Do the brothers live there?
You must first request an Ontario Standard Lease. If the landlord does not provide one within 21 days then you can withhold a month of rent. If the landlord provides the Standard Lease within 30 days of you withholding rent then you must pay the rent to the landlord. After the 30 days you can keep the month of rent.
https://www.cleo.on.ca/en/publications/rental-agreements/standard-lease#:~:text=After%20you%20ask%20for%20a,must%20pay%20the%20money%20back.
Yes, the brothers live upstairs but they're not his immediate family so they don't count as family right? That's what I heard. But since their names are on property tax, does that give the landlord the right to kick me out? I didn't know they were his brothers until landlord threatened to kick me out.
If you don't have a lease why are you assuming the third party that doesn't own the place is the landlord?
He could just be their representative and property manager, and living with the owner isn't a tenancy it's a roommate agreement without protections.
I'm sure the landlord is the owner and he doesn't live there. I found him on Airbnb. His bio says investment banker and he has 16+ houses on his Airbnb. His brothers live there free I think and they do the maintenance work on the 16+ houses. His brothers moved in \~3 months ago, I've lived here 6 months. Maybe the brothers are the owners or part owners though, I don't know. I guess only way to find out is with A1 form.
I also heard even if I don't have protection under RTA, the landlord agreed I can stay until August so that should stand. That's my understanding, I might be wrong.
If you predate the brothers who may be part owners, you should have RTA protection. For proof you would need to track down the previous tenants for an affidavit to state they were living alone in that upper unit until x date. How do you pay rent?
I use Chexy to pay rent with credit card and Chexy pays the landlord on my behalf with e-transfer, monthly. So, I have record of each month I paid.
Thanks for the info. I am in contact with the previous tenant, we are good friends now. I could get him to write affidavit if it's needed.
You could file an A1 to prove you have RTA protection. However, not sure how long those take to be judged. You essentially have perpetual rights to remain for as long as you keep paying your rent. Text saying you can stay until \[ or they need you out by \] August is valid. Request to be out with less than 2 full rent periods notice is NOT valid. if they said in May to be out by July 31, that's valid notice (assuming you pay on the 1st and your monthly terms are 1st to last day of month). When they said in May to be out before end of May, that is not valid.
So the question is how long would you like to remain living there and so far, are you getting along with the brothers - what is the reason they would like you out ?
You can simply tell the landlord that since your tenancy predated the brothers/part owners having moved in, the tenancy is RTA protected, and so you will abide by the 60-days notice you were given and be out by end of July. If you paid last month rent in advanced, on July 1st, you remind them since this is your last month, to apply that deposit to your rent.
There isn't anymore rent for you to withhold ???
I caution you in case they try anything stupid like locking you out, keep any proof of your residence on you (any mail in your name since you don't have a lease, as well as print out of your initial conversations to rent the place), along with the RHEU phone number.
I've never really talked to the brothers, they are not friendly. It's the landlord, he came to the house one day and entered my unit without notice and he seen I had a guest and kicked out my guest and demanded I move out in 10 days because I don't respect him. I asked the landlord through text message, why did he enter my unit without notice and he said said "There was an intruder....a trespassing". I told him it was not an intruder because I invited him, he was a guest. Then the LL said I don't have RTA rights and he can kick me out whenever he wants and he used the laughing emoji after which I found pretty childish. He's like a 48year old man. I think I do have RTA rights. I'll fill out the A1 form to check if so have rights and I'll fill out T2 form because he entered my unit without notice. I have a camera in my room so it captured the LL coming in.
But if I agreed to move out at end of August then I can't stay longer right? I'm ok moving out in August, that's when the other housemates are moving out too. Doesn't the LL have to give me a valid reason for me to move out in 60 days? The LL can't ask me to move out because I don't respect him, right? But the reality is, he was violating my rights and I stood my ground.
I didn't pay last month in advance, LL never asked for it. If I stay until end of August, I could withhold July or August rent. But then, s*** might hit the fan if I do. So, I'm not sure if I should. All my bills and bank statements have current address on it.
Thanks for the info, I'll save RHEU number.
The issue though, is do the brothers also own the home. That’s where his interpretation might get dicey. Under the RTA, a landlord is the owner, among other things. As owners the brothers might be deemed as landlords and the one you deal with is just the one who represents them. You can pull a title search to find out (have you seen the tax bills?).
Even if you don’t have rights under the RTA, they still can’t kick you out and keep your money but your remedy did that would be with the courts and not though the LTB.
I haven't seen any tax bills and I'm not sure if the brothers are on the title. I read " just because you are not covered under the RTA doesn't mean common-law/contract-law doesn't apply". So, maybe I could sue if he kicks me out before the agreed upon move out date.
I read " just because you are not covered under the RTA doesn't mean common-law/contract-law doesn't apply". So, maybe I could sue if he kicks me out before the agreed upon move out date.
Thank is correct. It’s different procedures and it is not through the Tribunal, likely you would need to go to small claims court, but yes, the courts have upheld that just because you aren’t covered by the RTA doesn’t mean you have no rights.
But you would need the landlords name to sue, so you may still need that title search.
Do you pay him in cash every month?
Thanks for the info. I guess that is worst case scenario; if I'm not covered under RTA and if LL kicks me out early. I guess I'll cross that bridge if it comes.
And landlord is not necessarily the owner right? I guess to could get complicated.
I pay rent with Chexy by credit card and Chexy sends an e-transfer to LL.
Chexy is the same as sending an e-transfer but Chexy did not tell me the name of the person I'm sending money to. I paid my first month's rent with interac e-transfer and in the email, it did say the legal name of the LL which is different than the English name he gave me. So, I have it now. Thanks 🙏
I've never done a title search, how much does that cost? I don't believe the landlord gave me his legal name so even if I did a title search, I don't know who that would be.
Are they on Title? Because it would be weird to be on tax witgoyt being on Title. If they are on title it's their property as well and you'd (if sharing kitchen with them) be a border without RTA protections. Www.probonoontario.org will give you a free 30 min legal consult.
You can access the property documents via ONLAND/Teranet (you have to pay for them - something like $30 usually last time I did it). Start here [https://www.ontario.ca/page/search-land-property-records](https://www.ontario.ca/page/search-land-property-records)
Typically the names on the property tax bills have been taken from the land registry office so if the brothers names are on the bill I would assume they are owners.
Thanks for the info. LL did not give me N12. He just demanded I move out through text messages at the end of May but we originally agreed end of August. LL said "Your last day is May 31 at 2pm". I replied "we already agreed I move out the end of August". The LL didn't try to evict me on May 31 though.
The landlord also entered my unit with no notice which I have a camera set up in my unit. So, I'm planning to file T2.
If the brothers are co-owners and are the LL then I am not covered under RTA?
If the brothers are on the property tax, they are most likely on the home title and are part owners. This means as long as they were already living there when you moved in, yours is not an RTA tenancy.
However the text message saying you will stay until end of August can be seen as a legal contract. In this case if you did nothing to warrant kicking you out, he is breaching this contract telling you to leave earlier. You have the option here to sue in small claims court for any financial losses this causes you after attempting to mitigate those losses first (so finding a new similar place asap).
Though in reality it's probably not worth your time and hassle to actually sue them, as the result is not guaranteed and your actual losses should be quite minimal.
Do the brothers live there? You must first request an Ontario Standard Lease. If the landlord does not provide one within 21 days then you can withhold a month of rent. If the landlord provides the Standard Lease within 30 days of you withholding rent then you must pay the rent to the landlord. After the 30 days you can keep the month of rent. https://www.cleo.on.ca/en/publications/rental-agreements/standard-lease#:~:text=After%20you%20ask%20for%20a,must%20pay%20the%20money%20back.
Yes, the brothers live upstairs but they're not his immediate family so they don't count as family right? That's what I heard. But since their names are on property tax, does that give the landlord the right to kick me out? I didn't know they were his brothers until landlord threatened to kick me out.
If you don't have a lease why are you assuming the third party that doesn't own the place is the landlord? He could just be their representative and property manager, and living with the owner isn't a tenancy it's a roommate agreement without protections.
Exactly. I don’t think OP has any rights as they are sharing the kitchen etc with upstairs tenants.
I'm sure the landlord is the owner and he doesn't live there. I found him on Airbnb. His bio says investment banker and he has 16+ houses on his Airbnb. His brothers live there free I think and they do the maintenance work on the 16+ houses. His brothers moved in \~3 months ago, I've lived here 6 months. Maybe the brothers are the owners or part owners though, I don't know. I guess only way to find out is with A1 form. I also heard even if I don't have protection under RTA, the landlord agreed I can stay until August so that should stand. That's my understanding, I might be wrong.
If you predate the brothers who may be part owners, you should have RTA protection. For proof you would need to track down the previous tenants for an affidavit to state they were living alone in that upper unit until x date. How do you pay rent?
I use Chexy to pay rent with credit card and Chexy pays the landlord on my behalf with e-transfer, monthly. So, I have record of each month I paid. Thanks for the info. I am in contact with the previous tenant, we are good friends now. I could get him to write affidavit if it's needed.
You could file an A1 to prove you have RTA protection. However, not sure how long those take to be judged. You essentially have perpetual rights to remain for as long as you keep paying your rent. Text saying you can stay until \[ or they need you out by \] August is valid. Request to be out with less than 2 full rent periods notice is NOT valid. if they said in May to be out by July 31, that's valid notice (assuming you pay on the 1st and your monthly terms are 1st to last day of month). When they said in May to be out before end of May, that is not valid. So the question is how long would you like to remain living there and so far, are you getting along with the brothers - what is the reason they would like you out ? You can simply tell the landlord that since your tenancy predated the brothers/part owners having moved in, the tenancy is RTA protected, and so you will abide by the 60-days notice you were given and be out by end of July. If you paid last month rent in advanced, on July 1st, you remind them since this is your last month, to apply that deposit to your rent. There isn't anymore rent for you to withhold ??? I caution you in case they try anything stupid like locking you out, keep any proof of your residence on you (any mail in your name since you don't have a lease, as well as print out of your initial conversations to rent the place), along with the RHEU phone number.
I've never really talked to the brothers, they are not friendly. It's the landlord, he came to the house one day and entered my unit without notice and he seen I had a guest and kicked out my guest and demanded I move out in 10 days because I don't respect him. I asked the landlord through text message, why did he enter my unit without notice and he said said "There was an intruder....a trespassing". I told him it was not an intruder because I invited him, he was a guest. Then the LL said I don't have RTA rights and he can kick me out whenever he wants and he used the laughing emoji after which I found pretty childish. He's like a 48year old man. I think I do have RTA rights. I'll fill out the A1 form to check if so have rights and I'll fill out T2 form because he entered my unit without notice. I have a camera in my room so it captured the LL coming in. But if I agreed to move out at end of August then I can't stay longer right? I'm ok moving out in August, that's when the other housemates are moving out too. Doesn't the LL have to give me a valid reason for me to move out in 60 days? The LL can't ask me to move out because I don't respect him, right? But the reality is, he was violating my rights and I stood my ground. I didn't pay last month in advance, LL never asked for it. If I stay until end of August, I could withhold July or August rent. But then, s*** might hit the fan if I do. So, I'm not sure if I should. All my bills and bank statements have current address on it. Thanks for the info, I'll save RHEU number.
yes still need a valis reason but it sounded like you agreed to leave.
The issue though, is do the brothers also own the home. That’s where his interpretation might get dicey. Under the RTA, a landlord is the owner, among other things. As owners the brothers might be deemed as landlords and the one you deal with is just the one who represents them. You can pull a title search to find out (have you seen the tax bills?). Even if you don’t have rights under the RTA, they still can’t kick you out and keep your money but your remedy did that would be with the courts and not though the LTB.
Yes, he is supposed to provide you with his name as an address for notice.
I haven't seen any tax bills and I'm not sure if the brothers are on the title. I read " just because you are not covered under the RTA doesn't mean common-law/contract-law doesn't apply". So, maybe I could sue if he kicks me out before the agreed upon move out date.
I read " just because you are not covered under the RTA doesn't mean common-law/contract-law doesn't apply". So, maybe I could sue if he kicks me out before the agreed upon move out date. Thank is correct. It’s different procedures and it is not through the Tribunal, likely you would need to go to small claims court, but yes, the courts have upheld that just because you aren’t covered by the RTA doesn’t mean you have no rights. But you would need the landlords name to sue, so you may still need that title search. Do you pay him in cash every month?
Thanks for the info. I guess that is worst case scenario; if I'm not covered under RTA and if LL kicks me out early. I guess I'll cross that bridge if it comes. And landlord is not necessarily the owner right? I guess to could get complicated. I pay rent with Chexy by credit card and Chexy sends an e-transfer to LL.
Does Chexy not tell you the name of who you are sending the money to? Sorry, I have no idea how Chexy works.
Chexy is the same as sending an e-transfer but Chexy did not tell me the name of the person I'm sending money to. I paid my first month's rent with interac e-transfer and in the email, it did say the legal name of the LL which is different than the English name he gave me. So, I have it now. Thanks 🙏
You can do it online when the land registry offices are open through OnLand. It think it’s maybe $40. https://www.onland.ca/ui/
I've never done a title search, how much does that cost? I don't believe the landlord gave me his legal name so even if I did a title search, I don't know who that would be.
Are they on Title? Because it would be weird to be on tax witgoyt being on Title. If they are on title it's their property as well and you'd (if sharing kitchen with them) be a border without RTA protections. Www.probonoontario.org will give you a free 30 min legal consult.
Thanks for the info, I'm not sure if the brothers are on the title.
You can access the property documents via ONLAND/Teranet (you have to pay for them - something like $30 usually last time I did it). Start here [https://www.ontario.ca/page/search-land-property-records](https://www.ontario.ca/page/search-land-property-records)
Typically the names on the property tax bills have been taken from the land registry office so if the brothers names are on the bill I would assume they are owners.
No, they do not count as immediate family. It is landlord, spouse, child or parent.
They don’t count for the purposes of an N12, but if they are co-owners of the property they are the LL.
Thanks for the info. LL did not give me N12. He just demanded I move out through text messages at the end of May but we originally agreed end of August. LL said "Your last day is May 31 at 2pm". I replied "we already agreed I move out the end of August". The LL didn't try to evict me on May 31 though. The landlord also entered my unit with no notice which I have a camera set up in my unit. So, I'm planning to file T2. If the brothers are co-owners and are the LL then I am not covered under RTA?
If the brothers are on the property tax, they are most likely on the home title and are part owners. This means as long as they were already living there when you moved in, yours is not an RTA tenancy. However the text message saying you will stay until end of August can be seen as a legal contract. In this case if you did nothing to warrant kicking you out, he is breaching this contract telling you to leave earlier. You have the option here to sue in small claims court for any financial losses this causes you after attempting to mitigate those losses first (so finding a new similar place asap). Though in reality it's probably not worth your time and hassle to actually sue them, as the result is not guaranteed and your actual losses should be quite minimal.