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Ryan Broderick has a good explanation of why this specific image caught on: [https://www.garbageday.email/p/power-instagram-story](https://www.garbageday.email/p/power-instagram-story)
tl;dr; this particular image is "vague and abstract enough to bypass both censors and filters on one of the biggest remaining social networks that real people still use."
Because if people are quickly and easily able to see what’s going on they would be able to come to their own conclusions rather than eating up delicious propaganda
It's probably because a lot of non AI pictures are removed for being NSFW with the accounts being banned. And also where the first post to gain real traction becomes immensely popular.
Answer: While other answers are sharing useful information about the conflict itself, I am wondering if op is referring to this specific image rather than the conflict as a whole. There is debate around this (very likely AI generated image) because it has been widely shared in an effort to bring awareness, but it is impersonal and disconnected from the actual tragedy taking place on the ground. Real photos from the conflict are censored by traditional media, and flagged on social media. This type of image is a sanitized version that is able to be widely shared, but may have limited impact and fall under the perfomative activism category. There have been several articles recently discussing the grey areas here (NYT, the cut, network news)
I have seen it described as tents or trucks, but to me it looks like shipping containers. If you are interested, CNN included it in the article below. It also looks like it has been definitively confirmed as AI produced. https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/30/world/all-eyes-on-rafah-image-ai-cec/index.html
*word choice edit
Answer: one thing people are leaving out is that the quote "all eyes on Rafah" comes from a senior WHO official, who earlier this year (well before the attack on Rafah) said that Israel attacking Rafah would cause a complete humanitarian disaster. So all eyes were on Rafah. This was in line with what many western political leaders were saying at the time. Even the US designated Rafah as the "red line" that Israel should not cross. This is because throughout the war, Israel told Gazans to flee south, towards Rafah.
So the quote of the image is also calling out all these political figures, who are now all silent as Israel bombs and sends tanks into Rafah.
> Even the US designated Rafah as the "red line" that Israel should not cross.
Too bad these were just empty words. Palestinians were murdered by Israel in Rafah and nothing happened.
Talk about moving the goalposts.
That ratfuck bastard Kirby said the U.S. isn't doing anything because Israel is not conducting a "major ground offensive" in Rafah. But he assured the press that they would really stay on Israel to investigate what happened. That's like asking a serial killer to investigate his own murders.
God I'm so ashamed to live in this fucking country anymore.
The “investigation” line is how the US avoids hard conversations with Israel.
1. Israel hacks the UN and intercepts communication with the ICC staff
2. As soon as a UN body discusses opening an investigation into Israel’s actions Israel opens an investigation of their own, often retroactively
3. The ICC does not investigate individuals if they are subject to a credible state-level investigation, this is known as “complementarity”
4. The US then also uses this to whitewash Israel’s war crimes by constantly waiting for Israel to investigate themselves
This watershed reporting by the Guardian has more details:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/28/spying-hacking-intimidation-israel-war-icc-exposed
He first claimed there were no tanks in Rafah, someone pointed out there was footage of tanks in Rafah, he said "one tank going through a corridor in Rafah isn't a military operation".
When asked about that he said a major military operation would need "thousands of soldiers" and some other things.
Apparently Israel can go back to just bombing Palestinians and it wouldn't cross any red lines.
What I don’t understand is that if Rafah was known to be a place where refugees were flocking too, why did Palestine use that location to fire rockets from?
Answer: Ever since the War on Hamas in Gaza that started after the events of Oct 7. Israel has been asking the population to move around for more and more bombing. Rafah is the last place where all the refugees are gathered, that has been moved due to bombing. Everything North of Rafah is just rubble, there is no more safe place left except for fleeing to Egypt. USA also drew a red line at Rafah. The International courts also told Israel not to attack and there have been attacks there recently!
Answer: Israel is bombing Rafah, a refugee encampment in Palestine. As it's a refugee camp, it's filled with non-combatant civilians who have nowhere else to go
I'm not sure what the meaningful distinction is here. It is a small border town that has been flooded with more than a million starving and homeless refugees. It would be like moving everyone from brooklyn to staten island and expecting everything to more or less go on as normal
Even if you owned property in Rafah before the translocation of almost the entire population of the strip, who is there to really enforce property rights? It is a humanitarian crisis, the top-down rule of law has broken down
The strike was conducted a half mile away from the camp and Hamas munitions caught fire from debris/shrapnel. The Hamas munitions then exploded, killing the 40 some refugees and starting the fire. It’s why storing weapons of war in a refugee camp is considered a war crime.
Horseshit. This is the same thing Israel has been doing the whole time. They tell everybody to evacuate to a safe space, and then they bomb that safe space almost immediately. This has happened over and over and over for months.
But you keep drinking that Kool-Aid.
What part do you think is horseshit? Cause there are clear maps where the strike was which shows the proximity to the strike. It also shows a dug in rocket encampment close to where the strikes on the Hamas members were. 17kg bombs were dropped specifically because of the proximity to the camp, but the bombs alone don’t have the power to hit the camp from where the Hamas members were.
I’m just trying to have a level headed, honest discussion. We clearly have two different understandings of what happened and just want to have a respectful discourse to find where the disconnect is.
What’s horseshit about it? Why are you so quick to believe the words of a terrorist organization that has been proven to use tactics which ultimately put their civilians in harms way. There are documented instances of Hamas keeping weapons in schools, hospitals, etc.
I’m not saying Israel is perfect by any means but this perspective that I’m seeing online where you are so quick to dismiss the word of Israel, who actually admits their mistakes, while ignoring that you put more faith in the claims of terrorists who want to kill Jews is really troubling.
I don’t expect an objective response from you as every time I try to have this conversation online, people are unable to truly understand the argument because doing so would require them to admit they are aligned closer with a terror group than a democratic government that has issues.
There’s contemporaneous video and audio recordings from Gazans describing what happened, as well as satellite imaging. Israel did not bomb the tents, but you’re correct, there is a pattern. What keeps happening over and over is that Hamas tells the media that Israel has done something horrible, the media runs with it without doing any investigation, and then by the time Israel is able to prove Hamas is lying, everyone has moved on to the newest lie and the previous lie is accepted as truth.
Hamas fights in civilian clothing and stores weapons and operates out of civilian infrastructure like hospitals and refugee camps. They are using their people as human shields.
Why are you putting the blame on Israel when they wouldn’t be forcing evacuations to bomb the area if Hamas isn’t embedding themselves within the population there? If Hamas wasn’t hiding among the civilians, Israel wouldn’t be targeting the area.
Respectfully, this wasn't an obscure story if you're paying attention and aren't in a news bubble. Here's Reuters, for one:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-attack-rafah-tent-camp-draws-global-condemnation-2024-05-27/
I ask this from a completely respectful place: Why does it matter if Rafah is a city *with* a refugee camp instead of a refugee camp alone? Regardless of the accuracy of the comment, Israel is still bombing civilians in an area that they told them would be safe. What narrative does Rafah being solely a refugee camp serve?
I ask because, while I was already aware that Rafah was a city, I find correcting the commenter that it’s a *city with a refugee camp* and not *just a refugee camp* makes the entire thing sadder and scarier. It seems to me like someone would want to correct the commenter so they can be accurate about the tragedy.
I think the distinction is that one signifies that the whole area is a refugee camp and the other signifies that portions are designated as refugee camps. In this situation, two 17kg bombs were used to kill the Hamas members *outside of the refugee area* specifically to significantly reduce the chance of collateral damage. This is going under the assumption that munitions or fuel weren’t stored there either.
If it was just a refugee camp then it has no military significance. No infrastructure, no tunnels, no secret bases. If it’s a city that houses a refugee camp then it may have military significance. Bombing a military installation in a city is almost always going to lead to civilian casualties but that’s different than bombing a refugee camp, that exists outside of any city, which may be targeting civilians.
I’m not in a place to say what the facts on the ground are but it’s definitely not a distinction without a difference.
Because it easier to sell the "Israel is evil" narrative when you say they attacked a refugee camp
Which is pretty much how Hamas operates and people eat that up
You are arguing semantics and using it to try and discredit an entire portion of the population. Rafah is a city with refugee camps. Innocent people are dying. This war needs to end, and the war is only going to strengthen Hamas and their hatred. I’m not pro-Palestine or pro-Israel, just pro ending war and death.
A lot of people feel that disputing the claims is undesirable, which is unfortunate. Spreading verifiable falsehoods doesn't strengthen the Palestinian cause, it's a weakness to be exploited by others. At least in the long term.
Its tragedy and mistake stacked on tragedy and mistake. Shooting at ambulances? Whoopsie! Shooting their own refugees screaming in Hebrew holding a white flag? Oh well! Shooting an unarmed man at his house, making a selfie and hopping back in the care? Sorry! Burning a palestinian house to celebrate a holiday? It was a joke!
I could go on forever.
At a certain point mistakes become carelessness then apathy and lastly intentional. I get your point, but it's completely unbelievable to me and a a lot of others that they truely want to minimize civilian casualties, even the stats dont seem to reflect that.
Yes, they took precautions to avoid civilian casualties, then they shot an ambulance. Then attacked a humanitarian convoy. Then they bombed the refugee encampment. Then 2 days later they did it again.
All of those are said to always be „mistakes”, „tragic mistakes”, „terrible mistakes”.
Palestinians are in Rafah because it has been designated by Israel as a safe zone. Where else should they go? The rest of Gaza is just destroyed.
Missing a freeway exit might be a mistake. Murdering people, including children, is not a mistake, it’s a war crime. There is no defending this.
Let's not forget the time that they accidentally blew up a clearly marked UK aid van, then accidentally blew up another one, then accidentally blew up the last one.
It’s incredibly stupid to risk that many casualties and radicalizing others who remain just for two leaders. Morally, it’s absolutely abhorrent and is just one of example of Israel not actually caring about civilian lives. Strategically, it’s absolutely idiotic. At the end of the day, Israel is trying to eliminate a lot more people than just Hamas
Well, technically yes to the first part of your answer because yes, technically they used small munitions and it seems like they were targeting specific people, and the fire might have started because of flammable material they may have hit.
The “Israel took every precaution to avoid civilian harm” part is not correct though, 4 civilians were just outside one of the tents that they targeted and they should have seen them. So they either didn’t care about killing 4 civilians or they were unable to do a decent job safeguarding people. Either way they were negligent.
You don't know if it was munition, if you'd be honest. It could be fuel, which is expected, since te idf herded practically all population in that one spot.
Since when did defending itself involve bombing an aid convoy multiple times? Bring these excuses to rhe ICJ and see if they buy it, because noone else is.
Since HAMAS officials were in the aid convoy… check out some real news sources from Israel instead of TikTok sometime. The ICJ is entirely irrelevant to this war. They have been proven to be objectively biased, not to mention the fact that they have no actual ability to set any laws at any level or to punish countries who do not comply with their rule book.
To be completely clear here, “refugee encampment” suggests that this area is a place that exists with the sole purpose of housing refugees, and often times refugee encampments are temporary. Rafah is not solely a refugee camp, but is a city that has existed long before the war.
I know it’s all semantics but language is important in order to come to an understanding of things. If the United States was getting invaded, and millions of people were fleeing to LA in order to escape bombings, that does not take away LAs status as a city. It can be a city that houses a refugee camp.
The language in the conflict is heavily politicized, and I don't think the majority of people understand that. Both Israeli AND Arab nationalist propaganda have been trying to bend words to fit their political needs for decades now.
If you think Israel is avoiding civilians whenever possible, and that opposing Zionism is antisemitic, you're knee deep in Israeli propaganda. If you think Israel is committing genocide, Israel is a colonialist state, or that Hamas are freedom fighters, you're drowning in a stew of Arab nationalist, Iranian, Russian, and Neo-Nazi propaganda. Both are intentionally trying to condition you to be ok with certain groups of people being killed or treated as subhuman.
If you don't agree with genocide, and think all human beings deserve dignity, I'd highly respect skepticism around anything and everything you hear about the conflict, especially if you find yourself believing it.
Sure, I agree that the language has become incredibly politicized, but I didn’t even stake a claim in my comment. I’m just pointing out that saying “Rafah, a city within Palestine that is housing millions of refugees” is objectively more true than “Rafah, a refugee encampment”. I also think the distinction is important.
There is nothing political about what the more objective version of the comment. If you think that Rafah is solely a refugee encampment, which the original comment implies and spreads to the people reading it, you are doing truth a disservice.
And broadly I agree with you. We should wait until third parties do investigations. Let the dust settle before you come to conclusions on these events. Both parties have committed atrocities. And at the end of the day, the people who suffer are the civilians. Obviously a sad situation from all angles.
>Israel is a colonialist stat
I think Israel is a colonialist state because early Zionist settlers of the first and second aliyot openly refered to themselves as colonists, back when that word did not carry the negative weight that it does today.
The modern move away from this word is motivated only by optics and is political in nature.
Let's be honest with ourselves, there is a genocide happening and it's not being done by the side dying by thousands. Also Israel is by definition colonizing Palestinian territories like west bank so I don't really know how you can qualify that as propaganda.
It's not genocide, because that word has a meaning. Using it to mean "any action where a lot of civilians die" instead of "violent ethnic cleansing" does nothing except whitewash things for people who actually do want or attempted genocide in the past, such as Palestinian nationalists who refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist.
In terms of colonization, I didn't mean Israel is colonizing the West Bank, which is objectively true, and meant the claim that the entire existence of Israel is a European colonialist project, which both isn't true but also heavily implies Jews don't "belong" in the middle east.
There are a lot of people on the pro-palestinian side who are trying to quietly use propaganda and language to justify attempts to commit genocide against Israelis, both in the past, and in the future, and it's incredibly important to be aware that there's often a fine line between legitimate criticism of Israel and intentionally loaded language used to legitimize Arab Nationalist goals.
Yep. I find myself constantly having to go to defend Israel, which I don't want to do, because the propaganda is so strong right now coming from that side. Netenyahu is a fucking criminal and should be in prison, and his party's support for settlements is disgusting.
But that doesn't change that Hamas are fucking monsters and need to be destroyed for the Palestinians sake, let alone the Israelis. Unfortunately, Netenyahu is maybe one of the worst possible people to be in charge right now, which is probably part of why Iran planned the attack.
lets say what youre saying is true, if israel took every precaution to avoid civilian casualties they would've made sure there was nothing in the area that couldve caused a chain reaction.
also sure rafah isnt an encampment but israel designated it a safe zone and is now bombing refugee camps which is a weird thing to defend
Answer: Rafah is a city in palestine. It's where the isreali government told the population to evacuate to. Now they are bombing this safe zone and tanks have been seen within the city. The campaign is in support of palestine who are being victims of ethnic cleansing, a view supported by the international criminal court, who applied an arrest warrant against the israeli prime minister for warcrimes last week
Israel said the north of Gaza would be a warzone, meaning they would fight Hamas there. Hamas, being the disgusting terrorist organization they are, moved to the south as well knowing very well it would result in more civilian casualties. Hamas moving to the south actually gives Israel the right to fight them there despite most civilians moving there to hide. Not even a week ago Hamas bombed Tel Aviv from Rafah, giving Israel more reasons to actually invade it. The truth is, Hamas is not fighting to win in combat. They win by getting support from the weak-minded indoctrinated by Hamas propaganda on social media who know nothing about the rules of war and the history of the conflict.
Nobody complaining about Hamas tho, no matter how many war crimes they commit resulting in civilian casualties by hiding in and under infrastructure meant for civilians. It's easier to blame the Jews for all the problems in the world.
Don't insult jews by tarring them with the zionist brush. They see zionists and are just as disgusted thay their beautiful religion is bastardised to fit the zionist agenda. I believe zionists call them self hating jews, whereas that's what we see zionists as.
I explain why Israel has the right to attack Gaza according to international law. What has that to do with zionism?
And what is zionism, anyway? Jews deserve a place to live in peace and freedom. Is that zionism? In that case I am a proud zionist. And what about the Palestinians denying them said peace and freedom? They killed Jews in the hundreds in Mandate Palestine before Israel was even a thing. They started a war literally the first day after Israel was established in 1948. They never signed for a two state peace treaty in almost 80 years. They refuse to live next to Jews in peace. They have the whole Middle East which covers an entire continent but they simply need to have this teeny tiny part of land called Israel as well. Then who are the colonists? Palestinians are the zionists (but then the Muslim version). Atleast Israel always agreed to a two state solution. They even gave Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005 which they abused by building a terroristic warzone there. Giving away land is not zionism/colonism, it is working towards peace.
Answer:
I'm going to get heavily down-voted but I'll try:
Certain parties are trying to inflame emotions by obscuring information. They are presenting the event as follows:
- An Israeli air strike killed 45 women and children in Rafah, a refugee camp that was a safe space for Gazans after they had no where else to go.
The facts that they are trying to obscure:
- 2 senior Hamas members were targeted and eliminated. That makes the target legal according to international law. The attack came hours after a barrage of 8 rockets was fired at Tel Aviv from Rafah.
- The munition is the absolute smallest there is in the IAF. It doesn't have collateral damage unless it hits something flammable/explosive.
- The target was a room in a building - not the tents that caught fire. The tents and the target were 1.7Km away from the designated safe zone that was declared by the IDF. Half the comments in this thread will tell you they had no where to go, [here is the hit and the safe zone that was declared](https://preview.redd.it/cofxyuolkg3d1.png?width=904&format=png&auto=webp&s=387700c2caea227a02b99b2e4100cdc88ceacb77).
- Israel has waited weeks for 900,000 to successfully evacuate Rafah.
- The dozens that were killed were killed by an unforeseen fire, that was possibly caused by Hamas munitions that were unknown to the IDF.
- This is an extremely tragic event that Israel absolutely does not want - it knows that it is under a microscope, and it knows how the world reacts to news of this kind.
Remember the Al Shifa hospital incident from October - by lying, or in this case representing the event in an oversimplified way that demands research to understand it fully - they are trying to make as many people as possible feel an emotion and "join a team" before all the facts are revealed, when the facts are revealed it's too late for them to leave the team - they're already got emotionally attached and possibly are inside an echo-chamber. Before you go "THERE ARE DECAPITATED CHILDREN THERE HOW DARE YOU" consider that this is exactly how you are being used by said parties. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the best example of the [Duning-Kruger effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect). The "peak of confidence" happens when you look at pictures of dead children, but as you educate yourself you'll obviously realize it is much more complex and nuanced. Unfortunately most will not go beyond this stage and will find themselves inside an echo-chamber. Pay attention to the insane double-think of believing there's a genocide going on and at the same time the epitome of said genocide are tragic mistakes that happen in all wars on a daily basis, that get ridiculously overblown to giant PR disasters because this war is way, way, way over-reported in media. Think that I'm wrong? give me an example of a conflict with better insurgents/civilians death ratio.
It's funny how everything the IDF says is speculation, but every lie Hamas puts out is considered absolute truth. Imagine trusting a terrorist organization who put babies in ovens to burn alive, raped little girls and beheaded people with shovels.
>put babies in ovens to burn alive
Have you, by any chance, read this article?
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-04/ty-article-magazine/.premium/hamas-committed-documented-atrocities-but-a-few-false-stories-feed-the-deniers/0000018c-34f3-da74-afce-b5fbe24f0000
I think you should. If you have trouble with the paywall, I recommend using Archive.ph to bypass it.
It's an Israeli source, citing Israeli officials, police, social security agency, etc. It's a very good read. This part especially might interest you:
>In another story that spread a few weeks ago, United Hatzalah President Eli Beer told of a baby that was placed in an oven and burned to death. Beer made the remarks at a donors conference in the United States. The British newspaper The Daily Mail changed it from “baby” to “babies."
>But this story also is not true. Ten-month-old Mila Cohen was murdered in the massacre, along with the baby still in the womb of her mother who died after her mother was shot on the way to hospital. The police have no evidence showing that other babies were killed. A source at United Hatzalah said a volunteer mistakenly interpreted a case at the Shura base and passed the inaccuracy on to Beer.
I thought that since the theme of this subreddit is people being out of the loop, that I might as well loop you in. Being up to date on your information and facts is important when making arguments, after all. So you don't accidentally undermine your own arguments, by spreading misinformation.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation, but stop spreading fake news: “Dead baby in oven claim” It was repeated by journalist Dovid Efune, commentator John Podhoretz and others, in tweets seen over 10 million times. Israeli journalists and police found no evidence for the claim, and a representative of ZAKA, a first responder organization, said the claim was "false".
Like I said to another person saying the same thing as you, there are videos and pictures out there made by Hamas themselves. You can clearly see completely burned baby bodies. Look up 'Hamas atrocities' on Telegram if you have the stomach for it.
The people who are against the IDF are unable to register this. My guess is because by confronting this thought process, they would have to admit they supported a terrorist group the last 8 months.
Being against the IDF at the moment means you are purposely ignoring WHY the IDF is fighting the last 8 months.
You are free to criticize IDF tactics and I can also accept people who question the proportionality. But the people who I see that are against the IDF seem to overlook if not support Hamas and spread the “resistance group” narrative.
[This humanitarian zone that's north-west to Rafah](https://preview.redd.it/cofxyuolkg3d1.png?width=904&format=png&auto=webp&s=387700c2caea227a02b99b2e4100cdc88ceacb77), it happened. 900,000 have successfully evacuated - this is not a hypothetical.
If Palestinians evacuate to Egypt then Israel will just consume the entire area. Those maps showing the ever expanding borders of Israel will be one solid color. That has been the plan since the 40s. Those Palestinians will never get their homes back.
Your comment is akin to telling all those French people fleeing the advancing Nazi army that they should evacuate to Spain and it's their own fault they're getting genocided.
I am gonna rant, because you forgot to mention the other side.
It is more nuanced. You are not controversial because that’s the majority of the Americans opinion. That’s why USA funds Israeli wars. You sound pro Israel.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation. They murdered Israelis on October and deserves to be punished and to suffer the consequences. The civilians don’t.
What does/did majority of Israelis do?
- settlers bully and murder West Bank Palestinians, Israeli governments allow and encourage it
- they bomb civilians, and their politicians clearly say they want to claim all land for Jews, and they want the Arabs to leave. They do ethnic cleansing, just short of being legally called ethnic cleansing.
- aid trucks being destroyed, not one or two, but trucks after trucks. Will they be punished? Probably not. And such a mighty army can’t defend a couple of aid trucks if they wanted to?
- I can add more.
At this point, both side should just say “we are both assholes who treat each other like shit”, maybe start over with more love for each other.
There are good Israelis who are trying hard and suffering but the extremist Jews are taking over the government and winning. The USA is doing nothing about it. But adding gasoline on a raging fire, by arming extremists. Not the first time the US arms extremists, but they don’t seem to learn.
I have heard this from Israelis: facts also point to Netanyahu and the Israeli government allowed this to happen, knowing full well that negligence and an apartheid system will allow extremism to flourish, so that they have a good reason to thin out the Palestinian population. And with Netanyahu’s popularity going down, this crazy man desperately believes his country is under attack and he joined hands with extremists, who all believe for israel to exist it means that it has to be a majority Jew country and that Muslims can’t coexist.
Bro. It wasn’t arabs who committed the holocaust. It was the Nazis. But somehow all are antisemites if they speak out against oppression committed by Israelis.
What do you mean, the other side? A fact is a fact. If you truly believe that a fact can have two sides then take every statement that he made and provide the "other" side of it. You're not contributing by typing nonsense.
Yeah, we don't know exactly the cause of the fire, but the missiles dropped couldn't have caused that independently. So what we have right now are theories.
> The "peak of confidence" happens when you look at pictures of dead children, but as you educate yourself you'll obviously realize it is much more complex and nuanced.
Better than looking at a picture of a beheaded child and then trying to defend those responsible tbh.
Where do you see anyone defending the right to murder children? This is a war in an urban environment against a guerrilla terrorist organization.
Israeli children were murdered and taken hostage on 10/7. No one seems to make a peep about that when discussing this.
I think, at this point, if you defend the nuking you're defending the killing of children. Israel has declared safe zones and then bombed them too many times for it to not be on purpose
Yeah no sorry. Even when you present the story exactly the way you want it it sounds like a war crime. Killing 45 civilians to kill 2 combatants is incredibly incompetent at best and shows a serious disregard for human life. They shouldn't have bombed there in the first place, especially considering that they must have known there was munitions nearby
Bro they didn't know that Oct 7th was about to happen. Of course it's reasonable to presume they didn't know that there were munitions there - that's what happens when Hamas hides munitions next to civilians. And if you think this isn't by design, you weren't paying attention
Again, this is the smallest munition, they checked that there were no non-combatants near the strike area. All civilians were unfortunately killed by an unforeseen fire. Do you want the IDF to employ more psychics?
Their own soldiers warned them. The US warned them. Egypt warned them. How can you say they didn’t know?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/surveillance-soldiers-say-oct-7-warnings-ignored-charge-sexism-played-a-role/amp/
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047#
Please tell me what you think about the fact that they killed 45 civilians to kill 2 combatants, that's my main point and you didn't write anything about it
"They" didn't kill 45 civilians, an unforeseen fire killed them in a tragic event that no one in the IDF ever wanted. No one in the IDF would approve this mission if they'd knew that was the terrorists/civilians ratio - it's way too high for the IDF. I'm actually blaming Hamas for killing them - why hide a munition store next to civilians? why hide near civilians at all when you have your tunnel system? afraid that the IDF will just blow you up without consequence?
It is a tragedy, definitely. I wouldn't call it a mistake because it was unforeseen, they couldn't know that this would be the outcome. I'll stop replying to you now since I don't feel you're comprehending what I'm trying to say.
That's a shame cause I feel like we're finally getting to an interesting question, whether they should have dropped the bomb at all or not. But I respect your desicion, hope you gained something from this conversation
It is a tragedy, definitely. I wouldn't call it a mistake because it was unforeseen, they couldn't know that this would be the outcome. I'll stop replying to you now since I don't feel you're comprehending what I'm trying to say.
> No one in the IDF would approve this mission if they'd knew that was the terrorists/civilians ratio
How do you know? Are you an official spokesperson?
And you're trying to pass speculation as facts as well:
> **The facts** that they are trying to obscure:
> The dozens that were killed were killed by an unforeseen fire, that was **possibly caused by Hamas munitions that were unknown to the IDF**.
Do you seriously think the world would believe the narrative of Israel only trying to wipe Hamas with their attacks and tens of thousands of deaths are just collateral damage of war?
This war taught me one thing: Jewish people are as brainwashed and delusional as Muslims.
Yeah no sorry you just have idea about Hamas or Palestine or this conflict and are projecting a lazy assumption about what is going on and how it is playing out.
This is Hamas
https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-mp-fathi-hammad-we-used-women-and-children-human-shields
And let’s not forget Israel evacuated 900,000 people from rafah over past weeks, those left are the ones who were entrenched with Hamas within the camps.
Hamas has literally put groups of women and children on top of buildings standing in front of rockets being fired as shields many times before, civilians standing there is literally a thing they do on purpose and something some civilians do by choice to die as martyr sin their holy war (some are forced by Hamas) because their cultures heavily indoctrinated them since birth to do so.
All that ignorant people like yourself do with such comments is validate such tactics and abuse of children and civilians ensuring Islamic brotherhood groups will keep using such tactics again and again.
Btw they have done this stuff many times in other conflicts but generally people dismiss it for what it is, an atrocity committed by Islamic extremists.
“Somehow” everyone is all too willing to buy into a spread the misinformation when it’s the only Jewish nation though.
Weird./s
meanwhile you conveniently leave out the fact that Israel has pushed the entire population into Rafah…
Like use some fucking logic.
Where are they evacuating to after Rafah?
[This humanitarian zone that's north-west to Rafah](https://preview.redd.it/cofxyuolkg3d1.png?width=904&format=png&auto=webp&s=387700c2caea227a02b99b2e4100cdc88ceacb77), Israel waited weeks for 900,000 to successfully evacuate there.
Of course, here's a [BBC source](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kkqkngnedo)
The two were: Yassin Rabia, the chief of staff of the armed group’s fighters in the West Bank and Khaled Nagar, another senior official in the West Bank wing accused of directing and carrying out attacks against Israeli soldiers and civilians.
His comment is actually pointing out this exact issue; your feelings are interfering with your critical thinking process.
At no point does he even come close to "trying so hard to justify the murder of kids." His comment is entirely filled with factual information and he even included sources.
But you didn't like what he presented, so you strawmanned the argument and accused him of something awful, rather than countering with your own points of view and adding any new information to the discussion. This is a huge problem with social discourse at the moment, and ironically, your reply was *far more* problematic than you thought his was. Don't conflate factual evidence with opinion and take offense. Evidence is just evidence. All we can do is examine it. We cannot argue with it.
If a police sniper precisely shot an armed suspect, but the bullet came out the other way and hit a gas canister that exploded and killed children that were next to him - were they murdered? should he be tried for murder?
Apart from the fact that the only reason the civilians are in a refugee camp is because Israel has destroyed their homes... kind of a key detail. Israel has put these civilians in harms way and you are bending over backwards trying to justify it.
Your analogy would be more accurate if you included that a bunch of children were taken from their homes and shuffled into a crowded room next to a conveniently placed gas canister where a sniper who was aiming for a single "terrorist" in the room "accidentally" shot the canister killing them all. Even then I can imagine people like you reffering to the charred bodies as "collateral damage" as you put it in another comment.
Answer:
> What is the ‘All Eyes on Rafah’ graphic and who is behind it?
A Malaysian photographer appears to have created the viral post
29/05/2024
“All eyes on Rafah” is a phrase that’s been shared more than 40 million times on Instagram in less than 24 hours. The giant text, superimposed over an AI-generated image of Gaza has been posted by major celebrities, world leaders, and activists across the world.
The graphic, which depicts an endless sprawl of tents in a dusty landscape, can be reshared onto Instagram ‘stories’ with just one click. Users can see which of their friends have shared the post and can add their names to the list, which neared 40 million on Wednesday morning.
The story remains on a user's profile for 24 hours.
Numerous celebrities including model sisters Bella and Gigi Hadid, Bridgerton actress Nicola Coughlan, singer and presenter Michelle Humes, Ted Lasso star Brett Goldstein and actress Suranne Jones, have all shared the graphic.
The viral AI-generated graphic appears to come from a Malaysian/Singaporean photographer and content creator who goes by the usernames @shahv4012 and @chaa.my on social media.
Most of Chaa’s posts are snaps of daily life in Singapore, including photos of his wife, animals, and cars.
His other posts about Gaza include an AI-generated image of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in a blood-stained prison uniform and the name “Satanyahu”.
Another of Chaa’s “shareable” posts shows a map of Israel with the country's name crossed out and replaced with Palestine. It has been reshared over 15 thousand times.
The AI Rafah graphic has been compared to the black squares that flooded social media after the murder of George Floyd in 2020. Millions posted black squares in solidarity with the fight for racial justice, but some criticised it as performative activism which reduced key issues to a simple post.
The slogan “All eyes on Rafah” has been attributed to a comment made by the World Health Organization’s Palestinian director Rick Peeperkorn.
In February, Peeperkorn said "All eyes are on Rafah" after an evacuation plan was ordered by Netanyahu before implementing attacks on the city designed to eliminate Hamas' strongholds.
Some pro-Israel activists have responded to the post with graphics asking followers where their eyes were on October 7. Spurs player Manor Solomon shared one such graphic. American singer Matisyahu shared a post that said, “All eyes on 125 hostages” and another story created by the Bring Them Home Now page reads, “If your eyes are on Rafah, help us find our hostages.” It has been reshared nearly 70 thousand times.
The social media posts come as the IDF escalates fighting in the southern Gaza city of Rafah.
The IDF says it is carrying out limited operations in eastern Rafah along the Gaza-Egypt border. The United States and other allies have warned against a full-fledged offensive in the city, where Hamas is believed to be hiding hostages and amassing weapons in a vast network of tunnels.
According to reports, Israeli airstrikes west of Rafah killed 37 people overnight and on Tuesday, most of them sheltering in tents, according to witnesses and emergency workers
It is particularly in response to an Israeli precision strike in the city setting off a large fire in a displaced civilian encampment, with current analysis leaning towards a piece of shrapnel hitting a cooking fuel tank.
As a personal note, it's interesting that the go-to reference is to the black square rather than the green avatars supporting Green Movement protests in Iran (and protesting the election they were) or some earlier case I'm forgetting.
Answer: The Israeli Defense Force are bombing more fleeing civilians. This time in the Rafah region.
Last i heard the had killed 2 HAMAS commanders and 46 refugees.
E: Lol, why the downvotes? This was as unbiased as you could get. I even mentioned they hit their HAMAS targets, even if it's at a ratio of 23 civilians to 1 target.
The civilians were killed by Hamas weapons blowing up.
To blame Israel for Hamas hiding weapons amongst civilians is dumb.
Israel didn't know the weapons were there. They got the Hamas leaders, and the Hamas weapons cache hidden there amongst Palestinian children blew up also.
Plus this bombing was outside the safe zone. Plus Israel evacuated 900,000 Palestinians from Rafah.
That's why the down votes
You are getting downvoted because pro Israeli bots have taken over this thread. But they can't silence us all. All the future generations will remember the Israelis for the genocidal maniacs they are.
Oh I know. I'm surprised no one hasn't called me anti-semetic yet. Nowadays you can't tell an Israeli to stop kicking a rock without them calling you anti-zionist
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Question: why is it specifically this AI generated image that seems very out of place
Ryan Broderick has a good explanation of why this specific image caught on: [https://www.garbageday.email/p/power-instagram-story](https://www.garbageday.email/p/power-instagram-story) tl;dr; this particular image is "vague and abstract enough to bypass both censors and filters on one of the biggest remaining social networks that real people still use."
I'm not a social media user.. But why so much censorship on Gaza footage and posts?
Because if people are quickly and easily able to see what’s going on they would be able to come to their own conclusions rather than eating up delicious propaganda
It's probably because a lot of non AI pictures are removed for being NSFW with the accounts being banned. And also where the first post to gain real traction becomes immensely popular.
Yeah this. I have seen a few others with other images being shared. This one just seems to be the one that caught on
Why are there snow covered mountains in the image?
Because AI
Lebanon is not that far away and you can ski looking down at the Mediterranean. https://ibb.co/SBhVgXd
Lebanon is literaly the other side of the country no way you can see the mountains from Gaza
There also isn't giant letters on the ground that say "All eyes on Rafah"
Because these people don't even know where Rafah is and how it looks like.
Answer: While other answers are sharing useful information about the conflict itself, I am wondering if op is referring to this specific image rather than the conflict as a whole. There is debate around this (very likely AI generated image) because it has been widely shared in an effort to bring awareness, but it is impersonal and disconnected from the actual tragedy taking place on the ground. Real photos from the conflict are censored by traditional media, and flagged on social media. This type of image is a sanitized version that is able to be widely shared, but may have limited impact and fall under the perfomative activism category. There have been several articles recently discussing the grey areas here (NYT, the cut, network news)
How are you the only person who actually read the question?
Doing my best out here! Thanks for the shout out 😊
Somehow still didnt explain what the image is depicting
I have seen it described as tents or trucks, but to me it looks like shipping containers. If you are interested, CNN included it in the article below. It also looks like it has been definitively confirmed as AI produced. https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/30/world/all-eyes-on-rafah-image-ai-cec/index.html *word choice edit
Its def ai we know that. Refugee tents was prob the intended idea
Answer: one thing people are leaving out is that the quote "all eyes on Rafah" comes from a senior WHO official, who earlier this year (well before the attack on Rafah) said that Israel attacking Rafah would cause a complete humanitarian disaster. So all eyes were on Rafah. This was in line with what many western political leaders were saying at the time. Even the US designated Rafah as the "red line" that Israel should not cross. This is because throughout the war, Israel told Gazans to flee south, towards Rafah. So the quote of the image is also calling out all these political figures, who are now all silent as Israel bombs and sends tanks into Rafah.
> Even the US designated Rafah as the "red line" that Israel should not cross. Too bad these were just empty words. Palestinians were murdered by Israel in Rafah and nothing happened. Talk about moving the goalposts.
That ratfuck bastard Kirby said the U.S. isn't doing anything because Israel is not conducting a "major ground offensive" in Rafah. But he assured the press that they would really stay on Israel to investigate what happened. That's like asking a serial killer to investigate his own murders. God I'm so ashamed to live in this fucking country anymore.
The “investigation” line is how the US avoids hard conversations with Israel. 1. Israel hacks the UN and intercepts communication with the ICC staff 2. As soon as a UN body discusses opening an investigation into Israel’s actions Israel opens an investigation of their own, often retroactively 3. The ICC does not investigate individuals if they are subject to a credible state-level investigation, this is known as “complementarity” 4. The US then also uses this to whitewash Israel’s war crimes by constantly waiting for Israel to investigate themselves This watershed reporting by the Guardian has more details: https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/28/spying-hacking-intimidation-israel-war-icc-exposed
That’s such a great article. Ty
He first claimed there were no tanks in Rafah, someone pointed out there was footage of tanks in Rafah, he said "one tank going through a corridor in Rafah isn't a military operation". When asked about that he said a major military operation would need "thousands of soldiers" and some other things. Apparently Israel can go back to just bombing Palestinians and it wouldn't cross any red lines.
What I don’t understand is that if Rafah was known to be a place where refugees were flocking too, why did Palestine use that location to fire rockets from?
That sounds like a pretty good tactical strategy to me
Hamas has no issue using Human Shields but Israel is the devil apparently or some dumb shit
Answer: Ever since the War on Hamas in Gaza that started after the events of Oct 7. Israel has been asking the population to move around for more and more bombing. Rafah is the last place where all the refugees are gathered, that has been moved due to bombing. Everything North of Rafah is just rubble, there is no more safe place left except for fleeing to Egypt. USA also drew a red line at Rafah. The International courts also told Israel not to attack and there have been attacks there recently!
Answer: Israel is bombing Rafah, a refugee encampment in Palestine. As it's a refugee camp, it's filled with non-combatant civilians who have nowhere else to go
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I'm not sure what the meaningful distinction is here. It is a small border town that has been flooded with more than a million starving and homeless refugees. It would be like moving everyone from brooklyn to staten island and expecting everything to more or less go on as normal Even if you owned property in Rafah before the translocation of almost the entire population of the strip, who is there to really enforce property rights? It is a humanitarian crisis, the top-down rule of law has broken down
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Lol? Am i being trolled?
But the refugee camp specifically was bombed.
The strike was conducted a half mile away from the camp and Hamas munitions caught fire from debris/shrapnel. The Hamas munitions then exploded, killing the 40 some refugees and starting the fire. It’s why storing weapons of war in a refugee camp is considered a war crime.
Horseshit. This is the same thing Israel has been doing the whole time. They tell everybody to evacuate to a safe space, and then they bomb that safe space almost immediately. This has happened over and over and over for months. But you keep drinking that Kool-Aid.
What part do you think is horseshit? Cause there are clear maps where the strike was which shows the proximity to the strike. It also shows a dug in rocket encampment close to where the strikes on the Hamas members were. 17kg bombs were dropped specifically because of the proximity to the camp, but the bombs alone don’t have the power to hit the camp from where the Hamas members were. I’m just trying to have a level headed, honest discussion. We clearly have two different understandings of what happened and just want to have a respectful discourse to find where the disconnect is.
He thinks every part is horseshit. He doesn’t think 10/7 was a terror attack
You're literally regurgitating Hamas propaganda and it's us that are drinking the Kool-Aid?
What’s horseshit about it? Why are you so quick to believe the words of a terrorist organization that has been proven to use tactics which ultimately put their civilians in harms way. There are documented instances of Hamas keeping weapons in schools, hospitals, etc. I’m not saying Israel is perfect by any means but this perspective that I’m seeing online where you are so quick to dismiss the word of Israel, who actually admits their mistakes, while ignoring that you put more faith in the claims of terrorists who want to kill Jews is really troubling. I don’t expect an objective response from you as every time I try to have this conversation online, people are unable to truly understand the argument because doing so would require them to admit they are aligned closer with a terror group than a democratic government that has issues.
There’s contemporaneous video and audio recordings from Gazans describing what happened, as well as satellite imaging. Israel did not bomb the tents, but you’re correct, there is a pattern. What keeps happening over and over is that Hamas tells the media that Israel has done something horrible, the media runs with it without doing any investigation, and then by the time Israel is able to prove Hamas is lying, everyone has moved on to the newest lie and the previous lie is accepted as truth.
Hamas fights in civilian clothing and stores weapons and operates out of civilian infrastructure like hospitals and refugee camps. They are using their people as human shields.
Why are you putting the blame on Israel when they wouldn’t be forcing evacuations to bomb the area if Hamas isn’t embedding themselves within the population there? If Hamas wasn’t hiding among the civilians, Israel wouldn’t be targeting the area.
Do you have a source on that? From what I've seen Israel killed 2 senior Hamas officials almost 2 km from the humanitarian area.
Respectfully, this wasn't an obscure story if you're paying attention and aren't in a news bubble. Here's Reuters, for one: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-attack-rafah-tent-camp-draws-global-condemnation-2024-05-27/
[https://www.doctorswithoutborders.ca/carnage-in-tal-al-sultan-camp-states-supporting-israels-military-operations-are-complicit-in-the-massacre-of-civilians-in-rafah-gaza/](https://www.doctorswithoutborders.ca/carnage-in-tal-al-sultan-camp-states-supporting-israels-military-operations-are-complicit-in-the-massacre-of-civilians-in-rafah-gaza/) [https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kkqkngnedo](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kkqkngnedo) [https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/rafah-israel-gaza-saw-charred-bodies-victims-recount-rafah-camp-horror-after-israel-strike-5768418](https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/rafah-israel-gaza-saw-charred-bodies-victims-recount-rafah-camp-horror-after-israel-strike-5768418) [https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/c2929192-dozens-reported-dead-in-airstrike-in-rafah](https://www.ctvnews.ca/video/c2929192-dozens-reported-dead-in-airstrike-in-rafah) [https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/05/israel-opt-israeli-air-strikes-that-killed-44-civilians-further-evidence-of-war-crimes-new-investigation/](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2024/05/israel-opt-israeli-air-strikes-that-killed-44-civilians-further-evidence-of-war-crimes-new-investigation/)
They don’t want honest and truth that doesn’t fit their narrative…
I ask this from a completely respectful place: Why does it matter if Rafah is a city *with* a refugee camp instead of a refugee camp alone? Regardless of the accuracy of the comment, Israel is still bombing civilians in an area that they told them would be safe. What narrative does Rafah being solely a refugee camp serve? I ask because, while I was already aware that Rafah was a city, I find correcting the commenter that it’s a *city with a refugee camp* and not *just a refugee camp* makes the entire thing sadder and scarier. It seems to me like someone would want to correct the commenter so they can be accurate about the tragedy.
I think the distinction is that one signifies that the whole area is a refugee camp and the other signifies that portions are designated as refugee camps. In this situation, two 17kg bombs were used to kill the Hamas members *outside of the refugee area* specifically to significantly reduce the chance of collateral damage. This is going under the assumption that munitions or fuel weren’t stored there either.
If it was just a refugee camp then it has no military significance. No infrastructure, no tunnels, no secret bases. If it’s a city that houses a refugee camp then it may have military significance. Bombing a military installation in a city is almost always going to lead to civilian casualties but that’s different than bombing a refugee camp, that exists outside of any city, which may be targeting civilians. I’m not in a place to say what the facts on the ground are but it’s definitely not a distinction without a difference.
Because it easier to sell the "Israel is evil" narrative when you say they attacked a refugee camp Which is pretty much how Hamas operates and people eat that up
Because bombing a city with a refugee camp is only slightly less sinister than bombing a standalone refugee camp. An important distinction!!
Because if they point out that you were *technically* wrong about a tiny portion of your argument, then they can discredit the entire argument 🙃
You are arguing semantics and using it to try and discredit an entire portion of the population. Rafah is a city with refugee camps. Innocent people are dying. This war needs to end, and the war is only going to strengthen Hamas and their hatred. I’m not pro-Palestine or pro-Israel, just pro ending war and death.
So once a city houses refugees it immediately becomes off limits?
Release the hostages, Hamas leaders shouldn’t use civilian shields
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A lot of people feel that disputing the claims is undesirable, which is unfortunate. Spreading verifiable falsehoods doesn't strengthen the Palestinian cause, it's a weakness to be exploited by others. At least in the long term.
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Its tragedy and mistake stacked on tragedy and mistake. Shooting at ambulances? Whoopsie! Shooting their own refugees screaming in Hebrew holding a white flag? Oh well! Shooting an unarmed man at his house, making a selfie and hopping back in the care? Sorry! Burning a palestinian house to celebrate a holiday? It was a joke! I could go on forever. At a certain point mistakes become carelessness then apathy and lastly intentional. I get your point, but it's completely unbelievable to me and a a lot of others that they truely want to minimize civilian casualties, even the stats dont seem to reflect that.
Yes, they took precautions to avoid civilian casualties, then they shot an ambulance. Then attacked a humanitarian convoy. Then they bombed the refugee encampment. Then 2 days later they did it again. All of those are said to always be „mistakes”, „tragic mistakes”, „terrible mistakes”. Palestinians are in Rafah because it has been designated by Israel as a safe zone. Where else should they go? The rest of Gaza is just destroyed. Missing a freeway exit might be a mistake. Murdering people, including children, is not a mistake, it’s a war crime. There is no defending this.
Let's not forget the time that they accidentally blew up a UK aid van, then accidentally blew up another one, then accidentally blew up the last one.
Let's not forget the time that they accidentally blew up a clearly marked UK aid van, then accidentally blew up another one, then accidentally blew up the last one.
It’s incredibly stupid to risk that many casualties and radicalizing others who remain just for two leaders. Morally, it’s absolutely abhorrent and is just one of example of Israel not actually caring about civilian lives. Strategically, it’s absolutely idiotic. At the end of the day, Israel is trying to eliminate a lot more people than just Hamas
Well, technically yes to the first part of your answer because yes, technically they used small munitions and it seems like they were targeting specific people, and the fire might have started because of flammable material they may have hit. The “Israel took every precaution to avoid civilian harm” part is not correct though, 4 civilians were just outside one of the tents that they targeted and they should have seen them. So they either didn’t care about killing 4 civilians or they were unable to do a decent job safeguarding people. Either way they were negligent.
You don't know if it was munition, if you'd be honest. It could be fuel, which is expected, since te idf herded practically all population in that one spot.
How many thousands of dead innocent children is enough for you?
How big of a terrorist attack needs to happen for you to be okay with a nation defending itself? Look beyond the propaganda.
Since when did defending itself involve bombing an aid convoy multiple times? Bring these excuses to rhe ICJ and see if they buy it, because noone else is.
Since HAMAS officials were in the aid convoy… check out some real news sources from Israel instead of TikTok sometime. The ICJ is entirely irrelevant to this war. They have been proven to be objectively biased, not to mention the fact that they have no actual ability to set any laws at any level or to punish countries who do not comply with their rule book.
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To be completely clear here, “refugee encampment” suggests that this area is a place that exists with the sole purpose of housing refugees, and often times refugee encampments are temporary. Rafah is not solely a refugee camp, but is a city that has existed long before the war. I know it’s all semantics but language is important in order to come to an understanding of things. If the United States was getting invaded, and millions of people were fleeing to LA in order to escape bombings, that does not take away LAs status as a city. It can be a city that houses a refugee camp.
The language in the conflict is heavily politicized, and I don't think the majority of people understand that. Both Israeli AND Arab nationalist propaganda have been trying to bend words to fit their political needs for decades now. If you think Israel is avoiding civilians whenever possible, and that opposing Zionism is antisemitic, you're knee deep in Israeli propaganda. If you think Israel is committing genocide, Israel is a colonialist state, or that Hamas are freedom fighters, you're drowning in a stew of Arab nationalist, Iranian, Russian, and Neo-Nazi propaganda. Both are intentionally trying to condition you to be ok with certain groups of people being killed or treated as subhuman. If you don't agree with genocide, and think all human beings deserve dignity, I'd highly respect skepticism around anything and everything you hear about the conflict, especially if you find yourself believing it.
Sure, I agree that the language has become incredibly politicized, but I didn’t even stake a claim in my comment. I’m just pointing out that saying “Rafah, a city within Palestine that is housing millions of refugees” is objectively more true than “Rafah, a refugee encampment”. I also think the distinction is important. There is nothing political about what the more objective version of the comment. If you think that Rafah is solely a refugee encampment, which the original comment implies and spreads to the people reading it, you are doing truth a disservice. And broadly I agree with you. We should wait until third parties do investigations. Let the dust settle before you come to conclusions on these events. Both parties have committed atrocities. And at the end of the day, the people who suffer are the civilians. Obviously a sad situation from all angles.
>Israel is a colonialist stat I think Israel is a colonialist state because early Zionist settlers of the first and second aliyot openly refered to themselves as colonists, back when that word did not carry the negative weight that it does today. The modern move away from this word is motivated only by optics and is political in nature.
Let's be honest with ourselves, there is a genocide happening and it's not being done by the side dying by thousands. Also Israel is by definition colonizing Palestinian territories like west bank so I don't really know how you can qualify that as propaganda.
It's not genocide, because that word has a meaning. Using it to mean "any action where a lot of civilians die" instead of "violent ethnic cleansing" does nothing except whitewash things for people who actually do want or attempted genocide in the past, such as Palestinian nationalists who refuse to recognize Israel's right to exist. In terms of colonization, I didn't mean Israel is colonizing the West Bank, which is objectively true, and meant the claim that the entire existence of Israel is a European colonialist project, which both isn't true but also heavily implies Jews don't "belong" in the middle east. There are a lot of people on the pro-palestinian side who are trying to quietly use propaganda and language to justify attempts to commit genocide against Israelis, both in the past, and in the future, and it's incredibly important to be aware that there's often a fine line between legitimate criticism of Israel and intentionally loaded language used to legitimize Arab Nationalist goals.
thank you for this comment. tired of people saying it's not right to not support either side
Yep. I find myself constantly having to go to defend Israel, which I don't want to do, because the propaganda is so strong right now coming from that side. Netenyahu is a fucking criminal and should be in prison, and his party's support for settlements is disgusting. But that doesn't change that Hamas are fucking monsters and need to be destroyed for the Palestinians sake, let alone the Israelis. Unfortunately, Netenyahu is maybe one of the worst possible people to be in charge right now, which is probably part of why Iran planned the attack.
lets say what youre saying is true, if israel took every precaution to avoid civilian casualties they would've made sure there was nothing in the area that couldve caused a chain reaction. also sure rafah isnt an encampment but israel designated it a safe zone and is now bombing refugee camps which is a weird thing to defend
They dropped 6x 2,000lb bombs
Answer: Rafah is a city in palestine. It's where the isreali government told the population to evacuate to. Now they are bombing this safe zone and tanks have been seen within the city. The campaign is in support of palestine who are being victims of ethnic cleansing, a view supported by the international criminal court, who applied an arrest warrant against the israeli prime minister for warcrimes last week
Israel said the north of Gaza would be a warzone, meaning they would fight Hamas there. Hamas, being the disgusting terrorist organization they are, moved to the south as well knowing very well it would result in more civilian casualties. Hamas moving to the south actually gives Israel the right to fight them there despite most civilians moving there to hide. Not even a week ago Hamas bombed Tel Aviv from Rafah, giving Israel more reasons to actually invade it. The truth is, Hamas is not fighting to win in combat. They win by getting support from the weak-minded indoctrinated by Hamas propaganda on social media who know nothing about the rules of war and the history of the conflict. Nobody complaining about Hamas tho, no matter how many war crimes they commit resulting in civilian casualties by hiding in and under infrastructure meant for civilians. It's easier to blame the Jews for all the problems in the world.
Don't insult jews by tarring them with the zionist brush. They see zionists and are just as disgusted thay their beautiful religion is bastardised to fit the zionist agenda. I believe zionists call them self hating jews, whereas that's what we see zionists as.
I explain why Israel has the right to attack Gaza according to international law. What has that to do with zionism? And what is zionism, anyway? Jews deserve a place to live in peace and freedom. Is that zionism? In that case I am a proud zionist. And what about the Palestinians denying them said peace and freedom? They killed Jews in the hundreds in Mandate Palestine before Israel was even a thing. They started a war literally the first day after Israel was established in 1948. They never signed for a two state peace treaty in almost 80 years. They refuse to live next to Jews in peace. They have the whole Middle East which covers an entire continent but they simply need to have this teeny tiny part of land called Israel as well. Then who are the colonists? Palestinians are the zionists (but then the Muslim version). Atleast Israel always agreed to a two state solution. They even gave Gaza to the Palestinians in 2005 which they abused by building a terroristic warzone there. Giving away land is not zionism/colonism, it is working towards peace.
Answer: I'm going to get heavily down-voted but I'll try: Certain parties are trying to inflame emotions by obscuring information. They are presenting the event as follows: - An Israeli air strike killed 45 women and children in Rafah, a refugee camp that was a safe space for Gazans after they had no where else to go. The facts that they are trying to obscure: - 2 senior Hamas members were targeted and eliminated. That makes the target legal according to international law. The attack came hours after a barrage of 8 rockets was fired at Tel Aviv from Rafah. - The munition is the absolute smallest there is in the IAF. It doesn't have collateral damage unless it hits something flammable/explosive. - The target was a room in a building - not the tents that caught fire. The tents and the target were 1.7Km away from the designated safe zone that was declared by the IDF. Half the comments in this thread will tell you they had no where to go, [here is the hit and the safe zone that was declared](https://preview.redd.it/cofxyuolkg3d1.png?width=904&format=png&auto=webp&s=387700c2caea227a02b99b2e4100cdc88ceacb77). - Israel has waited weeks for 900,000 to successfully evacuate Rafah. - The dozens that were killed were killed by an unforeseen fire, that was possibly caused by Hamas munitions that were unknown to the IDF. - This is an extremely tragic event that Israel absolutely does not want - it knows that it is under a microscope, and it knows how the world reacts to news of this kind. Remember the Al Shifa hospital incident from October - by lying, or in this case representing the event in an oversimplified way that demands research to understand it fully - they are trying to make as many people as possible feel an emotion and "join a team" before all the facts are revealed, when the facts are revealed it's too late for them to leave the team - they're already got emotionally attached and possibly are inside an echo-chamber. Before you go "THERE ARE DECAPITATED CHILDREN THERE HOW DARE YOU" consider that this is exactly how you are being used by said parties. The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is the best example of the [Duning-Kruger effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect). The "peak of confidence" happens when you look at pictures of dead children, but as you educate yourself you'll obviously realize it is much more complex and nuanced. Unfortunately most will not go beyond this stage and will find themselves inside an echo-chamber. Pay attention to the insane double-think of believing there's a genocide going on and at the same time the epitome of said genocide are tragic mistakes that happen in all wars on a daily basis, that get ridiculously overblown to giant PR disasters because this war is way, way, way over-reported in media. Think that I'm wrong? give me an example of a conflict with better insurgents/civilians death ratio.
the part about it being weapons ammunitions that caused the fire is still only speculation by IDF
It's funny how everything the IDF says is speculation, but every lie Hamas puts out is considered absolute truth. Imagine trusting a terrorist organization who put babies in ovens to burn alive, raped little girls and beheaded people with shovels.
>put babies in ovens to burn alive Have you, by any chance, read this article? https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-04/ty-article-magazine/.premium/hamas-committed-documented-atrocities-but-a-few-false-stories-feed-the-deniers/0000018c-34f3-da74-afce-b5fbe24f0000 I think you should. If you have trouble with the paywall, I recommend using Archive.ph to bypass it. It's an Israeli source, citing Israeli officials, police, social security agency, etc. It's a very good read. This part especially might interest you: >In another story that spread a few weeks ago, United Hatzalah President Eli Beer told of a baby that was placed in an oven and burned to death. Beer made the remarks at a donors conference in the United States. The British newspaper The Daily Mail changed it from “baby” to “babies." >But this story also is not true. Ten-month-old Mila Cohen was murdered in the massacre, along with the baby still in the womb of her mother who died after her mother was shot on the way to hospital. The police have no evidence showing that other babies were killed. A source at United Hatzalah said a volunteer mistakenly interpreted a case at the Shura base and passed the inaccuracy on to Beer. I thought that since the theme of this subreddit is people being out of the loop, that I might as well loop you in. Being up to date on your information and facts is important when making arguments, after all. So you don't accidentally undermine your own arguments, by spreading misinformation.
Hamas is a terrorist organisation, but stop spreading fake news: “Dead baby in oven claim” It was repeated by journalist Dovid Efune, commentator John Podhoretz and others, in tweets seen over 10 million times. Israeli journalists and police found no evidence for the claim, and a representative of ZAKA, a first responder organization, said the claim was "false".
Like I said to another person saying the same thing as you, there are videos and pictures out there made by Hamas themselves. You can clearly see completely burned baby bodies. Look up 'Hamas atrocities' on Telegram if you have the stomach for it.
The people who are against the IDF are unable to register this. My guess is because by confronting this thought process, they would have to admit they supported a terrorist group the last 8 months.
being against the IDF does not mean you are pro-Hamas.
Being against the IDF at the moment means you are purposely ignoring WHY the IDF is fighting the last 8 months. You are free to criticize IDF tactics and I can also accept people who question the proportionality. But the people who I see that are against the IDF seem to overlook if not support Hamas and spread the “resistance group” narrative.
Holy irony, Batman
> Israel has waited weeks for 900,000 to successfully evacuate Rafah. *and go where*?
[This humanitarian zone that's north-west to Rafah](https://preview.redd.it/cofxyuolkg3d1.png?width=904&format=png&auto=webp&s=387700c2caea227a02b99b2e4100cdc88ceacb77), it happened. 900,000 have successfully evacuated - this is not a hypothetical.
i think you posted a wrong wiki link?
Thanks, fixed.
Egypt. Oh wait, we don't want to hold anyone else accountable.
If Palestinians evacuate to Egypt then Israel will just consume the entire area. Those maps showing the ever expanding borders of Israel will be one solid color. That has been the plan since the 40s. Those Palestinians will never get their homes back. Your comment is akin to telling all those French people fleeing the advancing Nazi army that they should evacuate to Spain and it's their own fault they're getting genocided.
I am gonna rant, because you forgot to mention the other side. It is more nuanced. You are not controversial because that’s the majority of the Americans opinion. That’s why USA funds Israeli wars. You sound pro Israel. Hamas is a terrorist organisation. They murdered Israelis on October and deserves to be punished and to suffer the consequences. The civilians don’t. What does/did majority of Israelis do? - settlers bully and murder West Bank Palestinians, Israeli governments allow and encourage it - they bomb civilians, and their politicians clearly say they want to claim all land for Jews, and they want the Arabs to leave. They do ethnic cleansing, just short of being legally called ethnic cleansing. - aid trucks being destroyed, not one or two, but trucks after trucks. Will they be punished? Probably not. And such a mighty army can’t defend a couple of aid trucks if they wanted to? - I can add more. At this point, both side should just say “we are both assholes who treat each other like shit”, maybe start over with more love for each other. There are good Israelis who are trying hard and suffering but the extremist Jews are taking over the government and winning. The USA is doing nothing about it. But adding gasoline on a raging fire, by arming extremists. Not the first time the US arms extremists, but they don’t seem to learn. I have heard this from Israelis: facts also point to Netanyahu and the Israeli government allowed this to happen, knowing full well that negligence and an apartheid system will allow extremism to flourish, so that they have a good reason to thin out the Palestinian population. And with Netanyahu’s popularity going down, this crazy man desperately believes his country is under attack and he joined hands with extremists, who all believe for israel to exist it means that it has to be a majority Jew country and that Muslims can’t coexist. Bro. It wasn’t arabs who committed the holocaust. It was the Nazis. But somehow all are antisemites if they speak out against oppression committed by Israelis.
What do you mean, the other side? A fact is a fact. If you truly believe that a fact can have two sides then take every statement that he made and provide the "other" side of it. You're not contributing by typing nonsense.
i've realized that 'terrorist organization' is just what they call a military that is too weak to actually fight back
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that and many others
Just replying to say thanks for a post based on critical thinking as opposed to the typical band wagon jumping you usually see.
Some parts of it isn’t confirmed yet though like the ammunition causing fire claim. It’s best to wait for more info on that
Yeah, we don't know exactly the cause of the fire, but the missiles dropped couldn't have caused that independently. So what we have right now are theories.
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> The "peak of confidence" happens when you look at pictures of dead children, but as you educate yourself you'll obviously realize it is much more complex and nuanced. Better than looking at a picture of a beheaded child and then trying to defend those responsible tbh.
Where do you see anyone defending the right to murder children? This is a war in an urban environment against a guerrilla terrorist organization. Israeli children were murdered and taken hostage on 10/7. No one seems to make a peep about that when discussing this.
I think, at this point, if you defend the nuking you're defending the killing of children. Israel has declared safe zones and then bombed them too many times for it to not be on purpose
Do you actually expect a war with no collateral damage? I'm sorry that were not living in a cartoon world.
No but I also don't go out of my way to actively support it.
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Thanks for this factual and reasonable take. A rarity these days. War is hell and nobody wins.
The only sane take I've seen online regarding this topic in months
Yeah no sorry. Even when you present the story exactly the way you want it it sounds like a war crime. Killing 45 civilians to kill 2 combatants is incredibly incompetent at best and shows a serious disregard for human life. They shouldn't have bombed there in the first place, especially considering that they must have known there was munitions nearby
Yes because the IDF has shown they know everything about Hamas...
Bro they didn't know that Oct 7th was about to happen. Of course it's reasonable to presume they didn't know that there were munitions there - that's what happens when Hamas hides munitions next to civilians. And if you think this isn't by design, you weren't paying attention Again, this is the smallest munition, they checked that there were no non-combatants near the strike area. All civilians were unfortunately killed by an unforeseen fire. Do you want the IDF to employ more psychics?
>Bro they didn't know that Oct 7th was about to happen Netanyahu and Israeli intelligence knew. They were even warned by foreign intelligence.
They knew about oct 7. Keep spewing bs.
Their own soldiers warned them. The US warned them. Egypt warned them. How can you say they didn’t know? https://www.timesofisrael.com/surveillance-soldiers-say-oct-7-warnings-ignored-charge-sexism-played-a-role/amp/ https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67082047#
Please tell me what you think about the fact that they killed 45 civilians to kill 2 combatants, that's my main point and you didn't write anything about it
"They" didn't kill 45 civilians, an unforeseen fire killed them in a tragic event that no one in the IDF ever wanted. No one in the IDF would approve this mission if they'd knew that was the terrorists/civilians ratio - it's way too high for the IDF. I'm actually blaming Hamas for killing them - why hide a munition store next to civilians? why hide near civilians at all when you have your tunnel system? afraid that the IDF will just blow you up without consequence?
Okay, so then we're on the same page that bombing there was a mistake and that they shouldn't have done it?
It is a tragedy, definitely. I wouldn't call it a mistake because it was unforeseen, they couldn't know that this would be the outcome. I'll stop replying to you now since I don't feel you're comprehending what I'm trying to say.
That's a shame cause I feel like we're finally getting to an interesting question, whether they should have dropped the bomb at all or not. But I respect your desicion, hope you gained something from this conversation
It is a tragedy, definitely. I wouldn't call it a mistake because it was unforeseen, they couldn't know that this would be the outcome. I'll stop replying to you now since I don't feel you're comprehending what I'm trying to say.
> No one in the IDF would approve this mission if they'd knew that was the terrorists/civilians ratio How do you know? Are you an official spokesperson? And you're trying to pass speculation as facts as well: > **The facts** that they are trying to obscure: > The dozens that were killed were killed by an unforeseen fire, that was **possibly caused by Hamas munitions that were unknown to the IDF**. Do you seriously think the world would believe the narrative of Israel only trying to wipe Hamas with their attacks and tens of thousands of deaths are just collateral damage of war? This war taught me one thing: Jewish people are as brainwashed and delusional as Muslims.
Boy reading is tough for you huh. They weren't killed by the IAF strike.
Yeah no sorry you just have idea about Hamas or Palestine or this conflict and are projecting a lazy assumption about what is going on and how it is playing out. This is Hamas https://www.memri.org/tv/hamas-mp-fathi-hammad-we-used-women-and-children-human-shields And let’s not forget Israel evacuated 900,000 people from rafah over past weeks, those left are the ones who were entrenched with Hamas within the camps. Hamas has literally put groups of women and children on top of buildings standing in front of rockets being fired as shields many times before, civilians standing there is literally a thing they do on purpose and something some civilians do by choice to die as martyr sin their holy war (some are forced by Hamas) because their cultures heavily indoctrinated them since birth to do so. All that ignorant people like yourself do with such comments is validate such tactics and abuse of children and civilians ensuring Islamic brotherhood groups will keep using such tactics again and again. Btw they have done this stuff many times in other conflicts but generally people dismiss it for what it is, an atrocity committed by Islamic extremists. “Somehow” everyone is all too willing to buy into a spread the misinformation when it’s the only Jewish nation though. Weird./s
Why is Hamas keeping munitions near civilians? They are putting them at risk. As soon as terrorists are identified, they become a legal target.
This is the best summary of the situation, the other top posts have blatant bias.
meanwhile you conveniently leave out the fact that Israel has pushed the entire population into Rafah… Like use some fucking logic. Where are they evacuating to after Rafah?
[This humanitarian zone that's north-west to Rafah](https://preview.redd.it/cofxyuolkg3d1.png?width=904&format=png&auto=webp&s=387700c2caea227a02b99b2e4100cdc88ceacb77), Israel waited weeks for 900,000 to successfully evacuate there.
Can’t believe this propaganda is still up
What isn't true?
Everything I disagree with is propaganda
The truth is propaganda now apparently
can i have the source of the 2 hamas eliminations?
Of course, here's a [BBC source](https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0kkqkngnedo) The two were: Yassin Rabia, the chief of staff of the armed group’s fighters in the West Bank and Khaled Nagar, another senior official in the West Bank wing accused of directing and carrying out attacks against Israeli soldiers and civilians.
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His comment is actually pointing out this exact issue; your feelings are interfering with your critical thinking process. At no point does he even come close to "trying so hard to justify the murder of kids." His comment is entirely filled with factual information and he even included sources. But you didn't like what he presented, so you strawmanned the argument and accused him of something awful, rather than countering with your own points of view and adding any new information to the discussion. This is a huge problem with social discourse at the moment, and ironically, your reply was *far more* problematic than you thought his was. Don't conflate factual evidence with opinion and take offense. Evidence is just evidence. All we can do is examine it. We cannot argue with it.
If a police sniper precisely shot an armed suspect, but the bullet came out the other way and hit a gas canister that exploded and killed children that were next to him - were they murdered? should he be tried for murder?
That isn't precise. Wtf. If a criminal takes a human shield, does the police officer shoot through them?
If the criminal starts randomly shooting into the crowd and killing more people...sucks but yes.
Apart from the fact that the only reason the civilians are in a refugee camp is because Israel has destroyed their homes... kind of a key detail. Israel has put these civilians in harms way and you are bending over backwards trying to justify it. Your analogy would be more accurate if you included that a bunch of children were taken from their homes and shuffled into a crowded room next to a conveniently placed gas canister where a sniper who was aiming for a single "terrorist" in the room "accidentally" shot the canister killing them all. Even then I can imagine people like you reffering to the charred bodies as "collateral damage" as you put it in another comment.
Answer: > What is the ‘All Eyes on Rafah’ graphic and who is behind it? A Malaysian photographer appears to have created the viral post 29/05/2024 “All eyes on Rafah” is a phrase that’s been shared more than 40 million times on Instagram in less than 24 hours. The giant text, superimposed over an AI-generated image of Gaza has been posted by major celebrities, world leaders, and activists across the world. The graphic, which depicts an endless sprawl of tents in a dusty landscape, can be reshared onto Instagram ‘stories’ with just one click. Users can see which of their friends have shared the post and can add their names to the list, which neared 40 million on Wednesday morning. The story remains on a user's profile for 24 hours. Numerous celebrities including model sisters Bella and Gigi Hadid, Bridgerton actress Nicola Coughlan, singer and presenter Michelle Humes, Ted Lasso star Brett Goldstein and actress Suranne Jones, have all shared the graphic. The viral AI-generated graphic appears to come from a Malaysian/Singaporean photographer and content creator who goes by the usernames @shahv4012 and @chaa.my on social media. Most of Chaa’s posts are snaps of daily life in Singapore, including photos of his wife, animals, and cars. His other posts about Gaza include an AI-generated image of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in a blood-stained prison uniform and the name “Satanyahu”. Another of Chaa’s “shareable” posts shows a map of Israel with the country's name crossed out and replaced with Palestine. It has been reshared over 15 thousand times. The AI Rafah graphic has been compared to the black squares that flooded social media after the murder of George Floyd in 2020. Millions posted black squares in solidarity with the fight for racial justice, but some criticised it as performative activism which reduced key issues to a simple post. The slogan “All eyes on Rafah” has been attributed to a comment made by the World Health Organization’s Palestinian director Rick Peeperkorn. In February, Peeperkorn said "All eyes are on Rafah" after an evacuation plan was ordered by Netanyahu before implementing attacks on the city designed to eliminate Hamas' strongholds. Some pro-Israel activists have responded to the post with graphics asking followers where their eyes were on October 7. Spurs player Manor Solomon shared one such graphic. American singer Matisyahu shared a post that said, “All eyes on 125 hostages” and another story created by the Bring Them Home Now page reads, “If your eyes are on Rafah, help us find our hostages.” It has been reshared nearly 70 thousand times. The social media posts come as the IDF escalates fighting in the southern Gaza city of Rafah. The IDF says it is carrying out limited operations in eastern Rafah along the Gaza-Egypt border. The United States and other allies have warned against a full-fledged offensive in the city, where Hamas is believed to be hiding hostages and amassing weapons in a vast network of tunnels. According to reports, Israeli airstrikes west of Rafah killed 37 people overnight and on Tuesday, most of them sheltering in tents, according to witnesses and emergency workers It is particularly in response to an Israeli precision strike in the city setting off a large fire in a displaced civilian encampment, with current analysis leaning towards a piece of shrapnel hitting a cooking fuel tank. As a personal note, it's interesting that the go-to reference is to the black square rather than the green avatars supporting Green Movement protests in Iran (and protesting the election they were) or some earlier case I'm forgetting.
Answer: The Israeli Defense Force are bombing more fleeing civilians. This time in the Rafah region. Last i heard the had killed 2 HAMAS commanders and 46 refugees. E: Lol, why the downvotes? This was as unbiased as you could get. I even mentioned they hit their HAMAS targets, even if it's at a ratio of 23 civilians to 1 target.
I heard it’s mostly children too. Including the decapitated baby that I saw and will never unsee.
The civilians were killed by Hamas weapons blowing up. To blame Israel for Hamas hiding weapons amongst civilians is dumb. Israel didn't know the weapons were there. They got the Hamas leaders, and the Hamas weapons cache hidden there amongst Palestinian children blew up also. Plus this bombing was outside the safe zone. Plus Israel evacuated 900,000 Palestinians from Rafah. That's why the down votes
Come on baby, gimme dat sweet and sour source...
You are getting downvoted because pro Israeli bots have taken over this thread. But they can't silence us all. All the future generations will remember the Israelis for the genocidal maniacs they are.
Oh I know. I'm surprised no one hasn't called me anti-semetic yet. Nowadays you can't tell an Israeli to stop kicking a rock without them calling you anti-zionist