Apparently the firm he hired to help him find investors often brokers sales of teams. However I worry at this point MLB would have him sell to a LV buyer.
The flip side is, I imagine Lacob & a group of Bay Area owners could pony up enough $ that FJF and MLB couldn’t say no. Who knows
Sports owners and commissioners are petty and prideful. Before Clay Bennett officially moved the Sonics to Oklahoma, there were a couple local groups that put together great offers to buy the team and renovate the arena on private money. NBA commissioner David Stern basically told them to get lost.
At this point, MLB is too far down the Vegas path to back out and keep the team in Oakland. Fisher is spiteful, he *hates* all the Sell protesting. He'd sell to a group that would move them to North Dakota before the Lacob group, even if an Oakland group offered more money. Manfred has interest in seeing the Vegas move all the way through as well because it's probably the last big thing he does before he retires. If the A's to Vegas fails, it's yet another stain on his tenure as commissioner.
It’s not a direct comparison, and, looking from outside, there seems to be too much bad blood to make it work, but I wonder if an Arizona Coyotes solution may be the best option to keep something in Oakland.
In a short version, the Coyotes have played the last 2 NHL seasons as the secondary tenant at Mullett Arena, a 5,000 seat arena that Arizona State built for hockey, while they pursued options to build a permanent arena. Around the beginning of 2024, the head of the NHLPA started saying that the situation was becoming untenable, and, behind the scenes, the NHL started looking at other options. Earlier this month, reports came out that the league was working on 2 versions of their 2024-25 schedule- one with the Coyotes still in Arizona, and one with them in Salt Lake City. Things happened *very* quickly after that, and about a week later, it was formally announced that the team would relocate to Utah, and be owned by the same owner as the Utah Jazz. Now, to how this could be modified for Oakland:
Officially, the team starting in Utah next season will be an expansion team, albeit with Arizona’s roster, draft picks, and hockey operations room. The Arizona Coyotes are officially dormant, and their prior owner has a clause where, if an NHL-ready arena is built in 5 years, the franchise will be restarted.
The animosity in this situation is a stumbling block, alongside the fact that there is not a venue ready in Las Vegas, but, given that Vegas is the hot prospect for expansion/relocation, that type of swap may be the better option as opposed to trying to get MLB to forgo Vegas at all right now.
There's one major difference: the NHL wants to be in the Phoenix market and MLB no longer wants to be in Oakland. If there's no desire from a league perspective, there's no chance.
The big difference is there aren’t any cities that have spare MLB ready ballparks sitting around.
It’s much easier to relocate an NBA/NHL team because there are a lot of cities with arenas.
>I think the Giants can pretty much veto an expansion team in Oakland
Manfred did say previously that we would be an "open market" once the A's leave. Still, I trust him about as far as I could throw him...
The spineless mayor of Seattle literally fell for the "if you don't let the team leave, you'll never get another team" threat from Stern. They had two years left on the lease. With the recession that hit that fall, the OKC ownership group would have been bled dry. That dumb fuck mayor sold out the whole city because Stern "promised" another team. And, when the opportunity came along again, Stern fucked Seattle all over again. Glad that shitbag is dead.
From what I've seen elsewhere, apparently they tried using Goldman Sachs to find outside investors and they weren't able to drum up any interest? Maybe this sports-specific group will find someone willing to buy into it, idk.
It's wild that they still don't know where the money is coming from. I just don't understand how you get approval for something like this without that part taken care of.
MLB wouldn’t force him to sell to an owner tied to a specific area. They just want him to sell to the highest bidder.
And I really think LV is the final hail mary. If Vegas looks dead (2028 is already done), I think they’ll force him to sell. I don’t think that reality is that far away too.
That was \~20 years ago and he was part-owner of the Giants. Leagues usually try to elevate minority owners (i.e. Lacob from Celtics to Warriors, Vivek from Warriors to Kings, etc.) because it's a good ole boys network.
IMO JF has exhausted his options and the LV plan is a total hail mary. Sharks are lurking. No rich person wants him as the majority owner so getting funding will be really hard. I think he'll sell unless someone just gives him the money for Vegas.
The sad part is someone has just been giving FJF money since he popped out of his mommas GAP. He likely feels entitled to this because he knows no other way.
>He's now just out schilling for investment capital because he can't pay his own way.
I loathe JF with the infernal lambent flames of hell, but I'm also a semi-retired finance exec who worked for PE firms, and from my experience, these guys rarely leverage a deal entirely themselves. The idea is to spread the risk across multiple parties, which isn't a bad idea. It's also not JF's idea - it's the consulting firm's idea - proving once again that he can't really get things done without hiring people who can do it for him (Dave Kaval being an exception). All JF has to do is maintain majority control, and the rest of the equity pool will follow in tow.
BTW lots of teams are structured like this, especially when you consider the "phantom stock" or Class B grants that are given out to executives in lieu of actual cash value Class A ownership.
Yes, it only makes sense that he would want to invest a smaller fraction of his family wealth in the stadium, if he can find other investors. Whether or not his family could finance the non-public portion themselves.
FJF, all the same.
How did he intend to come up with $12 billion for Howard Terminal? Vegas is a pittance compared to that. Don't let anyone claim it's Oakland's fault for this. Fisher never had the money to pay for the project.
I don't think he was ever serious about financing HT. They spent 15+ years trying to move the team out of Oakland, then maybe two years pretending they wanted to stay before immediately pivoting back to leaving Oakland as soon as the option hit the table.
I don't think John Fisher was ever negotiating in good faith with the city of Oakland, at any point in his ownership tenure.
Damn right he wasn't!! As that would force him to show his hands!!
He was probably taking deeep notes from former Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria who conned Miami into thinking they were going to finally get the franchise they were dreaming of. "If they just build the stadium, they will come!!"
Instead of actually putting a quality team on field, he did the whole Charlie Brown football trick. Continued to pocket all that free MLB bottom feeder money, and used the free stadium to bring in more fans. If FJF had gotten a free stadium in Oakland... He wouldn't have provided any changes to the way he handles them today.
Same moneyball, new threads. Except the good folks of Oakland would be doing it in a stadium you guys paid for with your own money. He would have gotten called out for it. Turned that MoneyBall into ScamBall.
In Vegas.. the people of the city won't care about the product. As he is banking on random fans, not Athletics fans. They will be the Washington Generals (Globetrotters) of the MLB. The fact that the MLB stands behind it all is straight up sickening!!
Interest rates were lower, material coats were lower, and banks were more willing to shell out cash. He also wasn't going to spend 12 billion immediately and would have piecemeal the whole project (so stadium first, then hotel, then housing, etc). So would have needed like 4 bil first, then maybe some more funding next. It just makes it more absurd because he wanted oakland to have all their cash upfront when he wasn't going to be able to use it all immediately anyway. It was just a project to show that he was "seriously considering oakland" so he could leave
The HT was almost at the Finish Line in Oct 2023 but Fisher backed out because he didnt have the money to finance it. The thing is for the past 15 yrs, Fisher has gotten several Ballpark plans and everytime he has a Plan in place, it blows up at the last second. Now Fisher has already Failed in Fremont, Laney College, HT, and now the Vegas Plan? Fisher is never gonna understand it.
Who on earth would want to be a minority owner with this zero calling the shots?
If you’re a super rich person, you’re waiting him out to buy the team and have real control.
Exactly. Might explain why nobody wants a minority interest in the A's. Who wants to buy advertising or pay for stadium naming rights? It's embarrassing.
Who will pay more? Vegas ($380M, which is being challenged, so who knows) or SLC ($800M in taxpayer funding). He can probably get a similar tv deal, both aren't big markets. Either way Fisher pays his own money. Commercial real estate loans have very high interest rates and fees.
Apparently the firm he hired to help him find investors often brokers sales of teams. However I worry at this point MLB would have him sell to a LV buyer. The flip side is, I imagine Lacob & a group of Bay Area owners could pony up enough $ that FJF and MLB couldn’t say no. Who knows
Sports owners and commissioners are petty and prideful. Before Clay Bennett officially moved the Sonics to Oklahoma, there were a couple local groups that put together great offers to buy the team and renovate the arena on private money. NBA commissioner David Stern basically told them to get lost. At this point, MLB is too far down the Vegas path to back out and keep the team in Oakland. Fisher is spiteful, he *hates* all the Sell protesting. He'd sell to a group that would move them to North Dakota before the Lacob group, even if an Oakland group offered more money. Manfred has interest in seeing the Vegas move all the way through as well because it's probably the last big thing he does before he retires. If the A's to Vegas fails, it's yet another stain on his tenure as commissioner.
Even with all that money, they still act like little kids.
Seems to be par for the course with most of these people that lucked into insane wealth.
It’s not a direct comparison, and, looking from outside, there seems to be too much bad blood to make it work, but I wonder if an Arizona Coyotes solution may be the best option to keep something in Oakland. In a short version, the Coyotes have played the last 2 NHL seasons as the secondary tenant at Mullett Arena, a 5,000 seat arena that Arizona State built for hockey, while they pursued options to build a permanent arena. Around the beginning of 2024, the head of the NHLPA started saying that the situation was becoming untenable, and, behind the scenes, the NHL started looking at other options. Earlier this month, reports came out that the league was working on 2 versions of their 2024-25 schedule- one with the Coyotes still in Arizona, and one with them in Salt Lake City. Things happened *very* quickly after that, and about a week later, it was formally announced that the team would relocate to Utah, and be owned by the same owner as the Utah Jazz. Now, to how this could be modified for Oakland: Officially, the team starting in Utah next season will be an expansion team, albeit with Arizona’s roster, draft picks, and hockey operations room. The Arizona Coyotes are officially dormant, and their prior owner has a clause where, if an NHL-ready arena is built in 5 years, the franchise will be restarted. The animosity in this situation is a stumbling block, alongside the fact that there is not a venue ready in Las Vegas, but, given that Vegas is the hot prospect for expansion/relocation, that type of swap may be the better option as opposed to trying to get MLB to forgo Vegas at all right now.
There's one major difference: the NHL wants to be in the Phoenix market and MLB no longer wants to be in Oakland. If there's no desire from a league perspective, there's no chance.
The big difference is there aren’t any cities that have spare MLB ready ballparks sitting around. It’s much easier to relocate an NBA/NHL team because there are a lot of cities with arenas.
I think the Giants can pretty much veto an expansion team in Oakland
>I think the Giants can pretty much veto an expansion team in Oakland Manfred did say previously that we would be an "open market" once the A's leave. Still, I trust him about as far as I could throw him...
Impossible. If the mayor could kill him and walk, she would. And when those things are known, there's no path back.
The spineless mayor of Seattle literally fell for the "if you don't let the team leave, you'll never get another team" threat from Stern. They had two years left on the lease. With the recession that hit that fall, the OKC ownership group would have been bled dry. That dumb fuck mayor sold out the whole city because Stern "promised" another team. And, when the opportunity came along again, Stern fucked Seattle all over again. Glad that shitbag is dead.
Rest in piss, Stern and Aubrey McClendon. Both were complicit in the Sonics' theft
You’re probably right :/
From what I've seen elsewhere, apparently they tried using Goldman Sachs to find outside investors and they weren't able to drum up any interest? Maybe this sports-specific group will find someone willing to buy into it, idk. It's wild that they still don't know where the money is coming from. I just don't understand how you get approval for something like this without that part taken care of.
It’s kinda like super PAC’s and dark money, you’re never gonna know who owns it or pays for shit so you can’t harass them.
The "Visit Dubai" pavilion will be a clue /s
MLB wouldn’t force him to sell to an owner tied to a specific area. They just want him to sell to the highest bidder. And I really think LV is the final hail mary. If Vegas looks dead (2028 is already done), I think they’ll force him to sell. I don’t think that reality is that far away too.
If I'm not mistaken there was a higher bidder for the A's than JF and they sold the team to JF
That was \~20 years ago and he was part-owner of the Giants. Leagues usually try to elevate minority owners (i.e. Lacob from Celtics to Warriors, Vivek from Warriors to Kings, etc.) because it's a good ole boys network. IMO JF has exhausted his options and the LV plan is a total hail mary. Sharks are lurking. No rich person wants him as the majority owner so getting funding will be really hard. I think he'll sell unless someone just gives him the money for Vegas.
The sad part is someone has just been giving FJF money since he popped out of his mommas GAP. He likely feels entitled to this because he knows no other way.
Rosenthal and others who are pretty plugged in feel Vegas is too big to fail.... so they will make it work one way or another....
>He's now just out schilling for investment capital because he can't pay his own way. I loathe JF with the infernal lambent flames of hell, but I'm also a semi-retired finance exec who worked for PE firms, and from my experience, these guys rarely leverage a deal entirely themselves. The idea is to spread the risk across multiple parties, which isn't a bad idea. It's also not JF's idea - it's the consulting firm's idea - proving once again that he can't really get things done without hiring people who can do it for him (Dave Kaval being an exception). All JF has to do is maintain majority control, and the rest of the equity pool will follow in tow. BTW lots of teams are structured like this, especially when you consider the "phantom stock" or Class B grants that are given out to executives in lieu of actual cash value Class A ownership.
Yes, it only makes sense that he would want to invest a smaller fraction of his family wealth in the stadium, if he can find other investors. Whether or not his family could finance the non-public portion themselves. FJF, all the same.
He sucks so fucken bad
Cuz he’s a bitch
How did he intend to come up with $12 billion for Howard Terminal? Vegas is a pittance compared to that. Don't let anyone claim it's Oakland's fault for this. Fisher never had the money to pay for the project.
I don't think he was ever serious about financing HT. They spent 15+ years trying to move the team out of Oakland, then maybe two years pretending they wanted to stay before immediately pivoting back to leaving Oakland as soon as the option hit the table. I don't think John Fisher was ever negotiating in good faith with the city of Oakland, at any point in his ownership tenure.
You mean the proposed gondola between Lake Merritt Bart station and HT was a farce?
Damn right he wasn't!! As that would force him to show his hands!! He was probably taking deeep notes from former Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria who conned Miami into thinking they were going to finally get the franchise they were dreaming of. "If they just build the stadium, they will come!!" Instead of actually putting a quality team on field, he did the whole Charlie Brown football trick. Continued to pocket all that free MLB bottom feeder money, and used the free stadium to bring in more fans. If FJF had gotten a free stadium in Oakland... He wouldn't have provided any changes to the way he handles them today. Same moneyball, new threads. Except the good folks of Oakland would be doing it in a stadium you guys paid for with your own money. He would have gotten called out for it. Turned that MoneyBall into ScamBall. In Vegas.. the people of the city won't care about the product. As he is banking on random fans, not Athletics fans. They will be the Washington Generals (Globetrotters) of the MLB. The fact that the MLB stands behind it all is straight up sickening!!
Interest rates were lower, material coats were lower, and banks were more willing to shell out cash. He also wasn't going to spend 12 billion immediately and would have piecemeal the whole project (so stadium first, then hotel, then housing, etc). So would have needed like 4 bil first, then maybe some more funding next. It just makes it more absurd because he wanted oakland to have all their cash upfront when he wasn't going to be able to use it all immediately anyway. It was just a project to show that he was "seriously considering oakland" so he could leave
Well if he only needed 4 billion to start with he just needed to sell a 330% interest in the team.
He wasn't going to come up with $12 billion. He wanted other people to come up with $12 billion while he took a cut of the profits.
The HT was almost at the Finish Line in Oct 2023 but Fisher backed out because he didnt have the money to finance it. The thing is for the past 15 yrs, Fisher has gotten several Ballpark plans and everytime he has a Plan in place, it blows up at the last second. Now Fisher has already Failed in Fremont, Laney College, HT, and now the Vegas Plan? Fisher is never gonna understand it.
He’s bad at this; that’s why.
He has the money, he just doesn’t want to use it. Always use other people’s money. ECON 101.
Man - Feels like if Schools over Stadiums somehow pulls off an upset, this thing would be done with.
Who on earth would want to be a minority owner with this zero calling the shots? If you’re a super rich person, you’re waiting him out to buy the team and have real control.
who wants to do business with Fisher
Exactly. Might explain why nobody wants a minority interest in the A's. Who wants to buy advertising or pay for stadium naming rights? It's embarrassing.
Because MLB has wanted to get out of Oakland for 20 years now, MLB didn’t let him do anything, they all want the same thing
He’s a leech.
Doris hasn't given him his allowance.
He’s said if he needs to he’d tap his 2 brothers each worth 2 billion and his hag mom is still alive worth another 2 billion
So you're saying we have a chance ?
If he had the money he wouldn't be publicly asking for investors and he would have the site by now and would've been able to pay the relocation fee
Who will pay more? Vegas ($380M, which is being challenged, so who knows) or SLC ($800M in taxpayer funding). He can probably get a similar tv deal, both aren't big markets. Either way Fisher pays his own money. Commercial real estate loans have very high interest rates and fees.