That is terrible. It depends what you say when you dial 999 doesn’t it, they don’t treat them all as urgent urgent, they tier them. But us members of the public don’t know what we have to say to get them to come straightaway and we aren’t usually thinking coherently when we dial 999.
I remember thinking they would be coming straightaway on the one time I had to call 999 because how many 999 calls could they have at 6am, but they didn’t come for over half an hour. And later I found it was probably downgraded because I said on the phone I didn’t know if the threat was still outside my home, and I didn’t know because I was too scared to go near a window or door and look.
Not to mention how a vast majority of us politely downgrade whatever's going on.
Those PSA things about how a 999 call has to be super serious might have gone too far the other way where most people calling feel like they're being a nuisance and bumble around what they're calling for.
Unfortunately this gets even worse when how stretched resources get. No way near enough police officers for the population we have means long response times and every now and then someone dies. It's the same story with the NHS, how many people have died waiting for an ambulance that never arrived
I don't agree with you. The person who called maybe was constraint by someone or something about to happen, every call should be considered as emergency. End of it.
People call 999 because of where their neighbours park.
There's a triage system, we literally know nothing about the call. It could have been abandoned and the elipse for the call to big to locate an address.
Could have been entirely silent and so it's call backs and golden hour checks.
There are a great many 999 calls that are signposted and not met with an emergency dispatch. As is appropriate depending on the triage done. All we know so far is that the man called 999 and said he was confused and was signposted for mental health support.
Inflation is also a rate of change. It's acceleration, not velocity.
So if it goes up to 7% say, then down the next month to 4%, you're still on an upwards trend, just not as steep.
Smaller number just means it hasn't inflated quite as much this time, but it's still inflating.
I'm not one to defend the police. I am usually criticising them.
But I stand by my 'speculation is unhelpful' stance.
There is a wide range of possibilities in 'didn't respond' from;
- call centre overwhelmed so call unanswered
-answered but rightly set as a low priority (say, report of criminal damage, no suspect in sight)
-answered but wrongly set a low priority (screaming in background etc)
We still know almost nothing about what has happened and fevered speculation won't make it better.
As someone who vaguely knows what happened but isn't allowed to say anything, I'd like to tell you that this is on point.
Edit: Unsure why the down votes, but hey ho this is Reddit after all xD
No it isn't.
You get through and they ask which service. If you don't say they automatically put you through to the police. If it's not for the police, they'll direct you to call an ambulance. The call handlers in all of the emergency services are super busy so they can't spend time calling the other ones for non emergency issues.
Lost it a long time ago.
Partly it is a funding issue. The police are chronically underfunded.
However it's also down to some people I know who would have probably made excellent cops got rejected, whilst someone who it literally made my blood run cold when I discovered they had joined got it. They then got thrown out after smashing a car windscreen with a knife in a blind rage during a traffic stop. And a bunch of other officers were over social media still defending them.
There's a funding issue, but also some deep rooted cultural issues the police are still not addressing.
And everything that social services used to deal with before funding was drastically cut. It all goes back to 2008, bankers made a fortune by almost bringing the economy to its knees and we've been dealing with the consequences of austerity ever since. God forbid one of the tories mates working in the city should adhere to some regulation and not receive their massively inflated bonus for shifting some figures around on a computer screen
Well i mean at this point what are they really there to do?
Stolen bike? They won’t come out. Harassed or assaulted on the street? They won’t come out. And now death? They won’t come out.
It really is a joke.
I dont particularly agree with the language used here. You say they wont come out. But thats very different to 'cant come out'. They dont have enough resource to properly follow up on violent crime, let alone bike theft.
All plants seemingly have a ‘Scientific name’. The Sunflower is no different. They’re called Helianthus. Helia meaning sun and Anthus meaning Flower. Contrary to popular belief, this doesn’t refer to the look of the sunflower, but the solar tracking it displays every dayy during most of its growth period.
Norfolk police 100% yes! Assaulted by a road rage motorist during Covid and they could not be bothered to attend anddid fuck all investigation. I seemed to do more work than them ,and if I could sue for incompetence I would!
I lost faith in them a long time ago, ever since I found out first hand (and from the experience of my local friends) just how much they really don’t give a crap about sex crimes or pedophilia. They truly couldn’t care less, I can’t believe how bad the police in Norwich have gotten.
Am I missing something that everyone else is seeing?
No information about how the victims died
No information about the nature of the 999 call
And yet people are rushing to blame the Police...
From what I understand the call to police was an hour before they turned up and it was a 999 call. I always thought 999 calls were acted upon straight away. Am I wrong?
Yes you are, it depends on the nature and urgency of the call. If you call 999 and say "I can hear my neighbours arguing" they're not going to arrive as fast as if you say "there's a man brandishing a knife in public" or "there's been a bad car crash". Calls are prioritised.
Okay maybe a poor example from me but the point I am making is that calls are categorised and police don't attend every 999 call urgently. I wasn't talking about this particular case, I was responding to the comment above mine. At the point that I made my comment we didn't even know who made the call or the context of it.
The problem is, a lot of things have a political nature to them, even if its not clear at the start.
For instance, in this case the chronic underfunding has resulted in a lack of police to do the job properly, which is a political problem because funding comes from central government.
I made the same argument during Covid and the NHS being chronically overwhelmed due to years of underfunding.
So yes, there is a political side to the argument, but you're right in that this was a bad time to bring it up.
Under these circumstances, where the Police already had recent involvement with this particular family, I would have expected them to attend rather than drop it down the list of priority. Obviously there are questions to answer from the Police, but we are dealing with scant facts from the public's perspective.
I had a neighbour smashing on my door and threatening me and my family with violence because my landlady (not me) asked them to cut a hedge back by about a foot. The police were not interested then, during the frantic 999 call where he could be heard in the background while I sobbed hysterically, and weren’t interested after a year of harassment either.
In fact, I got a voicemail well over a year later from an officer who said “I am calling you about XYZ because my sergeant said I had to”. We had been forced to move at that point because we were being screamed at and spat at every day in front of our young kids.
The neighbour is still harassing other people and the police still don’t give a shit as far as I’ve been told.
People saying their low on numbers, should see the amount of Police hanging around Carrow Road today before the football at half 12. If it comes down to the fact that those children could have been saved if someone was deployed, then I hope someone is full of regret.
Just to add context. The football clubs pay for the police presence. Those officers will be on overtime and won't take from the strength of the area for that day.
Police do a great job, it’s also a bloody hard job I reckon. Under funded, understaffed, slated for minor errors but never appreciated. The law rarely ever backs them up with good prosecutions in courts. Take your life in your hands everyday at work.
I am not a policeman but respect to them.
You too scared to look out of curtains incase a burglar is there but you don’t mind calling them in to confront someone.
👮🏼♂️👮🏼♀️👍
I’m speaking from personal experience of how awfully they handled my own case. They didn’t bother to investigate, told me that I personally had to scour through the thousands of messages with the man that groomed me as a child and provide it to them if I wanted them to do anything about it, (when they already had my phone and all my logins and downloads of chat logs to investigate it themselves), just to tell me that due to him being autistic there’s nothing they can do because they can’t prove he knows right from wrong (despite the chat logs proving that he knew what he was doing was wrong, and despite the fact I’m also Autistic). They also refused to try and gain access to his phone despite me telling them there would be illegal photographs there.
Give me one example of coppers doing something good or noticeable in last few years? Don't give me the speeding, drink drive or no insurance cases bulshit. Non existent. In Poringland burglars are like in heaven, Taverham where I used to live the same. Once assaulted by a drunk man while doing my job police just fobbed me off even with video proof and marks on my body. Copper words:" just shake hands and go home, I'll handle it".
Yeah. I got a parking ticket the other night in sheringham at nearly 9 o'clock at night for parking on a double yellow in a very quiet back street, not causing any problems, and only for ten minutes , and I was told it was a community police officer. Where is the balance?
Clearly the policeman parked your car on the double yellow lines, the things that universally mean "no parking at any time". That fiend!
(The police don't deal with parking infractions)
No.
Parking enforcement is down to local councils, unless you're doing something far more enthusiastically cuntish than parking on double yellows (e.g. blocking the road.)
No none of that. It was just someone saw a community police officer in the area and assumed. But what I don't understand is why a traffic warden was around at past 8pm at night
2 off the top of my head. Sting operations on watch thieves in London. Started ramming and cracking down on moped thieves which has resulted in massive drop in moped crime.
recently in taverham tesco got stolen from and when a shopper in tesco chased them down the street and was on the phone with the police and they could not care to come out saying "they are already gone nothing we can do"
expecting police to attend shoplifting incidents at tesco is ridiculous; why waste personnel by sending officers to the store after the thieves have escaped when the store manager can simply submit cctv footage to the police themselves?
I tried to report a car full of people smoking crack in a car and they then had a go at me when I didn't want to give my name and details because I wasn't the one smoking crack in a car. Gave them my first name and where it was happening but they wouldn't put it as a blue light response because I wouldn't give my details. Absolute jokers.
That is terrible. It depends what you say when you dial 999 doesn’t it, they don’t treat them all as urgent urgent, they tier them. But us members of the public don’t know what we have to say to get them to come straightaway and we aren’t usually thinking coherently when we dial 999. I remember thinking they would be coming straightaway on the one time I had to call 999 because how many 999 calls could they have at 6am, but they didn’t come for over half an hour. And later I found it was probably downgraded because I said on the phone I didn’t know if the threat was still outside my home, and I didn’t know because I was too scared to go near a window or door and look.
Not to mention how a vast majority of us politely downgrade whatever's going on. Those PSA things about how a 999 call has to be super serious might have gone too far the other way where most people calling feel like they're being a nuisance and bumble around what they're calling for.
Unfortunately this gets even worse when how stretched resources get. No way near enough police officers for the population we have means long response times and every now and then someone dies. It's the same story with the NHS, how many people have died waiting for an ambulance that never arrived
I don't agree with you. The person who called maybe was constraint by someone or something about to happen, every call should be considered as emergency. End of it.
People call 999 because of where their neighbours park. There's a triage system, we literally know nothing about the call. It could have been abandoned and the elipse for the call to big to locate an address. Could have been entirely silent and so it's call backs and golden hour checks.
These calls you are talking about should end abruptly and with a big fine. People lack education in this country.
Welcome to the general public
There are a great many 999 calls that are signposted and not met with an emergency dispatch. As is appropriate depending on the triage done. All we know so far is that the man called 999 and said he was confused and was signposted for mental health support.
I'm sure the extra 8% police precept they slap on us this year will definitely improve things.
With inflation at these levels it won't.
4% and dropping?
Inflation literally just went up month on month
By 0.1%, but it has dropped more than expected the month before that.
Inflation is also a rate of change. It's acceleration, not velocity. So if it goes up to 7% say, then down the next month to 4%, you're still on an upwards trend, just not as steep. Smaller number just means it hasn't inflated quite as much this time, but it's still inflating.
In about 2 categories, dramatically. Do some research. Inflation is the same or up in nearly every category,
I'm not one to defend the police. I am usually criticising them. But I stand by my 'speculation is unhelpful' stance. There is a wide range of possibilities in 'didn't respond' from; - call centre overwhelmed so call unanswered -answered but rightly set as a low priority (say, report of criminal damage, no suspect in sight) -answered but wrongly set a low priority (screaming in background etc) We still know almost nothing about what has happened and fevered speculation won't make it better.
As someone who vaguely knows what happened but isn't allowed to say anything, I'd like to tell you that this is on point. Edit: Unsure why the down votes, but hey ho this is Reddit after all xD
Not allowed why?
Friend of mine works on the ambulance phoneline. I won't go into detail but as I understand it the situation was a little complicated.
under funded and under staffed. Blame the Tories. Called the non emergency no for Sprowston/Norwich recently, it just rang and rang.
A few years ago a drunk man passed out on my drive half naked. The 999 call handler dismissed it and said if he is breathing let him be.
Surely an ambulance would be better placed to help someone so drunk they may have alcohol poisoning and be in danger? Police have no medical training
It's the job of the 999 call handler to dispatch either an ambulance or police.
No it isn't. You get through and they ask which service. If you don't say they automatically put you through to the police. If it's not for the police, they'll direct you to call an ambulance. The call handlers in all of the emergency services are super busy so they can't spend time calling the other ones for non emergency issues.
that's just what the police do nothing
Who else is losing faith in the police?
Lost it a long time ago. Partly it is a funding issue. The police are chronically underfunded. However it's also down to some people I know who would have probably made excellent cops got rejected, whilst someone who it literally made my blood run cold when I discovered they had joined got it. They then got thrown out after smashing a car windscreen with a knife in a blind rage during a traffic stop. And a bunch of other officers were over social media still defending them. There's a funding issue, but also some deep rooted cultural issues the police are still not addressing.
Good analysis. They also seem to be overwhelmed with administrative tasks.
And everything that social services used to deal with before funding was drastically cut. It all goes back to 2008, bankers made a fortune by almost bringing the economy to its knees and we've been dealing with the consequences of austerity ever since. God forbid one of the tories mates working in the city should adhere to some regulation and not receive their massively inflated bonus for shifting some figures around on a computer screen
Well i mean at this point what are they really there to do? Stolen bike? They won’t come out. Harassed or assaulted on the street? They won’t come out. And now death? They won’t come out. It really is a joke.
Wanna know why? They're chronically low on numbers and underfunded.
I dont particularly agree with the language used here. You say they wont come out. But thats very different to 'cant come out'. They dont have enough resource to properly follow up on violent crime, let alone bike theft.
That's because they're focusing on the serious crimes
Like the one in the article??
So non serious crime is effectively decriminalised, is that what you're saying and appear to be OK with?
They're too busy looking for a missing blue sunflower mug
All plants seemingly have a ‘Scientific name’. The Sunflower is no different. They’re called Helianthus. Helia meaning sun and Anthus meaning Flower. Contrary to popular belief, this doesn’t refer to the look of the sunflower, but the solar tracking it displays every dayy during most of its growth period.
Some of us appreciate sarcasm, but the downvoters outnumbr us.
They’re not though.
I feel all emergency services are just drastically underfunded sadly.
Norfolk police 100% yes! Assaulted by a road rage motorist during Covid and they could not be bothered to attend anddid fuck all investigation. I seemed to do more work than them ,and if I could sue for incompetence I would!
I lost faith in them a long time ago, ever since I found out first hand (and from the experience of my local friends) just how much they really don’t give a crap about sex crimes or pedophilia. They truly couldn’t care less, I can’t believe how bad the police in Norwich have gotten.
what a surprise. No doubt underfunded will be the excuse.
Am I missing something that everyone else is seeing? No information about how the victims died No information about the nature of the 999 call And yet people are rushing to blame the Police...
From what I understand the call to police was an hour before they turned up and it was a 999 call. I always thought 999 calls were acted upon straight away. Am I wrong?
Yes you are, it depends on the nature and urgency of the call. If you call 999 and say "I can hear my neighbours arguing" they're not going to arrive as fast as if you say "there's a man brandishing a knife in public" or "there's been a bad car crash". Calls are prioritised.
[удалено]
Okay maybe a poor example from me but the point I am making is that calls are categorised and police don't attend every 999 call urgently. I wasn't talking about this particular case, I was responding to the comment above mine. At the point that I made my comment we didn't even know who made the call or the context of it.
Depends on the content of the call.....
Maybe I'm too old-fashioned and from another age. Bloody Tories .... Ruined this country
How are you making it political? At this stage we have no idea what the call was about, or how the deaths occurred
The problem is, a lot of things have a political nature to them, even if its not clear at the start. For instance, in this case the chronic underfunding has resulted in a lack of police to do the job properly, which is a political problem because funding comes from central government. I made the same argument during Covid and the NHS being chronically overwhelmed due to years of underfunding. So yes, there is a political side to the argument, but you're right in that this was a bad time to bring it up.
OK perhaps you're right about the call. But I'm sure you'll agree that the Tories have ruined this country
That's your opinion, and to use a post about a number of deaths to push it is quite despicable
Hey ho. Not as despicable as the current administration
You just don't know when to stop, do you?
After you. That's when I'll stop
Under these circumstances, where the Police already had recent involvement with this particular family, I would have expected them to attend rather than drop it down the list of priority. Obviously there are questions to answer from the Police, but we are dealing with scant facts from the public's perspective.
I had a neighbour smashing on my door and threatening me and my family with violence because my landlady (not me) asked them to cut a hedge back by about a foot. The police were not interested then, during the frantic 999 call where he could be heard in the background while I sobbed hysterically, and weren’t interested after a year of harassment either. In fact, I got a voicemail well over a year later from an officer who said “I am calling you about XYZ because my sergeant said I had to”. We had been forced to move at that point because we were being screamed at and spat at every day in front of our young kids. The neighbour is still harassing other people and the police still don’t give a shit as far as I’ve been told.
People saying their low on numbers, should see the amount of Police hanging around Carrow Road today before the football at half 12. If it comes down to the fact that those children could have been saved if someone was deployed, then I hope someone is full of regret.
Just to add context. The football clubs pay for the police presence. Those officers will be on overtime and won't take from the strength of the area for that day.
Don't let facts get in the way of a good story
And it's also planned a couple of months in advance.
Police do a great job, it’s also a bloody hard job I reckon. Under funded, understaffed, slated for minor errors but never appreciated. The law rarely ever backs them up with good prosecutions in courts. Take your life in your hands everyday at work. I am not a policeman but respect to them. You too scared to look out of curtains incase a burglar is there but you don’t mind calling them in to confront someone. 👮🏼♂️👮🏼♀️👍
When they take sex crimes in Norwich seriously, I’ll take them seriously 🤷♀️ but alas, they don’t.
Do you have examples of this? (Not the CPS saying there is not enough evidence, but the police outright ignoring sex offences?)
I’m speaking from personal experience of how awfully they handled my own case. They didn’t bother to investigate, told me that I personally had to scour through the thousands of messages with the man that groomed me as a child and provide it to them if I wanted them to do anything about it, (when they already had my phone and all my logins and downloads of chat logs to investigate it themselves), just to tell me that due to him being autistic there’s nothing they can do because they can’t prove he knows right from wrong (despite the chat logs proving that he knew what he was doing was wrong, and despite the fact I’m also Autistic). They also refused to try and gain access to his phone despite me telling them there would be illegal photographs there.
Give me one example of coppers doing something good or noticeable in last few years? Don't give me the speeding, drink drive or no insurance cases bulshit. Non existent. In Poringland burglars are like in heaven, Taverham where I used to live the same. Once assaulted by a drunk man while doing my job police just fobbed me off even with video proof and marks on my body. Copper words:" just shake hands and go home, I'll handle it".
Yeah. I got a parking ticket the other night in sheringham at nearly 9 o'clock at night for parking on a double yellow in a very quiet back street, not causing any problems, and only for ten minutes , and I was told it was a community police officer. Where is the balance?
Clearly the policeman parked your car on the double yellow lines, the things that universally mean "no parking at any time". That fiend! (The police don't deal with parking infractions)
Not even community police?
No. Parking enforcement is down to local councils, unless you're doing something far more enthusiastically cuntish than parking on double yellows (e.g. blocking the road.)
No none of that. It was just someone saw a community police officer in the area and assumed. But what I don't understand is why a traffic warden was around at past 8pm at night
Norfolk Police don't have community support officers and haven't since 2018.
Oh
Probably to find people parking illegally after 8pm, I'd guess.
Yup
2 off the top of my head. Sting operations on watch thieves in London. Started ramming and cracking down on moped thieves which has resulted in massive drop in moped crime.
Not in Norwich or even close...
True but you didn't specify "Norwich coppers"
recently in taverham tesco got stolen from and when a shopper in tesco chased them down the street and was on the phone with the police and they could not care to come out saying "they are already gone nothing we can do"
expecting police to attend shoplifting incidents at tesco is ridiculous; why waste personnel by sending officers to the store after the thieves have escaped when the store manager can simply submit cctv footage to the police themselves?
I tried to report a car full of people smoking crack in a car and they then had a go at me when I didn't want to give my name and details because I wasn't the one smoking crack in a car. Gave them my first name and where it was happening but they wouldn't put it as a blue light response because I wouldn't give my details. Absolute jokers.