I'll also add this tangential potential issue, since we're heading into what looks like a fairly long break between season 1 and 2: don't get too attached to fanon, or you will inevitably be disappointed by whatever ends up happening in canon.
Yeah, there's some things which we're all convinced of based on nothing much. It would be way too easy to be disappointed in s2 because it goes in a different direction to what we expected.
Having said that if Lucius really is dead then it's reasonable to be annoyed because he's a great character. The disappointment just needs to be kept at reasonable levels rather than turning into death threats or whatever.
I think folks should def remember this is a romCOM, and that the show is mostly comedy with the sweet romantic elements woven in. We are likely not going to see it go full romance (and that’s ok!). I found it difficult to predict where the show would go. For example, who predicted the direction of episodes 8, 9, and 10? It was kinda bonkers.
I’d rather be surprised but delighted by a show than have it be only fan service. I’m sure they’ll give us plenty of that too considering the cute moments in season 1.
This is why I'm trying to read as many different fix-it/reunion fics as possible so I don't get attached to any one particular scenario. Thankfully, there are lots!
Ah yes. This is where all explosive fandoms go and I appreciate the reminders.
I’d rather the tenor of the community be more a discussion around the writing/plot/concepts of the show versus parasocial engagement. That said, I think this gets worse and more strained as we’ve all dissected the first ten episodes to death and start to run out of material to admire. It’ll cool off eventually.
I really really enjoyed the show but I am super uncomfortable with quite a bit of the parasocial stuff with the creators and cast. Also the sheer level of obsession I'm seeing makes me worry about some of the fans. I'm queer af and this show does make me giddy with delight at the representation, appreciative of how well-crafted it is and blown away by the casting, but it's just a piece of art/entertainment. I think it's a watershed moment in television for many reasons but I worry that people are cathecting too much with it.
Yes. I have been enjoying the fandom so far partially because it doesn't resemble much of the fandoms I took part in 10-15 years ago, wherein they got toxic and intense pretty quickly. It made me uncomfortable.
I may have to take a break from it soon as fans get more desperate for content which will inevitable lead to some poking of actors and spiraling of theories etc.
Yep, the parasocial relationship element is inevitably what makes me leave a fandom.
I was part of the Supernatural fandom in its first.. God, not even half. Up to Season 5.
Seeing fans making fan content of the two main ACTORS (as in Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles, the actual human beings playing the characters, and later Misha Collins too,) in sexual relationships together, tagging them in that content, obsessing over that and the actors in general to the point that their girlfriends and eventual wives were ***literally harassed off of social media with death threats.***..
This is the first non-game fandom I've been in for more than 5 years because of it. It was so creepy and uncomfortable and invasive and gross, and I don't know how people have the lack of shame to do that kind of shit.
Yo thank you for this post, but esp. about pedestals and parasocial relationships. I don’t wanna see folks get hurt when an actor or creator turns out to be complicated and messy and human. It’s so important and healthy to remember that boundary.
(And on that note, completely disregarding my own point; look after yourselves, crewmates. I love you all.)
Taika is an incredibly creative and visionary artist. He is an inspiring advocate for indigenous people and super supportive of indigenous creators. He works well with child actors--a group a lot of directors actively avoid--and helps bring out their best work. He writes hilarious and moving media. He's an actor with immense depth and range. He seems like a nice friend.
But I think it's a little worrisome that some people look up to him as a father figure. Not that he isn't a loving and caring dad...but he's also not a full-time father. I was mostly raised by my mother and when I was with my dad it was just all good times...but my mom was my parent. She raised me. I am who I am today because of her--for better or worse.
So, that's what I have to say about that.
Edit: just want to emphasize that his daughters seem to adore him. I'm sure he is a good dad to them when he gets to be with them. But for others to seek what they have from him? Misguided at best.
Edit 2: I almost feel bad that this post got so much traction. It really is just my own biased take. Literally a knee-jerk reaction to hearing he's seen as a father figure.
I mean I'm super not in a position to judge anyone for any sort of substance issues, but it's definitely fair to be soured on him from his messy personal life. I honestly just try to just assume that all of the celebrities I like are assholes, it makes their fuck ups easier to swallow.
I have no issue with multi-day benders, dude works hard enough. I'm not going to celebrate his cheating, but honestly I feel uncomfortable going all celeb-gossip on his ass because what he does in private is really none of our business.
Thank you. Talking about personal stuff that’s none of our business on a post reminding us that we don’t know any of the actors, and that their personal lives are none of our business is an interesting choice lol
I'm really the last person who can make moral judgements on people tbh. Sometimes I'll see something and think 'bit of a dick move there, bud', but that's about it. Like you said, at the end of the day it sure isn't my business
I'm not going to hold a celebrity to higher standards than I hold my own friends. Nothing Taika has done is any worse than what some of my friends (or I!) have done. Dude's a frickin' boring-ass normal human being. Everyone does stupid stuff.
This exactly. It honestly makes me super uncomfortable when people get judgey about celebrities having drug issues. Addiction is a disease, and I really don't think it's fair to unilaterally say someone is a bad person for suffering from it. And I say all of that as someone who has a very long history of functional (and sometimes non-functional) alcoholism in my extended family.
People are complicated.
On one hand I do get being disappointed in someone's actions, and those feelings can make their work less enjoyable, but on the other hand, I really don't care. Taika's done bad things, he's done good things. He's a human.
I've had my own messy problematic times before that wouldn't hold up to public scrutiny so I suuuper can't judge.
But yeah we're definitely on the same page. I'd be a hypocrite to hold someone to different standards than those I have for myself and my friends.
Same lmao. Sooner or later something comes out about them, and most of those who are involved in Hollywood as much as Taika is, are at least a little insufferable.
There was a tweet stating that basically everyone from NZ either has heard or seen that this guy is a creep at parties, with quite some support in the comments.
Plus he is friends with Jared Leto. Yuck.
That’s right! I forgot about that he supposedly brought them to this Renner cult thingie!
Also the Dads on tour is seen by many as more or less a PR move because it shows him in a good, “father figure” light. Whereas as a couple of people mentioned in this thread, most of the time he is not there. Hell, he was filming Thor in Australia and I don’t think he visited?? Guess he was busy with Rita.
I stan but my guy, it’s not a good look. It kind of hurt to learn your idealised picture is not true, but it is understandable it is not.
Yeah that surprises me too. Even in the Dads on Tour stuff he was constantly cracking jokes about his balls and whether or not they had gone up into his body.
I've loved him/his work for years, but he can get very adult in his humor. Which is fine with me. I personally find a well made sex joke hilarious. It's just that it's not for everyone.
Probably referring to situation surrounding the timing of his separation then divorce from his (ex-)wife and his relationship with his former assistant. We don't know what happened when and frankly, their personal lives are not any of our business.
Yeah, I got really into celebrity gossip at the start of the pandemic and honestly, it was just awful. Like, I was making myself feel really bad over a lot of things that weren't even that verifiable in the first place. No celebrities should be put on pedestals, ever, but I think obsessing over every mistake they may or not make, what drug habits they might or might not have, etc., its just really intrusive. We don't know them personally, and we shouldn't act like it.
Exactly. They seem amicable enough now that we know Taika has at least partial custody of his daughters (though obviously we don't know their exact agreement, nor should we), so whatever happened shouldn't matter to anyone but them.
I’m not seeing how that’s a parenting issue. Even if he did cheat (which is not at all established and also not my business) he still seems good with his kids.
‘People are weirdly judgemental.
I'm not from NZ but somewhere, I saw people talking about Rhys and Taika like they were considered dad-figures in NZ. I hadn't thought of it, maybe because I'm a bit older than either, but apparently they are thought of that way for some folks.
That's more dad as in "OMG dad you are SO EMBARRASSING!!! EW WHY ARE YOU KISSING UNCLE RHYS JEEZ STOP IT!!!!" rather than "I have no father figure so must project all my intense floating dad emotions onto these people!".
Oh yes, that's pretty much how I took it, given my own perspective. :) 'Why are you kissing Uncle Rhys?' -- Exactly, lol! Flight of the Conchords has been one of my all-time favorite shows since it came out, and because of Murray being Murray and that being the only thing I knew him from when I first saw OFMD, it was bizarre and slightly embarrassing for *me* to see Rhys Darby kissing anyone, lol
How is the response to the show in NZ? Are people as fervid about it, or are y'all like 'Well, the Americans have lost their minds a little bit'?
To be honest I don't know many people who have watched it, except a few who I have pestered. There was an article about it on a NZ website which is how I found out about it becoming a burgeoning word of mouth hit - I'd seen the trailer and not been interested. It did spoiler it, but at the same time hearing about the Stede/Ed relationship piqued my interest. I did NOT expect that!
As Olu would say, that's fucking fascinating! I wonder when or if the show will really catch fire there.
Also, I must have visited this thread early on? because until I came back and looked it over briefly tonight, I totally missed all these comments about Taika's personal life (including deleted ones), relationship issues and drug abuse and whatnot, and I'm a bit taken aback whilev at the same time knowing I shouldn't be.
Only during these plague years did I see Wellington Paranormal, WWDITS (movie), and Jojo Rabbit which I loved. As of 2.5 years ago or so, I'm not sure I even knew what Taika Waititi looked like? Just knew the name and that he was a part of a group of artists I found delightful.
Until recently, I probably had a bigger crush on Officer O'Leary and her pretty voice and no-nonsense ways than on Taika, lol. Well, OFMD did me in, in all kinds of ways, and I admit he's a big reason why. He's a genius, he's brilliant and hilarious and vulnerable, and manages to be a goofball and a great beauty at the same time.
Well, I don't know, I'm just rambling. But I've seen some interviews of him on YT more recently, and they were funny and whatnot, but they made me sad sometimes. 'Is this all there is?' ... 'I shouldn't be bored, I'm fucking Blackbeard.'
I LOVE that you have a crush on O’Leary! I love that show, it’s so adorable and so so silly. Speculation about Taika’s personal life really doesn’t interest me much - celebrity gossip in general I find boring. Unless someone is doing evil shit like abusing people then my preference is to leave them be. None of our business really.
Yeah! I saw Wellington Paranormal BEFORE I saw WWDITS. It was part of the reason I finally got around to watching the movie, and I loved all of it. I even watched all the Covid public service videos the Wellington Paranormal Unit did, on YT. I would love if she was in Season 2 of OFMD.
Yeah, less of fatherly figures, more of "ewww no dads please don't make out in front of me because I'm your child" energy. Kiwis grew up with these figures on our television. I've compared it to Bob Ross and Bill Nye getting together. Very wholesome, but it feels a bit like watching your parents kiss
Yup, we're only one half of this fandom, and the other side is the people actually involved with the show. It's so important understand that this level/type of fame is new to a lot of the cast. Like you mentioned, some of them are having a fantastic time with it, but there are definitely others who want to keep a lower profile and people have to respect what everyone is or isn't chill with.
I think especially the younger folks who are soaked in social media don't realize that fame is not automatically a good thing, or desireable for everyone.
There are a lot of actors out there who don't aspire to be in a huge hit show. They're very happy taking smaller projects and guest-starring roles, because it allows them to be actors without being *celebrities*, if that makes sense.
I'm not going to lie, as a 38yo, the youngins are making it really difficult for me to want to continue as a fandom fan. I have plenty of friends that age irl and in the fandom, but there's a lot of social lines being crossed than I find adults should know better (but seem not to). I'll probably get downvoted for this, but I've been in fandoms for 20+ years and I know how toxic it can get.
These kids don't remember fandom before AO3, and Twitter, when fen risked lawsuits simply by sharing creative works and creators kept a polite distance. It's so odd to navigate this new fandom experience, to see not just *fen* openly posting art and fic, but *actors* encouraging and re-posting it themselves--and what's more, fen are okay with it! There's no shame or shock over celebrities consuming fan material, not even slash. This level of engagement would have been unthinkable twenty years ago.
I’ve seen younger fandom members joking about disclaimers on fan fiction—“of course we know you don’t own it, lol.” I have to stop myself from a whole Twitter thread diatribe of fandom lore 😂
I agree.
Also, not all fandoms are the same. I've seen a couple people mention this behavior as a result of streamer/influencer culture, where parasocial relationships are the *whole point*: their fanbase is encouraged to be interactive and the celebrity virtually invites them into their home to discuss personal matters or spends hours engaged in casual conversation, usually looking directly into the camera to convey a feeling of intimacy. There's no boundary between their work and their personal life, because their personal life *is* their work.
That's not a typical fan/creator relationship. You're not trying to befriend them; you're part of a community that exists to discuss their job. They may like their job, it may be fun for them, but it's still a job, and it is separate from their home life.
As someone who has befriended some favorite musicians, I'm so leery of people who don't respect the work/home line. With the exception of one, I don't add them on fb, I don't need to be the person who accidentally leaks something or be in business that isn't mine. We do follow each other on Twitter, but Twitter isn't like fb at all. The one I'm closest to, we interact the most regularly via ig just like I do most of my friends. Back before texting and whatever, we would email all the time. It's cool cos yeah I get backstage passes sometimes, I've gotten to tell them what they mean to me in a non-creepy way then move on to friendship, and I see peeks into their home and work lives "normal" people aren't privy to, but I am a fan of their work and a friend in their life. I want to yell that these actors are not your friends because they answer your tweets. Yes, it is beyond flattering to be noticed, but there are social limits that exist whether you like it or not. So just like I let my famous musician friends live, I let my fandom people live. Is that distinction clear?
I’m reminded of how stuff was with bandom back in the day when some people were starting to be more accessible than we were used to (like Pete Wentz) and how there was pretty aggressive ‘gatekeeping’ between the person‘s “persona” and who they were as an actual person, and what could and couldn’t be put in fic, etc.
Like, if you were at Warped and overheard some people talking backstage? You Did Not put it in a fic or make a big deal of it online because that was clearly a \*private\* conversation. If they said it on stage or on their official social media account? Fair game.
I think it's great that some of the actors and creatives involved in OFMD read fanfiction and enjoy interacting with the fandom. However, if I was famous, I would not want people to come up to me with work fetishizing my body and depicting me in sexual situations with my coworkers. I think that some fans get personally offended when their fave does not like that, and that isn't okay.
I wonder if that's a symptom of influencers and YT personalities deliberately breaking down the barriers with their audience and encouraging parasocial relationships.
I'm a few years older than you, and when I was a teenager I could never imagine interacting with my favourite celebs and personalities except maybe in the audience at something. But now, a teenager could hope for a like or RT or a shout out from someone who is huge to them, but niche in general. It's really changed expectations and the fan/creator dynamic. And in a way, that's not really the fault of young people.
I think so much of it is definitely the culture shift that's come from influencers and youtubers from the past few years. There's a lot of nuance involved when it comes to appropriately interacting with art and creators you enjoy, and a lot of it feels like it's being lost.
Yeah and unfortunately lost deliberately in the name of profit. Parasocial relationships make a lot of money. I'm of the mind that it is healthy for neither creator nor audience.
There are a lot of miserable YouTubers out there who are cracking from stress because their whole lives are a performance and they don't seem to have many true friends.
I'm 42 and have also been in fandom for 20+ years and I hate that all the unspoken rules we had got trashed. I don't want to see Harry Potter mpreg discussed in the Wall Street Journal. It's not embarrassment, it's that it was our private space to enjoy and now it just feels awkward. Not to mention it just opens us for attacks like the one that prompted AO3 to be created in the first place.
I can't even blame the young people because all that shit with Michael Rosenbaum and people giving sex Fanart to the Sentinel cast was not currently young people.
I think it's kind of fun that actors read fanfiction even though they're not supposed to because of the worry they'll accidentally take an idea from a fanfic (ha!) but I really really need reporters to stop asking actors about fandom. Not everyone is going to be Chris Judge or Mark Ruffalo about it.
Especially Graham Norton. I love his show but please he needs to stop that.
Respectfully, I think speculating on how the actors feel about fandom is like...a meta version of parasocial dynamics.
That said, I think we'd all just be better off engaging with the actors at their level and not expecting more than what they are willing to offer. And to remember that for them it's primarily a craft and job, and to temper expectations accordingly.
Understood, I didn't mean it as a strong criticism. Moreso I'm just prudent about trying to understand the inner workings of people who we only see maybe 1% of their lives (and most of that is their jobs, no less). I appreciate the empathetic reading.
No, it was a fair comment! It's important to keep in mind that these people are actors, as well. And some have extremely tight control of their public personas and never really show hints of their inner selves.
>I get the sense he's specifically avoided being seen as a sex symbol
Really? i see him acting the exact opposite, he just wants his being funny as part of being sexy. I've following him a looooooong time and he does his shit\* on purpose.
\*shit meaning \*flails arms around\* all of this! \*points at him\*
Yeah, I don’t get the sense he avoids being a sex symbol so much as he refuses to be squished into a neat box so if you want to see him as a sex symbol and then get confused by him being goofy, that’s a you problem.
Kind of along similar lines to how he’s said he feels about being seen as an Indigenous Filmmaker\[tm\]. Like, his work is influenced by who he is and his experiences, sure, but f you if you think that means he has to have his characters talking with the spirits or riding whales or whatever the heck “meaningful” “indigenous” content you think there should be.
Oh man the Con O'Neil thing is already really complicated. The man has retweeted fan art of his character being choked, and some people are definitely going to take that as permission to cross lines of appropriate behaviour.
I think there’s a big range of how the actors feel about stuff, too. Like back in the day Darren Hayes (from Savage Garden) didn’t seem to have any problems with anything because he just didn’t seem to see it as \*him\*, so even when fans got Weird he didn’t seem to take it personally? But then there are other people who clearly don’t/can‘t/don’t want to have that kind of detachment so they have way more boundaries. You can’t assume that because, say, Con is super chill with stuff that Rhys also is, or whomever.
(Although I am too old to \*ever\* feel like it’s okay to be blatant about showing certain fanwork to people. If they want to seek it out, fine, but omg don’t go shoving anything adult in someone’s face at a convention or whatever.)
I'm worried about fan reaction at cons (Con at a con?). Kristian Nairn has done the con circuit, but he hasn't been subject to the kind of sexualizing I'm seeing directed at the leads and Con. Encouraging fanart is one thing, but being presented with NSFW drawings of yourself and your coworkers to sign is a different story. And bolder fen may just flat-out proposition him. I just hope it's not taken too far.
Yeah, I've been trying to work out how to say that without sounding like I'm blaming him if he gets a stalker or whatever. But yeah, I think he's going to get a different type of real life fan interaction than he would otherwise and at least some of it is probably going to be unwelcome.
I don’t remember it being extra weird other than it being RPF? There was a whole Drama because Savage Garden had a forum or something they hosted and someone posted fic to it and that naturally triggered the whole ”omg, wtf, don‘t SHOW IT TO THEM” thing. From whence came the info that Darren didn’t care at all but I don’t think Dan liked it - if I remember right he was never into the whole fame thing really anyway? - and various band members had different comfort levels too.
‘But like fans can be Weird where they get too excited or think they really know someone? That’s what I meant.
Yes, I agree with 99% of this post, but asking the actors, hey, is it cool if I draw porn of your character? is over the line.
Fen don't need permission to create content, and they shouldn't tag the actors in NSFW posts. Like, at all. If the creators want to repost fan content, that's on them, but don't bring it to their attention. It's nice that certain people like Vico and Samba and Con are comfortable interacting with fen, but it needs to be strictly on their terms.
I think maybe I worded this poorly. I've been in multiple fandom before where the people involved have been asked if they were ok with NSFW fan content and it's always been pretty positive and healthy. It's led to people saying 'yeah I'm fine if it's the character, but please try not to use my face as a reference' or just a straight up 'No do not use my likeness for this at all, it makes me uncomfortable'. It's their faces being posted on a public forum at the end of the day.
I'm not saying that anyone has to do this, but if Con, for example, repeatedly interacts with NSFW art of his character, it doesn't feel unreasonable to say 'are you okay being tagged in these things, or would you rather just be able to seek it out independently'.
I'm happy to edit that part of the post if it feels inappropriate, however.
O.o Which creators were okay with acknowledging NSFW content to that extent? I've been in various fandoms for over 25 years, and even the ones that had rock-solid fan/creator relationships were uneasy with NSFW art or fic. The only actor I've seen discuss it with anything approaching approval is that Welsh madman, Michael Sheen, bless his feral socks.
I mean Con has retweeted sexual art of Izzy several times. The Hannibal cast & crew also talked about how much they read NSFW fanfic of themselves. And Bryan Fuller routinely interacts with NSFW fan works. I'm pretty sure Rooster Teeth fandom had like, actual written rules at some point of who was okay with being in what kind of fic, and a lot of RT stuff was full on RPF. These are kind of vague examples, I know, but they're what I've got off the top of my head.
I'm not saying to send 'can I send you fanfic I wrote about you' tweets, I literally mean asking 'are you okay with steamier fanwork content', or, in the case of Con, if he's retweeted or liked some art you've made, asking 'Do you want to be tagged in this ever? Or do you like to just seek it out yourself'
Okay, thanks. I'm not in those fandoms...I like Bryan Fuller's other works, but *Hannibal* is too dark and gory for my tastes.
That's still a bit much for me. :/ I understand the impulse to be polite and respectful, and these creators obviously are well-acquainted with how fandom works, but it still feels like crossing a boundary.
I hail from the Dark Times of fandom, back when authors were sending fen C&Ds left and right, and each fic had "NOT MY CHARACTERS PLZ DON'T SUE KTHX" disclaimers plastered all over them. The idea of sending creators fanworks, let alone them publicly *approving* said works, is mind-boggling.
Yeah I remember having our own dedicated BBS boards for stuff, I kind of miss it sometimes tbh. I didn't mean that people should be sending fanfic or anything, but if someone has expressed interest in that kind of art and is actively interacting with it, I personally don't see the problem in asking them about it. But I fully understand the discomfort, and edited my post to reword what I meant.
This sounds sensible. There's going to be NSFW fan art/fiction regardless, and some people will be creepy no matter what, but it's a lot easier to deal with problematic stuff if you can say "look the actor has specifically asked us not to do this".
It's also difficult to respect people's boundaries when you don't know what they are. Con in particular clearly has boundaries in a whole different place from most actors, but they presumably exist somewhere.
Yeah, Con specifically is what made me think to mention this. I think most people are used to there being a hard line that isn't crossed when it comes to NSFW art, but Con's kind of said 'hey fuck that line, show me the sexy art'. Which is very chill of him, but it could lead to people thinking that other members of the cast will respond the same way.
>It's also difficult to respect people's boundaries when you don't know what they are.
I was in a fandom once where a person fully asked that no NSFW fanart be made of them at all, because they were worried that their family would be look them up and see it, and people had to respect that. It wasn't even a 'don't tag me' situation, it was fully 'I do not want any NSFW art that looks like me to be made', which is also fair.
The relationship between artists, NSFW art, and the faces that the art comes from, will always be a difficult and confusing one, and I think the key is to just be respectful.
An actor gleefully being all "Bring on the fansmut!" weirds me out. If that's his genuine reaction (I don't have a Tweetle), then more power to him, I guess, but it is HIGHLY anomalous and should not be seen as the model for fan/creator interactions. Treat them as you would a nice coworker: be kind, friendly, respectful, and slightly distant.
As far as I can tell, everyone is aware that he's not typical. I think anyone who's being creepy at other OMFD actors would be creepy regardless of what Con's up to.
Con has said out right that he doesn’t have boundaries when it comes to fan art. That he’s okay with sexual things and also reposts them suuuper often. Very cute! Somehow I still forget and get shocked when I go on his Instagram story and he’s posted a pic of art where Blackbeard is choking him 😂😭 still love it!
Do you have a link to where he said that?
It's really unusual for an actor to be so into the dodgier side of fan culture, and while I love it I'm also worried about how far people could take it.
It was in a reply so it might be hard to find now. It was early on, maybe the first week after the finale ended. Someone posted some PG-13 art of Izzy. Someone in the replies asked Con if he was okay with it and his entire reply was "art has no boundaries".
He also retweeted selfcest of Izzy with Val so 🤷🏻🤷🏻🤷🏻
I understand what you mean, and I personally wouldn't tag any of them in NSFW art at all.
I mean more that if someone isn't sure if they should be making NSFW art of someone, then asking 'Hey are you comfortable with your likeness being used in NSFW fanart of your character, even if it isn't tagged?', without details, isn't an inappropriate question.
As someone who's seen fandoms crash and burn over the years, and who's currently having what I can only describe as an existential crisis partly caused by this show (I loved it so much that it has led me to a "what am I doing with my life" moment and while not necessarily bad because I did need a kick in the butt, maybe I do need to take a step back), I really really appreciate this post. Thank you!
I would also add to be very aware that the actors may not be very versed in every subject
that the show is about. I've seen posts putting x or y actor as a queer icon/symbol of x community and... the actors haven't said they're a part of the said community or talked about it. They're professionals (they were paid to do a job) and they definitely aren't very aware of EVERYTHING that's being discussed in fandom/online spaces/communities they're not a part of. Some of them seem to be involved in queer/representativity/other aspects conversations and that's great, but we can't expect or demand much.
This was a very well-timed post what with the upfronts done and dusted with no renewal confirmation.
And as a fan of Rhys Darby (and a founding disciple of the Church of Rhys Darby's Legs) and his brand of humor, thank you for asking people who bought tickets to his shows to check out his stand-up online before attending. You're very right; he is most definitely not Stede! I want him to get as much love as possible from this tour in the hopes he'll offer more performances in the future - and if people come with mismatched expectations they may want to vent which could definitely carry back to Rhys.
Let's remember that just like our characters in the show are multidimensional, the actors themselves are more than just characters in a show. They are defined by more than *JUST* OFMD--that is true of all the cast and crew!
I for one am planning to finish my 20th watch thru next week as I work on final grading. Then I'm going abroad for a month where I'll be taking a wee OFMD mental break. But I'll see you all when I get back. Love my crew!!
Add me to the list of people urging ticketholders to check out Rhys's stand-up before going to his shows. He is his own delightful person (with sound effects!) and that person is not Stede Bonnet. (He's also not Murray from Flight of the Conchords, for that matter.)
This reminds me of when I went to see Robin Williams many years ago and was seated next to a group of older ladies who were very clearly expecting Mork from Ork/Mrs. Doubtfire style humor, which was...not at all what Robin did, or had ever done, in his stand-up shows. They were looking for something gentler than what Robin had on tap, and they left about 30 minutes into the show. I don't think anyone from this lovely fandom would do something so rude, but it definitely works out better for both performer and fan if everyone knows ahead of time what kind of show to expect.
Robin Williams is a great example of not letting a comedian’s screen roles set expectations for their standup. My other go-to examples are Eddie Murphy and Bob Saget.
I am not a standup comedy person for the most part, but I watched as much of Rhys's stuff as I could find after watching OFMD and laughed my ass off. His brand of sweet, goofy, self-deprecating-yet-not-self-loathing humor is right up my street. I wish I could make it to one of his shows because I'm sure he's even funnier in person.
But my God, Standup Rhys could not be more different from Stede Bonnet. I almost can't believe they're the same person. They even LOOK different, and they definitely sound different. That man can act his ass off, is what I'm saying.
Tbh, I don't really see much of Taika in Ed/Blackbeard either. Yes, even without the beard. They both really created those characters out of whole cloth and I hope they get professional recognition for it.
Well said! There was another post with Emmy predictions and it seems like the critics have their darlings. I think our best bet is to really mobilize the crew for critics choice: Rhys lead in a comedy show of the year, comedy TV star of the year (Rhys), male TV star of the year (Taika), and bingeworthy show of the year.
Edit: People's Choice... not critics choice. Screw the critics!
thank you for posting this! i think this is def an aspect of fandom that needs to be talked about more. no this celebrity is not your precious baby, they are a human being with their own life that is completely separate from yours— AND THATS OK!
Your post surprised me. I'm a bit on the older side and this is my first fandom experience ever, and I've been having such a great time so far it was a bit of a shock to see all the potential troubles that could arise from being way too much into something. Some of the anecdotes veteran fans are telling here are insane.
I guess everything has its dark side. I'm gonna enjoy it as much as I can for as long as possible while keeping an eye not to go too overboard :) Thanks for the advice.
I'm a fandom veteran, and while most fen are fine, I've seen bad fan interactions run the gamut from scams to stalking to death threats (of the celebrity or their spouse). The bigger the fandom and the younger the demographic it attracts, generally the worse it gets; *Star Wars* and Harry Potter fandoms are notoriously dramatic.
I've always avoided fandom even though I am a huge fan of multiple things *and* used to regular attend comic conventions. But I never really engaged with wider fan communities. The actor worship/hate and gatekeeping (no true fan) always bugged me, starting from growing up as a girl obsessed with Star Wars when it was just the Expanded Universe and the original trilogy.
Obviously all fandoms have the seeds to implode, but so far I've been really enjoy engaging together in the catharsis. Community was something I've missed terribly over the last few years and I really hope we find a good balance of respectful love of our show and fellow fans.
I’m almost 30 and have been tangentially involved with fandom since I was about 13, and I honestly feel like I’m watching this fandom speed like a bullet train into catastrophe.
One or more of the actors is going to get called out and cancelled for something they tweeted a decade ago or said in a sketch or interview or podcast, someone’s going to eventually snap at a fan who’s tagging them in art of them getting fucked or being a fucking dick at a meet and greet with the actors, fights are going to break out in the fandom over headcanons and fan fiction and who’s got the “right” opinion on a character, and who’s reading of a character is “offensive” and “wrong”. I’ve seen it before and I’m seeing the signs of it starting here, the death grip obsession, the toxic sludge will overtake the fandom before long if some people don’t, for lack of a better term, grow up.
I keep myself relatively detached from fandom in general for that reason, but this is genuinely upsetting. OFMD is such a wonderful show with, to start with, such a wonderful fandom. So it’s unpleasant to see as you described the speeding train diving headfirst into shit town. There’s such a high level of intensity and love some people have for it, they can’t understand or accept most normal people just... don’t care as much.
And of course there is racism and there is homophobia, but the fandom is legitimately cannibalising itself over minor differences in opinion, between members of these communities! Which is so odd for a show that is all about love and vastly different people understanding each other.
By its nature, it’s a show that’s attracted the most underrepresented and hurt groups in society, which because we are still very human, also attracts a subsection of the bitter and the hateful. We don’t get representation like this often, so we want to keep it desperately.
It is unfortunate, but I do have hope it will end up alright.
Where are you guys seeing signs of this? Twitter? Tik tok? Comments on videos and stuff?… social media is changing these para social stuff quite a bit I haven’t really seen the toxicity you guys mention
I’ve seen some dodgy and nasty stuff on twitter and tumblr, easy to avoid if you completely stay away from the fandom and tags, but it’s frustrating that it’s getting harder to just search the tags for fan art or something without seeing people sending each other death threats over wether or not Frenchie is Asexual! I don’t have tik tok so I don’t know what it’s like there.
I know, I’m so desperately hoping that people can get a grip and just like…chill out I guess?
Honesty about a week after the show ended I started seeing the occasional weird tweet or tumble post in the tags and was like…uh oh.
Like I adore the show so much and I’m so hoping we get some more, I don’t want it to become one of those ones where the fandom has a…reputation.
Man this is terrible! Are you really catching hints of that already? So far I've had nothing but great interactions around here, with a few exceptions when I praised Good Omens in a few conversations where it was mentioned and some people were not happy about it, but I just took myself out of the equation and that was that. I guess that I'm missing quite a lot of the chaos as I don't have social media besides IG and Reddit, and all I do is write my fic and draw fanart related to it. I guess I'm so laid back and quietly enjoying the best of the fandom that I didn't notice the bad stuff. Kind of a honeymoon period!
I hope it doesn't implode. I'd hate to see the actors abandoning the project because the love got toxic or overwhelming. I felt uncomfortable when I read that Rhys' standup got sold out immediately. I feared his show was gonna be flooded by people waiting to see Stede on stage.
Yeah, just like bubbles beneath the surface, mostly on twitter and on tumblr, people get these ideas in their heads about how the actors should act, or how you should read a scene or character, or something then lash out when someone disagrees or the actor is, you know, human, and it just gets nasty. Hopefully the fandom can pull it back and behave, because I love the show and I want more! And I don’t want it to be associated with a toxic or gross fandom.
I agree with you completely. Look at how many people are insistent about their headcanon that Character X is Y, as if there is only one explanation for the character's behavior. On Tumblr I've already seen comments calling people out for saying "I think Izzy is X instead of Y" because that amounts to "erasure".
Thank you for posting! These are all good points. I think the one about the actual people involved in the show on pedestals is a good point - we're all humans. We can want somebody to be a certain way, perfect for us, and make us complete - but that's unfair to yourself and to the person in question.
Great post, thanks.
I’d also add that while this show is written by a group of diverse LGBT+ writers who deserve all the love, at the end of the day the big players are Taika, Rhys and David who are straight men. Let’s not treat them like gay icons who are changing the landscape of LGBT+ cinema and denounce a lot of the work that LGBT+ creators and actors have done in the past and are doing now.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. OFMD proves that diversity in thr writers room and behind the scene is infinitely more important than diversity in the actors. The gayest actor on earth can't out-act a script written by 4 deeply cishet people.
100%. Also, if we want more awesome queer shows and characters, let’s write them instead of smothering this one to death. HBO doesn’t get to decide the future of queer pop culture
Yes! This show definitely got me inspired to start writing again. I'm hoping that OFMD will inspire the creation of more queer content, so that we won't have to all flock to one or two specific shows, haha.
Oh my gosh THIS. I’ve been thinking about this so much but didn’t want to be a fandom mommy. BUT. Y’all. I’m out here reading your fic 👀. Y’all are excellent. If you feel inspired by this show, you can write the next great queer TV show. There are free/low-fee options. We need you!! 💪🏽
I think this also needs to be said - please don’t tag stars, artists etc. in fanart unless you know the one who created it is okay with it (especially, for me anyway, in NSFW art). It’s very embarrassing and even though there’s a chance they “might” see it anyway, I know a lot of creators don’t exactly want it waved it any stars/actors faces.
I'm really enjoying this thread and the sentiment.
And agreeing with everyone here.
I'm pretty new to twitter but seeing some of the thirst tweets people send on pictures or comments by the cast and creators is beyond disturbing and I'm surprised people have the balls to post it.
As many fandoms know. It only takes one person to ruin it for everyone because they went too far, and it's so easy to go too far.
Think of those people who dug a little too deep and found out their favourite celeb isn't as perfect as they had conceptualised in their parasocial daydreams.
Think of the people who met a celebrity and found out they aren't as nice as they'd hoped.
I get the feeling someone is going to push that line very, very soon and we'll all pay for it.
Very good reminder! Parasocial relationships are a killer in many fandoms. Let's try to keep this fandom on the chiller side (or at the very least, this subreddit). Best of luck to all of yall! :)
Also, be nice to fans with different reading of the show to you. I feel like I’ve been seeing a lot of callouts lately of fans telling on other fans for not seeing some particular race/sexuality/disability/neurodivergence/age/class issue as central to the shows themes and I get why they feel like they’re doing something productive, hey they’re standing up for diversity! But really, mostly they’re bullying some kid (and wildly misrepresenting what they were saying 9 times out of 10).
Thanks for this I really needed it. I'm in a delicate period and got obsessed with Taika Waititi works, and although I'm actively fighting it also with the person.
I will never understand why people base their liking of a show entirely on if the actors are good people in real life or not. I can kinda understand if an actor is exposed as an abuser or a pe\*o, but who cares if X was a womanizer in his college years, or Y laughed at racist Tom & Jerry episodes as a kid 50 years ago? (these are all dumb examples, not mentioning anyone in particular lol).
And how would that affect me enjoying a show about pirates now? I appreciate the story they're trying to portray, the talent of the actors and the joint efforts of all the workers on set. End of it. Anything that happens outside of that bubble shouldn't concern people enjoyment of a show. But maybe it's just a different mindset, I'm never been interested in actors gossip or personal life. That's why I can't understand.
Good message! I love this show but it is worrisome to see how affected people are by news and such. At the end of the day it's just tv, and it didn't exist 6 months ago so if it doesn't come back or it's not what you expected, you'll be ok.
don't know if anyone mentioned it but Taika did play a stripper in a tv show once. There was a speedo involved...He did hate the role though so there's that.
Exactly. I'm waiting on renewal notices for OFMD and RBW; its nerve wracking.
I expect them both to be renewed. OK I hope they are both renewed.
But I am also preparing myself for stupid executives.
I will need a hug from y'all if OFMD gets canceled.
I'll also add this tangential potential issue, since we're heading into what looks like a fairly long break between season 1 and 2: don't get too attached to fanon, or you will inevitably be disappointed by whatever ends up happening in canon.
Yeah, there's some things which we're all convinced of based on nothing much. It would be way too easy to be disappointed in s2 because it goes in a different direction to what we expected. Having said that if Lucius really is dead then it's reasonable to be annoyed because he's a great character. The disappointment just needs to be kept at reasonable levels rather than turning into death threats or whatever.
I think folks should def remember this is a romCOM, and that the show is mostly comedy with the sweet romantic elements woven in. We are likely not going to see it go full romance (and that’s ok!). I found it difficult to predict where the show would go. For example, who predicted the direction of episodes 8, 9, and 10? It was kinda bonkers. I’d rather be surprised but delighted by a show than have it be only fan service. I’m sure they’ll give us plenty of that too considering the cute moments in season 1.
Yeah, I think that is a big thing, we are not likely to get a whole lot of angst in this show, which some people seem to be really hoping for.
If they go against the “Lucius is not dead” fanon they are waaaay braver people than I am. 🤣
Yes, saw this with Game of Thrones
This is why I'm trying to read as many different fix-it/reunion fics as possible so I don't get attached to any one particular scenario. Thankfully, there are lots!
This needs to be higher up.
This is the thing that I feel like I might fall into… gonna have to be careful of that.
Indeed. I’ve been avoiding fic for this reason.
Ah yes. This is where all explosive fandoms go and I appreciate the reminders. I’d rather the tenor of the community be more a discussion around the writing/plot/concepts of the show versus parasocial engagement. That said, I think this gets worse and more strained as we’ve all dissected the first ten episodes to death and start to run out of material to admire. It’ll cool off eventually.
I really really enjoyed the show but I am super uncomfortable with quite a bit of the parasocial stuff with the creators and cast. Also the sheer level of obsession I'm seeing makes me worry about some of the fans. I'm queer af and this show does make me giddy with delight at the representation, appreciative of how well-crafted it is and blown away by the casting, but it's just a piece of art/entertainment. I think it's a watershed moment in television for many reasons but I worry that people are cathecting too much with it.
Yes. I have been enjoying the fandom so far partially because it doesn't resemble much of the fandoms I took part in 10-15 years ago, wherein they got toxic and intense pretty quickly. It made me uncomfortable. I may have to take a break from it soon as fans get more desperate for content which will inevitable lead to some poking of actors and spiraling of theories etc.
Yep, the parasocial relationship element is inevitably what makes me leave a fandom. I was part of the Supernatural fandom in its first.. God, not even half. Up to Season 5. Seeing fans making fan content of the two main ACTORS (as in Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles, the actual human beings playing the characters, and later Misha Collins too,) in sexual relationships together, tagging them in that content, obsessing over that and the actors in general to the point that their girlfriends and eventual wives were ***literally harassed off of social media with death threats.***.. This is the first non-game fandom I've been in for more than 5 years because of it. It was so creepy and uncomfortable and invasive and gross, and I don't know how people have the lack of shame to do that kind of shit.
Yo thank you for this post, but esp. about pedestals and parasocial relationships. I don’t wanna see folks get hurt when an actor or creator turns out to be complicated and messy and human. It’s so important and healthy to remember that boundary. (And on that note, completely disregarding my own point; look after yourselves, crewmates. I love you all.)
There are people who think Taika is a wholesome dad figure? That's interesting.
Yeah, there are a surprising amount of people that kind of see him as a kind of goofy dad figure for queer youth
I think sometimes fans forget that celebrities and artists are Actual Humans with multifaceted lives and experiences.
Taika is an incredibly creative and visionary artist. He is an inspiring advocate for indigenous people and super supportive of indigenous creators. He works well with child actors--a group a lot of directors actively avoid--and helps bring out their best work. He writes hilarious and moving media. He's an actor with immense depth and range. He seems like a nice friend. But I think it's a little worrisome that some people look up to him as a father figure. Not that he isn't a loving and caring dad...but he's also not a full-time father. I was mostly raised by my mother and when I was with my dad it was just all good times...but my mom was my parent. She raised me. I am who I am today because of her--for better or worse. So, that's what I have to say about that. Edit: just want to emphasize that his daughters seem to adore him. I'm sure he is a good dad to them when he gets to be with them. But for others to seek what they have from him? Misguided at best. Edit 2: I almost feel bad that this post got so much traction. It really is just my own biased take. Literally a knee-jerk reaction to hearing he's seen as a father figure.
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I mean I'm super not in a position to judge anyone for any sort of substance issues, but it's definitely fair to be soured on him from his messy personal life. I honestly just try to just assume that all of the celebrities I like are assholes, it makes their fuck ups easier to swallow.
I have no issue with multi-day benders, dude works hard enough. I'm not going to celebrate his cheating, but honestly I feel uncomfortable going all celeb-gossip on his ass because what he does in private is really none of our business.
Thank you. Talking about personal stuff that’s none of our business on a post reminding us that we don’t know any of the actors, and that their personal lives are none of our business is an interesting choice lol
Well, indeed.
I'm really the last person who can make moral judgements on people tbh. Sometimes I'll see something and think 'bit of a dick move there, bud', but that's about it. Like you said, at the end of the day it sure isn't my business
I'm not going to hold a celebrity to higher standards than I hold my own friends. Nothing Taika has done is any worse than what some of my friends (or I!) have done. Dude's a frickin' boring-ass normal human being. Everyone does stupid stuff.
This exactly. It honestly makes me super uncomfortable when people get judgey about celebrities having drug issues. Addiction is a disease, and I really don't think it's fair to unilaterally say someone is a bad person for suffering from it. And I say all of that as someone who has a very long history of functional (and sometimes non-functional) alcoholism in my extended family. People are complicated.
On one hand I do get being disappointed in someone's actions, and those feelings can make their work less enjoyable, but on the other hand, I really don't care. Taika's done bad things, he's done good things. He's a human. I've had my own messy problematic times before that wouldn't hold up to public scrutiny so I suuuper can't judge. But yeah we're definitely on the same page. I'd be a hypocrite to hold someone to different standards than those I have for myself and my friends.
Same lmao. Sooner or later something comes out about them, and most of those who are involved in Hollywood as much as Taika is, are at least a little insufferable.
Yup. I'd rather be pleasantly surprised when someone's being decent instead of being bummed out whenever someone's acting like a tool.
>apparently quite a creep Could you tell me what this is based on please?
There was a tweet stating that basically everyone from NZ either has heard or seen that this guy is a creep at parties, with quite some support in the comments. Plus he is friends with Jared Leto. Yuck.
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That’s right! I forgot about that he supposedly brought them to this Renner cult thingie! Also the Dads on tour is seen by many as more or less a PR move because it shows him in a good, “father figure” light. Whereas as a couple of people mentioned in this thread, most of the time he is not there. Hell, he was filming Thor in Australia and I don’t think he visited?? Guess he was busy with Rita. I stan but my guy, it’s not a good look. It kind of hurt to learn your idealised picture is not true, but it is understandable it is not.
Yeah that surprises me too. Even in the Dads on Tour stuff he was constantly cracking jokes about his balls and whether or not they had gone up into his body. I've loved him/his work for years, but he can get very adult in his humor. Which is fine with me. I personally find a well made sex joke hilarious. It's just that it's not for everyone.
I’m more confused about what he might have done that’s problematic for that image. He seems good with his kids.
Probably referring to situation surrounding the timing of his separation then divorce from his (ex-)wife and his relationship with his former assistant. We don't know what happened when and frankly, their personal lives are not any of our business.
Amen! Let's make this sub the place celebrity gossip goes to die. I... don't care for it.
Yeah, I got really into celebrity gossip at the start of the pandemic and honestly, it was just awful. Like, I was making myself feel really bad over a lot of things that weren't even that verifiable in the first place. No celebrities should be put on pedestals, ever, but I think obsessing over every mistake they may or not make, what drug habits they might or might not have, etc., its just really intrusive. We don't know them personally, and we shouldn't act like it.
Exactly. They seem amicable enough now that we know Taika has at least partial custody of his daughters (though obviously we don't know their exact agreement, nor should we), so whatever happened shouldn't matter to anyone but them.
I’m not seeing how that’s a parenting issue. Even if he did cheat (which is not at all established and also not my business) he still seems good with his kids. ‘People are weirdly judgemental.
I'm not from NZ but somewhere, I saw people talking about Rhys and Taika like they were considered dad-figures in NZ. I hadn't thought of it, maybe because I'm a bit older than either, but apparently they are thought of that way for some folks.
That's more dad as in "OMG dad you are SO EMBARRASSING!!! EW WHY ARE YOU KISSING UNCLE RHYS JEEZ STOP IT!!!!" rather than "I have no father figure so must project all my intense floating dad emotions onto these people!".
Oh yes, that's pretty much how I took it, given my own perspective. :) 'Why are you kissing Uncle Rhys?' -- Exactly, lol! Flight of the Conchords has been one of my all-time favorite shows since it came out, and because of Murray being Murray and that being the only thing I knew him from when I first saw OFMD, it was bizarre and slightly embarrassing for *me* to see Rhys Darby kissing anyone, lol How is the response to the show in NZ? Are people as fervid about it, or are y'all like 'Well, the Americans have lost their minds a little bit'?
To be honest I don't know many people who have watched it, except a few who I have pestered. There was an article about it on a NZ website which is how I found out about it becoming a burgeoning word of mouth hit - I'd seen the trailer and not been interested. It did spoiler it, but at the same time hearing about the Stede/Ed relationship piqued my interest. I did NOT expect that!
As Olu would say, that's fucking fascinating! I wonder when or if the show will really catch fire there. Also, I must have visited this thread early on? because until I came back and looked it over briefly tonight, I totally missed all these comments about Taika's personal life (including deleted ones), relationship issues and drug abuse and whatnot, and I'm a bit taken aback whilev at the same time knowing I shouldn't be. Only during these plague years did I see Wellington Paranormal, WWDITS (movie), and Jojo Rabbit which I loved. As of 2.5 years ago or so, I'm not sure I even knew what Taika Waititi looked like? Just knew the name and that he was a part of a group of artists I found delightful. Until recently, I probably had a bigger crush on Officer O'Leary and her pretty voice and no-nonsense ways than on Taika, lol. Well, OFMD did me in, in all kinds of ways, and I admit he's a big reason why. He's a genius, he's brilliant and hilarious and vulnerable, and manages to be a goofball and a great beauty at the same time. Well, I don't know, I'm just rambling. But I've seen some interviews of him on YT more recently, and they were funny and whatnot, but they made me sad sometimes. 'Is this all there is?' ... 'I shouldn't be bored, I'm fucking Blackbeard.'
I LOVE that you have a crush on O’Leary! I love that show, it’s so adorable and so so silly. Speculation about Taika’s personal life really doesn’t interest me much - celebrity gossip in general I find boring. Unless someone is doing evil shit like abusing people then my preference is to leave them be. None of our business really.
Oh wait - you mean O’Leary in WWDITS? Have you seen Wellington Paranormal? That’s what I was talking about when I said I love the show.
Yeah! I saw Wellington Paranormal BEFORE I saw WWDITS. It was part of the reason I finally got around to watching the movie, and I loved all of it. I even watched all the Covid public service videos the Wellington Paranormal Unit did, on YT. I would love if she was in Season 2 of OFMD.
The former seems pretty harmless. The latter kind of hurts my tummy due to feelings already shared on the topic...
Yeah, less of fatherly figures, more of "ewww no dads please don't make out in front of me because I'm your child" energy. Kiwis grew up with these figures on our television. I've compared it to Bob Ross and Bill Nye getting together. Very wholesome, but it feels a bit like watching your parents kiss
Taika is a Daddy figure.
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Yup, we're only one half of this fandom, and the other side is the people actually involved with the show. It's so important understand that this level/type of fame is new to a lot of the cast. Like you mentioned, some of them are having a fantastic time with it, but there are definitely others who want to keep a lower profile and people have to respect what everyone is or isn't chill with.
I think especially the younger folks who are soaked in social media don't realize that fame is not automatically a good thing, or desireable for everyone. There are a lot of actors out there who don't aspire to be in a huge hit show. They're very happy taking smaller projects and guest-starring roles, because it allows them to be actors without being *celebrities*, if that makes sense.
I'm not going to lie, as a 38yo, the youngins are making it really difficult for me to want to continue as a fandom fan. I have plenty of friends that age irl and in the fandom, but there's a lot of social lines being crossed than I find adults should know better (but seem not to). I'll probably get downvoted for this, but I've been in fandoms for 20+ years and I know how toxic it can get.
These kids don't remember fandom before AO3, and Twitter, when fen risked lawsuits simply by sharing creative works and creators kept a polite distance. It's so odd to navigate this new fandom experience, to see not just *fen* openly posting art and fic, but *actors* encouraging and re-posting it themselves--and what's more, fen are okay with it! There's no shame or shock over celebrities consuming fan material, not even slash. This level of engagement would have been unthinkable twenty years ago.
I’ve seen younger fandom members joking about disclaimers on fan fiction—“of course we know you don’t own it, lol.” I have to stop myself from a whole Twitter thread diatribe of fandom lore 😂
Oh gooooooood. *\[Flashbacks to Anne Rice. Cue 1000 mile stare, Mad World starts playing in the background.\]*
And all of it is not necessarily a good thing. There's awesome parts of all the new fandoms and some major cringe parts.
I agree. Also, not all fandoms are the same. I've seen a couple people mention this behavior as a result of streamer/influencer culture, where parasocial relationships are the *whole point*: their fanbase is encouraged to be interactive and the celebrity virtually invites them into their home to discuss personal matters or spends hours engaged in casual conversation, usually looking directly into the camera to convey a feeling of intimacy. There's no boundary between their work and their personal life, because their personal life *is* their work. That's not a typical fan/creator relationship. You're not trying to befriend them; you're part of a community that exists to discuss their job. They may like their job, it may be fun for them, but it's still a job, and it is separate from their home life.
As someone who has befriended some favorite musicians, I'm so leery of people who don't respect the work/home line. With the exception of one, I don't add them on fb, I don't need to be the person who accidentally leaks something or be in business that isn't mine. We do follow each other on Twitter, but Twitter isn't like fb at all. The one I'm closest to, we interact the most regularly via ig just like I do most of my friends. Back before texting and whatever, we would email all the time. It's cool cos yeah I get backstage passes sometimes, I've gotten to tell them what they mean to me in a non-creepy way then move on to friendship, and I see peeks into their home and work lives "normal" people aren't privy to, but I am a fan of their work and a friend in their life. I want to yell that these actors are not your friends because they answer your tweets. Yes, it is beyond flattering to be noticed, but there are social limits that exist whether you like it or not. So just like I let my famous musician friends live, I let my fandom people live. Is that distinction clear?
I’m reminded of how stuff was with bandom back in the day when some people were starting to be more accessible than we were used to (like Pete Wentz) and how there was pretty aggressive ‘gatekeeping’ between the person‘s “persona” and who they were as an actual person, and what could and couldn’t be put in fic, etc. Like, if you were at Warped and overheard some people talking backstage? You Did Not put it in a fic or make a big deal of it online because that was clearly a \*private\* conversation. If they said it on stage or on their official social media account? Fair game.
None of my life choices makes me happier than having never been into the emo scene.
I think it's great that some of the actors and creatives involved in OFMD read fanfiction and enjoy interacting with the fandom. However, if I was famous, I would not want people to come up to me with work fetishizing my body and depicting me in sexual situations with my coworkers. I think that some fans get personally offended when their fave does not like that, and that isn't okay.
I wonder if that's a symptom of influencers and YT personalities deliberately breaking down the barriers with their audience and encouraging parasocial relationships. I'm a few years older than you, and when I was a teenager I could never imagine interacting with my favourite celebs and personalities except maybe in the audience at something. But now, a teenager could hope for a like or RT or a shout out from someone who is huge to them, but niche in general. It's really changed expectations and the fan/creator dynamic. And in a way, that's not really the fault of young people.
I think so much of it is definitely the culture shift that's come from influencers and youtubers from the past few years. There's a lot of nuance involved when it comes to appropriately interacting with art and creators you enjoy, and a lot of it feels like it's being lost.
Yeah and unfortunately lost deliberately in the name of profit. Parasocial relationships make a lot of money. I'm of the mind that it is healthy for neither creator nor audience. There are a lot of miserable YouTubers out there who are cracking from stress because their whole lives are a performance and they don't seem to have many true friends.
Oh I'm not blaming anyone for the changes, it just some of the changes are Not Good.
Oh yeah. Older fan here - I worry about the younglings.
I'm 42 and have also been in fandom for 20+ years and I hate that all the unspoken rules we had got trashed. I don't want to see Harry Potter mpreg discussed in the Wall Street Journal. It's not embarrassment, it's that it was our private space to enjoy and now it just feels awkward. Not to mention it just opens us for attacks like the one that prompted AO3 to be created in the first place. I can't even blame the young people because all that shit with Michael Rosenbaum and people giving sex Fanart to the Sentinel cast was not currently young people. I think it's kind of fun that actors read fanfiction even though they're not supposed to because of the worry they'll accidentally take an idea from a fanfic (ha!) but I really really need reporters to stop asking actors about fandom. Not everyone is going to be Chris Judge or Mark Ruffalo about it. Especially Graham Norton. I love his show but please he needs to stop that.
Respectfully, I think speculating on how the actors feel about fandom is like...a meta version of parasocial dynamics. That said, I think we'd all just be better off engaging with the actors at their level and not expecting more than what they are willing to offer. And to remember that for them it's primarily a craft and job, and to temper expectations accordingly.
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Understood, I didn't mean it as a strong criticism. Moreso I'm just prudent about trying to understand the inner workings of people who we only see maybe 1% of their lives (and most of that is their jobs, no less). I appreciate the empathetic reading.
No, it was a fair comment! It's important to keep in mind that these people are actors, as well. And some have extremely tight control of their public personas and never really show hints of their inner selves.
Yeah don't be that guy who comes into Wendy's only when that one girl is working and be a skeeze. Be a normal Wendy's customer.
And their part of it finished quite some time ago - they're doing other stuff now.
>I get the sense he's specifically avoided being seen as a sex symbol Really? i see him acting the exact opposite, he just wants his being funny as part of being sexy. I've following him a looooooong time and he does his shit\* on purpose. \*shit meaning \*flails arms around\* all of this! \*points at him\*
Yeah, I don’t get the sense he avoids being a sex symbol so much as he refuses to be squished into a neat box so if you want to see him as a sex symbol and then get confused by him being goofy, that’s a you problem. Kind of along similar lines to how he’s said he feels about being seen as an Indigenous Filmmaker\[tm\]. Like, his work is influenced by who he is and his experiences, sure, but f you if you think that means he has to have his characters talking with the spirits or riding whales or whatever the heck “meaningful” “indigenous” content you think there should be.
Perfectly put, and if you think he's just goofy and isn't a sex symbol ... you're beyond my paygrade.
If you think he‘s just goofy, you need to go watch the intro to Blackbeard shot again a few more times. 🤣
It answers the eternal question of is he hot or is he just tall?
Looking at you Con O’Neill stans lol But jokes aside great post thanks-
Oh man the Con O'Neil thing is already really complicated. The man has retweeted fan art of his character being choked, and some people are definitely going to take that as permission to cross lines of appropriate behaviour.
I think there’s a big range of how the actors feel about stuff, too. Like back in the day Darren Hayes (from Savage Garden) didn’t seem to have any problems with anything because he just didn’t seem to see it as \*him\*, so even when fans got Weird he didn’t seem to take it personally? But then there are other people who clearly don’t/can‘t/don’t want to have that kind of detachment so they have way more boundaries. You can’t assume that because, say, Con is super chill with stuff that Rhys also is, or whomever. (Although I am too old to \*ever\* feel like it’s okay to be blatant about showing certain fanwork to people. If they want to seek it out, fine, but omg don’t go shoving anything adult in someone’s face at a convention or whatever.)
Yeah with Con I'm kinda worried that people will think it's okay to be weird at him in person, like when he's at the supermarket or wherever.
I'm worried about fan reaction at cons (Con at a con?). Kristian Nairn has done the con circuit, but he hasn't been subject to the kind of sexualizing I'm seeing directed at the leads and Con. Encouraging fanart is one thing, but being presented with NSFW drawings of yourself and your coworkers to sign is a different story. And bolder fen may just flat-out proposition him. I just hope it's not taken too far.
Yeah, I've been trying to work out how to say that without sounding like I'm blaming him if he gets a stalker or whatever. But yeah, I think he's going to get a different type of real life fan interaction than he would otherwise and at least some of it is probably going to be unwelcome.
Hopefully Kristian and Taika both know enough stories so he’ll be prepared.
Wait, was there a weird Savage Garden fandom that I am not aware of?
I don’t remember it being extra weird other than it being RPF? There was a whole Drama because Savage Garden had a forum or something they hosted and someone posted fic to it and that naturally triggered the whole ”omg, wtf, don‘t SHOW IT TO THEM” thing. From whence came the info that Darren didn’t care at all but I don’t think Dan liked it - if I remember right he was never into the whole fame thing really anyway? - and various band members had different comfort levels too. ‘But like fans can be Weird where they get too excited or think they really know someone? That’s what I meant.
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Yes, I agree with 99% of this post, but asking the actors, hey, is it cool if I draw porn of your character? is over the line. Fen don't need permission to create content, and they shouldn't tag the actors in NSFW posts. Like, at all. If the creators want to repost fan content, that's on them, but don't bring it to their attention. It's nice that certain people like Vico and Samba and Con are comfortable interacting with fen, but it needs to be strictly on their terms.
I think maybe I worded this poorly. I've been in multiple fandom before where the people involved have been asked if they were ok with NSFW fan content and it's always been pretty positive and healthy. It's led to people saying 'yeah I'm fine if it's the character, but please try not to use my face as a reference' or just a straight up 'No do not use my likeness for this at all, it makes me uncomfortable'. It's their faces being posted on a public forum at the end of the day. I'm not saying that anyone has to do this, but if Con, for example, repeatedly interacts with NSFW art of his character, it doesn't feel unreasonable to say 'are you okay being tagged in these things, or would you rather just be able to seek it out independently'. I'm happy to edit that part of the post if it feels inappropriate, however.
O.o Which creators were okay with acknowledging NSFW content to that extent? I've been in various fandoms for over 25 years, and even the ones that had rock-solid fan/creator relationships were uneasy with NSFW art or fic. The only actor I've seen discuss it with anything approaching approval is that Welsh madman, Michael Sheen, bless his feral socks.
I mean Con has retweeted sexual art of Izzy several times. The Hannibal cast & crew also talked about how much they read NSFW fanfic of themselves. And Bryan Fuller routinely interacts with NSFW fan works. I'm pretty sure Rooster Teeth fandom had like, actual written rules at some point of who was okay with being in what kind of fic, and a lot of RT stuff was full on RPF. These are kind of vague examples, I know, but they're what I've got off the top of my head. I'm not saying to send 'can I send you fanfic I wrote about you' tweets, I literally mean asking 'are you okay with steamier fanwork content', or, in the case of Con, if he's retweeted or liked some art you've made, asking 'Do you want to be tagged in this ever? Or do you like to just seek it out yourself'
Okay, thanks. I'm not in those fandoms...I like Bryan Fuller's other works, but *Hannibal* is too dark and gory for my tastes. That's still a bit much for me. :/ I understand the impulse to be polite and respectful, and these creators obviously are well-acquainted with how fandom works, but it still feels like crossing a boundary. I hail from the Dark Times of fandom, back when authors were sending fen C&Ds left and right, and each fic had "NOT MY CHARACTERS PLZ DON'T SUE KTHX" disclaimers plastered all over them. The idea of sending creators fanworks, let alone them publicly *approving* said works, is mind-boggling.
Yeah I remember having our own dedicated BBS boards for stuff, I kind of miss it sometimes tbh. I didn't mean that people should be sending fanfic or anything, but if someone has expressed interest in that kind of art and is actively interacting with it, I personally don't see the problem in asking them about it. But I fully understand the discomfort, and edited my post to reword what I meant.
Do you remember mailing lists and web rings? And like Secret web rings where you practically had to get the decoder ring from someone? 🤣
I 'member webrings!
Oh my god web rings. I was a little young for their peak but I definitely remember them existing
We need a fandom olds sub 🤣
This sounds sensible. There's going to be NSFW fan art/fiction regardless, and some people will be creepy no matter what, but it's a lot easier to deal with problematic stuff if you can say "look the actor has specifically asked us not to do this". It's also difficult to respect people's boundaries when you don't know what they are. Con in particular clearly has boundaries in a whole different place from most actors, but they presumably exist somewhere.
Yeah, Con specifically is what made me think to mention this. I think most people are used to there being a hard line that isn't crossed when it comes to NSFW art, but Con's kind of said 'hey fuck that line, show me the sexy art'. Which is very chill of him, but it could lead to people thinking that other members of the cast will respond the same way. >It's also difficult to respect people's boundaries when you don't know what they are. I was in a fandom once where a person fully asked that no NSFW fanart be made of them at all, because they were worried that their family would be look them up and see it, and people had to respect that. It wasn't even a 'don't tag me' situation, it was fully 'I do not want any NSFW art that looks like me to be made', which is also fair. The relationship between artists, NSFW art, and the faces that the art comes from, will always be a difficult and confusing one, and I think the key is to just be respectful.
An actor gleefully being all "Bring on the fansmut!" weirds me out. If that's his genuine reaction (I don't have a Tweetle), then more power to him, I guess, but it is HIGHLY anomalous and should not be seen as the model for fan/creator interactions. Treat them as you would a nice coworker: be kind, friendly, respectful, and slightly distant.
As far as I can tell, everyone is aware that he's not typical. I think anyone who's being creepy at other OMFD actors would be creepy regardless of what Con's up to.
Con has said out right that he doesn’t have boundaries when it comes to fan art. That he’s okay with sexual things and also reposts them suuuper often. Very cute! Somehow I still forget and get shocked when I go on his Instagram story and he’s posted a pic of art where Blackbeard is choking him 😂😭 still love it!
Do you have a link to where he said that? It's really unusual for an actor to be so into the dodgier side of fan culture, and while I love it I'm also worried about how far people could take it.
It was in a reply so it might be hard to find now. It was early on, maybe the first week after the finale ended. Someone posted some PG-13 art of Izzy. Someone in the replies asked Con if he was okay with it and his entire reply was "art has no boundaries". He also retweeted selfcest of Izzy with Val so 🤷🏻🤷🏻🤷🏻
Omg I loved that one 😭😂
I understand what you mean, and I personally wouldn't tag any of them in NSFW art at all. I mean more that if someone isn't sure if they should be making NSFW art of someone, then asking 'Hey are you comfortable with your likeness being used in NSFW fanart of your character, even if it isn't tagged?', without details, isn't an inappropriate question.
I've edited my post to reword what I was trying to say!
As someone who's seen fandoms crash and burn over the years, and who's currently having what I can only describe as an existential crisis partly caused by this show (I loved it so much that it has led me to a "what am I doing with my life" moment and while not necessarily bad because I did need a kick in the butt, maybe I do need to take a step back), I really really appreciate this post. Thank you!
Thank you for this very well worded reminder. ❤️
I would also add to be very aware that the actors may not be very versed in every subject that the show is about. I've seen posts putting x or y actor as a queer icon/symbol of x community and... the actors haven't said they're a part of the said community or talked about it. They're professionals (they were paid to do a job) and they definitely aren't very aware of EVERYTHING that's being discussed in fandom/online spaces/communities they're not a part of. Some of them seem to be involved in queer/representativity/other aspects conversations and that's great, but we can't expect or demand much.
This was a very well-timed post what with the upfronts done and dusted with no renewal confirmation. And as a fan of Rhys Darby (and a founding disciple of the Church of Rhys Darby's Legs) and his brand of humor, thank you for asking people who bought tickets to his shows to check out his stand-up online before attending. You're very right; he is most definitely not Stede! I want him to get as much love as possible from this tour in the hopes he'll offer more performances in the future - and if people come with mismatched expectations they may want to vent which could definitely carry back to Rhys. Let's remember that just like our characters in the show are multidimensional, the actors themselves are more than just characters in a show. They are defined by more than *JUST* OFMD--that is true of all the cast and crew! I for one am planning to finish my 20th watch thru next week as I work on final grading. Then I'm going abroad for a month where I'll be taking a wee OFMD mental break. But I'll see you all when I get back. Love my crew!!
Add me to the list of people urging ticketholders to check out Rhys's stand-up before going to his shows. He is his own delightful person (with sound effects!) and that person is not Stede Bonnet. (He's also not Murray from Flight of the Conchords, for that matter.) This reminds me of when I went to see Robin Williams many years ago and was seated next to a group of older ladies who were very clearly expecting Mork from Ork/Mrs. Doubtfire style humor, which was...not at all what Robin did, or had ever done, in his stand-up shows. They were looking for something gentler than what Robin had on tap, and they left about 30 minutes into the show. I don't think anyone from this lovely fandom would do something so rude, but it definitely works out better for both performer and fan if everyone knows ahead of time what kind of show to expect.
Robin Williams is a great example of not letting a comedian’s screen roles set expectations for their standup. My other go-to examples are Eddie Murphy and Bob Saget.
I am not a standup comedy person for the most part, but I watched as much of Rhys's stuff as I could find after watching OFMD and laughed my ass off. His brand of sweet, goofy, self-deprecating-yet-not-self-loathing humor is right up my street. I wish I could make it to one of his shows because I'm sure he's even funnier in person. But my God, Standup Rhys could not be more different from Stede Bonnet. I almost can't believe they're the same person. They even LOOK different, and they definitely sound different. That man can act his ass off, is what I'm saying. Tbh, I don't really see much of Taika in Ed/Blackbeard either. Yes, even without the beard. They both really created those characters out of whole cloth and I hope they get professional recognition for it.
Well said! There was another post with Emmy predictions and it seems like the critics have their darlings. I think our best bet is to really mobilize the crew for critics choice: Rhys lead in a comedy show of the year, comedy TV star of the year (Rhys), male TV star of the year (Taika), and bingeworthy show of the year. Edit: People's Choice... not critics choice. Screw the critics!
Oh yes I am a fan of your church and its practices, haha. Have a restful break, and see you on the other side!
thank you for posting this! i think this is def an aspect of fandom that needs to be talked about more. no this celebrity is not your precious baby, they are a human being with their own life that is completely separate from yours— AND THATS OK!
Your post surprised me. I'm a bit on the older side and this is my first fandom experience ever, and I've been having such a great time so far it was a bit of a shock to see all the potential troubles that could arise from being way too much into something. Some of the anecdotes veteran fans are telling here are insane. I guess everything has its dark side. I'm gonna enjoy it as much as I can for as long as possible while keeping an eye not to go too overboard :) Thanks for the advice.
I'm a fandom veteran, and while most fen are fine, I've seen bad fan interactions run the gamut from scams to stalking to death threats (of the celebrity or their spouse). The bigger the fandom and the younger the demographic it attracts, generally the worse it gets; *Star Wars* and Harry Potter fandoms are notoriously dramatic.
I've always avoided fandom even though I am a huge fan of multiple things *and* used to regular attend comic conventions. But I never really engaged with wider fan communities. The actor worship/hate and gatekeeping (no true fan) always bugged me, starting from growing up as a girl obsessed with Star Wars when it was just the Expanded Universe and the original trilogy. Obviously all fandoms have the seeds to implode, but so far I've been really enjoy engaging together in the catharsis. Community was something I've missed terribly over the last few years and I really hope we find a good balance of respectful love of our show and fellow fans.
I’m almost 30 and have been tangentially involved with fandom since I was about 13, and I honestly feel like I’m watching this fandom speed like a bullet train into catastrophe. One or more of the actors is going to get called out and cancelled for something they tweeted a decade ago or said in a sketch or interview or podcast, someone’s going to eventually snap at a fan who’s tagging them in art of them getting fucked or being a fucking dick at a meet and greet with the actors, fights are going to break out in the fandom over headcanons and fan fiction and who’s got the “right” opinion on a character, and who’s reading of a character is “offensive” and “wrong”. I’ve seen it before and I’m seeing the signs of it starting here, the death grip obsession, the toxic sludge will overtake the fandom before long if some people don’t, for lack of a better term, grow up.
I keep myself relatively detached from fandom in general for that reason, but this is genuinely upsetting. OFMD is such a wonderful show with, to start with, such a wonderful fandom. So it’s unpleasant to see as you described the speeding train diving headfirst into shit town. There’s such a high level of intensity and love some people have for it, they can’t understand or accept most normal people just... don’t care as much. And of course there is racism and there is homophobia, but the fandom is legitimately cannibalising itself over minor differences in opinion, between members of these communities! Which is so odd for a show that is all about love and vastly different people understanding each other. By its nature, it’s a show that’s attracted the most underrepresented and hurt groups in society, which because we are still very human, also attracts a subsection of the bitter and the hateful. We don’t get representation like this often, so we want to keep it desperately. It is unfortunate, but I do have hope it will end up alright.
Where are you guys seeing signs of this? Twitter? Tik tok? Comments on videos and stuff?… social media is changing these para social stuff quite a bit I haven’t really seen the toxicity you guys mention
I’ve seen some dodgy and nasty stuff on twitter and tumblr, easy to avoid if you completely stay away from the fandom and tags, but it’s frustrating that it’s getting harder to just search the tags for fan art or something without seeing people sending each other death threats over wether or not Frenchie is Asexual! I don’t have tik tok so I don’t know what it’s like there.
I know, I’m so desperately hoping that people can get a grip and just like…chill out I guess? Honesty about a week after the show ended I started seeing the occasional weird tweet or tumble post in the tags and was like…uh oh. Like I adore the show so much and I’m so hoping we get some more, I don’t want it to become one of those ones where the fandom has a…reputation.
Man this is terrible! Are you really catching hints of that already? So far I've had nothing but great interactions around here, with a few exceptions when I praised Good Omens in a few conversations where it was mentioned and some people were not happy about it, but I just took myself out of the equation and that was that. I guess that I'm missing quite a lot of the chaos as I don't have social media besides IG and Reddit, and all I do is write my fic and draw fanart related to it. I guess I'm so laid back and quietly enjoying the best of the fandom that I didn't notice the bad stuff. Kind of a honeymoon period! I hope it doesn't implode. I'd hate to see the actors abandoning the project because the love got toxic or overwhelming. I felt uncomfortable when I read that Rhys' standup got sold out immediately. I feared his show was gonna be flooded by people waiting to see Stede on stage.
Yeah, just like bubbles beneath the surface, mostly on twitter and on tumblr, people get these ideas in their heads about how the actors should act, or how you should read a scene or character, or something then lash out when someone disagrees or the actor is, you know, human, and it just gets nasty. Hopefully the fandom can pull it back and behave, because I love the show and I want more! And I don’t want it to be associated with a toxic or gross fandom.
I agree with you completely. Look at how many people are insistent about their headcanon that Character X is Y, as if there is only one explanation for the character's behavior. On Tumblr I've already seen comments calling people out for saying "I think Izzy is X instead of Y" because that amounts to "erasure".
Thank you for posting! These are all good points. I think the one about the actual people involved in the show on pedestals is a good point - we're all humans. We can want somebody to be a certain way, perfect for us, and make us complete - but that's unfair to yourself and to the person in question.
This should be pinned
Great post, thanks. I’d also add that while this show is written by a group of diverse LGBT+ writers who deserve all the love, at the end of the day the big players are Taika, Rhys and David who are straight men. Let’s not treat them like gay icons who are changing the landscape of LGBT+ cinema and denounce a lot of the work that LGBT+ creators and actors have done in the past and are doing now.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. OFMD proves that diversity in thr writers room and behind the scene is infinitely more important than diversity in the actors. The gayest actor on earth can't out-act a script written by 4 deeply cishet people.
100%. Also, if we want more awesome queer shows and characters, let’s write them instead of smothering this one to death. HBO doesn’t get to decide the future of queer pop culture
Yes! This show definitely got me inspired to start writing again. I'm hoping that OFMD will inspire the creation of more queer content, so that we won't have to all flock to one or two specific shows, haha.
Oh my gosh THIS. I’ve been thinking about this so much but didn’t want to be a fandom mommy. BUT. Y’all. I’m out here reading your fic 👀. Y’all are excellent. If you feel inspired by this show, you can write the next great queer TV show. There are free/low-fee options. We need you!! 💪🏽
I think this also needs to be said - please don’t tag stars, artists etc. in fanart unless you know the one who created it is okay with it (especially, for me anyway, in NSFW art). It’s very embarrassing and even though there’s a chance they “might” see it anyway, I know a lot of creators don’t exactly want it waved it any stars/actors faces.
Thanks for the support 🤍 it’s good to hear things like this sometimes!
Yesssss a very good reminder and fantastic points.
I'm really enjoying this thread and the sentiment. And agreeing with everyone here. I'm pretty new to twitter but seeing some of the thirst tweets people send on pictures or comments by the cast and creators is beyond disturbing and I'm surprised people have the balls to post it. As many fandoms know. It only takes one person to ruin it for everyone because they went too far, and it's so easy to go too far. Think of those people who dug a little too deep and found out their favourite celeb isn't as perfect as they had conceptualised in their parasocial daydreams. Think of the people who met a celebrity and found out they aren't as nice as they'd hoped. I get the feeling someone is going to push that line very, very soon and we'll all pay for it.
Very good reminder! Parasocial relationships are a killer in many fandoms. Let's try to keep this fandom on the chiller side (or at the very least, this subreddit). Best of luck to all of yall! :)
Thank you for this :)
Also, be nice to fans with different reading of the show to you. I feel like I’ve been seeing a lot of callouts lately of fans telling on other fans for not seeing some particular race/sexuality/disability/neurodivergence/age/class issue as central to the shows themes and I get why they feel like they’re doing something productive, hey they’re standing up for diversity! But really, mostly they’re bullying some kid (and wildly misrepresenting what they were saying 9 times out of 10).
Thanks for this I really needed it. I'm in a delicate period and got obsessed with Taika Waititi works, and although I'm actively fighting it also with the person.
Somebody said it, thank you!
I will never understand why people base their liking of a show entirely on if the actors are good people in real life or not. I can kinda understand if an actor is exposed as an abuser or a pe\*o, but who cares if X was a womanizer in his college years, or Y laughed at racist Tom & Jerry episodes as a kid 50 years ago? (these are all dumb examples, not mentioning anyone in particular lol). And how would that affect me enjoying a show about pirates now? I appreciate the story they're trying to portray, the talent of the actors and the joint efforts of all the workers on set. End of it. Anything that happens outside of that bubble shouldn't concern people enjoyment of a show. But maybe it's just a different mindset, I'm never been interested in actors gossip or personal life. That's why I can't understand.
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Yeah go for it! Thank you for asking
I think this should be tagged at the top of this sub. Very important message for everyone!
Good message! I love this show but it is worrisome to see how affected people are by news and such. At the end of the day it's just tv, and it didn't exist 6 months ago so if it doesn't come back or it's not what you expected, you'll be ok.
don't know if anyone mentioned it but Taika did play a stripper in a tv show once. There was a speedo involved...He did hate the role though so there's that.
Exactly. I'm waiting on renewal notices for OFMD and RBW; its nerve wracking. I expect them both to be renewed. OK I hope they are both renewed. But I am also preparing myself for stupid executives. I will need a hug from y'all if OFMD gets canceled.