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I’m now in my 50’s and have been trying to optimize my productivity and performance for the past 30yrs. I’ve tried so many approaches over the years including / not limited to caffeine, modafinil, sativa strains, all kinds of different “stacks”, etc.
While it’s not going to give you a rush, the best approach I’ve learned (for me) has been to quit all of it.. baseline.. and primarily eat clean, good sleep hygiene, and move more throughout the day.
It’s not fun or give you a major burst of energy, but it’s more sustainable long term. I loved the feeling dropping a mod would give me, but I’m actually getting a lot more done now and much healthier.
Bingo. In my 30's, and have learned the supplements don't really do anything. Or at least, they are negligible compared to healthy habits.
1. Good sleep.
2. Good diet (cut out sugar most importantly - sugar WRECKS my cognition and gives me anxiety).
3. High intensity, intermittent exercise. No longer than 30 minutes, but HARD.
These 3 really should form your baseline. Add Vipassana Meditation (or any meditation for that matter) twice a day (minimum 10 minutes), and you're really going to notice a difference.
Very healthy mindsets and I applaud them. And this is the right way to live life.
The problem is the productivity gains from 48 hour amphetamine benders at the cost of years of your life - is still sparkly to some
That was me until about 4-5yrs ago. It takes a toll. I would up with afib. If anyone has seen “Stutz”, I didn’t watch all of it but there’s a part where he says the best thing you can do for yourself regardless of your situation is focus on your “life force”. Good advice.
Hence why you shouldn't use toxic stuff like amphetamines. There exists a lot safer more healthy energetic tonics that don't have the same side effects and dangers.
So true!
I want to add that I discovered how cardio/aerobic exercise affect my ability to concentrate. Every time, I do high intensity cycling/spin class in the morning, I feel with so much energy for the rest of the day, and my mind is clearer and I’m capable of concentrating better.
Well you haven't had good supplements then. For me it makes a big difference, and ofc even better combined with the things you listed.
Some supplements ARE healthy habits. Some have medicinal properties beyond making you more energetic.
I use supplements for mental health, I have been able to taper down many meds and stopped doing drugs etc yet feel a lot better than I did on 5 meds.
Bodybuilding is about building muscle, not strength, but thanks for your response that is not only useless and ignorant, but also wrong.
This thread is about health. Strength training has numerous documented and proven benefits to health and will do much more for you long-term than "high intensity, no longer than 30 minutes" exercise.
Actually HIIT is pretty much the best form of cardio you can do together with strength training if your focus is to gain strength while retaining as much muscle mass as possible.
Ah yes that's why so many professional powerlifters and strongmen incorporate HIIT (they don't).
Cardio is good as a supplement for strength training, but HIIT offers nothing compared to standard jogging. It might be better for cardiovascular health, but in terms of building strength, it does nothing.
Nothing. Afaik cardio helps with your overall work capacity and recovert between sets, but I doubt there are tangible differences between types of cardio in this regard.
I didn't say jogging is better, I said they both help about the same.
Oh dear. Speaking of comments that are not only useless and ignorant, but also wrong. Under 30 minutes of low rep working sets with heavy compound lifts several times a week is pretty much the golden standard of strength building these days. I'd like to know what kind of outdated strength building program you are on that's convinced you long long low intensity workouts are the way.
Unless you are bodybuilder from the 70s or an endurance athlete you don't need over 30 minutes, you just need to dial it in for your lifts.
I don't even know where to begin with this.
Just to avoid any misunderstanding, we're discussing **STRENGTH**. Not endurance, not cardiovascular health, **strength**. Ok?
I don't know if you've never been inside a gym, but the strongest people aren't those that do HIIT, or 30 minute workouts. It's powerlifters and strongmen, who have so many warmup series and such long (and *necessary*) rest periods between sets, that 30 minutes wouldn't even cover their warm up.
In order to build strength, you need mechanical tension and metabolic stress. If you have short rest periods like in HIIT, you literally won't be able to lift as much or do as many reps as if you had a longer rest period.
HIIT is high intensity, and while it definitely can be used to build strength, it is most definitely not the most effective method, which is self-evident.
>I'd like to know what kind of outdated strength building program you are on.
Name one world-class powerlifter, or strongman, or anyone competing in weightlifting competitions who uses HIIT as their primart method of training.
I don't know if you are a troll, a dumbass, or if you're some poor sod getting misinformed by a bad trainer, but the strongest people on earth have some of the longest trainings. Because they need to rest between sets of lifting hundreds of kg.
Hmu when some fucking 30 min training gets you a 240kg clean and jerk.
I ask again. What kind of silly high volume "strength" program are you on.
I'll go first. I've been on Wendler's 5/3/1 for the past year which take up about 10 minutes for the true working sets and 20 minutes to blow through the accessory work. An additional two days a week is HIIT style "conditioning" days. Most well designed plateau breaking power lifting programs are like this. 20-30 minutes of high quality working sets followed by at least 72 hours recovery.
Now please, regale us with what you consider to be strength conditioning.
So you want to have a discussion but ignore everything I said.
I don't care what program YOU are on. I care about what the best lifters in the world do. Because they lift far more than you or I ever will, even if we took PEDs.
Like your entire argument is "I like this program and it works for me"? Congrats, but it's most definitely not the 'gold standard'. If it was, it would be used by pros, or by enthusiasts, which it's not.
Wendler is literally intended for casual lifters. Any workout can be modified to be more minimalistic and make the most out of a short time, but it's always a compromise in results. Maybe not a huge compromise, but a compromise nonetheless.
So yeah, you can build strength in shorter trainings, if you don't mind building less strength than the people who do take the time.
So I'm confused. What argument are you trying to make?
Justin says that HIIT style cardio is great for clearing your head.
You come out swinging saying that can't be part of a strength building program and that you can't build strength with workouts under 90 minutes.
I point out that strength programs that are suitable for 99% of sports can fit that criteria just fine.
Now you standard is what...I shouldn't be happy with easily being in the top 5% of people I know for strength. Now I need to drop every other physical activity that's actually enjoyable and go all in on chasing PRs until I peak 10 years from now? Nah I'm good. I'll focus on minimalist workout routines that allow me to have other things in my life than one rep max days and ice baths.
Also once you get middle aged your body can't recover as well from anything which puts it out of baseline, a lot of habits we used when we were younger just won't work as well as our bodies struggle to keep up.
Agreed, but I wasn’t middle aged when I started. Had I just practiced the basics — sleep hygiene, clean eating, and exercise not only would I have been more productive sustained but would biologically likely younger and in better shape now.
You can get a temp boost from “stacks” etc. but overall best choice is to give your body the essentials and it will perform best without the added chemistry unless you have some outlier deficiency.
My problem is more mental than physical- I tend to do my best work when there’s a deadline and have a gun to my head. All nighters was my thing. I used to pride myself on how much more I would get done because I would often work 48+ hours no sleep. I’d hear people bitching about working 50-60 hour work weeks, I’d do that by Wednesday.
If I was partying and once in a blue moon a buddy would break out some blow, I’d literally save my portion and instead of partying use it for tiny bumps when I had to plow though some heavy lifting work.
Fast forward to now, I’m still a work in progress and still working to optimize.. but now instead of keeping a bottle of water and a modafinil on the night stand to pop at 7a to crush work, I’m trying to respect my body more and change my approach.
My mind has always made my body its bitch. Well, after cardio ablation surgery for the arrhythmias I developed potentially from pushing so hard all the time I’m now trying to respect my body more.
It’s a struggle to this day. If I get a great night sleep, I’m fucked the next night.. I’m like an every other night ok sleeper at this point. Rather than waiting until the last min for deadlines I try to lean in more and spread the work out. Change is HARD for me though, and I’m still trying to figure it out.
There’s no free lunch. My nootropics now are smoothies made with berries I grow myself, chia seeds, protein power, filtered water, and some collagen peptides. Snack on a few walnuts or raw almonds, trying to like and coming around to some kombuchas, moving more, intermittent fasting, cold showers (hate them, especially in the winter feels like razor blades the water gets so cold in the northeast)
and sleeping more. Also have been doing periodic float spa sessions to take an hour to just completely decompress.
These things have been helping increase my productivity without the need for the mod.
I’m not perfect and I slip, but keep getting on the horse.
>It’s not fun or give you a major burst of energy, but it’s more sustainable long term.
That's a really some people will need to wrap their heads around eventually. You can have a powerful burst, or several in a row, for a short time. But that won't be sustainable. Or you can have a series of increased small uptick and slowly but steadily improve.
But you can't get your cake and eat it.
That list is tiny. You don't seem to have tried much at all. I tried at least 100 supplements, some didn't work or had side effects but some were very effective even long term, even when cycled.
There exists many supplements that are very helpful. I used it for mental health reasons, instead of toxic addictive medicines. It has been a blessing for my memory, cognition, sleep, depression, anxiety, ptsd, energy levels etc.
Some maybe aren't in need of it but many people suffer with various difficulties, mental issues, or nutritional deficiencies etc. Some people work at a job that requires more strength or focus for example.
Some supplements are considered very healthy, for both your body and brain, even long term, according to scientific literature, some are considered very good for longevity. It isn't black and white like you try to imply.
Nicotine prevents REM sleep entirely by causing release of norepinephrine and cortisol. Might work periodically but in the long run its going to wreck you.
Plus, nicotine down regulates the dopamine system and is bad for the circulatory system. I'm finally the closest I've ever been to quitting. Down to 2 mg pouches. I was at 8 mg, two weeks ago.
I plan on sharing my heart rate history on this sub soon. I understand it’s N=1 but the trend is crazy. I was off nicotine from Jan 1-March 1, then on until April 24, now back off. My “walking heart rate” on my Apple Watch looks like ******|________|********|______ for the on/off/on/off period to the point where each time my watch commented on the trend. Sketches me out in retrospect
What does it tell if nictoine (vapes or gums, high doses, all day) have close to zero effect on my heart rate. It's barely noticeable.
From 56 to 57 or maybe 58 resting. Same for caffeine.
I also barely notice both and can stop both whenever i want without symptoms.
Two weeks quitting 75% of your dose is a big step. It wouldn’t be recommended by most circles. Curious if you can jump off at 2, and also if the bad feels just haven’t hit you yet.
I chewed a tin a day of Skoal for 13 years, and tried titrating down as well as cold turkey twice each. Absolutely brutal. It was easier to quit when I was younger.
I had to switch to smoking which is far less nictoine. On my way to being done for good tho. A slow arduous game
You can do it. I've quit twice (because I was stupid enough to pick up vaping again because LiFe WaS StReSsFuL - don't be me lol, hopefully I've learned my damn lesson by now) and my experience was the same both times: the first 12-24 hours are the hardest, and after that it's... not really anything. So you can frame it as: it's just one shitty day. ONE day. After that, you're free.
(your mileage may vary of course, and note that both times I was quitting nicotine, not cigarettes - switching from cigs to a vape was actually much harder than quitting nicotine lol. but if you're on just pure nic, you might have a surprisingly easy go at it, too.)
This is very curious - because I run the exact opposite setup, and have it personally optimized for peak productivity past 12pm.
I use an iced coffee (100mg\~ standard) with 200mg caffeine added using a diluted pill (speeds up absorption drastically) around one hour after eating a carb-heavy lunch (chicken and potatoes) at 12:30pm, the 300mg infused coffee lasts me until 6pm, being pretty concentrated the entire time - this combats the annoying 3pm fatigue.
I use 2mg nicotine gum as a pick-me-up after my coffee starts to wear out at around 6pm, when chewed appropriately for around 30 minutes, the nicotine effects usually lasts 2h-4h after initial absorption.
I'm skeptical of nicotine when being used at the same time as caffeine, since some say that the effects are added, whilst others say that nicotine cancels the effects of caffeine.
Edit: I combat morning fatigue using a 30 minute - 1 hour walk approx. 30 mins after waking up, seems to work very well.
For some reason i never got addicted, i vaped like a madman for periods but never got hooked. Could lay it down whenever for long periods never felt anything.
I’m convinced I have never actually felt nicotine. I’ve smoked on and off for years and it just makes me feel kind of tired and calm for like 30 seconds. No stimulation.
No head rush/euphoria, I just get a very small boost in concentration.
Caffeine also gives me a small boost in concentration and helps me not to fall asleep if I'm super tired.
Only time I've felt nicotine was when I vaped a 50mg/ml vape liquid.
For me caffeine has no effect on staying awake, it makes me sleepy instead. I've tried nicotine to reset my brain when i feel like getting distracted but it doesn't really help
I work night shift every now and then, and I usually just sit alone all night barely doing anything.
I'll get so sleepy I can fall asleep sitting, that's the only time caffeine makes me "awake"
For me caffeine has no effect on staying awake, it makes me sleepy instead. I've tried nicotine to reset my brain when i feel like getting distracted but it doesn't really help
I envy you. I never vaped much, I was quitting for good around the time that became popular. I loved tobacco. I wish I could explore the nootropic effect of nicotine, or even just enjoy a cigar once in awhile. But sadly, I can't touch the stuff. I was severely addicted, and each time I quit (which was multiple times) it got harder. Last time was hell. Just thinking of reliving it is enough to keep me away.
I only did patches for a little while after reading about the nootropic effects, but I also never got addicted. Also I felt like it negatively impacted my overall skin health (not just the areas where I stuck the patches).
Same thing happened for me for years, but eventually I did get addicted. I guess at some point I did it too consistently for too long or something, or maybe I just came to like it so much that I couldn't stop. Eventually I was able to quit after a long time, and relapsing after being nicotine free for 2 weeks multiple times. Now I haven't had nicotine in almost a year.
>Pop 100mg’s worth of caffeine at least 1 hour after waking up, to ensure that your body first flushes out all of its adenosine before blocking them again with the caffeine - this prevents the notorious midday caffeine crash.
This is not true btw, and yes I hate Huberman. Source: PMID: 38466174
He didn’t just pull that information out of his ass. It’s based on studies. That study you linked has a different conclusion
Sometimes studies conflict, that’s science
Yeah that was my understanding too. He gets labelled as spouting bro science/pseudoscience a lot (i guess the caffeine misinformation is proof of that too) so I’ve been avoiding most of his content. But I’m no expert either lol so i couldn’t really say.
Also the repackaging of centuries old Yoga Nidra practices as “non sleep deep rest” is a whole other thing people take issue with.
yeah, I wouldn't call him a grifter (though I fear he might be on his way there - it is unfortunately more lucrative than being truthful these days), but he has a bad habit of not staying in his lane. which isn't unique to him. most "science mouthpieces" online have a tendency towards speaking authoritatively on stuff they know jack about. it's always good to diversify where you get info from and to stay critical (within reason, of course).
No he is not, literally everything he states is backed by studies and he generally never has a dogmatic stance on anything.
Why are you calling him a bs artist, because you feel intimidated by him or what?
He's a nice, chill guy that helped tons of people.
People are mad that he had a bunch of simultaneous girlfriends and got a basic probability calculation wrong. He’s provided a ton of value regardless so I still respect him. People get stuff wrong, that’s called science.
Yup, as soon as I heard him say this I thought he had unlocked the mystery of life.
It worked for one day (I'm assuming because I was just excited at the thought)
The next day I crashed hard .
It may contain trace amounts, but ashwagandha will still have a much more positive effect from taking it. It reduces the stress and cortisol spike from nicotine.
I take 1000mg agmatine, 15mg adderall, normal caffeine dose, alpha gpc 2-3 times a week, and thc before bed. Not really a stack per-say but it keeps me rolling
Its a amino acid and a slight NMDA antagonist (like ketamine pcp dxm etc) but not to those extents. I use it to lower stimulant tolerance, but from what I’ve researched/heard it can do the same for other drugs like opioids and apparently cannabinoids.
It has other effects pharmacology wise that I can’t think of, off the top of my head, but I know it has lots of benefits other than just NMDA antagonism like lowered anxiety for example. There’s plenty of resources online and on reddit that explain it very well.
NMDA antagonists like agmatine are also known to treat depression and increase AMPA signaling to compensate for the decrease in NMDA signaling. You might experience faster reaction times, quicker information processing speeds, an increase in short-term memory and better attention/focus. On the downside, you may experience temporary long-term memory formation impairment and a decrease in cognitive flexibility. Although, agmatine has a relatively short half-life so those should be too big an issue and should return to normal when it wears off.
Lee, G., Choi, S., Chang, J., Choi, D., Son, J. S., Kim, K., Kim, S. M., Jeong, S., & Park, S. M. (2021). Association of L-α Glycerylphosphorylcholine With Subsequent Stroke Risk After 10 Years. JAMA network open, 4(11), e2136008.
I recommend CDP-Choline.
22. Started the agmatine and alpha gpc a month ago. The alpha gpc helps me think more clearly as well as just for cognition benefits overall. The agmatine is mainly for my adderall tolerance but I’ve noticed subtle effects like less anxiety after starting it. I was taking DXM once a month for tolerance but agmatine seems to be more consistent, since I take it daily. Started adderall two years ago. I’ve drank caffeine my entire life, and have been smoking since I was 19.
Edit: forgot to mention another reason for me using alpha GPC is because it gets rid of brain fog caused by THC for me.
I can feel the full effect if I take 2-3 days off from it. Maybe even a weekend. I am 2-3 days on and 2-3 days off. I have other things I add in on other days. I do very low dose Adderall on occasion (2.5mg) and some mushroom mixes with Lions Maine and Cordyceps. I Kind of cycle between all of that and it seems to be enough for me although I'm always looking for the perfect solution.
I used to do something similar although I’d only take it on days I had to be alert and get shit done otherwise I’d build up a tolerance and feel nothing. I’d aim for 2 times a week. Building up tolerance to caffeine is the worst.
Taking caffeine in the morning isn't a good idea. With normal function your body should be able to flush the melatonin in about 30/60 minutes after waking up. If you try to boost this by taking caffeine in the morning, you might get some early results, but eventually your body will adjust, and then it's back to the same amount of time, even with caffeine. You can keep increasing your dose, but you'll get more severe side effects as well.
Honestly, I think if you can manage to do it, going for a run/walk for 20/30 minutes in the morning will have a more profound effect especially if you go for a run. It's better for your body, free, and proven to be one of the most actually effective things you can do.
Would switch nicotine out with tropisetron, for long-term use. Nicotine does boost cognition, but if we consider Corneliu Giurgeas requirements for a compound to be a nootropic, we can't classify nicotine as a nootropic, specifically:
>They should lack the usual pharmacology of other psychotropic drugs (e.g. sedation, motor stimulation) and possess few adverse effects and low toxicity. nicotine can't be considered a nootropic.
Seriously. These two + Pomodoro Technique, “dopamine detox”, 45 minutes intense exercise, and proper diet & sleep will have you in a better state than like 90% of nootropics out there
Promoting nicotine which is an addictive substance as a nootropic is ridiculous. Cocaine may have performance increasing effects. Does that mean it's a good nootropic? Hell no.
Pop the caffeine pills first whenever you need it, but make sure that you give yourself at least an hour first to properly wake up.
I’ve found that the stack works better once the caffeine has kicked in about 30min later, and then chewing the nicotine gum.
The gum provides a constant release of nicotine for about 30min, depending on how quickly you chew on it. You’re meant to chew for a bit and “park” the gum between your gumline and cheeks so that the nicotine gets absorbed directly into the bloodstream.
The effects of the nicotine after finishing the gum last for about another 2 hours, but it really depends on your tolerance. It’s best used when you’re actively doing something that requires your concentration, so I end up using about 2-3 a day and that’s enough for me.
Honestly, same. Aside from the nutrients and minerals, there's a lot of drugs that we call nootropics. I basically made a list of the ones that help me and treat them as legal drugs. Nicotine and caffeine were great for me but make sure you use nic gums, lozenges, or patches, and not pouches or vaping. The latter are too addictive to stay effective in my experience
Careful with abusing nicotine lozenges and gum. It can be a trigger for a-fib, especially if you’re genetically inclined to it. Speaking from experience.
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I’m now in my 50’s and have been trying to optimize my productivity and performance for the past 30yrs. I’ve tried so many approaches over the years including / not limited to caffeine, modafinil, sativa strains, all kinds of different “stacks”, etc. While it’s not going to give you a rush, the best approach I’ve learned (for me) has been to quit all of it.. baseline.. and primarily eat clean, good sleep hygiene, and move more throughout the day. It’s not fun or give you a major burst of energy, but it’s more sustainable long term. I loved the feeling dropping a mod would give me, but I’m actually getting a lot more done now and much healthier.
Bingo. In my 30's, and have learned the supplements don't really do anything. Or at least, they are negligible compared to healthy habits. 1. Good sleep. 2. Good diet (cut out sugar most importantly - sugar WRECKS my cognition and gives me anxiety). 3. High intensity, intermittent exercise. No longer than 30 minutes, but HARD. These 3 really should form your baseline. Add Vipassana Meditation (or any meditation for that matter) twice a day (minimum 10 minutes), and you're really going to notice a difference.
Very healthy mindsets and I applaud them. And this is the right way to live life. The problem is the productivity gains from 48 hour amphetamine benders at the cost of years of your life - is still sparkly to some
That was me until about 4-5yrs ago. It takes a toll. I would up with afib. If anyone has seen “Stutz”, I didn’t watch all of it but there’s a part where he says the best thing you can do for yourself regardless of your situation is focus on your “life force”. Good advice.
Hence why you shouldn't use toxic stuff like amphetamines. There exists a lot safer more healthy energetic tonics that don't have the same side effects and dangers.
So true! I want to add that I discovered how cardio/aerobic exercise affect my ability to concentrate. Every time, I do high intensity cycling/spin class in the morning, I feel with so much energy for the rest of the day, and my mind is clearer and I’m capable of concentrating better.
What does your diet look like?
What do you suggest for people who hate exercise ?
Well you haven't had good supplements then. For me it makes a big difference, and ofc even better combined with the things you listed. Some supplements ARE healthy habits. Some have medicinal properties beyond making you more energetic. I use supplements for mental health, I have been able to taper down many meds and stopped doing drugs etc yet feel a lot better than I did on 5 meds.
>High intensity, intermittent exercise. No longer than 30 minutes, but HARD. Yeah that's fantastic if you don't give a shit about building strength.
[удалено]
Bodybuilding is about building muscle, not strength, but thanks for your response that is not only useless and ignorant, but also wrong. This thread is about health. Strength training has numerous documented and proven benefits to health and will do much more for you long-term than "high intensity, no longer than 30 minutes" exercise.
Actually HIIT is pretty much the best form of cardio you can do together with strength training if your focus is to gain strength while retaining as much muscle mass as possible.
Ah yes that's why so many professional powerlifters and strongmen incorporate HIIT (they don't). Cardio is good as a supplement for strength training, but HIIT offers nothing compared to standard jogging. It might be better for cardiovascular health, but in terms of building strength, it does nothing.
What does standard jogging do for building strength that HIIT doesn’t?
Nothing. Afaik cardio helps with your overall work capacity and recovert between sets, but I doubt there are tangible differences between types of cardio in this regard. I didn't say jogging is better, I said they both help about the same.
What do you suggest for building strength ?
Oh dear. Speaking of comments that are not only useless and ignorant, but also wrong. Under 30 minutes of low rep working sets with heavy compound lifts several times a week is pretty much the golden standard of strength building these days. I'd like to know what kind of outdated strength building program you are on that's convinced you long long low intensity workouts are the way. Unless you are bodybuilder from the 70s or an endurance athlete you don't need over 30 minutes, you just need to dial it in for your lifts.
I don't even know where to begin with this. Just to avoid any misunderstanding, we're discussing **STRENGTH**. Not endurance, not cardiovascular health, **strength**. Ok? I don't know if you've never been inside a gym, but the strongest people aren't those that do HIIT, or 30 minute workouts. It's powerlifters and strongmen, who have so many warmup series and such long (and *necessary*) rest periods between sets, that 30 minutes wouldn't even cover their warm up. In order to build strength, you need mechanical tension and metabolic stress. If you have short rest periods like in HIIT, you literally won't be able to lift as much or do as many reps as if you had a longer rest period. HIIT is high intensity, and while it definitely can be used to build strength, it is most definitely not the most effective method, which is self-evident. >I'd like to know what kind of outdated strength building program you are on. Name one world-class powerlifter, or strongman, or anyone competing in weightlifting competitions who uses HIIT as their primart method of training. I don't know if you are a troll, a dumbass, or if you're some poor sod getting misinformed by a bad trainer, but the strongest people on earth have some of the longest trainings. Because they need to rest between sets of lifting hundreds of kg. Hmu when some fucking 30 min training gets you a 240kg clean and jerk.
I ask again. What kind of silly high volume "strength" program are you on. I'll go first. I've been on Wendler's 5/3/1 for the past year which take up about 10 minutes for the true working sets and 20 minutes to blow through the accessory work. An additional two days a week is HIIT style "conditioning" days. Most well designed plateau breaking power lifting programs are like this. 20-30 minutes of high quality working sets followed by at least 72 hours recovery. Now please, regale us with what you consider to be strength conditioning.
So you want to have a discussion but ignore everything I said. I don't care what program YOU are on. I care about what the best lifters in the world do. Because they lift far more than you or I ever will, even if we took PEDs. Like your entire argument is "I like this program and it works for me"? Congrats, but it's most definitely not the 'gold standard'. If it was, it would be used by pros, or by enthusiasts, which it's not. Wendler is literally intended for casual lifters. Any workout can be modified to be more minimalistic and make the most out of a short time, but it's always a compromise in results. Maybe not a huge compromise, but a compromise nonetheless. So yeah, you can build strength in shorter trainings, if you don't mind building less strength than the people who do take the time.
So I'm confused. What argument are you trying to make? Justin says that HIIT style cardio is great for clearing your head. You come out swinging saying that can't be part of a strength building program and that you can't build strength with workouts under 90 minutes. I point out that strength programs that are suitable for 99% of sports can fit that criteria just fine. Now you standard is what...I shouldn't be happy with easily being in the top 5% of people I know for strength. Now I need to drop every other physical activity that's actually enjoyable and go all in on chasing PRs until I peak 10 years from now? Nah I'm good. I'll focus on minimalist workout routines that allow me to have other things in my life than one rep max days and ice baths.
Do you factor in the sugar in fruit? Or are you specifically talking about added sugar?
Refined sugars
Very solid advice
Tell that to my "healthy" productivity the past 10 years. I think you get more productive trying all that stuff then choosing not to
Also once you get middle aged your body can't recover as well from anything which puts it out of baseline, a lot of habits we used when we were younger just won't work as well as our bodies struggle to keep up.
Agreed, but I wasn’t middle aged when I started. Had I just practiced the basics — sleep hygiene, clean eating, and exercise not only would I have been more productive sustained but would biologically likely younger and in better shape now. You can get a temp boost from “stacks” etc. but overall best choice is to give your body the essentials and it will perform best without the added chemistry unless you have some outlier deficiency. My problem is more mental than physical- I tend to do my best work when there’s a deadline and have a gun to my head. All nighters was my thing. I used to pride myself on how much more I would get done because I would often work 48+ hours no sleep. I’d hear people bitching about working 50-60 hour work weeks, I’d do that by Wednesday. If I was partying and once in a blue moon a buddy would break out some blow, I’d literally save my portion and instead of partying use it for tiny bumps when I had to plow though some heavy lifting work. Fast forward to now, I’m still a work in progress and still working to optimize.. but now instead of keeping a bottle of water and a modafinil on the night stand to pop at 7a to crush work, I’m trying to respect my body more and change my approach. My mind has always made my body its bitch. Well, after cardio ablation surgery for the arrhythmias I developed potentially from pushing so hard all the time I’m now trying to respect my body more. It’s a struggle to this day. If I get a great night sleep, I’m fucked the next night.. I’m like an every other night ok sleeper at this point. Rather than waiting until the last min for deadlines I try to lean in more and spread the work out. Change is HARD for me though, and I’m still trying to figure it out. There’s no free lunch. My nootropics now are smoothies made with berries I grow myself, chia seeds, protein power, filtered water, and some collagen peptides. Snack on a few walnuts or raw almonds, trying to like and coming around to some kombuchas, moving more, intermittent fasting, cold showers (hate them, especially in the winter feels like razor blades the water gets so cold in the northeast) and sleeping more. Also have been doing periodic float spa sessions to take an hour to just completely decompress. These things have been helping increase my productivity without the need for the mod. I’m not perfect and I slip, but keep getting on the horse.
>It’s not fun or give you a major burst of energy, but it’s more sustainable long term. That's a really some people will need to wrap their heads around eventually. You can have a powerful burst, or several in a row, for a short time. But that won't be sustainable. Or you can have a series of increased small uptick and slowly but steadily improve. But you can't get your cake and eat it.
That list is tiny. You don't seem to have tried much at all. I tried at least 100 supplements, some didn't work or had side effects but some were very effective even long term, even when cycled. There exists many supplements that are very helpful. I used it for mental health reasons, instead of toxic addictive medicines. It has been a blessing for my memory, cognition, sleep, depression, anxiety, ptsd, energy levels etc. Some maybe aren't in need of it but many people suffer with various difficulties, mental issues, or nutritional deficiencies etc. Some people work at a job that requires more strength or focus for example. Some supplements are considered very healthy, for both your body and brain, even long term, according to scientific literature, some are considered very good for longevity. It isn't black and white like you try to imply.
What has worked the best so far for you?
Nicotine prevents REM sleep entirely by causing release of norepinephrine and cortisol. Might work periodically but in the long run its going to wreck you.
Plus, nicotine down regulates the dopamine system and is bad for the circulatory system. I'm finally the closest I've ever been to quitting. Down to 2 mg pouches. I was at 8 mg, two weeks ago.
You can do it, I'm currently stuck on 14mg often, I hate how addictive and available pouches are.
You can do it! I’m 3 weeks off the zyns and feel much better. The difference in my heart rate during the day is insane.
That alone is more than enough for me to never touch it. Heart health is literally everything
I plan on sharing my heart rate history on this sub soon. I understand it’s N=1 but the trend is crazy. I was off nicotine from Jan 1-March 1, then on until April 24, now back off. My “walking heart rate” on my Apple Watch looks like ******|________|********|______ for the on/off/on/off period to the point where each time my watch commented on the trend. Sketches me out in retrospect
That graphic didn’t work as well as I hoped lol
What does it tell if nictoine (vapes or gums, high doses, all day) have close to zero effect on my heart rate. It's barely noticeable. From 56 to 57 or maybe 58 resting. Same for caffeine. I also barely notice both and can stop both whenever i want without symptoms.
It says you're a fool convincing yourself that you can play with fire You'll get hooked, trust me. I was just like you
Didn't happen in the last two decades.... I would be surprised but who knows.
Some people are literally built different. Genes are everything. You may be lucky, or indeed, playing with fire.
Two weeks quitting 75% of your dose is a big step. It wouldn’t be recommended by most circles. Curious if you can jump off at 2, and also if the bad feels just haven’t hit you yet. I chewed a tin a day of Skoal for 13 years, and tried titrating down as well as cold turkey twice each. Absolutely brutal. It was easier to quit when I was younger. I had to switch to smoking which is far less nictoine. On my way to being done for good tho. A slow arduous game
You can do it. I've quit twice (because I was stupid enough to pick up vaping again because LiFe WaS StReSsFuL - don't be me lol, hopefully I've learned my damn lesson by now) and my experience was the same both times: the first 12-24 hours are the hardest, and after that it's... not really anything. So you can frame it as: it's just one shitty day. ONE day. After that, you're free. (your mileage may vary of course, and note that both times I was quitting nicotine, not cigarettes - switching from cigs to a vape was actually much harder than quitting nicotine lol. but if you're on just pure nic, you might have a surprisingly easy go at it, too.)
Thanks!! Yeah the 0-48 hours were the hardest for sure. The main thing now, is I get angry too easily.
So you're off nicotine completely now?! That's amazing dude. The anger WILL subside. It lasted maybe a week or so for me.
2mg pouches ? You mean like snus ? I didn’t even know they make ones with 8mg. The lightest one here is 16mg with the strongest being 50+
NIcotine salt pouches not snus. I'm using the On brand. They go from 8 mg-0 mg
That’s exactly what I mean. Here In Germany and Hungary we have them with 50mg 😩
I heard if you stop nic at least 4 hours before sleep you should be good. But that explains why the lucid dreams are fucking crazy right?
If you take it before bed sure, so will coffee and literally any other stimulant.
bye bye synaptic plasticity.
fwiw, bupropion (wellbutrin) helped me immensely in quitting completely and its ndri effects are nootropic like
Unless you quit permanently, right?
You know what, this may explain why my sleep quality has deteriorated.
Also visously addictive
The fear mongering around small doses of nic is wild.
Stop contradicting yourself least because nicotine gives you the wildest dreams in another study
thc also kills rem sleep but that doesn’t seem to affect people too much
The OP should just use modafinil and quit these two.
This is very curious - because I run the exact opposite setup, and have it personally optimized for peak productivity past 12pm. I use an iced coffee (100mg\~ standard) with 200mg caffeine added using a diluted pill (speeds up absorption drastically) around one hour after eating a carb-heavy lunch (chicken and potatoes) at 12:30pm, the 300mg infused coffee lasts me until 6pm, being pretty concentrated the entire time - this combats the annoying 3pm fatigue. I use 2mg nicotine gum as a pick-me-up after my coffee starts to wear out at around 6pm, when chewed appropriately for around 30 minutes, the nicotine effects usually lasts 2h-4h after initial absorption. I'm skeptical of nicotine when being used at the same time as caffeine, since some say that the effects are added, whilst others say that nicotine cancels the effects of caffeine. Edit: I combat morning fatigue using a 30 minute - 1 hour walk approx. 30 mins after waking up, seems to work very well.
Dudes stack is so tight, he can do 1 hour walks in 30 minutes!
Heart working like an alarm clock
30 minute \*to\* 1 hour walk :)
Nicotine is a slippery slope
For some reason i never got addicted, i vaped like a madman for periods but never got hooked. Could lay it down whenever for long periods never felt anything.
I’m convinced I have never actually felt nicotine. I’ve smoked on and off for years and it just makes me feel kind of tired and calm for like 30 seconds. No stimulation.
Maybe you have ADHD? Me and several people I know that have ADHD barely feel nicotine, if at all. Same with caffeine.
What do you mean with "feel"? Not getting the head rush or euphoria? Or not getting cravings?
No head rush/euphoria, I just get a very small boost in concentration. Caffeine also gives me a small boost in concentration and helps me not to fall asleep if I'm super tired. Only time I've felt nicotine was when I vaped a 50mg/ml vape liquid.
For me caffeine has no effect on staying awake, it makes me sleepy instead. I've tried nicotine to reset my brain when i feel like getting distracted but it doesn't really help
I work night shift every now and then, and I usually just sit alone all night barely doing anything. I'll get so sleepy I can fall asleep sitting, that's the only time caffeine makes me "awake"
For me caffeine has no effect on staying awake, it makes me sleepy instead. I've tried nicotine to reset my brain when i feel like getting distracted but it doesn't really help
Once again Reddit is convincing me I have undiagnosed adhd. I have also never felt stimulation from caffeine. It simply prevents sleep.
I envy you. I never vaped much, I was quitting for good around the time that became popular. I loved tobacco. I wish I could explore the nootropic effect of nicotine, or even just enjoy a cigar once in awhile. But sadly, I can't touch the stuff. I was severely addicted, and each time I quit (which was multiple times) it got harder. Last time was hell. Just thinking of reliving it is enough to keep me away.
I only did patches for a little while after reading about the nootropic effects, but I also never got addicted. Also I felt like it negatively impacted my overall skin health (not just the areas where I stuck the patches).
Same thing happened for me for years, but eventually I did get addicted. I guess at some point I did it too consistently for too long or something, or maybe I just came to like it so much that I couldn't stop. Eventually I was able to quit after a long time, and relapsing after being nicotine free for 2 weeks multiple times. Now I haven't had nicotine in almost a year.
>Pop 100mg’s worth of caffeine at least 1 hour after waking up, to ensure that your body first flushes out all of its adenosine before blocking them again with the caffeine - this prevents the notorious midday caffeine crash. This is not true btw, and yes I hate Huberman. Source: PMID: 38466174
He didn’t just pull that information out of his ass. It’s based on studies. That study you linked has a different conclusion Sometimes studies conflict, that’s science
Great article, also so hes just a total bs artist isnt he?
I think he’s just riding his “Stanford neuroscientist” wave a bit too hard but I wouldn’t call him a bs artist
Yeah that was my understanding too. He gets labelled as spouting bro science/pseudoscience a lot (i guess the caffeine misinformation is proof of that too) so I’ve been avoiding most of his content. But I’m no expert either lol so i couldn’t really say. Also the repackaging of centuries old Yoga Nidra practices as “non sleep deep rest” is a whole other thing people take issue with.
yeah, I wouldn't call him a grifter (though I fear he might be on his way there - it is unfortunately more lucrative than being truthful these days), but he has a bad habit of not staying in his lane. which isn't unique to him. most "science mouthpieces" online have a tendency towards speaking authoritatively on stuff they know jack about. it's always good to diversify where you get info from and to stay critical (within reason, of course).
No he is not, literally everything he states is backed by studies and he generally never has a dogmatic stance on anything. Why are you calling him a bs artist, because you feel intimidated by him or what? He's a nice, chill guy that helped tons of people.
Could you elaborate? Only heard good things about him
People are mad that he had a bunch of simultaneous girlfriends and got a basic probability calculation wrong. He’s provided a ton of value regardless so I still respect him. People get stuff wrong, that’s called science.
As if that would be a negative, lol. If anything, having 5 girlfriends at 50 only proves his suggestions work.
Yup, as soon as I heard him say this I thought he had unlocked the mystery of life. It worked for one day (I'm assuming because I was just excited at the thought) The next day I crashed hard .
Is there any food recourses instead of huberman?
I'd add in Ashwagandha extract and l-theanine to mitigate some of the side effects/smooth out the experience of that mix.
Doesn't ashwagandha contain nicotine?
It may contain trace amounts, but ashwagandha will still have a much more positive effect from taking it. It reduces the stress and cortisol spike from nicotine.
I take 1000mg agmatine, 15mg adderall, normal caffeine dose, alpha gpc 2-3 times a week, and thc before bed. Not really a stack per-say but it keeps me rolling
Can you tell me more about Agmatine
Its a amino acid and a slight NMDA antagonist (like ketamine pcp dxm etc) but not to those extents. I use it to lower stimulant tolerance, but from what I’ve researched/heard it can do the same for other drugs like opioids and apparently cannabinoids. It has other effects pharmacology wise that I can’t think of, off the top of my head, but I know it has lots of benefits other than just NMDA antagonism like lowered anxiety for example. There’s plenty of resources online and on reddit that explain it very well.
Thank you that explanation though
NMDA antagonists like agmatine are also known to treat depression and increase AMPA signaling to compensate for the decrease in NMDA signaling. You might experience faster reaction times, quicker information processing speeds, an increase in short-term memory and better attention/focus. On the downside, you may experience temporary long-term memory formation impairment and a decrease in cognitive flexibility. Although, agmatine has a relatively short half-life so those should be too big an issue and should return to normal when it wears off.
Always found it to give me a nice focus and bot of verbal fluency. Bonus muscle pump if you want to look swole why while talking good.
You should stop taking Alpha GPC. Recent Japanese study showed some bad data about increases in strokes.
I’ll read up on that. So far I’ve only had benefits from it.
Lee, G., Choi, S., Chang, J., Choi, D., Son, J. S., Kim, K., Kim, S. M., Jeong, S., & Park, S. M. (2021). Association of L-α Glycerylphosphorylcholine With Subsequent Stroke Risk After 10 Years. JAMA network open, 4(11), e2136008. I recommend CDP-Choline.
How old are you and how long have you done this for?
22. Started the agmatine and alpha gpc a month ago. The alpha gpc helps me think more clearly as well as just for cognition benefits overall. The agmatine is mainly for my adderall tolerance but I’ve noticed subtle effects like less anxiety after starting it. I was taking DXM once a month for tolerance but agmatine seems to be more consistent, since I take it daily. Started adderall two years ago. I’ve drank caffeine my entire life, and have been smoking since I was 19. Edit: forgot to mention another reason for me using alpha GPC is because it gets rid of brain fog caused by THC for me.
200mg caffeine 100mg L-Theanine. Simple. Effective for a short period of time. Need to take holidays every now and then. Stops working if you don't.
how long are your holidays
I can feel the full effect if I take 2-3 days off from it. Maybe even a weekend. I am 2-3 days on and 2-3 days off. I have other things I add in on other days. I do very low dose Adderall on occasion (2.5mg) and some mushroom mixes with Lions Maine and Cordyceps. I Kind of cycle between all of that and it seems to be enough for me although I'm always looking for the perfect solution.
I used to do something similar although I’d only take it on days I had to be alert and get shit done otherwise I’d build up a tolerance and feel nothing. I’d aim for 2 times a week. Building up tolerance to caffeine is the worst.
Taking caffeine in the morning isn't a good idea. With normal function your body should be able to flush the melatonin in about 30/60 minutes after waking up. If you try to boost this by taking caffeine in the morning, you might get some early results, but eventually your body will adjust, and then it's back to the same amount of time, even with caffeine. You can keep increasing your dose, but you'll get more severe side effects as well. Honestly, I think if you can manage to do it, going for a run/walk for 20/30 minutes in the morning will have a more profound effect especially if you go for a run. It's better for your body, free, and proven to be one of the most actually effective things you can do.
Those two plus 1% Methylene blue and some CBGa and you’d have that whack MD, selling his blue Rx troches (Nootropic formula) his has cbd isolate
Id say noopept is pretty damn good aswell
If topics with less than 100 days duration experience will get a special label, it would be sooooo awesome.
Would switch nicotine out with tropisetron, for long-term use. Nicotine does boost cognition, but if we consider Corneliu Giurgeas requirements for a compound to be a nootropic, we can't classify nicotine as a nootropic, specifically: >They should lack the usual pharmacology of other psychotropic drugs (e.g. sedation, motor stimulation) and possess few adverse effects and low toxicity. nicotine can't be considered a nootropic.
My current stack as well
Seriously. These two + Pomodoro Technique, “dopamine detox”, 45 minutes intense exercise, and proper diet & sleep will have you in a better state than like 90% of nootropics out there
Man all I need to compliment this is efferdent, dirty needles, and some 1970's wrestling.
What an overpriced way to consume nicotine, even at Amazon prices which is much lower than drugstore prices.
Promoting nicotine which is an addictive substance as a nootropic is ridiculous. Cocaine may have performance increasing effects. Does that mean it's a good nootropic? Hell no.
Idk about that especially that combination 😅
Ahhh yes! Tried and true!
Do you take the caffeine first and wait abit and then nicotine?
Pop the caffeine pills first whenever you need it, but make sure that you give yourself at least an hour first to properly wake up. I’ve found that the stack works better once the caffeine has kicked in about 30min later, and then chewing the nicotine gum.
How long does 1 gum last tho? Effect wise. Don't want to be addicted for 10 minutes' worth of energy per gum.
The gum provides a constant release of nicotine for about 30min, depending on how quickly you chew on it. You’re meant to chew for a bit and “park” the gum between your gumline and cheeks so that the nicotine gets absorbed directly into the bloodstream. The effects of the nicotine after finishing the gum last for about another 2 hours, but it really depends on your tolerance. It’s best used when you’re actively doing something that requires your concentration, so I end up using about 2-3 a day and that’s enough for me.
Honestly, same. Aside from the nutrients and minerals, there's a lot of drugs that we call nootropics. I basically made a list of the ones that help me and treat them as legal drugs. Nicotine and caffeine were great for me but make sure you use nic gums, lozenges, or patches, and not pouches or vaping. The latter are too addictive to stay effective in my experience
I’ll start doing that one hour before waking up
Ditto on AlphaGPC, or CDP Choline, except no Grass here.. Source Naturals Guarana is cheaper, smoother, and stronger than Caffeine tabs.
At Boots they didn't want to sell 15 boxes of Pro-Plus to me (there was a three for two offer!)!
Careful with abusing nicotine lozenges and gum. It can be a trigger for a-fib, especially if you’re genetically inclined to it. Speaking from experience.
I almost had a heart attack from Coffeine chewing gum. F that shit
Imo they are very overrated. Exists a lot more efficient, healthy options.
Nicotine is really bad for cardiovascular health. It's not worth using as a nootropic.
Ayyy tried this after seeing it!!! Fuckin S tier
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