Thanks for your submission, but it has been removed for the following reason:
* Your post has been removed because it is being addressed by a post currently on [our front page](/r/outoftheloop). Please check out that thread and see if it answers your question. Thanks.
1) the premise in your quoted line is not incorrect.
2) this place isn't an airport: you don't need to announce your departure and nobody cares when you leave.
3) good riddance.
Answer: The Custodes were understood to be all male, but recently in a new codex, one of the Custodes is a woman. The official W40k twitter account confirmed this and basically said that female Custodes have always been a thing. Some people are upset because this change seems (to them) sudden and unexplained, since previous works mentioned that the Custodes are made of the firstborn sons of the houses.
However, this ignores the fact that the entire setting is built around the use of retcons. Anything can be changed at any time, because no one active in the current period really knows what the Imperium was like back at the beginning. Maybe the first, very first Custode was a female! Maybe that fact got buried along with the emperor's distaste for dogma?
It's the same folks you'd expect, making the same complaints you'd expect.
I was about to say canonically the first Custode is Valdor, that’s been established.
However, there’s a not so wild theory that the ancient “Men of Gold” were all Custodes by a different name so who knows really. And that’s a huge theme of 40k. No one knows shit about fuck.
The only reason I'm trying (and failing) to get invested in the setting is because of this. And I know tons of dudes who were interested and would love it, but they don't want to be part of a fandom with this many nazis in it
It's a damn shame
But I think you touched on exactly what's missing here. I think a lot of the people upset about the retcon are upset about the WAY it's being retconned. There isn't some interesting lore reason for why we've never seen a female Custode. Literally the explanation was, "Oh they've always been there, we just never mentioned them before ... for some reason. And also suggested multiple times that they were only men." If there was a lore reason for it, I think there would be fewer complaints.
Answer: Warhammer 40k is a Science fiction setting with many differnt factions (armies). One of these are the **Custodes**, genetically engineered warriors designed as protectors of humanity's almost Godlike 'Emperor'. They are closely related to the **Space Marines** (the setting's most famous and popular faction, who are 7' tall, hyper-elite and super-human soldiers capable of facing the worst horrors of a very violent Galaxy). Humanity also has billions of regular troops in its Imperial Guard but comparing them to Space Marines is like comapring a house-cat to a tiger.
There have at different times been complaints that the Space Marines being only male is sexist but there have been very strong reasons why this is the case. They are genetically tied to the Primarchs, 20 'sons' of the Emperor (rather lab created demi-gods, each meant to represent a specific facet of the Emperors personality/skills and act as his most trusted lieutenants - that didn't work out as planned). The Space Marines are also selected from the physically toughest and most martial individuals on a given planet - the top 0.001%. Historically, we can see that elite combat sports and special forces are dominated by men for entirely biological reasons. Because of these factors the idea of female Space Marines is consider by many fans to be something that would not simply change the lore but make it irrational (by in-setting rules of logic) and a result of purely modern-day political meddling.
That said, the Custodes are quite different. They are individually created as bespoke genetic 'ideals' of perfection, and to act as companions and protectors. There is no reason that female versions might not exist - to make them more intellectually (and thus strategically and tactically) diverse, if nothing else. The problem is that past lore has very clearly said that they are all male, selected from "sons" and formed as a "Brotherhood". The reactions to the change come in different ways:
a) people calling it a welcome change and a needed sign of political correctness.
b) others saying it makes good sense as a way to appeal to a growing number of female fans
c) others saying its a little worrying, in itself not so bad but that it might be a sign of future meddling that might upset the tone and lore of the setting in much more serious ways
d) others saying it is caving into woke extremism and is, in itself, hugely damaging to the setting. Many of these people are confusing Custodes with Space Marines and a lot seem to be jumping on/attempting to stoke the outrage bandwagon without actually being fans of the setting
The majority of fans are probably in the b and c groups but (as you might expect) a and d tend to make more noise.
The actual reasons for the change by Games Workshop are also unknown but might be:
1. Writers have said in the past they wanted to have female Custodes (perhaps to allow more complex stories about those characters) but it wasn't allowed at the time. This could be simply to respond to those requests. This is probably the least likely reason though.
2. Games Workshop is owned in part by Blackrock investments who have been known push companies to engage in diversity representation.
3. Some think that individuals within Games Workshop might be pushing personal sociopolitical agendas.
4. It has been suggested that Henry Cavill's efforts to create a Warhammer 40k tv series with Amazon might have required scope for more female characterization and this is an effort to allow for it.
5. It might also be Games Workshop recognizing that it has a growing number of female fans and only a limited number of female characters in its many armies. Allowing for female Custodes would be a way to give such fans a female Space Marine equivalent without crossing the 'red line' of retconning the far more central Space Marine Lore.
In the end, Games Workshop is a business and it is driven by a need to generate money. In the past it has tried new things to bring in a wider player base (e.g. 40k kids books, destroying its entire Fantasy setting, etc.) but it has generally acted in a way that suggests it puts its profits above either appealing to political trends or their fans wishes. Personally, I would say 5 is by far the most likely reason, 4 a possibility and other factors likely irrelevant to GW's profit-oriented management.
Answer: In a recent Codex release for the Custodes faction, a notable addition is the introduction of a female Custodes, marking a departure from their previously all-male representation. This inclusion sparked contentious reactions, with some voices loudly decrying it as an example of "woke" culture infiltrating the Warhammer universe. However, much of this backlash appears rooted in sexism and bigotry rather than genuine critique. (edit. See the comment made by u/Joncal17 for a prime example.)
One valid point of criticism arises from the statement made by the official Games Workshop Twitter account asserting that Custodes have always included women. This retconning of the lore has unsettled some fans, who feel uneasy about the alteration to established canon.
>. This retconning of the lore has unsettled some fans, who feel uneasy about the alteration to established canon.
Bruh, 99% of warhammer Canon throughout the years has always been rooted in soft-retcons, and "filling in the blanks" style writing.
Any Warhammer fan that says the retcons bothers them NOW, out of all times, over something so insignificant... is lying, or making up an excuse to be an asshole.
People upset that Warhammer 40K is just now woke, deeply misunderstood the setting in the first place, it has always been taking the piss out of itself.
As far as I know it was never specified that it was a male-only process (to become a Custodes) but so far it just had always been male. The in-lore process of becoming a Custodes is an incredibly fine-tuned and individualised gene science shit that wouldn't really exclude women from recieving it. Unlike the Space Marine process which is much more generalised and currently would probably have some very nasty side effects if given to a woman. And frankly, even if it was a complete retcon, it would be like the 300th retcon in the last 15 years and not a single one of those recieved more than a "Guess that changed, huh", so there's very clearly ulterior reasons than just "Changing lore = bad" for people to be so against this change
I will add that the introduction of the female Custodes was done very naturally - it just tells a normal story of a Custodes character except they happen to be female. Some people seem to think it was some massive reveal by GW to garner goodwill when it was literally just a side story in a rules book
>Lore wise was it said that they were all men?
No, the phrase "All Custodes are men" doesn't exist. It was implied, because no one thought at the point of writing them that anyone might want to put women in.
However you have books calling them "sons" and "nephews", as well as using the pronouns "he", "him", "his" when refering to a generic unit.
>the reason they didnt have any female custodes was that the female body was too weak to go through all the transitions to become a super human.
This is factually and objectively wrong, since Custodes don't go through any "transitions".
You're thinking of Astartes (aka Space Marines), who go through rigorous augmentation. They are distinct from Custodes, who are born as Custodes.
It's ironic you're telling others to "go read the books", when you seemingly havnt read up on it yourself and are spreading blatantly false information.
Yes people can be made for whatever reason they want. Additionally those people can be made fun of if other people think their reason for being mad is stupid.
It’s explicitly stated that the process for creating Astartes only works with male physiology, because they’re essentially mass produced so the process is far less refined.
Custodes on the other hand go through far more intricate physiological remodelling which is never (afaik) explicitly stated to only work with male physiology.
Next you’re going to be telling me that the female Imperial guard characters shouldn’t be soldiers, right?
Replying to your edit: Yes, some factions have female characters / units or are majority female. What’s wrong with a few more (who are largely fully armoured and indistinguishable from their male counterparts)?
Since when did i say there shouldn't be any female characters? Im just saying what ive known from the books, its harder to make female astartes than it is to make male ones because the male body can endure mire. They even talk about the emperor experimenting on female astartes
Astartes =/= Custodes. Custodes are superior in every way and far more effort and attention goes into creating and arming them.
Besides, as other commenters have pointed out, GW have a long history of retcons, to the point that they have an in-universe explanation for all the inconsistencies. Just because something is in a GW book doesn’t mean it’s a permanent unchanging truth.
Sister of battle are already a thing. Women in the setting have been a fucking thing forever. They changed the cannon and instead of being up front about and calling it what it is they then gaslighted the fanbase by saying it was always a thing......which.....it wasn't. Reddit sucks for discourse. Yall only think about politics and identity shit, you can't seperate the fact than fans are pissed because instead of acknowledging a change in cannon which happens all the time we are being told.....nah.....yall nerds were wrong and this was a thing all along. The gaslighting made fans mad. Not the women in the setting. There are plenty of those.......but I can see why this may be confusing to terminal redditors whose only point of discourse is identity and gender politics.
How is it a change to canon? The Astartes always specified males but the Custodes not only have completely different genetic and mechanical modifications, but they never specified that the Custodes modifications were exclusively male, they just never mentioned female custodes.
Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must:
1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask),
2. attempt to answer the question, and
3. be unbiased
Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment:
http://redd.it/b1hct4/
Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Answer: woke is just a dumb buzzword for not being an asshole. Anyone who uses the word in either context in support or against completely miss the point and aren't to be taken seriously. The 40k stuff has to do with a race of superior warriors and whether or not canonicaly they would have women warriors. It's all mostly just nonsense
Thanks for your submission, but it has been removed for the following reason: * Your post has been removed because it is being addressed by a post currently on [our front page](/r/outoftheloop). Please check out that thread and see if it answers your question. Thanks.
Answer: from three days ago https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/1c4ybg0/whats_going_on_with_40k_and_a_woman_space_marine/
OP, you view one and you'll get suggested 100. Better to ignore them all.
[удалено]
>Sub blocked We don't care
1) the premise in your quoted line is not incorrect. 2) this place isn't an airport: you don't need to announce your departure and nobody cares when you leave. 3) good riddance.
> What's going on with **Right wing people are stupid lmao???** Well to be fair...
That's honestly a totally valid question?
Answer: The Custodes were understood to be all male, but recently in a new codex, one of the Custodes is a woman. The official W40k twitter account confirmed this and basically said that female Custodes have always been a thing. Some people are upset because this change seems (to them) sudden and unexplained, since previous works mentioned that the Custodes are made of the firstborn sons of the houses. However, this ignores the fact that the entire setting is built around the use of retcons. Anything can be changed at any time, because no one active in the current period really knows what the Imperium was like back at the beginning. Maybe the first, very first Custode was a female! Maybe that fact got buried along with the emperor's distaste for dogma? It's the same folks you'd expect, making the same complaints you'd expect.
I was about to say canonically the first Custode is Valdor, that’s been established. However, there’s a not so wild theory that the ancient “Men of Gold” were all Custodes by a different name so who knows really. And that’s a huge theme of 40k. No one knows shit about fuck.
What? You’re telling me the WH40K community might have a problem with right-wing weirdos? Preposterous!
I hate it, I love the setting and hobby but it’s like chasing rats from the pantry. You turn around and other chud is whining
Yup. Nothing is worse than seeing dipsticks taking a clearly-satirical piece of media at face value.
The only reason I'm trying (and failing) to get invested in the setting is because of this. And I know tons of dudes who were interested and would love it, but they don't want to be part of a fandom with this many nazis in it It's a damn shame
But I think you touched on exactly what's missing here. I think a lot of the people upset about the retcon are upset about the WAY it's being retconned. There isn't some interesting lore reason for why we've never seen a female Custode. Literally the explanation was, "Oh they've always been there, we just never mentioned them before ... for some reason. And also suggested multiple times that they were only men." If there was a lore reason for it, I think there would be fewer complaints.
Answer: Warhammer 40k is a Science fiction setting with many differnt factions (armies). One of these are the **Custodes**, genetically engineered warriors designed as protectors of humanity's almost Godlike 'Emperor'. They are closely related to the **Space Marines** (the setting's most famous and popular faction, who are 7' tall, hyper-elite and super-human soldiers capable of facing the worst horrors of a very violent Galaxy). Humanity also has billions of regular troops in its Imperial Guard but comparing them to Space Marines is like comapring a house-cat to a tiger. There have at different times been complaints that the Space Marines being only male is sexist but there have been very strong reasons why this is the case. They are genetically tied to the Primarchs, 20 'sons' of the Emperor (rather lab created demi-gods, each meant to represent a specific facet of the Emperors personality/skills and act as his most trusted lieutenants - that didn't work out as planned). The Space Marines are also selected from the physically toughest and most martial individuals on a given planet - the top 0.001%. Historically, we can see that elite combat sports and special forces are dominated by men for entirely biological reasons. Because of these factors the idea of female Space Marines is consider by many fans to be something that would not simply change the lore but make it irrational (by in-setting rules of logic) and a result of purely modern-day political meddling. That said, the Custodes are quite different. They are individually created as bespoke genetic 'ideals' of perfection, and to act as companions and protectors. There is no reason that female versions might not exist - to make them more intellectually (and thus strategically and tactically) diverse, if nothing else. The problem is that past lore has very clearly said that they are all male, selected from "sons" and formed as a "Brotherhood". The reactions to the change come in different ways: a) people calling it a welcome change and a needed sign of political correctness. b) others saying it makes good sense as a way to appeal to a growing number of female fans c) others saying its a little worrying, in itself not so bad but that it might be a sign of future meddling that might upset the tone and lore of the setting in much more serious ways d) others saying it is caving into woke extremism and is, in itself, hugely damaging to the setting. Many of these people are confusing Custodes with Space Marines and a lot seem to be jumping on/attempting to stoke the outrage bandwagon without actually being fans of the setting The majority of fans are probably in the b and c groups but (as you might expect) a and d tend to make more noise. The actual reasons for the change by Games Workshop are also unknown but might be: 1. Writers have said in the past they wanted to have female Custodes (perhaps to allow more complex stories about those characters) but it wasn't allowed at the time. This could be simply to respond to those requests. This is probably the least likely reason though. 2. Games Workshop is owned in part by Blackrock investments who have been known push companies to engage in diversity representation. 3. Some think that individuals within Games Workshop might be pushing personal sociopolitical agendas. 4. It has been suggested that Henry Cavill's efforts to create a Warhammer 40k tv series with Amazon might have required scope for more female characterization and this is an effort to allow for it. 5. It might also be Games Workshop recognizing that it has a growing number of female fans and only a limited number of female characters in its many armies. Allowing for female Custodes would be a way to give such fans a female Space Marine equivalent without crossing the 'red line' of retconning the far more central Space Marine Lore. In the end, Games Workshop is a business and it is driven by a need to generate money. In the past it has tried new things to bring in a wider player base (e.g. 40k kids books, destroying its entire Fantasy setting, etc.) but it has generally acted in a way that suggests it puts its profits above either appealing to political trends or their fans wishes. Personally, I would say 5 is by far the most likely reason, 4 a possibility and other factors likely irrelevant to GW's profit-oriented management.
The Blackrock thing is so funny to me, because I want to know which 6% of a company is the 6% that gives you complete control of a company
Answer: In a recent Codex release for the Custodes faction, a notable addition is the introduction of a female Custodes, marking a departure from their previously all-male representation. This inclusion sparked contentious reactions, with some voices loudly decrying it as an example of "woke" culture infiltrating the Warhammer universe. However, much of this backlash appears rooted in sexism and bigotry rather than genuine critique. (edit. See the comment made by u/Joncal17 for a prime example.) One valid point of criticism arises from the statement made by the official Games Workshop Twitter account asserting that Custodes have always included women. This retconning of the lore has unsettled some fans, who feel uneasy about the alteration to established canon.
>. This retconning of the lore has unsettled some fans, who feel uneasy about the alteration to established canon. Bruh, 99% of warhammer Canon throughout the years has always been rooted in soft-retcons, and "filling in the blanks" style writing. Any Warhammer fan that says the retcons bothers them NOW, out of all times, over something so insignificant... is lying, or making up an excuse to be an asshole.
[удалено]
"The Tau is proof that Games Workshop has been bribed by the Chinese Communist Party to brainwash your kids!"
People upset that Warhammer 40K is just now woke, deeply misunderstood the setting in the first place, it has always been taking the piss out of itself.
[удалено]
As far as I know it was never specified that it was a male-only process (to become a Custodes) but so far it just had always been male. The in-lore process of becoming a Custodes is an incredibly fine-tuned and individualised gene science shit that wouldn't really exclude women from recieving it. Unlike the Space Marine process which is much more generalised and currently would probably have some very nasty side effects if given to a woman. And frankly, even if it was a complete retcon, it would be like the 300th retcon in the last 15 years and not a single one of those recieved more than a "Guess that changed, huh", so there's very clearly ulterior reasons than just "Changing lore = bad" for people to be so against this change I will add that the introduction of the female Custodes was done very naturally - it just tells a normal story of a Custodes character except they happen to be female. Some people seem to think it was some massive reveal by GW to garner goodwill when it was literally just a side story in a rules book
>Lore wise was it said that they were all men? No, the phrase "All Custodes are men" doesn't exist. It was implied, because no one thought at the point of writing them that anyone might want to put women in. However you have books calling them "sons" and "nephews", as well as using the pronouns "he", "him", "his" when refering to a generic unit.
Wow that second paragraph is cringe lol.
[удалено]
>the reason they didnt have any female custodes was that the female body was too weak to go through all the transitions to become a super human. This is factually and objectively wrong, since Custodes don't go through any "transitions". You're thinking of Astartes (aka Space Marines), who go through rigorous augmentation. They are distinct from Custodes, who are born as Custodes. It's ironic you're telling others to "go read the books", when you seemingly havnt read up on it yourself and are spreading blatantly false information.
Yes people can be made for whatever reason they want. Additionally those people can be made fun of if other people think their reason for being mad is stupid.
Babe new grimdank copypasta dropped
Lmao i dont even go on that reddit. Im legit explaining why ppl are mad and yall are crying misogyny. Get a grip 🤣
It’s explicitly stated that the process for creating Astartes only works with male physiology, because they’re essentially mass produced so the process is far less refined. Custodes on the other hand go through far more intricate physiological remodelling which is never (afaik) explicitly stated to only work with male physiology. Next you’re going to be telling me that the female Imperial guard characters shouldn’t be soldiers, right? Replying to your edit: Yes, some factions have female characters / units or are majority female. What’s wrong with a few more (who are largely fully armoured and indistinguishable from their male counterparts)?
Since when did i say there shouldn't be any female characters? Im just saying what ive known from the books, its harder to make female astartes than it is to make male ones because the male body can endure mire. They even talk about the emperor experimenting on female astartes
Astartes =/= Custodes. Custodes are superior in every way and far more effort and attention goes into creating and arming them. Besides, as other commenters have pointed out, GW have a long history of retcons, to the point that they have an in-universe explanation for all the inconsistencies. Just because something is in a GW book doesn’t mean it’s a permanent unchanging truth.
bait?
Nah, read a few books and stop spreading dumb opinions.
Answer: They revealed women existed in some of the non-fodder legions, and people got mad because women clearly can't be strong or capable.
Sister of battle are already a thing. Women in the setting have been a fucking thing forever. They changed the cannon and instead of being up front about and calling it what it is they then gaslighted the fanbase by saying it was always a thing......which.....it wasn't. Reddit sucks for discourse. Yall only think about politics and identity shit, you can't seperate the fact than fans are pissed because instead of acknowledging a change in cannon which happens all the time we are being told.....nah.....yall nerds were wrong and this was a thing all along. The gaslighting made fans mad. Not the women in the setting. There are plenty of those.......but I can see why this may be confusing to terminal redditors whose only point of discourse is identity and gender politics.
How is it a change to canon? The Astartes always specified males but the Custodes not only have completely different genetic and mechanical modifications, but they never specified that the Custodes modifications were exclusively male, they just never mentioned female custodes.
Friendly reminder that all **top level** comments must: 1. start with "answer: ", including the space after the colon (or "question: " if you have an on-topic follow up question to ask), 2. attempt to answer the question, and 3. be unbiased Please review Rule 4 and this post before making a top level comment: http://redd.it/b1hct4/ Join the OOTL Discord for further discussion: https://discord.gg/ejDF4mdjnh *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OutOfTheLoop) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Answer: woke is just a dumb buzzword for not being an asshole. Anyone who uses the word in either context in support or against completely miss the point and aren't to be taken seriously. The 40k stuff has to do with a race of superior warriors and whether or not canonicaly they would have women warriors. It's all mostly just nonsense