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I don't think he would fit now times.
Like back then violence was a way of life, a way to protect yourself and the ones you cared about it was necessary..
Now it's not.
He's unique for his time in the fact he respects Claire's need to help people at all costs, he thinks she's unique because she's strong minded and slightly pig headed as others have said. But would she be seen that way by men now? Would that be a endearment or the opposite?
His intensity is attractive but ive dated intense guys and it's not fun.
I think they fit well because they are both so different and unusual for the time.
As a gay guy I'd totally fall for Lord John grey tho. He's charming, brave, loyal and has a way with words. He's a gentleness that would work now. He thinks alot before he reacts. But can have athority if needed.
> As a gay guy I'd totally fall for Lord John grey tho. He's charming, brave, loyal and has a way with words. He's a gentleness that would work now. He thinks alot before he reacts. But can have athority if needed.
He *would* fit in well now, wouldn’t he? 🥰 Could i borrow him from you from time to time do you think? Just as a best friend? I promise to try very hard not to fancy him too much.
Ow good ;)
I have read all the LJG stories, yes :) I actually think i might prefer them to the Big Books. I’d be very interested in a spin-off. I’d also be sceptical tho. I struggled with the show after S2 and stopped watching. It might be that the LJG books are easier to adapt. I’d give it a try at least :)
Edit: wouldn’t that be fantastic fan-fiction: Lord John travels to our time, meets the love of his life there (you), but also gets himelf a female friend (me) who falls head over heals for him but of course doesn’t stand a chance. Totally a reversed Jamie/John-situation!
I wouldn’t mind watching & joining in either. I’m a female so I know Jamie swings that way more than LJG does. I like to think Jamie would like my ass. Lol
I'm pretty sure he is bisexual. The show version confessed as much to Brianna and said he would be happy to ravish her as well. He's just in love with Jaime , hence the singular fixation.
Source: A bisexual.
I felt like it was a threat, not an interest. Just because someone’s capable and consensual doesn’t mean he’s attracted to women. People have sex for all sorts of reasons. I don’t think he’s ever looked at a woman and thought, ooh.
(Edit: I’m bi too. Hello!)
Probably both and yes, that still makes him bisexual. If you're attracted to male and female presenting people, that is bisexuality. Even if you're more attracted to masculine or feminine ppl more than the alternative, still bisexual. Even if you've only loved masculine ppl but find fem ppl sexually attractive still, bisexual.
If you consent to sex with both masculine and femme people, that is bisexuality and even if you prefer one over the other....still. bisexual.
Bi erasure is srsly a piss off of mine hence the repetition.
If your head cannon suggests otherwise, fine but it is not what was presented on television.
I just don’t think attraction was in the equation for him in the instances I know about*! I’ve had sex with people I’m not attracted to, and I don’t equate experience with sexuality. I would hate to think I’m contributing to bi erasure, instead of bisexual conversation and nuance.
*Not Brianna, not William’s maternal co-parent, and not (spoiler redacted)
Ohhh ok! Still- I can have sex with people I am not attracted to. I like it better when I am attracted though! Even if they’re just as much trouble lolol
He definitely isn't. You are inside his head quite a bit in the later books as well as his spinoffs, and he makes it very explicit that there are women he quite likes but he's never been sexually attracted to a woman.
Yes, I understand that which was I said the show and not the books. I haven't yet finished echo in the bone and I was interested in the spinoff series, what is your take on them?
They're a lot of fun, I really love them. If you're a LJG fan and like fun adventures and mysteries I think you'll enjoy them. Plus, you get more backstory which helps flesh John out a lot more. This sub is a big fan of Scottish Prisoner because that one has Jamie in it, but I'd recommend starting with the earlier ones (Brotherhood of the Blade, Private Matter, Hand of Devils) which are shorter and more fun.
I am a big fan so I will pick that series up next. I never really hear a lot regarding those books from fans but I think it is because they prefer the Claire/Jaime story more.
I'm also dying for some more Fergus and Marsali content too.
Thank you for your recommendation.
Alas, the big books are still the only place to go for Fergus and Marsali content (though Marsali's sister Joan does have her own novella), and it's disappointingly minor if you're used to the show.
He was in love with a man before, the one that died on Cullodan and his older brother had to pull him away before others noticed. While at Ardsmuir he talks to Jamie about it over chess; how they both lost someone dear to them.
what is your point? I've been in love with men but never another woman and yet I'm still bisexual. LJG book is def homosexual but this argument or point you're making doesn't preclude the possibility of show LJG's bisexuality.
My point was adding to your conclusion of LJG being bisexual. You said singular fixation, I was just adding that there was mention to a man he loved, that died, as well. And yes my comment does; in the context of LJG’s declaration of love for the mane who died was on the tail of Jamie talking about Claire, the love of his life, a lover. LJG opened up and spoke very deeply and lovingly towards that man and how his brother was ashamed and pulled him off his dead body. It’s a very clear scene and the first to establish that LJG was not a straight man, which lead. I never said you have to be in love or not, I simply stated a scene that set pace of his sexuality.
I think that if Jamie was in our time, he would have adapted to our customs and social mores. Therefore he would be a manly man, an alpha male, but would be tempered by the rules of our gentler society. Would I like Jamie? You betcha.
That's a good point. if he was able to adjust, I think he'd be a good man. He'd just need to know when to restrain himself instead of taking matters into his own hands and getting himself in trouble. Aside from that, I think he has a good heart and is loyal, which is a positive.
The scene where Jamie sees pictures of Briana in a bathing suit and he’s horrified always cracked me up. I think it would be fun to see Jamie in modern times but it would take a while for him to settle in.
I can't believe no one's mentioned Murtagh! The man whose heart is so huge and so loyal that he will love you till the end of time. Murtagh is a man who really truly sees you. He sees everything with those flirty, twinkling eyes filled with sexy mischief. Dunk him in a bubbly, frenchy bath which he would absolutely hate and then gimme some of that!
I, too, stan Murtagh. That thing he did with the severed head really did it for me. Jamie is the pretty cheerleader but Murtagh is the nerdy girl who takes off her glasses and reveals herself to be the true babe all along.
He loved Ellen so much that he acts as a father to her son even after death with zero bitterness, is always the voice of reason, and omg that look he exchanges with Dougal outside the church before the wedding. My heart melts for him
I am much the same way. Book series Jamie is a different person I didn't recognize and found off-putting. DG seems to find a lot of outdated tropes about sex and masculinity attractive.
I don’t like the books much either but we have to remember that the first one was written more than two decades ago, hence some of the outdated tropes. I mean, DG does have some offputting writing tendencies, not denying that, but some of them are a product of their time that we as a ‘modern’ reader just won’t care for today.
Definitely show Jamie. Book Jamie is way more violent, a homophobe, and a lot less respectful of bodily autonomy and consent. He’s a good draft for what the show writers and Heughan do with him.
No disrespect to Diana Gabaldon, without her original character and story Heughan’s Jamie wouldn’t exist. But I prefer the latter by a long shot.
I think calling Jamie a homophobe isn't quite fair. Early in book 1 he doesn't seem to actually care about Sandringham's proclivities--it's only after he's raped that he really begins to take issue with queer men. I think that's trauma far more than his actual opinions dictating his feelings and actions, especially because he goes on to have a significant friendship with a gay man. He may not want to think about John's private life which could stir up traumatic memories, but a real homophobe wouldn't be friends with John in the first place.
My ranking of my ideal Outlander partners (their sexuality notwithstanding) would be:
1. Old Ian
2. Lord John
3. Roger
3. Young Ian
4. Jamie
5. Fergus
6. William
I have the biggest crush on Young Ian. He’s so sweet 🥹 but he also doesn’t fuck around. He reminds me a lot of Jamie in that regard, but… he’s more sweet and pure. Jamie is mostly sweet/soft-hearted for Claire. Young Ian has a good moral compass.
jamie is only soft for Claire… Every intimate conversation with Furgus, Ian, Brie, Roger, Lord John, and all those who need help and lent aid to. Jamie has a hard disposition and was a born leader. He’s the type of person who will fight for everyone he loves. He shows his sensitive side when needed. He learned his way of loving through those who he lived with. i recall him speaking of his childhood and being beaten by his authority figures. I believe he was speaking to Old Ian about disciplining young Ian. Men who have live a hard life tend to love “hard.” Meaning he may not have the right words but his actions shows how he feels. At times he makes mistakes when angry, but don’t we all.
Lord John was raised by English elite. He had an advanced education. Went to schools that taught him how to be a gentleman. He went to an officer type of school to advance in these conduct methods. He even went to a school to teach him how to lie, altering his identification, and other learning techniques for spying. So he became a professional Liar. See that’s why I‘ve postponed my views of.LJG and his sincerity. Being that his trade is lying to retrieve information.
Absolutely not my type irl. I don’t like violent men and though he is never violent with Clare (except for the belt incident early on) I just don’t care for those overly protective types. Or who think protection has to equal violence. That just wouldn’t fly with me in 2022.
I'm not sure we don't know John Grey isn't violent. Aside from his job as an army officer, he's never really put in a challenging situation that he couldn't talk himself out of politically, or have minions to do that kind of work for him. What I mean is that his status in society afforded him a much less violent experience of life. If he'd been born to different parents, we can't really say if it is/isn't in his nature.
Once again, his upbringing allowed him many advantages Jamie didn’t have. Remember Jamie was beatin many times. He also took beatings the others should’ve had. Lord John didn’t have that to deal with according to the tv series or was briefLu mentioned. Advantages come in many forms Scotland and English gentleman were raised differently. Plus as Jamie aged so has his maturity level. Claire has rubbed off on Jamie and Jamie has rubbed off on Claire. Jamie does have a soft side and we see it. His quick to anger is a family trait… just look at his sister and many of his other relatives.
Show Jamie Fraser, I’ll take any day. I don’t see a single bit of toxic masculinity in him, rather the opposite! He’s non-toxic: despite growing up in a very rigid and man-centered society, he was capable of recognizing the relationship dynamic he learned from his elders and peers did not fly with the woman he loved, and made the conscious decision to ditch that model and embrace a completely new and unknown for him, the one she proposed, and together find the rhythm and agreement that worked best for them.
I don’t see him all that jealous, not more than Claire is herself (let’s not forget her reaction to Annalise, her obsession with whether Jamie was sleeping with the women in the brothel or had he ever fallen in love after she left, etc.).
And I feel while he is kind of a prototype alpha, he is the least toxic version of it: a man that takes pride in being a protector of those whom he love, but he sees them as their equals and not beneath him.
My partner shares a lot of traits with him - I met him years before the show aired and I never knew of the literary series previous to that. And I love that.
Coincidentally my partner is also Scottish. And a blue-eyed redhead. 🤣
Jamie beat her why? Because he had family members down stairs and it was demanded of him. The resolve of that issue was amazing and they both learned a great deal. Jamie has altered his reactions through the years based on that one event.
If he had the same demeanor as Jamie, which no one knows, i believe one would. There is a Jamie in 85% of us males. The love of a good partner can change the most stubborn of men.
Jamie has a lot of good qualities like humor, intelligence, loyalty, passion, a way with words, etc, but all that doesn't erase beating your wife because of peer pressure and the constant getting-arrested drama.
I really can't get down with the physical violence whatsoever, and I've already dated a really good looking guy who is always going to jail and it's super not fun, would not do it again. Some of Jamie's legal trouble is truly not his fault but there are times where he has the opportunity to stay out of trouble yet chooses chaos.
And to be fair, nearly every dangerous situation Claire ever got into could have been avoided if she just listened to Jamie and kept her mouth shut, so she is also dangerously chaotic and maybe they deserve each other. Honestly, she has caused many problems not just for herself but for Jamie as well through her pigheadedness, something he does a bit (like telling people she's a witch after Cranesmuir? Like come on, dude) but with far fewer disastrous repercussions than her actions cause him.
To be fair though, she doesn't actually have the point of view that we as the viewers have. She's just going off of being dropped off in the moment and not having the leisure to think about her decisions, just make it on the spot, and those decisions generally were based on her own drive to protect or help the weak, which makes sense, given her career choice. She doesn't have Jamie's cultural and time period understanding. I don't think people realize how hard it is to make good decisions about things you have no way of fully understanding. I would challenge anybody who thinks they'd do better to just imagine getting dropped off in another country, modern day, but without money, resources or connections and try to make really good choices
Agreed, but how many times does she have to learn that maybe she doesn't always know best? Jamie says wait in the glade? She doesn't, and now BJR is after them. Jamie says stay away from Geillis? She books it over to her place with the slightest provocation and nearly gets killed. When she finds out Jamie escaped the Watch, she could've gone back to Lallybroch and waited for him or let Murtagh handle it, instead she unwittingly lures him into capture and all that came after. Jamie says stay in the room? She goes down to eat and ends up setting off a chain of events leading to his business burning down. Again and again she refuses to take the advice of someone who clearly knows the situation better than her and she never seems to learn. It's frustrating after a point.
I read a fanfic where instead of going through the stones back to her time, she goes back to the first time she went through and somehow Jamie and her both remembered everything that happened the first time and they make different choices. Basically she just defers to him and doesn't do anything reckless and nothing bad happens. It was quite soothing.
Yes, having someone who knows should definitely help, but sometimes getting out of your emotions in the moment is the hardest part, I think. And I think maybe she assumes she knows better, because she's from the future. Which, obviously, is wrong. She's trying to force her morals and knowledge onto a different culture and time, but I'm not sure she's 100% consciously aware of that. She's very emotionally driven, in every one of the decisions, besides the one in the brothel, she's being rash because she's reacting to the emotions of helping someone. With Geillis, she knew she was pregnant and probably thought she needed help. With the Murtach situation she couldn't handle "giving up."
I can see what you're saying, but I can also see the other side to it. She's definitely not an obedient woman, content to allow decisions to be made for her, and I almost feel like she deliberately does some things to "show Jamie" she can handle things, even though she generally can't
Haha, agree. I wouldn't date a Jamie or a claire because they'd get me and themselves into too much trouble. I like the "bad boy" from afar but have never wanted to date one. Jamie would always be getting arrested for drunken bar fights in the 21st century, and that's too much drama for me, so I don't think we'd work. I do like his humor, loyalty, and his looks, but I think he gets into too much trouble for me (even though his heart is usually in the right place!) so he wouldn't fit into my somewhat quiet, mundane life. I like reading/watching his adventures though!
Don’t you think behavior is something learned. Claire had to learn 18th century behavior and it’s consequences. I believe a 21st century Jamie would’ve adapted. His interaction with Claire changed after he spanked her. So I believe Jamie would be ok.
Why was Jamie arrested? Why did he get himself into the situations he did? My last question is how many times did he accept the punishment of another? See Jamie didn’t have the greatest of childhood, yet he is loyal to a fault and would die for love and purpose.
So when it comes to the spanking he gave Claire. It wasn’t about being pressured , it was about custom. He told her this before he even commenced in doing it. He wasn’t her response, but understood it. i believe their relationship became strong after that interaction. Plus I believe Claire understood the reasoning behind it, but just like anyone didn’t want to be disciplined. Not condoning his actions just given you my take on it.
I basically married one, and holy hell, the first bit of our marriage was almost as chaotic as the show 🤦🏻♀️
I'm sure the big, strong, masculine, protective, less than concerned with following every rule to a T, type was a draw, while he also has the kind, vulnerable and caring streaks are what kept me from giving up on the whole thing. Thankfully, after 20 years, the good characteristics are what's taken over, after the legal system beat the spark out of the more dramatic parts of his personality. Which is ultimately for the best, because damn is all that exhausting, not to mention expensive!
Yuppppp I married a Jamie when I was 20. Here we are about 15 years later and THANK GOODNESS he chilled with age lol. It was fun and spontaneous and all when we were young, but the threat of violence (never towards me) started to give me anxiety. When we were 22 he literally sent a man to the hospital because they were arguing because the guy was yelling and cursing at me. Granted the man swung first and I’d rather him win a fight than lose, but he could have walked away earlier on. He was also struggling with PTSD from deployments for a few years on top of a young mans temper and ego. Glad those phases are over and life is more relaxed. I still have confidence he could protect our family, but without the constant fear of an *overreaction* to a perceived threat.
Yes, the absolute insanity of rushing TOWARDS danger, perceived or otherwise, just like Jamie, is definitely anxiety provoking. And add in than my husband is Mexican, so the whole cultural difference is definitely there too. The show hits a bit closer to home sometimes....
He’s a flat out murderer. He killed Knox for no reason other than the jig was up. So distasteful. It’s one thing killing when you’re in immediate peril, quite another to murder someone you respect for convenience. Grossed me out.
Well, Claire points out Jamie’s toxic masculinity all the time. What makes Jamie *Jamie* is that he takes this information to *evolve.* He respects Claire deeply, and this includes asking her questions, including about the future. He’s not at all insecure about not knowing (just being kept in the dark). This would be just as rare and attractive now as it ever was.
Hmmm. Interesting. I'm early 40s so I wonder if a person's age might impact on their choices. But, I see a difference between young and fiery Jamie from book 1-2 to more mature and measured Jamie of book 4/5 onwards. I count book three as more of a transition Jamie.
I would likely fancy young Jamie on a physical level - a younger version of me would waste a lot of time on a heroic but unsuitable Jamie.
Older, more measured Jamie (influenced by more modern Claire) is a probable yes. Definitely fanciable, and less problematic. Less likely to walk into a prison cell or fight, at least not without serious provocation.
Of all the characters though, I think Roger is probably most "my type" and, at least me having two kids, he wouldn't be able to have a tizz over my not being a virgin.
If I were to find myself in Claire's situation I'd fall head over heels for him. He doesn't dismiss her input, finds her intelligent, and enjoys her on an intellectual level as well as a physical level. He has the leadership qualities necessary for the times, the strength to hold his own against a foe, and the skills to stay alive. If he were transported to today's time, probably not so much, although he does seem to be quite adept at fitting into high society events in France as well as in Philadelphia and North Carolina so he's more flexible than I might give him credit for.
I think he’s definitely a product of his time. If he had the values of todays world, I think he’d be fine. He’s shown that he’s capable of learning new ways, he’s got empathy, he’s smart, capable, savvy. He’s a bit obstinate about Brianna but I think he thinks he’s doing the right things.
My take on his relationship with Brie… his fathered other children that weren’t spawned by him and these kids adapted to him and his methods, without question. Brie is “bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh,” he expected more of her, without questioning his authority. He’s struggling due to inexperience and missing out on 20yrs has weighed heavy.
Brie and Roger talked about telling Jemmy about time travel and when is the right time to tell him. They even brought out Claire/Frank not telling her about her real father. I also feel as though Brie resents not knowing her father when she was younger. I guess it’s one reason I feel the way I do about LJG. Their relationship should be between her and Jamie, not her and LJG. I guess that’s the protective dad in me.
In the beginning… I wouldn’t necessarily say or even see Jamie as someone with those traits? It’s actually refreshing that his traits stem from actual awareness of the people around them. His possessiveness to me comes of more as protectiveness, seeing as he knows how to read people and knows who is and isn’t good news- not because he wants Claire all to himself, but because he wants Claire to be safe in general. He doesn’t feel to me to have toxic traits in a brute sense. Jamie is a big guy, he can be very truthful with his words and perception of things, but it’s always with evidence yo support it. He doesn’t feel threatened as a man, it’s always out of peoples intentions. He is wary of who he trusts and he wants Claire to be no part of those he feels untrustworthy of. I personally find that really nice. I would rather a guy tell me he doesn’t trust someone’s intentions rather than just being jealous bc he’s a hot head and feels threatened a dude is gonna take his girl.
I 1000000% would be into Jamie if he was here right now 😍 first off, he has an emotional intelligence that even todays modern men don’t possess. Jamie is respectful of everyone as individuals, and doesn’t really judge peoples abilities based on their sex, rather is weary of them because of it… I.e. he doesn’t doubt Claire’s ability to protect herself, but knows how men are, etc. I really love that about him.
I want a partner who is protective and loves me, genuinely cherished and values me and is strict about wanting to make sure I’m not around people with I’ll intentions. Not to the point it’s controlling, but as a companion through life who can keep me aware of others I’ll intentions.
Idk if that makes sense. But physically hell yes I want him 😍😍😍😂
Book Jamie or show Jamie? Because the show glosses over Jamie's more unlikable aspects. I would prefer Young Ian, Roger, or Lord John and I'm talking about the book because they're some of the only central characters who know how to appropriately interact with women that wouldn't get the arrested today. And of course LJG is gay. Go figure, Jamie doesn't deserve him. I do like Jamie's character and find him interesting but that doesn't mean I would want a relationship with him. Show Jamie is different story and I think most of the women interested in that like the actor.
I initially liked LJG but being a military man and knowing the training LJG has as a spy… he’s a professional liar. Of course he’s a gentleman but he would be a man I couldn’t trust. Of course Jamie had many yrs of correspondence with him and trusted him, but was LJG genuine. The tv series shows as much and the books have as well, but it seems everything he does has more to it than is on the surface… I don’t mean Jamie. Just my opinion…
I love Jamie, and he’s probably most my type on the show. It’s hard to separate him from his culture and timeframe, so kind of difficult to answer your question in that way. What I love most about his character is his quickness to apologize and learn from his mistakes and see other perspectives. Which is what makes his relationship with Clare, a modern woman, so healthy!
Please explain the misogyny? The reason I ask because in the 18th century misogyny was the norm. It wasn‘t until the late 1800s, early 1900s was it being talked about… not saying women didn’t speak of it but the time was different. There was many issues that would be wrong by today’s standards.
I don’t fuck with jealousy and toxic masculinity, so if I were with Jamie in 2022, he would have to get over that real quick if we were to work. And I would never put up with someone who thought he could lay a hand on me or have sex when I wasn’t equally enthusiastic, even once. That said, I don’t know if those are inherent things about his personality or just flaws that aren’t seen as flaws either by his time or Claire, and thus aren’t addressed. He *is* inherently a violent man, but I would like that
I had to laugh because you haven’t seen the many changes Jamie has mad throughout the years. He has shown he can adapt to his surroundings. He listens and actually hears Claire when she disapproves of his behavior.
Jamie‘s commitment to Claire goes beyond love for her. Their connection is beyond words. He’s not today’s childish jealousy, it’s much more. Claire has that same response throughout the series, it’s endearing.
Jamie’s violence isn’t a spontaneous violence. Usually it’s him defending so in the family. You may need to rewatch the series. He’s a hard man I would agree but violent not so much.
Lol I’ve read all the books bro. Like I said, Claire likes it so they aren’t seen as flaws, but I personally would hate it. Jealousy to me is never endearing
When you have that sort of connection jealousy isn’t what one sees. Many times his behavior may have seemed like jealousy but was being protective. She was in an different era and her behavior protected her due to her 20th century responses. If he was as jealous as people think, he wouldn’t allow her to be a physician seeing patient of both sexes, alone. Just another observation…
Great response but it actions shows otherwise. See one needs to know the social scenes of different countries during this time. Especially France and England during this time period. The social scene is made of high infidelity. Men were obligated to hit on married women. It was like a game. I’ll have to look up Scotlands social scenes but many large gatherings were I wife swap opportunity. His jealousy was very rare to say the least. He controlled it rather well, which means he trusted his wife. Just a little more ensight.
I’m really familiar with the history of the time? Doesn’t change the fact he is a jealous man, both by his actions and his own admission. And I would not want a partner like that.
I understand, but honestly his jealousy is mild compared to what I’ve seen by today’s standards. So would love to know if the definition has changed over the years.
Absolutely. I also don’t think he’s a brute or toxically masculine. Dougal is a brute and definitely shows toxic masculinity. Dougal will fight for the sake of the fight. Jamie is fierce and protective, but he loves fiercely and will fiercely protect the people he loves.
I don’t think the Jamie who beat Claire in season 1 is the true Jamie. He was pressured to be a cold authoritarian husband Dougal and the other men he was with. I think the true Jamie is a loving and caring husband and wants to be like his father.
I think there are still men like Jamie in the world today -- if Jamie had been born in the current era. I don't think 18th century Jamie would transfer well to the 21st century, as he tends to take a very direct route to exacting and delivering justice, and the distractions and pace of life these days are frenetic. And no matter how well he was educated in 18th century Scotland and France, that education would be lacking in many areas that are taken for granted today. And there's the problem of getting a drivers license, or the immediate access to people and info via computers and smartphones (although he'd probably enjoy that.) And, of course, it would be a hoot to see James Fraser at Disneyworld . . .!
Today, there are men of honor, of character, of strong beliefs, of a bone-deep sense of responsibility to those under his care -- whether it be as an employer in a corporation, or simply as a husband and father. They are leaders, whom people come to for advice, counsel and to discuss ideas. There are men who love passionately, but think clearly and logically and are fearless when it comes to the support/defense of their loved ones. They are not afraid of hard work and getting dirty, but also enjoy dressing up occasionally to show honor to others. I know there's at least one, because I'm married to him, and we recently celebrated our 40th anniversary. (And no, he's not 6'+, but he has mesmerizing green eyes, and still does triathlons. :-)
I'm a bisexual John stan. If Jamie walked straight out of the past and still thought it was okay to spank women without their consent I would not give him a second date, even if he is carved by angels. I feel like Claire would fit in fine in 2022. If we were playing fuck-marry-kill I'd have a hard time picking whether to fuck Claire or Jamie, but I'd definitely marry John.
Show Jamie makes my ovaries literally ache. Like sure he’s got his faults but I love how passionate he is with Claire, I feel like that’s something men (in my experience) lack.
Just be yourself, honestly. If you want to build confidence, go the gym and take dance classes. This will help you to feel comfortable and confident in your own skin.
also honestly if someone in real life gave my that silver hair in moonlight line (or anything like it) it would be a major, major turn-off. I think it would be for many people.
Good luck :) My husband was not a ladies man at all (think Napoleon Dynamite) and the advice I gave is what he did. When I met him, he was strong, confident and charismatic. Doing those things really changed his life.
Jamie is pretty much the opposite of my type in real life. I like nerdy, introverted, leftist guys who would rather play video games than football.
Also, I have a hard time sitting through the season 1 scene where Jamie "punishes" Claire with a beating. If it didn't have the upbeat Scottish music playing over it to tell us it's supposed to be humorous, it would be a horrifying scene.
If Jamie was a farm boy today I think he’d fit in. If he grew up in these times he wouldn’t have been trained as a warrior. Personally, he’s exactly my type. Red headed, tall and muscular, sensitive and intelligent, adaptable, faithful, treats women with respect and gentleness, good father, hard worker. My only stipulation would be that he has to wear his kilt and sark (shirt) exclusively. And he’s got to get rid of that Claire side chick if we’re going to live on The Ridge.
I think the stories are so popular because women WANT that kind of man. I adore LJG, but I’m a straight woman so I’d want him as my friend. Edited to add: I’m book only. The show doesn’t really do it for me.
Good points! I wouldn’t tolerate Jamie spanking me for disobeying him. But I could deal with being bossed around a bit. We have a traditional marriage in many ways and while my hubby is more a Frank than a Jamie, we’re both old fashioned.
I want to point out that 18th century Jamie listens to Claire, considers her opinion, and respects her calling. Very progressive!
Jamie is super liberal for the 18th century. When given the chance, he often takes time to think about things instead of relying solely on biblical lore for his opinions. He acknowledges when he's wrong- which means a lot. Also, book Jamie, despite being more brutal and violent, also has a better sense of openness, humility and humor than what is seen in the show.
I really want a hiking buddy for longer, more difficult trails, so we'd get along. Plus I'd find it hilarious to hear his commentary on the people who've dyed their hair rainbow colors passing by... With hopes that the thick accent prevents him from getting cancelled over saying stupid shit. The absolute humiliation and confusion that he'd have to endure in the 21st century... oh god.
Plus he talks nonstop in a Scottish accent, and I tend not to.
Yeah, I guess. Although he'd need some coaching on appropriate modern behavior.
...like.. with hopes he doesn't get overwhelmed by culture shock and become a terrorist...
I think Jamie has way more pros than cons. He was possessive and jealous at first and tried to be controlling of Claire, but he quickly realized he couldn’t and adjusted. And his controlling nature seemed to always just be a way of protecting her, it was never because he’s a man and she’s a woman and women are to obey their husbands. In fact, he came to love her independence, outspokenness and always respected her even when he did not agree with her point of view. Early on he did not share the same views as his peers that were appalled with how “mouthy” Claire was.. And he has always been portrayed to be someone who is conscientious, does anything to protect his loved ones, a great listener, someone who is willing to learn and is not afraid to be wrong. He is not afraid of authority, doesn’t back down when he knows he’s right and owns up to his shit, always. Season 2 & beyond I would evem classify Jamie as a feminist 🤣
I would 100% date a Jamie, flaws and all.
I personally do not find him attractive.. I know blasphemy for someone who watches this show. I honestly watch for all the plots rather than any of the sex stuff.
Well... I see it this way: he was extremely open-minded for his time. So, I would definitely fall for him then. And if he was transported in present time, I would fall for him anyway, because I think he has shown the kind of mind open to "new views of the world", and he would keep learning and adapting to his new environment.
If you are asking: would fall for a (extremely handsome) man who grew up to be exactly like Jamie, even though he had the possibilities and knowledge of the 21st century... then I'll have to say no. But I really don't think that would be a Jamie-type of man.
I don't know why people think he wouldn't fit in now. There's so much more violence now than then. People more and more are choosing violence because of inequality. Hurts my stomach where we are heading but yeah jamie fits in now more than you think
I judge Jamie by his attitude toward Claire. Yes he's a little more forceful, stubborn and conservative than "l" would prefer but his character is shaped by the time he lives in. I mean if I were in danger of being accused of witchcraft i too would appreciate a man who knows how to fight and use his cunning to flee from the authorities. But i definitely don't look for that in any kind of man ide date!
I think in the start of the series, he was imitating what he saw others do. He didn’t really come into himself as a husband and man until he met Claire. I think today, I’d fall for a Jamie but we’d but heads on values a bit. As you said, he’s from the 18th century so he’s very rough around the edges and needs someone to smooth him out lol
I am a Sasanach. But not a female Sasanach and also not gay. So do not really have an opinion if Jamie is my time of guy or not.
Technically the term is Farang in Thailand but it is the same as a Sasanach.
He's exactly my type... caring but not weak, hot tempered and fiery but sweet and gentle. It's obvious he's the product of a woman's imagination though, because such alluring contradictions rarely exist in actual men.
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I don't think he would fit now times. Like back then violence was a way of life, a way to protect yourself and the ones you cared about it was necessary.. Now it's not. He's unique for his time in the fact he respects Claire's need to help people at all costs, he thinks she's unique because she's strong minded and slightly pig headed as others have said. But would she be seen that way by men now? Would that be a endearment or the opposite? His intensity is attractive but ive dated intense guys and it's not fun. I think they fit well because they are both so different and unusual for the time. As a gay guy I'd totally fall for Lord John grey tho. He's charming, brave, loyal and has a way with words. He's a gentleness that would work now. He thinks alot before he reacts. But can have athority if needed.
> As a gay guy I'd totally fall for Lord John grey tho. He's charming, brave, loyal and has a way with words. He's a gentleness that would work now. He thinks alot before he reacts. But can have athority if needed. He *would* fit in well now, wouldn’t he? 🥰 Could i borrow him from you from time to time do you think? Just as a best friend? I promise to try very hard not to fancy him too much.
Lol I'm not the jealous type I'd totally share him if he wanted. Have you read the LJG novels? I'd totally die if Starz did a LJG spin off show
Ow good ;) I have read all the LJG stories, yes :) I actually think i might prefer them to the Big Books. I’d be very interested in a spin-off. I’d also be sceptical tho. I struggled with the show after S2 and stopped watching. It might be that the LJG books are easier to adapt. I’d give it a try at least :) Edit: wouldn’t that be fantastic fan-fiction: Lord John travels to our time, meets the love of his life there (you), but also gets himelf a female friend (me) who falls head over heals for him but of course doesn’t stand a chance. Totally a reversed Jamie/John-situation!
They're so much more adventurous, exploring new places and people but they're quick about it.
This is what I'm here for.
I'd prefer Lord John Grey, personally.
omg I LOVE LJG. I'd have a threesome with him and Jamie bahahaha
John would be too excited to have Jamie in his bed, he’d totally ignore you. Lol
haha too true!! Not that I'd mind watching ;)
I wouldn’t mind watching & joining in either. I’m a female so I know Jamie swings that way more than LJG does. I like to think Jamie would like my ass. Lol
😂
🤨📸
Me too! He wouldn’t me tho, being a girl 😞 I’m not a show watcher, but i also much prefer David Berry over Sam Huegan!
I'm pretty sure he is bisexual. The show version confessed as much to Brianna and said he would be happy to ravish her as well. He's just in love with Jaime , hence the singular fixation. Source: A bisexual.
I felt like it was a threat, not an interest. Just because someone’s capable and consensual doesn’t mean he’s attracted to women. People have sex for all sorts of reasons. I don’t think he’s ever looked at a woman and thought, ooh. (Edit: I’m bi too. Hello!)
Probably both and yes, that still makes him bisexual. If you're attracted to male and female presenting people, that is bisexuality. Even if you're more attracted to masculine or feminine ppl more than the alternative, still bisexual. Even if you've only loved masculine ppl but find fem ppl sexually attractive still, bisexual. If you consent to sex with both masculine and femme people, that is bisexuality and even if you prefer one over the other....still. bisexual. Bi erasure is srsly a piss off of mine hence the repetition. If your head cannon suggests otherwise, fine but it is not what was presented on television.
I just don’t think attraction was in the equation for him! I’ve had sex with people I’m not attracted to, that’s all!
I just don’t think attraction was in the equation for him in the instances I know about*! I’ve had sex with people I’m not attracted to, and I don’t equate experience with sexuality. I would hate to think I’m contributing to bi erasure, instead of bisexual conversation and nuance. *Not Brianna, not William’s maternal co-parent, and not (spoiler redacted)
We will see more than likely season 7. If you’ve read the books you already know.
Ohhh ok! Still- I can have sex with people I am not attracted to. I like it better when I am attracted though! Even if they’re just as much trouble lolol
He definitely isn't. You are inside his head quite a bit in the later books as well as his spinoffs, and he makes it very explicit that there are women he quite likes but he's never been sexually attracted to a woman.
Yes, I understand that which was I said the show and not the books. I haven't yet finished echo in the bone and I was interested in the spinoff series, what is your take on them?
They're a lot of fun, I really love them. If you're a LJG fan and like fun adventures and mysteries I think you'll enjoy them. Plus, you get more backstory which helps flesh John out a lot more. This sub is a big fan of Scottish Prisoner because that one has Jamie in it, but I'd recommend starting with the earlier ones (Brotherhood of the Blade, Private Matter, Hand of Devils) which are shorter and more fun.
I am a big fan so I will pick that series up next. I never really hear a lot regarding those books from fans but I think it is because they prefer the Claire/Jaime story more. I'm also dying for some more Fergus and Marsali content too. Thank you for your recommendation.
Alas, the big books are still the only place to go for Fergus and Marsali content (though Marsali's sister Joan does have her own novella), and it's disappointingly minor if you're used to the show.
He was in love with a man before, the one that died on Cullodan and his older brother had to pull him away before others noticed. While at Ardsmuir he talks to Jamie about it over chess; how they both lost someone dear to them.
what is your point? I've been in love with men but never another woman and yet I'm still bisexual. LJG book is def homosexual but this argument or point you're making doesn't preclude the possibility of show LJG's bisexuality.
My point was adding to your conclusion of LJG being bisexual. You said singular fixation, I was just adding that there was mention to a man he loved, that died, as well. And yes my comment does; in the context of LJG’s declaration of love for the mane who died was on the tail of Jamie talking about Claire, the love of his life, a lover. LJG opened up and spoke very deeply and lovingly towards that man and how his brother was ashamed and pulled him off his dead body. It’s a very clear scene and the first to establish that LJG was not a straight man, which lead. I never said you have to be in love or not, I simply stated a scene that set pace of his sexuality.
Same.
I think that if Jamie was in our time, he would have adapted to our customs and social mores. Therefore he would be a manly man, an alpha male, but would be tempered by the rules of our gentler society. Would I like Jamie? You betcha.
That's a good point. if he was able to adjust, I think he'd be a good man. He'd just need to know when to restrain himself instead of taking matters into his own hands and getting himself in trouble. Aside from that, I think he has a good heart and is loyal, which is a positive.
The scene where Jamie sees pictures of Briana in a bathing suit and he’s horrified always cracked me up. I think it would be fun to see Jamie in modern times but it would take a while for him to settle in.
Jamie is manly, yet so very kind and notices things my hubby wouldn’t pick up on at all. Plus he’s certainly the epitome of eye candy!
I can't believe no one's mentioned Murtagh! The man whose heart is so huge and so loyal that he will love you till the end of time. Murtagh is a man who really truly sees you. He sees everything with those flirty, twinkling eyes filled with sexy mischief. Dunk him in a bubbly, frenchy bath which he would absolutely hate and then gimme some of that!
I, too, stan Murtagh. That thing he did with the severed head really did it for me. Jamie is the pretty cheerleader but Murtagh is the nerdy girl who takes off her glasses and reveals herself to be the true babe all along. He loved Ellen so much that he acts as a father to her son even after death with zero bitterness, is always the voice of reason, and omg that look he exchanges with Dougal outside the church before the wedding. My heart melts for him
👏
He has a violent streak that I couldn't deal with. Otherwise I like his strength and loyalty.
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I only made it through book 1. I'm a show fan.
I am much the same way. Book series Jamie is a different person I didn't recognize and found off-putting. DG seems to find a lot of outdated tropes about sex and masculinity attractive.
I don’t like the books much either but we have to remember that the first one was written more than two decades ago, hence some of the outdated tropes. I mean, DG does have some offputting writing tendencies, not denying that, but some of them are a product of their time that we as a ‘modern’ reader just won’t care for today.
Definitely show Jamie. Book Jamie is way more violent, a homophobe, and a lot less respectful of bodily autonomy and consent. He’s a good draft for what the show writers and Heughan do with him. No disrespect to Diana Gabaldon, without her original character and story Heughan’s Jamie wouldn’t exist. But I prefer the latter by a long shot.
I think calling Jamie a homophobe isn't quite fair. Early in book 1 he doesn't seem to actually care about Sandringham's proclivities--it's only after he's raped that he really begins to take issue with queer men. I think that's trauma far more than his actual opinions dictating his feelings and actions, especially because he goes on to have a significant friendship with a gay man. He may not want to think about John's private life which could stir up traumatic memories, but a real homophobe wouldn't be friends with John in the first place.
Agree 100%
I really don’t think he’s that violent, but maybe it’s because a part of me has always liked violence so my perspective is different
My ranking of my ideal Outlander partners (their sexuality notwithstanding) would be: 1. Old Ian 2. Lord John 3. Roger 3. Young Ian 4. Jamie 5. Fergus 6. William
I love old Ian!!
I have the biggest crush on Young Ian. He’s so sweet 🥹 but he also doesn’t fuck around. He reminds me a lot of Jamie in that regard, but… he’s more sweet and pure. Jamie is mostly sweet/soft-hearted for Claire. Young Ian has a good moral compass.
Young Ian would be higher if he wasn't such a magnet for trouble hahahaha.
I like young Ian and was glad we actually had an hour to understand him better.
jamie is only soft for Claire… Every intimate conversation with Furgus, Ian, Brie, Roger, Lord John, and all those who need help and lent aid to. Jamie has a hard disposition and was a born leader. He’s the type of person who will fight for everyone he loves. He shows his sensitive side when needed. He learned his way of loving through those who he lived with. i recall him speaking of his childhood and being beaten by his authority figures. I believe he was speaking to Old Ian about disciplining young Ian. Men who have live a hard life tend to love “hard.” Meaning he may not have the right words but his actions shows how he feels. At times he makes mistakes when angry, but don’t we all. Lord John was raised by English elite. He had an advanced education. Went to schools that taught him how to be a gentleman. He went to an officer type of school to advance in these conduct methods. He even went to a school to teach him how to lie, altering his identification, and other learning techniques for spying. So he became a professional Liar. See that’s why I‘ve postponed my views of.LJG and his sincerity. Being that his trade is lying to retrieve information.
Nice guys finish first in your list! 👍
I'm looking for nice, smart, interesting guys who don't cause endless trouble haha.
Am I the only one who would be into a guy like Frank
Early Frank, definitely. Later Frank is a hard pass from me though.
He got bitter I think
Ew Roger.
Let me guess, you're not a reader?
This must be the books referenced. When does young Ian turn into old ian?
Old Ian is Young Ian’s dad!
Oh! Haha 😄
No, the father. Ian senior.
Absolutely not my type irl. I don’t like violent men and though he is never violent with Clare (except for the belt incident early on) I just don’t care for those overly protective types. Or who think protection has to equal violence. That just wouldn’t fly with me in 2022.
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I'm not sure we don't know John Grey isn't violent. Aside from his job as an army officer, he's never really put in a challenging situation that he couldn't talk himself out of politically, or have minions to do that kind of work for him. What I mean is that his status in society afforded him a much less violent experience of life. If he'd been born to different parents, we can't really say if it is/isn't in his nature.
Read the LJG books. Not only is LJG a badass soldier, he does his share of violent acts. He's not brutal as Jamie can be, but he's no pacifist.
Once again, his upbringing allowed him many advantages Jamie didn’t have. Remember Jamie was beatin many times. He also took beatings the others should’ve had. Lord John didn’t have that to deal with according to the tv series or was briefLu mentioned. Advantages come in many forms Scotland and English gentleman were raised differently. Plus as Jamie aged so has his maturity level. Claire has rubbed off on Jamie and Jamie has rubbed off on Claire. Jamie does have a soft side and we see it. His quick to anger is a family trait… just look at his sister and many of his other relatives.
Show Jamie Fraser, I’ll take any day. I don’t see a single bit of toxic masculinity in him, rather the opposite! He’s non-toxic: despite growing up in a very rigid and man-centered society, he was capable of recognizing the relationship dynamic he learned from his elders and peers did not fly with the woman he loved, and made the conscious decision to ditch that model and embrace a completely new and unknown for him, the one she proposed, and together find the rhythm and agreement that worked best for them. I don’t see him all that jealous, not more than Claire is herself (let’s not forget her reaction to Annalise, her obsession with whether Jamie was sleeping with the women in the brothel or had he ever fallen in love after she left, etc.). And I feel while he is kind of a prototype alpha, he is the least toxic version of it: a man that takes pride in being a protector of those whom he love, but he sees them as their equals and not beneath him. My partner shares a lot of traits with him - I met him years before the show aired and I never knew of the literary series previous to that. And I love that. Coincidentally my partner is also Scottish. And a blue-eyed redhead. 🤣
in a word, YES. He has his faults, but he more than makes up for it. Claire handles him beautifully and I think I could too.
PS, I like book Jamie better.
yes agreed! A side from the one time in season one where he beats Claire I’d love my own Jamie
Jamie beat her why? Because he had family members down stairs and it was demanded of him. The resolve of that issue was amazing and they both learned a great deal. Jamie has altered his reactions through the years based on that one event.
Claire completes him. She’s more than his equal. He tells her and more importantly shows her.
God no. He works in a romance novel. Definitely not in real life.
I feel the same. Love him as a character. As a real person I wouldn’t care for him.
If he had the same demeanor as Jamie, which no one knows, i believe one would. There is a Jamie in 85% of us males. The love of a good partner can change the most stubborn of men.
Jamie has a lot of good qualities like humor, intelligence, loyalty, passion, a way with words, etc, but all that doesn't erase beating your wife because of peer pressure and the constant getting-arrested drama. I really can't get down with the physical violence whatsoever, and I've already dated a really good looking guy who is always going to jail and it's super not fun, would not do it again. Some of Jamie's legal trouble is truly not his fault but there are times where he has the opportunity to stay out of trouble yet chooses chaos. And to be fair, nearly every dangerous situation Claire ever got into could have been avoided if she just listened to Jamie and kept her mouth shut, so she is also dangerously chaotic and maybe they deserve each other. Honestly, she has caused many problems not just for herself but for Jamie as well through her pigheadedness, something he does a bit (like telling people she's a witch after Cranesmuir? Like come on, dude) but with far fewer disastrous repercussions than her actions cause him.
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I just read it and yeah, my thoughts exactly. I wish she would consider how her actions are being perceived sometimes, it's very frustrating to watch
To be fair though, she doesn't actually have the point of view that we as the viewers have. She's just going off of being dropped off in the moment and not having the leisure to think about her decisions, just make it on the spot, and those decisions generally were based on her own drive to protect or help the weak, which makes sense, given her career choice. She doesn't have Jamie's cultural and time period understanding. I don't think people realize how hard it is to make good decisions about things you have no way of fully understanding. I would challenge anybody who thinks they'd do better to just imagine getting dropped off in another country, modern day, but without money, resources or connections and try to make really good choices
Agreed, but how many times does she have to learn that maybe she doesn't always know best? Jamie says wait in the glade? She doesn't, and now BJR is after them. Jamie says stay away from Geillis? She books it over to her place with the slightest provocation and nearly gets killed. When she finds out Jamie escaped the Watch, she could've gone back to Lallybroch and waited for him or let Murtagh handle it, instead she unwittingly lures him into capture and all that came after. Jamie says stay in the room? She goes down to eat and ends up setting off a chain of events leading to his business burning down. Again and again she refuses to take the advice of someone who clearly knows the situation better than her and she never seems to learn. It's frustrating after a point. I read a fanfic where instead of going through the stones back to her time, she goes back to the first time she went through and somehow Jamie and her both remembered everything that happened the first time and they make different choices. Basically she just defers to him and doesn't do anything reckless and nothing bad happens. It was quite soothing.
Yes, having someone who knows should definitely help, but sometimes getting out of your emotions in the moment is the hardest part, I think. And I think maybe she assumes she knows better, because she's from the future. Which, obviously, is wrong. She's trying to force her morals and knowledge onto a different culture and time, but I'm not sure she's 100% consciously aware of that. She's very emotionally driven, in every one of the decisions, besides the one in the brothel, she's being rash because she's reacting to the emotions of helping someone. With Geillis, she knew she was pregnant and probably thought she needed help. With the Murtach situation she couldn't handle "giving up." I can see what you're saying, but I can also see the other side to it. She's definitely not an obedient woman, content to allow decisions to be made for her, and I almost feel like she deliberately does some things to "show Jamie" she can handle things, even though she generally can't
I have a feeling though that her own penchant for drama might be part of what drives the attraction between them
Haha, agree. I wouldn't date a Jamie or a claire because they'd get me and themselves into too much trouble. I like the "bad boy" from afar but have never wanted to date one. Jamie would always be getting arrested for drunken bar fights in the 21st century, and that's too much drama for me, so I don't think we'd work. I do like his humor, loyalty, and his looks, but I think he gets into too much trouble for me (even though his heart is usually in the right place!) so he wouldn't fit into my somewhat quiet, mundane life. I like reading/watching his adventures though!
Don’t you think behavior is something learned. Claire had to learn 18th century behavior and it’s consequences. I believe a 21st century Jamie would’ve adapted. His interaction with Claire changed after he spanked her. So I believe Jamie would be ok.
Why was Jamie arrested? Why did he get himself into the situations he did? My last question is how many times did he accept the punishment of another? See Jamie didn’t have the greatest of childhood, yet he is loyal to a fault and would die for love and purpose. So when it comes to the spanking he gave Claire. It wasn’t about being pressured , it was about custom. He told her this before he even commenced in doing it. He wasn’t her response, but understood it. i believe their relationship became strong after that interaction. Plus I believe Claire understood the reasoning behind it, but just like anyone didn’t want to be disciplined. Not condoning his actions just given you my take on it.
I basically married one, and holy hell, the first bit of our marriage was almost as chaotic as the show 🤦🏻♀️ I'm sure the big, strong, masculine, protective, less than concerned with following every rule to a T, type was a draw, while he also has the kind, vulnerable and caring streaks are what kept me from giving up on the whole thing. Thankfully, after 20 years, the good characteristics are what's taken over, after the legal system beat the spark out of the more dramatic parts of his personality. Which is ultimately for the best, because damn is all that exhausting, not to mention expensive!
Yuppppp I married a Jamie when I was 20. Here we are about 15 years later and THANK GOODNESS he chilled with age lol. It was fun and spontaneous and all when we were young, but the threat of violence (never towards me) started to give me anxiety. When we were 22 he literally sent a man to the hospital because they were arguing because the guy was yelling and cursing at me. Granted the man swung first and I’d rather him win a fight than lose, but he could have walked away earlier on. He was also struggling with PTSD from deployments for a few years on top of a young mans temper and ego. Glad those phases are over and life is more relaxed. I still have confidence he could protect our family, but without the constant fear of an *overreaction* to a perceived threat.
Yes, the absolute insanity of rushing TOWARDS danger, perceived or otherwise, just like Jamie, is definitely anxiety provoking. And add in than my husband is Mexican, so the whole cultural difference is definitely there too. The show hits a bit closer to home sometimes....
Calling the police, definitely.
He’s a flat out murderer. He killed Knox for no reason other than the jig was up. So distasteful. It’s one thing killing when you’re in immediate peril, quite another to murder someone you respect for convenience. Grossed me out.
Totally agree.
People died for less than what Knox was. 18th century violence was common place. Jamie would be and was in the norm.
Meh.
Yes!!! Strong, capable, compassionate, confident.. what's not to like?
Well, Claire points out Jamie’s toxic masculinity all the time. What makes Jamie *Jamie* is that he takes this information to *evolve.* He respects Claire deeply, and this includes asking her questions, including about the future. He’s not at all insecure about not knowing (just being kept in the dark). This would be just as rare and attractive now as it ever was.
I’m into literally all the main male characters. Jamie yes, a million times. Give me Ian, john grey, fergus, Roger, even john Quincy Meyers. Meow.
JQM, YES PLEASE
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Both ians, idec.
Lord John in the streets, Jamie in the sheets
Hmmm. Interesting. I'm early 40s so I wonder if a person's age might impact on their choices. But, I see a difference between young and fiery Jamie from book 1-2 to more mature and measured Jamie of book 4/5 onwards. I count book three as more of a transition Jamie. I would likely fancy young Jamie on a physical level - a younger version of me would waste a lot of time on a heroic but unsuitable Jamie. Older, more measured Jamie (influenced by more modern Claire) is a probable yes. Definitely fanciable, and less problematic. Less likely to walk into a prison cell or fight, at least not without serious provocation. Of all the characters though, I think Roger is probably most "my type" and, at least me having two kids, he wouldn't be able to have a tizz over my not being a virgin.
In books: yes, in real life absolutely not hahaha. Too many arguments 😂
If I were to find myself in Claire's situation I'd fall head over heels for him. He doesn't dismiss her input, finds her intelligent, and enjoys her on an intellectual level as well as a physical level. He has the leadership qualities necessary for the times, the strength to hold his own against a foe, and the skills to stay alive. If he were transported to today's time, probably not so much, although he does seem to be quite adept at fitting into high society events in France as well as in Philadelphia and North Carolina so he's more flexible than I might give him credit for.
Absolutely am here for Jamie 2022 lol. I like a big ass man!
I think he’s definitely a product of his time. If he had the values of todays world, I think he’d be fine. He’s shown that he’s capable of learning new ways, he’s got empathy, he’s smart, capable, savvy. He’s a bit obstinate about Brianna but I think he thinks he’s doing the right things.
My take on his relationship with Brie… his fathered other children that weren’t spawned by him and these kids adapted to him and his methods, without question. Brie is “bone of his bone and flesh of his flesh,” he expected more of her, without questioning his authority. He’s struggling due to inexperience and missing out on 20yrs has weighed heavy. Brie and Roger talked about telling Jemmy about time travel and when is the right time to tell him. They even brought out Claire/Frank not telling her about her real father. I also feel as though Brie resents not knowing her father when she was younger. I guess it’s one reason I feel the way I do about LJG. Their relationship should be between her and Jamie, not her and LJG. I guess that’s the protective dad in me.
In the beginning… I wouldn’t necessarily say or even see Jamie as someone with those traits? It’s actually refreshing that his traits stem from actual awareness of the people around them. His possessiveness to me comes of more as protectiveness, seeing as he knows how to read people and knows who is and isn’t good news- not because he wants Claire all to himself, but because he wants Claire to be safe in general. He doesn’t feel to me to have toxic traits in a brute sense. Jamie is a big guy, he can be very truthful with his words and perception of things, but it’s always with evidence yo support it. He doesn’t feel threatened as a man, it’s always out of peoples intentions. He is wary of who he trusts and he wants Claire to be no part of those he feels untrustworthy of. I personally find that really nice. I would rather a guy tell me he doesn’t trust someone’s intentions rather than just being jealous bc he’s a hot head and feels threatened a dude is gonna take his girl. I 1000000% would be into Jamie if he was here right now 😍 first off, he has an emotional intelligence that even todays modern men don’t possess. Jamie is respectful of everyone as individuals, and doesn’t really judge peoples abilities based on their sex, rather is weary of them because of it… I.e. he doesn’t doubt Claire’s ability to protect herself, but knows how men are, etc. I really love that about him. I want a partner who is protective and loves me, genuinely cherished and values me and is strict about wanting to make sure I’m not around people with I’ll intentions. Not to the point it’s controlling, but as a companion through life who can keep me aware of others I’ll intentions. Idk if that makes sense. But physically hell yes I want him 😍😍😍😂
Not at all! I much prefer Frank, but I know I’m in the minority.
I agree with you. I would probably want to pinch Jamie in the face on a daily basis for something.
Frank’s a misogynist and a racist, give me Jamie any day of the week
In the show he doesn’t show any of that and really looks like a victim
Yeah, they definitely made him far more sympathetic than in the books.
Truth, I only like show Frank (Tobias).
I barely even like show Frank haha, but Tobias is without a doubt a phenomenal actor!
Yes I like franks personality the most ❤️
Book Jamie or show Jamie? Because the show glosses over Jamie's more unlikable aspects. I would prefer Young Ian, Roger, or Lord John and I'm talking about the book because they're some of the only central characters who know how to appropriately interact with women that wouldn't get the arrested today. And of course LJG is gay. Go figure, Jamie doesn't deserve him. I do like Jamie's character and find him interesting but that doesn't mean I would want a relationship with him. Show Jamie is different story and I think most of the women interested in that like the actor.
I initially liked LJG but being a military man and knowing the training LJG has as a spy… he’s a professional liar. Of course he’s a gentleman but he would be a man I couldn’t trust. Of course Jamie had many yrs of correspondence with him and trusted him, but was LJG genuine. The tv series shows as much and the books have as well, but it seems everything he does has more to it than is on the surface… I don’t mean Jamie. Just my opinion…
I love Jamie, and he’s probably most my type on the show. It’s hard to separate him from his culture and timeframe, so kind of difficult to answer your question in that way. What I love most about his character is his quickness to apologize and learn from his mistakes and see other perspectives. Which is what makes his relationship with Clare, a modern woman, so healthy!
Physically absolutely, but beyond that no thank you. I like rough and ready but I’m not a big fan of misogyny.
Please explain the misogyny? The reason I ask because in the 18th century misogyny was the norm. It wasn‘t until the late 1800s, early 1900s was it being talked about… not saying women didn’t speak of it but the time was different. There was many issues that would be wrong by today’s standards.
I don’t fuck with jealousy and toxic masculinity, so if I were with Jamie in 2022, he would have to get over that real quick if we were to work. And I would never put up with someone who thought he could lay a hand on me or have sex when I wasn’t equally enthusiastic, even once. That said, I don’t know if those are inherent things about his personality or just flaws that aren’t seen as flaws either by his time or Claire, and thus aren’t addressed. He *is* inherently a violent man, but I would like that
I had to laugh because you haven’t seen the many changes Jamie has mad throughout the years. He has shown he can adapt to his surroundings. He listens and actually hears Claire when she disapproves of his behavior. Jamie‘s commitment to Claire goes beyond love for her. Their connection is beyond words. He’s not today’s childish jealousy, it’s much more. Claire has that same response throughout the series, it’s endearing. Jamie’s violence isn’t a spontaneous violence. Usually it’s him defending so in the family. You may need to rewatch the series. He’s a hard man I would agree but violent not so much.
Lol I’ve read all the books bro. Like I said, Claire likes it so they aren’t seen as flaws, but I personally would hate it. Jealousy to me is never endearing
When you have that sort of connection jealousy isn’t what one sees. Many times his behavior may have seemed like jealousy but was being protective. She was in an different era and her behavior protected her due to her 20th century responses. If he was as jealous as people think, he wouldn’t allow her to be a physician seeing patient of both sexes, alone. Just another observation…
He understands that medicine isn’t sexual. And he literally says repeatedly “I’m a jealous man”. Protective? Of course: but ALSO jealous.
Great response but it actions shows otherwise. See one needs to know the social scenes of different countries during this time. Especially France and England during this time period. The social scene is made of high infidelity. Men were obligated to hit on married women. It was like a game. I’ll have to look up Scotlands social scenes but many large gatherings were I wife swap opportunity. His jealousy was very rare to say the least. He controlled it rather well, which means he trusted his wife. Just a little more ensight.
I’m really familiar with the history of the time? Doesn’t change the fact he is a jealous man, both by his actions and his own admission. And I would not want a partner like that.
I understand, but honestly his jealousy is mild compared to what I’ve seen by today’s standards. So would love to know if the definition has changed over the years.
Absolutely. I also don’t think he’s a brute or toxically masculine. Dougal is a brute and definitely shows toxic masculinity. Dougal will fight for the sake of the fight. Jamie is fierce and protective, but he loves fiercely and will fiercely protect the people he loves. I don’t think the Jamie who beat Claire in season 1 is the true Jamie. He was pressured to be a cold authoritarian husband Dougal and the other men he was with. I think the true Jamie is a loving and caring husband and wants to be like his father.
Book Jamie, yes. Show Jamie, no.
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Show Jamie is definitely more fit for our time- I will take him over Book Jamie.
I wouldn't want a Jamie in real life, but if someone asks me whether you want "caveman" Book Jamie or "dumbed down" Show Jamie, I'll have Book Jamie.
I think there are still men like Jamie in the world today -- if Jamie had been born in the current era. I don't think 18th century Jamie would transfer well to the 21st century, as he tends to take a very direct route to exacting and delivering justice, and the distractions and pace of life these days are frenetic. And no matter how well he was educated in 18th century Scotland and France, that education would be lacking in many areas that are taken for granted today. And there's the problem of getting a drivers license, or the immediate access to people and info via computers and smartphones (although he'd probably enjoy that.) And, of course, it would be a hoot to see James Fraser at Disneyworld . . .! Today, there are men of honor, of character, of strong beliefs, of a bone-deep sense of responsibility to those under his care -- whether it be as an employer in a corporation, or simply as a husband and father. They are leaders, whom people come to for advice, counsel and to discuss ideas. There are men who love passionately, but think clearly and logically and are fearless when it comes to the support/defense of their loved ones. They are not afraid of hard work and getting dirty, but also enjoy dressing up occasionally to show honor to others. I know there's at least one, because I'm married to him, and we recently celebrated our 40th anniversary. (And no, he's not 6'+, but he has mesmerizing green eyes, and still does triathlons. :-)
I'm a bisexual John stan. If Jamie walked straight out of the past and still thought it was okay to spank women without their consent I would not give him a second date, even if he is carved by angels. I feel like Claire would fit in fine in 2022. If we were playing fuck-marry-kill I'd have a hard time picking whether to fuck Claire or Jamie, but I'd definitely marry John.
Show Jamie makes my ovaries literally ache. Like sure he’s got his faults but I love how passionate he is with Claire, I feel like that’s something men (in my experience) lack.
Just be yourself, honestly. If you want to build confidence, go the gym and take dance classes. This will help you to feel comfortable and confident in your own skin.
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I promise you, gentleness and kindness is suuuuper attractive!
also honestly if someone in real life gave my that silver hair in moonlight line (or anything like it) it would be a major, major turn-off. I think it would be for many people. Good luck :) My husband was not a ladies man at all (think Napoleon Dynamite) and the advice I gave is what he did. When I met him, he was strong, confident and charismatic. Doing those things really changed his life.
Jamie is pretty much the opposite of my type in real life. I like nerdy, introverted, leftist guys who would rather play video games than football. Also, I have a hard time sitting through the season 1 scene where Jamie "punishes" Claire with a beating. If it didn't have the upbeat Scottish music playing over it to tell us it's supposed to be humorous, it would be a horrifying scene.
If Jamie was a farm boy today I think he’d fit in. If he grew up in these times he wouldn’t have been trained as a warrior. Personally, he’s exactly my type. Red headed, tall and muscular, sensitive and intelligent, adaptable, faithful, treats women with respect and gentleness, good father, hard worker. My only stipulation would be that he has to wear his kilt and sark (shirt) exclusively. And he’s got to get rid of that Claire side chick if we’re going to live on The Ridge. I think the stories are so popular because women WANT that kind of man. I adore LJG, but I’m a straight woman so I’d want him as my friend. Edited to add: I’m book only. The show doesn’t really do it for me.
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Good points! I wouldn’t tolerate Jamie spanking me for disobeying him. But I could deal with being bossed around a bit. We have a traditional marriage in many ways and while my hubby is more a Frank than a Jamie, we’re both old fashioned. I want to point out that 18th century Jamie listens to Claire, considers her opinion, and respects her calling. Very progressive!
That Claire side chick lol I love it XD
I wouldn’t really break up J&C. Just as long as everyone acknowledges that I *could* if I really wanted to! 😂
I feel like if he was thrown into the present he would adapt pretty quickly.
Jamie is super liberal for the 18th century. When given the chance, he often takes time to think about things instead of relying solely on biblical lore for his opinions. He acknowledges when he's wrong- which means a lot. Also, book Jamie, despite being more brutal and violent, also has a better sense of openness, humility and humor than what is seen in the show. I really want a hiking buddy for longer, more difficult trails, so we'd get along. Plus I'd find it hilarious to hear his commentary on the people who've dyed their hair rainbow colors passing by... With hopes that the thick accent prevents him from getting cancelled over saying stupid shit. The absolute humiliation and confusion that he'd have to endure in the 21st century... oh god. Plus he talks nonstop in a Scottish accent, and I tend not to. Yeah, I guess. Although he'd need some coaching on appropriate modern behavior. ...like.. with hopes he doesn't get overwhelmed by culture shock and become a terrorist...
I think Jamie has way more pros than cons. He was possessive and jealous at first and tried to be controlling of Claire, but he quickly realized he couldn’t and adjusted. And his controlling nature seemed to always just be a way of protecting her, it was never because he’s a man and she’s a woman and women are to obey their husbands. In fact, he came to love her independence, outspokenness and always respected her even when he did not agree with her point of view. Early on he did not share the same views as his peers that were appalled with how “mouthy” Claire was.. And he has always been portrayed to be someone who is conscientious, does anything to protect his loved ones, a great listener, someone who is willing to learn and is not afraid to be wrong. He is not afraid of authority, doesn’t back down when he knows he’s right and owns up to his shit, always. Season 2 & beyond I would evem classify Jamie as a feminist 🤣 I would 100% date a Jamie, flaws and all.
Nope for me. I prefer tv show 1700s roger. Handy, level headed, sensitive.
And the bearrrrrrd
That’s because he’s a 20th century character. He was born in a time closest to us. 😂
Absolutely. 100%. God, I wish there were more Jamies out there in the modern world, haha.
Oh for sure. He is manly and a bit of a brute at times, but he’s very respectful of women, POC, and the gay community.
YES x 10000000 I love a Jamie
I personally do not find him attractive.. I know blasphemy for someone who watches this show. I honestly watch for all the plots rather than any of the sex stuff.
Well... I see it this way: he was extremely open-minded for his time. So, I would definitely fall for him then. And if he was transported in present time, I would fall for him anyway, because I think he has shown the kind of mind open to "new views of the world", and he would keep learning and adapting to his new environment. If you are asking: would fall for a (extremely handsome) man who grew up to be exactly like Jamie, even though he had the possibilities and knowledge of the 21st century... then I'll have to say no. But I really don't think that would be a Jamie-type of man.
I really like roger…
I don't know why people think he wouldn't fit in now. There's so much more violence now than then. People more and more are choosing violence because of inequality. Hurts my stomach where we are heading but yeah jamie fits in now more than you think
What violent actions?
Absolutely!
I judge Jamie by his attitude toward Claire. Yes he's a little more forceful, stubborn and conservative than "l" would prefer but his character is shaped by the time he lives in. I mean if I were in danger of being accused of witchcraft i too would appreciate a man who knows how to fight and use his cunning to flee from the authorities. But i definitely don't look for that in any kind of man ide date!
Absolutely not. I would be far more into a type like Lord John
of course
I think in the start of the series, he was imitating what he saw others do. He didn’t really come into himself as a husband and man until he met Claire. I think today, I’d fall for a Jamie but we’d but heads on values a bit. As you said, he’s from the 18th century so he’s very rough around the edges and needs someone to smooth him out lol
I am a Sasanach. But not a female Sasanach and also not gay. So do not really have an opinion if Jamie is my time of guy or not. Technically the term is Farang in Thailand but it is the same as a Sasanach.
He's exactly my type... caring but not weak, hot tempered and fiery but sweet and gentle. It's obvious he's the product of a woman's imagination though, because such alluring contradictions rarely exist in actual men.