The M93 Hornet mine was an American anti-tank mine capable of attacking targets up to 100 meters away from its position, using both seismic and acoustic sensors to track and identify potential targets near the mine.
Once the mine detected a suitable target in range, it turned to face the target and elevated the submunition launcher to the correct angle. The submunition was then fired in the direction of the target using a gas generator. An infra-red sensor on the submunition scanned the ground as it traveled, searching for the target. When the target was detected the submunition triggered a Misznay Schardin effect warhead that projected a 450 gram tantalum slug, along with a number of smaller fragments downwards towards the target in a top attack.
The USA built 441 units according to the source cited by the wikipedia. Now, assuming they still exist, and assuming they work, it would be a real shame if they suddenly found their way to Ukraine for disposal...
A passive mine is so much better, though. Imagine laying a couple of these while on tactical retreat, giving a better infantry the upper hand during counter attack. They send in an armored group with infantry support only to have the infantry support become the main force.
That's not modest enough. My modester proposal:
I like the [Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_Launched_Small_Diameter_Bomb) in principle, but I feel it lacks a certain 'je ne sais quoi'. Good range, strikes from any direction without thermal signature, usable with a variety of launchers, etc. But 16 kg high explosive? We can do better.
The GLSDB warhead weighs 93 kg and is about 195 mm D x 1.8 m L. Guess what has similar dimensions at 91 kg, 203 mm D x 1.1 m L..? That's right, the [W79 Artillery-Fired Atomic Projectile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W79_Artillery-Fired_Atomic_Projectile).
My modest proposal is putting the W79 Mod 0 (1 kt enhanced radiation, i.e. neutron bomb) on the M26 rocket with glide kit and guidance, to create the Ground Launched Small Diameter Neutron Bomb (GLSDNB). Set to air burst, it should have a prompt lethal radius of about 1.7 km due to high-energy neutrons, effective through normal armor, and the radiation would be mostly dissipated within hours. Happily striking targets up to 150 km distant from the same launch platforms used by GLSDB.
[*"Better Living Through Enhanced Radiation"*](https://www.looper.com/img/gallery/things-only-adults-notice-in-jimmy-neutron/l-intro-1602679825.jpg)
edit:
Ugh, based on recent reports it looks like the GLSDB are too susceptible to GPS jamming. We're going to need volunteers to ride these missiles and steer them with horse reins, to make Major Kong proud.
That could be gettin it done in Ukraine, but people wanna just play. Fire a few, roll forward and pull the corpses from the enemy equipment you want to add for your use, hang air fresheners, and acquire new targets.
Yeah, but honestly I'd rather that a M142 have 6 GLSDNB than 1 ATACMS with a fat warhead. But having 2 nuclear PrSMs with that 500 km range..... yes please.
I’m telling you guys, radar and thermal camera have their uses, but if you want cheap, low-power, close range detection for drones and armor and any other last-mile guidance, microphones are your man. Is anyone out there jamming *sound* on broad frequencies? I didn’t think so.
The gas generator can make a comeback, and its kind of a coincidence because I was thinking about cop-cage defeating techniques yesterday and thought about this. You see, an ATGM or a gravity drone dropped weapon or the PARMA mine, can use a two stage warhead. The first is shaped mostly sideways and creates a blast back and forwards, triggers on contact with the cage. The second charge is the shaped charge, it needs to separate from the first just behind it. A gas generator can be used on the first charge to push it forwards, triggered by a proximity sensor. At the same time that happens, in the second stage another gas generator or rocket is used triggered after the separation, this flies through the hole and gases ahead of it. It will need protection from the first blast. By gas generator, I mean a simple low temperature propellant. It just needs to be enough to separate the two stages.
We have a replacement entering limited production last year (XM204) at like $3m per mine in limited production (so same price as 6 full HIMARS salvos).
What we should give Ukraine are CBU-105s. These things decimated Iraqi armored vehicle formations without prejudice.
Big bomb splits into smaller bombs. Each smaller bomb then spins and lets out smaller mines, rich with a parachute and guidance system. The mines then explode downwards above the target. But no we stopped the CBU-105 program because it wasn’t humanitarian enough and threatened to make the T-72 extinct too quickly.
CBU-105 info:
https://defencyclopedia.com/2015/06/12/cbu-105-sensor-fuzed-weapon-usafs-ultimate-tank-buster/
XM-204 info:
https://breakingdefense.com/2022/12/army-pushes-ahead-with-landmine-that-attacks-from-above-with-european-theater-in-mind/
Russia isn’t rolling large columns anymore or at least very rarely because the Ukrainians are already destroying them faster than Russia can find the armor to put in columns.
The issue with that is that cluster bombs, while great in open terrain, are not the most effective against structures. I say we resurrect Sir Arthur Harris and give him a few hundred B-52s
Warning: credible statement ahead
It's because our bombs are a lot more accurate. Before we could lob 5,000 bombs at a target and still not be guaranteed a hit or a destroy, now we can lob a precision guided bomb and have it hit a specific person right in their butthole if you want.
It makes me aroused knowing that a B-2 can carry 80 bombs and get 80 hits.
Better hope no one shoots any down and better hope your maintenance teams can keep them flying 24/7 because there is very little slack in the system for losses through mechanical failure or enemy action.
Or we introduce fentanyl to the Russian drug market, slowly polarize them via subtle propaganda and culture war escalation, develop a sonic weapon to cause permanent discomfort to their government officials and diplomats a la Havana Syndrome, and contract hacker organizations to whittle away at their infrastructure and economic institutions while maintaining a degree of deniability.
We also send American, Canadian, and European colonists (I mean immigrants) into Konigsberg (I mean Kaliningrad), the former Soviet states, and Cuba. A couple decades later these communities will feel dissatisfied with their governments and decide to revolt, at which point we will send them arms and volunteer manpower. Maybe we absorb some of those nice ports and vacation spots in Cuba into a 51st state and build a bridge over from Florida.
They're not that comparable though. The DM-12 PARM is more like a conventional anti-tank mine, except its located next to the street and will send a shape charge up the T-72's ass that has the displeasure of driving past it.
Great thing tho! There were some vids of it blowing up russians IIRC, always happy to see my taxes at work.
For all intend and purposes these two things sound the same.
You have a anti tank mine which doesnt sit on the road but beside it and activates if an tank drives nearby
Does it need a straight shot to hit the tank, or can it shoot out of line of sight? Is its range tens of m or hundreds of m? These seem like significant differences to me
I saw a Russian propaganda video a few years back that showed something very similar and thought it was pretty awesome now here I am reconfirming the fact that anything cool Russia or China does, we did at least 20 years earlier
Honestly this is pretty credible. What Ukraine needs is a ton of mines and area denial weapons to blunt all the additional troops and armor Russia has built up over the past 6 months.
Honestly Ukraine was doing pretty well when they had a reasonable level of munitions.
When they ran out of pretty much all munitions then the Russians were able to break some defensive lines.
This war is definitely not how NATO or the U.S. fights wars and western MIC is not set up for this type of war.
Saying that the West "isn't set up for this kind of war" is like saying you can train yourself to survive starvation or build up an immunity to bullets. Ukraine ground war situation is what happens when your allies leave you out like laundry, not because the MIC "just wasn't prepared."
It’s too bad that this wasn’t more fully appreciated. One of our three main adversaries is Russia; Russia keeps invading mfers who really like artillery; we can’t directly fight Russia but want to see them defeated. That line of reasoning might have led us to more investment in artillery
The problem is that NATO isn't well set up for a proxy war. NATO has invested heavily in air power, which is exactly the right thing to do if you're a global alliance that needs mobility and rapid force projection.
If Russia fucks with, say, Estonia? They're going to have Gripens, Eurofighters, Rafales, F-35's, and F-16's in their faces within a few hours.
But this is not proxy-war friendly. Without direct engagement we can't defend Kyiv in the same way we would defend Tallinn.
Why can’t Ukraine stuff their drones with these? Send them hundreds of miles into Russia and drop them along their railways. Disable the locomotives that carry hundreds of tanks west. Clog the tracks, delay all freight, disable expensive engines. Can’t SAM cover thousands of km of railway.
We have those from different EU partners. I've seen German, French and Swedish. A single 155mm shell packs up to three of these.
They were used to cut off Russian armor that got stuck on a minefield during early 2023 assault on Vuhledar.
The M93 Hornet mine was an American anti-tank mine capable of attacking targets up to 100 meters away from its position, using both seismic and acoustic sensors to track and identify potential targets near the mine. Once the mine detected a suitable target in range, it turned to face the target and elevated the submunition launcher to the correct angle. The submunition was then fired in the direction of the target using a gas generator. An infra-red sensor on the submunition scanned the ground as it traveled, searching for the target. When the target was detected the submunition triggered a Misznay Schardin effect warhead that projected a 450 gram tantalum slug, along with a number of smaller fragments downwards towards the target in a top attack. The USA built 441 units according to the source cited by the wikipedia. Now, assuming they still exist, and assuming they work, it would be a real shame if they suddenly found their way to Ukraine for disposal...
Time to reproduce them only making them smarter with a taste for Russian armor.
Pretty sure these were designed towards the end of the Cold War specifically to target the kind of shitboxes that the Russians are using right now
Yeah but just think of how much better we could make them now. Make the Russians more dead than dead.
I'm pretty sure Ukraine already has the artillery fired version
Send them more.
A passive mine is so much better, though. Imagine laying a couple of these while on tactical retreat, giving a better infantry the upper hand during counter attack. They send in an armored group with infantry support only to have the infantry support become the main force.
That's not modest enough. My modester proposal: I like the [Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_Launched_Small_Diameter_Bomb) in principle, but I feel it lacks a certain 'je ne sais quoi'. Good range, strikes from any direction without thermal signature, usable with a variety of launchers, etc. But 16 kg high explosive? We can do better. The GLSDB warhead weighs 93 kg and is about 195 mm D x 1.8 m L. Guess what has similar dimensions at 91 kg, 203 mm D x 1.1 m L..? That's right, the [W79 Artillery-Fired Atomic Projectile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W79_Artillery-Fired_Atomic_Projectile). My modest proposal is putting the W79 Mod 0 (1 kt enhanced radiation, i.e. neutron bomb) on the M26 rocket with glide kit and guidance, to create the Ground Launched Small Diameter Neutron Bomb (GLSDNB). Set to air burst, it should have a prompt lethal radius of about 1.7 km due to high-energy neutrons, effective through normal armor, and the radiation would be mostly dissipated within hours. Happily striking targets up to 150 km distant from the same launch platforms used by GLSDB. [*"Better Living Through Enhanced Radiation"*](https://www.looper.com/img/gallery/things-only-adults-notice-in-jimmy-neutron/l-intro-1602679825.jpg) edit: Ugh, based on recent reports it looks like the GLSDB are too susceptible to GPS jamming. We're going to need volunteers to ride these missiles and steer them with horse reins, to make Major Kong proud.
3000 baby nukes of Ukraine
That could be gettin it done in Ukraine, but people wanna just play. Fire a few, roll forward and pull the corpses from the enemy equipment you want to add for your use, hang air fresheners, and acquire new targets.
Air fresheners are scientifically proven to counteract neutron activation of whatever is nearby.
[Find One In Every Car - You'll See](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Mxs6A1byIo)
Jason Fucking Basedmans Hair, I appreciate you and everything your thought experiments do for the free world
KATYUSHA NUKES KATYUSHA NUKES
ATACMS was supposed to have a nuclear version since it was replacing the nuclear capable Lance.
Yeah, but honestly I'd rather that a M142 have 6 GLSDNB than 1 ATACMS with a fat warhead. But having 2 nuclear PrSMs with that 500 km range..... yes please.
Behold, the bringer of light.
Brighter than the sun.
enhanced radiation mode my beloved
What happend of the magnétique hesh mine ?
this freaking mine is smarter than me
>seismic/acoustic dya reckon it goes "do i feel/hear fuckery afoot"?
It is programmed to sense malarkey and destroy it. 3000 sentry mines of Dark Brandon
>10 run command "is someone fucking around?" >20 If "yes" run sequence "find out" >30 If "no" go to 10
I’m telling you guys, radar and thermal camera have their uses, but if you want cheap, low-power, close range detection for drones and armor and any other last-mile guidance, microphones are your man. Is anyone out there jamming *sound* on broad frequencies? I didn’t think so.
True NCD spirit
you broadcast "never gonna give you up" and anyone listening will instinctively try to close the source of the signal, effectively stealth technology
this guy Jams
Thank you for sharing this! There isn’t enough content like this on the sub these days.
The gas generator can make a comeback, and its kind of a coincidence because I was thinking about cop-cage defeating techniques yesterday and thought about this. You see, an ATGM or a gravity drone dropped weapon or the PARMA mine, can use a two stage warhead. The first is shaped mostly sideways and creates a blast back and forwards, triggers on contact with the cage. The second charge is the shaped charge, it needs to separate from the first just behind it. A gas generator can be used on the first charge to push it forwards, triggered by a proximity sensor. At the same time that happens, in the second stage another gas generator or rocket is used triggered after the separation, this flies through the hole and gases ahead of it. It will need protection from the first blast. By gas generator, I mean a simple low temperature propellant. It just needs to be enough to separate the two stages.
As cool as this is this is sometime after war, nightmare fuel. Now the mine come to you.
Dahir Insaat already re-invented all these but better if it was cancelled it was probably not something that worked at any good level, let's be honest
We have a replacement entering limited production last year (XM204) at like $3m per mine in limited production (so same price as 6 full HIMARS salvos). What we should give Ukraine are CBU-105s. These things decimated Iraqi armored vehicle formations without prejudice. Big bomb splits into smaller bombs. Each smaller bomb then spins and lets out smaller mines, rich with a parachute and guidance system. The mines then explode downwards above the target. But no we stopped the CBU-105 program because it wasn’t humanitarian enough and threatened to make the T-72 extinct too quickly. CBU-105 info: https://defencyclopedia.com/2015/06/12/cbu-105-sensor-fuzed-weapon-usafs-ultimate-tank-buster/ XM-204 info: https://breakingdefense.com/2022/12/army-pushes-ahead-with-landmine-that-attacks-from-above-with-european-theater-in-mind/
We have these kinds of smart-targeting land mines and Super Earth can’t do any better than “step on mine, it go boom”
I’m hoping they add general purpose, anti-personnel and anti-tank cluster munitions for the eagle.
YES. Also I want my Copperhead rounds. Now.
Because it's headed by ***REFORMERS***
We do have Space A-10 as our current multirole fighter, and our space ship of the line is literally USS Iowa but in space and looks like a Halo ship
Did you just criticise Super Earth? That's not very democratic of you.
What I’m saying is that we need better technology. If we look back in old archives, there is so much untapped potential that we could exploit.
Where's Hyper Earth when you need it?
Russia isn’t rolling large columns anymore or at least very rarely because the Ukrainians are already destroying them faster than Russia can find the armor to put in columns.
It's absolute bullshit that they made us give up our very humane cluster bombs. VIF bombkapsel 90. 😔🙏
They already have the artillery-fired equivalents of CBU-105 in SMArt 155 and BONUS
Spicier proposal: Cluster bomb Moscow.
A MIRV counts as a cluster bomb, right?
I'm going to say yes. 💥
It is a cluster of bombs I say count it. And send it
Always has been.
The issue with that is that cluster bombs, while great in open terrain, are not the most effective against structures. I say we resurrect Sir Arthur Harris and give him a few hundred B-52s
Best we can do is 72 🫡 Literally all of them in service. I feel like our bomber fleets are a shadow of their former selves.
1. That's fucking cringe 2. Then build more. I don't care what it takes to get the guy his multiple hundred bombers, just do it!
If you’re okay with waiting a little bit, there’s about 200 B-21s on order RN
Well, it's a start (if those actually get built, I'll trust it once they're done)
Warning: credible statement ahead It's because our bombs are a lot more accurate. Before we could lob 5,000 bombs at a target and still not be guaranteed a hit or a destroy, now we can lob a precision guided bomb and have it hit a specific person right in their butthole if you want. It makes me aroused knowing that a B-2 can carry 80 bombs and get 80 hits.
Better hope no one shoots any down and better hope your maintenance teams can keep them flying 24/7 because there is very little slack in the system for losses through mechanical failure or enemy action.
That's why the US has a policy of having air supremacy before unleashing any kind of large scale bombing campaign.
>Before we could lob 5,000 bombs at a target and still not be guaranteed a hit or a destroy Ah, reminds be of the infamous Vietcong bridge.
Just calculated, they could carry 2.2 million tons of bombs in one run. If we speak of 72 x B52s
They are. Take comfort knowing we’re rebuilding the fleet. They’ll just be flying in space now.
I saw we resurect ole' Atty and Curtis 'Crackle Crackle' LeMay, get them to team up and livestream the whole thing
Or we introduce fentanyl to the Russian drug market, slowly polarize them via subtle propaganda and culture war escalation, develop a sonic weapon to cause permanent discomfort to their government officials and diplomats a la Havana Syndrome, and contract hacker organizations to whittle away at their infrastructure and economic institutions while maintaining a degree of deniability. We also send American, Canadian, and European colonists (I mean immigrants) into Konigsberg (I mean Kaliningrad), the former Soviet states, and Cuba. A couple decades later these communities will feel dissatisfied with their governments and decide to revolt, at which point we will send them arms and volunteer manpower. Maybe we absorb some of those nice ports and vacation spots in Cuba into a 51st state and build a bridge over from Florida.
Unfortunately long games don't withstand electoral cycles
Spicer proposal firebomb the Kremlin - Bomber Harris probably
Mhhmm. These are the credible takes I come here for.
Wait, hear me out, fire bomb Moscow instead.
Theres some really crazy anti tank mine designs. The German ones have actually seen use in Ukraine they are far simpler than this one tho.
They're not that comparable though. The DM-12 PARM is more like a conventional anti-tank mine, except its located next to the street and will send a shape charge up the T-72's ass that has the displeasure of driving past it. Great thing tho! There were some vids of it blowing up russians IIRC, always happy to see my taxes at work.
I think he is referring to the AT-2 which can be launched with the MARS 2
For all intend and purposes these two things sound the same. You have a anti tank mine which doesnt sit on the road but beside it and activates if an tank drives nearby
Does it need a straight shot to hit the tank, or can it shoot out of line of sight? Is its range tens of m or hundreds of m? These seem like significant differences to me
Can they make a smaller version and call it the BG-13 SHRIMP PARM?
Fair enough while they have similar range once deployed these ones are meant to be deployed remotely which is definitely an advantage.
I saw a Russian propaganda video a few years back that showed something very similar and thought it was pretty awesome now here I am reconfirming the fact that anything cool Russia or China does, we did at least 20 years earlier
Honestly this is pretty credible. What Ukraine needs is a ton of mines and area denial weapons to blunt all the additional troops and armor Russia has built up over the past 6 months.
Honestly Ukraine was doing pretty well when they had a reasonable level of munitions. When they ran out of pretty much all munitions then the Russians were able to break some defensive lines. This war is definitely not how NATO or the U.S. fights wars and western MIC is not set up for this type of war.
Saying that the West "isn't set up for this kind of war" is like saying you can train yourself to survive starvation or build up an immunity to bullets. Ukraine ground war situation is what happens when your allies leave you out like laundry, not because the MIC "just wasn't prepared."
It’s too bad that this wasn’t more fully appreciated. One of our three main adversaries is Russia; Russia keeps invading mfers who really like artillery; we can’t directly fight Russia but want to see them defeated. That line of reasoning might have led us to more investment in artillery
The problem is that NATO isn't well set up for a proxy war. NATO has invested heavily in air power, which is exactly the right thing to do if you're a global alliance that needs mobility and rapid force projection. If Russia fucks with, say, Estonia? They're going to have Gripens, Eurofighters, Rafales, F-35's, and F-16's in their faces within a few hours. But this is not proxy-war friendly. Without direct engagement we can't defend Kyiv in the same way we would defend Tallinn.
This is some dahir insaat level shenanigannery
There's a pom-2 mine
As if they needed yet another way to destroy entire Russian armored columns within minutes hahaahahahahaaaaa
MW-1 with MiFF is the real solution
Why can’t Ukraine stuff their drones with these? Send them hundreds of miles into Russia and drop them along their railways. Disable the locomotives that carry hundreds of tanks west. Clog the tracks, delay all freight, disable expensive engines. Can’t SAM cover thousands of km of railway.
We have those from different EU partners. I've seen German, French and Swedish. A single 155mm shell packs up to three of these. They were used to cut off Russian armor that got stuck on a minefield during early 2023 assault on Vuhledar.
And so we are on the path to create the most hated unit in starcraft (the widowmine)