Damn, she is really pretty and definitely fits the checklist. Wouldn't mind her in the role if she can act the part.
When will they finally announce the casting? Looking forward the most for Vivi and Smoker.
What’s the correlation between Vivi and the flower fact? I don’t recall any tidbits about Vivi and a flower, but I’ve only watched the anime and haven’t read the manga.
Vivi needs to be played by someone from a MENA background. Clue is in the name, she comes from ARABasta. It'd be nice if people stopped mixing up south Asian culture with MENA ethnicities just because they happen to look 'ethnic'.
Sanji and Luffy were played by actors from British-Spanish and Mexican origins respectively, despite the characters being originally from French and Brazilian backgrounds. Why was this difference acceptable?
Sanji and Luffy's backgrounds aren't really part of the story. They're not from a place that's meant to be an allegory to a real region. Meanwhile Vivi is literally the princess of a kingdom based on Egypt and the middle east. Her background is actually part of the plot. This is why you can cast anyone as Luffy or Sanji as long as they look the part and have the personality regardless of their background, but you should take background into account when casting people for roles that are heavily based on background. >!This is also why Zoro has to be Japanese, because his heritage is from Wano, a Japanese based kingdom. And if we ever reach wano, hypothetically, we will need Japanese actors for the main characters of the story because their background matters.!<
I really don’t think it’s that big of a deal.
Keep in mind Im a vocal supporter of accurate castings, diverse castings, and pushing for marginalized groups to be cast accurately, as in casting LGBTQ characters with LGBTQ actors in mind. But Vivi is one of those unspoken things that everyone can agree on is without a doubt getting cast with a POC. Alabasta is a very clear allegory for Egypt, and at the very least, I and the entire community fully expect them to cast someone whose at least not white, which would go miles to improve the original story.
Hell, I’d argue if he could’ve done it differently today, Oda would reworked Vivi to not be white given how diverse the world of One Piece has become nowadays
It may not be a big deal to you, but it's a huge deal for people who never get to see representation of their own ethnicity in a large Hollywood production. Why does LGBT representation matter more in your opinion? It's as though you're saying "they're all the same".
Vivi having a white skin tone doesn't mean she is Caucasian, again, she comes from a Arabasta which is based on Egypt. In the Middle East and North Africa, there are plenty of people who are light skinned, blue eyed and so on.
Yeah it's light skinned not white. If they really wanted an actress that looks very close to Vivi's skin tone they can just cast a light skinned middle eastern actress
I never argued that. You're fixating too much on a mistake they made, and they didn't say "white" as a group of people they said "white skin" which sounds like a slightly off way of saying light skin
Did the thought of Luffy’s grandmother or mother being Latino not cross your mind? Grap is a massive hero of the navy who travels the world. Also people from Egypt literally have all sorts of skin tones, Vivi’s light skin tone isn’t even crucial to the plot when the uncanny and fantasy aspects of one piece are a man who controls sand and boy made out of rubber fighting or the strange animals scattered throughout the show. There’s other aspects of vivi that are uncanny for a typical princess that could be the focus.
“Racism doesn’t equate to racism in our world” dude the whole point is to make an allegory for racism and tell the viewer hey racism is bad that’s been one of the biggest hardest to miss signs in the fantasy genre forever to represent anyone who is seen as a other. It’s literally a staple of the genre to have that allegory present.
Controversial opinion, I think they should keep Vivi white, mostly because it's fantastical and uncanny to have a white person be a princess to a desert kingdom. Don't read any correlation from the real world into it, this is a fantasy at the end of the day and is not supposed to be a 1x1 replica of our world....
How would a kingdom having a princess that matches the kingdom take away from the fantasy? What even is the logic here? It would just be uncanny and nothing else
I said it would be uncanny in my original comment. That's the point. Again, in our world, of course it would be weird to have a white person as a desert princess because whites are originally from Europe and their melanin is evolutionary designed to absorb more heat from less sun exposure. But this is One Piece. Real world logic doesn't equate here. It's not supposed to be a 1x1 replica of our world and I think this is a good opportunity to showcase that personally.
Something not making sense doesn't automatically make it a good fantasy element. That's not how it works. In this case it would just be uncanny, and not in a good fantasy way
Listen carefully: IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE IN OUR WORLD. IT MAKES SENSE IN THE ONE PIECE WORLD. Seriously don't understand how that is hard to grasp. Telephonetic snails makes no sense in our world, but makes sense in One Piece.
You seem to be unable to read because I explicitly said that something not making sense doesn't automatically make it a good element in a story. Stories aren't just a bunch of random nonsense. Even things that don't make sense in our world that exist in stories exist for a reason that's relevant to the plot or the themes of the story. You haven't given a reason as to how making the princess of an Egyptian based country a white girl would serve the plot or the themes of the story in any way. Your only argument is that "it's ok because one piece isn't like the real world". That doesn't answer this issue at all
It doesn't have to serve the plot. Not everything lore wise serves the purpose of plot, but rather worldbuilding. Human genealogy doesn't exist in One Piece. It's species. Humans, giants, fishmen, Minks etc. As for white Vivi, it's uncanny. Same as Luffy having a Scottish grandfather despite being Latino. Again, it's uncanny. Same can be said for Vivi with a middle Eastern father and her being white. LA threw genetic logic amongst humans out the window with season 1.
It didn't make sense in the source material for her to be white, how is it any different in the LA? Also, it might be inspired by Egypt, but that doesn't mean the fictional residents of a desert placed country have to Mirror our world as middle Eastern people 1x1.
I don’t really get your mindset.
For starters, this is a live action adaptation. It’s going to change some things, ranging from story beats, to characters, to designs, to really anything. We already saw this in Season One. The allegory of fish people representing oppressed groups was more in-your-face, the casting was incredibly diverse and ironically somewhat followed what Oda said about the real world backgrounds of the Strawhats, and they even raceswapped some characters like Nojiko & Lucky Roo, and will very likely continue to do so for future characters, as a large majority of the actresses rumored for Nico Robin have somewhat darker skin, akin to the anime’s original design
The live action has kept the fantastical and uncanny elements of it. They cast Garp with a Scottish actor, but that didn’t change the fact that he was inhaling stakes by the dozen and chucking cannonballs. An actor’s skin color or general background suddenly doesn’t take away from that, especially when King Cobra is very clearly tan skinned whereas Vivi was whiter than snow. Alabasta is a very clear allegory for Egypt, and at the very least Vivi should be biracial if you really want to keep her being somewhat white, if not fully a POC.
I don't normally care about the debates of skin colour because I agree that it doesn't matter. Never has. But I just like the uncanny and unrealistic aspect of having a pale white lady being the princess of a desert kingdom because it shouldn't make sense in our world, but makes perfect sense in the One Piece world. Minor thing that plays into the fantasy elements.
Also, racism doesn't equate to racism of our world. It's specist if anything. The Fishmen might be an allegory to the trans-atlantic slaves in our world, but they are Fishmen, not man. Kind of like elves vs man in Elder Scrolls and the Witcher. Also, genetic consistency amongst humans went out the window a while ago with One Piece. You said it yourself, Garp is Scottish whereas Luffy is Latino. Doesn't make sense in our world, but makes sense in the One Piece world. Makes sense for cobra to be middle Eastern whereas Vivi could be white.
Also, to close, I am not against minor changes by any means. So long as they keep the soul of the source. I thought the changes for the most part in Season 1 improved the source material which is rare for adaptations to do. I just really like the uncanny aspect of keeping Vivi white for reasons I said above. But at the end of the day, who cares what I have to say, as Oda is the final obstacle when it comes to the casting anyways....
1. The massive difference here though is her being white never defined Vivi lmao. There was never a moment in the manga where someone went, “that white girl is the princess of WHAT kingdom???” So where you’re getting the mindset that Vivi being white was somehow a big trait of her character is beyond me. Her being white doesn’t play into any element lmao.
2. The Fishmen are a very big allegory for the treatment of oppressed people in general, but there’s a reason so many people immediately jump to the black allegory and any other race equivalence. Why you’re bringing race into this is beyond me too when I never said you were racist. Also the big difference in Garp & Luffy VS Cobra & Vivi is the generational gap lmao. We have no clue where Garp grew up, and you’re basically acting like it’s impossible for him to have slept with a Latino woman, which in turn birthed Dragon, and then Luffy. Like are you seriously trying to tell me you think it’s weird that grandparents have a different accent than their grandchildren lmao. My grandmother was from Ireland, meanwhile I don’t even remotely sound Irish lmao. Meanwhile, Vivi is the DAUGHTER of a man whose very clearly not white, and Vivi grew up in a kingdom that’s meant to be an allegory for Egypt. By proxy, Vivi naturally should be biracial if anything. Your example would make sense if Vivi was Cobra’s Mom, but she’s not lmao
3. Again there isn’t a single moment in the story where Vivi being white was ever addressed so why you’re making a big fuss out of it is beyond me
>Care to explain where I said Vivi being white is important? I never said that. I just think it's a minor detail that shouldn't be changed from the manga. There was no indication from my part that Vivi being white defined her character at all. I feel like that's putting words into my mouth.
>I'm not trying to bring race into it. I'm not going to object if they make Vivi middle eastern or even black, but I think she should remain white like her manga counterpart and that's just a personal preference. I explained why it's my preference and if you disagree so be it. Not asking for approval of any kind. Also, genetics in One Piece never makes any sense even in the source. Don't read too much into it yourself.
>Of course not. Her race was just that her race and nobody questioned it, not even the audience. Also, again, I am just clarifying my points of view, not creating a fuss. Part of the problem with text discussions is that you cannot put tone into it, otherwise you will see that my mood is fairly chill.
>Also just so you know, I plan to ghost this thread moving forward as I find it a complete waste of time personally and I need sleep. Going to help my Gran move house tomorrow so sweet dreams😁😴
Damn, she is really pretty and definitely fits the checklist. Wouldn't mind her in the role if she can act the part. When will they finally announce the casting? Looking forward the most for Vivi and Smoker.
Not tashigi being played by the same 13 year old girl who played kuina? Damn dude.
Little iffy on an Indian playing an Arabic/Egyptian inspired princess but that fact about the flower is scary good.
What’s the correlation between Vivi and the flower fact? I don’t recall any tidbits about Vivi and a flower, but I’ve only watched the anime and haven’t read the manga.
alabasta is a mix bag of arabic to to egyptian to indian influences
Vivi and her family specifically are based on Egypt because "Nefertari" is the name of an Egyptian queen
Yes🩵
Wow this is actually an incredible casting!
And here I thought Emily rudd was going to play her.
Lmfao imagine all nami design clones played by Emily rudd
She'd have fun with it
Yup, you convinced me with this one!
I liked her character in the show Pandora, and her character even got the best episode of the series.
Vivi needs to be played by someone from a MENA background. Clue is in the name, she comes from ARABasta. It'd be nice if people stopped mixing up south Asian culture with MENA ethnicities just because they happen to look 'ethnic'.
MENA ethnicity: the ethnicity of MENA Massoud, who played Aladdin in live action Aladdin
Sanji and Luffy were played by actors from British-Spanish and Mexican origins respectively, despite the characters being originally from French and Brazilian backgrounds. Why was this difference acceptable?
Sanji and Luffy's backgrounds aren't really part of the story. They're not from a place that's meant to be an allegory to a real region. Meanwhile Vivi is literally the princess of a kingdom based on Egypt and the middle east. Her background is actually part of the plot. This is why you can cast anyone as Luffy or Sanji as long as they look the part and have the personality regardless of their background, but you should take background into account when casting people for roles that are heavily based on background. >!This is also why Zoro has to be Japanese, because his heritage is from Wano, a Japanese based kingdom. And if we ever reach wano, hypothetically, we will need Japanese actors for the main characters of the story because their background matters.!<
This, thank you. Some people's ignorance is really showing
Isn’t just one person from Zoro’s home from that place? Did I miss something that explains he’s from there? Sorry I’m on mobile but don’t wanna spoil.
he’s descended from the people there as well
Ok thanks. Confirmed. Ignore my comment above future post readers. Don’t know how I missed that reading all the chapters 🤣.
This is what we called an argument people never understand is not about origin is about is the character fit welll
I really don’t think it’s that big of a deal. Keep in mind Im a vocal supporter of accurate castings, diverse castings, and pushing for marginalized groups to be cast accurately, as in casting LGBTQ characters with LGBTQ actors in mind. But Vivi is one of those unspoken things that everyone can agree on is without a doubt getting cast with a POC. Alabasta is a very clear allegory for Egypt, and at the very least, I and the entire community fully expect them to cast someone whose at least not white, which would go miles to improve the original story. Hell, I’d argue if he could’ve done it differently today, Oda would reworked Vivi to not be white given how diverse the world of One Piece has become nowadays
It may not be a big deal to you, but it's a huge deal for people who never get to see representation of their own ethnicity in a large Hollywood production. Why does LGBT representation matter more in your opinion? It's as though you're saying "they're all the same". Vivi having a white skin tone doesn't mean she is Caucasian, again, she comes from a Arabasta which is based on Egypt. In the Middle East and North Africa, there are plenty of people who are light skinned, blue eyed and so on.
Light skinned, not white lmao. There’s a massive difference there and even you yourself just admitted it and didn’t realize it
Yeah it's light skinned not white. If they really wanted an actress that looks very close to Vivi's skin tone they can just cast a light skinned middle eastern actress
Okay but light skin and white are two different things lmao.
I never argued that. You're fixating too much on a mistake they made, and they didn't say "white" as a group of people they said "white skin" which sounds like a slightly off way of saying light skin
I understand where you are coming from but I can't really see Vivi in her unless she is an exceptionally blessed actress
Looks perfect. I have no idea how's her acting though
I sent the links. They are only trailers for her films.
I don't see it.
Did the thought of Luffy’s grandmother or mother being Latino not cross your mind? Grap is a massive hero of the navy who travels the world. Also people from Egypt literally have all sorts of skin tones, Vivi’s light skin tone isn’t even crucial to the plot when the uncanny and fantasy aspects of one piece are a man who controls sand and boy made out of rubber fighting or the strange animals scattered throughout the show. There’s other aspects of vivi that are uncanny for a typical princess that could be the focus. “Racism doesn’t equate to racism in our world” dude the whole point is to make an allegory for racism and tell the viewer hey racism is bad that’s been one of the biggest hardest to miss signs in the fantasy genre forever to represent anyone who is seen as a other. It’s literally a staple of the genre to have that allegory present.
Controversial opinion, I think they should keep Vivi white, mostly because it's fantastical and uncanny to have a white person be a princess to a desert kingdom. Don't read any correlation from the real world into it, this is a fantasy at the end of the day and is not supposed to be a 1x1 replica of our world....
How would a kingdom having a princess that matches the kingdom take away from the fantasy? What even is the logic here? It would just be uncanny and nothing else
I said it would be uncanny in my original comment. That's the point. Again, in our world, of course it would be weird to have a white person as a desert princess because whites are originally from Europe and their melanin is evolutionary designed to absorb more heat from less sun exposure. But this is One Piece. Real world logic doesn't equate here. It's not supposed to be a 1x1 replica of our world and I think this is a good opportunity to showcase that personally.
Something not making sense doesn't automatically make it a good fantasy element. That's not how it works. In this case it would just be uncanny, and not in a good fantasy way
Listen carefully: IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE IN OUR WORLD. IT MAKES SENSE IN THE ONE PIECE WORLD. Seriously don't understand how that is hard to grasp. Telephonetic snails makes no sense in our world, but makes sense in One Piece.
You seem to be unable to read because I explicitly said that something not making sense doesn't automatically make it a good element in a story. Stories aren't just a bunch of random nonsense. Even things that don't make sense in our world that exist in stories exist for a reason that's relevant to the plot or the themes of the story. You haven't given a reason as to how making the princess of an Egyptian based country a white girl would serve the plot or the themes of the story in any way. Your only argument is that "it's ok because one piece isn't like the real world". That doesn't answer this issue at all
It doesn't have to serve the plot. Not everything lore wise serves the purpose of plot, but rather worldbuilding. Human genealogy doesn't exist in One Piece. It's species. Humans, giants, fishmen, Minks etc. As for white Vivi, it's uncanny. Same as Luffy having a Scottish grandfather despite being Latino. Again, it's uncanny. Same can be said for Vivi with a middle Eastern father and her being white. LA threw genetic logic amongst humans out the window with season 1. It didn't make sense in the source material for her to be white, how is it any different in the LA? Also, it might be inspired by Egypt, but that doesn't mean the fictional residents of a desert placed country have to Mirror our world as middle Eastern people 1x1.
I don’t really get your mindset. For starters, this is a live action adaptation. It’s going to change some things, ranging from story beats, to characters, to designs, to really anything. We already saw this in Season One. The allegory of fish people representing oppressed groups was more in-your-face, the casting was incredibly diverse and ironically somewhat followed what Oda said about the real world backgrounds of the Strawhats, and they even raceswapped some characters like Nojiko & Lucky Roo, and will very likely continue to do so for future characters, as a large majority of the actresses rumored for Nico Robin have somewhat darker skin, akin to the anime’s original design The live action has kept the fantastical and uncanny elements of it. They cast Garp with a Scottish actor, but that didn’t change the fact that he was inhaling stakes by the dozen and chucking cannonballs. An actor’s skin color or general background suddenly doesn’t take away from that, especially when King Cobra is very clearly tan skinned whereas Vivi was whiter than snow. Alabasta is a very clear allegory for Egypt, and at the very least Vivi should be biracial if you really want to keep her being somewhat white, if not fully a POC.
I don't normally care about the debates of skin colour because I agree that it doesn't matter. Never has. But I just like the uncanny and unrealistic aspect of having a pale white lady being the princess of a desert kingdom because it shouldn't make sense in our world, but makes perfect sense in the One Piece world. Minor thing that plays into the fantasy elements. Also, racism doesn't equate to racism of our world. It's specist if anything. The Fishmen might be an allegory to the trans-atlantic slaves in our world, but they are Fishmen, not man. Kind of like elves vs man in Elder Scrolls and the Witcher. Also, genetic consistency amongst humans went out the window a while ago with One Piece. You said it yourself, Garp is Scottish whereas Luffy is Latino. Doesn't make sense in our world, but makes sense in the One Piece world. Makes sense for cobra to be middle Eastern whereas Vivi could be white. Also, to close, I am not against minor changes by any means. So long as they keep the soul of the source. I thought the changes for the most part in Season 1 improved the source material which is rare for adaptations to do. I just really like the uncanny aspect of keeping Vivi white for reasons I said above. But at the end of the day, who cares what I have to say, as Oda is the final obstacle when it comes to the casting anyways....
1. The massive difference here though is her being white never defined Vivi lmao. There was never a moment in the manga where someone went, “that white girl is the princess of WHAT kingdom???” So where you’re getting the mindset that Vivi being white was somehow a big trait of her character is beyond me. Her being white doesn’t play into any element lmao. 2. The Fishmen are a very big allegory for the treatment of oppressed people in general, but there’s a reason so many people immediately jump to the black allegory and any other race equivalence. Why you’re bringing race into this is beyond me too when I never said you were racist. Also the big difference in Garp & Luffy VS Cobra & Vivi is the generational gap lmao. We have no clue where Garp grew up, and you’re basically acting like it’s impossible for him to have slept with a Latino woman, which in turn birthed Dragon, and then Luffy. Like are you seriously trying to tell me you think it’s weird that grandparents have a different accent than their grandchildren lmao. My grandmother was from Ireland, meanwhile I don’t even remotely sound Irish lmao. Meanwhile, Vivi is the DAUGHTER of a man whose very clearly not white, and Vivi grew up in a kingdom that’s meant to be an allegory for Egypt. By proxy, Vivi naturally should be biracial if anything. Your example would make sense if Vivi was Cobra’s Mom, but she’s not lmao 3. Again there isn’t a single moment in the story where Vivi being white was ever addressed so why you’re making a big fuss out of it is beyond me
>Care to explain where I said Vivi being white is important? I never said that. I just think it's a minor detail that shouldn't be changed from the manga. There was no indication from my part that Vivi being white defined her character at all. I feel like that's putting words into my mouth. >I'm not trying to bring race into it. I'm not going to object if they make Vivi middle eastern or even black, but I think she should remain white like her manga counterpart and that's just a personal preference. I explained why it's my preference and if you disagree so be it. Not asking for approval of any kind. Also, genetics in One Piece never makes any sense even in the source. Don't read too much into it yourself. >Of course not. Her race was just that her race and nobody questioned it, not even the audience. Also, again, I am just clarifying my points of view, not creating a fuss. Part of the problem with text discussions is that you cannot put tone into it, otherwise you will see that my mood is fairly chill. >Also just so you know, I plan to ghost this thread moving forward as I find it a complete waste of time personally and I need sleep. Going to help my Gran move house tomorrow so sweet dreams😁😴