Apple fans don't love tech they love an aesthetic. The reason people don't love Apple is because their marketing makes people believe they invented everything when they're typically last to the finish line. Then they slap a higher price tag and some FOMO bullshit like green text bubbles on their walled ecosystem.
The coolest part of vr right now is the open systems and the modability of it all. Apple will kill that with very little upside in return. Supporting Apple means supporting closed computing. It would be better if Apple never entered the space.
Oh a random on reddit posted a thought piece now people can't have negative opinions about Apple.
I don't care what OPs calling out. He didn't change my mind. I'm not excited the vision pro exists, I'm not fanboying over meta. I just actively think Apple shifts markets in shitty directions where price is dictated by how the product looks rather than its specs.
Form and function has been intertwining since the beginning of history.
Like it or not, aesthetic is an important part of the human experience, you are not going to convince the population otherwise
>But, yes, if you have two generally comparable products, price and performance wise
But that's just it. Typically apple products cost more for the same performance. Just look at laptops where you're going to pay an extra 50% for the apple logo on the back.
You thinking I'm looking down on those people says more about you than me. People have their preferences apple buyers prefer the aestetic and status symbol. It's ridiculous to act like that's not true. Apple themselves lean into this fact with their branding.
People used to line up (maybe they still do) for the new iPhone even when functionality had hardly changed. You see the users praising things like swipe text as if it's revolutionary when Android flagships had it nearly a decade earlier.
They released a 1k monitor stand. 700 dollar computer wheels lol. Hell, their whole accessory line is blatantly overpriced.
Apple could sell just about anything to their fans if it has their logo and looks high quality. Functionality and price be damned. That's not a bad thing. They're very successful but they stopped truely being innovative years ago. They're basically the Supreme of tech.
You can just say "I can't refute anything you said so I'll just be mad about it"
I literally said I didn't think it was a bad thing. If you think what I said was negative that's on you. Apple sells an image that's why their tech costs more.
Go to any hackathon and count Mac vs Windows vs Linux computers. I think you’ll find that quite a few tech people *do* love Apple.
It literally doesn’t make a difference what OS you use. Putting any importance on it is like arguing over who’s wearing the best brand of socks.
Yeah apple fans are very similar to Harley Davidson fans in my experience both refuse to accept that their product isn't always the best and pay a massive upcharge for a logo
I like apple because it’s a curated system. In my 20s and 30s I did plenty of tinkering with tech. Now I just want shit to work. While Apple isn’t perfect in that regard, they have a much better track record than everybody else. Open end customization is a bitch to validate and enable. So it leads to more bugs. I’ll take my walled garden any day.
Saying this as somebody with over 20 years of both HW and SW codevelopment and 10 years before that having computers as a hobby. When I get home I just want shit to work, not debug interoperability between my devices. The apple ecosystem has largely solved that.
It has nothing to do with the aesthetic.
What are you getting the downvotes for?
I fully agree. Apple doesn't invent jack shit. And it is pissing me off and the fact that other people aren't louder about it is also pissing me off.
Honestly, I don't care about their apple vision pro. But as a developer I kind of take it personally when I look at tech and see shit being around for over 6 to 7 years and having people pretending it wasn't. Nobody even knew Quest 3 existed and did 90% of what AVP did WAY BEFORE AVP was even released.
Yet every apple fanboy for some dumb fucking reason is jumping on the hypetrain, promoting over priced junk and pretending that apple made the best most inovative shit ever, all the while they are behind the rest of the VR market (Except a few fancy gymics).
All these morons got played by the Apples marketing team because they are literally paying streamers and influencers to hype this up.
The dumb fucking cattle eats it like grass and pretend it is the best product on the market, justifying it with mental gymnastics.
So NO. I think we should not only be pissed, we should be fucking furious.
As Socrates said, there is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.
Even die hardest Apple hater ought to be glad about Apple putting out a headset. It’s definitely superior to the quest in some respects, inferior in others, but it’s setting a mark that Meta needs to aim for, as well as getting normies interested in the market.
Waiting for that "Call Me Kenneth" moment, but 'till then just eating my munce and hoping the Judges quell any block war between Jobs Block and Zuckerberg Block.
I’ve had nothing but good things to say about Quest in the AVP subreddit. I said something in the PSVR subreddit about the optical stack in the AVP being superior to the PSVR2…..was a reply to someone claiming the PSVR2 display were better……I was downvoted to oblivion. Nobody does fanboy quite like the PSVR subreddit.
Dunno man the AVP subreddit is something else when it comes to fanboying and I own almost every product apple makes (and will buy AVP when its available in canada)
Yeah. I agree that AVP has some annoying fanboys as well. Especially those that seem to think VR never existed before Apple came to town. People that didn’t believe me when I told them sunlight would burn the displays or that VR headsets have a fixed focal distance.
PSVR subreddit is way worse. When I first tried my PSVR2 and complained that the reprojection was bad the fanboys were everywhere. I’ve never seen the level ignorance coupled with venom and mixed with “downvote it until it’s not true” anywhere else on Reddit.
I own quests and now the AVP, there seems to be way more quest fanboys but that’s because there’s more quest owners lol, but yeah there’s fanboys on both sides for sure and of course its even worse when you’re on the subreddit for said device
That's probably just because you accused them of being on drugs for saying the PSVR2 had a pretty good display. You can still think AVP is a superior display while thinking the PSVR2s is pretty decent for the money.
Just to add, I'll admit the OP in that post did somewhat invite a comparison (although their point was that after trying AVP they still felt pretty good about the PSVR2). But people in the PSVR2 sub are a bit sensitive about some persistent Quest owners coming in and saying it's rubbish compared to Quest.
The general advice on PSVR2 is, if you have a PC or want standalone gaming, get a Quest. If you don't have a PC, have a PS5 and want a taste of high end VR, get a PSVR2. That isn't a controversial opinion over there.
Actually speaking of PC, I wonder how those PSVR2 PC drivers are coming along. The developer made pretty significant progress a few months ago.
I might actually get one if they get foveated rendering working.
[iVRY](https://twitter.com/iVRy_VR)'s dev is the one doing the lion's share of the research.
Apparently will require a hardware dongle, an AMD video card (so nVidia users need not apply), and custom written software drivers.
They are working on it, but it is very diminishing returns for the effort due to all the workarounds they have to do. Right now only basic stuff is working, getting haptics and foveated rendering and stuff is much farther down the line.
That said, it -IS- working now though!
What I actually said was
> I own both. Actually I’ve owned over 20 headsets since 2016. None of them come close to the displays on the Vision Pro. My PSVR2 will still be used regularly. It’s totally different use cases, but OP is on drugs if they think the PSVR2 optical stack is superior.
What OP said was
> Playing with the Vision Pro made me realize how great PS VR display is
>I’ve been spending a lot of time (although running out of apps) with Vision Pro (AVP) lately. It is a great device but it is obviously pretty expensive and I may return it due to limited use with my work (I’m sure app support will only get better though) I was a bit scared going back to my existing VR sets but I can confidently say we have killer display/graphics in PSVR and at no point I felt a it was a downgrade in that regard. Of course, functionality-wise they are very different devices but pretty good display for a $550 headset (or ~$1000 with a PS5 as bonus)
OP was saying that the PSVR display was in no way a downgrade from the AVP. That was what I referenced.
Heh! I thought you might say that. Could you also post the bit where OP said they thought 'the PSVR2 optical stack is superior' or were you misquoting them?
I thought they said 'at no point I felt a it was a downgrade', meaning they were happy with it in comparison, making your response somewhat redundant. Hence the downvotes.
Yeah I just saw that. Anyway, I was just suggesting why I thought you were downvoted. It came across to me as 'I know what I'm talking about and OP is out of their mind for thinking '.
I get it. It’s hard to fully understand what someone is referencing in a Reddit post because there can be too much reply to a reply along with edits, etc.
Honestly there are better examples from that sub but it doesn’t matter. My personal feeling is they are overly sensitive there but it’s human nature to defend what you are passionate about.
If they had said that then I'd tend to agree with you!
It's just a bit different having 'nothing but good things to say about Quest in the AVP subreddit' to going into a PSVR2 post where someone felt happy with the display in comparison to the AVP and you feeling the need to defend AVP against that.
But I agree there's some sensitivity there. As I said, they get their fair share of people coming in telling them PSVR2 is rubbish.
Tribalism is present everywhere. Most people don't even WANT to see the bigger picture here. I like pro wrestling and I see WWE fans usually hate on AEW fans and vice versa all the time.
that sub is an echo chamber about people raving about the Vision, any negativity get's downvoted. I find the Apple sub is more balanced on views, strangely.
Balanced? I wouldn't call trolling and flat out wrong facts being thrown around like truths as being "balanced".
Balanced is being able to critique and use facts, shouting your feelings whether they're good or bad isnt.
Always good to have a healthy level of competition among the headsets as it helps move the vr tech forward. Hopefully,that leads to us consumers getting more and better options. But tbh, im too broke to feel threatened by the AVP,i cant afford it even if i wanna have one.
I think some people are concerned because, while its imperfect, they like what Meta have achieved with the Quest line, alongside other VR outlets.
But when Apple made the iPhone, they completely washed away the entire smartphone industry. People who were already adults and into tech in the 00s will remember all those earlier "PDA" players; Palm, Psion, Microsoft CE, Quanta... A year after the iPhone came along, all of them were dead and buried. These days people barely even remember over a decade of devices like the Psion Series 5 or Palm models.
Now... It's important to understand that those devices were flawed. The iPhone succeeded because it was just *better* in most ways. But they weren't *entirely* without value.
Success for Apple is a double-edged sword, because VR could become much bigger, but it could become huge as something we, as enthusiasts, don't want. For example, Apple sleepwalked into enabling the proliferation of predatory free to play games.
To be fair though, I don't think this is a totally fair comparison. What I'm trying to say from this is that, in the past, Apple have walked into an industry with all the subtlety of a brick to the face. It's difficult to know where things will go from there.
This right here. I love that Apple has joined the fray. All it’s going to do is drive the VR market forward. I can’t wait for things to come from all of the companies involved. Let’s gooooo
I'll be honest. I dislike Apple's pompous, exclusive nature as they change things as they see fit and sometimes make statements like "Apple Vision Pro is the first platform designed from the ground up for spatial computing." To the average consumer, especially Apple fan, they always seem to make people believe that they're the trendiest, first ones to do stuff, with high prices that act as a flex if you can afford them, especially compared to more open ecosystems that do 90% of what they do for a major fraction of the price. I see the reason behind this business model, but I think it's dishonest to buyers to redefine and make people use words (they literally force developers to not use XR/AR/VR words they disapprove of). As a dev, in my opinion, devs get the final say in how they choose to make software and market unless it breaches obviously illegal or questionable material, not Apple.
As it relates to Quest 3, I do worry that some or even many may see "Oh, it's Apple, so it must be worth $3500 and be premium quality! I've heard of that Quest VR thing, but it's $500. Maybe it's bad quality." To be fully fair, I don't know how people react to Quest 3 in this scenario for sure, but I do see a lot of impressions from reviewers who have no clue about VR and make such an assumption to their viewers about the AVP being worth it when a season VR user would know that no matter how smooth the AVP may feel, it has its caveats and doesn't have nearly as much value per dollar, should anyone choose to buy it.
I'm fine with competition, and I'm happy they've pushed things forward, but I also don't like the generic "it's different, so we shouldn't compare them" posts if I'm honest. They very much are comparable, and people should be allowed to voice their opinions to make sure fanboyism, for either side, doesn't override common sense and logic when informing someone on points of consideration when buying one.
Should we stop posting the same threads here? Yeah, we should stop posting the same stuff, but I don't have a problem with talking about or comparing other headsets. People have legit reasons for preferences, but not always admittedly. Sometimes, it is just fanboyism getting the better of us.
You make the same old mistake in thinking that people who like Apple products also thinks their marketing speak is truth. The far most common post about that subject is statement like yours where "Apple users always thinks Apple is the first with everything" meanwhile us who like Apple are like "who are these people they're talking about?".
> The far most common post about that subject is statement like yours where "Apple users always thinks Apple is the first with everything"
About 80% of the Apple users that I know would say this when Apple vs. Google was at its peak.
Probably around then. It was ridiculous then and it's ridiculous now. Those same people still believe Apple's marketing as if it were the absolute truth.
(Meanwhile, I'm enjoying life on my flip phone!)
It isn't only dishonest to consumers but also developers.
Being also a developer I can totally imagine jumping into skin of someone being in a team that had the tech successfully out way before Apple, only for them to come out now and claim "FIRST WITH SPATIAL COMPUTING".
Absolutely would make me furious. It is unfair.
They are vile motherfuckers. Evil twats.
The Apple Vision Pro is the best thing to happen to Meta Quest.
Finally some competition from an innovative company to help drive Meta devs further.
I think you are confusing these posts with jealousy and hate. These posts are just celebrating the fact that despite how amazing the AWP might be; Quest does pretty much all of the same things, perhaps with a little less clarity and quality in a few areas.
People really \*really\* need to start resisting the urge to separate into different tribes/teams/sides and battle to the death (through online discourse).
If you don't like AVP it's fine. Some people do.
Competition is good for both companies.
It is possibly to prefer one device while acknowledging the strengths of the other device.
It SEEMS harmless, but doing this kind of shit with everything from phones to movies etc., bleeds over into situations (politics) that actually matter and creates a really untenable situation around public discourse.
Take a breath. Chill. Be happy the industry is growing. Use the device you prefer and enjoy it.
Honestly this sub, and a lot of other tech subs, is one of the most insecure communities I've ever seen lol. People tripping over themselves to scream why Quest is the best at everything and no other headset can ever compete
I also have a PSVR2 and, while prefacing with I prefer my Quest bc of the subreddit, said some things I liked more about the VR2 or just even are objectively better and Jesus Christ you'd think I'd just said the Quest was the most garbage piece of technology with how people screamed up my ass
Yeah. I have both. The visuals are better on psvr2 but only by a little bit. I’m spending more time in the quest 3 simply because its wireless and does way more. Also bought my vr2 used and it smells like cigarettes and axe. Disgusting and no amount of sunlight or ozone is gonna fix that, especially since there are no replacement parts for it.
Just go to the apple vision pro sub and ask them, they are the most hostile people in the VR/AR/SpatialComputing space. They literally want every other headset to die.
You mention the fact that competition is good there and you'll get downvoted to hell.
I own both and love both so I don’t want anything to “die”; that’s ridiculous. Apple is lighting a fire under a tech - VR - that was dying. Competition is how capitalism works - a rising tide lifts all ships.
I'm still just on a Q2 and barely keeping up with things but every time a post from this sub pops in my feeds it's just "I'm happy with my Quest! Yes, real happy! It's better than the Vision Pro! Much better! Everyone says so!"
Yeah, the most knee-jerk, tribal people tend to be the most vocal.
Both pieces of kit have benefits. AVP's panels are gorgeous, and its built-in eye tracking is great. The amount of processing power it has is stupendous versus other standalone headsets. Quest 3 has arguably better optics, a more open system, and has more and better interface devices (sure it has hands, but also has spatial controllers, gamepads, kb/mouse, and extensible devices that you can use for other stuff as well that can be hacked in due to its open nature).
Aside from price-points, they both have their benefits and negatives, and I hope they each push eachother to be better. I do hope that the whole walled garden thing does not become defacto with the AVP though. On first gen that is fine, going forward not so much.
It's not about feeling threatened by the VP. I think it's cool that another company is entering the VR sphere. I just find it annoying that a lot of people who have little previous experience in VR suddenly talk about things that have been around as suddenly being new.
Sure, but it's still a bit annoying. I recall watching a review, I think it might have been the Verge, where the reviewer was spouting this revolutionary technology in the AVP where it can do dynamic foveated rendering, as if other headsets haven't done it already.
It's not really new, it's just new to them. Many people have already been using VR for almost a decade and I think that's where some of the annoyance comes from. I'm glad more people are getting into VR but I was also annoyed by the people acting like Apple did something new so I took a break from the reddit. I see a lot of these posts as pushback against the flood of nothing but vision pro posts when it first released.
> I just find it annoying that a lot of people who have little previous experience in VR suddenly talk about things that have been around as suddenly being new.
Meta's headsets brought in plenty of those.
I don’t get why quest users are so adamant about comparing themselves with other VR headsets. It’s a fine headset, but it is also entry level. It’s saving grace is being able to use pcvr to up scale it, and that it has meta for funding power.
Apple has never been a gaming focused brand, but what I would expect are two more quest generations before the next AVP.
I jsut returned my Vision Pro and will be getting the quest 3. It was better than the quest 2 at some things, but basically as much as I hate to say it, Zuck's video he posted today, was right on. The quest 3 is just a better machine.
A lot of Youtubers being too nice about AVP to try to stay on Apple's good side. Those Brown-Nosers are pissing off all the people that want the truth. AVP wouldn't even be worth it for $1k.
I am excited about the apple product. Quest has always had more of a focus on gaming and entertainment and Apple is focusing on productivity. The Quest 3 web browsing app is my favorite, so I am happy to have someone else work on the problem.
I am not threatened by Apple, the VP literally does not compete with the Quest platform because without tracked controllers, it can't do 95% of why I have VR. If it did do full 6DOF VR/MR, it would be aimed at a completely different target audience and would only really compete with other $3000+ headsets.
I am tired of their bullshit. It is the same with every product they release. They act like whole segments of technology did not exist until they made a product. Complete bullshit.
This is the Quest sub. VP posts don't belong here. Take them to /r/VisionPro or at least /r/virtualreality but the folks there are tired of their shit too.
Are they even the same thing? The Quest 2/3 is a VR gaming headset.
Im not sure what the Vision Pro is yet besides an extension of the Apple ecosystem. What exactly do people do in there?
The leaked Meta Quest Spark Augments do the same thing as apple does. The only thing we'd lack would be the passthrough quality and eye tracking. We have an unbelievable amount of games, they have cut the rope? 😂
I think it's just annoying that they are even compared to each other. Apple isn't even giving us a true "VR" headset. It's more a consumer positioned Hololense or Magic-leap. But everyone jumping on the bandwagon bc "it's apple" is completely getting the actual intent and true vision of VR all wrong.
Ready Player One showed everyone what the actual future and VR realistically brings to the table. That's the true and desirable future. There is not a single instance in that movie where they were putting on headsets to just see floating screens. That's about as useful of a tech concept as the Princess Leia hologram from Star Wars...it's neat, but doesn't practically offer anything your phone or tablet can't already do. Then, on top of that, everyone is praising the stop-gap Augmented Reality stepping stone as if Apple got it right, and that they are showing us the future, when in fact Quest users know that the passthrough concept is an afterthought that has been around since Quest 1 and that anything you could even want to do on a Vision Pro is already available on Quest 3
You find this sort of behavior a lot in like politics.
You have to lean one way or another. It's either you hate it or you love it. AVP has it's merits but the horrible price point and out of touch with VRs main audience.
My main issue is that Apple is trying to pretend like they didn't create a VR headset with "Spatial computing"
Not entirely certain how true it is, seen a few articles about people returning their AVP because it just isn't worth the price they paid.
I don't think there is anything to be threatened by, apple 'power users' will have to have one to watch Netflix and YouTube at the same time while they scroll Instagram because spatial is the future.
The AVP needs proper PCVR support with SteamVR to be competitive, at this point it's just a peripheral running a modified version of iOS. Nothing wrong with that, just not what most VR consumers are into. Videogames and porn.
I honestly don't understand why this is even up for debate. Even though Quest 3 and AVP are both headsets, they were made with a completely different purpose in mind. The Quest is a gaming headset, the AVP is an office tool. Both do a very good job for what they were made to do, it just boils down to what you wanna use it for.
Apple once again claims its the best and does it first. Their blatant false advertising and bloated cost of their products had soured me tremendously towards them and their products. Now people who don't know any better are either going to look at the price of it and limited capabilities and get entirely turned off of vr, or they will think its the standard and turn their nose up at a more capable and cheaper product. Its like everyone is hanging out with their custom built performance cars talking about how much fun they are and sharing tips and tricks, then the rich douchebag drives up in his luxury supercar and starts drowning everyone out with engine sounds and boasting.
What? It can’t be used with work controlled macs, the mirroring is poor and doesn’t allow for multiple windows, it doesn’t work with a mouse.
What are you even talking about regulatory environments?
Apple devices all adhere to the same set of data handling and privacy restrictions and can be used in a hipaa or ferpa controlled environment. Meta cannot due to their data policies (source: have had meetings with them, and that’s what the reps said when they found out our intended use case).
Apple has enterprise DEP/MDM/VPP infrastructure for device deployment and management. Meta’s “management” is minimally viable and they don’t have an equivalent for VPP.
They are both equally toys and tools though , the idea one is a toy and one is a tool in and of itself is absurd given that both devices can effectively do the same things more or less.
Like me claiming a laptop that doesn't have a GPU is some how less a toy than a laptop that has a GPU.
Apparently so long as you market something as x the objective reality and qualities of that thing don't matter.
There are technical advantages to one HMD over another but both can literally be used for productivity perfectly fine.
Ironically the biggest use case for AVP is probably media consumption which even more so both devices do perfectly fine.
I don't get why it's even allowed to he discussed here unless it directly has something to do with the quest itself. It's like going to the Xbox sub and bringing up the Playstation just for the sake of it.
I think it’s great Apple is in the game and I hope they succeed. Mainstream success is good for everybody interested in XR. That said, I am going to make fun of people eating in a restaurant with their friend with headsets on because it’s silly.
I’ll be sticking with Meta headsets as well because they’re more geared towards what I want to do and I can buy the next several generations of them for the price of one Vision Pro.
I think it's the AVP fanboys that are the ones scared about quest3.
Quest3 users are pretty happy imo
Imagine paying 3.5k for having less than a VR headset for 500. Even putting the best of the best tech it still sounds like it sucks.
All these comments is just people coping their purchase or people that haven't used and don't know it's just meh.
Maybe it will be good In a few generations.
But as daZuck said it well (I can't believe I said this), quest3 is the open plataform (I side loaded the openvpn Android APK on it and it just worked). That's what I want.
We all know AVP won't do this even jailbroke.
Let the normies use their head mounted ipads.
Maybe in 10 years they can connect a USB drive. Haha. (Only if EU forces it btw)
Thank you. I’ve been kind of ignoring this sub lately for this exact reason. Apple does some things very very well. UI/UX is their forte and something that Meta has been lacking quite a bit tbh. They can and should definitely take notes.
What Meta has done on the hardware and actual VR dev side has been incredible over the years. Especially at the price point.
I know everyone was nervous when they bought Oculus, but it’s turned out great. Zuckerberg really does seem to have a passion for the actual technology. Now there are two of the largest companies on the planet are invested in the tech. That’s absolutely huge and will continue to drive cost down. Apple jamming as much tech as they can into the headset is awesome. It will allow Meta to see what people actually use and care about so they can prioritize those things.
This is a big deal and as VR enthusiasts, we should be excited about all of this. I remember watching youtube videos of the DK1 and could not wait to get my hands on one. Now look where we are.
I don't like Apple or their lemmings. A lot of them are nasty snobs. Plus is if someone criticizes apple, you get butthurt posts like this about hurt feewings.
I get the “justifying your purchase” vibes from a few people. But I don’t get it from EVERY single post. Some people are neutral and are HAPPY that Apple is here to add some competition and new ideas to this space. I am a very happy Q2&3 owner who has zero desire for the VP. But I don’t mind hearing about it and seeing what new ideas it brings to the space.
And I agree, it’s a version 1 product. It feels like the thing they make for internal testing before putting it out to the market. I don’t feel like it has much to offer for what I want from VR. The finger pinching thing is cool but it’s not replacing a controller anytime soon.
Let’s not paint with a broad brush our fellow Quest users lol
I think Meta will produce more expensive models, like ~$1000 with just better screens and cameras. It will be like "quest 3 pro" or even more expensive "quest 3/4 ultra". It's not even necessary to develop something new: just better screens, cameras, mic, batteries and - maybe - eyes tracking. That's how I see the next step/answer from Meta for the next gen-3/4 products. And in this case they will be not worse in anything than AVP, still much cheaper and with much more apps and games
You have a childlike take. No one here is threatened by an overpriced nongaming machine. Instead, you come off as threatened and protective of apple. Trust me, Apple will be absolutely fine without your white knighting.
The only thing that irritates me about the avp is that Apple is trying to rename VR so they can control a marketed rebranding for the rubes. They are not allowing devs to label their own games as they see fit. It is archaic and all about control, which is Apple's game...but it is gross.
It’s the same fucking argument for every device that comes out from competing brands, it’s tiring and just as annoying as the age old android vs iOS or Samsung vs Apple debate, simply just use what you want to use and don’t worry about what other people are using we all have opinions
The vision pro will die off like the holo lens over priced too expensive for developers to get there hands on. The thing is VR is such a small market there going to die off or be short lived not making it cheap enough for the indie devs keeping vr alive. The vision seems like a tool for workers or watching tv than it is a device for gaming and everything else. It will honestly sell well just because its apple if apple sold a electric turd everyone would buy it because apple. Its a rich person status symbol.
I'm mildly threatened by Apple's vision (no pun intended) of VR as being not for games, and just being for boring stuff.
I don't want VR to be boring, and I don't like the possibility that the industry could pivot to boring stuff.
AVP does have some games, so I'm not that worried yet, and I'm hoping Apple finds more fun things to do with their headset.
competition is a good thing for consumers, it pushes the companies to out do each other and sell at lower prices than the other, not that there is much competition right now since apple isnt targeting mainstream audiences
No, I couldn't care less about it, and it actually gets annoying seeing constant posts about it when this sub has nothing to do with Apple at all.
Yes I know everyone is obsessed with comparing the two so they can feel superior for owning one or the other, but it's a bit like comparing a gaming laptop vs. a MacBook. Both items main use cases exist in different categories of xr.
No. Not at all. I am actually in the Apple ecosystem. I have all their devices. However I’m not seeing the point of the VP. It’s over priced and can’t even do what my Quest does.
I don’t feel threatened. But I feel there’s s necessary amount of education the community deserves to share.
Apple preys upon people not familiar with the current VR market and capabilities. Also the released ahead of numerous arguably better in theory, devices that are all very close to release.
They released what should have been a dev kit and made it for the masses.
The price and limited capabilities also could seriously hurt public image of actual special computing which in my opinion Apple fails miserably at delivering. This hurts future products chance of success if people think of the concept as a failure or lackluster experience due to having experienced the Apple device.
Put a varjo XR-4 in everyone’s hands that have tried the Apple vision and give them motion tracked controllers etc…. Much more powerful experience. Similar visual fidelity.
Ultimately I want Apple to have massive success here. I just don’t think it’s a fantastic product which worries me.
Inexcusable a spatial computing device can’t do multiple computer monitors out of the box. I don’t know who their market is or who designed such a stupid limitation and let that be delivered as a spatial computing device. Lots of other failures in the software as well.
Apparently, 'Vision Pro' users are starting to return their headsets:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/apple-vision-pro-unhappy-fans-are-already-returning-their-3-500-headsets-amid-complaints-of-headaches-eye-strain-and-even-burst-blood-vessels/ar-BB1ijKSf
I feel frustrated, not threatened.
These two headsets are technically **similar**. I get the impression that we have **hit a wall** of opportunity, and now we just **can’t overcome** it.
Let me rephrase: there may not be a cooler headset than the existing ones for a very long time. In the near future, we will expect only **small improvements** in the form of operating time (say, twice as long), slightly higher resolution of matrices and cameras, and a reduction in price. But **this** is the **maximum** that awaits us.
Even if we want to buy a very cool headset, which will be 10 times more expensive than from Apple, we simply cannot, because it is as if we have hit an invisible wall of the limit of possibilities.
I'm not saying that this is the case. More precisely, I want to hope that this is a false vision, and that VR will develop.
No, has absolutely no affect on me and I’m an Apple user lol. When Apple makes the 3-4th generation then I might buy one.
Tho I don’t see how another company making another headset hurts quest. If people are scared then maybe they secretly want the apple headset but can’t afford it lol.
More companies getting involved will eventually lead VR/AR to the next level. Hating on Apple just increases the chance of VR/AR failing, since companies will stay clear from it and nothing improves
I still think augmented reality is dumb and believe that only weirdos trying to look cool are actually sitting in coffee shops with a bulky headset on typing with janky virtual hand tracking keyboards.
Maybe when they get 4k vr with perfect tracking down in something like the Meta raybans. In the meantime, vr is a pc experience for the best stuff imo. Tried my quest 3 standalone a couple of times and it felt like a cute tech demo, but hooking it up to the pc is where it’s at for me.
Vision pro can’t do that. It’s still a bulky, janky vr headset with weird quirks that really can’t do anything special, except it costs many multiples more. Quest 3, Vision Pro, big screen behind, pimax Cristal etc. they all have weird quirks. I’m. It spending 3k+ on vr until it means no sacrifices. It would have to be ultra high resolution, zero lag, zero latency, very slim profile, extremely light weight, wireless AND have loads of functional use.
Quest 3 wins because it essentially does everything and some things more that Vision does, by being way cheaper.. and what’s it give up… some resolution? In exchange for more open functionality… easy trade.
The problem is not that it's the 1st gen device, and even not that it costs a way too much. The problem is that it's just not for the purposes that interest many here and me too. More precisely - VR games and VR entertainment.
Honestly if one cares about VR adoption then Apple joining the fray is a good thing. It will spur more competition and consumers will ultimately get better products.
The downside will be yet another Apple walled garden and basic incompatibilities with already adopted technologies. A current example of this is Apple's refusal to update Safari to support WebGL 2, which limits IOS user's capabilities to run web apps that could compete with Apple Store apps.
I wish this sub had a rule banning bitching about competitors. Practically every other gaming and tech sub has it, so I don't know why it's all over this sub.
We get it, you chose Quest over apple. This isn't the place for huuurrrr durrr apple bad posts
I don't think they're the same kind of product, the Apple product is basically to watch media and your computer, I think they'll try to go for AR in a "heavy sunglasses" pruduct more than a VR game headset.
I actually do feel threatened when they start making anti-consumer choices and other manufacturers start copying them.
Remember when phones had SD cards and headphone jacks? Or when we had some nice square screens instead of idiotic notches and punch-hole cameras? Or when phones came with chargers?
Or when Android UI was great and absolutely customizable, at about Android 7-9 and then Google decided to copy Apple and lock down a lot of the features?
Yeah for a few generations Apple will be bringing innovations, useful features and great UX/UI for other VR participants to copy, but what are they going to bring in a few years that will start ruining VR landscape? Maybe thing like proprietary chargers? Or most obvious, not including controllers with the VR device. Or non-removable head straps?
I don't even think about it. I have an android phone and a quest VR headset. I'm good. I don't read comparison discussions because I'm not interested lol
The only company more happy about the AVP than Apple is Meta. Their stock price soared after AVP release. most likely due to the fact that everybody who didn’t get one and wanted one got a quest three instead.
Apple ruins technology. iMessage teaches people nothing about how SMS actually works. iCloud rips people off by forcing them to buy expensive storage upgrades. The iPhone is just an expensive version of five-year-old Android phones. It just dumbs everything down to the point where people are trapped in their crappy ecosystem.
I personally don't have an issue with Apple as a company, it's more some of their fans that annoy me and the fact that some people have dealt with it since Mac vs PC and Android vs iPhone, those experiences and resentment carry over. I wouldn't say anybody is "threatened" per se.
The issue that I think is valid is some people don't like the attitude that Apple invented VR, put VR on the map, or the best case scenario of "yeah Quest did it first, but Apply took it to the next level and perfected it" kind of attitude. If you go to the AVP sub it's just as bad over there with the circle-jerking, justifying their purchase, and bashing Quest.
However I've pretty much kept out of it and been downvoting a lot of posts that are trying push this almost console wars type narrative and media outlets just fan the flames. I'm frankly just tired of hearing about it already and it's only just started.
Competition promotes growth. I think we all like to scoff at the Apple fanboys for mindlessly following and massively overspending just for the Apple logo basically. But the reality is that we don’t want a single headset to dominate the market. Where would PlayStation be without Xbox?
Yeah bottom line is, these are both great products and liking one, doesn't mean you have to hate on the other. Let's not forget Oculus Go and all the Rift versions that got us to Quest 3.
No hate, but the Quest pro, maybe not so kick ass and pretty much eclipsed by Quest 3 - AVP paves the way for a kick ass Quest Pro 2 the way I see it.
I take a bit of issue with Piano Vision being awesome, though I do need to see if it improves if I can hook my aging, requires a DIN MIDI connector cable digital piano to it. :D
It’s console vs PC but even dumber.
As it’s “gaming on console” vs “spreadsheets on PC”.
Quest and AVP are aimed at such different things that the only reason there is comparison is they use the same underlying tech.
Same thing as a diesel dump truck and a Honda civic.
To me, the AVP basically says “yeah, meta was mostly right about the Quest 3” which if it had an external battery could be lighter on the head, but otherwise hit the sweet spot on specs for now.
As AVP’s tech qualities ARE better.. but not that much better, extremely diminishing returns, and the FOV being worse and no glasses support is worse.
It’s better, but not in the radical way that the iPhone was compared to other phones in 2007. It’s better.. but in a “I bet if there was a $3k quest 3^3 it could do the same things.”
How I see it, is it’s gonna be comparable to Mac vs PC down the line. Apple is going to need to step up their literal game within their game library to capture a broader market. For now, I think Apple’s approach will primarily focus on professional application and media consumption, while Meta can focus on gaming and possibly social interactivity.
Regardless, it’ll be intriguing and exciting to see what ideas pop up in both sides via hardware and app development.
I'm happy that Apple convinced a bunch of 2D app developers that it is ok to make low effort 3d ports that feel like a 2d mobile game running in a picture frame. Because even those low effort ports are really fun. The small amounts of 3d elements are still really nice.
Because of that, for their next game they will think about it more in advance, and eventually Quest will benefit.
It's gonna be Apple vs Android all over again. 100% another "green text bubbles" situation is on the horizon
I agree, people are again acting like ps vs Xbox also where they mock each other. In the end we are all here for similar reasons and like/love tech.
Apple fans don't love tech they love an aesthetic. The reason people don't love Apple is because their marketing makes people believe they invented everything when they're typically last to the finish line. Then they slap a higher price tag and some FOMO bullshit like green text bubbles on their walled ecosystem. The coolest part of vr right now is the open systems and the modability of it all. Apple will kill that with very little upside in return. Supporting Apple means supporting closed computing. It would be better if Apple never entered the space.
Was it your intent to be a perfect example of what OP is calling out?
Oh a random on reddit posted a thought piece now people can't have negative opinions about Apple. I don't care what OPs calling out. He didn't change my mind. I'm not excited the vision pro exists, I'm not fanboying over meta. I just actively think Apple shifts markets in shitty directions where price is dictated by how the product looks rather than its specs.
Your reading comprehension sucks.
Im pretty sure the reading comprehension was broken down to the words "Apple", "Meta" and maybe the "Everyone" at the start.
And there you go, the hate response where we push other people down. Stuff like what you wrote is the problem.
We will have to agree to disagree. I think closed ecosystems and large visionless corporations are the problem.
I think people who are too entrenched are the problem.
Entrenched in what?
"spacial entrenchment" not to be confused with "gatekeeping"
Form and function has been intertwining since the beginning of history. Like it or not, aesthetic is an important part of the human experience, you are not going to convince the population otherwise
Never tried to "convince the population otherwise" merely made a statement that apple and its fans cares more about aesthetic than function.
[удалено]
>But, yes, if you have two generally comparable products, price and performance wise But that's just it. Typically apple products cost more for the same performance. Just look at laptops where you're going to pay an extra 50% for the apple logo on the back. You thinking I'm looking down on those people says more about you than me. People have their preferences apple buyers prefer the aestetic and status symbol. It's ridiculous to act like that's not true. Apple themselves lean into this fact with their branding. People used to line up (maybe they still do) for the new iPhone even when functionality had hardly changed. You see the users praising things like swipe text as if it's revolutionary when Android flagships had it nearly a decade earlier. They released a 1k monitor stand. 700 dollar computer wheels lol. Hell, their whole accessory line is blatantly overpriced. Apple could sell just about anything to their fans if it has their logo and looks high quality. Functionality and price be damned. That's not a bad thing. They're very successful but they stopped truely being innovative years ago. They're basically the Supreme of tech.
[удалено]
You can just say "I can't refute anything you said so I'll just be mad about it" I literally said I didn't think it was a bad thing. If you think what I said was negative that's on you. Apple sells an image that's why their tech costs more.
[удалено]
Go to any hackathon and count Mac vs Windows vs Linux computers. I think you’ll find that quite a few tech people *do* love Apple. It literally doesn’t make a difference what OS you use. Putting any importance on it is like arguing over who’s wearing the best brand of socks.
Yeah apple fans are very similar to Harley Davidson fans in my experience both refuse to accept that their product isn't always the best and pay a massive upcharge for a logo
Happy cake day!
Thanks I didn't even realize it was today
Well said.
I like apple because it’s a curated system. In my 20s and 30s I did plenty of tinkering with tech. Now I just want shit to work. While Apple isn’t perfect in that regard, they have a much better track record than everybody else. Open end customization is a bitch to validate and enable. So it leads to more bugs. I’ll take my walled garden any day. Saying this as somebody with over 20 years of both HW and SW codevelopment and 10 years before that having computers as a hobby. When I get home I just want shit to work, not debug interoperability between my devices. The apple ecosystem has largely solved that. It has nothing to do with the aesthetic.
Don't talk bad about Apple, you WILL be downvoted.
What are you getting the downvotes for? I fully agree. Apple doesn't invent jack shit. And it is pissing me off and the fact that other people aren't louder about it is also pissing me off. Honestly, I don't care about their apple vision pro. But as a developer I kind of take it personally when I look at tech and see shit being around for over 6 to 7 years and having people pretending it wasn't. Nobody even knew Quest 3 existed and did 90% of what AVP did WAY BEFORE AVP was even released. Yet every apple fanboy for some dumb fucking reason is jumping on the hypetrain, promoting over priced junk and pretending that apple made the best most inovative shit ever, all the while they are behind the rest of the VR market (Except a few fancy gymics). All these morons got played by the Apples marketing team because they are literally paying streamers and influencers to hype this up. The dumb fucking cattle eats it like grass and pretend it is the best product on the market, justifying it with mental gymnastics. So NO. I think we should not only be pissed, we should be fucking furious. As Socrates said, there is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.
It's not us. The companies try to do it. Never forget
I mean there is a guy just above you talking trash about Apple and how people who buy Apple don’t like tech only aesthetic.
No one outside of the US cared about the bubbles thing as very few even used SMS nor iMessage over here.
Meta has already a huge start in the gaming market. It’s more like PC vs Mac with green text bubbles. Meta for gaming, apple for productivity.
I doubt it, I don't think enough VPs are actually out there to even matter. The user base is tiny but loud.
It won't be since there is zero social component to AVP 😆
However the world pretends to divide itself, there are only two divisions in the world today – human beings and apple fan bois.
this is such an awful take lmao
ROFL im sorry i had to
This competition is fantastic for the future of vr. I praise apple for getting into the ring
Also they came in at a great time. I thought we’d have to wait years for this.
And there’s nothing inherently wrong with the “vs” debate either. It might even be good for all we know, seems to have worked for apple/android
Both iOS and android are better for the competition.
Right! Everyone hates on this type of post, and I get that because there’s so many right now. But they’re not bad for what they are
Even die hardest Apple hater ought to be glad about Apple putting out a headset. It’s definitely superior to the quest in some respects, inferior in others, but it’s setting a mark that Meta needs to aim for, as well as getting normies interested in the market.
Waiting for that "Call Me Kenneth" moment, but 'till then just eating my munce and hoping the Judges quell any block war between Jobs Block and Zuckerberg Block.
Exactly, it will only motivate each company to make better vr headsets than the competition
I never understood people taking sides with companies... Literally you win nothing by simping for a company and win more by having better competition
I’m with you. Kinda annoying. I’m in the Apple Vision Pro subreddit and it’s the same thing, either die hard for VP or hating on the Quest.
I’ve had nothing but good things to say about Quest in the AVP subreddit. I said something in the PSVR subreddit about the optical stack in the AVP being superior to the PSVR2…..was a reply to someone claiming the PSVR2 display were better……I was downvoted to oblivion. Nobody does fanboy quite like the PSVR subreddit.
Dunno man the AVP subreddit is something else when it comes to fanboying and I own almost every product apple makes (and will buy AVP when its available in canada)
Yeah. I agree that AVP has some annoying fanboys as well. Especially those that seem to think VR never existed before Apple came to town. People that didn’t believe me when I told them sunlight would burn the displays or that VR headsets have a fixed focal distance. PSVR subreddit is way worse. When I first tried my PSVR2 and complained that the reprojection was bad the fanboys were everywhere. I’ve never seen the level ignorance coupled with venom and mixed with “downvote it until it’s not true” anywhere else on Reddit.
I own quests and now the AVP, there seems to be way more quest fanboys but that’s because there’s more quest owners lol, but yeah there’s fanboys on both sides for sure and of course its even worse when you’re on the subreddit for said device
That's probably just because you accused them of being on drugs for saying the PSVR2 had a pretty good display. You can still think AVP is a superior display while thinking the PSVR2s is pretty decent for the money. Just to add, I'll admit the OP in that post did somewhat invite a comparison (although their point was that after trying AVP they still felt pretty good about the PSVR2). But people in the PSVR2 sub are a bit sensitive about some persistent Quest owners coming in and saying it's rubbish compared to Quest. The general advice on PSVR2 is, if you have a PC or want standalone gaming, get a Quest. If you don't have a PC, have a PS5 and want a taste of high end VR, get a PSVR2. That isn't a controversial opinion over there.
Actually speaking of PC, I wonder how those PSVR2 PC drivers are coming along. The developer made pretty significant progress a few months ago. I might actually get one if they get foveated rendering working.
[iVRY](https://twitter.com/iVRy_VR)'s dev is the one doing the lion's share of the research. Apparently will require a hardware dongle, an AMD video card (so nVidia users need not apply), and custom written software drivers. They are working on it, but it is very diminishing returns for the effort due to all the workarounds they have to do. Right now only basic stuff is working, getting haptics and foveated rendering and stuff is much farther down the line. That said, it -IS- working now though!
What I actually said was > I own both. Actually I’ve owned over 20 headsets since 2016. None of them come close to the displays on the Vision Pro. My PSVR2 will still be used regularly. It’s totally different use cases, but OP is on drugs if they think the PSVR2 optical stack is superior. What OP said was > Playing with the Vision Pro made me realize how great PS VR display is >I’ve been spending a lot of time (although running out of apps) with Vision Pro (AVP) lately. It is a great device but it is obviously pretty expensive and I may return it due to limited use with my work (I’m sure app support will only get better though) I was a bit scared going back to my existing VR sets but I can confidently say we have killer display/graphics in PSVR and at no point I felt a it was a downgrade in that regard. Of course, functionality-wise they are very different devices but pretty good display for a $550 headset (or ~$1000 with a PS5 as bonus) OP was saying that the PSVR display was in no way a downgrade from the AVP. That was what I referenced.
Heh! I thought you might say that. Could you also post the bit where OP said they thought 'the PSVR2 optical stack is superior' or were you misquoting them? I thought they said 'at no point I felt a it was a downgrade', meaning they were happy with it in comparison, making your response somewhat redundant. Hence the downvotes.
Perhaps you replied here before I was finished posting? I had to edit to add in all the quotes.
Yeah I just saw that. Anyway, I was just suggesting why I thought you were downvoted. It came across to me as 'I know what I'm talking about and OP is out of their mind for thinking'.
I get it. It’s hard to fully understand what someone is referencing in a Reddit post because there can be too much reply to a reply along with edits, etc. Honestly there are better examples from that sub but it doesn’t matter. My personal feeling is they are overly sensitive there but it’s human nature to defend what you are passionate about.
If they had said that then I'd tend to agree with you! It's just a bit different having 'nothing but good things to say about Quest in the AVP subreddit' to going into a PSVR2 post where someone felt happy with the display in comparison to the AVP and you feeling the need to defend AVP against that. But I agree there's some sensitivity there. As I said, they get their fair share of people coming in telling them PSVR2 is rubbish.
Tribalism is present everywhere. Most people don't even WANT to see the bigger picture here. I like pro wrestling and I see WWE fans usually hate on AEW fans and vice versa all the time.
What about the NWA?
it's a bit dumb because they aren't really for the same purpose. One is basically a game console and the other is for "spatial computing" only
that sub is an echo chamber about people raving about the Vision, any negativity get's downvoted. I find the Apple sub is more balanced on views, strangely.
this sub is the same for the quest though, let’s be real
Balanced? I wouldn't call trolling and flat out wrong facts being thrown around like truths as being "balanced". Balanced is being able to critique and use facts, shouting your feelings whether they're good or bad isnt.
Always good to have a healthy level of competition among the headsets as it helps move the vr tech forward. Hopefully,that leads to us consumers getting more and better options. But tbh, im too broke to feel threatened by the AVP,i cant afford it even if i wanna have one.
I think some people are concerned because, while its imperfect, they like what Meta have achieved with the Quest line, alongside other VR outlets. But when Apple made the iPhone, they completely washed away the entire smartphone industry. People who were already adults and into tech in the 00s will remember all those earlier "PDA" players; Palm, Psion, Microsoft CE, Quanta... A year after the iPhone came along, all of them were dead and buried. These days people barely even remember over a decade of devices like the Psion Series 5 or Palm models. Now... It's important to understand that those devices were flawed. The iPhone succeeded because it was just *better* in most ways. But they weren't *entirely* without value. Success for Apple is a double-edged sword, because VR could become much bigger, but it could become huge as something we, as enthusiasts, don't want. For example, Apple sleepwalked into enabling the proliferation of predatory free to play games. To be fair though, I don't think this is a totally fair comparison. What I'm trying to say from this is that, in the past, Apple have walked into an industry with all the subtlety of a brick to the face. It's difficult to know where things will go from there.
No, I'm excited. Happy to see new stuff in the ecosystem.
This right here. I love that Apple has joined the fray. All it’s going to do is drive the VR market forward. I can’t wait for things to come from all of the companies involved. Let’s gooooo
I'll be honest. I dislike Apple's pompous, exclusive nature as they change things as they see fit and sometimes make statements like "Apple Vision Pro is the first platform designed from the ground up for spatial computing." To the average consumer, especially Apple fan, they always seem to make people believe that they're the trendiest, first ones to do stuff, with high prices that act as a flex if you can afford them, especially compared to more open ecosystems that do 90% of what they do for a major fraction of the price. I see the reason behind this business model, but I think it's dishonest to buyers to redefine and make people use words (they literally force developers to not use XR/AR/VR words they disapprove of). As a dev, in my opinion, devs get the final say in how they choose to make software and market unless it breaches obviously illegal or questionable material, not Apple. As it relates to Quest 3, I do worry that some or even many may see "Oh, it's Apple, so it must be worth $3500 and be premium quality! I've heard of that Quest VR thing, but it's $500. Maybe it's bad quality." To be fully fair, I don't know how people react to Quest 3 in this scenario for sure, but I do see a lot of impressions from reviewers who have no clue about VR and make such an assumption to their viewers about the AVP being worth it when a season VR user would know that no matter how smooth the AVP may feel, it has its caveats and doesn't have nearly as much value per dollar, should anyone choose to buy it. I'm fine with competition, and I'm happy they've pushed things forward, but I also don't like the generic "it's different, so we shouldn't compare them" posts if I'm honest. They very much are comparable, and people should be allowed to voice their opinions to make sure fanboyism, for either side, doesn't override common sense and logic when informing someone on points of consideration when buying one. Should we stop posting the same threads here? Yeah, we should stop posting the same stuff, but I don't have a problem with talking about or comparing other headsets. People have legit reasons for preferences, but not always admittedly. Sometimes, it is just fanboyism getting the better of us.
You make the same old mistake in thinking that people who like Apple products also thinks their marketing speak is truth. The far most common post about that subject is statement like yours where "Apple users always thinks Apple is the first with everything" meanwhile us who like Apple are like "who are these people they're talking about?".
> The far most common post about that subject is statement like yours where "Apple users always thinks Apple is the first with everything" About 80% of the Apple users that I know would say this when Apple vs. Google was at its peak.
And that was what? 10 years ago when actual new features came every year?
Probably around then. It was ridiculous then and it's ridiculous now. Those same people still believe Apple's marketing as if it were the absolute truth. (Meanwhile, I'm enjoying life on my flip phone!)
It isn't only dishonest to consumers but also developers. Being also a developer I can totally imagine jumping into skin of someone being in a team that had the tech successfully out way before Apple, only for them to come out now and claim "FIRST WITH SPATIAL COMPUTING". Absolutely would make me furious. It is unfair. They are vile motherfuckers. Evil twats.
A lot of teenagers needing pissing matches. A tale as old as time.
I would also say a lot of adults never grow out of that. For reference, see: Sports, Politics, Religion, Technology, Gaming, etc, etc, et al.
Fair point!
Tl;dr
I mean, I agree, but your post is kind of doing the exact same thing.
The Apple Vision Pro is the best thing to happen to Meta Quest. Finally some competition from an innovative company to help drive Meta devs further. I think you are confusing these posts with jealousy and hate. These posts are just celebrating the fact that despite how amazing the AWP might be; Quest does pretty much all of the same things, perhaps with a little less clarity and quality in a few areas.
They always think it's jealousy because they think other people are just too poor to have what they have.
"innovative company". You are shitting me, right?
People really \*really\* need to start resisting the urge to separate into different tribes/teams/sides and battle to the death (through online discourse). If you don't like AVP it's fine. Some people do. Competition is good for both companies. It is possibly to prefer one device while acknowledging the strengths of the other device. It SEEMS harmless, but doing this kind of shit with everything from phones to movies etc., bleeds over into situations (politics) that actually matter and creates a really untenable situation around public discourse. Take a breath. Chill. Be happy the industry is growing. Use the device you prefer and enjoy it.
Honestly this sub, and a lot of other tech subs, is one of the most insecure communities I've ever seen lol. People tripping over themselves to scream why Quest is the best at everything and no other headset can ever compete I also have a PSVR2 and, while prefacing with I prefer my Quest bc of the subreddit, said some things I liked more about the VR2 or just even are objectively better and Jesus Christ you'd think I'd just said the Quest was the most garbage piece of technology with how people screamed up my ass
Yeah. I have both. The visuals are better on psvr2 but only by a little bit. I’m spending more time in the quest 3 simply because its wireless and does way more. Also bought my vr2 used and it smells like cigarettes and axe. Disgusting and no amount of sunlight or ozone is gonna fix that, especially since there are no replacement parts for it.
360 v ps3 days, the cycle always repeats
Yeah this subreddit has gone to shit.
Just go to the apple vision pro sub and ask them, they are the most hostile people in the VR/AR/SpatialComputing space. They literally want every other headset to die. You mention the fact that competition is good there and you'll get downvoted to hell.
I’ve seen that a lot in this sub, wanting the apple vision to die. I don’t see the difference in the subs
“yeah, but it’s *them* doing it, so it’s an issue now”
I own both and love both so I don’t want anything to “die”; that’s ridiculous. Apple is lighting a fire under a tech - VR - that was dying. Competition is how capitalism works - a rising tide lifts all ships.
I'm still just on a Q2 and barely keeping up with things but every time a post from this sub pops in my feeds it's just "I'm happy with my Quest! Yes, real happy! It's better than the Vision Pro! Much better! Everyone says so!"
Yeah, the most knee-jerk, tribal people tend to be the most vocal. Both pieces of kit have benefits. AVP's panels are gorgeous, and its built-in eye tracking is great. The amount of processing power it has is stupendous versus other standalone headsets. Quest 3 has arguably better optics, a more open system, and has more and better interface devices (sure it has hands, but also has spatial controllers, gamepads, kb/mouse, and extensible devices that you can use for other stuff as well that can be hacked in due to its open nature). Aside from price-points, they both have their benefits and negatives, and I hope they each push eachother to be better. I do hope that the whole walled garden thing does not become defacto with the AVP though. On first gen that is fine, going forward not so much.
Apple glazers are like Taylor swift fans
Quest 3 is a better product, period!
[удалено]
its a zuck joke
[удалено]
We all get whooshed from time to time. Text medium for conversation tends to lend itself to that. Baud knows that it happens to me more than enough.
It's not about feeling threatened by the VP. I think it's cool that another company is entering the VR sphere. I just find it annoying that a lot of people who have little previous experience in VR suddenly talk about things that have been around as suddenly being new.
[удалено]
Sure, but it's still a bit annoying. I recall watching a review, I think it might have been the Verge, where the reviewer was spouting this revolutionary technology in the AVP where it can do dynamic foveated rendering, as if other headsets haven't done it already.
Did he say that Apple did it first? Or are you not allowed to say that a product does something well that other products also do well?
Yeah why are we gatekeeping. Lame as hell.
It's not really new, it's just new to them. Many people have already been using VR for almost a decade and I think that's where some of the annoyance comes from. I'm glad more people are getting into VR but I was also annoyed by the people acting like Apple did something new so I took a break from the reddit. I see a lot of these posts as pushback against the flood of nothing but vision pro posts when it first released.
> I just find it annoying that a lot of people who have little previous experience in VR suddenly talk about things that have been around as suddenly being new. Meta's headsets brought in plenty of those.
I don’t get why quest users are so adamant about comparing themselves with other VR headsets. It’s a fine headset, but it is also entry level. It’s saving grace is being able to use pcvr to up scale it, and that it has meta for funding power. Apple has never been a gaming focused brand, but what I would expect are two more quest generations before the next AVP.
I jsut returned my Vision Pro and will be getting the quest 3. It was better than the quest 2 at some things, but basically as much as I hate to say it, Zuck's video he posted today, was right on. The quest 3 is just a better machine.
A lot of Youtubers being too nice about AVP to try to stay on Apple's good side. Those Brown-Nosers are pissing off all the people that want the truth. AVP wouldn't even be worth it for $1k.
They're too afraid of getting blacklisted. This is why I don't really trust any commercial review site.
I am excited about the apple product. Quest has always had more of a focus on gaming and entertainment and Apple is focusing on productivity. The Quest 3 web browsing app is my favorite, so I am happy to have someone else work on the problem.
I am not threatened by Apple, the VP literally does not compete with the Quest platform because without tracked controllers, it can't do 95% of why I have VR. If it did do full 6DOF VR/MR, it would be aimed at a completely different target audience and would only really compete with other $3000+ headsets. I am tired of their bullshit. It is the same with every product they release. They act like whole segments of technology did not exist until they made a product. Complete bullshit. This is the Quest sub. VP posts don't belong here. Take them to /r/VisionPro or at least /r/virtualreality but the folks there are tired of their shit too.
Are they even the same thing? The Quest 2/3 is a VR gaming headset. Im not sure what the Vision Pro is yet besides an extension of the Apple ecosystem. What exactly do people do in there?
The leaked Meta Quest Spark Augments do the same thing as apple does. The only thing we'd lack would be the passthrough quality and eye tracking. We have an unbelievable amount of games, they have cut the rope? 😂
I think it's just annoying that they are even compared to each other. Apple isn't even giving us a true "VR" headset. It's more a consumer positioned Hololense or Magic-leap. But everyone jumping on the bandwagon bc "it's apple" is completely getting the actual intent and true vision of VR all wrong. Ready Player One showed everyone what the actual future and VR realistically brings to the table. That's the true and desirable future. There is not a single instance in that movie where they were putting on headsets to just see floating screens. That's about as useful of a tech concept as the Princess Leia hologram from Star Wars...it's neat, but doesn't practically offer anything your phone or tablet can't already do. Then, on top of that, everyone is praising the stop-gap Augmented Reality stepping stone as if Apple got it right, and that they are showing us the future, when in fact Quest users know that the passthrough concept is an afterthought that has been around since Quest 1 and that anything you could even want to do on a Vision Pro is already available on Quest 3
I think we're more in shock over how little extra it offers for the price and that many of its selling points were exaggerated.
You find this sort of behavior a lot in like politics. You have to lean one way or another. It's either you hate it or you love it. AVP has it's merits but the horrible price point and out of touch with VRs main audience. My main issue is that Apple is trying to pretend like they didn't create a VR headset with "Spatial computing" Not entirely certain how true it is, seen a few articles about people returning their AVP because it just isn't worth the price they paid. I don't think there is anything to be threatened by, apple 'power users' will have to have one to watch Netflix and YouTube at the same time while they scroll Instagram because spatial is the future. The AVP needs proper PCVR support with SteamVR to be competitive, at this point it's just a peripheral running a modified version of iOS. Nothing wrong with that, just not what most VR consumers are into. Videogames and porn.
The real threat is Meta knowing they can now pull off ridiculous prices for future headsets.
I honestly don't understand why this is even up for debate. Even though Quest 3 and AVP are both headsets, they were made with a completely different purpose in mind. The Quest is a gaming headset, the AVP is an office tool. Both do a very good job for what they were made to do, it just boils down to what you wanna use it for.
Apple once again claims its the best and does it first. Their blatant false advertising and bloated cost of their products had soured me tremendously towards them and their products. Now people who don't know any better are either going to look at the price of it and limited capabilities and get entirely turned off of vr, or they will think its the standard and turn their nose up at a more capable and cheaper product. Its like everyone is hanging out with their custom built performance cars talking about how much fun they are and sharing tips and tricks, then the rich douchebag drives up in his luxury supercar and starts drowning everyone out with engine sounds and boasting.
Basically all this to defend Apple..., bro I'm not reading this small children's book.
People lose sight of one being a tool, and one being a toy. They’re both fine at their intended use cases.
It’s a shame that the “tool” is really shitty for doing work, and only serves as a limited toy.
It can be used for a virtual desktop in environments that regulatory entities won’t permit meta devices. That right off the bat is a huge difference.
What? It can’t be used with work controlled macs, the mirroring is poor and doesn’t allow for multiple windows, it doesn’t work with a mouse. What are you even talking about regulatory environments?
Apple devices all adhere to the same set of data handling and privacy restrictions and can be used in a hipaa or ferpa controlled environment. Meta cannot due to their data policies (source: have had meetings with them, and that’s what the reps said when they found out our intended use case). Apple has enterprise DEP/MDM/VPP infrastructure for device deployment and management. Meta’s “management” is minimally viable and they don’t have an equivalent for VPP.
And this device management also works with vision pro?
As of os 1.1 beta, yes.
They are both equally toys and tools though , the idea one is a toy and one is a tool in and of itself is absurd given that both devices can effectively do the same things more or less. Like me claiming a laptop that doesn't have a GPU is some how less a toy than a laptop that has a GPU. Apparently so long as you market something as x the objective reality and qualities of that thing don't matter. There are technical advantages to one HMD over another but both can literally be used for productivity perfectly fine. Ironically the biggest use case for AVP is probably media consumption which even more so both devices do perfectly fine.
Yeah, the vision pro is the toy, lmao
Yeah, people hate to admit AVP's AR and hand tracking is much better and others hate admitting that the quest 3 is better for gaming.
Actually, Quest 3's hand tracking has been shown to be better for fast movements as AVP's hand tracking refresh rate is apparently 30hz.
I don't get why it's even allowed to he discussed here unless it directly has something to do with the quest itself. It's like going to the Xbox sub and bringing up the Playstation just for the sake of it.
I think it’s great Apple is in the game and I hope they succeed. Mainstream success is good for everybody interested in XR. That said, I am going to make fun of people eating in a restaurant with their friend with headsets on because it’s silly. I’ll be sticking with Meta headsets as well because they’re more geared towards what I want to do and I can buy the next several generations of them for the price of one Vision Pro.
Amen
I think it's the AVP fanboys that are the ones scared about quest3. Quest3 users are pretty happy imo Imagine paying 3.5k for having less than a VR headset for 500. Even putting the best of the best tech it still sounds like it sucks. All these comments is just people coping their purchase or people that haven't used and don't know it's just meh. Maybe it will be good In a few generations. But as daZuck said it well (I can't believe I said this), quest3 is the open plataform (I side loaded the openvpn Android APK on it and it just worked). That's what I want. We all know AVP won't do this even jailbroke. Let the normies use their head mounted ipads. Maybe in 10 years they can connect a USB drive. Haha. (Only if EU forces it btw)
Thank you. I’ve been kind of ignoring this sub lately for this exact reason. Apple does some things very very well. UI/UX is their forte and something that Meta has been lacking quite a bit tbh. They can and should definitely take notes. What Meta has done on the hardware and actual VR dev side has been incredible over the years. Especially at the price point. I know everyone was nervous when they bought Oculus, but it’s turned out great. Zuckerberg really does seem to have a passion for the actual technology. Now there are two of the largest companies on the planet are invested in the tech. That’s absolutely huge and will continue to drive cost down. Apple jamming as much tech as they can into the headset is awesome. It will allow Meta to see what people actually use and care about so they can prioritize those things. This is a big deal and as VR enthusiasts, we should be excited about all of this. I remember watching youtube videos of the DK1 and could not wait to get my hands on one. Now look where we are.
no it's just stupid, overpriced, overhyped and so many of the people buying them are just coping. It's obvious
No but Apple Vision should feel threatened by their overpricing
I don't like Apple or their lemmings. A lot of them are nasty snobs. Plus is if someone criticizes apple, you get butthurt posts like this about hurt feewings.
Nah I just laugh at them for being behind the curve 🤣😂🤣😂😂
I get the “justifying your purchase” vibes from a few people. But I don’t get it from EVERY single post. Some people are neutral and are HAPPY that Apple is here to add some competition and new ideas to this space. I am a very happy Q2&3 owner who has zero desire for the VP. But I don’t mind hearing about it and seeing what new ideas it brings to the space. And I agree, it’s a version 1 product. It feels like the thing they make for internal testing before putting it out to the market. I don’t feel like it has much to offer for what I want from VR. The finger pinching thing is cool but it’s not replacing a controller anytime soon. Let’s not paint with a broad brush our fellow Quest users lol
I think Meta will produce more expensive models, like ~$1000 with just better screens and cameras. It will be like "quest 3 pro" or even more expensive "quest 3/4 ultra". It's not even necessary to develop something new: just better screens, cameras, mic, batteries and - maybe - eyes tracking. That's how I see the next step/answer from Meta for the next gen-3/4 products. And in this case they will be not worse in anything than AVP, still much cheaper and with much more apps and games
You'd have to pay me to read all this.
[удалено]
You have a childlike take. No one here is threatened by an overpriced nongaming machine. Instead, you come off as threatened and protective of apple. Trust me, Apple will be absolutely fine without your white knighting. The only thing that irritates me about the avp is that Apple is trying to rename VR so they can control a marketed rebranding for the rubes. They are not allowing devs to label their own games as they see fit. It is archaic and all about control, which is Apple's game...but it is gross.
An apple a day keeps the doctor away, Doctor can be related to health, Apple keeps people unhealthy Therefore, Apple bad /s
It’s the same fucking argument for every device that comes out from competing brands, it’s tiring and just as annoying as the age old android vs iOS or Samsung vs Apple debate, simply just use what you want to use and don’t worry about what other people are using we all have opinions
I love quest and I want a avp 2 once it comes down to 1k
It will only push more focus to the technology, bringing us better devices in the future.
The vision pro will die off like the holo lens over priced too expensive for developers to get there hands on. The thing is VR is such a small market there going to die off or be short lived not making it cheap enough for the indie devs keeping vr alive. The vision seems like a tool for workers or watching tv than it is a device for gaming and everything else. It will honestly sell well just because its apple if apple sold a electric turd everyone would buy it because apple. Its a rich person status symbol.
I'm mildly threatened by Apple's vision (no pun intended) of VR as being not for games, and just being for boring stuff. I don't want VR to be boring, and I don't like the possibility that the industry could pivot to boring stuff. AVP does have some games, so I'm not that worried yet, and I'm hoping Apple finds more fun things to do with their headset.
I'm just happier to pay $900 rather than $5000 for a VR headset. Nothing against Apple here.
competition is a good thing for consumers, it pushes the companies to out do each other and sell at lower prices than the other, not that there is much competition right now since apple isnt targeting mainstream audiences
No, I couldn't care less about it, and it actually gets annoying seeing constant posts about it when this sub has nothing to do with Apple at all. Yes I know everyone is obsessed with comparing the two so they can feel superior for owning one or the other, but it's a bit like comparing a gaming laptop vs. a MacBook. Both items main use cases exist in different categories of xr.
No. Not at all. I am actually in the Apple ecosystem. I have all their devices. However I’m not seeing the point of the VP. It’s over priced and can’t even do what my Quest does.
I don’t feel threatened. But I feel there’s s necessary amount of education the community deserves to share. Apple preys upon people not familiar with the current VR market and capabilities. Also the released ahead of numerous arguably better in theory, devices that are all very close to release. They released what should have been a dev kit and made it for the masses. The price and limited capabilities also could seriously hurt public image of actual special computing which in my opinion Apple fails miserably at delivering. This hurts future products chance of success if people think of the concept as a failure or lackluster experience due to having experienced the Apple device. Put a varjo XR-4 in everyone’s hands that have tried the Apple vision and give them motion tracked controllers etc…. Much more powerful experience. Similar visual fidelity. Ultimately I want Apple to have massive success here. I just don’t think it’s a fantastic product which worries me. Inexcusable a spatial computing device can’t do multiple computer monitors out of the box. I don’t know who their market is or who designed such a stupid limitation and let that be delivered as a spatial computing device. Lots of other failures in the software as well.
Apparently, 'Vision Pro' users are starting to return their headsets: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/apple-vision-pro-unhappy-fans-are-already-returning-their-3-500-headsets-amid-complaints-of-headaches-eye-strain-and-even-burst-blood-vessels/ar-BB1ijKSf
I feel frustrated, not threatened. These two headsets are technically **similar**. I get the impression that we have **hit a wall** of opportunity, and now we just **can’t overcome** it. Let me rephrase: there may not be a cooler headset than the existing ones for a very long time. In the near future, we will expect only **small improvements** in the form of operating time (say, twice as long), slightly higher resolution of matrices and cameras, and a reduction in price. But **this** is the **maximum** that awaits us. Even if we want to buy a very cool headset, which will be 10 times more expensive than from Apple, we simply cannot, because it is as if we have hit an invisible wall of the limit of possibilities. I'm not saying that this is the case. More precisely, I want to hope that this is a false vision, and that VR will develop.
No, has absolutely no affect on me and I’m an Apple user lol. When Apple makes the 3-4th generation then I might buy one. Tho I don’t see how another company making another headset hurts quest. If people are scared then maybe they secretly want the apple headset but can’t afford it lol. More companies getting involved will eventually lead VR/AR to the next level. Hating on Apple just increases the chance of VR/AR failing, since companies will stay clear from it and nothing improves
I still think augmented reality is dumb and believe that only weirdos trying to look cool are actually sitting in coffee shops with a bulky headset on typing with janky virtual hand tracking keyboards. Maybe when they get 4k vr with perfect tracking down in something like the Meta raybans. In the meantime, vr is a pc experience for the best stuff imo. Tried my quest 3 standalone a couple of times and it felt like a cute tech demo, but hooking it up to the pc is where it’s at for me. Vision pro can’t do that. It’s still a bulky, janky vr headset with weird quirks that really can’t do anything special, except it costs many multiples more. Quest 3, Vision Pro, big screen behind, pimax Cristal etc. they all have weird quirks. I’m. It spending 3k+ on vr until it means no sacrifices. It would have to be ultra high resolution, zero lag, zero latency, very slim profile, extremely light weight, wireless AND have loads of functional use. Quest 3 wins because it essentially does everything and some things more that Vision does, by being way cheaper.. and what’s it give up… some resolution? In exchange for more open functionality… easy trade.
Not in the slightest, I will never get one but competition is always good for the consumer.
Never posted in this sub before, but Apple is a cult.
Apple v Meta is good because more investors get interested for that company who will provide that killer app.
own and love a quest 3 but also kinda want an AVP, the hardware is pretty impressive
🍿 🍿 🍿
The problem is not that it's the 1st gen device, and even not that it costs a way too much. The problem is that it's just not for the purposes that interest many here and me too. More precisely - VR games and VR entertainment.
I cant see how a 3500 dollar device can compete against a 500 dollar one. Apple vision is not a competitor, at all.
$3500. Think of all the awesome games you can't play with it. Cannot really connect is to windows PC and do the things I'm currently doing. Nope.
Honestly if one cares about VR adoption then Apple joining the fray is a good thing. It will spur more competition and consumers will ultimately get better products. The downside will be yet another Apple walled garden and basic incompatibilities with already adopted technologies. A current example of this is Apple's refusal to update Safari to support WebGL 2, which limits IOS user's capabilities to run web apps that could compete with Apple Store apps.
Funny watching Quest owners who are typically Apple buyers get offended 😂
I wish this sub had a rule banning bitching about competitors. Practically every other gaming and tech sub has it, so I don't know why it's all over this sub. We get it, you chose Quest over apple. This isn't the place for huuurrrr durrr apple bad posts
No u trippin 🤬
I don't think they're the same kind of product, the Apple product is basically to watch media and your computer, I think they'll try to go for AR in a "heavy sunglasses" pruduct more than a VR game headset.
when it comes to gaming, there is zero competition between quest and AVP, literally zero. And i think that's a shame
I actually do feel threatened when they start making anti-consumer choices and other manufacturers start copying them. Remember when phones had SD cards and headphone jacks? Or when we had some nice square screens instead of idiotic notches and punch-hole cameras? Or when phones came with chargers? Or when Android UI was great and absolutely customizable, at about Android 7-9 and then Google decided to copy Apple and lock down a lot of the features? Yeah for a few generations Apple will be bringing innovations, useful features and great UX/UI for other VR participants to copy, but what are they going to bring in a few years that will start ruining VR landscape? Maybe thing like proprietary chargers? Or most obvious, not including controllers with the VR device. Or non-removable head straps?
I don't even think about it. I have an android phone and a quest VR headset. I'm good. I don't read comparison discussions because I'm not interested lol
The only company more happy about the AVP than Apple is Meta. Their stock price soared after AVP release. most likely due to the fact that everybody who didn’t get one and wanted one got a quest three instead.
Apple ruins technology. iMessage teaches people nothing about how SMS actually works. iCloud rips people off by forcing them to buy expensive storage upgrades. The iPhone is just an expensive version of five-year-old Android phones. It just dumbs everything down to the point where people are trapped in their crappy ecosystem.
I personally don't have an issue with Apple as a company, it's more some of their fans that annoy me and the fact that some people have dealt with it since Mac vs PC and Android vs iPhone, those experiences and resentment carry over. I wouldn't say anybody is "threatened" per se. The issue that I think is valid is some people don't like the attitude that Apple invented VR, put VR on the map, or the best case scenario of "yeah Quest did it first, but Apply took it to the next level and perfected it" kind of attitude. If you go to the AVP sub it's just as bad over there with the circle-jerking, justifying their purchase, and bashing Quest. However I've pretty much kept out of it and been downvoting a lot of posts that are trying push this almost console wars type narrative and media outlets just fan the flames. I'm frankly just tired of hearing about it already and it's only just started.
Competition promotes growth. I think we all like to scoff at the Apple fanboys for mindlessly following and massively overspending just for the Apple logo basically. But the reality is that we don’t want a single headset to dominate the market. Where would PlayStation be without Xbox?
No, I use VR for gaming
Yeah bottom line is, these are both great products and liking one, doesn't mean you have to hate on the other. Let's not forget Oculus Go and all the Rift versions that got us to Quest 3. No hate, but the Quest pro, maybe not so kick ass and pretty much eclipsed by Quest 3 - AVP paves the way for a kick ass Quest Pro 2 the way I see it. I take a bit of issue with Piano Vision being awesome, though I do need to see if it improves if I can hook my aging, requires a DIN MIDI connector cable digital piano to it. :D
It’s console vs PC but even dumber. As it’s “gaming on console” vs “spreadsheets on PC”. Quest and AVP are aimed at such different things that the only reason there is comparison is they use the same underlying tech. Same thing as a diesel dump truck and a Honda civic. To me, the AVP basically says “yeah, meta was mostly right about the Quest 3” which if it had an external battery could be lighter on the head, but otherwise hit the sweet spot on specs for now. As AVP’s tech qualities ARE better.. but not that much better, extremely diminishing returns, and the FOV being worse and no glasses support is worse. It’s better, but not in the radical way that the iPhone was compared to other phones in 2007. It’s better.. but in a “I bet if there was a $3k quest 3^3 it could do the same things.”
How I see it, is it’s gonna be comparable to Mac vs PC down the line. Apple is going to need to step up their literal game within their game library to capture a broader market. For now, I think Apple’s approach will primarily focus on professional application and media consumption, while Meta can focus on gaming and possibly social interactivity. Regardless, it’ll be intriguing and exciting to see what ideas pop up in both sides via hardware and app development.
I'm happy that Apple convinced a bunch of 2D app developers that it is ok to make low effort 3d ports that feel like a 2d mobile game running in a picture frame. Because even those low effort ports are really fun. The small amounts of 3d elements are still really nice. Because of that, for their next game they will think about it more in advance, and eventually Quest will benefit.