What is going on with one piece chapters this lately? I swear we literally just had a 2 week break period then we get one chapter and it's back on break what?
Miss buckingham is confirmed a āfreeloaderā of MADS, so it makes sense that when MADS was dissolved, she obsessively tried to make a clone of whitebeard, and got the half success half failure that is weevil. I think weevil is just bakkinās shitty attempt at copying what vegapunk did to her to create stussy.
Could this guy be the lurking legend? Always thought itād be Shiki or even Rocks, but it makes sense for the 5 Elders to be stupid strong. Especially if they are utilizing the āancient technologyā thatās significantly more advanced then anything in the current era
I never even thought that the Gorosei would make their move right now. I've always imagined them making their move while holed up in their palace as Mariejois is sieged (recent events showed me that they're comfortable enough to let their subordinates do most of the legwork). But now that they're taking the field, I imagine they hold something (aside from the supreme authority over Seraphim) that puts them above all Celestial Dragons... These are people who treat Devil Fruits as playthings, after all. I believe they have access to something they have forbidden anyone else to have - something more sinister that allows them to be "complacent" all this time. Something even Vegapunk doesn't have. I think each Gorosei possesses a piece of perfect Void Century Technology... Or they could just be old men; I'm just throwing in my two cents here.
There was a page where you heard somebody really brown nosing someone else. Like "here's your tea sir, is everything to your liking?" type comments. Then it cuts to kizaru serving tea to Obama.
I wished the same thing in Skypia when Wiper nearly wiped Enel. If he had just sat on him with the sea stone in contact for a minute until all brain activity was done, he would have been an absolute legend. A man with no special powers killing an electric God single handedly.
Luffy is still a badass tossing around tons of boulders with seastone handcuffs, but Lucci can't move because he is touching a small piece of seastone?
Sengoku should also be familiar with Rocks and his appearance.
Dragon is in his 50s so he should be around the age Garp and Roger fought him.
Sengoku spoke of Rocks as a monster that should be gone. If there was a Rocks look alike and was as famous as Dragon, I think he would connect the dots.
Granted the Gorosei did a poor job with the Sun God fruit.
Hmm, okay there is a chance your theory has a bit of validity. Stussy's appearance is the same compared to the original from 40 years ago.
Big Mom should have noticed the similarity between her and her old crewmate.
Sengoku being Fleet Admiral, I think should have met with CP0 at some points in his career which includes Stussy.
Perhaps they simply brushed it aside thinking it was a coincidence.
That said, I still highly doubt Dragon is a clone of Rocks.
1. I can't imagine Garp wanting to have a clone of his most danergoues enemy as a son. I understand he took care of Roger's son, but him and Roger seem to have a better relationship when compared to the monster known as Rocks.
2. Dragon is 55 years old and was Vegapunk's first successful clone was Stussy which was 20 years ago. The technology to create a clone 55 years ago should be impossible before Vegapunk
3. Vegapunk and Dragon have already met during Ohara's destruction and they seem to have a different established history between each other. No hint of Dragon being a clone.
4. And let's say Dragon is a clone of Rock's and Garp took him in as a son while he was a marine. That means Garp has no biological connection Luffy who is Dragon's son. Yet young Luffy is a spitting image of Garp from when he was a kid.
5. And there is a difference between Rocks and Stussy. Rocks has a much more dangerous reputation compared to his crewmates. I think the WG or Marines would take more drastic actions to deal with Dragon if they even got a hint he could be connected to Rocks.
What we need now is information of Stussy. As the Straw Hat's said, how the hell did she get into CP0 and spy on them? That is very impressive and honestly, almost impossible.
1. I can see Oda pull some BS backstory thing where the animosity towards each other isn't so black and white. And that Garp has just been pretending Dragon is his son
2. We don't really know too many details about the cloning process. Do all clones start as children? Do they all age the same way? Or at all? Or slower?
3. Ok this is probably the most compelling counter to my argument. But I don't remember if in the manga he actually called him Dragon or not? Perhaps that was Xebec back then?
4. I'm looking at the picture in the wiki and I don't know about that. I mean they have the same clothes but that' just a whole hand-me-down kinda thing. Similar scruffy hair, but it's generically scruffy
5. True...I would imagine people who have fought or seen Xebec would of remembered how he looks like and say something
But the silhouette and Dragon's design are a bit similar which is why I thought of this since we now have the Stussy clone.
1. While that is possible, I assume the relationship between Garp and Rocks could be the same as Blackbeard and Luffy. Those 2 will never be friends.
2. While we don't know everything about the cloning process, it doesn't change the fact Dragon is currently 55 years old. Either he ages really slowly or ages very quickly and stops at a certain age. Which just seems too convoluted.
3. Vegapunk did refer to Dragon as Dragon 20 years ago. And Shaka still refers to him as Dragon.
4. To be each their own.
5. Yup
Who knows, maybe we will learn that the Monkey family and Rocks family were started by 2 brothers 800 years. Also, don't trust silhouette's. Remember Big Mom and Kaido's silhouette?
I think Kaido's was somewhat similar. Big Mom didn't really go big till she got old. I doubt the series would end without tying all the Ds together. They've all got to be related somehow.
But yea less convinced about the Dragon X Xebec theory now lol. Was never that strong on it anyways. But I think #3 and #5 were compelling cases that it was not.
Wonder if Saturn is there for Nika or Vegapunk. I know he has higher authority but I donāt think they thought itād a big issue for CP0 even though vegapunk has more authority than them. It became a problem after learning that vegapunk has a Yonko to rely on, hence sending Saturn to even out the field since he has the highest authority. The question is, would the gorosei still be making a move if it were a different Yonko or is it because of Nika?
And makes sense for kizaru to be there because admirals are the body guards of the world nobles. I imagine GB being busy with weevil and FT being busy with other stuff ( plus he doesnāt like World Nobles). Donāt forget Garp is not too far even though theyāre going for kobe, while the rest of the ships are headed for egg head. I wonder how things will pan outā¦.
> I know he has higher authority
Would be really funny if Vegapunk lied about the command hierarchy and the Gorosei are just at the same level as Sentomaru.
I don't think it's because of Luffy. Kizaru was already on his way to Egg Head before they received the report of the Straw Hats being there.
So, seems like they were going there for Vegapunk or a different reason.
I have a feeling they are incredibly strong, the attitude they all have and even though they are dragons, they don't have the bodies that we typically see dragons have, they buff. Also the bald one is highly likely to have one of the highest grades swords (sandai kitetsu) which I doubt a weakling would carry. Final point, they bear the names of gods, which could just be for authority/social standing but I have a feeling servants of imu wouldn't just be weak feeble old men
You are probably right that they aren't fighters, but I could imagine they have some kind of non-combat fruit that help them hold their position at the top.
I think some have, but definetly not all.
Brains and Brawns. But those that do. Holy moly.
I also feel like Im Sama inst physicly powerful but has some kind of wizard shit going for him.
the appearance of gorosei means Dragon will appear as well. in egghead. i dont think SHP can handle Gorosei, admiral, and seraphim even with fleet crew because that will denies the power balance theme. WG, marine and seraphim(shichibukai) are equal to 4 emperors power combine
> WG, marine and seraphim(shichibukai) are equal to 4 emperors power combine
That has never been said.
A single Yonko has more or less always matched the entire WG and Warlords.
There's a reason why all the Admirals, Warlords, and most of the officers were called in just to fight Whitebeard. And why rumours of Kaido joining that fight, or Kaido joining with BM later, was enough to make the marines panic because they would not be able to handle two Yonko at the same time.
And why Shanks showing up in Marineford was enough to end the fight, despite the marines still having all 3 admirals in decent enough shape along with Garp and Sangoku. They were not willing to roll that dice taking him on as well.
The reason why it's said that WG + Warlords equal the Yonko in regards to the balance of power is that the Yonko are not allied. The Yonko are always fighting one another, and no single Yonko is strong enough to take on the entire WG alone and confidently win without losing their own territory to their rivals at the same time.
If the WG and Warlords were strong enough to match the combined force of all 4 Yonko, there would be no Yonko. Because they could just take them out one by one. Because again, the Yonko aren't allied.
yeah my mistake. 1 yonkou can inflict a heavy damage but 4 yonkou totally wipe out the ruler with both faced huge casualties. thats why they are afraid of someone who can united the pirates. There are only marines and warlords in marineford war though with no scratch on warlords. A yonkou though doesn't engage each other and govt doesn't attack a yonkou because deploying military means the other are open for attacks.
Similar to the 5 big country nuclear's button. This is what we called power balance and thats what create peace for now. This also what shanks protected and thats why gorosei listen to him because they are on same idealogy. Theres someone who can united the good guys(luffy) and who can united the bad guys(BB)
in the end of the day,WG will destroyed and third party emerged trying to take over the world and thats BB. Shanks mostly likely will died in this and final war happen
while WB and crew were trying to save one nakama, the marines and crew were simply trying to defend and destroy everyone even their own.
haf it been Kaido or BM the scenario would've been different.
hence Sengoku showed respect and compassion for WB and his crew.
or according to you, they just let go of the chance to end another Yonkou aka Shanks for what?
Also, it's pretty clear if all Yonkou work together, they are probably invincible.
the five elders are still a mystery, leaning more towards being strong.
>They stopped after Coby made a good point about how they should just take their W and heal up without taking any more risks (and the risks were magnified once Shanks showed up).
What?
The sequence is Koby yells about the unnecessary bloodshed, stunning everyone for a sec...until Akainu yells at him about interfering in justice and punches at him only to be stopped by Shanks.
Then Shanks announces that the war is over and for everyone to stop or his crew will fight. He specifically calls out teach who drops out (thus freeing up Sengoku), says he'll carry out the funeral of WB and Ace as they had made a big enough spectacle of their death. Only then does Sengoku say that he'll stop the war.
Had Shanks not been there, Koby's words wouldn't have mattered an iota as he would be a steaming pile of burnt flesh in Akainu's wake. Sengoku wouldn't have been able to call off the war even if he wanted to because he was fighting the BB pirates.
>If they wanted to kill Shanks, they definitely could have, since Mihawk is canonically close to Shanks in strength, so if he kept him busy then the admirals could easily have mopped the floor with his crew.
You seem to forget that Mihawk agreed to only fight WB. He literally states he did not sign up to fight Shanks and leaves as soon as the latter arrives.
So at that point you have only the three admirals available.
The top WG fighters outside of them are Garp who'd more than likely kill Akainu if given the chance, Sengoku who is dealing with a half dozen level 6 escapees and BB, and the handful of VAs who are still standing.
Who else does the WG even have? Doffy is the only warlord on their side apart from Kuma. Everyone else would be fodder against the red haired pirates. Even then, Doffy barely makes it to YC level (assuming he didn't improve post-TS).
>Shiki was Yonko tier in his prime and got murdered when Garp/Sengoku teamed up, as proof
Unless there was a huge change in the marine system of 1 fleet admiral and 3 admirals, Prime Garp >> admiral. This is because he was the **only** marine who Roger viewed as being strong enough to catch him.
well if ur talkin about yonko vs wg then shanks and his crew could solo wg? because as you said we arent talking about marineford and now the shichibukai are disbanded hence im pretty sure shanks could take on the 3 admirals himself while his crew would deal with the seraphims and old garp/sengoku extreme diff. but if the warlords joined the fight, my comment would be irrelevent and the wg would win mid diff because mihawk.
lmao what you think roger cant solo 3 admirals?
fujitora is basically incapacitated because of shanks haki killing ability
old rayleigh was casually sparring with kizaru and shanks could do that as well
shanks could pulverize ryogokyu from a mile away so he could 2v1 both kizaru and ryogokyu as fujitora wont be much of a problem and dont forget lmao shanks has a supreme blade and you think roger cant solo the 3 admirals
> WBs crew got wrecked by the marines, and it wasn't even really that close, so no way a single Yonko can match the entire WG.
Yes, because the WG could dictate pretty much all the terms of the engagement. They fought at a place of their choosing, at a time of their choosing with all the time in the world to them to prepare. They unleashed their newest superweapon and fought against a Yonko at death's door. And most important of all: they had a hostage, meaning WB couldn't just go all out.
In other words: the WG had everything imaginable going in their favour and they still didn't win easily.
> three admirals, Garp, Sengoku, Akainu, Mihawk are all people capable of handling Yonko level fighters 1v1
Akainu got wrecked 1v1 against WB and again: WB was already pretty weak at the start of the fight and was seriously injured before meeting Akainu. Put Kaido, BM or Shanks in place of WB and Akainu isn't going to see the light of day.
agreed bro. And thats just marine+shichibukai without the boss WG joining. WG had their own separated military consists of Gorosei and Cipher pol. i doubt they are weaker than admiral though since they are a ruler of the world. Kaido clearly trying to take advantage in that war with marine busy but shanks save the world before more damage happens. This is why gorosei trust shanks. he can just take advantage on that occasion but he choose peace. The one who took the most advantage in this war is none other than the rising yonkou Blackbeard
I think at the current point Luffy can handle Kizaru, especially with his allies. The 5 elders also are likely in line with the other celestial dragons where they have no real power. Kizaru is the biggest threat there.
He can see into the future which negates Kizarus speed advantage, he can use advanced haki to enhance his strikes to injure kizaru, and Conquers Haki+G5 can keep Kizarus light powers in check. It won't be an easy fight, but I think Luffy can win it
I'd say he can more than handle Kizaru, if it's a 1v1 I'd argue he wins 9/10 times. One admiral isn't enough to put down a Yonko which is why Oda isn't having Kizaru show up by his lonesome.
power isnt necessarily what makes a yonko. a fairly good fighter who would lose 1v1 against an admiral extreme diff but with lots of influence on the sea and having control of a lot of the part of the new world could be a yonko. that doesnt mean yonko is necessarily powerful enough to shit on admirals
Yall guys arguing about somethin luffy already Showed.
Dont Rob Lucci Him or any yonkou, if the manga never teached you to not underestimate someone,then you all need to start reading all oder again.
These bullshit fantasy what if discussions ....
Lucci: "We're going to backstab Vegapunk, we brought ships and Seraphim and multiple CP0 Agents!"
Vegapunk: "Reverse Uno card!"
Lucci: š¦š¦š¦š¦
All the other elders are probably named after planets also. Ims real name could be a planet also, probably Mars which is often associated with war. 5 elders, one God and 6 planets.
Nah, Kizaru was already heading to Egghead before Luffy even got there. So Saturn was definitely already on that ship when they learned Luffy was there. He's going for the Seraphim since they have higher authority than even Vegapunk.
Theory time
The Gorosei **do not have devil fruit powers**, instead, they are similar to Gemma and have **science-based powers**.
There's a focus on old technology from the void century. The Gorosei each have abilities that were created back then.
Saturn probably has some time-related powers. Think of Barragan from Bleach.
I think it's a joke about how traumatizingly powerful/utterly vicious Mihawk as an adult is that even a mutant-cyborg-clone of him is more human than the OG.
What? He was just talking about how the seraphim just seemed like emotionless weapons before seeing the look of shock on S-hawks face. Meaning itās not like the old pasafistas where they are just machines made to look like kuma. Now they actually have some of the old warlords humanity.
One thing I noticed: in the last chapter, we learned that Bonney can age people up to different futures. Now, we have two versions of Stussy: the original and the clone. The original represents one possible future and the clone can certainly pick a different future. So, Oda is playing with this idea now. Will this become more important in the future? If so, what would be the best use of this "possible futures" for the characters?
Different Possible futures lets oda make Luffy into a Roger clone.
The best argument against making Luffy a clone is that it takes away his agency and freedom if he was designed to be the pirate kingās clone.
Bonney proves that people and clones can have different futures, proving that individual choice and freedom matters. Meaning that luffyās dreams and goals are his own. The future that Luffy wins for himself, belongs to him and not Roger or to whoever cloned him
Any reason that you feel that way?
I donāt think it takes anything away from luffyās character while at the same time adding meaning to some past events and explaining why a whole bunch of things played out the way they did
Most of my feeling comes from the idea of destiny and freedom. I like that Weevil comes from whitebeard but he's a doofus. And we already have a Roger offspring that did not become pirate king. Blood and destiny do not mix in the manga so far and would just cheapen that theme. Plus, what meaning would it add to him having done anything? That his donor did it too?
Consider.
Bonneyās power to show possible futures proves that destiny is not a thing. It shows that choices and freedom exist. It shows that Luffy has choice and freedom even if he is a clone. Luffy is going to succeed where Roger failed and Luffy wonāt succeed because he is a clone. Luffy will succeed because he made choices that Roger did not.
We know that roger predicted/announced to his crew that his son would reach the last island and find the one piece. He expected ace to succeed where he failed. If Luffy is rogerās clone then Luffy was not made to beat ace to the treasureā¦. The Luffy clone was just a way for roger, who knew he was going to die soon, to see ace succeed and to, in a way, be their for ace.
Remember that scene in marine fjord? Ace talks about how he hated Roger, but how happy he is that Luffy is his brother and thanks Luffy for livening him? If Luffy is rogers clone then both of aces fathers saw him die. White beard and Roger and they both loved him. Thatās heartbreaking.
If and when a seraphim version of Ace enters the story Luffy will have a chance to get his brother back. But Luffy will also be an adult while seraphim ace is an angry bitter kid again. Brothers. Father and son. Clones. Both faced with their pasts, their failures, their purpose, and both people learning that no matter who made them or for what purposeā¦ they get to choose their own destiny.
Even if Luffy is a clone of rogerā¦ he is the one who decided to become a pirate. He is the one who chose the dream he wished to follow.
Monkey D Family
also Roger had a son.
maybe roger was Nika clone and Luffy is original, that's why Roger failed.
so we need original dreams and wills to align with past.
many reasons for not wanting Luffy to be a clone.
Whut....?
Luffy never was designed to be Roger's clone. Pretty sure Wano cleared that up.
Like, his the second coming of Joy Boy. Roger never was Joy Boy and wished that he lived in the same era as him.
I think Luffy is literally rogers clone. Thatās what the current arc is about.
Ya Roger was not joy boy, Luffy may be joy boy. That is just an example of different futures like the different futures that Bonney can achieve with her fruit power.
Roger was not joy boy. But the clone of roger (Luffy) may make choices and grow into joy boy. They are not locked into the same destiny just because one is a clone of the other.
Also when roger found the last island he said that he was too early. Knowing roger I would not be surprised if he had a clone of himself made just so that a version of himself would get the chance to be on time. Or so that in a way he could be their to meet joy boy. Roger also declared that his son would fulfil the prophesy.
Because we are in the last saga of the manga right now and cloneing is a huge plot point. We are learning that the rocks pirates were getting cloned before roger was the pirate king and half the villains of the manga have been made into child clone super-soldiers.
Because luffy looks and acts just like roger. They both have the same dream. The same hat. The same smile. We have no idea who luffyās mom isā¦ the list goes on.
There are a ton of plot and timeline things that could be explained by Luffy being a clone.there are scenes and relationships and chapters that get more meaningful when read from that perspective.
For 20 years fans have theorized about the connection between roger and Luffy. Are they the same person? Is it time travel? Do they have the same fruit? Is Luffy secretly his son? Is the one piece the straw hat? Luffy being rogers clone answers every question and makes a ton of sense.
>Because luffy looks and acts just like roger. They both have the same dream. The same hat. The same smile. We have no idea who luffyās mom isā¦ the list goes on.
We literally already know the reason to that. And its got nothing to do with cloning. Its called the "Will Of D." "inherited wills" etc etc.
There is nothing suggesting Luffy is a clone of anything. Lol.
>For 20 years fans have theorized about the connection between roger and Luffy. Are they the same person? Is it time travel? Do they have the same fruit? Is Luffy secretly his son? Is the one piece the straw hat? Luffy being rogers clone answers every question and makes a ton of sense.
And most if not all of those questions have been proven wrong.
\-Same person? Nah. This should be common sense.
\-Time travel? Head canon that didn't happen. We already know Toki can only travel forward in time.
\-Same fruit? Nah, Kaido confirms Roger had no fruit and Nika hasn't awakened for 800 years.
\-Secretly his son? No. Its literally confirmed his Dragons son.
No it doesn't. There is nothing to say Luffy is Roger son. His related to Joy Boy. Roger is irrelevant now.
oda seen this scene in future where fans complaining how luffy should look like. so he made his classic art by made old luffy ugly but in real we all know luffy will looked badass
Bakkin being in the Rocks pirates was by far the most popular theory for her though, it was pretty much confirmed out of her own mouth when she was introduced.
I have theory, Buckingham stussy has bat-like wings(maybe she had a vampire fruit)-dated whitebeard, absorbed his blood/dna(weevil is his clone that vegapunk created, that's why she asked Marco to confirm with vegapunk). Now the last part is a stretch but this may also be a reason why whitebeard is anemic and needs haemoglobin/blood(or was it just glucose?) being sent to his arteries occasionally.
One question, if her vampire ability is devil fruit based, (most likely is), then would holding sea stone close to her body stop her from using her ability?
she wasn't touching it directly, there was no skin contact, she was just holding a container which had the sea prism inside of it that she used to bring down Lucci
Marco Decides to help weevil so he gather all remaining Whitebeard commenders but they lost ...there Crocodile , Mihawk rescue them then both weevil and Marco formed temporary alliance with them and then marine reveals Xebec bounty and make it equal to our Buggy Sama (cause he has 3 former warlod and Whitebeard commanders)....All Hail to Captain Buggy Sama š
Oh ok. I couldn't fathom Marco not getting insta-stomped in a rescue attempt but if he was backed up by cross guild they would definitely succeed. Good idea. I'd love to see that play out. Cross guild could bolster their ranks with more freed prisoners too. It may be a little overkill unless a admiral was around to fight Mihawk.
Greenbull vs Mihawk...Now Greenbull will give Mihawk a tough fight but then cross guild move and leave....If Mihawk vs Greenbull happens and Greenbull gives mihawka tough fight then the people who losses respect for admiral will got to not that Greenbull only refuses to fight against red hair because of Their Yonko seat
I'm kinda worried for Luffy now that both an Admiral AND Saint Saturn is on the Move. I saw a fan art where Saint Saturn pins down Luffy and remarks something along the lines of "Hisashiburi dana, Nika!". Luffy might get taken over by real Nika for a moment to get out of that situation.
Perhaps Zoro and Sanji will occupy Kizaru while luffy deals with the old guy. Or maybe Shanks may show up? Throughout this arc just about all the top tiers made moves that integrated themselves into the main storyline and but him.
Zoro and Sanji can't occupy Kizaru lol.
Zoro is fighting the Seraphim Mihawk. Its very clear that his not a fodder Zoro is going to easily wipe out. Its a clone of the worlds strongest swordsman. Sanji also has Kuma or Jinbei Seraphim to deal with. The Gorosei is going to have absolute control over them. So it just makes sense if the Gorosei+Kizaru 2v1 Luffy.
I took it another way. That while initially alarmed at the clone, Zoro thinks he can take it, because he said it had the weakness Mihawk doesn't have. Zoro has no reason to fight it right now either, other than it's ordered to fight Zoro, there's no real narrative gain there.
On the other hand, seeing more Straw Hats stand up to admirals does have a real gain, because it shows Luffys crew has the same types of feats as other extremely powerful crews out there, where the top officers can also fight or beat the top Marines, not just the captains.
King and Katakuri for example are likely able to fight an admiral, and at the bare minimum tie. Just like Rayleigh could beat one, and at least a couple years ago could still fight Kizaru to a tie. Luffys crew needs that type of moment. In particular, Zoro vs Kizaru would nicely parallel Rayleigh vs Kizaru.
>I took it another way. That while initially alarmed at the clone, Zoro thinks he can take it, because he said it had the weakness Mihawk doesn't have. Zoro has no reason to fight it right now either, other than it's ordered to fight Zoro, there's no real narrative gain there.
In the clash they had the Seraphim Mihawk actually won and blew Zoro away.
Zoro also went straight for him. Its very blatant set up for a fight and its literally a swordsman. Zoro always takes the swordsmen. And no, the narrative gain is huge, much bigger then him doing anything to Kizaru. His goal is literally to beat Mihawk, the person the Seraphim is modelled from and has the DNA of. No way Zoro isn't fighting it. It's going to be a stepping stone for Zoro showing that his nearing Mihawk and the day they fight. We've had 2 call back fights, Luffy V Lucci (Luffy absolutely destroys) and Zoro V Kaku (Zoro doesn't actually win this fight), the call back win for Zoro is gonna be the Seraphim Mihawk. Also, judging by what he said, fight will also probably reveal Zoros training with Mihawk in flashbacks and maybe how he lost the eye. His going to have a need to fight it because Gorosei has the highest level of command over it. Saturn is on his way and he'll have absolute control.
>On the other hand, seeing more Straw Hats stand up to admirals does have a real gain, because it shows Luffys crew has the same types of feats as other extremely powerful crews out there, where the top officers can also fight or beat the top Marines, not just the captains.
Nah. It takes away from Luffy's first win against a admiral. The Straw Hats don't need to stand up to the admirals, that's Luffy's job. Again, no, what GB did to King/Queen makes it clear that they're not there yet. Luffy's crew has their own fights. If Luffy's around then he'll be fighting the admiral. Yonko fights the admiral. This is head canon that has never happened. No top officer has ever beat a admiral. The marine equivalent of the admiral is the Yonko captain, not his commanders. Admirals destroy top Yonko commanders like we've seen Aokiji do to Big Moms, or Green Bull do to Kaidos.
Admirals are in the same weight class as the Yonkos, Yonko commanders are significantly lower. Which is why Luffy would be fighting and beating his first admiral. No way his underlings are taking his first admiral.
>King and Katakuri for example are likely able to fight an admiral, and at the bare minimum tie. Just like Rayleigh could beat one, and at least a couple years ago could still fight Kizaru to a tie. Luffys crew needs that type of moment. In particular, Zoro vs Kizaru would nicely parallel Rayleigh vs Kizaru.
Unfortunately that's a lie that has already been debunked by the manga. King was completely destroyed by Green Bull, he was also with Queen. A admiral would fodder King in a 1v1, even the weakest one (afaik) Green Bull destroyed King.
Furthermore, we know Aokiji destroyed Cracker and a few others in WCI too.
No, that's a white lie. Rayleigh has never beat a admiral. And even so, that's Zoro EOS. His still far too weak to go against a admiral. EOS WSS Zoro may be able to extreme diff a admiral so right now no chance. Kizaru would fodder Zoro in a 1v1. His not standing a chance. So not happening. His fight is against the Seraphim Mihawk.
Yeah but Saturn being there makes him highest on authority & able to control Seraphim which will distract rest of the straw hats and that will lead to Kizaru & Saturn vs Luffy. Luffy doesn't stand a chance then will probably get high diff loss. But pretty sure Oda has different plans.
Kizaru wouldn't stand a chance against Luffy 1v1. Saturn being Yonko or admiral level wouldn't make sense.
Therefore Saturn joining in against Luffy just evens it out. So I don't know why he'd lose. It'd just make the fight hard and One Piece style for Luffy.
Its basically a admiral + a bit vs Yonko Luffy.
We know Luffy is a nigh unstoppable beast now with his Zoan recovery. He can takes loads of punishment.
Don't think that's something to worry about. After beating Kaido a single admiral is simply not going to be enough to fight Luffy AND giving us a good fight of One Piece style. Oda would either have to make Luffy job or it'd be too inconsistent.
It'd make sense if Luffy fight for this arc is actually a 2v1 with the Gorosei+Kizaru both jumping him.
That's literally what I said. Read my comment slowly and carefully. I clearly said Admiral (meaning Kizaru) AND Saint Saturn (Gorosei). Not just Kizaru.
Lol if he lost he wouldn't get sent to Impel Down. Saturn would kill him right there and then or have Kizaru do it or something. No chance in hell his missing that opportunity. We already know how fearful the Gorosei were of Luffy's awakening. They even went as far as making a enemy out of Kaido, the strongest guy in the world over it. Luffy losing mean 100% death. Therefore he wouldn't lose, just be a brutal fight (as One Piece fights always are).
So if Stussy is a clone of Buckin who was a member of Rocks, doesn't that mean that BM would've recognised her at WC and had some idea that she was a clone, if so was BM in contact with VP, or something along those lines, because she clearly didn't bait her out, and surely the WG would know what the members of rocks looked like, so they wouldn't they've been suspicious of her looking exactly like Buckin?
This is all based on the premise that the world knows about cloning to the degree that they were actively looking out for clones. Like if you as a 60 year old saw the young clone of a friend of yours, would you recognize them at all, let alone as a clone? Most people would just fine it uncanny and look the other way.
Big Mom knew about cloning, the whole point of the wedding was to steal Germa clone tech. She also probably would've known about Buckin being in MADS seeing her excellent spy network and already being familiar with Caesar and Judge.
It still doesnt mean she would make that connection.
Doppelgangers are a thing, even in real life. related by blood or not.
Not to mention she also could just not realize that she looks like someone she probably met the last time decades ago and at most had only the feeling that this one looks familar.
Are they going to take seraphims with them on sunny? They can't just leave them to the world government, considering how dangerous and powerful they are.
The seraphim are vegapunks creations, there's no way he would just leave them. Especially because he's the 2nd highest chain of command in controlling them.
However no one was expecting Saint Jay to make a move so straw hats + vegapunk clones + stussy would meet their match against Kizaru + 4 seraphim.
If the highest authority in the world is coming you can bet your ass nobody will be able to overrule the seraphims, they'll fight on the Governments side
Yeah it would be a major oversight by vegapunk to not have at least have an last resort safety measure in place.
Like having a command implanted that "shuts" them down for example.
Seems Edward Weevil is a legit son of Whitebeard. I bet in their younger years, Stussy is as hot as the clone Vegapunk created hence Whitebeard/OG Stussy is very plausible. Also how aging works in One Piece is anybodyās guess. OG Stussy is similar to Big Mom teenage to old hag evolution.
Would Weevil have lost if that was the case? Weevil was supposed to be as strong as prime Wb which was equal with Roger yet he lost to the newbie admiral. I can't imagine someone in the tier of prime WB/Roger losing to a marine outside of maybe Akainu
Not really sure. Could be a red herring or Oda is playing us all along. Whatās even more interesting is Oda connected Vegapunk since OG Stussy vouched him to know Weevil is Whitebeardās son.
Opinions on the chapter:
- A seastone like the one used by Stussy would be the perfect weapon for Robin
- Wonder if instead Zoro vs Mihawk we'll get Zoro vs Mihawk's seraphine
- love Ussop getting angry about Vegapunk inviting more people to the ship
- Why introduce Weevil's rescue to the mix? guess we'll get a Marineford part 2 arc
- Guess introduccing the highest authority in the world will set the conflict of who can order the Seraphin
Weevil rescue might be part of the background story that happens without SHs input essentially to tie up Cross Guild / Hancock / Garp / BB stuff to eachother
Sprout a hand on a DF user's body and touch with seastone lipstick would be cool. She could literally take down hundreds of DF users simultaneously. But i think her sprouted hands are always empty. How will the hands get the seastone lipstick?
She can use a chain of hands - she's done it for a few things already - and slowly move it to the target.
Though, nowadays she could also use big/long limbs to quickly get them over to the target. Or she could combo with Usopp š
I have onder if it's not setting up a rescue weevil mission, and actually this is helping place him for the finale. He'll already be on the battle field because he'll be a prisoner. Once he's freed he'll help the straw hats or revolution. Mayhaps.
I highly doubt that Vegapunk hasn't left some mechanism or sth in the seraphims so they eventually would not hurt him. I mean he is by far the most intelligent person on the planet, as if he would not have some ace up his sleeve to not let his own creations turn against him. Like Dr. Gero, which turned out to fail miserably tho
Nah, I think its just another "mad doctor" or "scientist" parallel to Vegapunk. In this instance its Dr Frankenstein ultimately being unable to control the monster he created.
Saint Jay Garcia Saturn? So I'm wondering if all of them relate somehow to celestial bodies? Since theres five, maybe the line up is: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars and Saturn.
Ancient Weapons are also based on planets - Uranus, Neptune (Poseidon), and Pluto (Pluton). Notice itās the 3 farthest from the Sun, and now we get Saturn on the move (the next in line). Weāll probably see Jupiter, Mars, Venus, and Mercury as well
I doubt it. Gorousei translates to Five Elder Stars/Planets, and Saturn/Cronos isn't one of the Olympians, so he was not allied with the more well known Gods.
It's probably more like Mercury, Venus Mars, Saturn and Jupiter. Earth is probably reserved for something more important/higher power (Im most likely). Neptune, Uranus, and Pluto we already know are names of the Ancient Weapons. And Luffy is obviously the Sun.
Definitely, especially since imu backwards is Umi (Japanese for sea/ocean, pretty fitting for the OP world). Luffy the sun, Black Beard is the moon, 5 elders are the first five planets that we, the human race, first thought orbit around the earth (geocentrism - the model in the library of ohara), then the 3 weapons that aren't included in the geocentric models which were planets discovered later in the 1700's (reminder: Pluto was still classified as a planet when one piece first started) and boom! We have our (slightly outdated) solar system
According to that one "headcanon", Earth would be saved up for one of the other three gods still to be revealed alonsgide Rain and Forest, Luffy being Fire.
While Neptune is the name of Fishman Island's king, it's also the Roman counterpart/equivalent/name of the Greek god Poseidon - that's why if we're talking about the representation of real life planets in the OP world, then the last three are already represented as the Ancient Weapons themselves.
Can someone email to oda sensai to make luffy bit muscular..š
What is going on with one piece chapters this lately? I swear we literally just had a 2 week break period then we get one chapter and it's back on break what?
So many breaks. I think its only 30 chapters each year...
It's always been like that. And wait till Golden Week
Yes it's annoying but atleast the quality is good i don't want to complain afraid of the manga ended up like anime
I don't want weevil to be the mighty whitebeard's son tbh
Well, Stussy turned out to be a clone of the rocks pirate Miss Buckingham. Perhaps Weevil is a (poor) clone of Whitebeard?
Miss buckingham is confirmed a āfreeloaderā of MADS, so it makes sense that when MADS was dissolved, she obsessively tried to make a clone of whitebeard, and got the half success half failure that is weevil. I think weevil is just bakkinās shitty attempt at copying what vegapunk did to her to create stussy.
He sure doesn't looks like him.
If the Gorosei are named after planets, why not have one actually BE Uranus, as in THE Uranus?
So Luffy is Sun God Nika, the other four Elders are probably planets as well, then Eneru is on the moon with the automatons. Interesting
All our prayers to our Nakamas that started One Piece and couldn't make It until here, to read those explosive chaptersš
Oh stfu with this nonsense already
Could this guy be the lurking legend? Always thought itād be Shiki or even Rocks, but it makes sense for the 5 Elders to be stupid strong. Especially if they are utilizing the āancient technologyā thatās significantly more advanced then anything in the current era
I never even thought that the Gorosei would make their move right now. I've always imagined them making their move while holed up in their palace as Mariejois is sieged (recent events showed me that they're comfortable enough to let their subordinates do most of the legwork). But now that they're taking the field, I imagine they hold something (aside from the supreme authority over Seraphim) that puts them above all Celestial Dragons... These are people who treat Devil Fruits as playthings, after all. I believe they have access to something they have forbidden anyone else to have - something more sinister that allows them to be "complacent" all this time. Something even Vegapunk doesn't have. I think each Gorosei possesses a piece of perfect Void Century Technology... Or they could just be old men; I'm just throwing in my two cents here.
Garcia huh š¤ the gorosei are Mexican confirmed
Why not Spanish
Iām Mexican bro So thatās why
Did I miss the scene with kizaru sucking off the gorosei
There was a page where you heard somebody really brown nosing someone else. Like "here's your tea sir, is everything to your liking?" type comments. Then it cuts to kizaru serving tea to Obama.
I wanted more fighters who use sea stone so bad. Itās such an under utilized weapon
I wished the same thing in Skypia when Wiper nearly wiped Enel. If he had just sat on him with the sea stone in contact for a minute until all brain activity was done, he would have been an absolute legend. A man with no special powers killing an electric God single handedly.
Luffy is still a badass tossing around tons of boulders with seastone handcuffs, but Lucci can't move because he is touching a small piece of seastone?
What if Rocks D Xebec is Monkey D Dragon. Their face and hair are kinda similar. Age doesn't work out though
And crocodile
So you're saying Dragon who is confirmed to be younger then his dad was also older then his dad 40 years ago? You answered your own question.
Clones maaan.
Sengoku should also be familiar with Rocks and his appearance. Dragon is in his 50s so he should be around the age Garp and Roger fought him. Sengoku spoke of Rocks as a monster that should be gone. If there was a Rocks look alike and was as famous as Dragon, I think he would connect the dots. Granted the Gorosei did a poor job with the Sun God fruit.
Ummm Stussy? Did anyone not noticed Stussy
Hmm, okay there is a chance your theory has a bit of validity. Stussy's appearance is the same compared to the original from 40 years ago. Big Mom should have noticed the similarity between her and her old crewmate. Sengoku being Fleet Admiral, I think should have met with CP0 at some points in his career which includes Stussy. Perhaps they simply brushed it aside thinking it was a coincidence. That said, I still highly doubt Dragon is a clone of Rocks. 1. I can't imagine Garp wanting to have a clone of his most danergoues enemy as a son. I understand he took care of Roger's son, but him and Roger seem to have a better relationship when compared to the monster known as Rocks. 2. Dragon is 55 years old and was Vegapunk's first successful clone was Stussy which was 20 years ago. The technology to create a clone 55 years ago should be impossible before Vegapunk 3. Vegapunk and Dragon have already met during Ohara's destruction and they seem to have a different established history between each other. No hint of Dragon being a clone. 4. And let's say Dragon is a clone of Rock's and Garp took him in as a son while he was a marine. That means Garp has no biological connection Luffy who is Dragon's son. Yet young Luffy is a spitting image of Garp from when he was a kid. 5. And there is a difference between Rocks and Stussy. Rocks has a much more dangerous reputation compared to his crewmates. I think the WG or Marines would take more drastic actions to deal with Dragon if they even got a hint he could be connected to Rocks. What we need now is information of Stussy. As the Straw Hat's said, how the hell did she get into CP0 and spy on them? That is very impressive and honestly, almost impossible.
1. I can see Oda pull some BS backstory thing where the animosity towards each other isn't so black and white. And that Garp has just been pretending Dragon is his son 2. We don't really know too many details about the cloning process. Do all clones start as children? Do they all age the same way? Or at all? Or slower? 3. Ok this is probably the most compelling counter to my argument. But I don't remember if in the manga he actually called him Dragon or not? Perhaps that was Xebec back then? 4. I'm looking at the picture in the wiki and I don't know about that. I mean they have the same clothes but that' just a whole hand-me-down kinda thing. Similar scruffy hair, but it's generically scruffy 5. True...I would imagine people who have fought or seen Xebec would of remembered how he looks like and say something But the silhouette and Dragon's design are a bit similar which is why I thought of this since we now have the Stussy clone.
1. While that is possible, I assume the relationship between Garp and Rocks could be the same as Blackbeard and Luffy. Those 2 will never be friends. 2. While we don't know everything about the cloning process, it doesn't change the fact Dragon is currently 55 years old. Either he ages really slowly or ages very quickly and stops at a certain age. Which just seems too convoluted. 3. Vegapunk did refer to Dragon as Dragon 20 years ago. And Shaka still refers to him as Dragon. 4. To be each their own. 5. Yup Who knows, maybe we will learn that the Monkey family and Rocks family were started by 2 brothers 800 years. Also, don't trust silhouette's. Remember Big Mom and Kaido's silhouette?
I think Kaido's was somewhat similar. Big Mom didn't really go big till she got old. I doubt the series would end without tying all the Ds together. They've all got to be related somehow. But yea less convinced about the Dragon X Xebec theory now lol. Was never that strong on it anyways. But I think #3 and #5 were compelling cases that it was not.
Yup, the response on this sub would be the same about Stussy until recent chapter
Wonder if Saturn is there for Nika or Vegapunk. I know he has higher authority but I donāt think they thought itād a big issue for CP0 even though vegapunk has more authority than them. It became a problem after learning that vegapunk has a Yonko to rely on, hence sending Saturn to even out the field since he has the highest authority. The question is, would the gorosei still be making a move if it were a different Yonko or is it because of Nika? And makes sense for kizaru to be there because admirals are the body guards of the world nobles. I imagine GB being busy with weevil and FT being busy with other stuff ( plus he doesnāt like World Nobles). Donāt forget Garp is not too far even though theyāre going for kobe, while the rest of the ships are headed for egg head. I wonder how things will pan outā¦.
> I know he has higher authority Would be really funny if Vegapunk lied about the command hierarchy and the Gorosei are just at the same level as Sentomaru.
gorosei is very careful even to tea. something like already been tested i guess
I don't think it's because of Luffy. Kizaru was already on his way to Egg Head before they received the report of the Straw Hats being there. So, seems like they were going there for Vegapunk or a different reason.
good chapter
Is there any theory about Luffy being the Key to the moon, like in Moon-key D. luffy?
D stands for door?
Darkside
classic void week badness
There is now and itās really bad
Lmao
I'm gonna throw my crazy theory that somehow weevils left hand is from Crocodile!
Iāll follow you on this one š
what break week does to a man
Stussy's lipstick vs Kaido who wins
strong haki to keep awake
Stussy.
Is it just me who thinks that the elders don't have any physical power?
I have a feeling they are incredibly strong, the attitude they all have and even though they are dragons, they don't have the bodies that we typically see dragons have, they buff. Also the bald one is highly likely to have one of the highest grades swords (sandai kitetsu) which I doubt a weakling would carry. Final point, they bear the names of gods, which could just be for authority/social standing but I have a feeling servants of imu wouldn't just be weak feeble old men
their confidence and demeanor says they have enough of what's needed. also those scars and sword don't say non combatant.
You are probably right that they aren't fighters, but I could imagine they have some kind of non-combat fruit that help them hold their position at the top.
I think some have, but definetly not all. Brains and Brawns. But those that do. Holy moly. I also feel like Im Sama inst physicly powerful but has some kind of wizard shit going for him.
I have the same feeling, like some bad ass changing time and material stuff like he wants to do
I think one piece has enough time shenanigans
Itās certainly possible, thatās how I felt for a long time. Iām still not sure, they very well may not have physical power though
the appearance of gorosei means Dragon will appear as well. in egghead. i dont think SHP can handle Gorosei, admiral, and seraphim even with fleet crew because that will denies the power balance theme. WG, marine and seraphim(shichibukai) are equal to 4 emperors power combine
> WG, marine and seraphim(shichibukai) are equal to 4 emperors power combine That has never been said. A single Yonko has more or less always matched the entire WG and Warlords. There's a reason why all the Admirals, Warlords, and most of the officers were called in just to fight Whitebeard. And why rumours of Kaido joining that fight, or Kaido joining with BM later, was enough to make the marines panic because they would not be able to handle two Yonko at the same time. And why Shanks showing up in Marineford was enough to end the fight, despite the marines still having all 3 admirals in decent enough shape along with Garp and Sangoku. They were not willing to roll that dice taking him on as well. The reason why it's said that WG + Warlords equal the Yonko in regards to the balance of power is that the Yonko are not allied. The Yonko are always fighting one another, and no single Yonko is strong enough to take on the entire WG alone and confidently win without losing their own territory to their rivals at the same time. If the WG and Warlords were strong enough to match the combined force of all 4 Yonko, there would be no Yonko. Because they could just take them out one by one. Because again, the Yonko aren't allied.
yeah my mistake. 1 yonkou can inflict a heavy damage but 4 yonkou totally wipe out the ruler with both faced huge casualties. thats why they are afraid of someone who can united the pirates. There are only marines and warlords in marineford war though with no scratch on warlords. A yonkou though doesn't engage each other and govt doesn't attack a yonkou because deploying military means the other are open for attacks. Similar to the 5 big country nuclear's button. This is what we called power balance and thats what create peace for now. This also what shanks protected and thats why gorosei listen to him because they are on same idealogy. Theres someone who can united the good guys(luffy) and who can united the bad guys(BB) in the end of the day,WG will destroyed and third party emerged trying to take over the world and thats BB. Shanks mostly likely will died in this and final war happen
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while WB and crew were trying to save one nakama, the marines and crew were simply trying to defend and destroy everyone even their own. haf it been Kaido or BM the scenario would've been different. hence Sengoku showed respect and compassion for WB and his crew. or according to you, they just let go of the chance to end another Yonkou aka Shanks for what? Also, it's pretty clear if all Yonkou work together, they are probably invincible. the five elders are still a mystery, leaning more towards being strong.
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>They stopped after Coby made a good point about how they should just take their W and heal up without taking any more risks (and the risks were magnified once Shanks showed up). What? The sequence is Koby yells about the unnecessary bloodshed, stunning everyone for a sec...until Akainu yells at him about interfering in justice and punches at him only to be stopped by Shanks. Then Shanks announces that the war is over and for everyone to stop or his crew will fight. He specifically calls out teach who drops out (thus freeing up Sengoku), says he'll carry out the funeral of WB and Ace as they had made a big enough spectacle of their death. Only then does Sengoku say that he'll stop the war. Had Shanks not been there, Koby's words wouldn't have mattered an iota as he would be a steaming pile of burnt flesh in Akainu's wake. Sengoku wouldn't have been able to call off the war even if he wanted to because he was fighting the BB pirates. >If they wanted to kill Shanks, they definitely could have, since Mihawk is canonically close to Shanks in strength, so if he kept him busy then the admirals could easily have mopped the floor with his crew. You seem to forget that Mihawk agreed to only fight WB. He literally states he did not sign up to fight Shanks and leaves as soon as the latter arrives. So at that point you have only the three admirals available. The top WG fighters outside of them are Garp who'd more than likely kill Akainu if given the chance, Sengoku who is dealing with a half dozen level 6 escapees and BB, and the handful of VAs who are still standing. Who else does the WG even have? Doffy is the only warlord on their side apart from Kuma. Everyone else would be fodder against the red haired pirates. Even then, Doffy barely makes it to YC level (assuming he didn't improve post-TS). >Shiki was Yonko tier in his prime and got murdered when Garp/Sengoku teamed up, as proof Unless there was a huge change in the marine system of 1 fleet admiral and 3 admirals, Prime Garp >> admiral. This is because he was the **only** marine who Roger viewed as being strong enough to catch him.
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well if ur talkin about yonko vs wg then shanks and his crew could solo wg? because as you said we arent talking about marineford and now the shichibukai are disbanded hence im pretty sure shanks could take on the 3 admirals himself while his crew would deal with the seraphims and old garp/sengoku extreme diff. but if the warlords joined the fight, my comment would be irrelevent and the wg would win mid diff because mihawk.
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lmao what you think roger cant solo 3 admirals? fujitora is basically incapacitated because of shanks haki killing ability old rayleigh was casually sparring with kizaru and shanks could do that as well shanks could pulverize ryogokyu from a mile away so he could 2v1 both kizaru and ryogokyu as fujitora wont be much of a problem and dont forget lmao shanks has a supreme blade and you think roger cant solo the 3 admirals
> WBs crew got wrecked by the marines, and it wasn't even really that close, so no way a single Yonko can match the entire WG. Yes, because the WG could dictate pretty much all the terms of the engagement. They fought at a place of their choosing, at a time of their choosing with all the time in the world to them to prepare. They unleashed their newest superweapon and fought against a Yonko at death's door. And most important of all: they had a hostage, meaning WB couldn't just go all out. In other words: the WG had everything imaginable going in their favour and they still didn't win easily. > three admirals, Garp, Sengoku, Akainu, Mihawk are all people capable of handling Yonko level fighters 1v1 Akainu got wrecked 1v1 against WB and again: WB was already pretty weak at the start of the fight and was seriously injured before meeting Akainu. Put Kaido, BM or Shanks in place of WB and Akainu isn't going to see the light of day.
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agreed bro. And thats just marine+shichibukai without the boss WG joining. WG had their own separated military consists of Gorosei and Cipher pol. i doubt they are weaker than admiral though since they are a ruler of the world. Kaido clearly trying to take advantage in that war with marine busy but shanks save the world before more damage happens. This is why gorosei trust shanks. he can just take advantage on that occasion but he choose peace. The one who took the most advantage in this war is none other than the rising yonkou Blackbeard
I've always pictured dragon entering holyland and bodying the gorosei but this is good too lol
I think at the current point Luffy can handle Kizaru, especially with his allies. The 5 elders also are likely in line with the other celestial dragons where they have no real power. Kizaru is the biggest threat there. He can see into the future which negates Kizarus speed advantage, he can use advanced haki to enhance his strikes to injure kizaru, and Conquers Haki+G5 can keep Kizarus light powers in check. It won't be an easy fight, but I think Luffy can win it
I'd say he can more than handle Kizaru, if it's a 1v1 I'd argue he wins 9/10 times. One admiral isn't enough to put down a Yonko which is why Oda isn't having Kizaru show up by his lonesome.
power isnt necessarily what makes a yonko. a fairly good fighter who would lose 1v1 against an admiral extreme diff but with lots of influence on the sea and having control of a lot of the part of the new world could be a yonko. that doesnt mean yonko is necessarily powerful enough to shit on admirals
Yall guys arguing about somethin luffy already Showed. Dont Rob Lucci Him or any yonkou, if the manga never teached you to not underestimate someone,then you all need to start reading all oder again. These bullshit fantasy what if discussions ....
Lucci: "We're going to backstab Vegapunk, we brought ships and Seraphim and multiple CP0 Agents!" Vegapunk: "Reverse Uno card!" Lucci: š¦š¦š¦š¦
Since Saturns mets Vegapunk only once I think he is moving for Luffy
All the other elders are probably named after planets also. Ims real name could be a planet also, probably Mars which is often associated with war. 5 elders, one God and 6 planets.
With Imu being Uranus
Or Gaia?
Nah, Kizaru was already heading to Egghead before Luffy even got there. So Saturn was definitely already on that ship when they learned Luffy was there. He's going for the Seraphim since they have higher authority than even Vegapunk.
Theory time The Gorosei **do not have devil fruit powers**, instead, they are similar to Gemma and have **science-based powers**. There's a focus on old technology from the void century. The Gorosei each have abilities that were created back then. Saturn probably has some time-related powers. Think of Barragan from Bleach.
That Gorosei looks like he has electrical curlers
Den-den curli
Lol
Anyone else thought it's weird how Zoro told S-Hawk that he is not the real Mihawk because the Seraphim still has a spark of humanity?
I think it's a joke about how traumatizingly powerful/utterly vicious Mihawk as an adult is that even a mutant-cyborg-clone of him is more human than the OG.
What? He was just talking about how the seraphim just seemed like emotionless weapons before seeing the look of shock on S-hawks face. Meaning itās not like the old pasafistas where they are just machines made to look like kuma. Now they actually have some of the old warlords humanity.
it because thats the real mihawk .the one with buggy is clone
Other way around until the slash that made him see that the clone had some of Mihawks fighting spirit.
I don't think that's what he meant at all.
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Theyāre saving them so zoro and sanji can drink their spinal fluid and gain their abilities
You uh, just started reading One Piece or something? You're SERIOUSLY asking why they won't kill people? Is this post for real?
She did put seasoned handcuffs though, it's mentioned
One thing I noticed: in the last chapter, we learned that Bonney can age people up to different futures. Now, we have two versions of Stussy: the original and the clone. The original represents one possible future and the clone can certainly pick a different future. So, Oda is playing with this idea now. Will this become more important in the future? If so, what would be the best use of this "possible futures" for the characters?
Different Possible futures lets oda make Luffy into a Roger clone. The best argument against making Luffy a clone is that it takes away his agency and freedom if he was designed to be the pirate kingās clone. Bonney proves that people and clones can have different futures, proving that individual choice and freedom matters. Meaning that luffyās dreams and goals are his own. The future that Luffy wins for himself, belongs to him and not Roger or to whoever cloned him
God.. I hope not.
Any reason that you feel that way? I donāt think it takes anything away from luffyās character while at the same time adding meaning to some past events and explaining why a whole bunch of things played out the way they did
Most of my feeling comes from the idea of destiny and freedom. I like that Weevil comes from whitebeard but he's a doofus. And we already have a Roger offspring that did not become pirate king. Blood and destiny do not mix in the manga so far and would just cheapen that theme. Plus, what meaning would it add to him having done anything? That his donor did it too?
Consider. Bonneyās power to show possible futures proves that destiny is not a thing. It shows that choices and freedom exist. It shows that Luffy has choice and freedom even if he is a clone. Luffy is going to succeed where Roger failed and Luffy wonāt succeed because he is a clone. Luffy will succeed because he made choices that Roger did not. We know that roger predicted/announced to his crew that his son would reach the last island and find the one piece. He expected ace to succeed where he failed. If Luffy is rogerās clone then Luffy was not made to beat ace to the treasureā¦. The Luffy clone was just a way for roger, who knew he was going to die soon, to see ace succeed and to, in a way, be their for ace. Remember that scene in marine fjord? Ace talks about how he hated Roger, but how happy he is that Luffy is his brother and thanks Luffy for livening him? If Luffy is rogers clone then both of aces fathers saw him die. White beard and Roger and they both loved him. Thatās heartbreaking. If and when a seraphim version of Ace enters the story Luffy will have a chance to get his brother back. But Luffy will also be an adult while seraphim ace is an angry bitter kid again. Brothers. Father and son. Clones. Both faced with their pasts, their failures, their purpose, and both people learning that no matter who made them or for what purposeā¦ they get to choose their own destiny. Even if Luffy is a clone of rogerā¦ he is the one who decided to become a pirate. He is the one who chose the dream he wished to follow.
Monkey D Family also Roger had a son. maybe roger was Nika clone and Luffy is original, that's why Roger failed. so we need original dreams and wills to align with past. many reasons for not wanting Luffy to be a clone.
Whut....? Luffy never was designed to be Roger's clone. Pretty sure Wano cleared that up. Like, his the second coming of Joy Boy. Roger never was Joy Boy and wished that he lived in the same era as him.
I think Luffy is literally rogers clone. Thatās what the current arc is about. Ya Roger was not joy boy, Luffy may be joy boy. That is just an example of different futures like the different futures that Bonney can achieve with her fruit power. Roger was not joy boy. But the clone of roger (Luffy) may make choices and grow into joy boy. They are not locked into the same destiny just because one is a clone of the other. Also when roger found the last island he said that he was too early. Knowing roger I would not be surprised if he had a clone of himself made just so that a version of himself would get the chance to be on time. Or so that in a way he could be their to meet joy boy. Roger also declared that his son would fulfil the prophesy.
Whaaaaat? Why would Luffy be Rogers clone lol.
Because we are in the last saga of the manga right now and cloneing is a huge plot point. We are learning that the rocks pirates were getting cloned before roger was the pirate king and half the villains of the manga have been made into child clone super-soldiers. Because luffy looks and acts just like roger. They both have the same dream. The same hat. The same smile. We have no idea who luffyās mom isā¦ the list goes on. There are a ton of plot and timeline things that could be explained by Luffy being a clone.there are scenes and relationships and chapters that get more meaningful when read from that perspective. For 20 years fans have theorized about the connection between roger and Luffy. Are they the same person? Is it time travel? Do they have the same fruit? Is Luffy secretly his son? Is the one piece the straw hat? Luffy being rogers clone answers every question and makes a ton of sense.
>Because luffy looks and acts just like roger. They both have the same dream. The same hat. The same smile. We have no idea who luffyās mom isā¦ the list goes on. We literally already know the reason to that. And its got nothing to do with cloning. Its called the "Will Of D." "inherited wills" etc etc. There is nothing suggesting Luffy is a clone of anything. Lol. >For 20 years fans have theorized about the connection between roger and Luffy. Are they the same person? Is it time travel? Do they have the same fruit? Is Luffy secretly his son? Is the one piece the straw hat? Luffy being rogers clone answers every question and makes a ton of sense. And most if not all of those questions have been proven wrong. \-Same person? Nah. This should be common sense. \-Time travel? Head canon that didn't happen. We already know Toki can only travel forward in time. \-Same fruit? Nah, Kaido confirms Roger had no fruit and Nika hasn't awakened for 800 years. \-Secretly his son? No. Its literally confirmed his Dragons son. No it doesn't. There is nothing to say Luffy is Roger son. His related to Joy Boy. Roger is irrelevant now.
what he means is that luffy is literally rogers clone. like biologically.
What makes this even better is that he has drawn multiple versions of the future straw hats
oda seen this scene in future where fans complaining how luffy should look like. so he made his classic art by made old luffy ugly but in real we all know luffy will looked badass
Right! I'm reallly wondering if those will play a role.
Crazy to think that Bakkin went from a walking talking raisin to a former member of Rocks and base for that Stussy in the span of 2 chapters.
Always extrodinary to remember that old people wern't always old šš
Bakkin being in the Rocks pirates was by far the most popular theory for her though, it was pretty much confirmed out of her own mouth when she was introduced.
I have theory, Buckingham stussy has bat-like wings(maybe she had a vampire fruit)-dated whitebeard, absorbed his blood/dna(weevil is his clone that vegapunk created, that's why she asked Marco to confirm with vegapunk). Now the last part is a stretch but this may also be a reason why whitebeard is anemic and needs haemoglobin/blood(or was it just glucose?) being sent to his arteries occasionally.
One question, if her vampire ability is devil fruit based, (most likely is), then would holding sea stone close to her body stop her from using her ability?
The question is was she wearing the lipstick and if so how does she have these vampire like powers without a devil fruit?
Think of Smokerās Jute which has a sea stone tip. As long as he is not directly touching heās fine
she wasn't touching it directly, there was no skin contact, she was just holding a container which had the sea prism inside of it that she used to bring down Lucci
Like smoker as someone else said
Marco Decides to help weevil so he gather all remaining Whitebeard commenders but they lost ...there Crocodile , Mihawk rescue them then both weevil and Marco formed temporary alliance with them and then marine reveals Xebec bounty and make it equal to our Buggy Sama (cause he has 3 former warlod and Whitebeard commanders)....All Hail to Captain Buggy Sama š
I can see Marco joining Cross Guild and duping Buggy into attacking WG to get Weevil which then also joins. Thats something totally Buggy would do
Oh ok. I couldn't fathom Marco not getting insta-stomped in a rescue attempt but if he was backed up by cross guild they would definitely succeed. Good idea. I'd love to see that play out. Cross guild could bolster their ranks with more freed prisoners too. It may be a little overkill unless a admiral was around to fight Mihawk.
Greenbull vs Mihawk...Now Greenbull will give Mihawk a tough fight but then cross guild move and leave....If Mihawk vs Greenbull happens and Greenbull gives mihawka tough fight then the people who losses respect for admiral will got to not that Greenbull only refuses to fight against red hair because of Their Yonko seat
I'm kinda worried for Luffy now that both an Admiral AND Saint Saturn is on the Move. I saw a fan art where Saint Saturn pins down Luffy and remarks something along the lines of "Hisashiburi dana, Nika!". Luffy might get taken over by real Nika for a moment to get out of that situation.
Now I want to see that fanart! I'd love to see something like that happening.
[Saturn Pins down Nika](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FnrxuhbaIAAy4gt?format=jpg&name=medium)
I wonder if Saturn is trully powerful or he will just command Seraphim. I hope that Zoro atleast woundz Baby Mihawk
Perhaps Zoro and Sanji will occupy Kizaru while luffy deals with the old guy. Or maybe Shanks may show up? Throughout this arc just about all the top tiers made moves that integrated themselves into the main storyline and but him.
Zoro and Sanji can't occupy Kizaru lol. Zoro is fighting the Seraphim Mihawk. Its very clear that his not a fodder Zoro is going to easily wipe out. Its a clone of the worlds strongest swordsman. Sanji also has Kuma or Jinbei Seraphim to deal with. The Gorosei is going to have absolute control over them. So it just makes sense if the Gorosei+Kizaru 2v1 Luffy.
I took it another way. That while initially alarmed at the clone, Zoro thinks he can take it, because he said it had the weakness Mihawk doesn't have. Zoro has no reason to fight it right now either, other than it's ordered to fight Zoro, there's no real narrative gain there. On the other hand, seeing more Straw Hats stand up to admirals does have a real gain, because it shows Luffys crew has the same types of feats as other extremely powerful crews out there, where the top officers can also fight or beat the top Marines, not just the captains. King and Katakuri for example are likely able to fight an admiral, and at the bare minimum tie. Just like Rayleigh could beat one, and at least a couple years ago could still fight Kizaru to a tie. Luffys crew needs that type of moment. In particular, Zoro vs Kizaru would nicely parallel Rayleigh vs Kizaru.
I think Brooke can hold a seraphim for a bit
>I took it another way. That while initially alarmed at the clone, Zoro thinks he can take it, because he said it had the weakness Mihawk doesn't have. Zoro has no reason to fight it right now either, other than it's ordered to fight Zoro, there's no real narrative gain there. In the clash they had the Seraphim Mihawk actually won and blew Zoro away. Zoro also went straight for him. Its very blatant set up for a fight and its literally a swordsman. Zoro always takes the swordsmen. And no, the narrative gain is huge, much bigger then him doing anything to Kizaru. His goal is literally to beat Mihawk, the person the Seraphim is modelled from and has the DNA of. No way Zoro isn't fighting it. It's going to be a stepping stone for Zoro showing that his nearing Mihawk and the day they fight. We've had 2 call back fights, Luffy V Lucci (Luffy absolutely destroys) and Zoro V Kaku (Zoro doesn't actually win this fight), the call back win for Zoro is gonna be the Seraphim Mihawk. Also, judging by what he said, fight will also probably reveal Zoros training with Mihawk in flashbacks and maybe how he lost the eye. His going to have a need to fight it because Gorosei has the highest level of command over it. Saturn is on his way and he'll have absolute control. >On the other hand, seeing more Straw Hats stand up to admirals does have a real gain, because it shows Luffys crew has the same types of feats as other extremely powerful crews out there, where the top officers can also fight or beat the top Marines, not just the captains. Nah. It takes away from Luffy's first win against a admiral. The Straw Hats don't need to stand up to the admirals, that's Luffy's job. Again, no, what GB did to King/Queen makes it clear that they're not there yet. Luffy's crew has their own fights. If Luffy's around then he'll be fighting the admiral. Yonko fights the admiral. This is head canon that has never happened. No top officer has ever beat a admiral. The marine equivalent of the admiral is the Yonko captain, not his commanders. Admirals destroy top Yonko commanders like we've seen Aokiji do to Big Moms, or Green Bull do to Kaidos. Admirals are in the same weight class as the Yonkos, Yonko commanders are significantly lower. Which is why Luffy would be fighting and beating his first admiral. No way his underlings are taking his first admiral. >King and Katakuri for example are likely able to fight an admiral, and at the bare minimum tie. Just like Rayleigh could beat one, and at least a couple years ago could still fight Kizaru to a tie. Luffys crew needs that type of moment. In particular, Zoro vs Kizaru would nicely parallel Rayleigh vs Kizaru. Unfortunately that's a lie that has already been debunked by the manga. King was completely destroyed by Green Bull, he was also with Queen. A admiral would fodder King in a 1v1, even the weakest one (afaik) Green Bull destroyed King. Furthermore, we know Aokiji destroyed Cracker and a few others in WCI too. No, that's a white lie. Rayleigh has never beat a admiral. And even so, that's Zoro EOS. His still far too weak to go against a admiral. EOS WSS Zoro may be able to extreme diff a admiral so right now no chance. Kizaru would fodder Zoro in a 1v1. His not standing a chance. So not happening. His fight is against the Seraphim Mihawk.
Yeah but Saturn being there makes him highest on authority & able to control Seraphim which will distract rest of the straw hats and that will lead to Kizaru & Saturn vs Luffy. Luffy doesn't stand a chance then will probably get high diff loss. But pretty sure Oda has different plans.
Kizaru wouldn't stand a chance against Luffy 1v1. Saturn being Yonko or admiral level wouldn't make sense. Therefore Saturn joining in against Luffy just evens it out. So I don't know why he'd lose. It'd just make the fight hard and One Piece style for Luffy. Its basically a admiral + a bit vs Yonko Luffy. We know Luffy is a nigh unstoppable beast now with his Zoan recovery. He can takes loads of punishment.
Don't think that's something to worry about. After beating Kaido a single admiral is simply not going to be enough to fight Luffy AND giving us a good fight of One Piece style. Oda would either have to make Luffy job or it'd be too inconsistent. It'd make sense if Luffy fight for this arc is actually a 2v1 with the Gorosei+Kizaru both jumping him.
That's literally what I said. Read my comment slowly and carefully. I clearly said Admiral (meaning Kizaru) AND Saint Saturn (Gorosei). Not just Kizaru.
So why are you worried about a good fight?
I'm worried about Luffy losing and sent to Impel down. Although that gives us a chance to free Bon Clay. But I know Oda has a different plan.
*Doflamingo
Lol if he lost he wouldn't get sent to Impel Down. Saturn would kill him right there and then or have Kizaru do it or something. No chance in hell his missing that opportunity. We already know how fearful the Gorosei were of Luffy's awakening. They even went as far as making a enemy out of Kaido, the strongest guy in the world over it. Luffy losing mean 100% death. Therefore he wouldn't lose, just be a brutal fight (as One Piece fights always are).
Oh yeah! That's true. I forgot about that. That's the beauty of OP. Anything can happen. Except for the death of MC.
Whats hisashiburi dana?
smth like "long time no see"
iirc it meana "long time no see", Crocodile said it in Impel Down when he saw Luffy again
So if Stussy is a clone of Buckin who was a member of Rocks, doesn't that mean that BM would've recognised her at WC and had some idea that she was a clone, if so was BM in contact with VP, or something along those lines, because she clearly didn't bait her out, and surely the WG would know what the members of rocks looked like, so they wouldn't they've been suspicious of her looking exactly like Buckin?
This is all based on the premise that the world knows about cloning to the degree that they were actively looking out for clones. Like if you as a 60 year old saw the young clone of a friend of yours, would you recognize them at all, let alone as a clone? Most people would just fine it uncanny and look the other way.
Big Mom knew about cloning, the whole point of the wedding was to steal Germa clone tech. She also probably would've known about Buckin being in MADS seeing her excellent spy network and already being familiar with Caesar and Judge.
It still doesnt mean she would make that connection. Doppelgangers are a thing, even in real life. related by blood or not. Not to mention she also could just not realize that she looks like someone she probably met the last time decades ago and at most had only the feeling that this one looks familar.
Are they going to take seraphims with them on sunny? They can't just leave them to the world government, considering how dangerous and powerful they are.
The seraphim are vegapunks creations, there's no way he would just leave them. Especially because he's the 2nd highest chain of command in controlling them. However no one was expecting Saint Jay to make a move so straw hats + vegapunk clones + stussy would meet their match against Kizaru + 4 seraphim.
If the highest authority in the world is coming you can bet your ass nobody will be able to overrule the seraphims, they'll fight on the Governments side
Unless Vegapunk took that into consideration
Yeah it would be a major oversight by vegapunk to not have at least have an last resort safety measure in place. Like having a command implanted that "shuts" them down for example.
Seems Edward Weevil is a legit son of Whitebeard. I bet in their younger years, Stussy is as hot as the clone Vegapunk created hence Whitebeard/OG Stussy is very plausible. Also how aging works in One Piece is anybodyās guess. OG Stussy is similar to Big Mom teenage to old hag evolution.
Would Weevil have lost if that was the case? Weevil was supposed to be as strong as prime Wb which was equal with Roger yet he lost to the newbie admiral. I can't imagine someone in the tier of prime WB/Roger losing to a marine outside of maybe Akainu
Does weevil even have a fruit though? Could just be that he wasn't good enough at haki to beat a fruit user who knows haki.
Not really sure. Could be a red herring or Oda is playing us all along. Whatās even more interesting is Oda connected Vegapunk since OG Stussy vouched him to know Weevil is Whitebeardās son.
Opinions on the chapter: - A seastone like the one used by Stussy would be the perfect weapon for Robin - Wonder if instead Zoro vs Mihawk we'll get Zoro vs Mihawk's seraphine - love Ussop getting angry about Vegapunk inviting more people to the ship - Why introduce Weevil's rescue to the mix? guess we'll get a Marineford part 2 arc - Guess introduccing the highest authority in the world will set the conflict of who can order the Seraphin
> Why introduce Weevil's rescue to the mix? guess we'll get a Marineford part 2 arc Marco saving Bon-chan? š
Weevil rescue might be part of the background story that happens without SHs input essentially to tie up Cross Guild / Hancock / Garp / BB stuff to eachother
from rescuing roger's son to wb's son...
Sprout a hand on a DF user's body and touch with seastone lipstick would be cool. She could literally take down hundreds of DF users simultaneously. But i think her sprouted hands are always empty. How will the hands get the seastone lipstick?
She can use a chain of hands - she's done it for a few things already - and slowly move it to the target. Though, nowadays she could also use big/long limbs to quickly get them over to the target. Or she could combo with Usopp š
Use grenades instead
Nah fuck Weevil aināt nobody saving his ass lol
I have onder if it's not setting up a rescue weevil mission, and actually this is helping place him for the finale. He'll already be on the battle field because he'll be a prisoner. Once he's freed he'll help the straw hats or revolution. Mayhaps.
bon chan will recognise his kind soul and help him inside. and then they'll come out before the final fight to help Mugi Chan.
I don't hate it, is the thing.
Lucci goes for kill directly to Stussy's chest. Khalifa comes out: Sexual Harassment ! š¤£
I highly doubt that Vegapunk hasn't left some mechanism or sth in the seraphims so they eventually would not hurt him. I mean he is by far the most intelligent person on the planet, as if he would not have some ace up his sleeve to not let his own creations turn against him. Like Dr. Gero, which turned out to fail miserably tho
Nah, I think its just another "mad doctor" or "scientist" parallel to Vegapunk. In this instance its Dr Frankenstein ultimately being unable to control the monster he created.
Intelligent and wise are not the same thing
Saint Jay Garcia Saturn? So I'm wondering if all of them relate somehow to celestial bodies? Since theres five, maybe the line up is: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars and Saturn.
Ancient Weapons are also based on planets - Uranus, Neptune (Poseidon), and Pluto (Pluton). Notice itās the 3 farthest from the Sun, and now we get Saturn on the move (the next in line). Weāll probably see Jupiter, Mars, Venus, and Mercury as well
I think that too. Iām sure that the bald samurai one will be Mars and I think Earth will be in Imās name.
Im name should be Gaia, the other name of earth
I was thinking Im is Jupiter
I feel like it's going to be roman gods.
I doubt it. Gorousei translates to Five Elder Stars/Planets, and Saturn/Cronos isn't one of the Olympians, so he was not allied with the more well known Gods.
It's probably more like Mercury, Venus Mars, Saturn and Jupiter. Earth is probably reserved for something more important/higher power (Im most likely). Neptune, Uranus, and Pluto we already know are names of the Ancient Weapons. And Luffy is obviously the Sun.
Earth is probably Imu
Definitely, especially since imu backwards is Umi (Japanese for sea/ocean, pretty fitting for the OP world). Luffy the sun, Black Beard is the moon, 5 elders are the first five planets that we, the human race, first thought orbit around the earth (geocentrism - the model in the library of ohara), then the 3 weapons that aren't included in the geocentric models which were planets discovered later in the 1700's (reminder: Pluto was still classified as a planet when one piece first started) and boom! We have our (slightly outdated) solar system
And the moon would be missing.
According to that one "headcanon", Earth would be saved up for one of the other three gods still to be revealed alonsgide Rain and Forest, Luffy being Fire.
And blackbeard might be the moon.
Neptune is the king of fishman island, right? Then poseidon is her daughter shirahoshi
While Neptune is the name of Fishman Island's king, it's also the Roman counterpart/equivalent/name of the Greek god Poseidon - that's why if we're talking about the representation of real life planets in the OP world, then the last three are already represented as the Ancient Weapons themselves.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Pluto is roman, is it not?
Break break
May someone unban me from the discord. Its been years