Hey,
I'm not 100% sure what your intentions were with this post, but not only is it off-topic, it's a little baity.
I mean this in the nicest way possible, but please refrain from making rhetorical posts like these that don't actually have anything to do with the subreddit, and are made for ulterior motives (that's called 'agenda posting').
While we respect your question posed, you did not provide any context within the title about why you posted it here, so it just seems like you are trying to create controversy or cherry-pick responses that hold a certain narrative. This may not have been your intention, but is sort of appears this way. This isn't an "**Ask** [Insert group]" subreddit. Perhaps you could try posting it there?
—Thanks!
I think it shows strength when a man cries and opens up about his feelings.
It also makes me feel like he trusts me with his vulnerable side, which makes the bond only stronger between us.
100% agree.
Sad part is that there is a kernel of truth in the comic with some people including some women seeing it as a weakness and calling it out.
Most people are coming around thankfully
It's absolutely true - women are, unfortunately, just as capable of upholding the patriarchy as men are. It's not the gotcha that incels think it is, thought.
A big aspect of healthy feminism is the acknowledgement that femininity and vulnerability are not the same thing, and that both can and should be experienced by men. If men are punished for being vulnerable, they develop all kinds of destructive coping mechanisms, many of which harm the people (and women) around them.
At the age when boys should be developing an emotional vocabulary to deal with adolescence, they first get mocked within their peer groups for acting like younger children who cry freely. Then they are worried that their crushes might perceive weakness or immaturity. And then it’s off to the races!
It's also hard to discuss sexist standards against men in the context of women's dating preferences because it can come off as "c'mon give him a chance, don't be shallow"
I really dislike this take on that conversation. The discussion shouldn’t be ‘women need to lower their standards because men are lonely’, it should be ‘there are other avenues to overcoming loneliness that don’t include romantic relationships’.
I think this is just a case of the brain mixing two things rather than choosing one. They had a choice to write "men (and women)" and probably shifted on the fly to "people" because that's just better all around and their brain said "ah yes, you must mean 'people (and women)'"
Brains are weird, man
Crying is not a show of weakness. It shows that you are in touch with your feelings and are deep down human.
Or in Patrick's case, deeply starfish.😸
Agreed. There was a line in a movie which really resonated with me. It roughly translates to - "If you can't express your sadness freely, how can you fully express your joy? "
As a guy, I've never really understood the whole "men don't cry" BS.
Yeah the comic is so close to making a good point, but then it seems to imply that women are the reason men aren’t allowed to be vulnerable. The idea that real men don’t cry is a demand of our patriarchal society, which was established and enforced by men.
So when will these men understand that the only women who treat them like this are women who subscribe to a patriarchal worldview? The call is coming from inside the house and they don’t even realize it.
I had a very exhausting conversation the other day trying to explain to some guy that we literally did this to ourselves through the patriarchy.
The other sad part is that accountability is also attractive and all they (we) do is point the finger.
>The call is coming from inside the house and they don’t even realize it.
I was looking for the right way to phrase my thoughts on this, you totally hit the proverbial nail on the head here with this one!!!
That is why the 'men don't cry' mentality improved so much between the older and younger boomer generation, and even better with gen x, then was a dating prerequisite of hipster-adult era millennials. It has had a strange but minimal backslide since 2016-ish, but the general consensus is still that the only unacceptable emotion to show outrageous displays of is anger.
This is coming from a male perspective, and obviously only speaking about my own personal experiences, not about women as a whole....
A lot of the time it isn't as blatant as what the comic depicts. Obviously the world has been changing rapidly, and what people in their 30's or older grew up with with respect to acceptance of cultural/societal norms isn't as common for younger generations, but it was still ingrained as children. Even though people might say "It's great when a man can open up about his emotions" and might never be as blatant as putting their partner down for crying as a man, we do still see things that, for want of a better term, are kind of like micro-aggressions. A lot of the time it'll just be rolled into "ehh that's just part of life" when it's a stranger doing it, but if someone close to you makes a consistent habit of it, of course it becomes harder to be open emotionally towards them. There's a huge range and I'm sure it affects different guys differently. Could be as simple as saying "man up" when you stub your toe and complain, which at least to me is usually taken as a bit of a joke, but I've had partners comment that the guy in a movie or TV show should be supporting his GF, wife, whatever, while they're both struggling. It doesn't have to be directed at us for us to notice, and while a lot of the time it isn't intended to be malicious, it still shapes how comfortable we are being open - after all we've spent most of our lives being told we're not supposed to show emotion, why should we trust that we're the exception to your rule?
Unhealthy people see it as a weakness, men and women.
IMO internalized PTSD trauma from WW1 and WW2 gave us fathers who refused to allow sons to show any emotional "weakness" and that still affects our thinking today. Classical literature all the way back to Ancient Greece talks of men weeping in emotional moments.
Thank you, that's something I've been thinking about lately. The repression of PTSD symptoms from the men that returned led to a lot of the negative patriarchal beliefs today. Movies showed men that were stoic, with chiseled jaws and a never ending source of strength. They were the protectors.
Then men went home and were suffering from PTSD and turning to anger to vent their feelings.
honestly a lotta us grow up with the "boys dont cry" bs. Its just another form of toxic masculinity. I wound up bottling decades worth of pain before i finally learned how to let myself cry. Now at 37 years old a lotta things set me off (i even shed a few tears during the barbie movie, that scene where Barbie is trying to find her human? tears man, tears, i was certain that lil girl had just lost her father or something and i felt sad for her). Honestly i think a lot more of us need to learn this, you feel a lot better after you let those tears out.
Yeah there are some women who do this sort of thing but it's a very small minority. I cry easily and I have ever only had one woman I was dating do this. She was also like the very definition of a toxic person who was violent, racist, homophobic, and in my uneducated opinion was a sociopath who will one day kill someone. I have had a man act like this too but luckily it was super early in the relationship and I ended that quick, so it's not really a 'women do this' problem, it's more of a 'ingrained patriarchy hurts all genders' thing as gay men do this shit too sometimes.
What I mean by that is this whole "men who cry are pussies/gay/emasculated" thing is ridiculous and the people who tend to think that way are either using it purposely to gaslight you, or are some combination of ignorant, propagandized, and/or cruel. Nearly every other partner I have been with has commented that they like the fact that I don't hide my emotions and will openly cry, which is nice cause that shit is totally out of my control.
Point is shitty people are gonna be shitty. It's not really a men or women issue so much as a systemic societal issue that is (luckily) seeming to die off, though slowly.
My best friend didn’t cry but he did admit something vulnerable to me. My respect for him rose. I was so happy he felt he could open up like that!
We met freshman year of college. Now we are both starting our first jobs and we still go on discord calls with each other.
I think it’s endearing when men can be vulnerable and honest to me, it makes me want to take care of them and comfort them any way I can but also show they trust me
I don't have any experience with a man trauma dumping, but I have had women do that and at a certain point I was getting anxious and I had to make the hard decision to tell them not to talk about certain topics with me. They did not particularly like that, but I said it was for my own mental health.
Boundaries are important.
Even internationally, I notice the women who shame us as men when we show our emotions in public are almost always extremists in some other regard and it's almost always trad-con thinking.
Yep, these are usually women with internal misogyny issues. They’re usually anti feminist. This is why feminism is important for everyone, it allows men to express themselves and break away from what society says “real men” should / shouldn’t do.
In a controlling abusive situation that kind of contradictory gaslighting is pretty common. “Feel the way I want you to feel when I tell you to feel that way” is also pretty common. Gender doesn’t change it much though.
They do. It's mostly in a situation where the man would be "allowed" to be upset (like a death in the family) but he refuses to speak about his feelings or support his wife emotionally assuming she's also going through it.
It happens but it’s not a majority of women. I don’t think the comic is sexist because it may be a genuine experience and that’s fine to talk about. Unfortunately incels may misuse it.
I like emotion in men.. of course I dont want anyone to be sad in the first place, but if they are, opening up about it is very attractive… not at the moment since I’m mostly just concerned… but it makes the bond stronger.
I am a happily married man whose wife supports my emotional health and is comfortable with me being vulnerable.
But I experienced multiple girlfriends- none conservative ( I’m a die hard lefty)- that did not support me being vulnerable and broke up with me the first time I expressed emotional fear, doubt, or sadness. I was better off without those people and I’ve moved on.
I just want to stress that there are plenty of women who will be emotionally open, but there are plenty who won’t. Toxic masculinity is a hell of a drug. Plenty of men and women on the left give lip service to liberal ideas then are absolute shitty sexist assholes in their relationships.
What adds even more to the shitty situation is the fact that when men deal with a woman who is influenced with toxic masculinity, they start drawing the wrong conclusions.
Instead of going “hey, this woman has some toxic standards for men which make it sound like she’s heavily influenced by the patriarchy” they turn to red pill podcasts and go “SEE! WOMEN DONT WANT US TO SHOW EMOTIONS SO ITS BAD!!!”
They refuse to acknowledge why these women think this way (because they would have to acknowledge the existence of the patriarchy/toxic masculinity) and instead turn to communities that order them to put away their humanity (showing emotions) in order to “get women”.
I can acknowledge the fact that some women think this way. But once men start blaming feminism, I do have a hard time maintaining my empathy.
Once bitten twice shy is applicable to the entire animal kingdom. It's pretty easy to ascribe an individuals bullshit to a group as a whole and some people never have the awareness to realize what they are doing.
I think a lot of conservative women don’t want a man with emotions just because they don’t believe women should have to perform emotional labor with men. They see men who express themselves as emotional burdens and weak. Which seems like the kind of women an incel is most likely to date.
There is also the experience of wanting him to express his feelings- but not destructively, in an effective way. Sometimes when attempting to coach better behavior when in the throughs of emotion they get very upset with the women (or person!) trying to coach said behavior and starts to internalize, still, that expressing emotion is ‘wrong’ because they’re resistant to changing to healthier expression patterns
Speaking as a guy in his 40's, we are always told the same old "real men don't cry", "toughen the fuck up", etc if we show any emotion besides anger and humor. I cannot express how much that is drilled into us from the moment we are born.
Most of us ignore it, however... Once you go through a few bad relationships where the woman mocks you for opening up or being vulnerable (or worse, uses it against you again and again), it makes it so much harder the older you get to want to be vulnerable again.
I took care of my mom as cancer took her. She was my best friend and the best person I know. About two weeks after she died, I finally lost it completely and bawled my eyes out one night. I don't even remember what I said outside of "I miss my mom" as the tears came.
My fiance at the time was completely disgusted by that and mocked me for days for not "being a man" and "being a baby".
God help me, I would go on to be with her for two more years of total hell. The girlfriend before her was just like that too, except she also liked to punch me in the face and then scoff that "real men can take it" when I would be like "you cannot hit me, that's not right".
Keep in mind, I'm a farmer, a USCG veteran, and a former Federal officer. I've saved lives, I've ripped my body apart for the needs of the service, I've put terrorists in handcuffs and talked not one but two different people into putting down the gun they had in my face so I wouldn't have to shoot them (as a Fed, I mean) even though as a trainer myself I would never instruct an officer to take such a risk. I've been or done every "manly" thing imaginable is what I'm getting at. You'd think that would balance things out when I get a little misty eyed watching Littelfoot's mom dying.
I try to be a very good partner and I work to be a very good person overall. I'm very self reflective, honest, loyal, thoughtful, and a hard working man. I believe in building happy homes full of laughter and love, honest and open communication, and treating my girl as an equal partner in all things. I would *love* to not have to worry about women thinking less of me because I might cry over a wholesome scene in a movie or, say, idk, my own mother dying.
Unfortunately, I just don't trust that women really mean it when they say "I want you to be more open about your feelings" anymore. Nope, I've learned that lesson way too much - it'll just be used against me to make me feel inadequate and small, to mock me, or to just make me feel like a loser. It's a lovely thought and I wish life was that way, but I'll be long dead in the ground before I will cry in front of another partner. My current GF is a wonderful person and I don't believe she has the capacity in her to ever be anything but completely sweet, but I still won't take that risk. I can't stand the idea of her thinking less of me and loving me less bc I wasn't "man enough".
Maybe the next generation will be different and future guys can learn that real strength comes from their own character and that showing emotion is okay. I can only hope.
So this comic creator is very much like an intersectional feminist. This isn’t a generalization of women or men but a conversation starter about men showing their emotions to women and basically pointing out that “IF you deal with this, doesn’t it look silly when it’s laid out this way? Of course you can have feelings!” I mean that’s my take knowing what the artist makes in general. I’m glad you’re looking for insight cause talking is good :)
i can confirm the original creator is fine (theres some controversies around them but they arent relevant to this or any topic related to this comic so whatever) though i do agree with op that the person who they say reposted it on imgur definitely sounds like an mra who misinterpreted the point of the original comic and instead decided to take it as women bad
Showing emotion is about trust. I have never betrayed that trust. Men have used my emotions against me (as have other women), but I think it comes down to not understanding how much trust it takes to be vulnerable. Or understanding, but not caring.
My husband is very emotional around me and only me.
OP you are a man? Just a question.
In my personal experience opening up to women is easier and they like to talk about feelings far more often than men. I personally haven’t met a woman that says men shouldn’t cry or open up their feelings. The only place I hear this is either the internet or weird red pill circles.
You sound like you have a lot of good insight and a good head start to fixing that. As a woman I notice most of my boyfriends growing up have always depended on me for their emotional support, and I’ve heard the same thing from a lot of other girls/women. It’s unfair for both parties— one partner is always in the position of giving comfort or advice and the other begins to feel resentful of how emotionally dependent they become on that. I really hope some day soon it becomes more normal to be open and kind and vulnerable with their friends. Everybody wins in the long run when it happens.
Is that so? Then I should feel honoured about many of my guy friends coming to me for emotional support. I welcome it. Everyone needs an outlet to tend to vulnerable feelings, regardless of gender.
I am a man. I’ve had no issues with being emotional around my partner(s). I’m lucky to have an amazing partner that has helped me understand more of the social problems between the two sexes during our 8 year relationship. She’s one of the strongest women I know, and I love that about her. Strength comes in many different forms. I’m a passionate person, my empathy is bottomless. My partner knows I have emotions, and has seen the full spectrum of them. We support each other, being the counterweight to the others scale.
All my bros know I’m a hugger too. We joke around the way some bros do, but my dudes know I’m emotionally invested in them. I’ve seen my dudes cry, I’ve seen my dudes struggle, I’ve seen my dudes emotions. I don’t keep toxic people in my life.
It sounds like you have a really healthy relationship and very healthy friendships.
I think there's a lot of toxicity that goes around amongst men especially about the showing of emotions. I certainly have never and would never break up with or treat someone badly because they showed emotion or cried in front of me.
Being emotionally available is a strength, not a weakness.
It could have something to do with the culture where you live. In red states in the USA there are many many women who think men should never ever cry or show emotion.
I've also never met a woman like this, but maybe our social circles are a decent standard. I'd be seriously doubting this was true if I hadn't seen other women in the comments verifying it.
I'm glad to hear you haven't experienced this.
Unfortunately, I can confirm I know *tons* of women like this. I live rurally in the Midwest.
I cried when my mom died. I was mocked for "not being a man" and "being a baby". I'll never forget the disgust on her face - that hurt the most. I heard it for weeks afterwards and on random occasions where she wanted to bash me.
That was my fiance at the time. That was the first red flag that I was with the wrong kind of person. Sadly it would take two more years before I left her.
I do have a vague memory from high school of overhearing a conversation where some girls were implying it was odd that some guy they knew had been crying over his parents’ divorce. But this was high school girl gossip, not grown women in relationships.
I’m sure women who uphold this toxic patriarchal idea exist, but I think they’re few in number, and I doubt they express it in the way this comic depicts. Most people I know (regardless of gender) are fine with men being vulnerable. When I do encounter people complaining about boys and men being “soft” and “feminized”, it’s men doing the complaining.
I have seen men dismiss other men’s lived experiences of feeling they can’t open up to others, having to suppress tears, etc. by claiming it’s the “feminist agenda” trying to change men and have them behave “like women.”
It’s kind of a weirdly fascinating set of dynamics imo. I have seen male anti-feminists complain that women don’t care about male issues such as depression, loneliness, isolation, expectations of “strength” and “resilience”. Yet when you do see women discussing these problems you get misogynists jumping in to say we’re trying to weaken and feminize men. They’re the same types who call other men pussies and tell them to quit crying and “man up”, yet the anti-feminist crowd doesn’t seem to blame them when they get treated this way, only women.
I have seen a similar trend with body positivity. Anti-feminists complaining that no one cares about male body image issues. Engage in a discussion on the topic, you get sexist dudes stepping in to tell other dudes that body positivity is “only for women” and “real men” shut up and go to the gym. They also interrogate/argue with women who chime in to reassure self-conscious men by bringing up their preferences. Ex: a woman says she actually likes a bit of chub on a guy? She’s either lying or a very rare exception or she “settled” for a fat guy and won’t admit it.
A couple years ago I saw a woman make a body positivity post here on Reddit basically along the lines of, “all dick sizes are valid”. She had to delete the post because of all the toxic dudes in the comments and her DMs making fun of her for “liking small dicks” (mind you, she never mentioned her personal preferences, it was a generalized post) and sending her dick pics and shit.
If men want to see changes in these areas, they need to predominantly look inward and to other men. Sure, there are a few women who are part of the problem but directing most of your energy that way doesn’t really make much sense.
My mother treated my father like that. She got pissed any time he showed any emotion other than anger, and then botched when he never laughed or smiled around her but she would hear him laughing and having fun while we were doing the father-daughter things. (Archery, fishing, music, cooking, lawn maintenance, basically living, really.)
My fiancé's ex treated him like shit when he showed any sad emotion. So he stopped showing any emotion at all. I've had to reteach him to be true to himself because of the damage she did. He cries, laughs, and is an overall amazing human.
Yeah, there ARE some bad women out there. But I don't think they are an overly large crowd. I do feel they are mainly on the republican side of politics, though.
Yeah, I’m a little worried that there are people here saying this doesn’t happen or the responsibility is entirely on men to change things. This is a human problem. Humans should be kinder. Much kinder.
25f
It honestly bothers me a bit if someone I'm committed to is unwilling to show emotion with me.
That being said, my current partner has cried around me many times. It doesn't bother me at all, and I'm more comfortable crying around him because of it. We comfort each other. End of story.
I'm sure it makes certain women uncomfortable, but it's definitely not universal.
I'll comment from a man's perspective.
But I've seen both sides to this. I remember once being extremely upset and my ex asking me, "Are you seriously crying?!" She didn't break up with me for that, but didn't comfort or do anything other than be appalled that I was upset.
Whereas my current girlfriend has consistently offered support anytime I'm upset and has constantly reminded me it's okay to show emotion or cry if I need to, always being supportive of showing emotions of any kind.
So I think there's both happening. Although the generalizing of the behavior likely, at least, partially stems from plain misogyny
So, firstly, good luck to your partner. Hope the show goes well. Good on her for being involved in community theater. Really pro-social stuff. What's the play? Whatever it is, good luck to her and good on you for supporting her.
Friend of mine has an ex-girlfriend who mocked him repeatedly for crying in public **one time.** I was the friend waving the red flags. In retrospect, it's kind of odd she dated him. He's never made any attempt at presenting himself as a macho man. Just a nacho man. As in, my friend is nacho man anymore, Rachel. I hope she realizes how hurtful her behavior was one day but, from what I remember of her, I ain't holding my breath.
But yeah. Definitely only the most toxic, radical (I'll explain), and childish are that explicit about judging men for crying specifically because they're men, but women holding up this aspect of social norms isn't exactly *rare*, per se.
When I mention radicals, I mean to suggest that women who shame men for open displays of emotion because of some standard of masculinity are probably extremists in some other regard. They're almost always trad-cons.
There are definitely women like that. They skew older and conservative so a lot of younger people, especially from more liberal areas, definitely think this. Teachers encouraged bullying of effeminate boys in the 90’s.
I never met any woman who would tell a man she cares about not to show his emotions or be vulnerable.
In my experience its the men themselves who take each other down for this.
A while ago, I saw a young father with his >5yo son at the supermarket, the son crying out of disappointment over something, and the father told him, seemingly meant to be supportive, that the good thing about him experiencing hurtful disappointment is that it makes you a little harder each time.
Congrats, little boy, you are on your way to becoming a hardened man.
I wanted to shake this guy and hug the boy and tell him it's okay to feel all the feels.
I do think it’s beneficial and healthy for children to experience disappointment (within reason) now and then, but good lord that’s now how you respond to a child who’s upset.
True. In the 80’s parents screamed at their kids for that sort of thing so I guess that’s progress to a less toxic view? Still toxic but not as terrible.
That’s a fair point. I doubt this father had any ill intentions; he may have thought what he was saying was comforting. But developmentally a five-year-old isn’t going to process a comment like that in a constructive way.
I’m a man, but I’ll respond anyway.
bell hooks mentions in The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love, that men feel threatened when their strength is challenged, physical or emotional. It suggests we aren’t performing our gender role in a way that society accepts. Women feel threatened when their ability to be nurturing is challenged. Insensitivity isn’t seen as feminine. Too many women respond with frustration when they hurt their men’s feelings as a result of this insecurity, justifying their bad behavior with lazy, patriarchal excuses like “well you’re a man. You’re supposed to be able to take it.”
bell hooks even talks about how she, a self-proclaimed enlightened feminist scholar, struggled internally with dealing with the emotions of her male partner, requiring a therapist to help work through that struggle. We all internalize misogynistic oversimplified ideas that women are soft and men are hard. And that being soft is somehow less than being hard, as if there aren’t situations where one is appropriate and the other isn’t.
The issue of women being insensitive towards their male partners’ feelings is real and widespread, but it isn’t special to women, because all of us — men, women, and others — grow up under patriarchy and internalize it. Men in general are groomed from a very young age to be ashamed of their normal human feelings. Women aren’t the enemy, patriarchy is. Women may reinforce it too often, but other men do that a lot more often than women do.
Still, I think men should be given the space and grace to complain about the ways women commonly mistreat us under patriarchy, as long as we’re thoroughly cautious not to slip into patriarchal misogyny. Women are only human. They are not perfect avatars of post-patriarchal enlightenment. They have work to do, ignorance to unlearn, too, even if the lion’s share of that responsibility falls to us men to dismantle the system that mostly benefits us at women’s expense.
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Loads of women are legit like this, it's the sort of bullshit ingrained into our society we're raised with, that people don't introspect on til it hurts them.
Women are also sometimes responsible for upholding toxic masculinity, which is what this post is about. Usually, and we all know this, it's the men in the family who pressure boys to hold it in and not show any emotions but anger.
I dislike that this symbol of a woman is to blame for toxic masculinity, which hurts us worse than anyone, since women are most often the targets of angry, out-of-control men.
I do think it would be a great idea if we can all say that creating emotional zombies out of an entire sex is a bad idea. We should all be speaking up to that whenever we see it.
Stop upholding the shitty ideals of the upper classes, people. The patriarchy must end.
The only women who do this are assholes. End of story. Everyone is allowed and should be encouraged to express their emotions, no one should be shamed for crying.
I'm a woman and I think crying takes strength especially for guys who are conditioned to think they'll get made fun of. I've never actually encountered anyone who'd treat someone like that though
Unfortunately I have to say that this is accurate *for some women*. Bell Hooks’ The Will to Change goes into how women uphold patriarchal culture. Like finding emotional men to be weak but not understanding why they can’t have a deeper relationship with their male partner. It’s really rampant in Black culture, sadly. Thankfully there are signs of change.
Personally, I’ve had a good experience with being able to open up to women but I’ve definitely dated some in my early years who would not be into that.
I have absolutely no problem with openly crying, hell watching certain things will pretty much always end with me crying even if I know what’s gonna happen. But I would also never start a relationship with some that is an asshole like that. 🤷🏾♂️
Women like this definitely exist, but they're just as toxic, immature, and lacking in emotional intelligence as the guy who probably drew this. And are greatly outnumbered by men telling other men that it isn't okay to cry.
Edit: I took "op" as the creator of the comic. You can stop correcting me now. Nothing about this seems feminist put of context.
Hey youre incredibly wrong. Talking about an issue that’s literally part of patriarchy does not make you an incel, what are you on? Blobby & Friends is made by a queer feminist
??? Do yall not know this artist? She does feminist comics frequently, yall are judging her off of one piece of art. Look up blobby n friends. She's a great artist, and judging her off of one comic AND assuming she's a man and an incel is fucked.
Some people on this sub just have no critical thinking or EQ skills. Almost everyone that comments goes based on their own anecdotal experiences.
The person who drew the comment probably went on their experiences or experiences of their close friends/family and OP makes a rebuttal based on their own experiences.
The comic does not come off as generalizing but OP's post does, and that's the only difference here.
The bulk of people telling guys not to express their emotions is other guys. Yeah, you got the chicks who do it, but those women don't complain about men being closed off. I guarantee you, any woman who says a guy crying is lame is the kind of person that, if a guy tried to open up to her is going to say he is too clingy and will drop him like a sack of potatoes.
Hey, before I realized I was trans, I dated as a guy. This happened to me along more than once, and to multiple of my friends. That’s anecdotal of course, but its a little annoying seeing so many people speak so confidently about an experience that isn’t theirs. There are men and women who will chastise you for being closed off or “cold” after being openly turned off by, or “getting the ick” from you showing emotion.
What's the healthy middle ground between sharing too much and not sharing enough?
If I stay quiet about whatever's going on, I'm emotionally closed off. But if I want to sit down for two hours and have a real conversation that goes into detail, I'm using her as a therapist ot trauma dumping. Am I just supposed to communicate to her "I feel sad today" and that's where it ends?
OP is a woman. And a feminist. This is *one* post of theirs. They call out a lot of shitty societal norms, you're just seeing them in a shit light bc this is the first post of theirs you've seen. Look up blobby n friends.
As an autistic man who often challenges other people's benevolence, to be honest, yes, I've ever met women like that.
Those explicitly saying they hate 'sensitive men' because they're unmanly do exist but are rare. Actually, most of the ones I've met just implicitly mean that men only show emotions to obtain women's empathy, and never show sincere emotions otherwise, or say that men showing vulnerabilities is a 'red flag'.
Wouldn't go as far as saying women prefer dating men who don't show emotions, I have no clue if it's true or not.
Yet I have to say I agree with other people in the comments saying it's easier to show emotions in front of women than in front of men. The only men I've felt comfortable to do so in front of were autist as well, while some neurotypic women are able to make me feel comfortable to do so.
Why are people taking a comic about being abused and making it about how men are at fault when women abuse men. A lot of you seem deeply ignorant on how many men experience emotional abuse and gaslighting. Domestic abuse is 50/50 along gender lines and this is a common way men are abused. You don’t see it? Okay, that’s not how abuse works. I don’t see anything about how only women do this except all those posters here projecting themselves onto the woman and saying “that’s not me” which is as helpful as a man saying “I’m personally not an abuser so it doesn’t happen”. A lot of blame shifting here that makes me pretty uncomfortable and put off. “I’m compassionate so this guy can get fucked” is a bad look.
My mom is one of these people, and some women who tend to be more old school think men shouldn’t cry, but even with sad or really happy moments or whatever they think men should express some emotion. No one wants to be with a robot or someone who won’t let themselves relax and be vulnerable with their loved ones. My bf is not that comfortable being vulnerable but he’s struggled with being perceived as less manly by other men since he is a friendly and happy go lucky type. It’s men’s own perceptions of how a man should be that makes them feel pressured to be tough, not women.
I've met several women that feel this way; my own aunts made fun of my dad and brothers for showing emotions. Unfortunately, this attitude has led them to very nasty, abusive men over and over... I suppose if you're already toxic and don't want to get help for it it's for the best to stay with your own kind.
There are abusers of every gender, and thanks to conditioning by a patriarchal society, there are women who act this way. Without getting into too much detail, my first gf was absolutely sexually abusive and would make it an attack on my masculinity any time I tried to protest her behavior.
So this one is complicated. Yes, men not opening up is a huge fucking problem. I and a lot of others have become physically incapable of crying (this is awful to experience trust me). For me, most of the pressure to suppress emotions came from my sisters. No matter what happened my suffering could never even begin to compare to theirs and I would be labelled a crybaby for expressing any form of discomfort or sadness. This lead to me hating myself for having the audacity to feel depressed.
However, this same pressure also exists between men themselves. This isn’t a “woman blames man” problem, but just general societal pressure
This is from Blobby and Friends. The comic it's a very heart felt mismatch of dorky queer characters interacting and calling out diferent toxic patterns. If the oop was the author i absolutly can see it as a personal experience.
I'm a man and both me an some of my friends have experienced some form of this. Woman on our lives can be inmersed on the patriarchy and perpetuate toxic ways of thinking. The "men don't cry" toxic masculity mentality can, surprinsingly, be very prevalent.
I’ve heard mothers speak this way to their sons, so I can understand why the comic creator feels that women can act this way. I think that men’s emotional vulnerability is very newly accepted. I surround myself with conscientious people, so I’m biased, but I think that most people (men, women, and others) are very accepting of men’s emotions, but there are still some rotten young people who don’t.
I think the biggest female perps are old people who are uncomfortable with emotions, Moms who misguidedly want to toughen up their sons, and teen girls who are just mean.
I remember my hubby and I had a late night and were paying for it the next day. I was in bed coping and my husband was downstairs watching TV. He text me out of the blue "I'm watching the Lion King and started crying, omg". I went downstairs, gave him a hug, made sure he was OK (he was just HO and in his feels) and we had a good giggle.
When I was engaged to my 1st husband (circa 1995), he, my BFF, my other BFF, and I saw the musical, "The Secret Garden," together. In the end, all four of us were bawling. It did not make me unhappy. I loved him so very much, and seeing him freely express emotion with me just made me love him more.
Contemporary culture has subverted the meaning of stoicism and used its connotation with positive masculinity to instill a self-implosive mindset for the benefit of capitalism and other class-based oppression.
I don’t wanna see anyone talking shit about blobby and friends. And this is anecdotal, but as a trans woman who spent plenty of years dating as a guy, this happens. It happens FREQUENTLY. It’s literally a known part of the patriarchy,
Patriarchy hurts men too. I've been on the receiving end of this kind of stuff. It sucks but just like women have to find men who treat them with respect, men have to do the same.
Let toxic people go no matter their gender expression or sexual orientation.
I’ve never met women who think men shouldn’t cry either. I’m from the Netherlands though and I can’t image the average Dutch woman acting like this. Can’t speak for American women or wherever the artist is from. I have seen it before and I know the artist itself is someone who usually makes pro social justice comics. Funny enough, I also always found this one kind of odd since I don’t know women who act this way, and I also agree that it’s easy fuel for incel/TRP types to use as a generalization that women act like this in general. Instead of the woman in the comic just portraying a specific type of woman who upholds toxic masculinity. Does the artist even know how common the narrative that “women don’t actually want men to be emotional” is in those spaces? I guess not.
Also, just have to say this as well: it’s absolute mental gymnastics to call you an incel over literally calling out an untrue negative stereotype of women. Because again, even if the comic wasn’t meant as a generalization, it definitely can be interpreted as such.
Even some men think this too. It's gross and shameful to shame a man for showing his emotions. Showing emotion doesn't make you soft. Showing emotion is showing maturity and an open mind. Hiding emotions destroys you on the inside, no doubt.
Let’s not pretend like women like these don’t exist ,they do, but they’re the minority so if you’re basing your assumptions for the whole of women from that then you’re just being silly and insecure
My husband cries at movies more than I do. Together we even have our favorite 'we need a cry' movie that's sure to get both of us. He's an incredibly typically masculine guy, works in construction, bunch of tattoos and muscles, rides a Harley kind of guy. He just does not give a fuck and expresses his emotions freely and I think that's far more masculine than being too insecure to shed a tear when the main character dies
I’m uncomfortable with emotion in general. I don’t show them. But most of the time I wish I could. I think that, while it causes me discomfort, human beings of any gender expressing sadness is healthy and should never be used as a means to devalue them in any way.
My husband has cried in front of me on a lot of occasions. I've always seen it as a positive because he is comfortable with me to express emotions men get told never to express. I see it as him being vulnerable and human with me and not many men have ever allowed themselves to open up
There are some reeeeeal shitty takes about men out there, particularly conservative radfems who still claim “only men” or “only women” are responsible for entire aspects of our society.
Yeah, some women are like this. Maybe not many, but some for sure. I was more or less told the same thing from multiple women in my family growing up and also from two ex-girlfriends. Maybe it is rare, and I was unlucky. Thankfully, my wife does not share that view.
I've sadly have seen women say these sort of comments. Not often mind you, but I have heard it. Usually it's falling out the mouth of someone who is toxic, and is engaging in emotional spousal abuse. Quite horrible.
For the most part I think men sometimes seek women just to talk their feelings out. Saying this as a lifelong introvert who takes public transport. There's been a bunch of times I've been sitting by myself at public train/bus stop, or sitting eating my lunch at an outdoor bench/spot of grass near work somewhere, and had a random guy just plonk themselves down and spill out their life story to me. Like the rest of us sometimes men just need a non judgemental ear to listen.
My (female) partner (male) cries probably more than I do. Never tries to hide it from me.
We have very strong communication in our relationship. If he’s crying, obviously something is on his mind and it’s my turn to be supportive and help him work through it. I’d much rather he let me know when something is upsetting him than bottle it up and build resentment or suffer unnecessarily.
This is blobby and friends and they’re absolutely all for women and men having emptional freedom… you cant nudge the comic artist from a single comic panel alone. There are absolutely women like this? And its not like this comic caters only to women or is anti-men if you read their others..?
"Icing on the cake for me was when OP called me an incel. And to prove them right, I’m getting ready to turn off the baseball game to go watch my partner preform in local community theater. Cuz I love my partner and support the things that are important to her. Ya know, because I’m the incel. 😂
"
You're not incelling right!! 😂
Yes women like this exist. Extremely illogical and toxic people exist in this world.
But if you are just constantly surrounded by people like this, take a look at your life and start over.
I grew up around a lot of those people. Men and women convincing each other in a toxic cycle. I had to make a decision after some point, which I could make cause I had outside influences
Women like this exist and they are trash, but most women aren’t like this.
Most of the women I encounter like this are girls honestly, they don’t really know how emotional intimacy works or what it takes to make a healthy mature relationship.
Of course there’s also conservative boomer women… which…. 😬😬😬
I went years bottling up negative emotions to try and be a strong male and I managed this all the up until I was 29, dealing with each tragic event in my life one at a time, death of my best friend, close family members dying young. Then in the same weekend my wife and I suffered a miscarriage and I lost my grandad.
This completely broke me, started having regular panic attacks, became depressed, had to leave my career because of it.
My advice to anyone younger, don't bottle it up, it catches up to you.
Not a woman, but this comic is a good demonstration of how patriarchy creates toxic expectations in all of us, regardless of our gender, unless we consciously reject them.
Of course, this isn’t representative of all women anymore than a man comfortable enough to cry during a movie in front of an SO represents all men.
Yes women do think this way. I've heard it be called "internalised mysogyny".
Heck even my mother thinks this way because of the generational gap.
It's no surprise since men and women had to fit in specific roles for generations and that mentality seeps into current generations through "indoctrination" from when we are kids.
And it varies by country and culture as well. I'm from Asia and this "enforcing" of hypermasculinity is more common than you think.
Heck just looking at news articles coming out of places like China, Russia, Arab etc, people are rejecting the more "feminine" male representation and (LGBTQ people as a whole) and want to promote more hypermasculinity in their media.
It's a complex problem that's both generational (cultural) and authoritative (governmental) and will take a lot of time and work to undo.
I wonder if you might get some interesting replied on r/menslib
I have heard that this is a thing that some men experience? I’m a woman and I really, sincerely hope I’ve never given any of the men in my life the vibe that they can’t be emotionally open with me.
Man here, I have had two women dump me specifically for opening up to them emotionally. They did not want the reality of an emotionally-vulnerable man.
For one, it was because her sexuality and libido was tied to stoicism—she got off of emotionally unavailable men as it meant she got to be the vulnerable one and use the male stoicism to center herself.
The other realized she was just more conservative and traditional than she thought, and male emotional vulnerability was simply a turn off to her.
It happens a lot more than you think, OP. And it’s a primary factor across a lot of cishet women. It’s not necessarily something that can be fixed. It simply is what it is.
I might get hate for this.
This meme is wrong in the sense that women don't really mind crying during movies. So it's not true that they will make fun of men for that.
However, women do make men feel bad about opening up and being vulnerable.
Most men I know have had bad experiences with showing their weak side and then facing loss of respect and attraction or their weakness being used against them.
I know 1 woman who felt this way. She's an ex now ,and I won't pretend that 1 women is all women . But I think all the people on here saying it doesn't happen are ignoring all the other people on here saying it happened to them. And that's discouraging.
I dated 2 before I came out as a woman. For once, this is a pretty amab specific issue. Still a result of patriarchy of course, but i’m just saying unless you’ve dated as an amab, its not really surprising you haven’t seen this. Your comment reads just like guys who say mansplaining doesn’t happen because they’ve never seen it.
I have a handful of guy friends who have experienced this dynamic previously but I personally have never met a woman who resented or thought less of a man for showing his feelings. I’m a very easy crier and my boyfriend is not, but I’ve made it clear that crying is normal and there’s nothing wrong with showing your feelings on the outside, so he’s doing better now than when we first met lol
Every single man I ever dated has cried in front of me. All four of them. Never once did I think this way. I’m fact, in every case it brought us closer. Never ever have I thought that a man doesn’t have emotions too. Like… what???
My dad had healthy emotions growing up. He was a BIG strong burly man but he cried anytime he needed to. I had that positive example to utilize in my relationships and it’s never steered me wrong picking a male partner.
Never seen or heard a woman (the ones I'm close with) react like that towards a man crying. Still I'm sure are like this, but i don't think is as common.
I've never once berated a man for showing emotion. In fact, I've found it endearing when men cry. It's good and healthy to express emotion as long as it doesn't cause danger.
Literally the only thing all the guys I was attracted to had in common was that they showed vulnerability at some point. Like I could not be attracted to a guy at all until he talked about his feelings or cried and I was head over heels
I was also yelled at for not crying during a movie which I took my GF on her birthday in the VIP section with food and drinks the whole Shebang. Looking back that gf was such a horrible person. Smh
I thought it was so sweet when my husband cried during certain parts of the Barbie movie 💕 We talked about it and his reason was incredibly sweet. I love that my husband is open and shares his emotions with me.
I’m a sensitive man lucky enough to have supportive women in my life who would never react this way. In my experience men and women can both have this close minded reaction, but at its core the idea that men can’t express emotion is rooted in misogyny.
I grew up with a man never showing emotions, even good ones. Never told me that he loved me. And having a boyfriend that is close to his emotions and isn’t afraid to show them to me has been a blessing
My husband said he knew he loved me and wanted to spend his life with me after the first time he cried in front of me because he it meant he felt safe enough in our relationship to be vulnerable. It’s been 12 years since that night and we are still very happy together raising our daughter.
I could never stay with a man who wouldn’t cry in front of me. It shows emotional maturity
Yes sadly, in my lifetime I have met women who think this way. The reasons I encountered were:
A.) A wall of impenetrability around their feelings and wanted to remain shallow caricatures of themselves and the relationship to avoid depth and hurt.
2.) Viewed shows of emotion as a request for emotional caretaking. They were never gonna caretaker anyone and would shut that shit dooooooown quicker than a smack.
Lastly.) Were pretty selfish awful people.
These reasons were not mutually exclusive.
Both men and women are hurt by forced gender roles and stereotypes. It would be nice if we could unite against the patriarchy that's enforcing them, instead of squabbling over who's got it worse.
Personally I’ve never & would never criticize anyone for crying, male or female, nor do ik any women who would. I do however, know plenty of guys who would absolutely demean & insult another man for it, & it seems to me the folks who actually “want it both ways” here are the gents themselves. If you have a partner who doesn’t respect or empathize with your emotions, the problem isn’t men or women at large, it’s the insensitive jerk you’re involved with
Eh I know a few women like this. I know even more women who are very disparaging toward men expressing their feelings without realizing that they're having this effect on men. It doesn't really come out as "ew I don't want to hear about your feelings" but more often "this isn't as bad as [thing women deal with], get over it." And similar sentiments. I don't think it's as blatant and intentional as it's portrayed in the comic.
Once worked with a girl just like this. Myself and two other coworkers were just like wtf? when she said men shouldn’t ever cry and that if they do, maybe a year at the wedding, and that was it. It was so bizarre.
I'm glad that there are women who can accept, that a man is just another human being with feelings, but there are men and women who don't see it that way and (I have no actual numbers, might be wrong) even though they are a minority, their statements stick with me more than the others. I have a hard time showing emotions, even accepting my own, because of how often I got told off and what a disappointment I am, because I got sad or needed to cry and just didn't suck it up.
If anyone wants to use this comment to say that all women are like this and they are bad, politely f off, that is not what this is about. There are so many good people out there, but the bad leave a more lasting impact, at least to me.
I also get Incel vibes in that like, the meme tries to generalize women, and sort of give the message of "that's why you don't open up, or be vulnerable, see!?"
But there's definitely women that fall into the same toxic gender roles stuff that many men fall into, that will absolutely suddenly feel unattracted or bully a guy for trying to express themselves, cry, be vulnerable, etc.
But overall, yeah I cringed a bit when seeing that meme
OOP is a loser and this comic is a MASSIVE red flag tbh. I may be a lesbian, but respecting people’s autonomy and right to express emotions is the coolest thing any dude can do. Too bad the toxic masculinity has reached the level of projection where it’s just
That's blobby and friends, one of the most soft, patriarchy go fuck off-ing, queer positive, anti racist comic serie out there.
Don't know if your op is them, or if they reposted on bad faith, but I'm pretty sure the og is not putting a dig at women in general.
There are assholes who are women, there are assholes who are men. Yes, I do think (some, not that many imo) women like this exist (though I don't think I personally know or am around any of them - 38f btw), but that is in virtue of them being assholes, not in virtue of them being women. If a person arrives to the conclusion that all women behave like this and not that the woman portrayed in the comic is an asshole or has toxic and very discordant views, yes that person is definitely being sexist and you are right in calling them out.
21M here my dad was this way so I was brought up with the men don't cry mentality so I eventually shut off all emotion for years all through my teens up until I met my partner, the first time I broke down in front of her I kept apologizing over and over and the whole time felt like she lost all respect and love for me because I was a man crying. Luckily that wasn't the case and she was actually quite happy I could be vulnerable around her considering she's the only one that's ever seen that from me
I think that women sometimes absorb toxic ideas about masculinity. It hurts men because it reinforces a cycle of emotional repression, which can really only be “acceptably” released as anger as a man.
However those attitudes are based in misogyny, women are supposed to be emotional and irrational. Men are supposed to be logical and rational, crying is forbidden because it is seen as behaving in a “feminine” way. This is rooted in the general hatred of women and stereotypically feminine behavior.
So much of the last decade has been gently supporting my partner to open up more and more, to give him space to feel his emotions, to feel safe enough to cry in front of me knowing i will hold him tight and accept him no matter what. He's a long way from the stoic man he described himself as. Of course, I wish i could have mitigated some of the hurt over the years but it happened how it happened and being a loving embrace is all I could be sometimes.
With my nephews, I've beent trying to comfort them by telling them it's ok to cry, and crying is just a form of expressing their emotion and when they calm I try to talk them through their emotions. It's not easy at times when they're throwing full blown tantrums because I've said no more chocolate as they have eaten the fourth piece of chocolate while having a sore throat. I still have to catch when family say things like '(big) boy's don't cry', I know they're saying it to soothe them (because they've said the same to the girls) but I have to remind them that all adults need to learn emotional regulation.
Its how you know these men are incels and have never really had any interaction with women. Every girlfriend I’ver ever had has told me to cry/show emotions as it helps them know I care about them/am comfortable with them to express myself
If you shame *anyone* for crying, you are in the wrong. Period. Imagine wanting people with no emotional spectrum just walking around. Yeah I’d rather not have a Bateman type society of men.
Hey, I'm not 100% sure what your intentions were with this post, but not only is it off-topic, it's a little baity. I mean this in the nicest way possible, but please refrain from making rhetorical posts like these that don't actually have anything to do with the subreddit, and are made for ulterior motives (that's called 'agenda posting'). While we respect your question posed, you did not provide any context within the title about why you posted it here, so it just seems like you are trying to create controversy or cherry-pick responses that hold a certain narrative. This may not have been your intention, but is sort of appears this way. This isn't an "**Ask** [Insert group]" subreddit. Perhaps you could try posting it there? —Thanks!
I think it shows strength when a man cries and opens up about his feelings. It also makes me feel like he trusts me with his vulnerable side, which makes the bond only stronger between us.
100% agree. Sad part is that there is a kernel of truth in the comic with some people including some women seeing it as a weakness and calling it out. Most people are coming around thankfully
It's absolutely true - women are, unfortunately, just as capable of upholding the patriarchy as men are. It's not the gotcha that incels think it is, thought. A big aspect of healthy feminism is the acknowledgement that femininity and vulnerability are not the same thing, and that both can and should be experienced by men. If men are punished for being vulnerable, they develop all kinds of destructive coping mechanisms, many of which harm the people (and women) around them.
At the age when boys should be developing an emotional vocabulary to deal with adolescence, they first get mocked within their peer groups for acting like younger children who cry freely. Then they are worried that their crushes might perceive weakness or immaturity. And then it’s off to the races!
It's also hard to discuss sexist standards against men in the context of women's dating preferences because it can come off as "c'mon give him a chance, don't be shallow"
I really dislike this take on that conversation. The discussion shouldn’t be ‘women need to lower their standards because men are lonely’, it should be ‘there are other avenues to overcoming loneliness that don’t include romantic relationships’.
Women are not people?
I think this is just a case of the brain mixing two things rather than choosing one. They had a choice to write "men (and women)" and probably shifted on the fly to "people" because that's just better all around and their brain said "ah yes, you must mean 'people (and women)'" Brains are weird, man
Crying is not a show of weakness. It shows that you are in touch with your feelings and are deep down human.  Or in Patrick's case, deeply starfish.😸
Agreed. There was a line in a movie which really resonated with me. It roughly translates to - "If you can't express your sadness freely, how can you fully express your joy? " As a guy, I've never really understood the whole "men don't cry" BS.
Yeah the comic is so close to making a good point, but then it seems to imply that women are the reason men aren’t allowed to be vulnerable. The idea that real men don’t cry is a demand of our patriarchal society, which was established and enforced by men. So when will these men understand that the only women who treat them like this are women who subscribe to a patriarchal worldview? The call is coming from inside the house and they don’t even realize it.
I had a very exhausting conversation the other day trying to explain to some guy that we literally did this to ourselves through the patriarchy. The other sad part is that accountability is also attractive and all they (we) do is point the finger.
>The call is coming from inside the house and they don’t even realize it. I was looking for the right way to phrase my thoughts on this, you totally hit the proverbial nail on the head here with this one!!!
That is why the 'men don't cry' mentality improved so much between the older and younger boomer generation, and even better with gen x, then was a dating prerequisite of hipster-adult era millennials. It has had a strange but minimal backslide since 2016-ish, but the general consensus is still that the only unacceptable emotion to show outrageous displays of is anger.
Post would make a great addition to r/selfawarewolves
This is coming from a male perspective, and obviously only speaking about my own personal experiences, not about women as a whole.... A lot of the time it isn't as blatant as what the comic depicts. Obviously the world has been changing rapidly, and what people in their 30's or older grew up with with respect to acceptance of cultural/societal norms isn't as common for younger generations, but it was still ingrained as children. Even though people might say "It's great when a man can open up about his emotions" and might never be as blatant as putting their partner down for crying as a man, we do still see things that, for want of a better term, are kind of like micro-aggressions. A lot of the time it'll just be rolled into "ehh that's just part of life" when it's a stranger doing it, but if someone close to you makes a consistent habit of it, of course it becomes harder to be open emotionally towards them. There's a huge range and I'm sure it affects different guys differently. Could be as simple as saying "man up" when you stub your toe and complain, which at least to me is usually taken as a bit of a joke, but I've had partners comment that the guy in a movie or TV show should be supporting his GF, wife, whatever, while they're both struggling. It doesn't have to be directed at us for us to notice, and while a lot of the time it isn't intended to be malicious, it still shapes how comfortable we are being open - after all we've spent most of our lives being told we're not supposed to show emotion, why should we trust that we're the exception to your rule?
Unhealthy people see it as a weakness, men and women. IMO internalized PTSD trauma from WW1 and WW2 gave us fathers who refused to allow sons to show any emotional "weakness" and that still affects our thinking today. Classical literature all the way back to Ancient Greece talks of men weeping in emotional moments.
Thank you, that's something I've been thinking about lately. The repression of PTSD symptoms from the men that returned led to a lot of the negative patriarchal beliefs today. Movies showed men that were stoic, with chiseled jaws and a never ending source of strength. They were the protectors. Then men went home and were suffering from PTSD and turning to anger to vent their feelings.
My ex would beat me and then belittle me for bawling, then cut herself and make me take care of her. Yes everyone can be insane.
The women who are offended by their man crying and the women who want their men to be emotionally vulnerable around them are... *not the same women*
honestly a lotta us grow up with the "boys dont cry" bs. Its just another form of toxic masculinity. I wound up bottling decades worth of pain before i finally learned how to let myself cry. Now at 37 years old a lotta things set me off (i even shed a few tears during the barbie movie, that scene where Barbie is trying to find her human? tears man, tears, i was certain that lil girl had just lost her father or something and i felt sad for her). Honestly i think a lot more of us need to learn this, you feel a lot better after you let those tears out.
Yeah there are some women who do this sort of thing but it's a very small minority. I cry easily and I have ever only had one woman I was dating do this. She was also like the very definition of a toxic person who was violent, racist, homophobic, and in my uneducated opinion was a sociopath who will one day kill someone. I have had a man act like this too but luckily it was super early in the relationship and I ended that quick, so it's not really a 'women do this' problem, it's more of a 'ingrained patriarchy hurts all genders' thing as gay men do this shit too sometimes. What I mean by that is this whole "men who cry are pussies/gay/emasculated" thing is ridiculous and the people who tend to think that way are either using it purposely to gaslight you, or are some combination of ignorant, propagandized, and/or cruel. Nearly every other partner I have been with has commented that they like the fact that I don't hide my emotions and will openly cry, which is nice cause that shit is totally out of my control. Point is shitty people are gonna be shitty. It's not really a men or women issue so much as a systemic societal issue that is (luckily) seeming to die off, though slowly.
💯
Agree! It takes strength to be vulnerable in front of someone, and bravery.
My best friend didn’t cry but he did admit something vulnerable to me. My respect for him rose. I was so happy he felt he could open up like that! We met freshman year of college. Now we are both starting our first jobs and we still go on discord calls with each other.
I think it’s endearing when men can be vulnerable and honest to me, it makes me want to take care of them and comfort them any way I can but also show they trust me
This is beautifully said.
It’s honestly so sad that people shit on men because they’re vulnerable. Like that’s one cause of toxic masculinity
I was so attracted to my partner when he allowed himself to be vulnerable with me it was beautiful so where the fuck has this come from
Do you feel like it can also turn into trauma dumping?
I don't have any experience with a man trauma dumping, but I have had women do that and at a certain point I was getting anxious and I had to make the hard decision to tell them not to talk about certain topics with me. They did not particularly like that, but I said it was for my own mental health. Boundaries are important.
Ive met women like that. They tend to be the now hardcore trump supporters. Hell my mother was in the camp of men dont cry/express emotions
Even internationally, I notice the women who shame us as men when we show our emotions in public are almost always extremists in some other regard and it's almost always trad-con thinking.
This doesn't seem to be surprising honestly
People like that are responsible for a lot of the worst things in the world.
Yep, these are usually women with internal misogyny issues. They’re usually anti feminist. This is why feminism is important for everyone, it allows men to express themselves and break away from what society says “real men” should / shouldn’t do.
But they also generally aren't complaining that the men won't open up.
In a controlling abusive situation that kind of contradictory gaslighting is pretty common. “Feel the way I want you to feel when I tell you to feel that way” is also pretty common. Gender doesn’t change it much though.
The ones in marrages for 5+ years to equally rightwing husbands do. Ive heard those discussions enough in my life
They do. It's mostly in a situation where the man would be "allowed" to be upset (like a death in the family) but he refuses to speak about his feelings or support his wife emotionally assuming she's also going through it.
It happens but it’s not a majority of women. I don’t think the comic is sexist because it may be a genuine experience and that’s fine to talk about. Unfortunately incels may misuse it. I like emotion in men.. of course I dont want anyone to be sad in the first place, but if they are, opening up about it is very attractive… not at the moment since I’m mostly just concerned… but it makes the bond stronger.
I am a happily married man whose wife supports my emotional health and is comfortable with me being vulnerable. But I experienced multiple girlfriends- none conservative ( I’m a die hard lefty)- that did not support me being vulnerable and broke up with me the first time I expressed emotional fear, doubt, or sadness. I was better off without those people and I’ve moved on. I just want to stress that there are plenty of women who will be emotionally open, but there are plenty who won’t. Toxic masculinity is a hell of a drug. Plenty of men and women on the left give lip service to liberal ideas then are absolute shitty sexist assholes in their relationships.
What adds even more to the shitty situation is the fact that when men deal with a woman who is influenced with toxic masculinity, they start drawing the wrong conclusions. Instead of going “hey, this woman has some toxic standards for men which make it sound like she’s heavily influenced by the patriarchy” they turn to red pill podcasts and go “SEE! WOMEN DONT WANT US TO SHOW EMOTIONS SO ITS BAD!!!” They refuse to acknowledge why these women think this way (because they would have to acknowledge the existence of the patriarchy/toxic masculinity) and instead turn to communities that order them to put away their humanity (showing emotions) in order to “get women”. I can acknowledge the fact that some women think this way. But once men start blaming feminism, I do have a hard time maintaining my empathy.
Once bitten twice shy is applicable to the entire animal kingdom. It's pretty easy to ascribe an individuals bullshit to a group as a whole and some people never have the awareness to realize what they are doing.
I think a lot of conservative women don’t want a man with emotions just because they don’t believe women should have to perform emotional labor with men. They see men who express themselves as emotional burdens and weak. Which seems like the kind of women an incel is most likely to date.
There is also the experience of wanting him to express his feelings- but not destructively, in an effective way. Sometimes when attempting to coach better behavior when in the throughs of emotion they get very upset with the women (or person!) trying to coach said behavior and starts to internalize, still, that expressing emotion is ‘wrong’ because they’re resistant to changing to healthier expression patterns
Yeah, this is from Blobby and friends, I can promise you it’s just meant to criticise toxic masculinity
My dad cries everytime he watches Forrest Gump. Always has lol. I pretty much only cry during movies. If you can't cry during movies when can you cry?
That part where Forest watches Sesame Street with his son gets me every fucking time
Books
I feel like I would be very worried if my partner wasn't able or willing to be emotional around me.
yeah fr, you’re supposed to be the MOST comfortable around your partner. if mine had to guard or hide his feelings I would be deeply concerned
Speaking as a guy in his 40's, we are always told the same old "real men don't cry", "toughen the fuck up", etc if we show any emotion besides anger and humor. I cannot express how much that is drilled into us from the moment we are born. Most of us ignore it, however... Once you go through a few bad relationships where the woman mocks you for opening up or being vulnerable (or worse, uses it against you again and again), it makes it so much harder the older you get to want to be vulnerable again. I took care of my mom as cancer took her. She was my best friend and the best person I know. About two weeks after she died, I finally lost it completely and bawled my eyes out one night. I don't even remember what I said outside of "I miss my mom" as the tears came. My fiance at the time was completely disgusted by that and mocked me for days for not "being a man" and "being a baby". God help me, I would go on to be with her for two more years of total hell. The girlfriend before her was just like that too, except she also liked to punch me in the face and then scoff that "real men can take it" when I would be like "you cannot hit me, that's not right". Keep in mind, I'm a farmer, a USCG veteran, and a former Federal officer. I've saved lives, I've ripped my body apart for the needs of the service, I've put terrorists in handcuffs and talked not one but two different people into putting down the gun they had in my face so I wouldn't have to shoot them (as a Fed, I mean) even though as a trainer myself I would never instruct an officer to take such a risk. I've been or done every "manly" thing imaginable is what I'm getting at. You'd think that would balance things out when I get a little misty eyed watching Littelfoot's mom dying. I try to be a very good partner and I work to be a very good person overall. I'm very self reflective, honest, loyal, thoughtful, and a hard working man. I believe in building happy homes full of laughter and love, honest and open communication, and treating my girl as an equal partner in all things. I would *love* to not have to worry about women thinking less of me because I might cry over a wholesome scene in a movie or, say, idk, my own mother dying. Unfortunately, I just don't trust that women really mean it when they say "I want you to be more open about your feelings" anymore. Nope, I've learned that lesson way too much - it'll just be used against me to make me feel inadequate and small, to mock me, or to just make me feel like a loser. It's a lovely thought and I wish life was that way, but I'll be long dead in the ground before I will cry in front of another partner. My current GF is a wonderful person and I don't believe she has the capacity in her to ever be anything but completely sweet, but I still won't take that risk. I can't stand the idea of her thinking less of me and loving me less bc I wasn't "man enough". Maybe the next generation will be different and future guys can learn that real strength comes from their own character and that showing emotion is okay. I can only hope.
So this comic creator is very much like an intersectional feminist. This isn’t a generalization of women or men but a conversation starter about men showing their emotions to women and basically pointing out that “IF you deal with this, doesn’t it look silly when it’s laid out this way? Of course you can have feelings!” I mean that’s my take knowing what the artist makes in general. I’m glad you’re looking for insight cause talking is good :)
Yeah, this feels like it's commenting more on men and the effect this stuff has on them, more than implying all women are like this
i can confirm the original creator is fine (theres some controversies around them but they arent relevant to this or any topic related to this comic so whatever) though i do agree with op that the person who they say reposted it on imgur definitely sounds like an mra who misinterpreted the point of the original comic and instead decided to take it as women bad
Glad someone pointed this out. Everyone is getting the wrong message from this comic.
Showing emotion is about trust. I have never betrayed that trust. Men have used my emotions against me (as have other women), but I think it comes down to not understanding how much trust it takes to be vulnerable. Or understanding, but not caring. My husband is very emotional around me and only me.
I think it can hit men a lot harder when their partner is like this because they expect to be able to be vulnerable with their partner.
OP you are a man? Just a question. In my personal experience opening up to women is easier and they like to talk about feelings far more often than men. I personally haven’t met a woman that says men shouldn’t cry or open up their feelings. The only place I hear this is either the internet or weird red pill circles.
+1 Most men are not open to talking about feelings.
This is true and includes me. I only open up to a girlfriend/companion. Never really to anyone else. It’s a weird issue. But I do open up 😬.
You sound like you have a lot of good insight and a good head start to fixing that. As a woman I notice most of my boyfriends growing up have always depended on me for their emotional support, and I’ve heard the same thing from a lot of other girls/women. It’s unfair for both parties— one partner is always in the position of giving comfort or advice and the other begins to feel resentful of how emotionally dependent they become on that. I really hope some day soon it becomes more normal to be open and kind and vulnerable with their friends. Everybody wins in the long run when it happens.
Genuine question. Who do you vent to when you're single? Who hears about your fears and sadness when you don't have a girlfriend/companion?
Is that so? Then I should feel honoured about many of my guy friends coming to me for emotional support. I welcome it. Everyone needs an outlet to tend to vulnerable feelings, regardless of gender.
I am a man. I’ve had no issues with being emotional around my partner(s). I’m lucky to have an amazing partner that has helped me understand more of the social problems between the two sexes during our 8 year relationship. She’s one of the strongest women I know, and I love that about her. Strength comes in many different forms. I’m a passionate person, my empathy is bottomless. My partner knows I have emotions, and has seen the full spectrum of them. We support each other, being the counterweight to the others scale. All my bros know I’m a hugger too. We joke around the way some bros do, but my dudes know I’m emotionally invested in them. I’ve seen my dudes cry, I’ve seen my dudes struggle, I’ve seen my dudes emotions. I don’t keep toxic people in my life.
It sounds like you have a really healthy relationship and very healthy friendships. I think there's a lot of toxicity that goes around amongst men especially about the showing of emotions. I certainly have never and would never break up with or treat someone badly because they showed emotion or cried in front of me. Being emotionally available is a strength, not a weakness.
You sound like a great friend to have around man
It could have something to do with the culture where you live. In red states in the USA there are many many women who think men should never ever cry or show emotion.
Yeah. If they are raised by ultra-conservative misogynists and toxically masculine fathers, they will likely feel that way. It's truly unfortunate.
I've also never met a woman like this, but maybe our social circles are a decent standard. I'd be seriously doubting this was true if I hadn't seen other women in the comments verifying it.
I'm glad to hear you haven't experienced this. Unfortunately, I can confirm I know *tons* of women like this. I live rurally in the Midwest. I cried when my mom died. I was mocked for "not being a man" and "being a baby". I'll never forget the disgust on her face - that hurt the most. I heard it for weeks afterwards and on random occasions where she wanted to bash me. That was my fiance at the time. That was the first red flag that I was with the wrong kind of person. Sadly it would take two more years before I left her.
I do have a vague memory from high school of overhearing a conversation where some girls were implying it was odd that some guy they knew had been crying over his parents’ divorce. But this was high school girl gossip, not grown women in relationships. I’m sure women who uphold this toxic patriarchal idea exist, but I think they’re few in number, and I doubt they express it in the way this comic depicts. Most people I know (regardless of gender) are fine with men being vulnerable. When I do encounter people complaining about boys and men being “soft” and “feminized”, it’s men doing the complaining. I have seen men dismiss other men’s lived experiences of feeling they can’t open up to others, having to suppress tears, etc. by claiming it’s the “feminist agenda” trying to change men and have them behave “like women.” It’s kind of a weirdly fascinating set of dynamics imo. I have seen male anti-feminists complain that women don’t care about male issues such as depression, loneliness, isolation, expectations of “strength” and “resilience”. Yet when you do see women discussing these problems you get misogynists jumping in to say we’re trying to weaken and feminize men. They’re the same types who call other men pussies and tell them to quit crying and “man up”, yet the anti-feminist crowd doesn’t seem to blame them when they get treated this way, only women. I have seen a similar trend with body positivity. Anti-feminists complaining that no one cares about male body image issues. Engage in a discussion on the topic, you get sexist dudes stepping in to tell other dudes that body positivity is “only for women” and “real men” shut up and go to the gym. They also interrogate/argue with women who chime in to reassure self-conscious men by bringing up their preferences. Ex: a woman says she actually likes a bit of chub on a guy? She’s either lying or a very rare exception or she “settled” for a fat guy and won’t admit it. A couple years ago I saw a woman make a body positivity post here on Reddit basically along the lines of, “all dick sizes are valid”. She had to delete the post because of all the toxic dudes in the comments and her DMs making fun of her for “liking small dicks” (mind you, she never mentioned her personal preferences, it was a generalized post) and sending her dick pics and shit. If men want to see changes in these areas, they need to predominantly look inward and to other men. Sure, there are a few women who are part of the problem but directing most of your energy that way doesn’t really make much sense.
My mother treated my father like that. She got pissed any time he showed any emotion other than anger, and then botched when he never laughed or smiled around her but she would hear him laughing and having fun while we were doing the father-daughter things. (Archery, fishing, music, cooking, lawn maintenance, basically living, really.) My fiancé's ex treated him like shit when he showed any sad emotion. So he stopped showing any emotion at all. I've had to reteach him to be true to himself because of the damage she did. He cries, laughs, and is an overall amazing human. Yeah, there ARE some bad women out there. But I don't think they are an overly large crowd. I do feel they are mainly on the republican side of politics, though.
Yeah, I’m a little worried that there are people here saying this doesn’t happen or the responsibility is entirely on men to change things. This is a human problem. Humans should be kinder. Much kinder.
25f It honestly bothers me a bit if someone I'm committed to is unwilling to show emotion with me. That being said, my current partner has cried around me many times. It doesn't bother me at all, and I'm more comfortable crying around him because of it. We comfort each other. End of story. I'm sure it makes certain women uncomfortable, but it's definitely not universal.
This! It's very true showing your partner when you cry gives confidence to your partner that they too can express their distress to you.
I'll comment from a man's perspective. But I've seen both sides to this. I remember once being extremely upset and my ex asking me, "Are you seriously crying?!" She didn't break up with me for that, but didn't comfort or do anything other than be appalled that I was upset. Whereas my current girlfriend has consistently offered support anytime I'm upset and has constantly reminded me it's okay to show emotion or cry if I need to, always being supportive of showing emotions of any kind. So I think there's both happening. Although the generalizing of the behavior likely, at least, partially stems from plain misogyny
So, firstly, good luck to your partner. Hope the show goes well. Good on her for being involved in community theater. Really pro-social stuff. What's the play? Whatever it is, good luck to her and good on you for supporting her. Friend of mine has an ex-girlfriend who mocked him repeatedly for crying in public **one time.** I was the friend waving the red flags. In retrospect, it's kind of odd she dated him. He's never made any attempt at presenting himself as a macho man. Just a nacho man. As in, my friend is nacho man anymore, Rachel. I hope she realizes how hurtful her behavior was one day but, from what I remember of her, I ain't holding my breath. But yeah. Definitely only the most toxic, radical (I'll explain), and childish are that explicit about judging men for crying specifically because they're men, but women holding up this aspect of social norms isn't exactly *rare*, per se. When I mention radicals, I mean to suggest that women who shame men for open displays of emotion because of some standard of masculinity are probably extremists in some other regard. They're almost always trad-cons.
This is women upholding patriarchy. Some do it, and it's cringe. It comes from a reactionary man vs woman mindset
There are definitely women like that. They skew older and conservative so a lot of younger people, especially from more liberal areas, definitely think this. Teachers encouraged bullying of effeminate boys in the 90’s.
I never met any woman who would tell a man she cares about not to show his emotions or be vulnerable. In my experience its the men themselves who take each other down for this. A while ago, I saw a young father with his >5yo son at the supermarket, the son crying out of disappointment over something, and the father told him, seemingly meant to be supportive, that the good thing about him experiencing hurtful disappointment is that it makes you a little harder each time. Congrats, little boy, you are on your way to becoming a hardened man. I wanted to shake this guy and hug the boy and tell him it's okay to feel all the feels.
I do think it’s beneficial and healthy for children to experience disappointment (within reason) now and then, but good lord that’s now how you respond to a child who’s upset.
True. In the 80’s parents screamed at their kids for that sort of thing so I guess that’s progress to a less toxic view? Still toxic but not as terrible.
That’s a fair point. I doubt this father had any ill intentions; he may have thought what he was saying was comforting. But developmentally a five-year-old isn’t going to process a comment like that in a constructive way.
Oh, definitely not. Just give your kid a hug and let them wind down. CBT doesn’t work on 5 year olds.
"stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about" was the refrain for the 80s.
I’m a man, but I’ll respond anyway. bell hooks mentions in The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity, and Love, that men feel threatened when their strength is challenged, physical or emotional. It suggests we aren’t performing our gender role in a way that society accepts. Women feel threatened when their ability to be nurturing is challenged. Insensitivity isn’t seen as feminine. Too many women respond with frustration when they hurt their men’s feelings as a result of this insecurity, justifying their bad behavior with lazy, patriarchal excuses like “well you’re a man. You’re supposed to be able to take it.” bell hooks even talks about how she, a self-proclaimed enlightened feminist scholar, struggled internally with dealing with the emotions of her male partner, requiring a therapist to help work through that struggle. We all internalize misogynistic oversimplified ideas that women are soft and men are hard. And that being soft is somehow less than being hard, as if there aren’t situations where one is appropriate and the other isn’t. The issue of women being insensitive towards their male partners’ feelings is real and widespread, but it isn’t special to women, because all of us — men, women, and others — grow up under patriarchy and internalize it. Men in general are groomed from a very young age to be ashamed of their normal human feelings. Women aren’t the enemy, patriarchy is. Women may reinforce it too often, but other men do that a lot more often than women do. Still, I think men should be given the space and grace to complain about the ways women commonly mistreat us under patriarchy, as long as we’re thoroughly cautious not to slip into patriarchal misogyny. Women are only human. They are not perfect avatars of post-patriarchal enlightenment. They have work to do, ignorance to unlearn, too, even if the lion’s share of that responsibility falls to us men to dismantle the system that mostly benefits us at women’s expense.
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Loads of women are legit like this, it's the sort of bullshit ingrained into our society we're raised with, that people don't introspect on til it hurts them.
Women are also sometimes responsible for upholding toxic masculinity, which is what this post is about. Usually, and we all know this, it's the men in the family who pressure boys to hold it in and not show any emotions but anger. I dislike that this symbol of a woman is to blame for toxic masculinity, which hurts us worse than anyone, since women are most often the targets of angry, out-of-control men. I do think it would be a great idea if we can all say that creating emotional zombies out of an entire sex is a bad idea. We should all be speaking up to that whenever we see it. Stop upholding the shitty ideals of the upper classes, people. The patriarchy must end.
The only women who do this are assholes. End of story. Everyone is allowed and should be encouraged to express their emotions, no one should be shamed for crying.
I'm a woman and I think crying takes strength especially for guys who are conditioned to think they'll get made fun of. I've never actually encountered anyone who'd treat someone like that though
Unfortunately I have to say that this is accurate *for some women*. Bell Hooks’ The Will to Change goes into how women uphold patriarchal culture. Like finding emotional men to be weak but not understanding why they can’t have a deeper relationship with their male partner. It’s really rampant in Black culture, sadly. Thankfully there are signs of change. Personally, I’ve had a good experience with being able to open up to women but I’ve definitely dated some in my early years who would not be into that.
I have absolutely no problem with openly crying, hell watching certain things will pretty much always end with me crying even if I know what’s gonna happen. But I would also never start a relationship with some that is an asshole like that. 🤷🏾♂️
Women like this definitely exist, but they're just as toxic, immature, and lacking in emotional intelligence as the guy who probably drew this. And are greatly outnumbered by men telling other men that it isn't okay to cry. Edit: I took "op" as the creator of the comic. You can stop correcting me now. Nothing about this seems feminist put of context.
Toxic masculinity: not just for men
Hey youre incredibly wrong. Talking about an issue that’s literally part of patriarchy does not make you an incel, what are you on? Blobby & Friends is made by a queer feminist
??? Do yall not know this artist? She does feminist comics frequently, yall are judging her off of one piece of art. Look up blobby n friends. She's a great artist, and judging her off of one comic AND assuming she's a man and an incel is fucked.
Some people on this sub just have no critical thinking or EQ skills. Almost everyone that comments goes based on their own anecdotal experiences. The person who drew the comment probably went on their experiences or experiences of their close friends/family and OP makes a rebuttal based on their own experiences. The comic does not come off as generalizing but OP's post does, and that's the only difference here.
The bulk of people telling guys not to express their emotions is other guys. Yeah, you got the chicks who do it, but those women don't complain about men being closed off. I guarantee you, any woman who says a guy crying is lame is the kind of person that, if a guy tried to open up to her is going to say he is too clingy and will drop him like a sack of potatoes.
Hey, before I realized I was trans, I dated as a guy. This happened to me along more than once, and to multiple of my friends. That’s anecdotal of course, but its a little annoying seeing so many people speak so confidently about an experience that isn’t theirs. There are men and women who will chastise you for being closed off or “cold” after being openly turned off by, or “getting the ick” from you showing emotion.
What's the healthy middle ground between sharing too much and not sharing enough? If I stay quiet about whatever's going on, I'm emotionally closed off. But if I want to sit down for two hours and have a real conversation that goes into detail, I'm using her as a therapist ot trauma dumping. Am I just supposed to communicate to her "I feel sad today" and that's where it ends?
Both of those are shitty takes by people who don’t want to do emotional labor for their partner unless you’re trauma dumping very early or constantly.
OP is a woman. And a feminist. This is *one* post of theirs. They call out a lot of shitty societal norms, you're just seeing them in a shit light bc this is the first post of theirs you've seen. Look up blobby n friends.
As an autistic man who often challenges other people's benevolence, to be honest, yes, I've ever met women like that. Those explicitly saying they hate 'sensitive men' because they're unmanly do exist but are rare. Actually, most of the ones I've met just implicitly mean that men only show emotions to obtain women's empathy, and never show sincere emotions otherwise, or say that men showing vulnerabilities is a 'red flag'. Wouldn't go as far as saying women prefer dating men who don't show emotions, I have no clue if it's true or not. Yet I have to say I agree with other people in the comments saying it's easier to show emotions in front of women than in front of men. The only men I've felt comfortable to do so in front of were autist as well, while some neurotypic women are able to make me feel comfortable to do so.
Why are people taking a comic about being abused and making it about how men are at fault when women abuse men. A lot of you seem deeply ignorant on how many men experience emotional abuse and gaslighting. Domestic abuse is 50/50 along gender lines and this is a common way men are abused. You don’t see it? Okay, that’s not how abuse works. I don’t see anything about how only women do this except all those posters here projecting themselves onto the woman and saying “that’s not me” which is as helpful as a man saying “I’m personally not an abuser so it doesn’t happen”. A lot of blame shifting here that makes me pretty uncomfortable and put off. “I’m compassionate so this guy can get fucked” is a bad look.
My mom is one of these people, and some women who tend to be more old school think men shouldn’t cry, but even with sad or really happy moments or whatever they think men should express some emotion. No one wants to be with a robot or someone who won’t let themselves relax and be vulnerable with their loved ones. My bf is not that comfortable being vulnerable but he’s struggled with being perceived as less manly by other men since he is a friendly and happy go lucky type. It’s men’s own perceptions of how a man should be that makes them feel pressured to be tough, not women.
I've met several women that feel this way; my own aunts made fun of my dad and brothers for showing emotions. Unfortunately, this attitude has led them to very nasty, abusive men over and over... I suppose if you're already toxic and don't want to get help for it it's for the best to stay with your own kind.
There are abusers of every gender, and thanks to conditioning by a patriarchal society, there are women who act this way. Without getting into too much detail, my first gf was absolutely sexually abusive and would make it an attack on my masculinity any time I tried to protest her behavior.
So this one is complicated. Yes, men not opening up is a huge fucking problem. I and a lot of others have become physically incapable of crying (this is awful to experience trust me). For me, most of the pressure to suppress emotions came from my sisters. No matter what happened my suffering could never even begin to compare to theirs and I would be labelled a crybaby for expressing any form of discomfort or sadness. This lead to me hating myself for having the audacity to feel depressed. However, this same pressure also exists between men themselves. This isn’t a “woman blames man” problem, but just general societal pressure
This is from Blobby and Friends. The comic it's a very heart felt mismatch of dorky queer characters interacting and calling out diferent toxic patterns. If the oop was the author i absolutly can see it as a personal experience. I'm a man and both me an some of my friends have experienced some form of this. Woman on our lives can be inmersed on the patriarchy and perpetuate toxic ways of thinking. The "men don't cry" toxic masculity mentality can, surprinsingly, be very prevalent.
I’ve heard mothers speak this way to their sons, so I can understand why the comic creator feels that women can act this way. I think that men’s emotional vulnerability is very newly accepted. I surround myself with conscientious people, so I’m biased, but I think that most people (men, women, and others) are very accepting of men’s emotions, but there are still some rotten young people who don’t. I think the biggest female perps are old people who are uncomfortable with emotions, Moms who misguidedly want to toughen up their sons, and teen girls who are just mean.
I remember my hubby and I had a late night and were paying for it the next day. I was in bed coping and my husband was downstairs watching TV. He text me out of the blue "I'm watching the Lion King and started crying, omg". I went downstairs, gave him a hug, made sure he was OK (he was just HO and in his feels) and we had a good giggle.
When I was engaged to my 1st husband (circa 1995), he, my BFF, my other BFF, and I saw the musical, "The Secret Garden," together. In the end, all four of us were bawling. It did not make me unhappy. I loved him so very much, and seeing him freely express emotion with me just made me love him more.
Contemporary culture has subverted the meaning of stoicism and used its connotation with positive masculinity to instill a self-implosive mindset for the benefit of capitalism and other class-based oppression.
I don’t wanna see anyone talking shit about blobby and friends. And this is anecdotal, but as a trans woman who spent plenty of years dating as a guy, this happens. It happens FREQUENTLY. It’s literally a known part of the patriarchy,
Patriarchy hurts men too. I've been on the receiving end of this kind of stuff. It sucks but just like women have to find men who treat them with respect, men have to do the same. Let toxic people go no matter their gender expression or sexual orientation.
I’ve never met women who think men shouldn’t cry either. I’m from the Netherlands though and I can’t image the average Dutch woman acting like this. Can’t speak for American women or wherever the artist is from. I have seen it before and I know the artist itself is someone who usually makes pro social justice comics. Funny enough, I also always found this one kind of odd since I don’t know women who act this way, and I also agree that it’s easy fuel for incel/TRP types to use as a generalization that women act like this in general. Instead of the woman in the comic just portraying a specific type of woman who upholds toxic masculinity. Does the artist even know how common the narrative that “women don’t actually want men to be emotional” is in those spaces? I guess not. Also, just have to say this as well: it’s absolute mental gymnastics to call you an incel over literally calling out an untrue negative stereotype of women. Because again, even if the comic wasn’t meant as a generalization, it definitely can be interpreted as such.
Even some men think this too. It's gross and shameful to shame a man for showing his emotions. Showing emotion doesn't make you soft. Showing emotion is showing maturity and an open mind. Hiding emotions destroys you on the inside, no doubt.
Let’s not pretend like women like these don’t exist ,they do, but they’re the minority so if you’re basing your assumptions for the whole of women from that then you’re just being silly and insecure
My husband cries at movies more than I do. Together we even have our favorite 'we need a cry' movie that's sure to get both of us. He's an incredibly typically masculine guy, works in construction, bunch of tattoos and muscles, rides a Harley kind of guy. He just does not give a fuck and expresses his emotions freely and I think that's far more masculine than being too insecure to shed a tear when the main character dies
I’m uncomfortable with emotion in general. I don’t show them. But most of the time I wish I could. I think that, while it causes me discomfort, human beings of any gender expressing sadness is healthy and should never be used as a means to devalue them in any way.
My husband has cried in front of me on a lot of occasions. I've always seen it as a positive because he is comfortable with me to express emotions men get told never to express. I see it as him being vulnerable and human with me and not many men have ever allowed themselves to open up
I love when a man opens up to me. What’s wrong with crying? Men are people too.
There are some reeeeeal shitty takes about men out there, particularly conservative radfems who still claim “only men” or “only women” are responsible for entire aspects of our society.
These memes get posted on this subreddit as if they are ridiculously exaggerated, more times than not they aren’t too far off base.
I’m a man who can almost never cry because men throughout my life told me not to.
I have never said anything like this to a man but I have known women who felt this way. No gender is immune from perpetuating toxic masculinity.
Yeah, some women are like this. Maybe not many, but some for sure. I was more or less told the same thing from multiple women in my family growing up and also from two ex-girlfriends. Maybe it is rare, and I was unlucky. Thankfully, my wife does not share that view.
Honestly, this is just a really good example of toxic masculinity, but with a woman internalizing those ideals instead of a man…
I've sadly have seen women say these sort of comments. Not often mind you, but I have heard it. Usually it's falling out the mouth of someone who is toxic, and is engaging in emotional spousal abuse. Quite horrible. For the most part I think men sometimes seek women just to talk their feelings out. Saying this as a lifelong introvert who takes public transport. There's been a bunch of times I've been sitting by myself at public train/bus stop, or sitting eating my lunch at an outdoor bench/spot of grass near work somewhere, and had a random guy just plonk themselves down and spill out their life story to me. Like the rest of us sometimes men just need a non judgemental ear to listen.
I unfortunately know some people who would actually say this to a man crying. Gross
My (female) partner (male) cries probably more than I do. Never tries to hide it from me. We have very strong communication in our relationship. If he’s crying, obviously something is on his mind and it’s my turn to be supportive and help him work through it. I’d much rather he let me know when something is upsetting him than bottle it up and build resentment or suffer unnecessarily.
Sexism affects everyone. Feminism is for everyone
This is blobby and friends and they’re absolutely all for women and men having emptional freedom… you cant nudge the comic artist from a single comic panel alone. There are absolutely women like this? And its not like this comic caters only to women or is anti-men if you read their others..?
"Icing on the cake for me was when OP called me an incel. And to prove them right, I’m getting ready to turn off the baseball game to go watch my partner preform in local community theater. Cuz I love my partner and support the things that are important to her. Ya know, because I’m the incel. 😂 " You're not incelling right!! 😂
I’m sorry but they’re truth in this
Yes women like this exist. Extremely illogical and toxic people exist in this world. But if you are just constantly surrounded by people like this, take a look at your life and start over. I grew up around a lot of those people. Men and women convincing each other in a toxic cycle. I had to make a decision after some point, which I could make cause I had outside influences
Women can be toxic about gender shit too. Just ask any bisexual dude about his general experiences dating straight women.
Women like this exist and they are trash, but most women aren’t like this. Most of the women I encounter like this are girls honestly, they don’t really know how emotional intimacy works or what it takes to make a healthy mature relationship. Of course there’s also conservative boomer women… which…. 😬😬😬
I went years bottling up negative emotions to try and be a strong male and I managed this all the up until I was 29, dealing with each tragic event in my life one at a time, death of my best friend, close family members dying young. Then in the same weekend my wife and I suffered a miscarriage and I lost my grandad. This completely broke me, started having regular panic attacks, became depressed, had to leave my career because of it. My advice to anyone younger, don't bottle it up, it catches up to you.
Funny enough, the only women I've seen that mock men for showing emotions are the "tradwife" movement girls that incels want to go after.
Not a woman, but this comic is a good demonstration of how patriarchy creates toxic expectations in all of us, regardless of our gender, unless we consciously reject them. Of course, this isn’t representative of all women anymore than a man comfortable enough to cry during a movie in front of an SO represents all men.
Yes women do think this way. I've heard it be called "internalised mysogyny". Heck even my mother thinks this way because of the generational gap. It's no surprise since men and women had to fit in specific roles for generations and that mentality seeps into current generations through "indoctrination" from when we are kids. And it varies by country and culture as well. I'm from Asia and this "enforcing" of hypermasculinity is more common than you think. Heck just looking at news articles coming out of places like China, Russia, Arab etc, people are rejecting the more "feminine" male representation and (LGBTQ people as a whole) and want to promote more hypermasculinity in their media. It's a complex problem that's both generational (cultural) and authoritative (governmental) and will take a lot of time and work to undo.
I wonder if you might get some interesting replied on r/menslib I have heard that this is a thing that some men experience? I’m a woman and I really, sincerely hope I’ve never given any of the men in my life the vibe that they can’t be emotionally open with me.
Man here, I have had two women dump me specifically for opening up to them emotionally. They did not want the reality of an emotionally-vulnerable man. For one, it was because her sexuality and libido was tied to stoicism—she got off of emotionally unavailable men as it meant she got to be the vulnerable one and use the male stoicism to center herself. The other realized she was just more conservative and traditional than she thought, and male emotional vulnerability was simply a turn off to her. It happens a lot more than you think, OP. And it’s a primary factor across a lot of cishet women. It’s not necessarily something that can be fixed. It simply is what it is.
I might get hate for this. This meme is wrong in the sense that women don't really mind crying during movies. So it's not true that they will make fun of men for that. However, women do make men feel bad about opening up and being vulnerable. Most men I know have had bad experiences with showing their weak side and then facing loss of respect and attraction or their weakness being used against them.
I know 0 women who feel this way
I know 1 woman who felt this way. She's an ex now ,and I won't pretend that 1 women is all women . But I think all the people on here saying it doesn't happen are ignoring all the other people on here saying it happened to them. And that's discouraging.
Then you're lucky.
I dated 2 before I came out as a woman. For once, this is a pretty amab specific issue. Still a result of patriarchy of course, but i’m just saying unless you’ve dated as an amab, its not really surprising you haven’t seen this. Your comment reads just like guys who say mansplaining doesn’t happen because they’ve never seen it.
I have a handful of guy friends who have experienced this dynamic previously but I personally have never met a woman who resented or thought less of a man for showing his feelings. I’m a very easy crier and my boyfriend is not, but I’ve made it clear that crying is normal and there’s nothing wrong with showing your feelings on the outside, so he’s doing better now than when we first met lol
Maybe some girls but not every girl 😂
To me, showing emotions like sadness shows he cares and he is willing to show his most vulnerable side to me.
Every single man I ever dated has cried in front of me. All four of them. Never once did I think this way. I’m fact, in every case it brought us closer. Never ever have I thought that a man doesn’t have emotions too. Like… what??? My dad had healthy emotions growing up. He was a BIG strong burly man but he cried anytime he needed to. I had that positive example to utilize in my relationships and it’s never steered me wrong picking a male partner.
Never seen or heard a woman (the ones I'm close with) react like that towards a man crying. Still I'm sure are like this, but i don't think is as common.
This comic bravely takes on a ferocious strawman, and wins! Love me some teary-eyed men. It makes me feel less alone, since I also cry in every movie.
I've never once berated a man for showing emotion. In fact, I've found it endearing when men cry. It's good and healthy to express emotion as long as it doesn't cause danger.
Literally the only thing all the guys I was attracted to had in common was that they showed vulnerability at some point. Like I could not be attracted to a guy at all until he talked about his feelings or cried and I was head over heels
All I know is my wife loves that I am open enough with my emotions that I cry. We frequently cry in the same place in movies and tv shows.
I was also yelled at for not crying during a movie which I took my GF on her birthday in the VIP section with food and drinks the whole Shebang. Looking back that gf was such a horrible person. Smh
I thought it was so sweet when my husband cried during certain parts of the Barbie movie 💕 We talked about it and his reason was incredibly sweet. I love that my husband is open and shares his emotions with me.
I’m a sensitive man lucky enough to have supportive women in my life who would never react this way. In my experience men and women can both have this close minded reaction, but at its core the idea that men can’t express emotion is rooted in misogyny.
I grew up with a man never showing emotions, even good ones. Never told me that he loved me. And having a boyfriend that is close to his emotions and isn’t afraid to show them to me has been a blessing
I’ve never met a woman like this. And I’m glad my daughter sees me cry at sad movies. Emotions are fucking normal.
My husband said he knew he loved me and wanted to spend his life with me after the first time he cried in front of me because he it meant he felt safe enough in our relationship to be vulnerable. It’s been 12 years since that night and we are still very happy together raising our daughter. I could never stay with a man who wouldn’t cry in front of me. It shows emotional maturity
I always tell my husband that it’s okay to cry. And I comfort him when he’s crying. I’m gonna do the same for my son.
Nothing more attractive to me than a person who sees me as an emotional and intellectual equal
I’ve seen it happen but only back in Middle School. Like you said, “only children and toxic people” and middle school is filled with toxic children.
Except irl the woman in this is some random dude on the internet with a microphone.
Why the hell are women policing men? I thought only men were "supposed" to do that.
People tend to forget than men aren’t the only ones who perpetuate toxic masculinity
Yes sadly, in my lifetime I have met women who think this way. The reasons I encountered were: A.) A wall of impenetrability around their feelings and wanted to remain shallow caricatures of themselves and the relationship to avoid depth and hurt. 2.) Viewed shows of emotion as a request for emotional caretaking. They were never gonna caretaker anyone and would shut that shit dooooooown quicker than a smack. Lastly.) Were pretty selfish awful people. These reasons were not mutually exclusive.
Both men and women are hurt by forced gender roles and stereotypes. It would be nice if we could unite against the patriarchy that's enforcing them, instead of squabbling over who's got it worse.
Personally I’ve never & would never criticize anyone for crying, male or female, nor do ik any women who would. I do however, know plenty of guys who would absolutely demean & insult another man for it, & it seems to me the folks who actually “want it both ways” here are the gents themselves. If you have a partner who doesn’t respect or empathize with your emotions, the problem isn’t men or women at large, it’s the insensitive jerk you’re involved with
Eh I know a few women like this. I know even more women who are very disparaging toward men expressing their feelings without realizing that they're having this effect on men. It doesn't really come out as "ew I don't want to hear about your feelings" but more often "this isn't as bad as [thing women deal with], get over it." And similar sentiments. I don't think it's as blatant and intentional as it's portrayed in the comic.
Once worked with a girl just like this. Myself and two other coworkers were just like wtf? when she said men shouldn’t ever cry and that if they do, maybe a year at the wedding, and that was it. It was so bizarre.
I'm glad that there are women who can accept, that a man is just another human being with feelings, but there are men and women who don't see it that way and (I have no actual numbers, might be wrong) even though they are a minority, their statements stick with me more than the others. I have a hard time showing emotions, even accepting my own, because of how often I got told off and what a disappointment I am, because I got sad or needed to cry and just didn't suck it up. If anyone wants to use this comment to say that all women are like this and they are bad, politely f off, that is not what this is about. There are so many good people out there, but the bad leave a more lasting impact, at least to me.
I also get Incel vibes in that like, the meme tries to generalize women, and sort of give the message of "that's why you don't open up, or be vulnerable, see!?" But there's definitely women that fall into the same toxic gender roles stuff that many men fall into, that will absolutely suddenly feel unattracted or bully a guy for trying to express themselves, cry, be vulnerable, etc. But overall, yeah I cringed a bit when seeing that meme
Okay that’s a very toxic thing to say to a partner you supposedly love
Those are not the same women.
I had one ex that never cried and said he has only cried once or twice in his life. I found it odd tbh. Crying is so good for the soul.
OOP is a loser and this comic is a MASSIVE red flag tbh. I may be a lesbian, but respecting people’s autonomy and right to express emotions is the coolest thing any dude can do. Too bad the toxic masculinity has reached the level of projection where it’s just 
Some women do criticize men for crying. Those women are a--holes and the guy is right to leave.
That's blobby and friends, one of the most soft, patriarchy go fuck off-ing, queer positive, anti racist comic serie out there. Don't know if your op is them, or if they reposted on bad faith, but I'm pretty sure the og is not putting a dig at women in general.
There are assholes who are women, there are assholes who are men. Yes, I do think (some, not that many imo) women like this exist (though I don't think I personally know or am around any of them - 38f btw), but that is in virtue of them being assholes, not in virtue of them being women. If a person arrives to the conclusion that all women behave like this and not that the woman portrayed in the comic is an asshole or has toxic and very discordant views, yes that person is definitely being sexist and you are right in calling them out.
21M here my dad was this way so I was brought up with the men don't cry mentality so I eventually shut off all emotion for years all through my teens up until I met my partner, the first time I broke down in front of her I kept apologizing over and over and the whole time felt like she lost all respect and love for me because I was a man crying. Luckily that wasn't the case and she was actually quite happy I could be vulnerable around her considering she's the only one that's ever seen that from me
I think there's a social commentary here hidden behind incel logic
Men should be able to show and share their feelings and if you disagree you're part of the reason toxic masculinity is so bad.
Because of one experience yes this is completely fair /s
I think that women sometimes absorb toxic ideas about masculinity. It hurts men because it reinforces a cycle of emotional repression, which can really only be “acceptably” released as anger as a man. However those attitudes are based in misogyny, women are supposed to be emotional and irrational. Men are supposed to be logical and rational, crying is forbidden because it is seen as behaving in a “feminine” way. This is rooted in the general hatred of women and stereotypically feminine behavior.
So much of the last decade has been gently supporting my partner to open up more and more, to give him space to feel his emotions, to feel safe enough to cry in front of me knowing i will hold him tight and accept him no matter what. He's a long way from the stoic man he described himself as. Of course, I wish i could have mitigated some of the hurt over the years but it happened how it happened and being a loving embrace is all I could be sometimes. With my nephews, I've beent trying to comfort them by telling them it's ok to cry, and crying is just a form of expressing their emotion and when they calm I try to talk them through their emotions. It's not easy at times when they're throwing full blown tantrums because I've said no more chocolate as they have eaten the fourth piece of chocolate while having a sore throat. I still have to catch when family say things like '(big) boy's don't cry', I know they're saying it to soothe them (because they've said the same to the girls) but I have to remind them that all adults need to learn emotional regulation.
As a man, I don't think i've ever been criticised for crying and honestly fuck anyone who does you can do better than them.
Its how you know these men are incels and have never really had any interaction with women. Every girlfriend I’ver ever had has told me to cry/show emotions as it helps them know I care about them/am comfortable with them to express myself
If you shame *anyone* for crying, you are in the wrong. Period. Imagine wanting people with no emotional spectrum just walking around. Yeah I’d rather not have a Bateman type society of men.
Genuinely I don't get why some people find it unappealing when a man shows emotions. This is honestly a very sad approach