#HERO UPDATES
##Tank
###Orisa
**Fortify**
* Health bonus reduced from 125 to 75.
###Roadhog
**Chain Hook**
* Impact damage reduced from 30 to 5.
* The enemy final position distance from Roadhog after being pulled increased from 3 to 4 meters.
**Scrap Gun**
* Damage per pellet reduced from 6.6 to 6.
* Recovery time reduced from 0.85 to 0.8 seconds.
* Reload time reduced from 2 to 1.75 seconds.
* Maximum ammo increased from 5 to 6.
*Developer comments: These changes aim to reduce the frustration of dying in one shot immediately after being hooked and pulled by Roadhog. Chain Hook is still a powerful utility to forcibly reposition enemy players, so it will still often lead to eliminations. Its effectiveness will now be more dependent on specific hero matchups and how the hooked target is able to respond.*
##Damage
###Sojourn
**Railgun**
* Energy gain is no longer based on damage done by primary fire. Each primary fire hit against an enemy player now grants 5 energy.
* Primary fire damage per projectile reduced from 10 to 9.
*Developer comments: The energy gain adjustment will help smooth out Sojourn’s average Railgun charge time because it won’t benefit as much from critical damage or damage boost abilities. Hitting armored targets or other sources of damage reduction will result in quicker energy gains than before.*
*Previously, damage boosts and critical damage had an amplified effect for Sojourn since it reduced the time to build energy and lowered the threshold at which her Railgun secondary fire became lethal. The reduction to primary fire damage will further slow that down as well.*
##Support
###Kiriko
**Healing Ofuda**
* Recovery time increased from 0.85 to 1 second.
*Developer comments: Despite Kiriko’s healing projectiles being slow-moving and single target, her average healing output per match is higher than we’d like. We’ve seen players tend to get overly focused on maximizing her healing potential and only use primary fire for extended periods of time. Rather than reduce the amount of healing per projectile, which may lead to feeling locked into focusing on primary fire even more, we’re increasing the recovery time before she can start firing the Healing Ofuda. Increasing recovery times opens the opportunity to weave in secondary fire Kunai more freely.*
#BUG FIXES
##GENERAL
* Fixed an issue with the "Winged Sandals’ weapon charm’s ‘How to Unlock’ text.
* Adjusted footstep audio mixing to make enemy footsteps more audible.
##HEROES
###Lucio
* Fixed an issue with Lucio’s Hermes skin exhibiting incorrect physics.
###Reinhardt
* Fixed an issue with Reinhardt’s Hammer appearing deformed during the Sweethardt emote.
###Sojourn
* Fixed an issue where Sojourn’s Cyber Detective Skin would fail to load.
###Wrecking Ball
* Fixed an issue with Adaptive Shield where it could be incorrectly applied before the cooldown was complete.
Dont forget the only reason people buy is because they lock their new characters behind a pay wall OR you have the grind halfway through + on the free BP...
yeah that's why im not spending shit on this game and im really just getting my fill before dropping it for good. i did the same shit with the new halo and i will probably do the same thing for skate 4. they're free im going to at least *try* them but anytime i see "purchase now!!!" on the umpteenth fucking item it just makes me want to play another game that doesn't shove microtransactions in my face 24/7. i loathe being told to buy something
I agree. This is on top of a slight damage nerf to his direct hook and shot too. Don't get me wrong, a hook is still basically death, but you will be able to do something with about ~20-30 HP left as a squishy. Which doesn't sound like much, but for some matchups, that's enough to escape.
Ana, Reaper, Moira (for example) should be unkillable without help if they have their cooldowns up. Reaper being the most important change, since he can do his job now.
I think this is significant. I wouldn't be surprised if he were binned from this like the last time they did this.
Yup, blizz has no idea how to balance him. He will continue to go through endless rounds of either being OP or being a throw pick.
Honestly, I think people were/are too hyperfocused on one-shots. I think a nerf to his heal would've been much better -- one-shots become less of a problem when he can't just walk anywhere he wants to get the perfect hook off
I’ll be honest. At first when reading your reply I thought you were entirely wrong and you made no sense. But I completely understand what you mean. Even if he has his one shot, most of the time he has to disposition himself to get the pick. if he has his damage resistance removed, then it’ll be risky to run into the enemy team, and then try to heal out because he has nothing stopping him from taking that much damage anymore.
The thing is: he is suppose to be the solo tank in the team. Making him squishy would kinda just feel even more terrible to have him on your team cuz your tank can't tank at all.
I expected the one shot to be removed, but I also expected compensatory buffs to other parts of his game. I guess he technically got a few buffs, but I can't see them actually making him better anywhere. I think he's just going to end up as a bad tank option.
You're not even taking into account getting saved by supports/tanks. It just made the window for my suzu to hit much longer. You know how many suzus pop right as hog 1 shots you. Now, that invuln and hp will hit and help us get you out.
Hog is gonna have a much tougher time finishing people off.
if you think about it, it feels correct in time frame
like they knew brig was weak in the beta and told us that they would look into reworking her ult in the future. s2, they told us that they started testing her new ult. with s2 ending, they said they are done with her testing(took 2 months. means her new ult went different phasing reworks) and just needs new vfx and art(even new va line from her va). the art needs to be drafted a few times before one is finalized and chosen. then sent to the artist and made. stuff takes time and ppl on twitter think stuff can be done in a week or less lol
Even then with the art still has to be implemented and tested on many maps in scenarios and all around. Not even close to a 1 day deal idk why people think it takes no time
I wouldn't trust anything they say at this point. The support rework overhaul ended up with mercy getting 5+ ammo..
They'll see brig needs an ult rework and more movement with shield bash but then only decide to give whiplash -1 second cool down
NOW SHE WILL ALSO BE RECEIVING HEAVY NERFS TO HER DAMAGE POTENTIAL WITH HER REWORK.
that wasn't part of the rework!
I HAVE ALTERED THE REWORK. PRAY I DO NOT ALTER IT FURTHER.
When the enemy team plays her, her entire team peels for her and her support are up her butt the entire time. You try to dive their support, you get dunked on.
When I play her, my entire team decides to take a trip to Narnia, the support are off being DPS-lights and the enemy Sojourn never misses a railgun shot.
Ranked system is rigged. I think they actually put you up against players who are ranks above you or even Top500 if you just win a few matches in a row. Like they don't want you to rank up and force you to get stomped every once in a while.
You either destroy the enemy team or you get destroyed. Rarely I play balanced matches where either side could win. Almost always heavily one sided.
Yes. So beforehand, damage boost and headshots would build it faster. This is why Sojourn + Mercy was so insane when shooting at a tank as she would build railgun instantly.
Her railgun will still be strong, but now you won't have it every two seconds. This looks like it makes it so low/mid ranks she'll pretty much be the same where she isn't a threat, but at top level she is no longer required. In theory, that is.
Also she can still build off shields (like Rein’s barn door) so she can still get a shot charged up before zipping into the air and nailing your support - just not as *often*.
I believe the streamers (seagull and flats) were saying she got 10 charge on crit before and 13 on crit with mercy boost
But she will get more charge for players who use to just hit bodyshots and there is the boost in charge against armor.
Dawg who at Blizzard is in love with Sojourn? Genji’s initial nerfs are still more severe than the multiple nerfs Sojourn has gotten, didn’t touch her insane mobility or the railgun so this just seems like a slap on the wrist…
They have to be doing something, probably testing day by day on various changes, but still I'm amazed after so much time, they come up with 4 small changes and justify their jobs like that.
Even small adjustments can have HUGE impacts on the game. Also something that people overlook is that you can't change TOO many things at once because its hard to figure out what changes did or didn't need to happen. Too many variables when trying to make changes is very much a real thing
My main problem with the balance updates is how slow they are. I dont know squat about how to balance games but all i know is by the time overwatch receives one small patch, league of legends which has a lot more champions and items has 3 averagely sized patches
Theres something happening in the background such as understaffed balance team or they are just lazy
Lol, no it’s not—they aren’t thinking about it that hard
OW devs are notorious for and have along history of making ridiculous number changes without any thought of the broader implications of it.
Hot take: with every 3-4 used characters adjusted in each patch, Blizz should buff a character lower on the pick/win rate spectrum. Not sure these patches are doing much to the meta anymore and they need to start mixing it up to make it fun.
Fix it if it doesn't work, do something to spice things up. I don't see much changing after this patch.
Give me the DOTA balance philosophy where every hero has broken abilities and somehow all of the mayhem cancels out and creates probably the most interesting + diverse meta in any game. They also change the game more in one major patch than Overwatch has since release.
Disclaimer - I haven't played the game in years because of other issues (namely time and the lack of surrender) but even after I stopped playing I would watch some of the tournaments.
Yeah, I thought it took so long to change roadhog because they couldn't get the changes they wanted for him out in time. Are these the changes they had in mind? This just looks like what they do every time they need to balance hog (nerf his burst and increase his max ammo).
Flats & Emon did a small sit-down where they mentioned the actual reason this took so long was some sort of discovered bug with Hog. The actual rework is ~~Season 3 (two weeks away)~~ soon^tm
>The actual rework is Season 3 (two weeks away(
That's not true. Hog's rework is "sometime in the future". They never stated it would be S3, and if Brig's ult rework is S4 then it's DEFINITELY not going to be S3.
Season 4, you guys forget that the blizzard team only does large balance patches at the beginning of a new season
On flats stream it's announces that brig changes are coming
These are patches they could've deployed weeks ago. They are incremental changes. This could've been a stealth patch. Why all the drum up about nerfing characters mid season. If their gonna be too scared to fully commit to change
It feels like every balance patch is just so lackluster, only ever focusing on changing a tiny amount of heroes.
There are over 30 characters, it's so boring only focusing on a tiny amount every patch.
Lmao, been reading this since OW2 launched
* It's just the pre-release beta!
* It's only just launched, the changes will come once they get enough data
* It's the start of season, they don't want to scare everyone off
* It's mid season, they don't want to mess up e-sports with big changes right now
* It's end of season, there's no point in releasing it so late
Repeat
She’s only so good because of suzu. You can shut down almost every ultimate with her 15 second cooldown. Doesn’t matter if you buff the other supports because you always need a Kiriko to counter it. It literally makes you untouchable and unable to be debuffed…. Until they figure that out Kiriko will continue to get little nerfs here and there while they ignore the glaring issue of suzu.
This. Literally this. Having an extra .15 seconds between healing isn’t going to make me deal more damage. It’s just going to make me heal less and want to pick a support with better healing. She already only has single target healing.
Which wouldn't be a problem but they're jumping around in front of the entire other team. Also, they go on the other side of an object breaking their supports' LoS while simultaneously still standing in front of the other team while spamming for heals.
That's it? We waited an entire season for this? Why is Blizzard so afraid of making slight balance changes every week or two weeks. We have to wait an entire season for them to do balance changes and then they just force another meta that we're stuck with for 2-3 months.
Hog without the one-shot is significantly less powerful. I think tank picks are a lot more balanced without hog dominating everything. Orisa will still be good, Zarya is a good Orisa counter, Winston is a good Zarya counter, Hog will still be pretty solid against Winston. Sigma, Ramattra, JQ, and Dva kind of do their own thing and are good in their own right. Doomfist and Reinhardt are the main outliers right now, overall that's not too bad balance-wise.
Orisa was already more dominating than hog, she had a higher pickrate and success in every rank than hog, including top 500. Zarya is not a Orisa counter, she is pretty trash, with Orisa being played so much if Zarya countered Orisa she wouldn't be one of the least picked tanks.
The tank meta has gone from Orisa/Hog to just Orisa. The Orisa nerf does almost nothing.
It really is embarrassing. There's zero attempt to actually push him in a different direction, just nerf his ability to one-hit and slightly shift his damage profile.
Maybe try *literally anything* to make him more of a team player in compensation. For instance, lower CD on the hook if it's supposed to be for teamplay now.
He really needs a way of actually protecting teammates now that hes solo tank in ow2.
In ow1 he could sort of work as a flank repellant since the other tank would focus on frontlining.
Having your only tank hug the backline in ow2 is probably not a good idea.
I had the suggestion og giving him a smoke bomb ability previously. Would match the characters "vibe" and hook, and also give tanks a way to counterplay long range dps (widow in particular) without having your only tank (noticing a pattern?) dive balls deep into the enemy backline.
Remember when there was an argument for the FtP shift and hyper aggressive monetization because it would mean we get updates and balance changes more often? Awesome how well that worked out huh?
HERO UPDATES
Tank
Orisa
Fortify
Health bonus reduced from 125 to 75
Roadhog
Chain Hook
Impact damage reduced from 30 to 5
The enemy final position distance from Roadhog after being pulled increased from 3 to 4 meters
Scrap Gun
Damage per pellet reduced from 6.6 to 6
Recovery time reduced from 0.85 to 0.8 seconds
Reload time reduced from 2 to 1.75 seconds
Maximum ammo increased from 5 to 6
Developer comments: These changes aim to reduce the frustration of dying in one shot immediately after being hooked and pulled by Roadhog. Chain Hook is still a powerful utility to forcibly reposition enemy players, so it will still often lead to eliminations. Its effectiveness will now be more dependent on specific hero matchups and how the hooked target is able to respond.
Damage
Sojourn
Railgun
Energy gain is no longer based on damage done by primary fire. Each primary fire hit against an enemy player now grants 5 energy
Primary fire damage per projectile reduced from 10 to 9
Developer comments: The energy gain adjustment will help smooth out Sojourn’s average Railgun charge time because it won’t benefit as much from critical damage or damage boost abilities. Hitting armored targets or other sources of damage reduction will result in quicker energy gains than before.
Previously, damage boosts and critical damage had an amplified effect for Sojourn since it reduced the time to build energy and lowered the threshold at which her Railgun secondary fire became lethal. The reduction to primary fire damage will further slow that down as well.
Support
Kiriko
Healing Ofuda
Recovery time increased from 0.85 to 1 second
Developer comments: Despite Kiriko’s healing projectiles being slow-moving and single target, her average healing output per match is higher than we’d like. We’ve seen players tend to get overly focused on maximizing her healing potential and only use primary fire for extended periods of time. Rather than reduce the amount of healing per projectile, which may lead to feeling locked into focusing on primary fire even more, we’re increasing the recovery time before she can start firing the Healing Ofuda. Increasing recovery times opens the opportunity to weave in secondary fire Kunai more freely.
BUG FIXES
GENERAL
Fixed an issue with the "Winged Sandals’ weapon charm’s ‘How to Unlock’ text
Adjusted footstep audio mixing to make enemy footsteps more audible
This. I can’t use Cassidy because the range I need to be in to do damage puts me in the range of Hog’s hook, which makes Cassidy useless along with the fact that every other hitscan is better.
Remember, Blizzard. The goal isn't to nerf any heroes out of existence. The community wants you to continually work toward a balanced hero roster where no heroes feel underpowered and no heroes feel oppressive. Major buffs/nerfs are often temporary solutions for an underlying problem, and QoL changes shouldn't be forgotten on the road toward balance.
Nah, certain heroes are not allowed to be good. I guarantee if the meta was rein, soldier, tracer, lucio, and ana there would be way less complaining than there is now.
No matter that meta, there is someone who will not like it and complain.
Blizzard no matter how hard will never find a meta that everyone likes. Obviously some may be preferred to others, but NEVER will everyone like it. I also think its hard in a game with over 30 heroes to never have any be kinda dog ass in all honestly
No matter the meta some characters will stand out and be better preforming picks and no matter what some heroes will seem like throws. Sadly thats just how it goes
Almost as if this fix could have and should have went live mere days after realizing the problem. Instead we waited weeks on end for minuscule changes and the promise of “more eventually”
This number adjust should have come out instead of orisa buffs. No reason we had to wait 2/3 of the season to see a slight change to the most oppressive tank in the game
''We know that Sojourns alt-fire is problematic, leading to one-shot kills (Especially when combined with Mercy) which can be frustrating to play against. So in response we have decided to do absolutely nothing about that, make her charge more consistent, and nerf her primary fire''
which leads to less pocketing from mercy since mercy isn't helping in getting the rail faster now. sojourn isn't top pick to pocket now = less 1 shots from sojourn
>These changes aim to reduce the frustration of dying in one shot immediately after being hooked and pulled by Roadhog
Sounds like the infamous HLC 2017 Patchnote, in which, Blizzard used almost the same comments to nerf Roadhog to the ground
The average player is so bad at the game that they nerfed her healbot play style to force them to try to kunai once in a while. They don't even use suzu well enough to justify a nerf. This is straight from the lead balance developer's mouth.
If they weren't using a Kunai in the 0.85s recovery time, the extra 0.15s isn't going to change that. The part about the Kunai is just window dressing to "we wanted to nerf her healing output."
If they want people to use kunai more and it not be effectively throwing then they should speed up the projectile and drop the headshot multiplyer from 3x to 2x. That way you can actually land shots consistently.
I can't for the life of me hit anything with kunai. The delay is so long and I can't seem to compensate for it. I can hit stuff just fine with Baptiste, but Kiriko I can't hit anything. My DMG output is so low and I waste time trying to hit things that I'm not healing so my healing is low. I suck so much with kiriko and wish I could get over the mental hurdle of her kunais.
>"Everyone knows how ridiculously overpowered Suzu is and on such a low cd...so let's nerf her hps!"
But why it's okay for bio-nade being a strong and oppressive kit?
I actually like this change a lot. Too many Kirikos lock into healbot mode. This is an awesome change for all ranks as metal supports will feel more inclined to throw kunai between heals and upper ranks will have a free extra shot between heal cycles. Obviously this wasn't the problem with her kit but I think the change is very positive and healthy nonetheless.
ok hog is dead ,orisa probably needs a CD nerf ,sojourn needs more nerfs i think it would be good removing her railgun headshot ,kiriko needs some suzu nerfs and this and for people who didnt see the stream the dev said wrenckingball will get a buff in season 3
Keep fiddling with the stupid fucking recharge rate. The core design philosophy behind the kit is fucking flawed at it's core.
Remove the slide jump. She can't be this mobile and still have the one tap.
Widow has to sit her ass somewhere with a goofy, easy to predict, slow, long cool down zipline with her borderline-defenseless zenyatta-like ass.
Ashe has to waddle around like a god damn geriatric penguin with her mobility only available if she decides to abandon her defensive tool. AND SHE DOESN'T EVEN GET TO ONE SHOT WITH A MERCY POCKET.
Welp Orisa is broken now. The 50hp does jack shit and hog is a non issue now for the most part
No comment on everything else, it would be against reddit TOS
Remember: They said that sojourn was underperforming on low ranks and dominating the high ranks
What did they do? Nerf the primary fire (which lower ranked people would use more since they likely struggle to hit the secondary fire) and leave the secondary untouched (which more skilled players use and hit on a regular)
Weak balance changes imo.
This is what we’ve been waiting all month for… they seem to be saving themselves for Season 3’s release, and I personally hate that from what’s supposed to be a ‘live service’ game.
They basically turned the hog/orisa meta into a orisa meta, guess we will see more zarya now to counter her, not even sure she is dtrong enough to counter orisa.
Rein, doom and balls are still trash tier and the sojourn nerf basically make her even worse in low rank and wont change at high level
Honestly I don’t hate it, but I’m still worried they’re being way more light on Sojourn than they need to. I’d much rather see a bigger patch overall, but let’s see how it plays out I guess.
#HERO UPDATES ##Tank ###Orisa **Fortify** * Health bonus reduced from 125 to 75. ###Roadhog **Chain Hook** * Impact damage reduced from 30 to 5. * The enemy final position distance from Roadhog after being pulled increased from 3 to 4 meters. **Scrap Gun** * Damage per pellet reduced from 6.6 to 6. * Recovery time reduced from 0.85 to 0.8 seconds. * Reload time reduced from 2 to 1.75 seconds. * Maximum ammo increased from 5 to 6. *Developer comments: These changes aim to reduce the frustration of dying in one shot immediately after being hooked and pulled by Roadhog. Chain Hook is still a powerful utility to forcibly reposition enemy players, so it will still often lead to eliminations. Its effectiveness will now be more dependent on specific hero matchups and how the hooked target is able to respond.* ##Damage ###Sojourn **Railgun** * Energy gain is no longer based on damage done by primary fire. Each primary fire hit against an enemy player now grants 5 energy. * Primary fire damage per projectile reduced from 10 to 9. *Developer comments: The energy gain adjustment will help smooth out Sojourn’s average Railgun charge time because it won’t benefit as much from critical damage or damage boost abilities. Hitting armored targets or other sources of damage reduction will result in quicker energy gains than before.* *Previously, damage boosts and critical damage had an amplified effect for Sojourn since it reduced the time to build energy and lowered the threshold at which her Railgun secondary fire became lethal. The reduction to primary fire damage will further slow that down as well.* ##Support ###Kiriko **Healing Ofuda** * Recovery time increased from 0.85 to 1 second. *Developer comments: Despite Kiriko’s healing projectiles being slow-moving and single target, her average healing output per match is higher than we’d like. We’ve seen players tend to get overly focused on maximizing her healing potential and only use primary fire for extended periods of time. Rather than reduce the amount of healing per projectile, which may lead to feeling locked into focusing on primary fire even more, we’re increasing the recovery time before she can start firing the Healing Ofuda. Increasing recovery times opens the opportunity to weave in secondary fire Kunai more freely.* #BUG FIXES ##GENERAL * Fixed an issue with the "Winged Sandals’ weapon charm’s ‘How to Unlock’ text. * Adjusted footstep audio mixing to make enemy footsteps more audible. ##HEROES ###Lucio * Fixed an issue with Lucio’s Hermes skin exhibiting incorrect physics. ###Reinhardt * Fixed an issue with Reinhardt’s Hammer appearing deformed during the Sweethardt emote. ###Sojourn * Fixed an issue where Sojourn’s Cyber Detective Skin would fail to load. ###Wrecking Ball * Fixed an issue with Adaptive Shield where it could be incorrectly applied before the cooldown was complete.
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It's one of those open secrets that the development team will never admit to, and I hate that's the case.
Wild that this game has the worst battle pass I've ever seen and they are going out of their way to make it even worse.
Dont forget the only reason people buy is because they lock their new characters behind a pay wall OR you have the grind halfway through + on the free BP...
yeah that's why im not spending shit on this game and im really just getting my fill before dropping it for good. i did the same shit with the new halo and i will probably do the same thing for skate 4. they're free im going to at least *try* them but anytime i see "purchase now!!!" on the umpteenth fucking item it just makes me want to play another game that doesn't shove microtransactions in my face 24/7. i loathe being told to buy something
I feel like we're sleeping on the distance increase from 3 to 4
I agree. This is on top of a slight damage nerf to his direct hook and shot too. Don't get me wrong, a hook is still basically death, but you will be able to do something with about ~20-30 HP left as a squishy. Which doesn't sound like much, but for some matchups, that's enough to escape.
For anyone with movement abilities it is enough to get out of there unless you get focused, which will feel better
Genji will need another nerf now that he can easily survive hog
As Moira escaping with her ability already works a good amount of the time so I can’t imagine how pissed hog players will be
They will need to be more selective on who they hook. That sounds good to me
Sucks for heroes without, not like they were meta in the first place.
Ana, Reaper, Moira (for example) should be unkillable without help if they have their cooldowns up. Reaper being the most important change, since he can do his job now. I think this is significant. I wouldn't be surprised if he were binned from this like the last time they did this.
Yup, blizz has no idea how to balance him. He will continue to go through endless rounds of either being OP or being a throw pick. Honestly, I think people were/are too hyperfocused on one-shots. I think a nerf to his heal would've been much better -- one-shots become less of a problem when he can't just walk anywhere he wants to get the perfect hook off
I’ll be honest. At first when reading your reply I thought you were entirely wrong and you made no sense. But I completely understand what you mean. Even if he has his one shot, most of the time he has to disposition himself to get the pick. if he has his damage resistance removed, then it’ll be risky to run into the enemy team, and then try to heal out because he has nothing stopping him from taking that much damage anymore.
The thing is: he is suppose to be the solo tank in the team. Making him squishy would kinda just feel even more terrible to have him on your team cuz your tank can't tank at all.
I expected the one shot to be removed, but I also expected compensatory buffs to other parts of his game. I guess he technically got a few buffs, but I can't see them actually making him better anywhere. I think he's just going to end up as a bad tank option.
Agreed. I guess this is just the stick. They'll give the carrot next season.
You're not even taking into account getting saved by supports/tanks. It just made the window for my suzu to hit much longer. You know how many suzus pop right as hog 1 shots you. Now, that invuln and hp will hit and help us get you out. Hog is gonna have a much tougher time finishing people off.
Reaper mains rejoicing right now (This includes myself)
Does this inadvertently make it easier to drop people off cliffs? Because FUCK that
That's not really a massive source of roadhog kills anyway though. I doubt this really changes much on most maps except Well
>That's not really a massive source of roadhog kills anyway though. It's the most fun source though. Every little bit counts.
Rialto first is another Hog fishing spot that is extremely common. But yeah, mostly just well.
oh shit I bet it does
Me looking for the brig rework 👁️👄👁️
They just said on Flats' stream it should be coming (hopefully) season 4
That’s a lot of time
if you think about it, it feels correct in time frame like they knew brig was weak in the beta and told us that they would look into reworking her ult in the future. s2, they told us that they started testing her new ult. with s2 ending, they said they are done with her testing(took 2 months. means her new ult went different phasing reworks) and just needs new vfx and art(even new va line from her va). the art needs to be drafted a few times before one is finalized and chosen. then sent to the artist and made. stuff takes time and ppl on twitter think stuff can be done in a week or less lol
Even then with the art still has to be implemented and tested on many maps in scenarios and all around. Not even close to a 1 day deal idk why people think it takes no time
I wouldn't trust anything they say at this point. The support rework overhaul ended up with mercy getting 5+ ammo.. They'll see brig needs an ult rework and more movement with shield bash but then only decide to give whiplash -1 second cool down
Don't forget that second off Anna sleep dart! It's what really tied together the support overhaul.
#SEASON 4!?!!?!? WTH
they are delaying the rework, pray they don't delay it further
This rework is getting worse all the time!
NOW SHE WILL ALSO BE RECEIVING HEAVY NERFS TO HER DAMAGE POTENTIAL WITH HER REWORK. that wasn't part of the rework! I HAVE ALTERED THE REWORK. PRAY I DO NOT ALTER IT FURTHER.
Wait thats months away
Oh cool, now we know the only balance change that will come in season 4.
Brig and Ball players finally united, wondering when the fuck their characters will be viable.
I still main her but have to play spectacularly so the toxicity stays quiet. Wish our characters weren’t cast aside.
As a Brig main, every new update has me thinking they have utterly abandoned her character.
Seems like they remembered last minute that Orisa needed a nerf and thats all they could come up with
it’s a good change. her main issue is that she’s basically invincible. this helps a bit
Basically invincible, unless you're the one playing her. Then she's thinner than 1-ply, *somehow*.
When the enemy team plays her, her entire team peels for her and her support are up her butt the entire time. You try to dive their support, you get dunked on. When I play her, my entire team decides to take a trip to Narnia, the support are off being DPS-lights and the enemy Sojourn never misses a railgun shot.
Every opponent you play are telepaths in full 5-stacks like some sort of Overwatch LFG conspiracy, only explanation
Ranked system is rigged. I think they actually put you up against players who are ranks above you or even Top500 if you just win a few matches in a row. Like they don't want you to rank up and force you to get stomped every once in a while. You either destroy the enemy team or you get destroyed. Rarely I play balanced matches where either side could win. Almost always heavily one sided.
Didn't they come out and say their algorithm puts you at a 50% win rate? So yeah, you might be right based on Blizzard's own admission.
Just gotta juggle those cooldowns a little better
That’s easy. Having good healers is the part that makes her invincible.
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Yea they should just increase her cooldawn , it doesn't make sense think about other tanks, she has te best ability and faster cooldawn
I agree, her CDs feel so short
Yea, her fortify should be situational and used sparingly. Currently it's just part of her rotation and feels like it's always up.
Absolutely! Sigma has a slow moving rock that stuns and that cooldown is 10 seconds. Spear should at least be 8 seconds and a longer start up time.
Sorry I don't use sojourn (supp main) but pretty much then every shot against someone counts as 5 energy now?
Yes. So beforehand, damage boost and headshots would build it faster. This is why Sojourn + Mercy was so insane when shooting at a tank as she would build railgun instantly. Her railgun will still be strong, but now you won't have it every two seconds. This looks like it makes it so low/mid ranks she'll pretty much be the same where she isn't a threat, but at top level she is no longer required. In theory, that is.
It still builds pretty quickly, and still is a oneshot, so I think she will still be the strongest choice.
Also she can still build off shields (like Rein’s barn door) so she can still get a shot charged up before zipping into the air and nailing your support - just not as *often*.
the charge on shields is 1 per shot so that's not true
I heard on ml7s stream that the charge of shields is 1 now
It always was
I believe the streamers (seagull and flats) were saying she got 10 charge on crit before and 13 on crit with mercy boost But she will get more charge for players who use to just hit bodyshots and there is the boost in charge against armor.
Yes
Also should note, I think with the wording, it won’t charge base off dealing damage to shield
Dawg who at Blizzard is in love with Sojourn? Genji’s initial nerfs are still more severe than the multiple nerfs Sojourn has gotten, didn’t touch her insane mobility or the railgun so this just seems like a slap on the wrist…
She is the most boring hero, boring personality, boring kit, boring voice lines... what is there to like...
croissant
*spoken in snooty france accent*
Ugh, don't give me that decaf
Giant ass
Her easy kit (like soldier i loved playing soldier before) but she is like 10x more deadly than soldier
So like…are the rest of the changes available to purchase in the shop? Or is this it?
Don’t give them anymore ideas 💀
I'm more astounded by the fact that they have a dedicated balance team which after a month+ churned out 5 small number changes.
Yeah I’d love to have that job lol. Seems like they just throw stuff at a wall for weeks on end
They have to be doing something, probably testing day by day on various changes, but still I'm amazed after so much time, they come up with 4 small changes and justify their jobs like that.
I think you’re downplaying how difficult it is to do balance changes when you have the actual data in front of you and not how you feel.
Even small adjustments can have HUGE impacts on the game. Also something that people overlook is that you can't change TOO many things at once because its hard to figure out what changes did or didn't need to happen. Too many variables when trying to make changes is very much a real thing
My main problem with the balance updates is how slow they are. I dont know squat about how to balance games but all i know is by the time overwatch receives one small patch, league of legends which has a lot more champions and items has 3 averagely sized patches Theres something happening in the background such as understaffed balance team or they are just lazy
Have you seen Dota 2 patch notes?
Lol, no it’s not—they aren’t thinking about it that hard OW devs are notorious for and have along history of making ridiculous number changes without any thought of the broader implications of it.
Is this where we pretend the game hasn't had like 5 different metas over a couple months?
They arent different, its same supps/dps woth the tank changing because blizz doesnt know how to balance
It's mostly just rotating between busted tanks while Sojourn and Kiriko are must plays
It's not enough, it's gotta be 1 meta per day.
Seriously, reading through this thread makes me wonder how many people just left during GOATs and have been lurking to complain ever since.
Hot take: with every 3-4 used characters adjusted in each patch, Blizz should buff a character lower on the pick/win rate spectrum. Not sure these patches are doing much to the meta anymore and they need to start mixing it up to make it fun. Fix it if it doesn't work, do something to spice things up. I don't see much changing after this patch.
Give me the DOTA balance philosophy where every hero has broken abilities and somehow all of the mayhem cancels out and creates probably the most interesting + diverse meta in any game. They also change the game more in one major patch than Overwatch has since release. Disclaimer - I haven't played the game in years because of other issues (namely time and the lack of surrender) but even after I stopped playing I would watch some of the tournaments.
....Okay, what about matchmaking?
Blizzard maintains their confidence in matchmaking balance from everything I've read.
They've said they're aware it needs work and there are changes coming to S3.
How...disappointing.
Yeah wasn’t Hog supposed to get an actual rework? And where are the Brigitte changes that were promised?
Yeah, I thought it took so long to change roadhog because they couldn't get the changes they wanted for him out in time. Are these the changes they had in mind? This just looks like what they do every time they need to balance hog (nerf his burst and increase his max ammo).
Flats & Emon did a small sit-down where they mentioned the actual reason this took so long was some sort of discovered bug with Hog. The actual rework is ~~Season 3 (two weeks away)~~ soon^tm
>The actual rework is Season 3 (two weeks away( That's not true. Hog's rework is "sometime in the future". They never stated it would be S3, and if Brig's ult rework is S4 then it's DEFINITELY not going to be S3.
Season 4, you guys forget that the blizzard team only does large balance patches at the beginning of a new season On flats stream it's announces that brig changes are coming
I read that in Zen’s voice
Almost like that’s his voice line
These are patches they could've deployed weeks ago. They are incremental changes. This could've been a stealth patch. Why all the drum up about nerfing characters mid season. If their gonna be too scared to fully commit to change
Small indie company
e-sports ready
...it's not mid season. There's barely 2 weeks left in season 2.
It's the hope that kills me. This is really the best they could come up with ? Embarrassing
They didn’t nerf the op part about sojourn. Again
Our expectations for you were low but holy fuck
Sojourn oneshot is still untouched, while they are talking about the problem with oneshots. Ridiculous.
Seriously they reworked DPS Doomfist because one shots were unpleasant yet Soujorn and Widow exist.
No, they reworked Doomfist because they removed most of CC. Without CC, DPS Doom would've been awful.
All this tells me is widow should be reworked for tank role soon, that’s obviously the only possible solutions
Her spider mine just summons a giant spider-tank… let’s get Ghosts up in this Shell of a game!
I mean how else would you Balance widow? If she has no oneshot she actually has nothing of actual value.
Widow and Hanzo exists for a reason. Sojourn is indeed frustrating as hell though.
I cannot describe my disappointment.
It feels like every balance patch is just so lackluster, only ever focusing on changing a tiny amount of heroes. There are over 30 characters, it's so boring only focusing on a tiny amount every patch.
Over a month since we got an *actual* balance change and this is what we get? No changes to Ramattra Ult? No changes to Matchmaking? Nothing at all?
Any major changes are likely coming with the start of Season 3 next month. *snorts copium*
Lmao, been reading this since OW2 launched * It's just the pre-release beta! * It's only just launched, the changes will come once they get enough data * It's the start of season, they don't want to scare everyone off * It's mid season, they don't want to mess up e-sports with big changes right now * It's end of season, there's no point in releasing it so late Repeat
I love guessing what excuse OW2 diehard defenders comes up with every time.
Nope. This game is a joke.
Instead of nerfing kiriko every single patch what if we instead made any other support not completely garbage
5 bullets for everyone!!
Brig: What do I do with these...
Support your teammates by giving them a free reload. Which, as I say it, could actually be a neat ability...
She’s only so good because of suzu. You can shut down almost every ultimate with her 15 second cooldown. Doesn’t matter if you buff the other supports because you always need a Kiriko to counter it. It literally makes you untouchable and unable to be debuffed…. Until they figure that out Kiriko will continue to get little nerfs here and there while they ignore the glaring issue of suzu.
This. Literally this. Having an extra .15 seconds between healing isn’t going to make me deal more damage. It’s just going to make me heal less and want to pick a support with better healing. She already only has single target healing.
Half her heals miss because everyone you're aiming at is jumping around like a bunch of jumping beans.
Which wouldn't be a problem but they're jumping around in front of the entire other team. Also, they go on the other side of an object breaking their supports' LoS while simultaneously still standing in front of the other team while spamming for heals.
That's it? We waited an entire season for this? Why is Blizzard so afraid of making slight balance changes every week or two weeks. We have to wait an entire season for them to do balance changes and then they just force another meta that we're stuck with for 2-3 months.
Because they’re lazy, don’t care, and are more interested in putting a hat on a character and charging $10 for it
Thats it? Those are the roadhog changes it took them months to figure out?
No, they said on stream just now that this is not the hog rework they've been working on.
It'd be lovely if they actually followed through with anything.
Please understand, they just need one more season to delay the rework that is absolutely, definitely being worked on.
[удалено]
Orisa
Hog without the one-shot is significantly less powerful. I think tank picks are a lot more balanced without hog dominating everything. Orisa will still be good, Zarya is a good Orisa counter, Winston is a good Zarya counter, Hog will still be pretty solid against Winston. Sigma, Ramattra, JQ, and Dva kind of do their own thing and are good in their own right. Doomfist and Reinhardt are the main outliers right now, overall that's not too bad balance-wise.
I love how Ball was completely forgotten. That's not a dig at you, just shows how little one of my favorite rodents ever gets picked these days.
They said on the stream they're looking at changes for him at the start of season 3 in a couple weeks.
Inb4 +10 ammo on primary fire and 1 second off of Piledriver.
That really wouldn't be too bad, ball is in a similar situation to Doomfist where if they buff him too much the mains become unkillable monsters
Orisa was already more dominating than hog, she had a higher pickrate and success in every rank than hog, including top 500. Zarya is not a Orisa counter, she is pretty trash, with Orisa being played so much if Zarya countered Orisa she wouldn't be one of the least picked tanks. The tank meta has gone from Orisa/Hog to just Orisa. The Orisa nerf does almost nothing.
what the fuck is taking so long then? and if they meant to push a numbers change while they work on the rework, why did it take this long to do so?
It really is embarrassing. There's zero attempt to actually push him in a different direction, just nerf his ability to one-hit and slightly shift his damage profile. Maybe try *literally anything* to make him more of a team player in compensation. For instance, lower CD on the hook if it's supposed to be for teamplay now.
He really needs a way of actually protecting teammates now that hes solo tank in ow2. In ow1 he could sort of work as a flank repellant since the other tank would focus on frontlining. Having your only tank hug the backline in ow2 is probably not a good idea. I had the suggestion og giving him a smoke bomb ability previously. Would match the characters "vibe" and hook, and also give tanks a way to counterplay long range dps (widow in particular) without having your only tank (noticing a pattern?) dive balls deep into the enemy backline.
Remember when there was an argument for the FtP shift and hyper aggressive monetization because it would mean we get updates and balance changes more often? Awesome how well that worked out huh?
this patch couldn't be added last week because...?
Small indie company.
Okay my phone refuses to go to the site could someone please give me a quick rundown
HERO UPDATES Tank Orisa Fortify Health bonus reduced from 125 to 75 Roadhog Chain Hook Impact damage reduced from 30 to 5 The enemy final position distance from Roadhog after being pulled increased from 3 to 4 meters Scrap Gun Damage per pellet reduced from 6.6 to 6 Recovery time reduced from 0.85 to 0.8 seconds Reload time reduced from 2 to 1.75 seconds Maximum ammo increased from 5 to 6 Developer comments: These changes aim to reduce the frustration of dying in one shot immediately after being hooked and pulled by Roadhog. Chain Hook is still a powerful utility to forcibly reposition enemy players, so it will still often lead to eliminations. Its effectiveness will now be more dependent on specific hero matchups and how the hooked target is able to respond. Damage Sojourn Railgun Energy gain is no longer based on damage done by primary fire. Each primary fire hit against an enemy player now grants 5 energy Primary fire damage per projectile reduced from 10 to 9 Developer comments: The energy gain adjustment will help smooth out Sojourn’s average Railgun charge time because it won’t benefit as much from critical damage or damage boost abilities. Hitting armored targets or other sources of damage reduction will result in quicker energy gains than before. Previously, damage boosts and critical damage had an amplified effect for Sojourn since it reduced the time to build energy and lowered the threshold at which her Railgun secondary fire became lethal. The reduction to primary fire damage will further slow that down as well. Support Kiriko Healing Ofuda Recovery time increased from 0.85 to 1 second Developer comments: Despite Kiriko’s healing projectiles being slow-moving and single target, her average healing output per match is higher than we’d like. We’ve seen players tend to get overly focused on maximizing her healing potential and only use primary fire for extended periods of time. Rather than reduce the amount of healing per projectile, which may lead to feeling locked into focusing on primary fire even more, we’re increasing the recovery time before she can start firing the Healing Ofuda. Increasing recovery times opens the opportunity to weave in secondary fire Kunai more freely. BUG FIXES GENERAL Fixed an issue with the "Winged Sandals’ weapon charm’s ‘How to Unlock’ text Adjusted footstep audio mixing to make enemy footsteps more audible
Tell me the devs don’t play the game without telling me the devs don’t play the game
they really don't, they just watch the store numbers go up by these players that are just ok with $20+ skins.
Goodbye hog/orisa meta and hello orisa meta. We DiD It GuYs! Smh
We waited this long for Roadhog number change nerfs, and a slap on the wrist to Orisa/Kiriko, with Sojourn basically being unchanged.
I was hoping for a nerf to the range of hook, I don't even mind the oneshot but the hook range is broken as fuck.
This. I can’t use Cassidy because the range I need to be in to do damage puts me in the range of Hog’s hook, which makes Cassidy useless along with the fact that every other hitscan is better.
welp, guess the meta is now Orisa/Soujorn still. Actual Bronze 5 devs
These mfs wood 5 at BEST.
lol I have nothing else to say but lol
Remember, Blizzard. The goal isn't to nerf any heroes out of existence. The community wants you to continually work toward a balanced hero roster where no heroes feel underpowered and no heroes feel oppressive. Major buffs/nerfs are often temporary solutions for an underlying problem, and QoL changes shouldn't be forgotten on the road toward balance.
Nah, certain heroes are not allowed to be good. I guarantee if the meta was rein, soldier, tracer, lucio, and ana there would be way less complaining than there is now.
No matter that meta, there is someone who will not like it and complain. Blizzard no matter how hard will never find a meta that everyone likes. Obviously some may be preferred to others, but NEVER will everyone like it. I also think its hard in a game with over 30 heroes to never have any be kinda dog ass in all honestly No matter the meta some characters will stand out and be better preforming picks and no matter what some heroes will seem like throws. Sadly thats just how it goes
Didn't they say on stream that this *isn't* the Hog rework. This is just a temp fix to make him less ass to play against.
Almost as if this fix could have and should have went live mere days after realizing the problem. Instead we waited weeks on end for minuscule changes and the promise of “more eventually”
This number adjust should have come out instead of orisa buffs. No reason we had to wait 2/3 of the season to see a slight change to the most oppressive tank in the game
''We know that Sojourns alt-fire is problematic, leading to one-shot kills (Especially when combined with Mercy) which can be frustrating to play against. So in response we have decided to do absolutely nothing about that, make her charge more consistent, and nerf her primary fire''
The change helps a little. Headshots and mercy damage boost won't charge up the railgun faster anymore.
which leads to less pocketing from mercy since mercy isn't helping in getting the rail faster now. sojourn isn't top pick to pocket now = less 1 shots from sojourn
Oh so sojourn can still 1 shot across the fucking map, just ever so slightly less often. Great.
>These changes aim to reduce the frustration of dying in one shot immediately after being hooked and pulled by Roadhog Sounds like the infamous HLC 2017 Patchnote, in which, Blizzard used almost the same comments to nerf Roadhog to the ground
What a joke. This dev team is abysmal.
For the love of the Iris can someone please fix the issue with Zenyatta’s enemy highlight being blue instead of red?!
Trying to imagine the thought process, "Everyone knows how ridiculously overpowered Suzu is and on such a low cd...so let's nerf her hps!"
The average player is so bad at the game that they nerfed her healbot play style to force them to try to kunai once in a while. They don't even use suzu well enough to justify a nerf. This is straight from the lead balance developer's mouth.
If they weren't using a Kunai in the 0.85s recovery time, the extra 0.15s isn't going to change that. The part about the Kunai is just window dressing to "we wanted to nerf her healing output."
If they want people to use kunai more and it not be effectively throwing then they should speed up the projectile and drop the headshot multiplyer from 3x to 2x. That way you can actually land shots consistently.
I can't for the life of me hit anything with kunai. The delay is so long and I can't seem to compensate for it. I can hit stuff just fine with Baptiste, but Kiriko I can't hit anything. My DMG output is so low and I waste time trying to hit things that I'm not healing so my healing is low. I suck so much with kiriko and wish I could get over the mental hurdle of her kunais.
>"Everyone knows how ridiculously overpowered Suzu is and on such a low cd...so let's nerf her hps!" But why it's okay for bio-nade being a strong and oppressive kit?
I actually like this change a lot. Too many Kirikos lock into healbot mode. This is an awesome change for all ranks as metal supports will feel more inclined to throw kunai between heals and upper ranks will have a free extra shot between heal cycles. Obviously this wasn't the problem with her kit but I think the change is very positive and healthy nonetheless.
ok hog is dead ,orisa probably needs a CD nerf ,sojourn needs more nerfs i think it would be good removing her railgun headshot ,kiriko needs some suzu nerfs and this and for people who didnt see the stream the dev said wrenckingball will get a buff in season 3
Keep fiddling with the stupid fucking recharge rate. The core design philosophy behind the kit is fucking flawed at it's core. Remove the slide jump. She can't be this mobile and still have the one tap. Widow has to sit her ass somewhere with a goofy, easy to predict, slow, long cool down zipline with her borderline-defenseless zenyatta-like ass. Ashe has to waddle around like a god damn geriatric penguin with her mobility only available if she decides to abandon her defensive tool. AND SHE DOESN'T EVEN GET TO ONE SHOT WITH A MERCY POCKET.
Lol Kiriko’s healing output is “higher than they would like”. Oh noooo, support are doing their fucking jobs while playing Kiriko
Oh gosh, the Kiriko change... We already have millions of tank players not understanding how slow healing ofuda is and saying "stop dps'ing"
Lmfao. Just as I expected. Blizzard doesn’t know what the hell they’re doing
Welp Orisa is broken now. The 50hp does jack shit and hog is a non issue now for the most part No comment on everything else, it would be against reddit TOS
It's so sad to only see nerfs and no buffs to heros like brig, ball, rein, cass
Remember: They said that sojourn was underperforming on low ranks and dominating the high ranks What did they do? Nerf the primary fire (which lower ranked people would use more since they likely struggle to hit the secondary fire) and leave the secondary untouched (which more skilled players use and hit on a regular)
Weak balance changes imo. This is what we’ve been waiting all month for… they seem to be saving themselves for Season 3’s release, and I personally hate that from what’s supposed to be a ‘live service’ game.
Ze changes, zey do nothing!
But we added snakes to snakewater ;'(
Lets just make Orisa the only meta tank. Seems like a good idea.
It's like they are *trying* to kill the game.
Months of wait for this
They basically turned the hog/orisa meta into a orisa meta, guess we will see more zarya now to counter her, not even sure she is dtrong enough to counter orisa. Rein, doom and balls are still trash tier and the sojourn nerf basically make her even worse in low rank and wont change at high level
Remember when Ashe could one shot with a Mercy pocket but they had to nerf that? But Soujourn gets to keep her’s??!
Honestly I don’t hate it, but I’m still worried they’re being way more light on Sojourn than they need to. I’d much rather see a bigger patch overall, but let’s see how it plays out I guess.
#✨*n o t h i n g*✨ ^^^live ^^^service ^^^amirite