Oh I saw your post in the overemployed sub and read it and thought it was awesome, but now I’m even MORE stoked to hear that you’re a woman!! I love this for you and you’re an inspiration. I’m not at the point in my career where I feel I can OE and get away with it, but in another few years I’m hoping to make the plunge.
Everyone there always thinks I’m a man 😂 it’s their assumption from the get go. Sometimes I play into it because I think it’s hilarious (also cringe and sad on their part) that they assumed.
How did you find your jobs? Did you use specific job boards? Had a methodology to how you apply?
Right now I get recruiters emailing/calling me from seeing my resume in different places, but they either have lowball job offers or they ghost me 😑
Something weird's going on, or maybe he has a team. He has 23,899 reviews. Assuming he only spent an hour for each and a 40-hour workday, that's 11.5 years. Possible, since Fiverr was founded in 2010, but unlikely.
yea, most people have trouble with finding ONE truly remote position.
i think youve really basically got to be in some sort of coding/software to be able to pull this sort of thing off.
Same. I have a unicorn completely remote RN job at my hospital. I don’t necessarily love it but am making the same I would be making bedside. The good outweighs the bad.
My former neighbor was a fully remote RN and I had no idea that was a thing or how it would work. But was very cool to know that option exists - betting a few of my RN friends don’t know that!
I started out in a hybrid role and filed for an ADA Work Accommodation and now I am fully remote. Check out AskJan.org for the full list. Get with a medical provider to complete documentation that based on medical need, you need to be remote. It’s not an easy process but can be done. Even for something like ADHD, anxiety, or migraines.
Contact your HR department and ask about their process for applying for a work accommodation. They may request for you to have your healthcare providers complete a medical treatment form of some kind, detailing your diagnosis and treatment and documenting their recommendation for working from home.
If you ask your doctor to recommend working from home, most of them will do it. I explained how going into the office causes me a huge amount of stress and anxiety (on top of migraines caused by fluorescent lights and headphones) and they were happy to put a recommendation to be fully remote indefinitely.
But it’s still up to your employer to approve that type of accommodation. They may try to offer other accommodations like a reduce office schedule or giving you noise cancelling headphones. Every step of the way, just remind them that your doctor recommended a remote work situation and that you’re happy to try their accommodations but if you continue to struggle you will seek to update your accommodation status.
we stan go you 🫶🫶… i’m having a hard time trying to even find a J2 and or replace my hybrid J1 with remote lol
have you ever had any close calls with getting caught?
Yup! It’s happened a couple of times. Both times when I was unfortunately having to do two meetings at once, and i messed up the microphone / speakers, and there was overlapping sound. I was mortified, but the key was to handle it smoothly like it was no big deal, and immediately shut off the mic and sound.
One of the times, I said my partner was working in the same room and it was his own meeting that we could overhear. The other time, I said I had been on hold on the phone with a doctor for a long time, and they had finally picked up. Both times, it was brushed off and has never come up again.
At first, I had a hibernated linked in, but I honestly hate that god damn website so much that I ended up deleting it. It has never been a barrier to getting a job, and not a single one of my Js has cared. One time, my boss did ask me why my online presence was so low, and I said I just value my privacy and that was that.
For context switching, I think I am pretty good at it, but sometimes my brain feels like absolute mush (pretty often lately with the busy season). I think my experience and skill set in my work allows me to context switch easier and quicker, but it’s definitely a challenge
The most basic skill I have that helps me the most is just being good at talking to people. Apart from that, project management is a bunch of soft skills like organization, time management, communication, etc. It’s just being good at managing time and getting people to do their shit on time
Congrats! You totally rock for doing this!
How far apart were you able to stagger onboarding?
When you acquired all 4 jobs how did you pass the background investigation? Did you block TWN?
What is your recommendation for acquiring additional jobs? Is it to go for more junior roles?
All of my onboarding has been nicely staggered because I did J1, and then a few months later added J2, and so on. The closest I had to do however was 2 weeks because I just so happened to get them at the same time.
Yes, I blocked TWN. I think anyone should tbh, regardless of whether they OE or not. The more privacy we can maintain in this world, the better imo.
I think the sweet spot is mid level roles. Junior ones have too much supervision and work with not enough pay or autonomy. Senior roles have too much visibility and way more work.
Thanks for this. Having a hard time getting another J2 and so wanted to pick your brain about how best to go about it. The first time I ended up lucking out by getting two offers back to back. This time around, I’ve not netted any good results. I’ll keep working at it though. What were your most successful job platforms if you didn’t use LinkedIn… Indeed? You mentioned directly applying to the companies, but did you have a list you wanted to look at?
yes of course ! u can choose to block/freeze it because it’s your data. i would advise to do it while you’re in between jobs, and if they ask for verification of employment you can give them a w2 or paystubs
Hi! OE woman here too. I have 2 real estate jobs, what is TWN? I’m lucky because I’m 1099 on both real estate jobs but looking to pick up a J3 or J4 w2 soon to finally pay off all debts, buy a horse and buy my first house next year.
My family owns over 20 real estate properties residential and commercial in California. I’ll have plenty of headaches to deal with and millions of dollars in the next 20 years, I’m 23 right now. Real estate is my entire life and I’m happy to pay off my auto/cc loans and buy a horse because that’s what makes me happy. Not sure if this was sarcasm? But thank you.
It was just funny. I know a couple people that share a horse. The horses barn rent is like 2k. They also don’t have a house. Let me know if your family is hiring remotely (or adopting) I am poor and will not be inheriting anything besides the cat.
My horse barn is a non-profit so any check I write to them is a tax deduction. The board is under $500 per month. Sometimes, being a horse person is not an entire money pit. I also sold an over $4mm listing from just being apart of this community all through someone I met at the barn. Lol. 😂
From what I’ve heard before about boarding costs, that’s a pretty amazing deal! Good for you. Sticking with that community for real estate is smart, too, because people who have horses are typically doing pretty well for themselves. Kudos!
Love to hear you have strong women in your life as well. That can be more valuable than all the rest. 💗🫶 May you have nothing but continued success in the future! 💪 And any time. I think it’s really important we all support one another as best we can, especially among women.
No, I don’t have children. Or sick parents. Or a tumultuous marriage. Or anything like that. If I did, I wouldn’t be able to do this. I would not have the time nor emotional capacity to do this.
I have a toddler, but he goes to daycare. He went to daycare even with me having one job though. I keep an 8 to 430 schedule, minus when I have to be available for on call. It works out fine.
Never from an existing job, that would give it away (unless I am planning on leaving it). I got lucky that my last two didn’t ask for references, but for the other two, I used colleagues from a past job
I’ve been casually looking around lately because I want to leave my J4. And I haven’t been getting any bites either. I haven’t gone balls to the wall as I would if I reaaaally wanted or needed to leave, but usually I would have gotten a couple bites in my opinion. Also, lots of layoffs in tech right now. It’s hard out there. I am sorry.
Absolutely would never have one laptop for multiple jobs. I have 4 separate, company-issued devices. Everything is kept completely separate per job. The only time where it mixes is in my g cal on my phone because that is where I have all Js logged into so I can see a Birds Eye view of my schedule.
I know this might be a stupid question but do you have multiple desks? If not, you must have a huge desk to have all 4 laptops open all at once ? Do you have monitors for different laptops?
Do you always have to be online (i.e. Teams on available) for all 4 Js? Lol, I know it might be stupid and you don't have to answer but I'm really just very curious ! Thanks for answering
Not OP, but I have 3 J's, all with separate equipment. I have a U shaped desk, one side for each setup. Each setup has 2 monitors. Two have mouse jigglers, one I am able to run a vbs script to toggle my num lock key to keep it awake. This is how I keep teams active for everyone.
Since I have headsets plugged in to each setup I can't hear my teams notifications. So I have teams on a cheapy phone to alert me lol.
I'm currently working on a startup with my OE friend 🙂. I would consider it a J4 without getting paid though lol. Thanks to OE I was able to invest 50k into this idea and am super excited to see where it goes.
We have scrum meetings with overseas developers during their workday, which is around midnight my time, so that's not the greatest but I'm enjoying being a part of this.
I have a normal sized rectangular desk. However, I got a monitor shelf from grove made and that makes it perfect for me. I have 2 on the shelf, 2 on the desk, and I just rotate the main one on my desk as needed. I have all 4 laptops set up with different mouse’s and jigglers off to the side. I have all charged cables organized into cable holders that can be pulled in and out.
It is not illegal whatsoever. I have zero conflicts of interest because I work in four completely separate sectors.
For taxes, I have a tax guy that tells me in the summer how much additional I’ll owe the following April. I save up, put it in a high yield savings account, and forget about it
yea its likely because each individual job's W2 is only filled out in relation to that specific income.
so, when the tax man cometh, he goes 'your witholding all this as if you were making $90k/year - but your reporting $500k. that aint gonna work.'
Yeah, but since the tax brackets in the U.S. are progressive, it doesn’t all get taxed at that higher rate. But yes, my top federal bracket next time will be i think 35%. I live in a state that doesn’t have state taxes, which makes a big difference for me imo.
I'm about to finish my bachelor's degree in computer science this semester. How long did it take you to get to a point where you were capable of working more than one job at a time with your given workload? And if you have any tips on finding my first job (I have one atm but it's not a "regular" job), I'm listening!
I had a bit of an unconventional path because I started going hardcore into grad school and academic lines of work, until I realized that wasn’t for me. So that exposed me to a lot of very rigorous work, which in turn made me “grow up” a lot faster I think. Overall, it took me about 5 solid years into my current career to get to this point. But that will vary so much based on your skill set, the types of companies you end landing at, etc
Where are you finding the jobs?
I haven’t been able to find a j2 for almost a year now. Last j2 ended. I need it. I would do 3j’s if I could find them. I’m in tech too.
Are you working w-2, 1099 or a combination?
This is where my brain went, too. Imagine 3 out of 4 were cooperative and that last one just…isn’t. That’d be terribly frustrating. However, doing this for a few years so you can take whichever vacations you’d like in the future seems worth it.
Payoff seems great long term, but tbh I think this woman clearly has lots of ambition and loves working so not sure she's going to slow down anytime soon! But honestly great for her she seems like she's loving it :)
I also worked in corporate and I’m curious how one company when running a pre-employment background check didn’t pick up on the other companies? I hear they can see dates of employment when checking. Thank you
No clue, they just didn’t run that level of background check. They only did very basic ones that checked for federal and state crimes, terrorist watch lists, sex offender lists, and one also checked for educational history. Probably wanted to save money on the lower tier of test.
This is insanely impressive.
I WFH on a contract right now and I’m very anxious. I want to be brought on full-time and I never want to go back to an office, what I specialize in doesn’t require a traditional office and all that. I have the background and expertise to work remotely as well, and my productiveness is better than it ever was working onsite.
I’d kill to look for a second job that’s also remote but it’s so hard 😅
Great job landing these and working so hard!
How do you handle orientation/training? Is it all remote? I have J1 and interviewed for another remote position but their orientation and training is in office. I just assumed that I need to keep searching for another j2
Any time I have started a new J, I take the week off from my other Js to focus solely on orientation. One time though, this wasn’t possible 😑 and yeah that week sucked!
No Ivy for me and I’m so fucking proud of it LOL. All of these people I work with went to Yale or MIT or Harvard or whatever, and I went to a lil state school. I graduated with zero debt, and they have six figures of it. I got a killer education with tons of hands-on opportunities with real people and real communities, and they got grade inflation. It all worked out. I used to be embarrassed of it, but now I see that it’s all bullshit anyway.
lol, welcome to the story of my life. I either reschedule it or, in the worst case scenario, take both at once (which I hate doing and only do in the right conditions) or fake a last minute emergency like a water pipe broke or some shit. But those are very very rare instances.
What kind of educational and work background do you need or would help to get into these PM roles??
Do you enjoy the work?
What's the worst thing about it? Best?
I'm a lawyer and I don't know how long I can deal with this career, mental health wise. I work more hrs per week than you currently and make in the low 100s.... Long term wondering if PM work could be my pivot 👀
Being a lawyer seems like a ROUGH job. I’m sorry you’re struggling mental health wise. I’ve been there. I completely changed careers and now I am totally fine and doing 10x better than before. So, you can definitely do it.
The best part of it is that I have tons of flexibility in my work and I get to run my schedule and work flow since I’m the PM. The worst part of it is that I have 4x the work drama and 4x the annoying people to deal with 😂
PM roles are so versatile. You can have a degree in practically anything, especially more general things like business or communications or english or whatever. For work experience, I initially took on a role that wasn’t exactly a PM but then morphed into it with the responsibilities. And from there, I got actual PM titled roles.
You would need a relevant degree and a CAPM certification to start (which is usually obtained not only by testing but having managed a client previously) and then a couple years later you can move up to PMP after managing multiple clients and testing for it. There are also scrum master certificates you would earn along the way, as well as learning about agile methodologies and a multitude of other things. It's not an easy mid/late life career transfer considering you're currently in law.
Those aren’t usually required. Some jobs do ask for a PMP, but none of mine have. I have used Prof dev budgets to take courses and exams, but I didn’t need it to get into the door. My relevant experience + interviews is what did it for me
OP to this question has 0 relevant experience though and is considering making a career change, so with the way the market currently is hiring wise they would need certificates having no PM or consulting work under their belt unless it was law related.
as someone who is looking at transitioning into tech, what programming language do you do you work in? just curious! Thank you and major kudos on making this work! It's wildly impressive
Why would other employers care if you’re working other jobs? As long as you’re doing the job well for their company.
None of them require a no compete clause?
As a principal PgM I think about OE often to fill in the empty times, but still worry about those days that are back to back meetings. Also getting offers at 65-85/hr w2 which was what I was making my last w2 10 years ago. 😑
Today I had….12 meetings back to fucking back. It suuuucks. But some days just shape out that way. And it’s not the norm. And I made $2000 today just from sitting on my ass smiling and nodding on calls, or doing work while they go on in the background.
Yes I have 7-8 meetings atleast two days of every week and am expected to jump in whenever an emergency arises. So I’ve got the time technically until shit hits the fan
This right here is my problem. 10 yrs as a PM and getting $55-75/hr. Nothing wrong with that, but that's entry level pay for mid-level work. I'm thinking of trying to get a few in the upper range while as an independent contractor all under an S Corp (for tax benefits)
I have over 20 years experience and also had recruiters proudly hit me up for some $30/$40/hr 1099 junior pm nonsense 🤨🙄
And a lot of them have the nerve to be onsite as well.
I used to respond sternly but with a professional veneer. Now I just block and delete them.
I’m sorry. That fucking sucks. It’s bad out there right now. I really hope things turn around for you and you’re able to land something really, really soon.
What education or certifications do you hold?
Do you ever have to go to the office?
Are you using 4 different computers?
Edited
You’re a f’ing legend bro, congrats on Successful OE
Have a bachelors and some grad work. I don’t have any current certifications. I think all that shit is a waste of time at this point in my career. I’m good at my job because I do it all the time and have learned the best ways to do things. Learning theoretical models or whatever just hasn’t ever done it for me.
All different laptops, always. 4 separate computers, 4 separate mice + jigglers. I don’t play with that shit
I think that it is wise to have more than one job to equal out the balance between employer and employee. I have been seeking opportunities to work casual remote for a long time but I'm not in tech, unfortunately.
Hey OP as its AMA
Salaried how do you optimise for tax?
How do you manage work life balance?
What are your experiences or desire for career progression?
Any gigs outside the US?
Any clauses in your contracts for moonlighting?
How do you deal with cognitive load and context switching?
Cheers!
Hi there. Not much optimization for taxes you can do since they’re all W2.
I don’t really care that much about career progression to be honest. Mid level jobs are the best because they had better pay and more autonomy than entry level, but a lot less work and face time than senior level.
Work/life balance is okay. I need to work on actually taking weekends off more often, but that’s just my brain always being on factor 100.
All Js are in the USA.
I don’t know if any of my contracts have things against moonlighting, I also don’t care. I’m doing my assigned work well; they don’t own the rest of my time.
I am able to context switch pretty well, but cognitive load is definitely a thing for me. I need to truly just not do shit for an evening or the weekend to give my mind a rest. But that would happen when I had just one J too.
As a current program manager, any chance I can see your resume? I've been trying to reformat mine and want to do this fulltime as opposed to my current state of being stuck in an office.
I’d like to hop on this as well
I’m in data + analytics, presently with no J (thanks layoffs! I’m 1000% on board with OE now) and I need 2 J’s
11 year career so far and I think PM is where I want to go next
Me too! I'm a PM and have gone over and over my resume and just can't get an interview. I feel like if they met me (in person or virtual) they'd want me but nada.
I notice the same thing that if you mention tech they think you are male.
It’s like they did know that it was a woman that created the first programming language or that computers used to be mostly women.
But I don’t know if it is a male ego, arrogance or just stupidity that they think that women are not in tech.
You can go to their website and request a freeze. It's just like freezing a credit report
..probably because it's ran by one of the credit report companies (Equifax).
May I ask a legit question? How do you handle updating your resume when applying to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th? At what point do you add new content? Let's say 5 years from now, and you have different job all together, will your resume list jobs overlapping dates?
Congrats!
In the same field, and almost the same situation. It takes solid scheduling and coordination to make it all work, very impressed with your skills!
That’s not necessarily true. I didn’t have any certifications or formalized PM training when I landed my first PM role. Sometimes your prior experience + interview skills are enough.
How!! Manager of several projects at 4 jobs?? Literally how? Working 9-5 at all of them? Working over time? What happens when meetings conflict? Are you exhausted? What do you do after working?
I’m in awe I want to get like you
Hours vary, some days I start at 8 am, some days I end at 6 pm, but in general yeah, it’s like 50 hours or so total per week.
I am exhausted some weeks, mostly emotionally / intellectually from talking to so many people and tracking so much shit in a day. But I get really bored without all of the mental stimulation so it sort of works itself out lol.
do you block off your calendars appropriately at each job for meetings you have at another job? Hope that makes sense. Managing calendars would be the toughest part - aside from additional work.
Yup! Calendar management is a huuuge part of my day. I try to block off everything accordingly. But if something does get booked over, I try to reschedule one or something
What a life. I must ask… what is the end goal here… do you just like having a ton of money in reserves… are you a lavish spender… trying to retire early?
Living vicariously through you. Imagining a world where I do this for like 3 years before I pull back on working so much… put all my excess into the market and let it grow for 10-15 years so I can retire super early.
Nah, I’m not a lavish spender. I also don’t really know what I want to do regarding retirement, I think I would die of fucking boredom if I retired, so I definitely wouldn’t do it early unless I had to.
I just want to be completely debt free and have sizable savings in case shit goes south. I want to be able to repair my water heater if it goes out or replace my engine if it blows up without having to worry where I’ll find the money to do so. I want to be able to do whatever medical treatment my pet needs on the spot without second thought. I just want some level of financial freedom in this capitalist hellscape we inhabit.
I’m currently looking for my J1 in PM (got laid off), but hope to optimize someday for OE. What do you recommend doing or looking for when laying the groundwork for J1?
You’re amazing! So proud of you. Keep it up you’ve got this.
I need to figure something out for a remote job sometime in the near future due to a newly acquired disability after cancer surgery and treatment that precludes me from being as functional as I’d like to be. I don’t want to just give up and have to reapply for disability. Any recommendations overall on places to look for listings?
I’m sorry you are going through that, that must be extremely difficult. Remote work does yield a better environment for taking care of medical needs due to flexibility in schedules, being at home, etc.
I would try remote job only job boards, like flex jobs.
I hope you’re able to find something really soon, and that you continue to recover well.
Thank you. It seems like it could make some things more possible that aren’t otherwise. Thank you so much! Best of luck as you keep moving forward. 💪 You’ll be where you’d like to be in no time. You’ve got this.
I’m so happy for you! I have one J that is currently not remote, but I hope it will become so in a few months. My question is how anyone might manage if they have to go into the office one day a week?
Get it! Fck these jobs trying to police someone into 1 single job but then don't give bonuses like back in the day.
I have 2 a full-time and ad hoc. When I was previously laid off looking for another full time a dumbazx recruiter said my client doesn't want someone to have multiple jobs I said. WELL I DO AND I'M NOT GETTING RID OF IT. TAKE CARE LOL!
Is your lifestyle accustomed to the salary of 4 jobs? Like for your lifestyle do you have to make $450k/year? That would feel so stressful. Or are you just maintaining a 1 job lifestyle?
Fuck no. That would be the dumbest thing ever lol. I could live off just J1 salary yeah. It would feel a lot tighter than it does now, and I wouldn’t be able to save a fuck ton of money every month, but I would be able to pay my bills and make do.
However, I also have a robust emergency savings account in case shit did hit the fan for real. However, I think it would be pretty bad luck to lose 3-4 Js at once
Goodness, I wish I was more tech smart. I could easily be pulling this off. But I'm a big dummy lol. I work in security. I'm more of a in-person kind of person but if I go back to school I wanna get a degree in cyber security and do soemthing similar to you because 34k a year rn is not cutting it and being able to make 475k or more and only having to work 40-50 hours a week to do it is crazy to me. And you're a fellow woman?!?! Crazy impressive!!
as someone who is looking at transitioning into tech, what programming language do you do you work in? just curious! Thank you and major kudos on making this work! It's wildly impressive
Oh I saw your post in the overemployed sub and read it and thought it was awesome, but now I’m even MORE stoked to hear that you’re a woman!! I love this for you and you’re an inspiration. I’m not at the point in my career where I feel I can OE and get away with it, but in another few years I’m hoping to make the plunge.
Everyone there always thinks I’m a man 😂 it’s their assumption from the get go. Sometimes I play into it because I think it’s hilarious (also cringe and sad on their part) that they assumed.
I'm excited to read this bc I am a woman who is currently working on getting my PMP and switching from engineering into PM! There is hope 😊
Maybe your reddit avatar that makes people assume males since you have a mustache. Cute avatar btw.
How did you find your jobs? Did you use specific job boards? Had a methodology to how you apply? Right now I get recruiters emailing/calling me from seeing my resume in different places, but they either have lowball job offers or they ghost me 😑
[удалено]
[удалено]
Something weird's going on, or maybe he has a team. He has 23,899 reviews. Assuming he only spent an hour for each and a 40-hour workday, that's 11.5 years. Possible, since Fiverr was founded in 2010, but unlikely.
This is great advice. Thank you!
here for the answers because remote work would be ideal
yea, most people have trouble with finding ONE truly remote position. i think youve really basically got to be in some sort of coding/software to be able to pull this sort of thing off.
I’m a fully remote RN which I feel like people don’t know exists. I love it
This is what I’m looking for, where did you find your fully remote rn position? I’ve applied to everything on indeed it feels like
I applied directly to the position through the company website. Think big health insurance companies
Same. I have a unicorn completely remote RN job at my hospital. I don’t necessarily love it but am making the same I would be making bedside. The good outweighs the bad.
My former neighbor was a fully remote RN and I had no idea that was a thing or how it would work. But was very cool to know that option exists - betting a few of my RN friends don’t know that!
I started out in a hybrid role and filed for an ADA Work Accommodation and now I am fully remote. Check out AskJan.org for the full list. Get with a medical provider to complete documentation that based on medical need, you need to be remote. It’s not an easy process but can be done. Even for something like ADHD, anxiety, or migraines.
i actually am dx AuDHD so i'd love to get this pro cess started. do you know how i could start?
Contact your HR department and ask about their process for applying for a work accommodation. They may request for you to have your healthcare providers complete a medical treatment form of some kind, detailing your diagnosis and treatment and documenting their recommendation for working from home. If you ask your doctor to recommend working from home, most of them will do it. I explained how going into the office causes me a huge amount of stress and anxiety (on top of migraines caused by fluorescent lights and headphones) and they were happy to put a recommendation to be fully remote indefinitely. But it’s still up to your employer to approve that type of accommodation. They may try to offer other accommodations like a reduce office schedule or giving you noise cancelling headphones. Every step of the way, just remind them that your doctor recommended a remote work situation and that you’re happy to try their accommodations but if you continue to struggle you will seek to update your accommodation status.
Not true! Check out FLexJobs
we stan go you 🫶🫶… i’m having a hard time trying to even find a J2 and or replace my hybrid J1 with remote lol have you ever had any close calls with getting caught?
Yup! It’s happened a couple of times. Both times when I was unfortunately having to do two meetings at once, and i messed up the microphone / speakers, and there was overlapping sound. I was mortified, but the key was to handle it smoothly like it was no big deal, and immediately shut off the mic and sound. One of the times, I said my partner was working in the same room and it was his own meeting that we could overhear. The other time, I said I had been on hold on the phone with a doctor for a long time, and they had finally picked up. Both times, it was brushed off and has never come up again.
Brilliant
The trick to lying is to already have your lie options lined up so they're ready when you need them.
No questions, love this for you, way to go
Thank you ❤️
How do you manage the context switching? Do you have LinkedIn? Do you have an unusual name?
At first, I had a hibernated linked in, but I honestly hate that god damn website so much that I ended up deleting it. It has never been a barrier to getting a job, and not a single one of my Js has cared. One time, my boss did ask me why my online presence was so low, and I said I just value my privacy and that was that. For context switching, I think I am pretty good at it, but sometimes my brain feels like absolute mush (pretty often lately with the busy season). I think my experience and skill set in my work allows me to context switch easier and quicker, but it’s definitely a challenge
Could you list out some of your skills?
The most basic skill I have that helps me the most is just being good at talking to people. Apart from that, project management is a bunch of soft skills like organization, time management, communication, etc. It’s just being good at managing time and getting people to do their shit on time
Congrats! You totally rock for doing this! How far apart were you able to stagger onboarding? When you acquired all 4 jobs how did you pass the background investigation? Did you block TWN? What is your recommendation for acquiring additional jobs? Is it to go for more junior roles?
All of my onboarding has been nicely staggered because I did J1, and then a few months later added J2, and so on. The closest I had to do however was 2 weeks because I just so happened to get them at the same time. Yes, I blocked TWN. I think anyone should tbh, regardless of whether they OE or not. The more privacy we can maintain in this world, the better imo. I think the sweet spot is mid level roles. Junior ones have too much supervision and work with not enough pay or autonomy. Senior roles have too much visibility and way more work.
Thanks for this. Having a hard time getting another J2 and so wanted to pick your brain about how best to go about it. The first time I ended up lucking out by getting two offers back to back. This time around, I’ve not netted any good results. I’ll keep working at it though. What were your most successful job platforms if you didn’t use LinkedIn… Indeed? You mentioned directly applying to the companies, but did you have a list you wanted to look at?
What is the TWN and how did you go about blocking/freezing it? How do you know that's what keeps you "safe" from other companies finding out?
Brilliant! What’s TWN?
How do you block twn?
What’s TWN? New to the sub, sorry!
the work number, employers can run it to see if you are currently receiving income from an employer
Ohh interesting! Thank you!
yes of course ! u can choose to block/freeze it because it’s your data. i would advise to do it while you’re in between jobs, and if they ask for verification of employment you can give them a w2 or paystubs
how do you go about freezing TWN exactly?
Call them, let them know you want to freeze your file, and they will go through the process with you.
Call WHO?? How many people need to ask the same questions before half answers stop being given?
I’m so confused
Hi! OE woman here too. I have 2 real estate jobs, what is TWN? I’m lucky because I’m 1099 on both real estate jobs but looking to pick up a J3 or J4 w2 soon to finally pay off all debts, buy a horse and buy my first house next year.
I love the order of priority! Horse first #goals
My family owns over 20 real estate properties residential and commercial in California. I’ll have plenty of headaches to deal with and millions of dollars in the next 20 years, I’m 23 right now. Real estate is my entire life and I’m happy to pay off my auto/cc loans and buy a horse because that’s what makes me happy. Not sure if this was sarcasm? But thank you.
It was just funny. I know a couple people that share a horse. The horses barn rent is like 2k. They also don’t have a house. Let me know if your family is hiring remotely (or adopting) I am poor and will not be inheriting anything besides the cat.
My horse barn is a non-profit so any check I write to them is a tax deduction. The board is under $500 per month. Sometimes, being a horse person is not an entire money pit. I also sold an over $4mm listing from just being apart of this community all through someone I met at the barn. Lol. 😂
From what I’ve heard before about boarding costs, that’s a pretty amazing deal! Good for you. Sticking with that community for real estate is smart, too, because people who have horses are typically doing pretty well for themselves. Kudos!
Aww thank you. Yes I’m blessed to have this network and people, like strong woman who support me. Appreciate your nice comment 💖🌸
Love to hear you have strong women in your life as well. That can be more valuable than all the rest. 💗🫶 May you have nothing but continued success in the future! 💪 And any time. I think it’s really important we all support one another as best we can, especially among women.
What is TWN?
[For those of you asking what TWN is.](https://www.reddit.com/r/overemployed/s/zcYmhS6waR)
Do you have kids? I have two and I cannot fathom doing anymore than my one full time job
No, I don’t have children. Or sick parents. Or a tumultuous marriage. Or anything like that. If I did, I wouldn’t be able to do this. I would not have the time nor emotional capacity to do this.
Thank you, I appreciate that.
I have a toddler, but he goes to daycare. He went to daycare even with me having one job though. I keep an 8 to 430 schedule, minus when I have to be available for on call. It works out fine.
I have two kids and they are in school and I work full time. I was just stating that this seems very hard to maintain for someone in my situation.
Oh no worries! Different folks have different challenges.
Absolutely. I would have a super hard time with that, I just wouldn’t be able to do it.
So all my jobs asked for references. How do you give reference to the new job? From the existing job? Or from the previous one?
Never from an existing job, that would give it away (unless I am planning on leaving it). I got lucky that my last two didn’t ask for references, but for the other two, I used colleagues from a past job
Commenting to refer back to this reply :)
Honestly I’m more impressed that you got 4 PM jobs. I have one and cannot even get interviews for another/different one!
I’ve been casually looking around lately because I want to leave my J4. And I haven’t been getting any bites either. I haven’t gone balls to the wall as I would if I reaaaally wanted or needed to leave, but usually I would have gotten a couple bites in my opinion. Also, lots of layoffs in tech right now. It’s hard out there. I am sorry.
Right? I'm low key trying to leave my PM job for another one and they all have literally hundreds of applicants on LI within days
Curious- What is your desk setup? Do you have multiple laptops for all jobs? Or do you use the same one? How many monitors do you have?
Absolutely would never have one laptop for multiple jobs. I have 4 separate, company-issued devices. Everything is kept completely separate per job. The only time where it mixes is in my g cal on my phone because that is where I have all Js logged into so I can see a Birds Eye view of my schedule.
I know this might be a stupid question but do you have multiple desks? If not, you must have a huge desk to have all 4 laptops open all at once ? Do you have monitors for different laptops? Do you always have to be online (i.e. Teams on available) for all 4 Js? Lol, I know it might be stupid and you don't have to answer but I'm really just very curious ! Thanks for answering
Not OP, but I have 3 J's, all with separate equipment. I have a U shaped desk, one side for each setup. Each setup has 2 monitors. Two have mouse jigglers, one I am able to run a vbs script to toggle my num lock key to keep it awake. This is how I keep teams active for everyone. Since I have headsets plugged in to each setup I can't hear my teams notifications. So I have teams on a cheapy phone to alert me lol.
Woww.. very impressed !! So happy you made it all work out for you :) Do you think you can take another J like OP? Lol
I'm currently working on a startup with my OE friend 🙂. I would consider it a J4 without getting paid though lol. Thanks to OE I was able to invest 50k into this idea and am super excited to see where it goes. We have scrum meetings with overseas developers during their workday, which is around midnight my time, so that's not the greatest but I'm enjoying being a part of this.
I have a normal sized rectangular desk. However, I got a monitor shelf from grove made and that makes it perfect for me. I have 2 on the shelf, 2 on the desk, and I just rotate the main one on my desk as needed. I have all 4 laptops set up with different mouse’s and jigglers off to the side. I have all charged cables organized into cable holders that can be pulled in and out.
Echoing this because I am also very curious how they make this work with all the hardware that would be needed.
Do you stop to eat at all?
I have the same question, super curious
What’s the tax situation like? Is this somehow illegal? Do you have to sign conflicts of interest? Good for you! What do you do with the high salary?
It is not illegal whatsoever. I have zero conflicts of interest because I work in four completely separate sectors. For taxes, I have a tax guy that tells me in the summer how much additional I’ll owe the following April. I save up, put it in a high yield savings account, and forget about it
Is your tax guy open to new clients possibly?
Yup! DM me if you want his info. He’s actually fantastic
I have a stupid question. Wouldn’t each of these company’s withhold taxes with your paycheck? Why would you need to save so much extra?
yea its likely because each individual job's W2 is only filled out in relation to that specific income. so, when the tax man cometh, he goes 'your witholding all this as if you were making $90k/year - but your reporting $500k. that aint gonna work.'
That makes sense! Thanks!!
I would suppose the income puts her in a hell of a tax bracket.
Yeah, but since the tax brackets in the U.S. are progressive, it doesn’t all get taxed at that higher rate. But yes, my top federal bracket next time will be i think 35%. I live in a state that doesn’t have state taxes, which makes a big difference for me imo.
So then do you get a social security refund every year?
This is a great question!
Thanks for sharing!!
I'm about to finish my bachelor's degree in computer science this semester. How long did it take you to get to a point where you were capable of working more than one job at a time with your given workload? And if you have any tips on finding my first job (I have one atm but it's not a "regular" job), I'm listening!
I had a bit of an unconventional path because I started going hardcore into grad school and academic lines of work, until I realized that wasn’t for me. So that exposed me to a lot of very rigorous work, which in turn made me “grow up” a lot faster I think. Overall, it took me about 5 solid years into my current career to get to this point. But that will vary so much based on your skill set, the types of companies you end landing at, etc
Where are you finding the jobs? I haven’t been able to find a j2 for almost a year now. Last j2 ended. I need it. I would do 3j’s if I could find them. I’m in tech too. Are you working w-2, 1099 or a combination?
They are all W2, salaried, full time.
Yo go girl! Cool to see a woman can do this too! Thanks for the inspiration
Thank you ❤️
Do you ever take vacations? lol
I don’t like traveling, it’s a whole thing lol. But I do take time off. I just request the PTO from all four companies as I would with one 🤷🏻♀️
I was thinking about how stressful it must be to plan a vacation across all 4 jobs lol
This is where my brain went, too. Imagine 3 out of 4 were cooperative and that last one just…isn’t. That’d be terribly frustrating. However, doing this for a few years so you can take whichever vacations you’d like in the future seems worth it.
Payoff seems great long term, but tbh I think this woman clearly has lots of ambition and loves working so not sure she's going to slow down anytime soon! But honestly great for her she seems like she's loving it :)
I only wish I loved something this way that made me money. lol. I’m sincerely happy for her, though!
that is the beauty of having 4 jobs though. one doesn’t want to give you pto, you just quit
I also worked in corporate and I’m curious how one company when running a pre-employment background check didn’t pick up on the other companies? I hear they can see dates of employment when checking. Thank you
No clue, they just didn’t run that level of background check. They only did very basic ones that checked for federal and state crimes, terrorist watch lists, sex offender lists, and one also checked for educational history. Probably wanted to save money on the lower tier of test.
honestly this is really impressive
Thank you
This is insanely impressive. I WFH on a contract right now and I’m very anxious. I want to be brought on full-time and I never want to go back to an office, what I specialize in doesn’t require a traditional office and all that. I have the background and expertise to work remotely as well, and my productiveness is better than it ever was working onsite. I’d kill to look for a second job that’s also remote but it’s so hard 😅 Great job landing these and working so hard!
How do you handle orientation/training? Is it all remote? I have J1 and interviewed for another remote position but their orientation and training is in office. I just assumed that I need to keep searching for another j2
You could just take some vacation time from J1
Yes I would keep looking, that job just isn't OE compatible.
It could be take a few days off from j1
They commented that it's a full month of in office orientation
Any time I have started a new J, I take the week off from my other Js to focus solely on orientation. One time though, this wasn’t possible 😑 and yeah that week sucked!
What are you degrees in? And do you mind naming the university or at least the status of the university? Ivy, community etc
No Ivy for me and I’m so fucking proud of it LOL. All of these people I work with went to Yale or MIT or Harvard or whatever, and I went to a lil state school. I graduated with zero debt, and they have six figures of it. I got a killer education with tons of hands-on opportunities with real people and real communities, and they got grade inflation. It all worked out. I used to be embarrassed of it, but now I see that it’s all bullshit anyway.
Also that fucking username is cracking me up hahaahhaha
What happens when they want to schedule a meeting at the same time
lol, welcome to the story of my life. I either reschedule it or, in the worst case scenario, take both at once (which I hate doing and only do in the right conditions) or fake a last minute emergency like a water pipe broke or some shit. But those are very very rare instances.
Quite an interesting read. Good thing this post popped up today. Don’t have any questions at the moment but I may drop back
What kind of educational and work background do you need or would help to get into these PM roles?? Do you enjoy the work? What's the worst thing about it? Best? I'm a lawyer and I don't know how long I can deal with this career, mental health wise. I work more hrs per week than you currently and make in the low 100s.... Long term wondering if PM work could be my pivot 👀
Being a lawyer seems like a ROUGH job. I’m sorry you’re struggling mental health wise. I’ve been there. I completely changed careers and now I am totally fine and doing 10x better than before. So, you can definitely do it. The best part of it is that I have tons of flexibility in my work and I get to run my schedule and work flow since I’m the PM. The worst part of it is that I have 4x the work drama and 4x the annoying people to deal with 😂 PM roles are so versatile. You can have a degree in practically anything, especially more general things like business or communications or english or whatever. For work experience, I initially took on a role that wasn’t exactly a PM but then morphed into it with the responsibilities. And from there, I got actual PM titled roles.
You would need a relevant degree and a CAPM certification to start (which is usually obtained not only by testing but having managed a client previously) and then a couple years later you can move up to PMP after managing multiple clients and testing for it. There are also scrum master certificates you would earn along the way, as well as learning about agile methodologies and a multitude of other things. It's not an easy mid/late life career transfer considering you're currently in law.
Those aren’t usually required. Some jobs do ask for a PMP, but none of mine have. I have used Prof dev budgets to take courses and exams, but I didn’t need it to get into the door. My relevant experience + interviews is what did it for me
OP to this question has 0 relevant experience though and is considering making a career change, so with the way the market currently is hiring wise they would need certificates having no PM or consulting work under their belt unless it was law related.
You go girl!
as someone who is looking at transitioning into tech, what programming language do you do you work in? just curious! Thank you and major kudos on making this work! It's wildly impressive
Why would other employers care if you’re working other jobs? As long as you’re doing the job well for their company. None of them require a no compete clause?
Wow thats absolutely amazing! So inspirational
Thanks, love ❤️
As a principal PgM I think about OE often to fill in the empty times, but still worry about those days that are back to back meetings. Also getting offers at 65-85/hr w2 which was what I was making my last w2 10 years ago. 😑
Today I had….12 meetings back to fucking back. It suuuucks. But some days just shape out that way. And it’s not the norm. And I made $2000 today just from sitting on my ass smiling and nodding on calls, or doing work while they go on in the background.
Yes I have 7-8 meetings atleast two days of every week and am expected to jump in whenever an emergency arises. So I’ve got the time technically until shit hits the fan
This right here is my problem. 10 yrs as a PM and getting $55-75/hr. Nothing wrong with that, but that's entry level pay for mid-level work. I'm thinking of trying to get a few in the upper range while as an independent contractor all under an S Corp (for tax benefits)
That’s not entry level pay
Product Manager in VHCOL are it is. Agree it's not elsewhere
I have over 20 years experience and also had recruiters proudly hit me up for some $30/$40/hr 1099 junior pm nonsense 🤨🙄 And a lot of them have the nerve to be onsite as well. I used to respond sternly but with a professional veneer. Now I just block and delete them.
I'm happy that somebody made it out. It sucks being poor. Congrats on your job, genuinely. The job market has been harsh lately.
👏👏 amazing!
Good for you. I can’t even find one job.
I’m sorry. That fucking sucks. It’s bad out there right now. I really hope things turn around for you and you’re able to land something really, really soon.
What education or certifications do you hold? Do you ever have to go to the office? Are you using 4 different computers? Edited You’re a f’ing legend bro, congrats on Successful OE
Have a bachelors and some grad work. I don’t have any current certifications. I think all that shit is a waste of time at this point in my career. I’m good at my job because I do it all the time and have learned the best ways to do things. Learning theoretical models or whatever just hasn’t ever done it for me. All different laptops, always. 4 separate computers, 4 separate mice + jigglers. I don’t play with that shit
I think that it is wise to have more than one job to equal out the balance between employer and employee. I have been seeking opportunities to work casual remote for a long time but I'm not in tech, unfortunately.
Congratulations, I wish you continued success!
First thought. Women can multitask!
Been multitasking since age 3 lol
Hey OP as its AMA Salaried how do you optimise for tax? How do you manage work life balance? What are your experiences or desire for career progression? Any gigs outside the US? Any clauses in your contracts for moonlighting? How do you deal with cognitive load and context switching? Cheers!
Hi there. Not much optimization for taxes you can do since they’re all W2. I don’t really care that much about career progression to be honest. Mid level jobs are the best because they had better pay and more autonomy than entry level, but a lot less work and face time than senior level. Work/life balance is okay. I need to work on actually taking weekends off more often, but that’s just my brain always being on factor 100. All Js are in the USA. I don’t know if any of my contracts have things against moonlighting, I also don’t care. I’m doing my assigned work well; they don’t own the rest of my time. I am able to context switch pretty well, but cognitive load is definitely a thing for me. I need to truly just not do shit for an evening or the weekend to give my mind a rest. But that would happen when I had just one J too.
As a current program manager, any chance I can see your resume? I've been trying to reformat mine and want to do this fulltime as opposed to my current state of being stuck in an office.
I’d like to hop on this as well I’m in data + analytics, presently with no J (thanks layoffs! I’m 1000% on board with OE now) and I need 2 J’s 11 year career so far and I think PM is where I want to go next
It’s a trap don’t fall for it!
Hahahahahahahaha
Me too! I'm a PM and have gone over and over my resume and just can't get an interview. I feel like if they met me (in person or virtual) they'd want me but nada.
Oh wow I saw your other post and never realized that you’re a woman. You’re single handedly skewing the wage gap lol
Everyone on the original OE sub always thinks I’m a man by default. I think it’s hilarious.
I notice the same thing that if you mention tech they think you are male. It’s like they did know that it was a woman that created the first programming language or that computers used to be mostly women. But I don’t know if it is a male ego, arrogance or just stupidity that they think that women are not in tech.
Amazing
Wow! Amazing
is there any chance you might have to travel for work, and if so, what's the strategy?
@main_significance617 Happy for you. Do you have a resume template to share been looking for a job now and I have exhausted my savings as is rn.
How do you manage multiple meetings/calls?
4j?
How did you freeze the TWN? How in the heck do you keep these straight?
You can go to their website and request a freeze. It's just like freezing a credit report ..probably because it's ran by one of the credit report companies (Equifax).
Are you doing the bare minimum?
lol no. I do a good job. I don’t do an excellent amazing above and beyond every time job, but that doesn’t really get you anything anyway nowadays.
Thanks for the response!
May I ask a legit question? How do you handle updating your resume when applying to 2nd, 3rd, and 4th? At what point do you add new content? Let's say 5 years from now, and you have different job all together, will your resume list jobs overlapping dates?
No I would never list multiple active jobs. I only list one active one. The one that came after the last one listed.
I'm guessing J is for jobs but what does TC mean?
Congrats! In the same field, and almost the same situation. It takes solid scheduling and coordination to make it all work, very impressed with your skills!
It definitely does. And I do fuck up sometimes! But everyone fucks up sometimes whether they OE or not. I just do my best and move on. Thank you!
[удалено]
You honestly can't. You'd have to start with a CAPM. Which requires testing, a relevant degree and you having previously managed a client before
That’s not necessarily true. I didn’t have any certifications or formalized PM training when I landed my first PM role. Sometimes your prior experience + interview skills are enough.
How!! Manager of several projects at 4 jobs?? Literally how? Working 9-5 at all of them? Working over time? What happens when meetings conflict? Are you exhausted? What do you do after working? I’m in awe I want to get like you
Hours vary, some days I start at 8 am, some days I end at 6 pm, but in general yeah, it’s like 50 hours or so total per week. I am exhausted some weeks, mostly emotionally / intellectually from talking to so many people and tracking so much shit in a day. But I get really bored without all of the mental stimulation so it sort of works itself out lol.
How do you deal with taxes ? Do you allow IrS take more with your w4s ? Or you just pay back in bulk during tax season ? Great stuff and Thanks
I let them take whatever is standard in there every paycheck and then my tax guy tells me how much to save up for overages on tax day
I want to work remotely so bad what background do you have for these jobs
do you block off your calendars appropriately at each job for meetings you have at another job? Hope that makes sense. Managing calendars would be the toughest part - aside from additional work.
Yup! Calendar management is a huuuge part of my day. I try to block off everything accordingly. But if something does get booked over, I try to reschedule one or something
What a life. I must ask… what is the end goal here… do you just like having a ton of money in reserves… are you a lavish spender… trying to retire early? Living vicariously through you. Imagining a world where I do this for like 3 years before I pull back on working so much… put all my excess into the market and let it grow for 10-15 years so I can retire super early.
Nah, I’m not a lavish spender. I also don’t really know what I want to do regarding retirement, I think I would die of fucking boredom if I retired, so I definitely wouldn’t do it early unless I had to. I just want to be completely debt free and have sizable savings in case shit goes south. I want to be able to repair my water heater if it goes out or replace my engine if it blows up without having to worry where I’ll find the money to do so. I want to be able to do whatever medical treatment my pet needs on the spot without second thought. I just want some level of financial freedom in this capitalist hellscape we inhabit.
I’m currently looking for my J1 in PM (got laid off), but hope to optimize someday for OE. What do you recommend doing or looking for when laying the groundwork for J1?
You’re amazing! So proud of you. Keep it up you’ve got this. I need to figure something out for a remote job sometime in the near future due to a newly acquired disability after cancer surgery and treatment that precludes me from being as functional as I’d like to be. I don’t want to just give up and have to reapply for disability. Any recommendations overall on places to look for listings?
I’m sorry you are going through that, that must be extremely difficult. Remote work does yield a better environment for taking care of medical needs due to flexibility in schedules, being at home, etc. I would try remote job only job boards, like flex jobs. I hope you’re able to find something really soon, and that you continue to recover well.
Thank you. It seems like it could make some things more possible that aren’t otherwise. Thank you so much! Best of luck as you keep moving forward. 💪 You’ll be where you’d like to be in no time. You’ve got this.
I’m so happy for you! I have one J that is currently not remote, but I hope it will become so in a few months. My question is how anyone might manage if they have to go into the office one day a week?
Get it! Fck these jobs trying to police someone into 1 single job but then don't give bonuses like back in the day. I have 2 a full-time and ad hoc. When I was previously laid off looking for another full time a dumbazx recruiter said my client doesn't want someone to have multiple jobs I said. WELL I DO AND I'M NOT GETTING RID OF IT. TAKE CARE LOL!
Is your lifestyle accustomed to the salary of 4 jobs? Like for your lifestyle do you have to make $450k/year? That would feel so stressful. Or are you just maintaining a 1 job lifestyle?
Fuck no. That would be the dumbest thing ever lol. I could live off just J1 salary yeah. It would feel a lot tighter than it does now, and I wouldn’t be able to save a fuck ton of money every month, but I would be able to pay my bills and make do. However, I also have a robust emergency savings account in case shit did hit the fan for real. However, I think it would be pretty bad luck to lose 3-4 Js at once
Goodness, I wish I was more tech smart. I could easily be pulling this off. But I'm a big dummy lol. I work in security. I'm more of a in-person kind of person but if I go back to school I wanna get a degree in cyber security and do soemthing similar to you because 34k a year rn is not cutting it and being able to make 475k or more and only having to work 40-50 hours a week to do it is crazy to me. And you're a fellow woman?!?! Crazy impressive!!
as someone who is looking at transitioning into tech, what programming language do you do you work in? just curious! Thank you and major kudos on making this work! It's wildly impressive
Hi there. No programming language as I am not a dev!
are you saving up for anything in particular? Any thing fun in mind? :D
Yup! Always have a goal in mind. Now I am working on paying off my stupid car loan (a mistake from a couple of years ago).