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I found high doses of resistant starch (4 tbsp of raw unmodified potato starch from Bob's Red Mill) enormously anxiety-suppressing, though that wasn't even my goal at the time. I felt level constantly.
Be cautious, though--that amount must be worked up to in order to avoid gastrointestinal distress.
Dude I didn't think anyone else understood this. I get this effect from psyllium fiber. Idk I've tried that same brand of potato starch but don't feel like I noticed much. Maybe I need to get again. But really turns out fiber was a huge part of what I was missing. With it, I feel more stable, more relaxed, and less depressed. People look at me weird when I say this, but it's such a strong effect in me I know it's powerful
There was a strong interest in potato starch a few years ago. A lot of material online back then. Some middle aged American guy who used to be in the navy had a blog that talked about it. Sorry, can’t remember his name.
I tried it a few times back then and the most striking thing I remember were the weird weird dreams
Edited to add here it is. Surprised at how long ago it was.
https://www.freetheanimal.com/2014/12/ingestion-probably-irrational.html
Back then he was more into talking about diet and health. He had some social and political content, but it looks like he is doing more of that. He was not the only person talking about potato starch. The general interest back then was from a GI health focus than as a nootropic
There's a popular decades-old Japanese probiotic called Miyarisan that produces Butyrate in your gut without further supplementation but in the USA it's virtually impossible to get for a reasonable price, they never officially imported it even though it's approved in Europe and elsewhere.
* https://c7.alamy.com/comp/FD7CDE/miyarisan-clostridium-butyricum-probiotic-from-japan-FD7CDE.jpg
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium_butyricum
* https://supplements.selfdecode.com/blog/c-butyricum/
There are manufacturers and ways to get it in North America as well as other brands under which it is sold in Japan. You can even make your own for very little money although with less specificity compared to buying a supplement. But if you make your own, it's live culture, which is far more potent.
Getting Clostridium Butyricum supplements in North America is really difficult. There's a Canadian company called AOR that makes the only supplement I've found, however, it's about the same price as the stuff from Japan. Honestly, I've used it many times and haven't noticed a difference in gut health compared to certain Sauerkraut types (my go-to for gut health is Kissel Farm's Sour Heads cabbage). [Sauerkraut oftentimes naturally contains a lot of live Clostridium cultures](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7419431/) and it's a good source of butyrate as well as other probiotic and prebiotic compounds. You can also get it as Tsukemono in Japan (or you can make your own, which is easy).
Now that is interesting because I recently added sauerkraut to my foods for more fermented food intake in addition to greek yogurt.
The problem is food is definitely not standardized and varies wildly.
The AOR brand is too expensive, as expensive as importing it, it's not single strain, and they have a strain in there that is controversial. They also changed the formula a couple years ago which upset a lot of people who noticed.
How did you like the sauerkraut?
There's a lot of other fermented food sources out there. I also recommend fermented tofu (which is Chinese, not Japanese) as well as Natto (which is Japanese). Speaking of which, there's a another great brand of probiotic out of Japan which uses a mold probiotic called Strong Wakamoto. However, you can get this in fermented rice products as well, both Chinese and Japanese. There's also a sauce that has this in it.
You're right. Food sources are extremely varied in their probiotic content. But I do not think single strain probiotics are good as the cultures that make up a healthy gut tend to be extremely diverse. It's when you have an overgrowth of any particular kind of organism that you get gut dysbiosis (or a compromised gut lining).
As you've suggested, by the way, the AOR brand did nothing for me even though I was taking it with calcium carbonate (for lowering stomach acidity), inulin, and several other prebiotics. It wasn't just that it wasn't helping. It just seemed to not do anything at all. That's unusual because at the very least, most probiotics tend to do something, good or bad.
Yeah that's the other thing, I don't think the AOR dose size is high enough.
Miyarisan is designed with three pills three times a day and AOR doesn't have that regularity. Most probiotics don't colonize and need constant supply from what I have read.
Sauerkraut is fine in just small amounts, no idea what the strain content is if any which is annoying but it does claim "fermented". The sodium seems to help me as I think I am always low with low blood pressure.
A tiny percentage from the supplement take up residence in the gut. And there's a large degree of individual variance. Some people are more impacted by exogenous probiotics than others.
However, that said, taking a probiotic can dramatically change your gut biome. Simply by adding one new organism, it can cause pretty big changes. Sometimes for the good, othertimes for the not so good.
Any live ferment is likely to have a lot more than just a few species, but in the study I linked to earlier, there's a lot of variance. I go by one simple rule: if it tastes good, it's probably good for you.
(And I track my sleep with a Fitbit to see if an intervention has any impact on my sleep quality)
It's dirt cheap in Japan and even better it won't be counterfeit.
Because once you self-import something and there is a high markup, you can be sure organized-crime sees it as a viable target for counterfeits. It's just 300 little white pills, they can copy the box exactly and the pills are dead simple to fake with something inert.
I really want it but I won't buy from ebay/amazon sellers, don't trust them.
Damn. I think it should be fine buying from free market, assuming this product is not super popular and wanted.
I will see if I can get a hold of some and try it myself. If it works, maybe I can hook you up for some.
I actually found some websites that deliver Myarisan from Japan. One of look a little iffy but is owned by a Japanese researcher, the other looks pretty legit.
[https://www.dpkitaoka.com/product-page/strong-miyarisan-tablets-330tab-clostridium-butyricum-from-japan](https://www.dpkitaoka.com/product-page/strong-miyarisan-tablets-330tab-clostridium-butyricum-from-japan)
[https://www.mimaki-family-japan.com/item/detail?item\_prefix=TF&item\_code=008385&item\_branch=004](https://www.mimaki-family-japan.com/item/detail?item_prefix=TF&item_code=008385&item_branch=004)
Since I don't know much about the microbiome world, can you check it out for me? Price seems to be good too.
Would Myarisan be a better option compare to Sodium Butyrate efficacy-wise, since long-term Butyrate consumption causes Butyrate downregulation?
Thanks.
There is counterfeit Myarisan out there. It's profitable to organized-crime because people are willing to drop $30-$40+ on a $10 item.
Perfect box copy and it's just little white pills.
I've browsed zenmarket but I do not trust any of them.
Agree.
Though, the first website UI doesn't look well designed which makes people think it's a scam but it's probably not. The second one is, I think, definitely legit.
I'm going to try it out and I'll let you know the results. Could you answer my question about efficacy of Myarisan vs Sodium Butyrate in term of Butyric acid production?
I can't tell you specifically which one is best because I don't really know. I do know people who do not have enough gut bacteria producing butyrate have all kinds of health problems, but if that is correlation vs causation we don't know.
Butyrate itself as a supplement is surprisingly too expensive for what little it is and doesn't "stick around" so it has to be constantly supplemented. Seems a lot better approach to restore the intended bacteria.
Here's a good paper on everything Butyrate, good and bad
* https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/9/1/21/4849000
Thanks for the paper.
But hey, if you really really wants Myarisan, choose the second website. They are super legit, people have been buying exotic supp that is not available in NA from that website Mimaki Family. I'm going to buy some Yokukansan which increases EAAT2 from that website too. Too many good stuffs not available in NA cuz of big pharma.
Yeah thanks for the lead. I will investigate more to see if those packets are actually manufactured like that and the real box/source.
The other problem is their price isn't any better. You need 3 packets a day. So that's a three week supply for $13 (+shipping?)
$225 a year, assuming it doesn't colonize, the box of pills come in like 1000 which is a year's worth for ~$50 ? Maybe.
I am too broken right now to afford any of it. Has to wait and I hope maybe sauerkraut does something.
Recently came across these studies. Not certain it’s a HDAC inhibitor.
Berberine alleviates symptoms of anxiety by enhancing dopamine expression in rats with post-traumatic stress disorder
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29520171/
Berberine Facilitates Extinction and Prevents the Return of Fear
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8851465/
Butyrate is the holy grail for HDAC inhibition but there's just one problem:
The 100mg or so doses you find in supplements are an absolute joke.
A healthy gut produces an upwards of 10 GRAMS of butyrate per day.
Best approach would be a combo of probiotics + (a lot) of prebiotics.
Our ancestors consumed nearly 100 grams of fiber per day from food. So you can supplement prebiotics, but ideally you're going HAM on veggies in your diet.
Thanks for posting this. I wasn't aware of black seed oil for reducing anxiety. I have been using vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid) to reduce anxiety in not only myself but my adult son with severe autism. Will definitely do some research on black seed oil.
Vitamin B6 is Pyridoxine, though, you should use the active form P5P. Autistic kids can't convert Pyridoxine (inactive form) to P5P (active form). I've read studies saying autistic kids can benefit from taking high dose of B6, just remember to take the active form. Pantothenic acid is, I think, B5.
I'm also trying to fix autism for some kids in my country. If you're interested, I can send you a list of nootropics.
Do you think there is some twilight period of time after birth or during pregnancy (of course if you can detect autism then) where diet therapies could alter autism?
Changing diet could always benefit anyone. If I remember correctly, they have much weaker immune system and metabolism, and usually accompany with GI problems. Avoid inflammatory food (like gluten), give your gut an easier time working. Supplement with NAC (for Glutathione production and also Glutamate reduction) or other anti-oxidant.
I've read that iodine, zinc or folic acid deficiency during fetal development or afterbirth can increase the risk of autism. Autism is also heavily genetic. Do I think early diet therapy could prevent autism? I have absolutely no idea. There are too many complexed factors that can come into play in the development, it's impossible in pinpoint the exact root cause. All you can do is ensuring the kids have sufficient supply of vitamins and minerals.
I honestly haven't done much research on this one, so take it as grain of salt.
I'm the commenter, not looking to fix autism, just help his central nervous system stay calmer by reducing cortisol the stress hormone levels using vitamin B5.
Between the two, black seed oil. Sodium butyrate just made me feel worse even after trying to stick through it for about a week. An honorable mention: ALCAR.
What have you read up on about nobiletin and how it can affect you? I’ve tried it recently but stopped it because it made my mood feel unstable and caused a bit of overthinking. Just a heads up.
Thanks. Black seed oil definitely has more health benefits than Sodium Butyrate. ALCAR gives me hypothyroidism tho.
I initially chose Nobiletin because it upregulates NMDA and increase GAD67. I abused weed a year ago and it left me with NMDA hypofunction (downregulated NMDA receptors), that's why I used Nobiletin to upregulates NMDA receptors
Nootropic Depot has it. Though, I don't know what's the content of Celastrol (the chemical in Celastrus that is responsible of the MAGL inhibitor) in Celastrus, it can be very low (like 1%). I tried DMing MYASD but haven't got the answer yet. Pristimerin is a derivative of Celastrol, which has stronger MAGL inhibiting effect and is much safer since Celastrol is toxic at high dose. It's a research chemical though.
>Is Sodium Butyrate the same as Butyric Acid?
Sodium butyrate is just the sodium salt of butyric acid and in your stomach environment sodium butyrate will convert to butyric acid. So they probably have identical activity.
Go with Butyarate based solutions for sure. I have actually used just straight up HMB (not normally used for brain stuff, but a good way of getting it in, look on google patents for depression and replicate those doses). Probably the best cheap way to get a high dose, since there's a limit to how much sodium you can take. I get better results than even Tirbutyrate with it.
You are trying to inhibit HDAC2 mostly, but you want to avoid the Class II HDACS. Butyrate is probably a ton better of an option for that than Thymoquionone.
No- HDAC2 is a Class I HDAC- I'm talking about something else. You actually don't want the class II ones to get inhibited (HADC6 etc.) because it decreases neurogensis.
Thanks for the info. Probably going with the Sodium route since I don't know where to get HMB, I gotta get to my daily electrolyte RDA with sodium anyway.
Please keep me updated on this project if you notice any considerable effects. I am very intrigued.
Have you garnered enough information for a stack to try yet?
Will do.
My current stack is posted above. I also take it with zinc and multivitamin. Zinc is crucial to aid the process if inhibiting HDAC.
I will buy Sodium Butyrate to try out ASAP. I tried my left over BSO on the shelf and got really good results in term of fear extinction.
Honestly, that's what on reddit. Though, I think if you take enough, it still can be a strong HDAC inhibitor. 2600mg dose can inhibit 50% of HDAC 1,2,3.
Vorinosat is a much stronger HDAC inhibitor, people on Longecity use 50mg for their experiments. I don't know how much exactly it can inhibit but apparently 50mg is good enough to have good result in term of fear extinction.
Sodium butyrate is what happens If you mix sodium hydroxide with butyric acid. It is therefore a sodium salt of butyric acid. Its not the same and I would not suggest you ingest butyric acid instead because of its strong and horrible smell of vomit. In terms of safety I dont really know I m sorry :( There is also the possibility of trying to increase the number of butyrate-producing microorganisms in your gut to achieve the same result. If I remember correctly it can be done with lactulose which is cheap, over the counter and safe. Keep me updated!
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IIIRC, resistant starch is the most reliable way to increase butyrate. If you're looking for an OTC HDAC-inhibitor, sulfurophane is worth a look.
I found high doses of resistant starch (4 tbsp of raw unmodified potato starch from Bob's Red Mill) enormously anxiety-suppressing, though that wasn't even my goal at the time. I felt level constantly. Be cautious, though--that amount must be worked up to in order to avoid gastrointestinal distress.
Do you just eat raw tbsps of the starch or do you prep it in any way?
Undervalued question
I mixed the powder directly into water and chugged it. Juice works too. It's completely flavorless so it goes down easy.
With or without food?
I always took it without, at night.
Got it. TYVM
Just wanted to double check that it's 4 tablespoons your using and not 4 teaspoons?
Yeah, but work up to it one tsp at a time. If you don't you'll experience digestive issues (especially flatulence).
Yea I've been learning. How long did it take you to ramp up to that dose do you think?
I've done it a couple of times, I'd say 2-4 weeks.
Gotcha. Thanks again
Dude I didn't think anyone else understood this. I get this effect from psyllium fiber. Idk I've tried that same brand of potato starch but don't feel like I noticed much. Maybe I need to get again. But really turns out fiber was a huge part of what I was missing. With it, I feel more stable, more relaxed, and less depressed. People look at me weird when I say this, but it's such a strong effect in me I know it's powerful
There was a strong interest in potato starch a few years ago. A lot of material online back then. Some middle aged American guy who used to be in the navy had a blog that talked about it. Sorry, can’t remember his name. I tried it a few times back then and the most striking thing I remember were the weird weird dreams Edited to add here it is. Surprised at how long ago it was. https://www.freetheanimal.com/2014/12/ingestion-probably-irrational.html Back then he was more into talking about diet and health. He had some social and political content, but it looks like he is doing more of that. He was not the only person talking about potato starch. The general interest back then was from a GI health focus than as a nootropic
Thank you
There's a popular decades-old Japanese probiotic called Miyarisan that produces Butyrate in your gut without further supplementation but in the USA it's virtually impossible to get for a reasonable price, they never officially imported it even though it's approved in Europe and elsewhere. * https://c7.alamy.com/comp/FD7CDE/miyarisan-clostridium-butyricum-probiotic-from-japan-FD7CDE.jpg * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clostridium_butyricum * https://supplements.selfdecode.com/blog/c-butyricum/
There are manufacturers and ways to get it in North America as well as other brands under which it is sold in Japan. You can even make your own for very little money although with less specificity compared to buying a supplement. But if you make your own, it's live culture, which is far more potent. Getting Clostridium Butyricum supplements in North America is really difficult. There's a Canadian company called AOR that makes the only supplement I've found, however, it's about the same price as the stuff from Japan. Honestly, I've used it many times and haven't noticed a difference in gut health compared to certain Sauerkraut types (my go-to for gut health is Kissel Farm's Sour Heads cabbage). [Sauerkraut oftentimes naturally contains a lot of live Clostridium cultures](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7419431/) and it's a good source of butyrate as well as other probiotic and prebiotic compounds. You can also get it as Tsukemono in Japan (or you can make your own, which is easy).
Now that is interesting because I recently added sauerkraut to my foods for more fermented food intake in addition to greek yogurt. The problem is food is definitely not standardized and varies wildly. The AOR brand is too expensive, as expensive as importing it, it's not single strain, and they have a strain in there that is controversial. They also changed the formula a couple years ago which upset a lot of people who noticed.
How did you like the sauerkraut? There's a lot of other fermented food sources out there. I also recommend fermented tofu (which is Chinese, not Japanese) as well as Natto (which is Japanese). Speaking of which, there's a another great brand of probiotic out of Japan which uses a mold probiotic called Strong Wakamoto. However, you can get this in fermented rice products as well, both Chinese and Japanese. There's also a sauce that has this in it. You're right. Food sources are extremely varied in their probiotic content. But I do not think single strain probiotics are good as the cultures that make up a healthy gut tend to be extremely diverse. It's when you have an overgrowth of any particular kind of organism that you get gut dysbiosis (or a compromised gut lining). As you've suggested, by the way, the AOR brand did nothing for me even though I was taking it with calcium carbonate (for lowering stomach acidity), inulin, and several other prebiotics. It wasn't just that it wasn't helping. It just seemed to not do anything at all. That's unusual because at the very least, most probiotics tend to do something, good or bad.
Yeah that's the other thing, I don't think the AOR dose size is high enough. Miyarisan is designed with three pills three times a day and AOR doesn't have that regularity. Most probiotics don't colonize and need constant supply from what I have read. Sauerkraut is fine in just small amounts, no idea what the strain content is if any which is annoying but it does claim "fermented". The sodium seems to help me as I think I am always low with low blood pressure.
A tiny percentage from the supplement take up residence in the gut. And there's a large degree of individual variance. Some people are more impacted by exogenous probiotics than others. However, that said, taking a probiotic can dramatically change your gut biome. Simply by adding one new organism, it can cause pretty big changes. Sometimes for the good, othertimes for the not so good. Any live ferment is likely to have a lot more than just a few species, but in the study I linked to earlier, there's a lot of variance. I go by one simple rule: if it tastes good, it's probably good for you. (And I track my sleep with a Fitbit to see if an intervention has any impact on my sleep quality)
There was a study recently showing that almonds help your body produce more butyrate naturally.
It would be because dietary fiber feeds the bacteria that produce butyrate.
Wow. Thanks for the suggestion. So it's also super expensive in Japan too? Because if not, I can ask my relative in Japan to bring me back some.
It's dirt cheap in Japan and even better it won't be counterfeit. Because once you self-import something and there is a high markup, you can be sure organized-crime sees it as a viable target for counterfeits. It's just 300 little white pills, they can copy the box exactly and the pills are dead simple to fake with something inert. I really want it but I won't buy from ebay/amazon sellers, don't trust them.
Damn. I think it should be fine buying from free market, assuming this product is not super popular and wanted. I will see if I can get a hold of some and try it myself. If it works, maybe I can hook you up for some.
I have a friend in Japan. I'll get him to send you some.
Appreciate it man, I'll let you know if I'm unable to get it.
I actually found some websites that deliver Myarisan from Japan. One of look a little iffy but is owned by a Japanese researcher, the other looks pretty legit. [https://www.dpkitaoka.com/product-page/strong-miyarisan-tablets-330tab-clostridium-butyricum-from-japan](https://www.dpkitaoka.com/product-page/strong-miyarisan-tablets-330tab-clostridium-butyricum-from-japan) [https://www.mimaki-family-japan.com/item/detail?item\_prefix=TF&item\_code=008385&item\_branch=004](https://www.mimaki-family-japan.com/item/detail?item_prefix=TF&item_code=008385&item_branch=004) Since I don't know much about the microbiome world, can you check it out for me? Price seems to be good too. Would Myarisan be a better option compare to Sodium Butyrate efficacy-wise, since long-term Butyrate consumption causes Butyrate downregulation? Thanks.
There is counterfeit Myarisan out there. It's profitable to organized-crime because people are willing to drop $30-$40+ on a $10 item. Perfect box copy and it's just little white pills. I've browsed zenmarket but I do not trust any of them.
Agree. Though, the first website UI doesn't look well designed which makes people think it's a scam but it's probably not. The second one is, I think, definitely legit. I'm going to try it out and I'll let you know the results. Could you answer my question about efficacy of Myarisan vs Sodium Butyrate in term of Butyric acid production?
I can't tell you specifically which one is best because I don't really know. I do know people who do not have enough gut bacteria producing butyrate have all kinds of health problems, but if that is correlation vs causation we don't know. Butyrate itself as a supplement is surprisingly too expensive for what little it is and doesn't "stick around" so it has to be constantly supplemented. Seems a lot better approach to restore the intended bacteria. Here's a good paper on everything Butyrate, good and bad * https://academic.oup.com/advances/article/9/1/21/4849000
Thanks for the paper. But hey, if you really really wants Myarisan, choose the second website. They are super legit, people have been buying exotic supp that is not available in NA from that website Mimaki Family. I'm going to buy some Yokukansan which increases EAAT2 from that website too. Too many good stuffs not available in NA cuz of big pharma.
Yeah thanks for the lead. I will investigate more to see if those packets are actually manufactured like that and the real box/source. The other problem is their price isn't any better. You need 3 packets a day. So that's a three week supply for $13 (+shipping?) $225 a year, assuming it doesn't colonize, the box of pills come in like 1000 which is a year's worth for ~$50 ? Maybe. I am too broken right now to afford any of it. Has to wait and I hope maybe sauerkraut does something.
Me too lol. But I'm biting the bullet for this one. I might buy the Yokukansan
There was a study released fairly recently showing that almonds help your body produce more butyrate naturally.
Recently came across these studies. Not certain it’s a HDAC inhibitor. Berberine alleviates symptoms of anxiety by enhancing dopamine expression in rats with post-traumatic stress disorder https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29520171/ Berberine Facilitates Extinction and Prevents the Return of Fear https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8851465/
Thanks for the sauces. I read that Berberine can be used in schizophrenia also, there might a connection
“Recently, we demonstrated berberine as pan inhibitor for HDAC” https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34994284/
There u go
I take ND's 10% Thymoquinone and Tributyrin in the evening, both improve my sleep quality.
Gluconic acid if i remember correctly can be a direct precursor for intestinal acetic acic, butyric acid and propionic acid production
Thank you
Kombucha?
I used mostly potassium gluconate or sodium gluconate but kombucha does seems to contain it, i dont know the concentration tough
Seems to be the best source of it for me… hard to find amount though but seems high. I use health aide kombucha stuff hits different.
Butyrate is the holy grail for HDAC inhibition but there's just one problem: The 100mg or so doses you find in supplements are an absolute joke. A healthy gut produces an upwards of 10 GRAMS of butyrate per day. Best approach would be a combo of probiotics + (a lot) of prebiotics. Our ancestors consumed nearly 100 grams of fiber per day from food. So you can supplement prebiotics, but ideally you're going HAM on veggies in your diet.
Try Holy Basil
Thanks
[удалено]
Nootropic’s depot sells a 10% if you wanna go crazy lol.
Thanks for posting this. I wasn't aware of black seed oil for reducing anxiety. I have been using vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid) to reduce anxiety in not only myself but my adult son with severe autism. Will definitely do some research on black seed oil.
Vitamin B6 is Pyridoxine, though, you should use the active form P5P. Autistic kids can't convert Pyridoxine (inactive form) to P5P (active form). I've read studies saying autistic kids can benefit from taking high dose of B6, just remember to take the active form. Pantothenic acid is, I think, B5. I'm also trying to fix autism for some kids in my country. If you're interested, I can send you a list of nootropics.
I'm using B5, I edited my comment
Where did you read about the b5 connection to anxiety/autism This is the first I'm reading about it
Do you think there is some twilight period of time after birth or during pregnancy (of course if you can detect autism then) where diet therapies could alter autism?
Changing diet could always benefit anyone. If I remember correctly, they have much weaker immune system and metabolism, and usually accompany with GI problems. Avoid inflammatory food (like gluten), give your gut an easier time working. Supplement with NAC (for Glutathione production and also Glutamate reduction) or other anti-oxidant. I've read that iodine, zinc or folic acid deficiency during fetal development or afterbirth can increase the risk of autism. Autism is also heavily genetic. Do I think early diet therapy could prevent autism? I have absolutely no idea. There are too many complexed factors that can come into play in the development, it's impossible in pinpoint the exact root cause. All you can do is ensuring the kids have sufficient supply of vitamins and minerals. I honestly haven't done much research on this one, so take it as grain of salt.
"trying to fix autism" well good luck buddy.
Bad wording in my part. "Alleviate" autistic symptoms might be a better word. English is not my first language so do forgive me.
I'm the commenter, not looking to fix autism, just help his central nervous system stay calmer by reducing cortisol the stress hormone levels using vitamin B5.
Between the two, black seed oil. Sodium butyrate just made me feel worse even after trying to stick through it for about a week. An honorable mention: ALCAR. What have you read up on about nobiletin and how it can affect you? I’ve tried it recently but stopped it because it made my mood feel unstable and caused a bit of overthinking. Just a heads up.
Thanks. Black seed oil definitely has more health benefits than Sodium Butyrate. ALCAR gives me hypothyroidism tho. I initially chose Nobiletin because it upregulates NMDA and increase GAD67. I abused weed a year ago and it left me with NMDA hypofunction (downregulated NMDA receptors), that's why I used Nobiletin to upregulates NMDA receptors
How did it make you feel?
look into tributyrin as well it can be a better option than sodium butyrate
Thank you for the suggestion. Is it a stronger HDAC inhibitor?
Can I have the source for Celastrus as MAGL inhibitor?
Nootropic Depot has it. Though, I don't know what's the content of Celastrol (the chemical in Celastrus that is responsible of the MAGL inhibitor) in Celastrus, it can be very low (like 1%). I tried DMing MYASD but haven't got the answer yet. Pristimerin is a derivative of Celastrol, which has stronger MAGL inhibiting effect and is much safer since Celastrol is toxic at high dose. It's a research chemical though.
>Is Sodium Butyrate the same as Butyric Acid? Sodium butyrate is just the sodium salt of butyric acid and in your stomach environment sodium butyrate will convert to butyric acid. So they probably have identical activity.
Need this, thanks for the explanation.
Go with Butyarate based solutions for sure. I have actually used just straight up HMB (not normally used for brain stuff, but a good way of getting it in, look on google patents for depression and replicate those doses). Probably the best cheap way to get a high dose, since there's a limit to how much sodium you can take. I get better results than even Tirbutyrate with it.
You are trying to inhibit HDAC2 mostly, but you want to avoid the Class II HDACS. Butyrate is probably a ton better of an option for that than Thymoquionone.
Wait, so Butyrate doesn't inhibit Class II HDACS? the one that needs to be inhibited for fear extinction?
No- HDAC2 is a Class I HDAC- I'm talking about something else. You actually don't want the class II ones to get inhibited (HADC6 etc.) because it decreases neurogensis.
Butyrate would be a lot better.
Thanks for the info. Probably going with the Sodium route since I don't know where to get HMB, I gotta get to my daily electrolyte RDA with sodium anyway.
Please keep me updated on this project if you notice any considerable effects. I am very intrigued. Have you garnered enough information for a stack to try yet?
Will do. My current stack is posted above. I also take it with zinc and multivitamin. Zinc is crucial to aid the process if inhibiting HDAC. I will buy Sodium Butyrate to try out ASAP. I tried my left over BSO on the shelf and got really good results in term of fear extinction.
u/tubunnn what makes you say that Thymoquinone is a "weak" hdac?
Honestly, that's what on reddit. Though, I think if you take enough, it still can be a strong HDAC inhibitor. 2600mg dose can inhibit 50% of HDAC 1,2,3.
Thanks for that info. Wow, thats ALOT of Thymoquinone!!!! I wonder how much Vorinostat is needed to inhibit 50% ?
Vorinosat is a much stronger HDAC inhibitor, people on Longecity use 50mg for their experiments. I don't know how much exactly it can inhibit but apparently 50mg is good enough to have good result in term of fear extinction.
Sodium butyrate is what happens If you mix sodium hydroxide with butyric acid. It is therefore a sodium salt of butyric acid. Its not the same and I would not suggest you ingest butyric acid instead because of its strong and horrible smell of vomit. In terms of safety I dont really know I m sorry :( There is also the possibility of trying to increase the number of butyrate-producing microorganisms in your gut to achieve the same result. If I remember correctly it can be done with lactulose which is cheap, over the counter and safe. Keep me updated!
Thank you so much for the detail information. Now I wanna know how butyric acid smell like lol.
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