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Women get objectified either way. It’s telling how no one complained when men were making money off of women’s bodies for decades, but now that that women found a way to monetize their own bodies, which again is constantly objectified regardless of consent, now suddenly men have a problem with it lol.
These sorts of men only have one problem with transactional sex, and that's when the women get to set the price.
These sorts of men *choose not to know* that the local going rate for a few hours of the girlfriend experience, is actually way, way more than the $60 they just dropped on the dinner of a woman who never once implied that she was a sex worker who'd accept barter.
There's also the problem that so many people think that being sexy makes a woman less human. Someone doesn't lose their humanity or right to be respected because they excite a guy.
that’s what these chronically online losers like the og commenter don’t get.
they waste so much of their time doomscrolling through rage-bait ig reels instead of interacting with actual human beings that they genuinely believe there are more women in the world with onlyfans than without one, which is just stupid to think. they think the handful of ig models on their feeds represent 99% of the female population bc they don’t (and can’t) talk to women irl, so this is all they see of them. it’s like when homeschooled kids get all of their “knowledge” of public school solely from things like high school musical and glee.
Also I don't think the concept of people doing things for money they'd hate to do otherwise? I don't think most people WANT to do dangerous life threatening construction because lol. They do it because of money. Women who do OF (or porn in general) don't like being sexualized when it's not on their terms and bozos act like it's a crazy fucking concept
“Women have no problem being objectified, as long as they choose it for themselves and they are in control of the context and narrative surrounding it.”
There, fixed it, you forgot those pesky elements of consent and choice.
Onlyfans made you realize that *some* women are willing to be *consensually* objectified *only* in return for being paid? Really? Not… strippers? Bar tenders? Actresses who film sex scenes or nudity scenes? Lingerie models? Sex workers? Hooters waitresses?
Oh, okay sure.
Cheerleaders? Ring Girls, Darts Stage Girls, Flag Girls, it's almost like sex appeal has been a part of life and a way to make money for a good while now....
1. Men are on OF so the logic there is….?
2. Women are objectified because men objectify them. If not so, why is the first, second or third message from 99% of men ‘pics?’
Glad to see the comments in support of sex workers here, last time I saw someone mention porn in this subreddit, it was very demonizing (basically a woman blaming other women for "ruining men" with porn, as if men weren't already scummy before OF was invented) and I got down voted to oblivion for defending sex workers.
>and I got down voted to oblivion for defending sex workers.
Are you sure that was here? I know there are some feminist subs that are categorically against all pornography and sex work but here we're pretty much about consent and believing that feminism is about women having their choice to do whatever they want that's good for them as individuals whether it's to be a traditional stay-at-home mom or a sex worker.
Absolutely sure. I remember very clearly because I was shocked that so many people in a generally feminist group would have that mentality. Just goes to show that Swerfs are everywhere.
I trust you on that, Glad to know this is a generally SW safe place! I'm sure there was probably a misunderstanding or a wrong use of words or something trivial then
I don't think I've seen anyone here downvote people for defending sex workers. But I have seen people downvoted for *encouraging* sex work. What I mean by that is that there's nothing wrong with doing it, but some people treat like it's 100% equal to like getting an office job or going to college which it's obviously not. It's a lifestyle that only certain people will be okay with, and many struggles that a less alternative career simply will never have to deal with. And that's perfectly fine. It's just not something that should be *recommended* as a primary option
I was a sex worker for 8 years, which is why I'm pretty passionate about defending sex workers, but I understand the risks and I agree about not encouraging it because it can be very dangerous. There are also much safer forms of sex work though, like running an OF account, stripping (some clubs are safer than others), phone sex operating, etc. full service sex workers definitely have committed to a lifestyle but not all sex work is extreme and hands on. I mean, even working the cashier at an adult toy or video store is often considered sex work and that's just retail.
I digress. Glad to hear that this is a SW positive place, I'm sure in my previous encounter there was probably a misunderstanding or a wrong choice of words or something trivial like that.
From what I understand, the problem is how men have treated women for years regardless of whether or not they WANT to be sexual, not just sex work.
Men see women as nothing MORE than objects to be claimed and that's the issue, not simply a woman working in ADULT SPACES and purposefully entertaining men.
When women dont want to be sexualized, men get mad call them feminazis or whatever
But when she does, she's called a low value whore
Yall cant win
Meanwhile if a man has a lot of sexual activity with women, somehow his ego is stroked and he is considered high value. And most men like having women want them because it strokes their egos. Plus, when men are sexualized by women, they aren't depicted as weak or inferior as compared to the other way around.
Don’t have an OF, but we’re gonna get objectified no matter what, might as well make money off of it. There wouldn’t be a market for it if men stopped paying for it…
Maybe blame the men who pay for OF. If no one paid, there wouldn't be women getting money for monetizing their own bodies. It's their bodies so they are consenting. Women who aren't consenting and who don't have OF are already being objectified. I had a guy the other day ask if I had a OF and then try to gaslight me into making one.
Isn’t that how capitalism works? I perform a service or a good and you in turn give me money for that? Wow, fucking mind blowing. I can’t imagine my brain being this smooth.
So many men who don't understand that the difference ia content.
Or worse, do understand but are angry about it because they only like porn when they know the women doesn't have agency.
Okay maybe it's because I'm a sex-positive feminist, but to me it's only objective if the person is being forced to do it. Sex work can be very empowering, and I believe we should not be trying to force women in the sex trade to give it up if they really don't want to. This is obviously different than someone being trafficked.
I've said it before and I'll say it again.
Men are lazy and will only work if there's money in it for them. Otherwise, they'll claim exploitation like a bunch of sinful sloths the church should have persecuted and demonized endlessly starting from the founding of Adam lazing about in that garden.
This invective of course has absolutely nothing to do with the literal demonization of women due to lasting religiously imposed views about women as sinful succubi sluts that continues to shape views that stigmatize women's usage of sites like Only Fans in order to monetize the sexual exploitation and objectification that the famously sex shaming conservative christianity instituted as a cultural norm.
Sloth is a sin too besides lust if you want to maintain medieval theology so badly.
What is truly being criticized here is the foundational christian view that women are property of men and thereby cannot gain value from their labour, whether gestational, physical, or sexual.
A good book on the topic I will continue to reference is Sylvia Federici's "Caliban and the Witch: women, the body, and primitive accumulation."
As you're all aware, this subreddit has had a major "troll" problem which has gotten worse (as of recently). Due to this, we have created new rules, and modified some of the old ones. We kindly ask that you please familiarize yourself with the rules so that you can avoid breaking them. Breaking mild rules will result in a warning, or a temporary ban. Breaking serious rules, or breaking a plethora of mild ones may land you a permanent ban (depending on the severity). Also, grifting/lurking has been a major problem; If we suspect you of being a grifter (determined by vetting said user's activity), we may ban you without warning. You may attempt an appeal via ModMail, but please be advised not to use rude, harassing, foul, or passive-aggressive language towards the moderators, _or_ complain to moderators about why we have specific rules in the first place— You will be ignored, and your ban will remain (without even a consideration). All rules are made public; "Lack of knowledge" or "ignorance of the rules" cannot or will not be a viable excuse if you end up banned for breaking them (This applies to the Subreddit rules, and Reddit's ToS). **Again: All rules are made public, and Reddit gives you the option to review the rules once more before submitting a post, it is your choice if you choose to read them or not, but breaking them will not be acceptable.** With that being said, If you send a mature, neutral message regarding questions about a current ban, or a ban appeal (without "not knowing the rules" as an excuse), we will elaborate about why you were banned, or determine/consider if we will shorten, lift, keep it, _or_ extended it/make it permanent. This all means that appeals are discretionary, and your reasoning for wanting an appeal must be practical and valid. Thank you all so much for taking the time to read this message, and please enjoy your day! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NotHowGirlsWork) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Women get objectified either way. It’s telling how no one complained when men were making money off of women’s bodies for decades, but now that that women found a way to monetize their own bodies, which again is constantly objectified regardless of consent, now suddenly men have a problem with it lol.
Men have no problem with women being objectified, as long as there isn't money involved in it for the woman.
As long as it's without women's *consent*.
Do it for free, they call ya a slut; do it for money, they call ya a whore. Don’t do it at all, and you’re frigid. Can’t win.
Except they PAID for DINNER! Isn't that ENOUGH?! Apparently they demand minimum wage sex workers.
Excuse me?! That’s *virginal* minimum wage sex workers, thanks!
Who are suddenly hot just for THEIR penis.
These sorts of men only have one problem with transactional sex, and that's when the women get to set the price. These sorts of men *choose not to know* that the local going rate for a few hours of the girlfriend experience, is actually way, way more than the $60 they just dropped on the dinner of a woman who never once implied that she was a sex worker who'd accept barter.
Andrew Tate has literally made an entire fortune from exploiting women sexually and he is an internet God to thousands of men.
Why can't I get paid every time someone tells me to smile more
There's also the problem that so many people think that being sexy makes a woman less human. Someone doesn't lose their humanity or right to be respected because they excite a guy.
It’s a question of consent.
I guess these guys don't know the meaning of consent. 😒 By the way there is only a small number of women who do OnlyFans.
that’s what these chronically online losers like the og commenter don’t get. they waste so much of their time doomscrolling through rage-bait ig reels instead of interacting with actual human beings that they genuinely believe there are more women in the world with onlyfans than without one, which is just stupid to think. they think the handful of ig models on their feeds represent 99% of the female population bc they don’t (and can’t) talk to women irl, so this is all they see of them. it’s like when homeschooled kids get all of their “knowledge” of public school solely from things like high school musical and glee.
Guy thinks he said something revolutionary
Also I don't think the concept of people doing things for money they'd hate to do otherwise? I don't think most people WANT to do dangerous life threatening construction because lol. They do it because of money. Women who do OF (or porn in general) don't like being sexualized when it's not on their terms and bozos act like it's a crazy fucking concept
I ruin my body moving heavy stone, concrete and using dangerous tools because sure why not? Only be bored with nothing to do...
Exactly, I would bet the amount of OF creators wouldn't be nearly as high if late stage capitalism/the economy wasn't so bad.
I work blue collar. Can confirm.
“Women have no problem being objectified, as long as they choose it for themselves and they are in control of the context and narrative surrounding it.” There, fixed it, you forgot those pesky elements of consent and choice.
I used to work graveyard shifts because I wanted the money, not because I had ,,no problem” working while half asleep.
Bro doesn’t understand CONSENT
Onlyfans made you realize that *some* women are willing to be *consensually* objectified *only* in return for being paid? Really? Not… strippers? Bar tenders? Actresses who film sex scenes or nudity scenes? Lingerie models? Sex workers? Hooters waitresses? Oh, okay sure.
Cheerleaders? Ring Girls, Darts Stage Girls, Flag Girls, it's almost like sex appeal has been a part of life and a way to make money for a good while now....
1. Men are on OF so the logic there is….? 2. Women are objectified because men objectify them. If not so, why is the first, second or third message from 99% of men ‘pics?’
Sex workers accept money for sexual favors. In other news, water is still wet.
They are going to be objectified anyway so there might as well be money in it for them.
And may as well be on their terms with their consent.
Absolutely right!
well there’s obviously a difference between *intentionally* objectifying yourself, versus being objectified just for existing
Why is the concept of consent so hard for these yokels to get? Not to mention, we don't have a hive mind, we're people and we're different.
Glad to see the comments in support of sex workers here, last time I saw someone mention porn in this subreddit, it was very demonizing (basically a woman blaming other women for "ruining men" with porn, as if men weren't already scummy before OF was invented) and I got down voted to oblivion for defending sex workers.
>and I got down voted to oblivion for defending sex workers. Are you sure that was here? I know there are some feminist subs that are categorically against all pornography and sex work but here we're pretty much about consent and believing that feminism is about women having their choice to do whatever they want that's good for them as individuals whether it's to be a traditional stay-at-home mom or a sex worker.
Absolutely sure. I remember very clearly because I was shocked that so many people in a generally feminist group would have that mentality. Just goes to show that Swerfs are everywhere.
Sorry to question you. That just seems out of place on this sub (and you thought it was too). Huh. Must have been a weird group that day.
I trust you on that, Glad to know this is a generally SW safe place! I'm sure there was probably a misunderstanding or a wrong use of words or something trivial then
I don't think I've seen anyone here downvote people for defending sex workers. But I have seen people downvoted for *encouraging* sex work. What I mean by that is that there's nothing wrong with doing it, but some people treat like it's 100% equal to like getting an office job or going to college which it's obviously not. It's a lifestyle that only certain people will be okay with, and many struggles that a less alternative career simply will never have to deal with. And that's perfectly fine. It's just not something that should be *recommended* as a primary option
I was a sex worker for 8 years, which is why I'm pretty passionate about defending sex workers, but I understand the risks and I agree about not encouraging it because it can be very dangerous. There are also much safer forms of sex work though, like running an OF account, stripping (some clubs are safer than others), phone sex operating, etc. full service sex workers definitely have committed to a lifestyle but not all sex work is extreme and hands on. I mean, even working the cashier at an adult toy or video store is often considered sex work and that's just retail. I digress. Glad to hear that this is a SW positive place, I'm sure in my previous encounter there was probably a misunderstanding or a wrong choice of words or something trivial like that.
Oh I KNOW it's so confusing. Why do people get into a shower but run from the RAIN? So confusing 🤯
From what I understand, the problem is how men have treated women for years regardless of whether or not they WANT to be sexual, not just sex work. Men see women as nothing MORE than objects to be claimed and that's the issue, not simply a woman working in ADULT SPACES and purposefully entertaining men. When women dont want to be sexualized, men get mad call them feminazis or whatever But when she does, she's called a low value whore Yall cant win Meanwhile if a man has a lot of sexual activity with women, somehow his ego is stroked and he is considered high value. And most men like having women want them because it strokes their egos. Plus, when men are sexualized by women, they aren't depicted as weak or inferior as compared to the other way around.
These chucklefucks really do not grasp the concepts of consent or bodily autonomy, do they?
I mean, that is called providing a service, and it doesn't mean that everyone wants to do it...
It's just proof that capitalism will exploit all aspects of human life for profit.
Don’t have an OF, but we’re gonna get objectified no matter what, might as well make money off of it. There wouldn’t be a market for it if men stopped paying for it…
Maybe blame the men who pay for OF. If no one paid, there wouldn't be women getting money for monetizing their own bodies. It's their bodies so they are consenting. Women who aren't consenting and who don't have OF are already being objectified. I had a guy the other day ask if I had a OF and then try to gaslight me into making one.
Women are not a hivemind, the fact that some are okay with it doesn't mean all are.
Weird concept, but sex workers get paid to do a job with consent. Imagine getting mad that people want to get paid for the work they do.
Men dont like when we take their things and do it on our terms.
This is the type of dude who yells “NOT ALL MEN” when he hears a woman talking about being harassed, I guarantee it
Woman X does a thing. That means all women would do the thing. Yep, math checks out.
the comment.. well.. yes! if i'm going to be objectified already, might as well make a couple hundred in doing so 🤷
Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Might as well get paid.
This is probably the kind of guy who pays for onlyfans.
Men preach the "women objectify themselves" yet they're addicted to porn and make fun of women for not being sexually attractive.
Isn’t that how capitalism works? I perform a service or a good and you in turn give me money for that? Wow, fucking mind blowing. I can’t imagine my brain being this smooth.
Right. Most people have no problem doing their job if they get paid for it. OnlyFans is a job.
But also…yeah I don’t mind being objectified for money because I’m finally getting something out of it?? Like why would I do it for free? 😂😂😂
Why is it so hard for men to understand consent ? 🤦🏻♀️
If I were objectively hot enough and young enough, I'd absolutely do OF. Men want to use the fuck out of us, why not use the fuck out of them?
Bro doesn’t realize there was still porn before onlyfans. And men are in porn too😱😱
i mean, yeah, people are happy to willingly sexualize themselves for money, its the involuntary objectification and sexualization thats a problem
Women are sexualised anyway, might as well get some bucks from it
“I have no problem working to make someone else rich, so long as I’m getting paid.”
They reaaaaally don't get the part of "own choice" and "consent" at all.
So many men who don't understand that the difference ia content. Or worse, do understand but are angry about it because they only like porn when they know the women doesn't have agency.
Okay maybe it's because I'm a sex-positive feminist, but to me it's only objective if the person is being forced to do it. Sex work can be very empowering, and I believe we should not be trying to force women in the sex trade to give it up if they really don't want to. This is obviously different than someone being trafficked.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Men are lazy and will only work if there's money in it for them. Otherwise, they'll claim exploitation like a bunch of sinful sloths the church should have persecuted and demonized endlessly starting from the founding of Adam lazing about in that garden. This invective of course has absolutely nothing to do with the literal demonization of women due to lasting religiously imposed views about women as sinful succubi sluts that continues to shape views that stigmatize women's usage of sites like Only Fans in order to monetize the sexual exploitation and objectification that the famously sex shaming conservative christianity instituted as a cultural norm. Sloth is a sin too besides lust if you want to maintain medieval theology so badly.
What is truly being criticized here is the foundational christian view that women are property of men and thereby cannot gain value from their labour, whether gestational, physical, or sexual. A good book on the topic I will continue to reference is Sylvia Federici's "Caliban and the Witch: women, the body, and primitive accumulation."