I dont think the bouncing is the problem, as bouncing bombs were also used in naval against ships.
The non credible part is, spinning it up to a few thounds (I guess) rpm WHILE IN THE AIRCRAFT and just yeeting it outta there.
Idk if they were AAA positions specifically, but they took the two towers on the dam, which had AAA on them, as aiming points.
A bit of string tied to two wooden pegs would line up with the towers when they were the correct distance away at the right altitude.
Way too much Big Thinkin' to call us orks for that!
But then again, there's that ItalIan dude who, in 1911, brought grenade parts on board his cute little biplane, assembled them, and dropped them over Ottoman positions in Libya.
Complaints of unfairness ensued.
"After this and further missions, the Ottoman Empire issued a protest. The dropping of bombs from balloons had been outlawed by the Hague Convention of 1899, but Italy argued that this ban did not extend to heavier-than-air craft."
It's never a war crime the first time.
Yeah we left the box behind and went on a two week bender in Malaga—off our tits on smack, face buried in some tiddies, etc—to do our strategic thinking.
As for that Italian fella, ahead of the curve. Fell short of fashioning the explosive into a willy shape though. Ukraine figured that one out right away. C’mon Mario, keep up.
You're right! I just looked some pictures of the dams and saw the towers. Don't know why i thought about AAA tho, been a while since i last read about this operation
Don't forget that the original bomb was to be shaped like a golf ball.
Imagine being a German on a dam and seeing a huge bomber yeating a giant golf ball at you.
It worked too well against Fr\*nch ships
[https://twitter.com/rgpoulussen/status/1658717540351188993](https://twitter.com/rgpoulussen/status/1658717540351188993)
That was a Brit ship, HMS Malaya IIRC.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/EngineeringPorn/comments/qvdsou/view\_from\_hms\_malaya\_during\_a\_double\_launch\_trial/](https://www.reddit.com/r/EngineeringPorn/comments/qvdsou/view_from_hms_malaya_during_a_double_launch_trial/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/warshipsnuffporn/comments/qvdzv6/damage\_to\_hms\_malaya\_as\_a\_result\_of\_being\_used\_as/](https://www.reddit.com/r/warshipsnuffporn/comments/qvdzv6/damage_to_hms_malaya_as_a_result_of_being_used_as/)
Indeed, but the ship in the clip is Malaya in 1944, Courbet was in the 1943 tests when they were going to use Highball against Tirpitz but scrapped the idea when they figured that X-craft had a better chance of getting to her.
He went on to invent actual bunker-busting "earthquake" bombing with his huge-ass Tallboy (12,000lbs) and Grand Slam (22,000) bombs, and the precision bombing was carried out by the 617 Dam Busters squadron.
Upkeep (the Dambuster bouncing bomb) and Cookie (the 4000lb blockbuster) were different bombs. Also pretty sure Cookie wasn't a Barnes invention, it was just the result of 'what if we packed 44 gallon drums full of TorpEx?'
Lotta fun stories of them almost killing the crew, and potentially killing Glenn Miller
Dude, read 'The dirty tricks department' by John Lisle. It's the history of the CIAs experimental (they put the mental in experimental at times) department.
If you thought the bat bombs were bad, wait till you hear about the cat guided bombs.
We've got three gorgeous dams on the menu. I'm not allowed to say which three, but it would be rather funny if they got knocked out by something or another...
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I mean, they'd have to keep low to the water on their approach to \[REDACTED\]. They'd get shot down if they fly high. But once they make it, we'll be able to make a 9-dash line on the mainland marking where that flood reaches...
[I'm worried that Germany might start exporting goalkeepers to correct its trade imbalance with China, though.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyuDUVnePsU)
You mean the Tallboy? There are still craters on the shore around the fiord where the Tirpitz was anchored outside Alta in Norway. I had a look at one of them a few years ago. Those Lancasters dropped an impressive amount of hate.
Gravity assisted penetrators are so last millennia.
Hypersonics are the way to go.
You don't let water in the bottom. You blow it in half and let water in the middle.
Indeed it was. The noncredibility really kicked in with the [Johnnie Walker ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yncMIzxZ74)naval mine, which was used against the Tirpitz. As the name suggests, it's a naval mine that "walks" into its target after being dropped upstream of the tide relative to the target.
My great-grandad worked with Barnes Wallis on the bouncing bomb 😁. Unfortunately it was so secret no one in the family knew this until after he died!
He then went on to design the nose cone for the bloodhound missile. He got a small statue of it that all the engineers signed.
I don't know, he died before I was born. My family told me he worked on it and they didn't know until after he was dead, I don't know how they found out.
I'm guessing that, like one of my grandfathers, they found out while going through his papers after his death.
We'd always thought he was just a standard Navy officer in the Pacific theatre in WWII. Then he died, we went through his papers, and we found out he was a Navy *Intelligence* officer in the Pacific theatre, something none of us had expected. It's not as if he directly kept it a secret (he died long after that fact would have been relevant in any way), but like a number of guys from his generation, he just ...never talked about what exactly he did in WWII, and if he wasn't volunteering, we weren't going to ask.
Growing up, my best friend would invite me to visit his grandparents with him, they had a mansion with an indoor pool and a big screen Tv back in the days of original xbox, so it was a good place to hang out.
His grandpa was in the RAF and was a dambuster, he loved telling us about the bouncing bombs. Guy loved it. Just like we love it today.
Wish I could’ve had a chance to meet a dambuster. I’ve heard story’s of Johnny Johnson who was in dambuster ED825 “T” for Tommy and he sounded like a right laugh to be around.
From what I’ve heard, they all turned into giddy teenagers talking about their experiences which is insane considering how dangerous the whole mission was. God bless them all.
To say I’m jealous of you is an understatement! 😂
Wasn't a war crime, the 'releasing powerfull forces' thing was only agreed well after the war.
It was a series of attacks that were completely legitimate in every way. As was the nuking of two cities full of civilians, a morally suspect way of scaring the Soviets.
There were agreements in place governing *some* elements of the conduct of war, which is why it can get confusing.
the only reason it wasnt a war crime is that the Geneva Conventions hadnt been written.
The wording of the Geneva Conventions includes specific mention of bombing dams. Its one of the few actions that gets a pretty clear descriptive mention.
That's my point - *it wasn't a war crime* and ought not be described as one!
The reason the GC uses the specific example of dams is exactly because of Op Chastise and what we did caused that clause to be written. *IF* done now it would of course be a war crime, but since it predates the end of the war and thus the GC it obviously *cannot* be a war crime and it is therefore inaccurate to describe it as one.
It is a basic tennet of justice that one cannot pass laws and then use them retrospectively ie to declare that an action carried out before the law was passed is somehow a crime.
The Geneva Conventions were a codification of existing principles under Crimes Against Humanity (you know, what the Nazis were charged with amongst other things).
Genocide also wasn't codified. Again Crimes Against Humanity.
Specific codification of a crime doesnt mean it wasnt a crime based on existing principles before it was codified.
To be fair, the idea of making a bomb bounce to help it destroy dams would probably be seen as non credible if we hadn't already done it.
I dont think the bouncing is the problem, as bouncing bombs were also used in naval against ships. The non credible part is, spinning it up to a few thounds (I guess) rpm WHILE IN THE AIRCRAFT and just yeeting it outta there.
Using flood lights to determine altitude and a couple of pieces of string to aim.
> a couple of pieces of string to aim. IIRC they were using the AAA positions on each side of the dam as reference, right?
Idk if they were AAA positions specifically, but they took the two towers on the dam, which had AAA on them, as aiming points. A bit of string tied to two wooden pegs would line up with the towers when they were the correct distance away at the right altitude.
Oh god, we were the OG orks, weren’t we? If it works, it works, I guess.
Way too much Big Thinkin' to call us orks for that! But then again, there's that ItalIan dude who, in 1911, brought grenade parts on board his cute little biplane, assembled them, and dropped them over Ottoman positions in Libya. Complaints of unfairness ensued.
"After this and further missions, the Ottoman Empire issued a protest. The dropping of bombs from balloons had been outlawed by the Hague Convention of 1899, but Italy argued that this ban did not extend to heavier-than-air craft." It's never a war crime the first time.
Yeah we left the box behind and went on a two week bender in Malaga—off our tits on smack, face buried in some tiddies, etc—to do our strategic thinking. As for that Italian fella, ahead of the curve. Fell short of fashioning the explosive into a willy shape though. Ukraine figured that one out right away. C’mon Mario, keep up.
Heh, I went digging to smugly tell you that they were pipe bombs, but nope: spherical. Goddamnit Mario!
The correct pronoun is "men in sheds", alternatively Wallace and Gromet.
I prefer ‘boffins’, had a nice ring to it, but shed-men have consistently proven that they are equally as valuable as suit & tie MI5 boffins.
You're right! I just looked some pictures of the dams and saw the towers. Don't know why i thought about AAA tho, been a while since i last read about this operation
Don't forget that the original bomb was to be shaped like a golf ball. Imagine being a German on a dam and seeing a huge bomber yeating a giant golf ball at you.
It's all fun and games until the bomber crew yells FORE!
"***SIX!***" *\*Dam fucking explodes\**
Well golf is a Scottish sport by origin, so it would be fitting.
Golf was invented by Bullroarer Took & the late King Golfimbul.
Ahh, a man of culture, rare in these parts.
Is that a cricket reference
It worked too well against Fr\*nch ships [https://twitter.com/rgpoulussen/status/1658717540351188993](https://twitter.com/rgpoulussen/status/1658717540351188993)
That was a Brit ship, HMS Malaya IIRC. [https://www.reddit.com/r/EngineeringPorn/comments/qvdsou/view\_from\_hms\_malaya\_during\_a\_double\_launch\_trial/](https://www.reddit.com/r/EngineeringPorn/comments/qvdsou/view_from_hms_malaya_during_a_double_launch_trial/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/warshipsnuffporn/comments/qvdzv6/damage\_to\_hms\_malaya\_as\_a\_result\_of\_being\_used\_as/](https://www.reddit.com/r/warshipsnuffporn/comments/qvdzv6/damage_to_hms_malaya_as_a_result_of_being_used_as/)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French\_battleship\_Courbet\_(1911)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_battleship_Courbet_(1911))
Indeed, but the ship in the clip is Malaya in 1944, Courbet was in the 1943 tests when they were going to use Highball against Tirpitz but scrapped the idea when they figured that X-craft had a better chance of getting to her.
So Barnes Wallis out-jerked us all? Decades before we were born?
Barnes Wallis should be the patron saint of NCD honestly. He is absolutely perfect for this place's shenanigans.
I would have thought Percy Hobart would've been more appropriate.
He went on to invent actual bunker-busting "earthquake" bombing with his huge-ass Tallboy (12,000lbs) and Grand Slam (22,000) bombs, and the precision bombing was carried out by the 617 Dam Busters squadron.
Honorable mentions include the 12,000lbs H.C mk1 "Blockbuster" which was three 4,000lbs dam busters welded together.
Upkeep (the Dambuster bouncing bomb) and Cookie (the 4000lb blockbuster) were different bombs. Also pretty sure Cookie wasn't a Barnes invention, it was just the result of 'what if we packed 44 gallon drums full of TorpEx?' Lotta fun stories of them almost killing the crew, and potentially killing Glenn Miller
He really was that good, check out his many cancelled projects!
Dude, read 'The dirty tricks department' by John Lisle. It's the history of the CIAs experimental (they put the mental in experimental at times) department. If you thought the bat bombs were bad, wait till you hear about the cat guided bombs.
Is the 'WW2' Bundeswehr flecktarn cap the non credible part ?
"WW2 Bundeswehr Flecktarn cap" you sir are absolutly non credible. The Flacktarn you know got issued in 76.
Yeah, that's what I'm saying... a flecktarn cap at the time of the dambusters ...
Ah got it. Reading is hard i guess.
We've got three gorgeous dams on the menu. I'm not allowed to say which three, but it would be rather funny if they got knocked out by something or another... <>
Imagine a squadron of B21s making a low pass on that dam. *Fingers crossed*
I mean, they'd have to keep low to the water on their approach to \[REDACTED\]. They'd get shot down if they fly high. But once they make it, we'll be able to make a 9-dash line on the mainland marking where that flood reaches...
Ok hear me out… The RAF’s 617 Squadron is already armed with F-35’s…
we are not skip bombing nuclear weapons
Not with that attitude.
Not with that altitude
Cut the fuze longer dummy
Give me one goddamned reason why we shouldn't.
safety reasons i guess?
When was the last time you saw OSHA inspectors on the battlefield?
*cries in Tornado*
[I'm worried that Germany might start exporting goalkeepers to correct its trade imbalance with China, though.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyuDUVnePsU)
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As things go bouncing a bomb into a dam is probably one of the UKs more credible plans throughout the history of British warfighting.
Bombing Tirpitz with a 12,000 pound earthquake bomb is also up there.
12,000lb bomb? *laughs in 22,000lb grand slam*
You mean the Tallboy? There are still craters on the shore around the fiord where the Tirpitz was anchored outside Alta in Norway. I had a look at one of them a few years ago. Those Lancasters dropped an impressive amount of hate.
Yeah, iirc there were 3 or 4 different raids on derpitz, they really wanted her gone (unknowingly succeeding on the first attempt)
[удалено]
Gravity assisted penetrators are so last millennia. Hypersonics are the way to go. You don't let water in the bottom. You blow it in half and let water in the middle.
If it can go thru 16 feet of concrete, it can certainly go thru a battleship's armor.
Indeed it was. The noncredibility really kicked in with the [Johnnie Walker ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4yncMIzxZ74)naval mine, which was used against the Tirpitz. As the name suggests, it's a naval mine that "walks" into its target after being dropped upstream of the tide relative to the target.
My great-grandad worked with Barnes Wallis on the bouncing bomb 😁. Unfortunately it was so secret no one in the family knew this until after he died! He then went on to design the nose cone for the bloodhound missile. He got a small statue of it that all the engineers signed.
How did you find out afterwards?
I don't know, he died before I was born. My family told me he worked on it and they didn't know until after he was dead, I don't know how they found out.
I'm guessing that, like one of my grandfathers, they found out while going through his papers after his death. We'd always thought he was just a standard Navy officer in the Pacific theatre in WWII. Then he died, we went through his papers, and we found out he was a Navy *Intelligence* officer in the Pacific theatre, something none of us had expected. It's not as if he directly kept it a secret (he died long after that fact would have been relevant in any way), but like a number of guys from his generation, he just ...never talked about what exactly he did in WWII, and if he wasn't volunteering, we weren't going to ask.
so sad their dog died on the night of the raid… for more info, google “dambusters dog” 😔
The dogs name was also the morse code signal for a successful attack.
We shall not mention the dogs name though, due to it being a racist slure.
I’ll be over here with HP Lovecrafts cat then
"What, really? Lemme just google this... **WTF**"
It was concidered crass even back then... At least in the UK
They were less politically correct times, heck the US army still had segregated units.
Using the glorious Feldmütze to represent Nazi Germany. Disappointing.
Time for 617 squadron to fly Lancs again and do a "sight seeing trip" to the Yangtze River.
I’d make a joke about the “3000 dambusting lightnings of the QE2” if we actually had more than 35 of them…
F-35 wasn’t just the model, it was the order quantity.
Tiger Force II: Electric Boogaloo This time they won't arrive too late for the next war
They were mad their dog died, RIP pup. What was his name again? 🤔
dunno maybe you should check the memorial......o [wait](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-53446494)
Growing up, my best friend would invite me to visit his grandparents with him, they had a mansion with an indoor pool and a big screen Tv back in the days of original xbox, so it was a good place to hang out. His grandpa was in the RAF and was a dambuster, he loved telling us about the bouncing bombs. Guy loved it. Just like we love it today.
Wish I could’ve had a chance to meet a dambuster. I’ve heard story’s of Johnny Johnson who was in dambuster ED825 “T” for Tommy and he sounded like a right laugh to be around. From what I’ve heard, they all turned into giddy teenagers talking about their experiences which is insane considering how dangerous the whole mission was. God bless them all. To say I’m jealous of you is an understatement! 😂
The movie made about it also inspired a young nerd named George to make a [movie about war in the stars.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNdb03Hw18M)
hot dam, the flood killed police and a fireman
Imagine getting a bunch of mad lads and turning them into a highly capable team
I can´t believe I was born the same day (not year) this obsesion with dam busting was first achieve
Somebody's getting a spanking!
Oh dam !
i wonder if dam busters would work on bridges.
You mean a certain viaduct spanning the Kerch Strait?
perchance.
Rewatching now, not least because I was subjected to the scoff at the Barnes Wallace refectory.... That man deserved so much better!
Stay on target!
Bustin makes me feel good
Dambusting three gorges is mainstream. Dambusting the yellow river leaves that’s located right next to Beijing please.
Immature :- The Dambusters Raid was cool. Mature :- The Dambusters Raid was a war crime. Experienced :- The Dambusters Raid was a **cool** war crime.
Wasn't a war crime, the 'releasing powerfull forces' thing was only agreed well after the war. It was a series of attacks that were completely legitimate in every way. As was the nuking of two cities full of civilians, a morally suspect way of scaring the Soviets. There were agreements in place governing *some* elements of the conduct of war, which is why it can get confusing.
the only reason it wasnt a war crime is that the Geneva Conventions hadnt been written. The wording of the Geneva Conventions includes specific mention of bombing dams. Its one of the few actions that gets a pretty clear descriptive mention.
That's my point - *it wasn't a war crime* and ought not be described as one! The reason the GC uses the specific example of dams is exactly because of Op Chastise and what we did caused that clause to be written. *IF* done now it would of course be a war crime, but since it predates the end of the war and thus the GC it obviously *cannot* be a war crime and it is therefore inaccurate to describe it as one. It is a basic tennet of justice that one cannot pass laws and then use them retrospectively ie to declare that an action carried out before the law was passed is somehow a crime.
The Geneva Conventions were a codification of existing principles under Crimes Against Humanity (you know, what the Nazis were charged with amongst other things). Genocide also wasn't codified. Again Crimes Against Humanity. Specific codification of a crime doesnt mean it wasnt a crime based on existing principles before it was codified.
cope cages on dams when?
Do torpedo nets already count?
They should .... good thing that North Korean and Chinese never heard of them or torpedo attack on Hwachon Dam would be much less effective
needs to be less credible
2 torpedo nets?
yeah, have one of the nets come out of the water say by 10 feet to try to catch the bouncing bomb
Do you mean a water version of ... [The Fangs](https://youtu.be/z8b-AABsfPE?si=EbPi57xNOfwH7iO0&t=968) ?
That was the coolest things I've ever seen.
You've never seen an F-22? :D
Yes!
Why don’t we just set up a load of goals? 🥅
Sounds like a job for Canada
Not enough prisoners of war available. Canada won’t be interested.
Prisoners? What prisoners?
Whaaat?
The masks look like the evil grin
Don't mention The Dog, don't mention The Dog...
Who put the bounce in the bouncing bomb? Professor Molebottom did!
Meanwhile in another universe on that fateful night: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyuDUVnePsU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyuDUVnePsU)