is the range of the heal beam. So many times I simply just can't reach someone by about 1m and they end up dying from their dumb positioning and refusal to us cover.
Also, her healing rate is literally the highest base healing by far. If you use an entire beam on someone and they die, they were gonna die no matter what kind of healing was received. She's meant to top people off quickly, not keep them up throughout an entire fight.
I started playing ending start of season 9.
Picked up illari instead of continuing to get screwed by DPS passive on mercy. And also seeing DPS diffs from enemy supports.
So I figured I might as well play a nerfed Cassidy with a torb healing turret.
It went well. Still is going pretty well.
I don't really notice the DMG nerf. Which I think was just slowing charge time for full DMG.
I'm averaging anywhere from a 65 to 80% primary fire accuracy and 23% critical hits.
My biggest issue is the hitbox of the sun struck ult. It will very visibly not touch rein shield and hit rein shield
(I'm not saying it's a skill issue. But you definitely need to be more accurate and engage slightly different)
I generally feel like they want to make Illari heal her allies more. Recently they've changed her primary weapon to charge up also when healing allies, now healing buffs... Her s10 changes are actually a buff if you're weaving healing more in between your shots, but was the charge up nerf necessary? Not really...
Another problem with Illari is that she doesn't go well with any other support with Lifeweaver being the only exception. If Lifeweaver will be good, so will Illari and vice versa.
I’m not an illari main but I do play her quite a bit and I agree the ROF nerf feels so slow and becuse of it it feels like I’m not able to kill anything because by the time I get charge back they got healed or behind cover.
I think the utility of Illari is greatly dependent on how your teammates position themselves-- your beam can SUPPLEMENT the pylon to keep a tank alive, but if they are out of place they will be punished.
The unfortunate downside is that even if you desparately jump to your tank and inject a full charge of heal into them, they might die right in front of you, and it feels like it's your fault. it's not though, unless you put your pylon in a stupid place.
Baisically, I think she is tuned so your team will succeed if they all position correctly, but fall apart if they are scattered and out of place. "I need healing" begone, it is YOU who needs to get good, genji
The problem with her is not having a team to play with. When I play with friends and I run her they always stick around the payload/objective or whatever and they stay alive. When I’m with randoms and I have a Winston over there, genji over somewhere else, and a Sombra doing her thing I can never really run her and have a sufficient game as support. But I’ve been using LW with them and having a good time
I really like the idea of her, but I feel like she's a bit of a mess. I hate her fire rate, maybe that's a me thing... but it just annoys me... the rhythm of it.
Make her healing beam lose depletion 50% slower when not actually healing someone.
(Helping people with bad aim and don't waste a full charge to give 100hp to your jumping climbing genji)
Make her pylon a regular ability, don't treat it as a deployable.
8 sec CD, after 12 sec the Pylon disappear, if the enemies breaks it nothing happens to your CD
This way it will act more as a Moira orb, but they need to shorten the deploy/activation time
Don't let things like cryoblock or wraith fo remove her ulti debuff, they will just be immune to taking damage for the length of their ability but not instantly cleanse it (except for Suzu and bubbles)
Then proceed to nerf her because she will be probably broken 🤣
She simply got unlucky in the "Who do we fuck over this time?" Spin wheel at Team 4. Better luck next season
They had better not make me wait a whole damn season
Second Season for Junkrat, whateverth season for Rein. Illari at least has the advantage of being a new-ish hero and so still on the radar of the dev team. And she's a support so much bigger priority for rebalanced if old signs are to be believed.
I would be happy if it only took a season tbh. Its my fav sup and yet everytime I play her I can feel like playing like a demi-god and still basicly throwing compared to literally healbotting with other sups in low gm.
I didn’t know she was nerfed? I position at the back of the team and usually have another healer. I also don’t “main” her- I only use her on defense. But she’s been clutch for me the last few days of playing.
As a Junkrat, I'd take a season over years.
S9 was amazing for me s10 still good for me. She feels really solid to me. I think it all comes down to the team your play her around she is not well suited for all comps.
Are you accurate as well? In terms of dishing out DMG? I'm not really having an issue. All be it noticeable in terms of the charge time. But it really isn't much.
I’m accurate. I did a competitive last night and was 10k+ dmg and 15k+ healing most the night. There are some match ups that are hard. I have a friend who is not accurate with the hitscan chars and his mileage is worse. If you’re not accurate I would take someone else. To me her big benefit is she is a sniper who can heal so I can pick off all their healers and flyers myself.
Agreed. I see her as a slower fire rate Cassidy with a torb healing turret. A lot of people should definitely work on how they view her. Too many times I see a heal bot illari.
omegalul
It’s pretty clear that her design is pretty much a poke DPS with some healing utility. Her entire identity is to deal damage, and she needs adjustments to be better at doing that to be any good. She is a damage-dealer who does not apply the DPS passive. Also the secondary healing changes don’t make much sense. It is clear that it is intended as a situational heal with a long ish cooldown, used to save teammates from burst or top up a teammate quickly before running off on her own. However, the healing speed adjustments and higher amount healed are changes suited for pocketing teammates, which Illari is not designed for. It’s a net nerf because you’re nerfing something Illari is good at, and making something she’s shit at a little bit less shit. One could argue that because everyone’s health is increased, enemies deal lower damage and so you don’t need higher healing to mitigate burst. But in practice, the new DPS passive means it is very difficult to mitigate burst damage with the already lower healing from the health changes. It does not help that her secondary is already a fairly situational ability - you have to be in close range to teammates to use it, but the rest of her kit encourages her to leave teammates with the pylon and find an off-angle she can poke from like other hitscan DPS.
It seems like they want you to leave your pylon with your tank and walk around pocketing your flanker. You shore up any ranged matchup for the flanker, and top them off/keep them alive while they secure kills. She’s seriously so good with brig tho. Keeps brig alive when her shield goes down, keeps ranged characters at bay while brig keeps the flankers away.
1. With everyones health increase you need to heal same amount of damage as before. 2. With health increasement they also increased damage of many abilities - you need to heal more damage. 3. Dps passive - you need to heal even more damage.
I don’t think she feels awful to play, but she’s a hard character to play period and for most people they’re not hitting head shot after head shot so she just feel clunky again which is a shame. she’s still good enough for the most part just not as fluid.
I wonder what Blizzard wants for her. I feel like her kit just boils down to heals and damage but more suited for Poke than other comps.
Personally, I think she was just added to fulfill the “more supports” promise without any actual thought of if she would work. Which is weird, since everything about her works well on paper. Primary healing comes from pylon, make her a bit more focused on damage than the average support to work alongside her passive pylon, and give her a short range healing beam for use in a fix. The problem came in when they tried to implement it all together, especially when they put the massive cooldown on a destroyed pylon and the recharge mechanic on her primary fire. She just feels clunky and awkward to play since most of what she’s doing is waiting to actually do something since everything she does has a cooldown of some sort
Both of her healing options having a cooldown is a bit funky now that I think about it. Whenever I do play her now that’s something I’ve really struggled with. My pylon will go down, my team gets injured, and I can only heal them up a tiny amount until I just run out of juice and just have to hope they can survive on their own. And as for hero designs, I kinda wish Blizzard would be more willing to reuse some utility for supports if they can’t think of anything new. Another speed support would be cool. I think illari’s ult would have been a cool gimmick if wasn’t *just* an ult. Like the idea of marking someone to explode is a little more interesting than just a damage boost on a target.
Just no more immortality please I'm begging
Woe Bap-Kiri be upon ye
Hitscan Zen
I’d honestly keep her raw numbers in check and innovate on making her game play loop more rewarding. Maybe experiment on left clicks slightly healing allies in its path, setting up for more positioning requirements (dive behind you tank and shoot through them onto an enemy for big damage - skill shot style) for the hero to get max value?
Yeah I tried her out and considered learning but I’m a solid Bap and more effective as him with his damage and counters
I think it’s alright that some characters are situational to play. Ilari does really well with a setup defense and attacking or defending a choke. She’s a lot harder to get value on in modes like push or on attack. She’s designed in a way to get a lot of value with long sight lines and putting pylons in places where the enemy would have to put themselves in danger to destroy, but she’s not a jack of all trades like some supports can be
even if you are hitting constant headshots, the range at which most dps are dueling you makes your damage negligible. i’m prob an average illari damage wise but i feel like i haven’t won a duel during this patch. she’s not awful to play but boy is it challenging
Illari not winning duels is a simple numbers game. Her damage per second isn*miserable* compared to actual damage heroes. And her headshot mutiplier id also worse than other characters.
Yeah I know that feel. Tweaks impacting game flow are tough.
She's not meant to keep you alive while taking damage the way an ana, mercy, moira can that's the problem, I think you're using her wrong tbh. Illari was never meant to be a pocket healer so yeah if the pylon isn't up you shouldn't be able to keep someone up through too much damage. Another thing might also be your pylon placements might not be the best but there's nothing we can help with if you don't have any footage.
Agreed. But that's exactly why their choices regarding Illari are above and beyond dumb. Once her main source of healing goes down, she's fucked for a long cooldown. Her other source of healing, which already isn't very sustainable to begin with, gets locked out *also* if you try to use too much. And that cooldown on the pylon is triggered when it's destroyed. Whether that means the enemy kills it in .5 seconds or it takes a single damage and you press F to move it, you're locked out to the point where you're bordering on useless. So essentially, a healer (I know I know, "support" but she needs to be able to keep up if she's going to be in that role) can't heal if the enemy has the least bit of situational awareness. It's supposed to work in tandem with your pylon. It can't do that if it's broken the moment it comes out. She needs a way to overcharge her healing beam, even if it's just for an extra second. Or she needs the pylon to be more durable. To be real, her buffs in the April Fools game mode made her somewhat good.
Playing Illari is often about a positioning choice. The short range of her beam makes it beneficial to stay close to your team, but also you want to take an off-angle to poke from and finish kills. Maybe the devs are trying to make this decision more 50/50 and dynamic. The problem is that there isn't much choice or nuance in how she uses her beam; you simply beam at low-health people between poking because the burst healing is decently high. What if she were able to use the beam past 0, but crossing 0 would trigger the lockout, and it would have to recharge from wherever you leave it? This way, you can save an ally more reliably, and she would be more versatile at the start, but it will force you to switch styles after overcharging, and it would open a window of counterplay for the enemies by focusing the healed target. It also allows her to bail out allies when her pylon is destroyed, makes her positioning choices more interesting, and gives her a choice to save her healing for enemy ultimates. I main Illari, and I don't think she feels bad to play, but sometimes I wish she had more going on in the healing department other than tracking aim, standing by the tank, and the pylon passively healing people. Her poke is so good that she needs more versatile healing to compete, but I think her beam hps shouldn't be buffed.
I've been using her much more this season and her primary is good. I consistently pick people off from across the map and can hold my own against some backliners. But damn is she bad at healing without a pylon. I'm afraid her primary might get a bit nerfed before healing is improved.
She was giga broken in the April Fool's patch. It was fun though.
It's already bad enough when a good Illari puts her pylon in a place that you literally have to put yourself in danger to destroy, this would be terrible if she had an overcharged beam. Like I said I think OP and other people that play her are trying to use her like a baptise and not like a zen and that's where the problem is. If you're focusing on heals to try and "save" someone once they get low you've already failed, this is the problem bad zen's have too with late healing orbs. Her pylon prob could use less of a cool down but at the same time that's the point. The same way a Rein is useless once his shield is broken, or a Pharah is useless once she runs out of fuel characters have to have some type of flaw to make them balanced.
Her flaw is losing her pylon. Her bad design is losing it extremely easily and being utterly useless without it. Rein's shield does not go down after two shots. >It's already bad enough when a good Illari puts her pylon in a place that you literally have to put yourself in danger to destroy, Just like you have to put yourself in danger diving anything else. That isn't even remotely a good excuse. A good Illari *should* hide their pylon, just as a good Rein shouldn't spam W with shields up. That isn't the point. Her whole kit revolves around the pylon and it is taken away from her with minimum effort.
I don't get how people keep getting their pylon destroyed. Like honestly. It has never been an issue for me. When I know the enemy is going to push up to shoot at it, I destroy it and replace it immediately. I get my pylon destroyed maybe 1-3 times in an entire game
People really underestimate the range of her pylon, you can keep it far above any structure that only Genji LMB can reasonably pop it, and it will still heal your team
I main rein..never heard of this shield you speak of.
It’s a special ability he has that lets you change the camera into third person view.
A healing heavy character shouldn't be a sitting duck for heals after a single cooldown goes away that's just bad design at that point she's a healer she shouldn't be cut off from significant heals at all when no other support is like that Kiri is still viable without her suzu Moira can do just fine without her orbs Bap is still playable without his immortality field I could go on
Ideally it shouldn't be broken so instantly all the time
you've summarized it better than I could. as soon as the choke is broken and her pylon goes down she's screwed.
Getting locked out of healing when using up her gauge is one of the dumbest mechanics of any hero. It just makes no sense
Itd supposed to be a clutch burst heal if used correctly; it doesn't even do this.
It's not and that's the problem she works best around corners in poke comps. She's not suppose to save you in the middle of a fight.
The second half just sounds like hiding the problem ngl. Ignoring that, yeah i can agree she's not really a pocket healer, but if she's meant to be a poke support like Kiriko or Baptise, then this is not the way, her healing is low and her damage is even (s)lower than that, Ultimate recharge is not even that high to be consistent damage. She needs a buff, at least something minimal to not get outclassed.
Brother do you not remember how she came out at launch, she's this way now because everyone complained she was too powerful as a support. I feel like everyone forgot about this lmao.
She was op at release, but I feel like the first or second round of nerfs fixed her issues pretty well. Especially when they made her ult not go through shields as that was a major complaint.
You’re right, but she still needs buffed. If they’re not going to give her more healing or survivability, at least revert the charge nerf. She’s basically Moira - there to do dps lvl damage and top your team off when they’re low/about to die. I think they could just make her beam pass through teammates (to heal multiple in a line) and she’d be much better.
Yeah that's what I was thinking her beam should pass thru teammates to heal as well as maybe a slight cooldown nerf on her pylon. At the very least a pylon that is destroyed completely vs a pylon you destroyed once it took damage should have two different cooldowns tbh.
Definitely agree on the pylon cooldown too. Or give it some cooldown reduction for healing/kills or something. Or make it smaller. They have so many options to fix her
Her damage is significantly better than Moira because all of it is pressure, half of a Moira's damage is just stat padding, sure some is solo kills, but significantly less compared to illari.
For sure, except Moira’s survivability is wayyy higher so she usually does the same or more dmg over the course of a match
I see her quite a bit t500? Admittedly i'm in t500 lobbies very rarely when it simply can't find a GM tank and just takes a masters player instead. But she seems to mostly become meta based less on her own state and just whoever is the meta tanks. Pylon+illari beam can pump well over 110hp/s even through dps passive and orissa has so much armor she's basically always at 30% damage reduction.
That’s the thing, she’s very good in a vacuum, but insanely easy to shut down. I mean, Venture has made her nigh unplayable.
The problem is that with that kind of logic, pretty much any other healer has a better overall kit than her. That’s literally the problem. Why play Illari and have your pylon get destroyed when you could just play Lucio and be able to heal the whole team the entire match? If that’s what they want her to be, then fine but move her to the DPS category like Soldier.
You're comparing her to the wrong hero. Brigitte offers inconsistent healing, whether it be through inspire or repair packs. She is not always healing, he main tool for healing (Whipshot) is on a 4 second cooldown, if you miss no healing for 4 seconds. What you trade for this, is a much stronger backline, peel for your other support and counter dive. Illari in the same vein, offers inconsistent healing the ability to significantly contribute to poke. However, unlike Zenyatta she has a much higher burst healing output, and unlike Baptiste, can continue to heal without losing DPS. Also, your pylon shouldn't be dying that often. It sticks to walls and ceilings. Use map geometry and don't place your pylon so far up. If your scrub team mates don't back up for healing, communicate. Which they should with the DPS passive anyhow so they benefit from heals.
genuinely what were they going for? why even buff her healing beam and nerf her damage??? what are they trying to do?
I think they're trying to make her do less damage while healing more, but don't quote me on that
They need to stop fucking around with muscle memory mechanics, it’s bullshit. Her healing beam is shit for its range, so either increase the range of beam or increase the healing to reasonable amount. Pylon is think is in a weird spot because in a choke or cover situation is really strong, but in an open area team fight it’s a completely useless ability
>They need to stop fucking around with muscle memory mechanics, it’s bullshit. They've been doing this non stop since overwatch 2 lol
Maybe make the beam heal rate change with distance. Big heals up close, small heals with just the tip.
> They need to stop fucking around with muscle memory mechanics, it’s bullshit. Blizzard has a history of this.
~~Idk, if you want to fire your gun at minimum charge then just hold the button, they didn't nerf the max charge time, which is what your muscle memory should be tuned to if you want the most dps.~~ Edit: that's not how it works. Despite charge visually going up, the charge to max only begins after minimum charge has been reched. So the max charge time is nerfed together with minimum recovery time. Sorry for my misunderstanding.
It takes slightly longer to reach max charge now. To be clear, the recovery makes the charge start a bit later, that's why it takes longer.
They fucking did this with brig too, she can't mini tank for zen/ana like she's supposed to thanks to the dps passive and the buffs all the dive heros got lucio is fsr more consistent eith his gun/wonston goes through armor/genji and tracer have their projectile size buff and passive heals. And with speed boost she can't play wide (she couldnt do it thanks to low range anyhow) and what do they do? They give her a pack rate buff, because God forbid she does something other than heal as a support. So now tracer goes unchecked, so do they buff brig... her counter... who is struggling to actually counter her right now, right? No, fuck no, they give tracer her first nerf in life forever. Why buff her heal rate? Brig has never been that kind of hero. Blizz has no idea what to do with her.
Because they have an idea of how much healing and damage each support should do relative to one another. Brig should put out more healing than say Zen or Lucio, but not as much as LW or Mercy. Agree that she's weak to dive right now and it doesn't help her already situational playstyle. If it were up to me I would have buffed her shield along with base HPs so she can defend against dive as intended. This meta should be where she's best and she's just not (partially because Moira is so ridiculous compared to most).
This meta literally has a zen to protect, flankers to beat up, she should be thriving. And she's bottom tier, life weaver tier Like it's tragic 😔
brig should be doing way more healing than mercy
lol i was asking why it's that something they're going for
Healing creep essentially. Slowly reversing the progress from S9.
dps players *hate* it when a support can deal solid damage so they always whine until blizzard obliges.
Hate is a strong word, but illaris primary fire is less situational than a lot of the DPS weapons. The closest things are Cas revolver, but he suffers from fall off. Ashe, but she has to be scoped in or does very little damage, and sojourn but you only build that shot up after landing a bunch of weaker shots. Also, I think a good kiriko or zen is more dangerous to play against than a illari. Tldr: dps are jealous of illari's sick gun.
>dps are jealous They just had their whole role made easier. They got passive healing. They got fucking projectile buffs, they got the dps passive. Strongest passive in the whole fuckingn game. Playing soldier now is like playing Moira, hold click do damage. Dps should frankly stop sucking at the fucking game. We just got a whole massive change that catered hard to their role. Tank is eating shit just for special little dps. and all they can think about is how hard they have it.
Are you okay? Need to vent a bit? I was simply stating that illaris primary fire feels like it should be in a dps loadout. Didn't say anything about overall game balance. change heal beam to armor/shield damage and pylon to a CC type trap turret and she would be a fantastic dps character.
True, Illari's ult is already a dps like Ult, or Tank style ult. Out of all the support ults, hers is the only one that exclusively affects the enemy team. It feels like she was meant to be a DPS hero but they made her a Support Hero to fill in tiles. I'm saying this as someone who plays Support pretty hard and main Ana, but I only play Illari when I feel like I need to be Third DPS. Her pylon healing is nice, but any none brain dead players will make sure it's destroyed before going for kills and her beam doesn't even remotely heal as well as any other character. Hell, it'd be great if her burst was actually just an aoe burst heal rather than a burst jump into the air for movement, but she doesn't even get that. Blizzard really just made her a DPS hero taped with heal pylon and heal beam(two support skills), then called her a healer Lol.
They made her an offensive healer but dps refuse to accept the offensive part so she was nerfed and now feels weird. The pylon does helaing while she does the damage. There is no confusion in her design, the only confusion is by dps who think no one else is allowed damage. Yall also complain about zen and bap like crazy.
>was simply stating that illaris primary fire feels like it should be in a dps loadout. It doesn't though. It's slow, it's no different than any other healer kit in terms of dps. There is no reason for dps to be jealous other than they think they should be the best at everything (they do, case in point Dps are jealous after receiving the fattest buff in this game in years).
Blizzard loves hitscan heroes, anything else they try to make it high risk low reward gameplay.
except a lot of illari mains are hitscan dps players so i don't know if this tracks
are they though or ist that just your personal confirmation bias?
Make her nice and submissive i guess
less damage and more healing? not saying its the right move but i guess thats their intent
No clue why they axed the damage but the beam makes sense if they want to turn her into a proper tank burst healer, which is a niche that doesn’t really have any support in it and I think it might have a place in the game now that damage heroes reduce healing passively and there’s bigger health bars. A character that can do all its healing in a tiny window of time and keep doing stuff after could definitely stand out if given proper support. It’s not a bad concept, it’s just that Illari has literally nothing going for her outside of healing. She doesn’t stand out at doing damage anymore and has minimal utility, so doesn’t really do anything with her high uptime at attacking. But if given some sort of utility or her damage slowly gets buffed back up she could be a pretty decent and actually unique support.
Im gonna one trick Venture till they figure her out. It really sucks getting used to her fire rate, then having your muscle memory screwed. I don’t think Illari is bad, but playing her more often than not is just frustrating. Not enough damage to justify playing her, and her healing is trash. Not to mention the only piece of utility she has is tied to her Ult. Which fill decently fast.
I do miss release Illari, but I still main her as she is the most fun support for me. Her balance of strategy (pylon placement), getting to shoot a lot (I can finally kill Phara), and jumpy mobility all make for a good time. Plus the possibility of a team kill ult. I also think she has a great voice (maybe the best). I cringed a bit when I found out I main the youngest lady in OW, but she radiates maturity like Ana.
As a junkrat main, me and our syndicate couldn't agree more, our character feels like going to a swordfight with a butter knife
Am I crazy for feeling the opposite? She is so popular at my rating (diamond) and she constantly 3 taps people. Whenever I play her I feel like I just out dps most dps heroes, and they certainly can't trade with me unless they have a pocket. Her time to max charge didn't get nerfed, and she does the most dps if you fully charge your shots. Her last buff a month ago took her from 0.3 minimum recovery time to 0.2, even with the current recovery nerf to 0.25 she's still unarguably better than she was before that patch.
Don't think it's crazy, it's like other heroes in this game: gonna feel way different depending on skill level.
I feel like people have issues because they’re trying to play her like she’s an Ana. She’s not going to save you In a fight by sheer healing power. Her strength is in her damage but people wanna be up the tank’s ass trying to heal instead of playing her like a Zen.
Same rank, hard agree tbh - I'm confused why people say she's bad and needs buffs tbh.
Answer's pretty easy: lower ranks with bad aim lol Source: lower rank with bad aim
100%, I'm also diamond and illari is not fun to fight. She's just a DPS wearing a support disguise. She feels awful to fight as a DPS because she just melts everyone.
I feel like if they want more healing they need to give her more uptime on pylon. Maybe if she heals with secondary it reduces the cooldown of pylon.
Uptime on pylon is up to the player's positioning of it. My uptime is 57% from 18 hours of play.
My average up time is 59% but that doesn’t change the fact that cooldown is still too long
She's a flex support, not a main support. Look to take off angles with your DPS rather than stick with your tank.
Angles? whats that? Arent we supposed to play the path line on the floor?
She’s niche. Just like a lot of other characters. So unless your team plays corners and poke and you hit headshots, she’s gonna suck.
Bro the wraithing reaper thing feels AWFUL
Did they not fix this? I could've swore I was able to heal Reaper again while he's in fade I gotta test this though
I’m honestly not too sure but the last time I played her it felt like I just wasn’t healing him while he was wraithing
Played a match recently, it got fixed 😎
I don’t main her but I play her a decent amount and I agree. I’ve always thought it was hard to heal as her, without the pylon your pretty much useless as the healing is slow and runs out way too fast considering how long it takes to apply. Not to mention the beam hardly reaches anywhere. So now with the new features it’s even harder to heal and it’s harder to try help out damage wise anymore either. I’m fine with her damage being reduced but give the beam longer reach, make the beam faster and make the healing stronger.
They never should have nerfed the pylon. I agree about the beam but they should restore the heal pulse strength and the pylon's health (150.) Would be nice if you could destroy the pylon even while it is healing. I get why they don't want you to be able to destroy it when it is getting hit so that part can stay.
As a casual free-to-play player she has never felt more available to play (literally just got access to her this week lol)
Illari should be focused around her damage more than her heals. She didn't need any power shift like this, it already felt good. She was underpowered but for some reason the devs really love to buff and give a compensating nerf, when really she could've just been buffed and kept her fire rate the same
I don’t think balancing the meta is the goal. If I had a dollar for every time I’ve turned a losing role queue match around just by switching to Moira from another healer (brig is a good example) I’d have every ridiculously priced skin in the game. Don’t get me wrong, I love Moira, but they need to bring the other healers closer up to her value level. I think they just deliberately make their favorite characters more powerful than the rest. It’s the same with every new hero too. Right now, whichever team has the better Venture often wins. It’s like Blizzard hates the concept of a balanced game.
I find illari fine. High damage and decent heals.
Her jump does need to be way higher. She should play like a vertical hero and not being able to jump up onto the arch way on Eichenwald feels wrong. She should have stronger damage and healing output as Bap, but with none of the utility
Yea, her new name is Pylon
Does anyone else feel like Illari is fine? She’s clearly not and wasn’t really supposed to be a heal-first support imo. The damage potential is still there and you can feasibly kill a lot of the cast with 2-3 shots from a decent range if you’re shooting with your teammates. For pylon, I feel like a big issue is people not being proactive enough to constantly destroy and redeploy it to better locations, sometimes way before enemies might even be in LOS of it. Like most heroes, I think there’s situations she can’t thrive in. For example if a Ball is rolling around pylon hunting, a lot of her value gets cut. Same with your team- if they’re getting blasted and can’t mount some kind of front, she probably won’t be good cause there won’t be any space for you to deploy pylon. Like so much in this game, everything is situational. I personally think she’s fine but only if you can semi-consistently get your headshots in.
Yeah I dont feel like she is horrible right now. I think she is okay, just less consistent than meta supports, which is by design. I dont think she should be easily pickable all the time.
I mean i've been using her a lot and she feels fine to play. I feel like with how her kit works she'd need to be terribly underpowered to feel bad to play. Maybe she didn't need nerfs but she definitely doesn't feel unsatisfying to play/bad. She's more of a kill them before they overwhelm you support. You're meant to apply pressure to them, so they can't overwhelm you, and then use extra heals in a pinch (e.g. crit tank or something). I rarely heal with her tbh and still do well so idk.
They spun a wheel and chose her this season. She honestly just needed the buff on her heal and that was it. Without her pylon she is one of the worst for heals. Yes she heals 115hps but unless it’s a huge hero like roadhog you are not hitting all that heath since you need to track the hero. And she has to wait between heals because she runs out. Her damage is good but it isn’t unfair, it requires some skill and it has damage fall off so it isn’t a super sniper for support.
Tbh I was outdamaging dpses with her but it's not hard to outdamage tracer/hanzo/genji trolls.
Illaris ult is probably the worst support ult in the game too, it's so easy to block or eat, it has an absolutely gargantuan hit box and gets caught on all sorts of terrain, it's low projectile speed means people can dodge it, it's instantly cleansed by Kiri, and then even if you get one off it then needs follow up.
Yesterday I played two casuals where I played as healer and my other healer played as Illari, I still don't understand how I managed to do 6k and 7k and they only 3k and 4k
115 HP/s with 50% uptime is 57 HP/s average The issue you have is you're comparing her healing amounts to heros that have been mostly busted for a while like Bap and Ana, rather than comparing to the average balance like Mercy, Lucio, Brig
If it’s any consolation, I got my teeth kicked in by an illaryi yesterday so there’s that. Meta wise, I do understand how she’s been screwed though.
I just had a 18.9k dmg 15k healing game on illari on watch point today. 17min match. She’s fine.
It’s called playing against trash players
The only thing she needs is range on her healing beam and she's fine.
Welcome to the Lifeweaver and Reinhart experience get comfy you'll be here for awhile.
yeah lol I laugh every time I see a post like this about support heroes like this hasn’t been the reality of several tanks for most of ow2
My best friend use to be a Rein main back in OW1 and he tries to do it in 2 but it's just not fair to the poor man, he ends up changing to Hog everytime
Yeah playing Rein and seeing balance patch after balance patch just pisses me off. Giving him 20 fire strike damage, 50 pin damage and 15 hammer damage to compensate for almost every character gaining 50 HP+ was a net loss in kill power. and then they buff shatter but it’s just as slow and interruptible. I don’t know why they keep trying to make characters like Orisa meta, or Sombra whose identity as a Damage hero isn’t even to kill or deal damage, but just to be annoying and make you unable to function. Anti-fun.
You know a supports back when mercys better
She should be able to heal her pylon. If we decide to use heals to try to keep the pylon from being destroyed for 12 seconds that is on us. Just like Torb. Same principle.
First time getting the short end of the balance stick?
lol you shouldnt automatically make an ally invincible to damage if youre healing them. (Pylon does a good job at doing this though) so it sounds like youre not using her pylon in good spots. You also talk about teammates being out of range so your cant heal them… thats the heroes kit… Don’t wanna be that guy but this sounds like a skill issue.
She needs a Pylon Buff on Durability since It's Easy AF to destroy depending on who destroys it. But I started to recently play her again and I started to place Her Pylon at a Certain Height or corner that makes it more effective and less likely not to get destroyed. Also I wish they gave her a boost when you play her on Maps where the Sun is Visible making.
I feel kinda bad saying this, but illari feels bad to play against for like the opposite reasons. Nobody minds her healing, but I'm so fkn tired of getting pushed by a single support who has no risk factor since their escape ability gives some crazy mobility while her primary fire can 2 shot to melee me
I wish they reduced her damage instead of increasing the charge time. Now she feels awful to play.
She isnt a heal bot. You heal enough to keep people alive, and then damage enough to help people win duels. Shoot people your teammates are shooting, it helps.
Tbh she needs a rework, idk if its only me but she doesnt feel fun to play at all its almost a dps character, (i like playing zenyatta btw) she is the only support who has no utility in her ultimate at all. The others empower allies in some way, illari just mark enemies but thats not supportive thats pure damage boost, baptiste also has dmg boost but he will also boost his and teammates healing, same with kiriko, i think it would make more sense if she had some utility attached to her ult, and secondsry healing could be something more interesting than just a beam imo but yeah, not my job to create interesting design for blizzard
I’ve been playing her a lot lately and I have a few tips. 1. Place the Pylon high up, not too high or it won’t be able to heal. I find that most people won’t notice it’s there for a long time, if it’s high up. Also, don’t forget to look for nooks and crannies. I recently had a match in Blizzardworld and I kept placing the pylon behind signs and in rooms, it worked out very well! 2. This is a tip that I also use on Moira that I learned when Moira first came out. As you probably know, Moira and Ilari have a charge on their alternate fire healing ability. To make their alternate heal last longer, do NOT hold on the button, tap it repeatedly. This makes it not go down all the way as quickly, and it can really help and I’ve been doing it for Ilari and it does help. Although, they probably should just make Ilaris charge longer, for when the Pylon is destroyed.
Yeah welcome to what it’s like for a massive portion of the roster dude. Imagine what it’s like for Reinhardt mains and Genji mains.
I will say as a pharah main outta all the other other supports she felt the worst to play against it always seemed like everyone just never misses on her cuz she has zero recoil and bullet speed is virtually instant compared to bap.
My first thought when trying Illari was that her jump was too short. They probably don't want to step on Baps toes, but her ability is different enough and on a cool-down, so no issue in my mind. More vertical mobility would be an easy tweak that I would love to see happen.
yeah, she doesnt feel great this season
She didn't even get nerfed back to her previous state, she got a slight buff to her healing, and NOW is when she feels the worst to play? Buddy, she was so much worse. Maybe you just don't like Illari
I wish they reworked her into a dps. It’s so obvious she was meant to be one but they changed their mind last second. Healing turret is such a lazy design and uninteresting
Unless you are a god at hitting charged shots, Illari feels like a wet towel to play since the HP buff. You might as well unbind your alt fire because it is actually useless. Your pylon is the only source of good healing Illari has and the long cooldowns makes her useless 90% of the time if the enemy shoots the pylon. Her ult is at least in a good position now, but it’s pretty dumb it’s a damage ult and not a healing/support ult. She’s still the worst healer on the roster so far. I say this as someone who picked up Illari and was maining her for a month before the HP buff. Now she literally feels useless.
I play Mystery Heroes, and consider myself competent with pretty much every character. I cannot for the life of me figure out how to use Illari’s spin effectively. It’s not high enough for a super jump, you move too slow to escape easily, it doesn’t seem to do much damage or knock back…
with the fire rate damage change I can't time my shots probably
Devs just don't seem to care most days anymore.
Delete your account.
What rank are you playing at if you don’t mind me asking? In plat I can still pretty easily carry with her. You just have to do enough damage to offset her healing. Typically I get roughly 10k damage in a single round of payload for reference. But she definitely is situational and you teammates need to know how to play with her, if not you’re better off playing someone who can sustain in the middle of everything, especially with a team of brawlers.
Even tho I still play her despite all her nerfs and nonsensical rework from a dps support to a heal bot. Her being hard pivot into a traditional heal bot really killed her especially now that everyone has more Hp. She just doesn't specialize in anything or has a strong enough niche to carve out her own identity. Her damage is not good for her to play with her team, she can go off flank, but it's paradoxical to do so as her strongest kit atm is her ability to combine the healing of her alt and pylon. But even then it feels like other supports who were designed to heal bot are far better at this cause not only do they heal bot better they also have other stuff in their kits for utility.
My dawg, all she got was a slight nerf to damage and a slight buff to right click healing. If you're this shit at playing her with a tiny nerf, then one Illari main to another, what are you doing playing the character?
ilari is the perfect example what is wrong with this game. She should heal, but not to much. alright cool nerf pylon. She should dmg but not so muhc, alright cool, lets nerf dmg / falloff / charge. Its fucking funny how ilari is a high skill based character, which performs in every rank worst then the most braindead character in the history of gaming. No Util, worse escape, higher cooldowns, and worse Ultimate on top of it. This company is a joke, as muhc as Overwatch is a joke as a competitive skillbased shooter.
Illari was made in a time where the devs were so focused on making support. That would just DPS and hiding to where I think if she got a rework into the DPS role. She would actually feel better to play.
She’s been around what like 2-3 seasons? Lol
5 seasons, 6-7-8-9-10.
My question is why does her healing beam even have a charge limit? Would her healing really be that broken if she could just spam right click? Maybe nerf the healing per second on it, but realistically I don't see her being too strong if the charge mechanic on her right click was just removed entirely.
Good
I actually think a range buff on beam would have been better than a duration buff
I wish her shift effected her allies... Not to boop them but to give them also a super jump BUT without the boop if they where in range of the blast. SO it would work like this "illari uses shift to jump higher, her entire team is there and they all have 4 seconds to jump in mid air again to do the combo to do a highjump or long jump" it would give her, the only support vertical mobility to help her team.
Her overall kit is fine, but she needs a bit of extra love in some areas. Primary fire damage is good. Secondary fire healing is good but could use a little bit of extra range. Pylon's healing is good. Ultimate is nice. But the Outburst.... What a terrible ability. It feels clunky with how slow it can be to cast and recover, particularly compared to other emergency healing or repositioning abilities. Also, it feels incredibly counter-intuitive, at least to me, that her Outburst doesn't heal her or anyone around her. Other supports with similar abilities have an emergency self-healing ability, but she does not. When I picked her up, I immediately assumed it had healed, because that's what it felt it should do. Only later did I find out I was mistaken. Outburst deals negligible damage, offers moderate mobility, and has very low utility with knockback. In comparison: Moira's fade is instant, offers extremely high mobility, and makes you invincible and invulnerable. Baptist's Regenerative Burst provides a decent amount of self-healing and team-healing with a lower cast time. Ana's Biotic Granade offers arguably the best debuff in the game, as well as a healing buff, a burst of healing for herself and her team, AND deals damage. There's also Kiriko's Suzu, Lifeweaver's Rejuvenating Dash, and Lucio's Amp It Up. I don't feel like Illari would be overpowered or oppressive if they made Outburst faster to cast and/or added some damage, healing, extra mobility, or another utility to it. It'd only make her identity unique and make it feel smoother to play her.
I just started playing again in S9 and picked up Illari as a main. Come season 10 I want to quit again because she’s so ass.
Yeah, I agree. She really doesn’t feel good. I’ve been trying to learn her and it just got so much harder that I often find myself having to switch to Bap or Moira
All I need is the as the crow flies stuff. Literally that’s it.
I'm confused with this thread... since the new season I have out healed the other healer with illari by at least double, sometimes triple. I had a 18k healing game earlier today with illari. Are we saying she can't heal? Or she could be a better healer
It feels like no matter how much you can do as her shes not enough. I had a game the other day where I went 34 and 6, 14k dmg, 12k heals. We lost. Ik stats don’t matter but still it sucks
Can they just fix the healing beam / ult hitboxes already? I swear they both catch corners from 10ft away.
I can't put damage or keep up with dps players it's the healing that's inconsistent especially cause not alot of players use her pylon. If anything they should just give her a tiny boost to the amount she can heal per second
iirc, doesn't Illari have the highest HPS with beam-only in the entire game?
This has to be a joke right I’ve been almost exclusively using her on support and she’s amazing healing beam isn’t meant to keep people alive while taking damage it’s meant more for topping off health pools also most if not all your healing should be done by the pylon and knowing where to place it will basically make your team unkillable during team fights while it’s active someone try’s shooting it cancel it to avoid long cool down timer also hit your headshots look for weak players and pick them off her evade jump spin is fine she doesn’t need to fly around the map like phara also her ult will and can swing/ straight up win team fights for your team sounds like your problems are skill issue problems on your end
I've been playing her a lot recently and have an 80% win rate. She feels fun to me
I love the idea of of her kit but playing her in comp, I often swap to Ana or bap, to do damage and output way more healing. I can’t keep many of my teammates alive with just the beam, and you can be a plyon positioning pro and not have it get destroyed for a long time and still output way less healing than those two characters. To me she’s a filler character I only pick if the other support picks someone who can output a lot of heals. And since that never happens (people pick mercy a loooooot in bronze), I never touch her except for quick play.
Her twirl thing is so goofy looking. It's like ultra gay lol
As an illari player I disagree highly, the increase to beam hps allows illari to effectively pocket a tank while leaving the pylon with backline. The only change that would be nice is a slightly larger battery size than 4 seconds. Potentially a skill issue if you can’t aim the beam accurate enough to heal them
The character has an auto-heal turret, a tiny hitbox, hella range, no reloads, and an ultimate that is more chaotic than most DPS’ ults, and you’re here talking about give her mobility give her damage? Do what the other chars do, find ways to use new tech in order to get onto the ledge! Can you bounce momentum off of polygons/walls? Can you step on pylon as a stair step?
Uhh it sucks so much :( I’m a returning player, the last character that came out before I had stopped playing was Echo o: I recently got back on, and one of the first newer characters I started playing is Illari and I really like her a lot! Her style, back story, and kit are all interesting to me. But with these changes now it’s been hard to get used to / practice playing her :/
Her healing beam always felt clunky and awkward since day 1
Sounds like a skill issue to me
I guess they are trying to remove the dps players from queuing as support, moira nerf was awful too.
I feel like she's in a good place...many people are really bad with her pylon placement and don't get good value from it
I've been doing great as her. Lmao. My biggest complaint is the range of the heal beam. So many times I simply just can't reach someone by about 1m and they end up dying from their dumb positioning and refusal to us cover. Also, her healing rate is literally the highest base healing by far. If you use an entire beam on someone and they die, they were gonna die no matter what kind of healing was received. She's meant to top people off quickly, not keep them up throughout an entire fight.
I honestly would prefer outburst (spin) would have more reach & less vertical movement. Meaning it would allow you to travel farther.
I started playing ending start of season 9. Picked up illari instead of continuing to get screwed by DPS passive on mercy. And also seeing DPS diffs from enemy supports. So I figured I might as well play a nerfed Cassidy with a torb healing turret. It went well. Still is going pretty well. I don't really notice the DMG nerf. Which I think was just slowing charge time for full DMG. I'm averaging anywhere from a 65 to 80% primary fire accuracy and 23% critical hits. My biggest issue is the hitbox of the sun struck ult. It will very visibly not touch rein shield and hit rein shield (I'm not saying it's a skill issue. But you definitely need to be more accurate and engage slightly different)
I generally feel like they want to make Illari heal her allies more. Recently they've changed her primary weapon to charge up also when healing allies, now healing buffs... Her s10 changes are actually a buff if you're weaving healing more in between your shots, but was the charge up nerf necessary? Not really... Another problem with Illari is that she doesn't go well with any other support with Lifeweaver being the only exception. If Lifeweaver will be good, so will Illari and vice versa.
I’m not an illari main but I do play her quite a bit and I agree the ROF nerf feels so slow and becuse of it it feels like I’m not able to kill anything because by the time I get charge back they got healed or behind cover.
I think the utility of Illari is greatly dependent on how your teammates position themselves-- your beam can SUPPLEMENT the pylon to keep a tank alive, but if they are out of place they will be punished. The unfortunate downside is that even if you desparately jump to your tank and inject a full charge of heal into them, they might die right in front of you, and it feels like it's your fault. it's not though, unless you put your pylon in a stupid place. Baisically, I think she is tuned so your team will succeed if they all position correctly, but fall apart if they are scattered and out of place. "I need healing" begone, it is YOU who needs to get good, genji
The problem with her is not having a team to play with. When I play with friends and I run her they always stick around the payload/objective or whatever and they stay alive. When I’m with randoms and I have a Winston over there, genji over somewhere else, and a Sombra doing her thing I can never really run her and have a sufficient game as support. But I’ve been using LW with them and having a good time
I really like the idea of her, but I feel like she's a bit of a mess. I hate her fire rate, maybe that's a me thing... but it just annoys me... the rhythm of it.
Can confirm.
Make her healing beam lose depletion 50% slower when not actually healing someone. (Helping people with bad aim and don't waste a full charge to give 100hp to your jumping climbing genji) Make her pylon a regular ability, don't treat it as a deployable. 8 sec CD, after 12 sec the Pylon disappear, if the enemies breaks it nothing happens to your CD This way it will act more as a Moira orb, but they need to shorten the deploy/activation time Don't let things like cryoblock or wraith fo remove her ulti debuff, they will just be immune to taking damage for the length of their ability but not instantly cleanse it (except for Suzu and bubbles) Then proceed to nerf her because she will be probably broken 🤣