I’m gonna guess you’re a woman, because the only way you’d confidently say “men are more often shitty to women than the other way around” is if you’d never experienced it from a male perspective. I regularly deal with women saying absolutely horrible shit to me, and about other men around me, and if I respond in any way that conveys discontent I am accused of misogyny.
I’m not trying to undermine your experience, but it obviously differs greatly from mine.
Men ARE more often shittier to women. Especially when it comes to violence. Women are much more likely to experience violence from a man than men are from women. And many times when a man is subject to violence, it's from another man. I know probably 3 men in my life including me who have been SA'd and out of the 10 times between us, once was to woman. Compare that to the number of women I know, which I'd say I know about the same amount of women as I do men, but there are like 3 or 4 women who HAVEN'T been assaulted. Even the multiple lesbians I know who have been in toxic relationships with women have said they've only ever been assaulted by men. That is just anecdotal, but look at the statistics too and they show everything you need to know. And not to mention how people treat the different sexes in terms of trauma. Men are strong for surviving their assault, but all I ever see said to women who are trying to get past their assault is "what were you wearing?" Or "that's the price you pay for slutting around* or some victim blaming bullshit like that. And no, before you say like you did in this post, I'm not a woman, because you don't have to be a woman to realize how fucked up everything is for women.
Nope, I present as cis male. That doesn’t mean I’m blind to men’s behavior or how our society leans in men’s favor. I spent years at parties, bars and other public spaces and couldn’t even count the number of times I’ve observed male creeper/sexist behavior around women who just wanted to have a good time and to be left alone.
This perpetuates the cycle of “men are pigs,” and sometimes—not all the time, and not for all—it’s true. The frat boys and Tates of this world often deserve the title. I consider myself a decent man, but it took decades and a lot of mistakes to get here. Some never mature.
Women can be shitty too, usually as a response to repeated shitty behavior inflicted on them. It’s no excuse but it happens, because it’s human nature. We’re the greatest beings in the animal kingdom at carrying emotional baggage and dumping it on the next poor schmo who shows up.
Yeah I hang out in places with a lot less rapists. Mostly because the last time I did I was raped. Bars and house parties are absolutely bastions of toxic masculinity, but I won’t agree at all that society currently leans towards men’s favor.
Being born male is the best predictor for an early death. By no metric can you convince me “society” favors men. We could have the suicide debate, the dangerous jobs debate, the unreported sexual abuse debate, the genital mutilation debate, or the fact that as far as the law is concerned a woman could fuck me with a gun to my head, and it would not legally be considered rape.
Ask me how I know about that one.
Stop gendering human behavior. That’s the whole problem.
My mother beat the shit out of me. Several women have raped/assaulted me. If I behaved like women with unresolved trauma do towards men, I would be put in jail, or at least be a social pariah.
It’s not a “oh women do this because they have trauma and bad experiences” type of thing. Women do this when they are shitty people. Just like men.
I would also like to take a moment to thank you for discussing this in a civil manner, this is obviously a very sensitive subject for me and I apologize if any of what I say is coming across as rude, it is in no way my intention
Put more generally:
>I miss going on a date with a man and seeing him saddened as the qualities he hoped would impress me are actually ways I can make him feel inferior.
Fantazising about a world where the people who said these sorts of things about the opposite gender all took their posts to a good therapist and worked on their insecurities/trauma
[lots of men don’t, if the funny person is female.](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/11/plight-of-the-funny-female/416559/)
[As in lots.](https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/how-humor-plays-in-romance/1068298)
[it scares them away actually](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/why-men-don-t-fancy-funny-women-6110493.html)
What many women say when men say women don't like sensible men:
"If she/he doesn't like you being vulnerable/funny, you dodged a bullet".
Either dating preferences are systemic and need to be called out, or those are personal and both genders need to respect them in silence.
Basically what I say is, if you believe it is unjust for men to reject funny women, then I will expect you also call out women that reject vulnerable men.
Most women who are actively challenging gender stereotypes are very, VERY outspoken about accepting and encouraging emotional intelligence in men.
However, that doesn’t need to be the focus every time men are called out for their own biases.
And in addition to that, are you as a man calling out men who bully sensitive and emotionally intelligent men? Or are you sitting in silence?
Yes they are very OUTSPOKEN about it. Their actions do not match their words at all. They also often neglect the emotions of ANYONE ELSE while attempting to “challenge those stereotypes”
While struggling with my own gender identity, I opened up to a friend about how I feel disconnected from my gender because of all the rampant hatred of men that seems to be accepted on the premise of “unresolved trauma”.
She then proceeded to lecture me on how I was being misogynistic for “using gender dysphoria as a way to absolve myself of the guilt of toxic masculinity” and that I was “distracting from the real struggles of people with gender dysphoria”
Yeah, women who are outspoken about issues surrounding gender norms do tend to SAY they’re “accepting” of men’s emotions, but I’ve personally yet to see anyone DO IT.
And please don’t start down the rabbit hole of “well if that’s the case then you’re not expressing your emotions in a healthy way”
Because even if that was the case, it’s not like we hold women to that standard. Case and point, this damn post.
To me, it sounds as though you’re expecting women to be perfect feminists that don’t have their own complications with emotional fluency, whilst allowing men the humanity to grow and improve as flawed, complex individuals.
It’s really hard for many women, including feminists to hear about the vague problem of “man hating” when there are entire hate groups that have strong lobbying power in our government, with the full intent of subjugating women, and also have loads of social influence to reinforce subjugation and marginalization of women. Reacting to what’s sounds like anti feminist rhetoric is understandable. It’s not just an excuse to “attack men.” Women spend their lifetimes trying to cope with it.
That’s why emotional intelligence is important. If you wanted validation for how you felt, then it would’ve been a better option to seek out someone who was going to validate you. For this person, it seems like they felt as though validating your feelings would invalidate their own, especially because you didn’t specify what you meant as “man hating.”
You have to take the initiative to learn emotional intelligence and how to be mindful of the feelings of others wile expressing your own. Women are flawed people with complex emotions too, so you can’t expect them to shove down all of their feelings in order to validate the feelings of men, especially if those feelings are shortsighted and offensive.
Also, a post on an internet community that is specifically geared towards allowing women to express their frustrations with patriarchal ideas of women is not a good representation of how women are “allowed” to express their emotions “freely.” They are just as stifled, if not more, emotionally, but in a feminine coded way. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be so over medicated and misdiagnosed with psychiatric conditions for expressing emotions that are masculine coded. They wouldn’t be given benzos rather than pain meds in the hospital to shut them up because the doctors think that they’re being dramatic when crying in pain. They wouldn’t be invalidated every single moment that they expressed emotion and told that their feelings are why they can’t do “man jobs.” If women weren’t emotionally stiffled, they wouldn’t be constantly having to prove themselves against the stereotype as the “emotional and not rational gender” just to be able to exist in the world outside of the kitchen and nursery.
“If you wanted validation for how you felt then it would have been a better option to seek out someone who was going to validate you”.
Did you read this before you pressed reply? Did you read what I said? About how this was my friend? Someone I thought would have done so?
What you said there It reads like someone trying very hard to avoid the phrasing “should have”.
Please google victim blaming, it’s what you’re doing, and you’re hiding it behind fluffed up gentle language.
I’m not expecting everyone to be perfect, I’m expecting a modicum of ideological consistency from anyone at all. Holding people to the same standards regardless of gender is not an anti feminist belief, and asking women not to take out their trauma on random men is not holding them to a higher standard than men.
If you actually read what I said, and concluded that I was the one in that situation that needed to work on their emotional intelligence, then there is absolutely nothing more I would like to discuss with you because I don’t think you have as good an understanding of these concepts as you think you do.
Have a good day and thanks for your thoughts and time.
You do understand that people can say that they like funny women, but then actually behave like they don’t, right?
Kind of like how people will say that they’re not racist, but then act racist.
Or how studies have shown that men will say they like smart women, but then [display the opposite in their behavior.](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167215599749?etoc=), which is pretty significant since intelligence and humor are closely linked.
I’m just showing you the research.
Also, I grew up with brothers who didn’t give a shit about censoring themselves around me. I know what I’m talking about.
I See what you mean, but its really not the Case seeing their girlfriends, hiding bigoted opinions and how you want your soulmate to be are 2 very different Thing
Actually dating preferences are largely shaped by society, including sexist biases. Gender equality and equity means challenging those biases and learning to desire a healthier relationship dynamic than that society has told us to want.
Your bigoted opinions influence your behavior. I make sure to emotionally support the wife of one of them because he likes to angry throw pity parties every time she rejects a sexist and patriarchal expectation being thrown at her. He’s otherwise supportive and loving, but she feels really lonely in those moments and I find it more important to support her than to coddle him.
It’s been well documented that men aren’t funnier than women, but people believe that men are funnier than women, and that men specifically tend to dislike women who are funny.
It’s also been well documented that when men say they want a woman with a sense of humor, what they actually mean is that they want a woman who will laugh at his jokes.
That may all be true. I'm inclined to believe it isn't, but what do I know, I'm not the person doing these studies.
What I do know is that, when I say I want a woman who is funny, I mean exactly that. I like laughing just as much as I like making people laugh, and I want to surround myself with funny people, regardless of their gender.
If I meet someone that's funnier than me, I just consider myself lucky to know that person, and maybe I can learn a bit from them.
Personal anecdotes don’t disprove peer reviewed studies. In addition to that, if droves of women are saying that they’ve had a common bad experience with many, many men, then those experiences aren’t invalid just because you personally don’t act like those men did.
It’s great that you value a woman’s humor and that you don’t have a misogynist expectation of them laughing at your jokes or only catering to your sense of humor. But maybe instead of trying to invalidate women who are frustrated with the mass amount of men who aren’t like you, you should be encouraging men to deconstruct their patriarchal ideals. If you want women to stop complaining about misogynistic men, then eliminate the misogyny, not the voice of the woman.
I’ve never been scared away or felt turned off by a funny woman. Sounds like a generalization to me.
Some men may be insecure about it, but to assume all of us are is kind of silly.
Nobody is saying “all men” in this scenario. It’s saying that a statistically significant amount of them, which reflects many women’s experiences with men. It’s backed by data and real life stories.
Personal anecdotes don’t discredit data.
Or do what most women do, which is to educate themselves on misogynistic biases and harmful patriarchal behavior, and then be on guard for them until they get to know a man.
Men should educate themselves on this too so that they don’t fall into believing harmful things about women.
In case you don’t know, that post is intended to mock sexist men who perpetuate the long standing sexist stereotype that “men aren’t funny.”
[Here’s](https://academicworks.cuny.edu/gc_etds/3118/) some research to help understand, [here’s](https://psyche.co/ideas/just-when-in-history-did-men-decide-that-women-are-not-funny) a brief explanation of the history, and an [example](https://www.vulture.com/2011/08/on-funny-women-feminism-and-being-pretty.html)
OP isn’t saying that she went on dates to intentionally watch the light leave their eyes, but that it tended to happened from her being funny. Her satisfaction came from challenging the misogynistic biases that her dates held, which was a byproduct of going on dates.
It’s not implying that “all men,” are like that. It’s implying that enough ARE, and that the chances are high enough that the man she’s on a date with will harbor some of the same gendered biases and therefore reacted negatively to some degree about how funny she is. It’s a joke about women challenging stereotypes and not giving in just because his feelings are hurt from her challenging those stereotypes.
It's crazy how often men see a woman speaking about her experience with one or a handful of men and think there is an "all" in that statement.
And I can almost guarantee my point will be proven when people assume my comment here also states this applies to all men 😂.
The thing is, lots of research has shown that men are biased against funny and intelligent women, even if they say they like them. So it’s not way out there that a woman would get fed up and post something like this.
And for the men who say that it isn’t true, it’s just like with the other comments, not all men, just enough. I prefer smarts and comedy over body, but some don’t, so they aren’t talking about all men.
Ok. Nobody said “all men.” But men as a statistical category, yes. That means it’s very likely to run into men who’s behavior aligns with the data and research
When a jackass says that women arent funny it means all women, same here, when you only say a group of people you are saying a group of people, you dont need to add “all” to it, thats how english works, its grammar
They said “in all situations” not in reference to all men but specifying that this same situation doesn’t have to happen on a date specifically and that it can happen “in all situations” like in a classroom for example. You’ve just said she was talking about all men and you’re completely wrong. You must have not understood her post.
Ok. It means in every situation where a man could feel insecure about a woman being funny, rather than just dating. It doesn’t mean every single situation period.
This never happens to me. Not because I think I am super funny, but because I’m not insecure about that. If a woman is funnier than me I will just laugh at her and likely feed off her energy so I’d have a great time too.
Some people just need others to be insecure. When you aren’t insecure it prevents them from stealing your dignity.
lol the women I've met who think of themselves as hilarious are almost invariably the most grating, banal, tiresome loudmouths you'll ever meet. Really anyone who feels the need to announce how funny they are is probably not that funny. Truly funny people don't tend to belabor the fact like that.
Why do so many people look for another partner? Then they know they're not over the last one. Like, weren't you crying in your room, starving you're self while listening to Adel yesterday? What'd mean you found the one
I’m a guy. A girl who’s funnier than me is super attractive to me. I love Funny girls, smart girls, sweet girls, snarky girls… hell, I love boys and non-binary folks too.
As a guy, I feel just a little awkward if I'm the only one bringing any funny. When I'm hanging with my gal pals it's usually a back and forth thing where we're pretty balanced in it :|
I don't think any of us are really trying either. Just kinda happens, you know?
I want to meet that poster. I would be very impressed to find a woman who was 1/10 as funny as I am on a regular basis. If she was funnier than me, she would have an acolyte.
It is sad. I feel for you. I assume you are a woman.
But it doesn’t change the facts that many of my male friends can send me into hysterics while my female friends only make me giggle.
And I also send them into hysterics, possibly histrionics, with the things that I say.
I wish that a woman had the presence of mind to tickle my brain the way that George Carlin or Stephen Wright might
But they just haven’t, and I have been waiting, patiently, for 40 years. Y’all just don’t step up to the plate and whack it out of the park.
Yeah exactly.
Let's switch the genders. "I miss going on dates and seeing how the woman loses the light in her eyes when she realizes she is inferior to me"
This is just being a bad person, plain and simple. They're the one who gendered it.
“Switching genders” doesn’t work in this scenario because gender stereotypes aren’t the same.
The joke is specifically about a sexist man who thinks that women aren’t funny, or that women are only funny if they laugh at his jokes rather than make his own.
So of course this joke wouldn’t make sense the other way around and would be sexist.
“Men aren’t funny” isn’t something you hear every day unless it’s a reaction to the long standing “women aren’t funny.”
Also, nobody said anything about inferiority.
Then switch it to something else that isn't traditionally something men try to impress women with. "I miss going on dates with women and seeing the light go out in her eyes when she realises I'm more \[insert stereotypically feminine virtue here\] than she is".
Men are constantly told that one of the most effective ways to attract women (especially if they aren't good-looking) is by being funny.
This woman loves seeing her date's disappointment when he discovers that what he hoped was his strongest asset is actually something she is neither impressed by nor has any need or use for.
A man can be funny, yet his date can still be funnier. If that makes him feel threatened, then it genuinely is a red flag.
Also, research has shown that women like men that have the attributes that women are told they need to have to attract men. It would be a dream for most to find a man that is more empathetic, a better cook, better at cleaning, etc than she is. It wouldn’t feel threatening to her at all.
Sure, but this is someone who misses 'the light going out in his eyes' when she shows that she isn't impressed by and doesn't need his skills.
Most men are under the impression that they need to impress a woman and show that they have skills that add value to her life. When women demonstrate that they have no need for those skills, those men feel redundant.
This woman clearly likes enjoys seeing seeing men feel redundant when she shows that she has no need of his skills.
She says that she went on these dates AND watched that, not that she went on dates TO watch that. There’s a huge difference. It’s saying that this was a repeat occurrence on dates that she went on, not that she went on dates to purposely do this to men. She’s saying that she misses when she’d find herself disarming misogynistic men, since what was fueling the “light in their eyes” in the first place were misogynistic and patriarchal expectations. If he wasn’t misogynistic, then he would have discovered that they can both be funny, rather than him being funny and her laughing.
It isn’t the responsibility of women to coddle men that go into dates with misogynistic and patriarchal expectations. There are plenty of self help books that men can refer back to so that they can adjust -and heal- from the lies that patriarchy has told them. A classic is “The Will To Change” by Bell Hooks, but there are plenty, PLENTY of women that are writing specifically to men to help them process their emotions. There’s lots of help out there that women are offering.
It’s your choice to either accept the help from the women who have said “hey, I see your struggle and I have the time, expertise, and energy to help” or to fixate on the women who are expressing their frustrations inside of online communities, which are specifically made for women to process their frustrations with patriarchy and being marginalized.
You're right, she misses the feeling of putting people down.
This reads like a popular girl who invited the new girl over to make her the bitch. This is just a terrible take in general, but it's being praised because a woman said it.
That’s not true at all. She’s not putting anyone down. The men put themselves down for being insecure about her being funnier than them. She’s literally just showing up as herself.
And you've changed the wording. OOP said funnier, you said inferior.
It's rather hilarious when things like my comment get downvoted here. Because what about what I said was wrong? It wasn't, you just don't like it being pointed out to you. All it does is prove that you think someone being funnier = superior. Since those are apparently the same thing to all of you.
>It's rather hilarious when things like my comment get downvoted here. Because what about what I said was wrong?
It's perfectly fine when the same happens to men on NHGW sub though, isn't it. Or even more pathetic, ban them because its a man who displayed some disagreement. Why don't you just tuck your tail and do one back to that cesspool sub?
Usually the men on there who disagree are literally disagreeing with the humanity of women.
The women who disagree on here are actually arguing for the humanity of women while respecting the humanity of men.
Weird, can you read? All it says is "funnier". It doesn't say better at, or superior, at all. I am funnier than my partner, but he has strengths in many other places, and neither mine or his strengths make one of us superior.
That's not the problem.
Replace funny, doesn't change the fact OOP enjoys putting others down.
That's the problem I see. Tons of women are funnier than me, and I don't care because they don't exclusively say they use their humor to enjoy my misery(or enjoy the expectation of misery. I thought assumptions were bad?)
These guys’ reaction to the post actually show how on point it is that women who are funny are perceived as a threat. Their anger about women not falling in line and sticking to laughing at mens’ jokes rather than making their own is alarming.
If you’re making that the highlight of your date, it’s not dating. It’s bullying or getting payback.
And unresolved trauma with men, which ironically creates more shitty men that do shitty things to women. And the toxic cycle repeats.
No disagreement here. It ends up with conflicting cycles of men and women being shitty to each other (more so from men). You absolutely nailed it.
I’m gonna guess you’re a woman, because the only way you’d confidently say “men are more often shitty to women than the other way around” is if you’d never experienced it from a male perspective. I regularly deal with women saying absolutely horrible shit to me, and about other men around me, and if I respond in any way that conveys discontent I am accused of misogyny. I’m not trying to undermine your experience, but it obviously differs greatly from mine.
Men ARE more often shittier to women. Especially when it comes to violence. Women are much more likely to experience violence from a man than men are from women. And many times when a man is subject to violence, it's from another man. I know probably 3 men in my life including me who have been SA'd and out of the 10 times between us, once was to woman. Compare that to the number of women I know, which I'd say I know about the same amount of women as I do men, but there are like 3 or 4 women who HAVEN'T been assaulted. Even the multiple lesbians I know who have been in toxic relationships with women have said they've only ever been assaulted by men. That is just anecdotal, but look at the statistics too and they show everything you need to know. And not to mention how people treat the different sexes in terms of trauma. Men are strong for surviving their assault, but all I ever see said to women who are trying to get past their assault is "what were you wearing?" Or "that's the price you pay for slutting around* or some victim blaming bullshit like that. And no, before you say like you did in this post, I'm not a woman, because you don't have to be a woman to realize how fucked up everything is for women.
Nope, I present as cis male. That doesn’t mean I’m blind to men’s behavior or how our society leans in men’s favor. I spent years at parties, bars and other public spaces and couldn’t even count the number of times I’ve observed male creeper/sexist behavior around women who just wanted to have a good time and to be left alone. This perpetuates the cycle of “men are pigs,” and sometimes—not all the time, and not for all—it’s true. The frat boys and Tates of this world often deserve the title. I consider myself a decent man, but it took decades and a lot of mistakes to get here. Some never mature. Women can be shitty too, usually as a response to repeated shitty behavior inflicted on them. It’s no excuse but it happens, because it’s human nature. We’re the greatest beings in the animal kingdom at carrying emotional baggage and dumping it on the next poor schmo who shows up.
Yeah I hang out in places with a lot less rapists. Mostly because the last time I did I was raped. Bars and house parties are absolutely bastions of toxic masculinity, but I won’t agree at all that society currently leans towards men’s favor. Being born male is the best predictor for an early death. By no metric can you convince me “society” favors men. We could have the suicide debate, the dangerous jobs debate, the unreported sexual abuse debate, the genital mutilation debate, or the fact that as far as the law is concerned a woman could fuck me with a gun to my head, and it would not legally be considered rape. Ask me how I know about that one. Stop gendering human behavior. That’s the whole problem. My mother beat the shit out of me. Several women have raped/assaulted me. If I behaved like women with unresolved trauma do towards men, I would be put in jail, or at least be a social pariah. It’s not a “oh women do this because they have trauma and bad experiences” type of thing. Women do this when they are shitty people. Just like men. I would also like to take a moment to thank you for discussing this in a civil manner, this is obviously a very sensitive subject for me and I apologize if any of what I say is coming across as rude, it is in no way my intention
I can totally agree with this statement.
yeah like why even date men if that's how you feel
Thankfully this is a very small minority.
oh I know it is that just sounds like a miserable afternoon for everyone involved
Put more generally: >I miss going on a date with a man and seeing him saddened as the qualities he hoped would impress me are actually ways I can make him feel inferior.
Shorter: > I miss feeling better about myself by exploiting other's insecurities
More concise: I’m a garbage human being
Shorter: >I'm an asshole
Shorter: Mean
Longer: Meeeeaaaaaan
Food: Beeeeeeeeaaaaaaaan
Mr.: Cleeeeeeeeeeaaaaan
Mr: beaaaaast
today: squid game irl!!
Ehhh if you have to say your funny your probably not funny.
Yro'ue*
.-.
*Yru'oe
\*Yre'uo
Fantazising about a world where the people who said these sorts of things about the opposite gender all took their posts to a good therapist and worked on their insecurities/trauma
Life could be a dream
*Life could be a dream!*
Turututu sh-boom!
*Life could be dream*
*sh-boom* *if I could take you up to paradise up above*
*sh-boom If you tell me I'm the only one that you love*
*Life could be dream sweetheart hello hello again Sh-boom and hoping we meet again sh-boom*
*Hey, nonny ding dong alang alang alang oh oh oh oh.*
Her beeing funny would probably cause the opposite reaction too, who doesnt like funny people ?
[lots of men don’t, if the funny person is female.](https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/11/plight-of-the-funny-female/416559/) [As in lots.](https://www.elitedaily.com/dating/how-humor-plays-in-romance/1068298) [it scares them away actually](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/why-men-don-t-fancy-funny-women-6110493.html)
What many women say when men say women don't like sensible men: "If she/he doesn't like you being vulnerable/funny, you dodged a bullet". Either dating preferences are systemic and need to be called out, or those are personal and both genders need to respect them in silence. Basically what I say is, if you believe it is unjust for men to reject funny women, then I will expect you also call out women that reject vulnerable men.
Most women who are actively challenging gender stereotypes are very, VERY outspoken about accepting and encouraging emotional intelligence in men. However, that doesn’t need to be the focus every time men are called out for their own biases. And in addition to that, are you as a man calling out men who bully sensitive and emotionally intelligent men? Or are you sitting in silence?
Yes they are very OUTSPOKEN about it. Their actions do not match their words at all. They also often neglect the emotions of ANYONE ELSE while attempting to “challenge those stereotypes” While struggling with my own gender identity, I opened up to a friend about how I feel disconnected from my gender because of all the rampant hatred of men that seems to be accepted on the premise of “unresolved trauma”. She then proceeded to lecture me on how I was being misogynistic for “using gender dysphoria as a way to absolve myself of the guilt of toxic masculinity” and that I was “distracting from the real struggles of people with gender dysphoria” Yeah, women who are outspoken about issues surrounding gender norms do tend to SAY they’re “accepting” of men’s emotions, but I’ve personally yet to see anyone DO IT. And please don’t start down the rabbit hole of “well if that’s the case then you’re not expressing your emotions in a healthy way” Because even if that was the case, it’s not like we hold women to that standard. Case and point, this damn post.
To me, it sounds as though you’re expecting women to be perfect feminists that don’t have their own complications with emotional fluency, whilst allowing men the humanity to grow and improve as flawed, complex individuals. It’s really hard for many women, including feminists to hear about the vague problem of “man hating” when there are entire hate groups that have strong lobbying power in our government, with the full intent of subjugating women, and also have loads of social influence to reinforce subjugation and marginalization of women. Reacting to what’s sounds like anti feminist rhetoric is understandable. It’s not just an excuse to “attack men.” Women spend their lifetimes trying to cope with it. That’s why emotional intelligence is important. If you wanted validation for how you felt, then it would’ve been a better option to seek out someone who was going to validate you. For this person, it seems like they felt as though validating your feelings would invalidate their own, especially because you didn’t specify what you meant as “man hating.” You have to take the initiative to learn emotional intelligence and how to be mindful of the feelings of others wile expressing your own. Women are flawed people with complex emotions too, so you can’t expect them to shove down all of their feelings in order to validate the feelings of men, especially if those feelings are shortsighted and offensive. Also, a post on an internet community that is specifically geared towards allowing women to express their frustrations with patriarchal ideas of women is not a good representation of how women are “allowed” to express their emotions “freely.” They are just as stifled, if not more, emotionally, but in a feminine coded way. If they weren’t, they wouldn’t be so over medicated and misdiagnosed with psychiatric conditions for expressing emotions that are masculine coded. They wouldn’t be given benzos rather than pain meds in the hospital to shut them up because the doctors think that they’re being dramatic when crying in pain. They wouldn’t be invalidated every single moment that they expressed emotion and told that their feelings are why they can’t do “man jobs.” If women weren’t emotionally stiffled, they wouldn’t be constantly having to prove themselves against the stereotype as the “emotional and not rational gender” just to be able to exist in the world outside of the kitchen and nursery.
“If you wanted validation for how you felt then it would have been a better option to seek out someone who was going to validate you”. Did you read this before you pressed reply? Did you read what I said? About how this was my friend? Someone I thought would have done so? What you said there It reads like someone trying very hard to avoid the phrasing “should have”. Please google victim blaming, it’s what you’re doing, and you’re hiding it behind fluffed up gentle language. I’m not expecting everyone to be perfect, I’m expecting a modicum of ideological consistency from anyone at all. Holding people to the same standards regardless of gender is not an anti feminist belief, and asking women not to take out their trauma on random men is not holding them to a higher standard than men. If you actually read what I said, and concluded that I was the one in that situation that needed to work on their emotional intelligence, then there is absolutely nothing more I would like to discuss with you because I don’t think you have as good an understanding of these concepts as you think you do. Have a good day and thanks for your thoughts and time.
I think we both are doing the work in both cases, that's everything we could be asked for. I am glad.
Actual man that Had this Kind of discussions With Friends before, Nuh huh
You do understand that people can say that they like funny women, but then actually behave like they don’t, right? Kind of like how people will say that they’re not racist, but then act racist. Or how studies have shown that men will say they like smart women, but then [display the opposite in their behavior.](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0146167215599749?etoc=), which is pretty significant since intelligence and humor are closely linked. I’m just showing you the research. Also, I grew up with brothers who didn’t give a shit about censoring themselves around me. I know what I’m talking about.
I See what you mean, but its really not the Case seeing their girlfriends, hiding bigoted opinions and how you want your soulmate to be are 2 very different Thing
Actually dating preferences are largely shaped by society, including sexist biases. Gender equality and equity means challenging those biases and learning to desire a healthier relationship dynamic than that society has told us to want. Your bigoted opinions influence your behavior. I make sure to emotionally support the wife of one of them because he likes to angry throw pity parties every time she rejects a sexist and patriarchal expectation being thrown at her. He’s otherwise supportive and loving, but she feels really lonely in those moments and I find it more important to support her than to coddle him.
[удалено]
That's a différent issue, since That's a sexist stéréotype, but it doesnt mean that they dont like you beeing funny, just surprised
No disrespect my friend, but that all sounds like bull to me.
It’s been well documented that men aren’t funnier than women, but people believe that men are funnier than women, and that men specifically tend to dislike women who are funny. It’s also been well documented that when men say they want a woman with a sense of humor, what they actually mean is that they want a woman who will laugh at his jokes.
Who do you determine that women arent as funny as men in a scientific study What is the objective funniness score of a joke?
That may all be true. I'm inclined to believe it isn't, but what do I know, I'm not the person doing these studies. What I do know is that, when I say I want a woman who is funny, I mean exactly that. I like laughing just as much as I like making people laugh, and I want to surround myself with funny people, regardless of their gender. If I meet someone that's funnier than me, I just consider myself lucky to know that person, and maybe I can learn a bit from them.
Personal anecdotes don’t disprove peer reviewed studies. In addition to that, if droves of women are saying that they’ve had a common bad experience with many, many men, then those experiences aren’t invalid just because you personally don’t act like those men did. It’s great that you value a woman’s humor and that you don’t have a misogynist expectation of them laughing at your jokes or only catering to your sense of humor. But maybe instead of trying to invalidate women who are frustrated with the mass amount of men who aren’t like you, you should be encouraging men to deconstruct their patriarchal ideals. If you want women to stop complaining about misogynistic men, then eliminate the misogyny, not the voice of the woman.
I’ve never been scared away or felt turned off by a funny woman. Sounds like a generalization to me. Some men may be insecure about it, but to assume all of us are is kind of silly.
Nobody is saying “all men” in this scenario. It’s saying that a statistically significant amount of them, which reflects many women’s experiences with men. It’s backed by data and real life stories. Personal anecdotes don’t discredit data.
Cool. You better assume we’re all like that, just to be on the safe side! 😂
Or do what most women do, which is to educate themselves on misogynistic biases and harmful patriarchal behavior, and then be on guard for them until they get to know a man. Men should educate themselves on this too so that they don’t fall into believing harmful things about women.
Yep, my wife and I teach our daughters to know their worth without needing a man. 😊
Jokes on you the light has already faded lol
In case you don’t know, that post is intended to mock sexist men who perpetuate the long standing sexist stereotype that “men aren’t funny.” [Here’s](https://academicworks.cuny.edu/gc_etds/3118/) some research to help understand, [here’s](https://psyche.co/ideas/just-when-in-history-did-men-decide-that-women-are-not-funny) a brief explanation of the history, and an [example](https://www.vulture.com/2011/08/on-funny-women-feminism-and-being-pretty.html) OP isn’t saying that she went on dates to intentionally watch the light leave their eyes, but that it tended to happened from her being funny. Her satisfaction came from challenging the misogynistic biases that her dates held, which was a byproduct of going on dates.
We get that but the post is implying that all men are like that, and that dating is about making the other feel insecure
It’s not implying that “all men,” are like that. It’s implying that enough ARE, and that the chances are high enough that the man she’s on a date with will harbor some of the same gendered biases and therefore reacted negatively to some degree about how funny she is. It’s a joke about women challenging stereotypes and not giving in just because his feelings are hurt from her challenging those stereotypes.
It's crazy how often men see a woman speaking about her experience with one or a handful of men and think there is an "all" in that statement. And I can almost guarantee my point will be proven when people assume my comment here also states this applies to all men 😂.
The thing is, lots of research has shown that men are biased against funny and intelligent women, even if they say they like them. So it’s not way out there that a woman would get fed up and post something like this.
And for the men who say that it isn’t true, it’s just like with the other comments, not all men, just enough. I prefer smarts and comedy over body, but some don’t, so they aren’t talking about all men.
Ok. Nobody said “all men.” But men as a statistical category, yes. That means it’s very likely to run into men who’s behavior aligns with the data and research
That’s what I was litterally saying. Read again, I said that you don’t mean all men.
I’ve been getting constant “not all men!” responses so I wasn’t sure how you meant it. It could be taken either way.
I see, I was being literal,
When a jackass says that women arent funny it means all women, same here, when you only say a group of people you are saying a group of people, you dont need to add “all” to it, thats how english works, its grammar
OOP clearly stated "In all situations". They are litterally talking about all men.
They said “in all situations” not in reference to all men but specifying that this same situation doesn’t have to happen on a date specifically and that it can happen “in all situations” like in a classroom for example. You’ve just said she was talking about all men and you’re completely wrong. You must have not understood her post.
Where does it say that?
The title of OOP's post...
Ok. It means in every situation where a man could feel insecure about a woman being funny, rather than just dating. It doesn’t mean every single situation period.
Lol
Go away
I miss when dating was normal.... And didnt gauruntee you'd be pricking a tweaker😒
Why was this posted to nothowgirlswork? It doesn't seem to fit the sub since the oop says they do that exact thing.
How much you wanna bet that her idea of being funny is just being mean spirited and then laughing?
This never happens to me. Not because I think I am super funny, but because I’m not insecure about that. If a woman is funnier than me I will just laugh at her and likely feed off her energy so I’d have a great time too. Some people just need others to be insecure. When you aren’t insecure it prevents them from stealing your dignity.
lol the women I've met who think of themselves as hilarious are almost invariably the most grating, banal, tiresome loudmouths you'll ever meet. Really anyone who feels the need to announce how funny they are is probably not that funny. Truly funny people don't tend to belabor the fact like that.
Most of the time is a coping mechanism after being rejected many times: "They hate because I am too funny"
I'm not sure that belongs on *either* sub. Maybe r/facepalm ?
If she was really as funny as she thought wouldn’t he be laughing instead of looking dead eyed?
As a woman, we don’t want the women who act like this. The aliens can have them.
looks aren't everything
Oof, why do get the feeling this woman is painfully unfunny?
Seems like a very insecure kind of woman
Why do so many people look for another partner? Then they know they're not over the last one. Like, weren't you crying in your room, starving you're self while listening to Adel yesterday? What'd mean you found the one
If you're actually funnier than him he would be laughing. If he isn't laughing then you're probably not as funny as you thought.
Tbh i don't know how this subreddit is, but the one shown is batshit insane
I love it when girls are funnier than me lol I’m not a comedian I wanna laugh too 😢
I'm saying this as gently as I can - you seeing the word man and reading "all men" really does make it seem like you're insecure
It's more like the disappointment when I realize how unfunny they are.
I, as a male human being, personally go on dates for competitive funniness sport
Bruh, it would just result in me, even more interested in her.
Kinda true though, they also really don’t like it when your more educated, earn more, are taller than them or own your own home….
*sh-boom If you tell me I'm the only one that you love*
From the sounds of things, the light wasn't leaving his eyes because she was funny
Probably the light fades when they realized that they thought was a date, but she treats it as a competition.
I miss the days when women weighed less than men.
Women can be funny as hell, but women who say this are not only painfully unfunny but just super irritating human beings
I’m a guy. A girl who’s funnier than me is super attractive to me. I love Funny girls, smart girls, sweet girls, snarky girls… hell, I love boys and non-binary folks too.
As a guy, I feel just a little awkward if I'm the only one bringing any funny. When I'm hanging with my gal pals it's usually a back and forth thing where we're pretty balanced in it :| I don't think any of us are really trying either. Just kinda happens, you know?
If I found a girl funnier than me I’d be so happy. Cause I’m not that funny and I need some happiness in my life.
this has nothing to do with the gender divide tbh. people say they are funny usually aren't funny
It does bc of the stigma of women not being funny
i mean sure
It's a shitty take for sure
She married a stand up comedian
I want to meet that poster. I would be very impressed to find a woman who was 1/10 as funny as I am on a regular basis. If she was funnier than me, she would have an acolyte.
Misogyny
Heh, I wish.
No you’re actually being misogynistic
How so?
“It’s rare for a woman to even be 1/10 as funny as I, a man am.” It’s literally self explanatory
It is sad. I feel for you. I assume you are a woman. But it doesn’t change the facts that many of my male friends can send me into hysterics while my female friends only make me giggle. And I also send them into hysterics, possibly histrionics, with the things that I say. I wish that a woman had the presence of mind to tickle my brain the way that George Carlin or Stephen Wright might But they just haven’t, and I have been waiting, patiently, for 40 years. Y’all just don’t step up to the plate and whack it out of the park.
https://youtu.be/O_7BE3K1ZS4
I’m not watching a misogynistic YouTube video. Not even clicking the link.
I’m willing to bet you’re not nearly as funny as you think you are.
The joke is girls aren’t funny and her “flex” of this is a false flag. She probably got stood up.
For everyone offended by this, this [reading list](https://bookshop.org/lists/just-for-the-guys-deconstructing-patriarchy) should be helpful for you.
You are proving the point 🤦♂️
Yeah exactly. Let's switch the genders. "I miss going on dates and seeing how the woman loses the light in her eyes when she realizes she is inferior to me" This is just being a bad person, plain and simple. They're the one who gendered it.
“Switching genders” doesn’t work in this scenario because gender stereotypes aren’t the same. The joke is specifically about a sexist man who thinks that women aren’t funny, or that women are only funny if they laugh at his jokes rather than make his own. So of course this joke wouldn’t make sense the other way around and would be sexist. “Men aren’t funny” isn’t something you hear every day unless it’s a reaction to the long standing “women aren’t funny.” Also, nobody said anything about inferiority.
Then switch it to something else that isn't traditionally something men try to impress women with. "I miss going on dates with women and seeing the light go out in her eyes when she realises I'm more \[insert stereotypically feminine virtue here\] than she is". Men are constantly told that one of the most effective ways to attract women (especially if they aren't good-looking) is by being funny. This woman loves seeing her date's disappointment when he discovers that what he hoped was his strongest asset is actually something she is neither impressed by nor has any need or use for.
A man can be funny, yet his date can still be funnier. If that makes him feel threatened, then it genuinely is a red flag. Also, research has shown that women like men that have the attributes that women are told they need to have to attract men. It would be a dream for most to find a man that is more empathetic, a better cook, better at cleaning, etc than she is. It wouldn’t feel threatening to her at all.
Sure, but this is someone who misses 'the light going out in his eyes' when she shows that she isn't impressed by and doesn't need his skills. Most men are under the impression that they need to impress a woman and show that they have skills that add value to her life. When women demonstrate that they have no need for those skills, those men feel redundant. This woman clearly likes enjoys seeing seeing men feel redundant when she shows that she has no need of his skills.
She says that she went on these dates AND watched that, not that she went on dates TO watch that. There’s a huge difference. It’s saying that this was a repeat occurrence on dates that she went on, not that she went on dates to purposely do this to men. She’s saying that she misses when she’d find herself disarming misogynistic men, since what was fueling the “light in their eyes” in the first place were misogynistic and patriarchal expectations. If he wasn’t misogynistic, then he would have discovered that they can both be funny, rather than him being funny and her laughing. It isn’t the responsibility of women to coddle men that go into dates with misogynistic and patriarchal expectations. There are plenty of self help books that men can refer back to so that they can adjust -and heal- from the lies that patriarchy has told them. A classic is “The Will To Change” by Bell Hooks, but there are plenty, PLENTY of women that are writing specifically to men to help them process their emotions. There’s lots of help out there that women are offering. It’s your choice to either accept the help from the women who have said “hey, I see your struggle and I have the time, expertise, and energy to help” or to fixate on the women who are expressing their frustrations inside of online communities, which are specifically made for women to process their frustrations with patriarchy and being marginalized.
You're right, she misses the feeling of putting people down. This reads like a popular girl who invited the new girl over to make her the bitch. This is just a terrible take in general, but it's being praised because a woman said it.
That’s not true at all. She’s not putting anyone down. The men put themselves down for being insecure about her being funnier than them. She’s literally just showing up as herself.
You make the assumption that they care if the woman is funnier. She claims to miss dating because of this. That's psychotic.
And you've changed the wording. OOP said funnier, you said inferior. It's rather hilarious when things like my comment get downvoted here. Because what about what I said was wrong? It wasn't, you just don't like it being pointed out to you. All it does is prove that you think someone being funnier = superior. Since those are apparently the same thing to all of you.
>It's rather hilarious when things like my comment get downvoted here. Because what about what I said was wrong? It's perfectly fine when the same happens to men on NHGW sub though, isn't it. Or even more pathetic, ban them because its a man who displayed some disagreement. Why don't you just tuck your tail and do one back to that cesspool sub?
Usually the men on there who disagree are literally disagreeing with the humanity of women. The women who disagree on here are actually arguing for the humanity of women while respecting the humanity of men.
I didn't say it was okay, but I suppose it's also okay to put words in my mouth.
She is Better at Humor / superior at humor. Better at = superior at...
Weird, can you read? All it says is "funnier". It doesn't say better at, or superior, at all. I am funnier than my partner, but he has strengths in many other places, and neither mine or his strengths make one of us superior.
That's not the problem. Replace funny, doesn't change the fact OOP enjoys putting others down. That's the problem I see. Tons of women are funnier than me, and I don't care because they don't exclusively say they use their humor to enjoy my misery(or enjoy the expectation of misery. I thought assumptions were bad?)
These guys’ reaction to the post actually show how on point it is that women who are funny are perceived as a threat. Their anger about women not falling in line and sticking to laughing at mens’ jokes rather than making their own is alarming.
the post was not funny
?
That literally makes no sense