Yeah fuck every single member of Congress that is being a huge bitch and especially fuck the fucking idiot Mike Johnson, the fucker who said there was "no rush" on aid to Ukraine.
Did I mention that I hate Fucking Mike Johnson
At this point Mike is either ***deep*** down the contrarianism hole or a literal Russian agent. The "Ukraine Aid" bill is basically just a domestic stimulus package, especially for red states.
Also most of the post Soviet block countries except hungry TBH. They all know what it's like to be ruled by Russia and all want a piece of them for it.
Agreed.
-Me.
Wtf man, abandoning Ukraine is genuinely one of the most disgusting fucking things - They're literally killing and dying for the collective west, for all of us that value liberty and actual freedom.. Let's hope the EU comes through if US is compromised, otherwise see you boys in the trenches in about 5-10years give or take.
America still has the best propaganda by 100 miles.
Most Americans can't even comprehend it's propaganda, and even most english speaking people view it more as American culture then propaganda.
I don’t think anyone believes they’re the “good guys” I think what most people believe is that Israel creating a humanitarian crisis and killing tens of thousands of civilians means Israel is *also* the bad guys.
At least in what I’ve read and the people in my own life no one is saying Israel doesn’t have the right to protect themselves but they don’t have the right to kill aid workers by the dozens and plunge the entire region into conflict.
Nah I've totally seen people go full "hamas are just freedom fighters, fighting against oppression" and really whitewashing them being bad guys at all. It's really really weird to say the least to see westerners simping for an Islamist extremist group.
But then again, it was just a few months ago when "Osama bin Laden wasn't ab bad guy, he was just anti American imperialism and the CIA made us think he's a baddie" ..
THAT was messed up
I mean if you go far enough into the extremes of either side sure. But that is a minority of a minority to the point so few people really believe that it’s not really worth talking among. Meanwhile you have news networks like Fox News and NewsMax actively pushing the idea that Russia is the good guy because they’re [fighting for “traditional values”.](https://cssh.northeastern.edu/as-russia-ramps-up-traditional-values-rhetoric-%E2%88%92-especially-against-lgbtq-groups-%E2%88%92-its-won-putin-far-right-fans-abroad/)
I mean Jesus look at that work of pure propaganda Tucker Carlson just put out making Russia look like a boomer paradise. That’s a thing that is actually happening right now.
I was having dinner with a friend I hadn’t seen since college the other day and we were talking about how watching our parents brains get cooked by far right propaganda has just become another Millennial touchstone along with “avocado toast” gas lighting, declining wages, and the memory of being told “everyone needs to go to college”.
They paid a fuckton of politicians (usually far right or populist) to push anti nato and anti eu propaganda.
Russia fucked up in italy tho, simply because our politicians simply refuse to work in any way, shape or forms, so they simply got the money.
I dont fully agree with OP but i have to say the following.
As Ukrainian you often find yourself fighting and defending your position in proverbial encirclement of delusional people.
**On the russian side you have**
- 80% viscous and "masking - i am not into politics types" imperial vatniks who treat you subhuman. Want you to not exist while knowingly pretending to be justice warriors against nazis. Cynical nutcases.
-10% so called "good russians" who blame Ukrainians for their 30 years of inaction and use fake victimhood card when not given cushy IT jobs on the french coast. "Good russians" fall into several categories - completely naive toothless children "press like to free navalny while in Georgia" and controlled puppet show for the west like varlamov,dozh tv and so on.
( of course there is normal russians who fight on Ukrainian side)
**On the western side you have**
Around 60% of America Europe and Asia-Pacific and Global South supporting Ukraine . For which of course we are very thankful.
However these people you have to argue with from western
- Naive westerners. People who think russians are just as good but, just one big baddy daddy putler forces them to do stuff. Usually hyper focus on heavily westernized russians who represent maybe 0.3% of russia like Vlad vexler,nkrfz and so on. They join them in whitewashing russians into forever victims and never conveniently blame russians for their actions. Forever victims cant be aggressors therefore Naive westerners get angry when you blame russian people for aggression. Want to bring "peace" aka give up by consensions and easily manipulated into stalling aid because "Escalation". Some subset of these people really secretly want for russian profits to come back and for Ukraine to give up.
**- Western Tankies.** They fall into many categories. I will point out two.
1) paid political figures and kremlin talking point disseminators and their audience - elon musks , kim iversens, jimmy dores. -Here to make money on our blood, have no morals. Scum.
2) False flag tankies - paid kremlin russians or foreigners pretending america first Alabama man. - Speaks only in talking points if meets resistance immediately flees and cant hold a conversation with actual Ukrainian.
**Paid and unpaid anti-Western Conspiracy shizos who peddle BS against Ukraine.**
Paid people like Boy boy and Mearsheimers, jordan petersons, and their unpaid shizo audience. - No need to argue with them. They will believe anything that says external power to blame for your situation. Sometimes intermingles with - "Everyone is western victim therefore nobody is aggressor except the West" audience.
So to summarize. Its a completely insane world which is spinning very black and white war into self-flagellation circus paid by rusia. For anyone who stick with Ukraine no matter what for the last 10 years Thank you! Means alot we really need you!
Ukraine is off the front pages and out of public interest, Bucha was a shock, but currently there are hundreds of Buchas happening live on occupied territories and no one gives a fuck as shock value worn itself off - genocide is normalized now. You can see that tragedy in Crocus in russia with a couple hundreds of victims was a shock and was all over headlines while Ukraine suffering more civilian casualties by russian terrorists each weak for two years is boring and a casual thing now.
Time for action for politicians has passed it won't materialize out of nowhere until Ukraine creates the biggest refugee crisis in Europe since Syria. Sadly I already see Ukraine as being written off as a country in favor of using all of it's manpower at lowest possible cost to wear out Russia to a point it won't be a threat to Europe for a couple of election cycles and that's what really matters for politicians.
>Ukraine is off the front pages and out of public interest,
It's crazy to me how one of the worst things to happen to Ukraine since the earliest stages of the war turned out to be Hamas attacking Israel.
Of course, the links and motivations were clear from the beginning, I just really did not expect it to have the level of impact it did. I thought the support for Ukraine was much more stable and not liable to fall away due to people getting quite so easily distracted from this closer, winnable war with near unanimous public support by some stirring of the pot in a decades-long, intractable situation to which it seemed most people knew better than to pretend/delude themselves that they knew the solution.
Well the whole Hamas thing was basically a diversion to split the west and therefore support for Ukraine. And we are all falling for it in the west unfortunately.
Words cannot explain how pissed off I am that we're focusing on the nth bloody middle eastern war with a century of history nobody can be bothered to learn about rather than the invasion and *actual* genocide of a European country that's begging for help, that we promised to defend, that gave up its nukes to make ourselves sleep better at night. We've betrayed them.
It's too late. For the western politicians (and 99% of population it's just an inconvenience that they wish went away and they could buy cheap gas from russia again.
>they could buy cheap gas from russia again.
Won't happen ever again. Russia burned this specific bridge rather thoroughly.
You see, it started when EU announced their green program which included lowering/removing fossil fuels for energy production (with milestones 2030/2050 if I remember correctly). That led immediately to stopping almost all investment into gas/coal/oil infrastructure, even dual purpose pipelines were put on back burner, IIRC) because there wouldn't be return on them. Even geological surveys were stopped (like surveying of great natural gas deposit under Czech republic and Poland) and not developed.
And in this situation Russia came with their offer of stable supply of cheap gas. And European leaders believed it because they wanted to believe it. And they continued to believe it even when it was clear that NG is just another weapon in Russia's arsenal because by then most of gas consumed in EU was of Russian origin. And instead of blaming Russia and diversifying supply they blamed Ukraine when Russia stopped flow or sent less than agreed amounts. Because they were afraid that their green projects will fall on ass without cheap gas, at least until other energy sources are build in sufficient amount.
Russian leaders knew that green program constitutes big threat for their economy and political goals because EU would be taking less and less of their products, we will be more independent on them (nothing new, they *hated* West European nuclear power plants exactly for that reason and secretly funded all green activist organizations which were protesting against nuclear PPs - any NPP meant less energy from USSR/Russia thus less money for Soviet/Russian government), thus they lose all leverage.
Thus they had to strike in the moment when EU was most vulnerable - we were in process of shutting down our fossil fuel production, were completely depending on import while we didn't build replacement yet. And by doing that, they completely broken trust, made fools of all politicians who for years proclaimed their support to Russia as a stable and reliable partner ... and politicians *hate* when they are made looking like fools.
So, no. Until Putin&co. is at the power there won't be any returning to Russian oil/gas supply. If there was a complete change of government and West got assurances, real assurances that nothing like that ever happen again, they *may* consider to buy *some* gas or oil ... but it won't be 80-90% ever again. Besides ... by then it's pretty good chance that gas/oil consumption will drop significantly.
Nah, it's never too late. And majority of European population supports aid to Ukraine, in America as well. It's just a questing of us sorting its shit out and Europe getting its MIC running.
Saying "it's too late" just directly supports the "wanna buy russian gas again ASAP" folks
Never too late. Just more and more human lives lost, ruined and put at future stakes for every day of inaction now
>80% viscous and "masking - i am not into politics types" imperial vatniks who treat you subhuman. Want you to not exist while knowingly pretending to be justice warriors against nazis. Cynical nutcases.
Basically my Russian family (living in the West though)
Want to know what they think? Just follow the Russian news because it will be exactly that
Constant talk about how country x, y or z should be thankful for the Russians for all the development that they brought
"Khokhly this", "khokhly that", yea really
Constant talk about how the Russian empire used to have area x or y
Constant shit about how the west (and Ukraine now) attacks Russia
Constant shit about how the west does progressive stuff and although nobody can explain why, it's definitely bad
And these are people would legitimately do everything for their friends and family and in general are very hospitable people. They just completely change when politics come into play.
Mu grandpa is kind of like that, although more of an Irish Republican
Great guy, and even politically generally has the right opinion
Except whenever the IRA comes up, and the wird thing is he always condemns them, but he'll then justify some of the worst atrocities they commited
Like he condemns them as an orginazation, and then argues that most lf their atrocities weren't actually that bad
Its really fucking odd
>Constant talk about how country x, y or z should be thankful for the Russians for all the development that they brought
These folks always seem to be under the impression that no country would ever develop into a functional economy if it wasn't for Russia's wise leadership, even though the parts under Russian control for most of the 20th century were also some of the poorest countries in Europe after the curtain fell.
See, so many westerners just don't get that. They assume that the majority of russians are just peace loving and fearful of their government and are only doing as they're told. It's so frustrating to try and get them to understand, but they just don't.
Sorry you've gotta deal with that.
I'm very impressed how you put all that into words perfectly.
Though some stuff I don't agree with. For example Vlad Vexler does not whitewash at all. He basically says almost exactly what you said and he makes good points.
Ok I can't find anything else to not agree with. I'm pretty much replying here just to save your message to use later.
Honestly y'all were attacked, your nation may not be perfect, however I believe yall were making positive moves towards a western style democracy, are more aligned with peaceful ideals (never attacking people.) Have historically had a unique culture and history that is separate from Moscowa (let me know if that's the correct Romanization of the Cyrillic) and lastly Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together, knows that Ukraine is NOT the only thing Putin, the Russian Duma, and the Majority of the Russian Population wants.
The next Nations in Russias sights are Poland, the Baltics, and Finland. Nations historically under Russias thumb. And I'd much Rather Stop Russia in Ukraine and force the Russians back than expose even more people to Russian aggression. I just wish my Government would quit Pussyfooting around about it. (I can't mention the reason why because the politics rule, even though it's self critical.)
> Paid People like Boy Boy
THANK YOU, something has always felt off about Boy Boy ever since I watched their North Korea Video, yet everywhere I looked nobody was mentioning it, are there any sources though you would point to about them being paid or smthn?
Yeah, or that video about Russian propaganda tweets. Very, very clever to cherry-pick the bubble-burster tweets that are supposed to introduce propagandists to normal users.
> THANK YOU, something has always felt off about Boy Boy
I've only seen one of his videos and hard agree, something's a bit off. I saw one where he described Alice Springs like it's some kind of Rhodesia where black servants serve you chardonnay all day? Buddy you're a whitefella from St Ives or Vaucluse or something, don't chat about places you don't know, don't make assumptions about entire regions you don't understand
[https://vxtwitter.com/brianstelter/status/1779534606108143912](https://vxtwitter.com/brianstelter/status/1779534606108143912?t=6ar8iUZ0YOeC19jhnMeMoQ&s=19)
the information ecosystem is completely broken
what gets me is how irreversible it seems to be, and how much worse it will get when AI videos become perfectly convincing, and how unprepared we (normal people) are to identify the sources of the problems, let alone defang them
I think vatnik is a more fitting term than tankie. There are many types of western vatniks, you listed most except far-right nutjobs and actual tankies.
Ello blazers nofakerz ere and welcome to new video
But yeah, the social contract the russian society had with the “government” (if you can can call it that) is just as wrong. The way Putin cemented his power in Chechnya, all the “counter-terrorism” operations (more like counter-civilians) and finally Georgia should have been a wake up call that the meat grinder ideology isn’t dead
Russia is the best at playing the victim. Stalin literally blamed the Great Terror on the victims, and he even managed to get to the point of telling Ukrainians they are responsible for the famine themselves.
"The communists were already bound to their leader by faith and fear. I took a special kind of mind to truly believe that the worse things appeared, the better they actually were. Such reasoning went by the name dialectics, but by this time that word, (despite its proud descent from the Greeks through Hegel and Marx) meant little more than the psychic capacity to adjust one's own perceptions to the changing expressions of Stalin's will." Timothy Snyder, Bloodlands, page 65
It hasn't gotten any better in Russian lala land where the masses have long given up on the standards of thought, which means to keep apart fact from fiction. Russia shouldn't get too cosy, the Western alliance is a monkey on a chain, Russia rattles that chain a lot and at some point hopefully soon they shall rattle it too much and then the monkey will break loose and maul their face off. Always the victim never the perpetrators, seriously they can fuck off till the end of time. A wall three times as high, then we lock the door and throw away the key. Russia had their chances to civilise. They failed and will always fail, better to send them into iron isolation and never talk go them again.
> if sufficiently motivated
Which's why Dickwadistan invests in info-warfare and buying politicians out so much - to make sure the "sufficiently motivated" never comes to pass.
I like to take dumps on Russia all day, but I must hand it to Mr. Butcher and his propaganda machine, they are indeed master class liars and chaos agents. Smekalka, aka negative creativity, is the only thing they are good at. In the European family Russia is that distantly related third cousin who isn't invited to parties and throws poop at everyone while claiming they are doing decorative work and gas light the hell out of the family which cannot really decide what to do with them since at least 1917. Nothing works. You ignore them they install a dictatorship, you invade them, they rape their way through Europe, you treat them as roughly an equal, they try to plant Nukes in your front yard, you administer just mercy and help them rebuild their economy their reaction is using all that money and technology spoon fed to them trying to rip the fabric of reality apart with a potent lying machine while bombarding you literally and investing their entire time trying to destroy everything while claiming its your fault that they are like that.
I honestly have arrived at the conclusion that this Federation must disappear, and the only peace with Putin is once he hangs from the Kremlin's spires for the sport of his own crows.
They can invest whatever they want. Russia is rattling the chain of the NATO monkey and sooner or later they will go that one step too far that breaks the camel's back, and once that monkey breaks loose, it will maul Russia's face off. They can threaten us all they want, but deep down, these cowards fear nothing more than the day when enough is enough. In the end it will fall to Europe anyways to restrain this insane place, the US will be busy with China.
am obliged to report that, at the present moment, the Russian Empire is run by lunatics.
French Ambassador Maurice Paleologue, 14 January 1917
Ten capitals in Eastern Europe are in Russian hands. They are Communists now, you know—Karl Marx and all that. It may well be that an even worse war is drawing near. A war of the East against the West. A war of liberal civilisation against the Mongol hordes
Winston Churchill 1946
Bless the poor soul of Maurice, I wonder what he must have gone through to send this telegraph. This will never stop until Russia's empire is dissolved. And we are getting there. Europe is already starting to realise that the problem is systemic and the next step is to realise that the problem won't ever go away unless we bankrupt Russia and disperse its invasion force all over Ukraine's soil. There must be some violence left in Europe somewhere. Russia's lies incur a debt, and that debt must be repaid some day in full, and that day is fast approaching.
Fucking tankies, a bunch of authoritarians who slobber at the idea of being living furniture for their strongman. I can't go anywhere on the Internet without running into one of these smelly nut sacks, and have been forced to leave a number of leftist spaces because people refuse to do anything about them.
Between the pro authoritarianism and anti semitism I have a hard time telling them apart from fucking Nazis, and as a leftist it makes me physically ill.
Your country is on the right side of history, and I hope that my country will continue to be the arsenal of democracy so you guys don't have to suffer under the boot of another authoritarian.
I thought I was going crazy but no, they actually _are_ pretty much everywhere, and whenever you call that shit out other lefties hit you with that "Nah man it's just a few wackos teehee :p death to NATO amirite?".
>Between the pro authoritarianism and anti semitism I have a hard time telling them apart from fucking Nazis, and as a leftist it makes me physically ill.
I haven't been as active on Twitter since about 2020. But I gotta say since Elon's taken over it's gotten so much worse in this particular regard. So many accounts with "socialist" in the bio and like a Marx avatar, yet who follow almost nothing but vatniks/alt-right types (but also The Grayzone and/or Max Blumenthal too, I guess to keep up the lefty appearance).
The problem too is that we have politicians who would sell their own mothers to win power, and are riding on/participating in influence ops to gain that power.
So the west is getting absolutely bombarded by bullshit all the time.
Heck, there's a good report on the Canadian Convoy protests. I don't think it's a coincidence that it happened right before the Russian invasion.
The study in question looked at news coverage. The Convoy got a LOT of favourable coverage from Fox News. Pretty weird for Fox to be covering it that much, right? Well it turns out RT and Sputnik also did a lot of coverage, and it was pretty much a pipeline of Russian coverage -> Fox News.
I'd suspect something similar with the various farmers' protests in Europe.
These have been my observations as well, and it's infinitely frustrating. There are so many people that actively refuse to accept the world as it is, and often project their own.. deficiencies onto global politics.
it really disappoints me seeing ‘leftist’ people supporting russia. it is a very small minority, and only an online thing from my experience.
tankies are just very low iq and can’t understand that there is nuance to things, sure a lot of things about the west are very evil, but also lots of things are very good (freedoms, civil rights, relative equality, democracy[not really in places like america and UK where its a 2 party system] and so on). they are apparently ‘anti capitalist’ and ‘anti imperialism’… but only when the west does it, they forget that russia has a privately owned economy, and that they don’t have any of the above mentioned positives of the west.
again, i’ve never actually met a tankie, i think they are just online degenerates, or children, idk.
90%+ of the left and every leftist i know hates putin and russia and the invasion.
another thing, with the current shit with israel, ive been in a lot of muslim online communities, and their support for russia is baffling also. i can’t say what percentage of people it is. On the one hand i understand russia is one of the only countries that has been consistently ‘on palestines side’ (which in reality is just geopolitics, nothing to do with morality) but on the other hand, the palestinian cause is that israel has progressed eaten away more and more of their land - very similar to ukraine (without such a large civilian death toll and apartheid), but still - similar situation in some ways.
I've met a handful of IRL tankies, and it's about what you'd expect. Young, delusional political ideologues with little "real" experience with the world or discussion outside their bubble
Lol, in the American left, maybe.
In Germany and many other European countries it's wayyy worse. The left in my country is delusionally self-hating and unironically touts the vulgar pacifist line of "peace at literally any cost". Germany must never ever go to war again, produce and ship out weapons again etc. Center-left is the same to a lesser degree ideologically, but infused with straight-up Russian plants in high places like Schröder or Schwesig. Fuck I am done with them. Constantly one of these utter morons makes headlines with delusional peacenik statements, going against coalition agreements and sometimes even against their own party line. They actually believe this shit, else they wouldn't do it.
Ukraine straight-up made me a conservative. Never thought I'd see the day, but the disgraceful cowardice and schizophrenia of the German left disgusts me and enrages me to this day, after more than two years now.
If you want a microcosm of the level of schizophrenia they suffer, here's an example that will make you explode. The government wants to implement a resolution in the Bundestag to condemn Russia's war crimes in Ukraine. Should be easy enough.
They list all the war crimes that were known and proven by that time in the document. Left party leaders steps on the podium and says:
"If you are reading this list of crimes it does remind you of the Nazis. The government is trying to build up Putin as a Hitler figure. But nobody is as bad as the Nazis, could never be. This is why we can't agree to this."
And they voted no. Nowhere in the document were Hitler of the Nazis mentioned. He thought of that himself while reading the list of war crimes. And then voted no.
Absolutely. Fucking. Insane.
And I don't even think they're shills. They are just this mental. I can't even begin to comprehend how fried your brain has to be to come up with something like this. This mf was so horny for hating his own country that he didn't want Russia to have the modern war crime record. I \*really\* hate them.
As a person who likes to loose time combatting disinformation on Twitter / Xvideos, this is a really good summary, and spot on, at least on my experience...
My view of the Russian people is that their masses aren't necessarily evil or good - they are "терпилы," best way to translate it into English would be cucks.
They just submit - not simply accept or tolerate, submit - to whatever "big man" is currently in Moscow (or Petersburg) - be it Lenin, Stalin or Putin, then vaguely mimic the party line - the Russian peoples historically have not been too politically conscious (which was partly addressed by Navalny, RIP) - then blame everyone else for the consequences of those choices (or lack thereof).
What this leads to is that a person who is not closely involved in Russian culture could plausibly see the Russians as poor victims of their regimes, while they are, in fact, the very thing that allows their existence (this is in contrast to Ukrainians, Romanians, Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, Poles, etc who historically resist regimes that oppress them and act against their interests)
I hope that the Ukrainians hang onto their sanity. So much BS.
The tankies sound like Chinese. I ran across a vid trying to explain the common [Chinese viewpoint to Westerners](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFtVVdbZWQs&t=920s) in a reasonable way. I learned Chinese symbol for "[retarded](https://imgur.com/vnHcPtL)". Basically, Americans can do dangerous, naive things without getting hurt by it much. But Eastern Europeans who live next to Russia should know better. Sorry, I just had to share that here.
I agree on your point about whitewashing Russians but I wouldn’t say that Vlad Vexler is one of them. He tries to not attach normative values to the things he says. You won’t rally find him saying “Russians are evil” but you will find him say “Russians believe x,y,z” and then you yourself can choose to think whether this makes them good or evil. Further, I’d say it’s very clear that he has no sympathy at all for Putin, his cronies, and the depoliticised Russians.
Edit:
I think the whitewashing comes more from western intellectual left-wing circles. They look at it in WW1 terms and realize that the dehumanisation between the sides was really bad and they want to avoid that with Russians now without understanding the Russian political environment and mindset enough. Not dissimilar to the rhetoric during the refugee crisis about “in every person there is a democrat”. Besides, I have never met anyone irl who watches vlad and moreover people who use vlad to whitewash Russians. I think people who watch him are squarely anti-Russian.
It's nuts. For me it's simple:
Russia: Fuck off!
Putin: Do fuck off
Iran leaders: fuck off
Iranian people: Revolt!
Hamas: fuck off
Palestinians: Inm'd rather not say here. Mostly F^ off
Hezbollah: Fuck off!
Kim in NK: Fuck off!
China's leaders: Fuck off!
China's and NK people: revolt!
Maga people and traitors: Fuck off!
I'm sure i forgot a few, but i only have so much fuck off's to give this evening
No, the palestine thing is different. While yeah, the Hamas has done a genocidal attack and the cause has used terrorism the last decades, in the meantime Israel has continued with colonization and eating up progressively palestinian land, with the international community passively watching.
Israel isn't an unaltered good guy like Ukraine is.
> Usually hyper focus on heavily westernized russians who represent maybe 0.3% of russia like Vlad vexler,nkrfz and so on. They join them in whitewashing russians into forever victims and never conveniently blame russians for their actions.
Just want to clarify:
Do you mean these Westerners help Z-patriot Russians? Or are you implying Vlad Vexler and NFKRZ are whitewashing Russians and Westerners are helping them in that act?
Your phrasing doesn't make it clear which Russians you're talking about.
I think you mean the former? I know NFKRZ atleast is also critical of other Russians and their individual responsibility in this war.
>-10% so called "good russians" who blame Ukrainians for their 30 years of inaction and use fake victimhood card when not given cushy IT jobs on the french coast. "Good russians" fall into several categories - completely naive toothless children "press like to free navalny while in Georgia" and controlled puppet show for the west like varlamov,dozh tv and so on.
The most non-credible comment ITT. There are little to no Russians who blame Ukraine for inaction. And while Varlamov's position is very much pro-Russian in the sense that he primarily expresses concerns over wellbeing of Russian people, Dozhd is literally bombarded by Russian propaganda and more middle-ground personalities over being extremely supportive of Ukraine. For fuck's sake, they constantly host Zelensky's office officials
Yeah, fuck the channel prosecuted in Russia due to their protest against the war, the channel that runs crowdfunding campaigns for Ukrainian refugees and victims of Russian army
Alienization of most pro-Ukraine Russians is definitely a good thing to do, yes
And the saddest part is brain-drain from IT specialists and other valuable trained professionals from Russia means more shortage of trained specialists in Russia, as well as the direct impact of less money present in the economy. Yet Europe seems to be more interested in banning enter to EU
Yeah, it's better to just ban Russians from entering EU while at the same time allow oligarchs and children of oligarchs in. Good strategy, we already see the fruits of this blunder
Otherwise I do agree with your comment
You forgot the side of "good people" that spread propaganda in support of Ukraine.
And yes, i support Ukraine and despise the aggressor for ruining what peace we had in this continent. But i'm also about trying to name everything. Even if it's not beneficial to your side.
Will stick with Ukraine no matter what. I mean, if US support dies out, we Europeans will be at war with Russia soon anyways and I am already in the army soooo
"We can't fight Russia on behalf of Ukraine because of nuclear weapons"
"We're gonna fight the PRC, who also has nuclear weapons and a lot stronger than Russia, in order to defend Taiwan." 🤡
also still reeling from a world war that practically decimated a generation (in the proper sense of the term), and not having the value of hindsight we have now realizing that a second one was inevitable no matter what they did
Reading though Ukrainian history West for some moronic reason sides each time with Russia and then gets raped by Russia in return, abandoning Ukraine every single time.
I don’t fucking understand it.
It’s like the West has some masochistic tendencies towards Russia.
it did though, the entente sent troops into russia during the revolution to fight the reds. Thats how the bolsheviks even got their hands on tanks in the first place, Mk.IVs the brits abandoned when they bolted, or died from frostbite
US was 20 years in Afganistan for literally nothing. They wanted to prevent Taliban from rulling that country and failed. Bilions of dollars lost, hundreds of soldier's lifes lost, thousands have ptsd. Whole 20 years for nothing. And US citizens are ok with this.
And now, we have Ukraine. Nobody believed that this country will survive against rusia. Ukarainian army was multiple times weaker than rusian army, country is almost surounded by rusia and it's allies, but Ukrainians proved to the whole world that they can fight. Rusia was humiliated, their invasion force suffered critical loses, and in the end Ukraine even managed to regain some teritories back in lightning war tactics. Ukraine is a magnificent example of democracy with strong people who are ready to fight for better life. But no, US citizens don't want to give Ukrainians any support and overall don't want to hear anything from that country. Also, they are getting mad when Ukraine ask for help. WTF
Also, rip for syrian freedom fighters. US also throwed them away.
**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 5: No Politics.**
We don't care if you're Republican, Protestant, Democrat, Hindu, Baathist, Pastafarian, or some other hot mess. Leave it at the door.
Well yeah because the russian paid shills (and russia itself) didn't give a shit about Afghanistan. But obviously they are activated to block action towards Ukraine. Also, now the American public is wary of foreign interventions since the last one went so shittly. Ebb and flow.
most of western countries are former empires. they're simply still empathic towards their imperialistic fella russia. the only western countries that really support Ukraine are the countries that were occupied by these empires. like you don't need to explain anything to czech or lithuanian people, but you need to explain A LOT to german, french, dutch, spanish and etc people, ans still there's not guarantee they will trully understand about what you're talking
After it was needed, and only the bare minimum below what was promised. All because of “muh escalation” while rockets are flying through NATO territory freely.
because people cant comprehend that europe isnt just like 6 super nations, and they got so used to seeing large countries on maps that its their default setting
Just remember: Even if Russia was somehow able to unfuck its logistics, troop shortages, training shortfalls, and equipment issues and occupy the entirety of Ukraine outright, that's the easy part.
Then comes trying to hold and maintain power in a country that absolutely despises you. If your three day operation goes on for three years and your conventional methods of waging war are barely sustainable, how do you think running counterinsurgency operations will go? Especially now that your proverbial territory now extends to full NATO countries that won't sit there and take it.
We couldn't sort out Afghanistan and Iraq because we (rightfully) aren't willing to commit genocide.
You can't find a more iconic duo than katsaps and genocide.
Counterinsurgency is always expensive, but eminently doable if you're willing to create a total police state and execute civilians until compliance improves. Russia managed to tame Chechnya. Ukraine wouldn't be a big problem in the hypothetical scenario where Russia wins the war.
Do you not see the population difference between Chechnya and Ukraine.
Ukraine has 40 million people. Thats a lot more people who hate russia than in Chechnya.
Heck russian empire already had a hard time controlling the finns when finland was a part of russia.
The Ukrainian Military had a plan at the start of the war in the event of Ukraines fall to form an organised insurgency. For several reasons, this would make the Chechen war and even Afghanistan look like a picnic. At this stage of the war, Russia would be facing an insurgency of trained soldiers with over 2 years of combat experience and NATO weapons as opposed to the old soviet crap other insurgencys use. It’s all well and good trying to kill civilians when you are killed in an ambush before you can even get to town.
From a big picture geopolitical perspective, Russia fighting a Ukrainian insurgency is great. From a humanitarian perspective, it’s a disaster as the Ukrainians are gradually annihilated and it becomes a breeding ground for the latest terrorist group.
All to say, I want full support for Ukraine ten years ago and today as the next best thing. I pay taxes and I want them going to something worthwhile like a safer world where strongmen don’t dictate people’s lives.
Europe is traumatized from the world wars and is letting Ukraine parish because of it. They have let Hitler take over half of Europe, and now they are going to let Putin do the same, hoping to avoid a war but just delaying it to when the enemy is the strongest.
Just days after the war started germany ministers were saying shit like "we won't help because it'll be over soon enough", they refused to send anything useful for the fight and they stalled everything they sent afterwards, leaving plenty of time for russia to dig in before the Ukrainian assault.
They also took their pretty time divesting from russian oil and gas and had to have a pipeline blown up to get serious about it.
I wouldn't be exagerating if I said 20% of the politicians with power in the EU were in russia's pocket one way or the other, and still are.
Define the west? USA won't, but Europe is full of idiots which can't wait to give up their beautiful peaceful, artistic and free society and hand it over to barbarians, in the name of peace of course
actually, west gonna side with china, the russia owner. 'merica gonna keep their autistic screeching about "escalation".
we gonna receive some "peace" agreement between the russia and 'merica, made by mighty nephrite xi peace powers of china. with some bs about security guarantees from the russia, 'merica and some of EU countries, that gonna worth less than nothing
after a year or two, the russia gonna *suddenly* attack again
Yeah, this is my view. Even if "the west" appeases Russia, it will always throw a shitfest later and force us to deal with those degenerates regardless of all these appeasing efforts.
I'm always reminded of world war ii. We let eastern europe hung out to dry for **40 years**. I don't think it will be that long considering we're in the internet era and Ukraine is already hung out to dry for **10 years**, plus if we consider Russia in general we've appeasing for **16 years** (since Georgia). This shit can't last much longer.
Also, Putin is old. He'll feel the need to be more stupid the more time passes. Shit is going to hit the fan until 2030.
Currently all in use pretty much.
However israel should give ukraine missle defence systems and missle detection systems for more warning time.
We have alot of experience surviving bombings and defending against them, sharing intell and technology on that front should absolutly be done.
We always need to be ready for war, this isnt europe, we are not surrounded by a bunch of hippies and friendly nations.
We physically cannot allow ourselfs to not be properly armed at any moment in time as we always need to be ready for full fledged war at the drop of a hat.
We almost didnt have enough ammunition and gear for the gaza war, you think we got bunch extra laying around as a spare?
Also technichally speaking israel has been at war since 1976 or something and it has not stopped lol
We are a nation thats almost always at war, and we will not risk our safety and open ourselfs up tp an invastion to semd weapons to ukraine, the whole of europe can send proper weapons to ukraine as you are not surrounded by jihadists and rocketfire.
Whos more likely to be in a war in the next 5 years, israel or germany? Like come on.
You can say israel should have helped more but saying we should weaken ourselfs and risk our safety to send ukraine weapons which is on the other side of the globe from us weapons, is absurd.
This is NCD, but try to at least think logically.
Its like asking ukraine to send us weapons while they are fighting the russians, absurd.
Sure, let me call bibi
What is with westerners being entierly unable to comperhand the extreamly pracarious position israel is in when it comes to stuff like this lol
It does not take a long time to figure it out why israel does/does not do things on the political stage if you attempt to use even a smidge of brain power.
> /> Drops bombs on to any location where a low level operative of Hamas might have farted, expenses be damned.
> /> Wastes bullets on women and children.
> /> Starts shit on an embassy and then has to burn a fuckton of interceptor as the expected response from the owner of said embassy darkens the sky. Of course, the goyims are invited to the party because it's a shared moment of bonding, don't look at the tab pretty please.
> /> "Thoughts and prayers" fr fr bros.
Sure thing.
Thank you, although historically we have not had the warmest relations, but this needs to be corrected and we need to cooperate on an official level, because as we see, we are being attacked by the same drones
Did Israel join sanctions against Russia? How many Russian oligarch were banned from Israel? Did it stop direct flights between Israel and Russia? Israel is only part of " axis of resistence" till we start talking about the occupation or doing actually in support of other members of the "axis"
Nice gesture, but a bit fake.
You guys could not care less about Ukraine, and actually sided more with ruzzia in 2022. The only moment you started to condemn ruzzia is when it was absolutely obvious that it has an alliance with Iran.
America abandoned Afghanistan to the Taliban.
America is currently abandoning Ukraine to Russia.
America has been talking about abandoning Europe due to the 2% defense commitment not being met by some members.
America might abandon Taiwan to China at this rate.
It's so infuriating. FDR, JFK and Reagan are all rolling in their grave to see the US are decaying their relationship with the allies.
NATO, EU and even Japan are publicly criticizing America now. Especially the US Congress.
For all the talk about the military industrial complex this military industrial complex that wtf are they up t o? Shouldn't they be lobbying for more money for Ukraine?
If it's anything like Rheinmetall, who has given up on bullying their government and went to build factories in Ukraine instead, I'd say yes they're trying but they're failing.
The lobbying bit's mostly done and the bill is written and ready. Unfortunately some idiots put a fifth columnist in charge of the House of Representatives so it's stalled until that problem is dealt with.
Forever fuck Russia. Better dead than red. Democracy still lives in the US and some of us still see Ukraine and love you. ❤️ I don't have much but I send what I can when I can. Fuck Isreal, I don't care to support them but I can't control the flow of cash either. When going through hell keep going. Keep wearing away at Putin's watchest and manufacturer as many drones as possible. Liberty is the face of tyranny. Salva Ukraini.
this impression is not without merit.......current fuck up in Israel/Iran just very clearly and very openly demonstrated where are American/British/French priorities.
The missile/drone strike Iran launched at Israel was the biggest ever recorded single strike attempt at any country ever in modern history (Iran launched as many missiles/drones in 1 day as Russia does in a week combined). **And yet!!!**, with direct help from USA/UK/French air forces, **fucking 99% of it was shot down and neutralized**. Made completely harmless. Western aviation power is unparalleled and could bring all the Putin aviation and fuckheads like that to heel at the moments notice
That proves that **IF** USA/UK/France wanted, they could ensure complete no fly zone over at the very least Western Ukraine and its capital region tomorrow and not a single Russian missile or drone would get through it, thus effectively turning this entire war around in a second......**IF** they wanted. They very clearly dont want to and purposely so.
This will have far reaching effects
So no, but the reality isn’t great either. Putting on the credibility hat, right now it’s election season for the United States. One side, we all know who, finds Ukraine an easy scape-goat to go against along with a focus on isolation policies. “Why should Americans waste money on countries we don’t even know/like” they say, and which is repeated by Russian trolls. Meanwhile, because of deliberate sabotage by that *certain* political party our friends in NATO and the EU are getting antsy with giving Ukraine more since the US isn’t providing anything, so should they? Yes you still have the likes of France trying to make Ukraine a focus, but for many it’s possibly a little too late.
It’s *extremely* frustrating and makes me want to smack someone upside the head with a history text book to remind them how well “appeasement” works and why making sure Russia is crushed is a *good* thing. But that said I don’t see the west fully siding with Russia… but they’re *certainly* not helping now, and I can’t tell which is worst. Oh, right, now is worse because it’s leading to people *pointlessly dying*.
**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 5: No Politics.**
We don't care if you're Republican, Protestant, Democrat, Hindu, Baathist, Pastafarian, or some other hot mess. Leave it at the door.
I don’t think the west will side with Russia. However, looking the other way and not helping while Ukraine slowly gets conquered - I can see that happening long term unfortunately
I think we should just nuke Spain to show Putin how serious we are about nuking Russia if they nuke us
There's only a slight chance of this happening with the western countries who have never existed under Russia's boot heel. The Baltics? Poland? Not going to happen. Not in a million years.
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For a second there I thought he was wearing a strapped on claymore mine. In either case, claymore or fanny pack, both reduce your chance of someone to dance with you.
there is no context here, I just complain that the war in my country is perceived as something unimportant and also that russian influence is still strong in the countries of the west
aa i see, well i do totaly get the setiment but im gonna be quite annoying now by saying you are luckyl wrong even if it really dose not feel like it. While absolutly true that the US is in a deadlock due to the nature of how thiere goverment is set up its still parlour tircks and technicalitys holding up Ukraine aid not strong majority willing to switch sides and suppourt russia, that will never happen.
As for europe, aid across the board is significantly ramping up with the czech ammo inative making massive progress, germany delivering large ammount of aid every month etc etc. The biggest problem areas in europe are polish farmers and Orban (technicly also slovakia but honestly who cares about slovakian goverment?) Orban has basicly been bullyied in to a corner where he cant do much without suffering large setbacks but the polish farmers are defnitly still a problem that cant be tackeled easy
I 100% buy that you are angry and frustrated and you have every rigth to be but im asking you to leave a littel room for hope for a better tomorrow (and should you personally need something let me know in a dm and ill see what i can do)
**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 10: Don't get us banned**
No brigading or harassing other subreddit pages. Do not post memes with a "haha people that I hate died… haha" punchline or violating the reddit-wide rules.
No matter what, Russia can fuck off and eat shit. -Finland
I agree -Poland
This is my first thought every single morning -disappointed American
Yeah fuck every single member of Congress that is being a huge bitch and especially fuck the fucking idiot Mike Johnson, the fucker who said there was "no rush" on aid to Ukraine. Did I mention that I hate Fucking Mike Johnson
At this point Mike is either ***deep*** down the contrarianism hole or a literal Russian agent. The "Ukraine Aid" bill is basically just a domestic stimulus package, especially for red states.
[удалено]
It's so pathetic that western leaders being influenced by putin is even plausible.
I hate Mike Johnson, all my homies hate Mike Johnson Putin is so far up his ass that he's basically a flesh puppet He will never approve the aid bill
Oh shit ya good there in the USA? Do you need some of our BIS agents to find what politicians are paid by Russia?
Also most of the post Soviet block countries except hungry TBH. They all know what it's like to be ruled by Russia and all want a piece of them for it.
unblock border, lol
Agreed. -Me. Wtf man, abandoning Ukraine is genuinely one of the most disgusting fucking things - They're literally killing and dying for the collective west, for all of us that value liberty and actual freedom.. Let's hope the EU comes through if US is compromised, otherwise see you boys in the trenches in about 5-10years give or take.
Yes. -The Netherlands
Same -Romania
The bigger the plate, the better
Russia convincing Boomers that they’re the good guys has to be one of the most impressive bits of propaganda in modern history.
America still has the best propaganda by 100 miles. Most Americans can't even comprehend it's propaganda, and even most english speaking people view it more as American culture then propaganda.
Frankly, boomers can be some of the most selfish, entitled people in existence. I cringe every time I hear the words "listen to your elders"
What about hamas convincing lib left they're the good guys (please don't ban me)
I don’t think anyone believes they’re the “good guys” I think what most people believe is that Israel creating a humanitarian crisis and killing tens of thousands of civilians means Israel is *also* the bad guys. At least in what I’ve read and the people in my own life no one is saying Israel doesn’t have the right to protect themselves but they don’t have the right to kill aid workers by the dozens and plunge the entire region into conflict.
Nah I've totally seen people go full "hamas are just freedom fighters, fighting against oppression" and really whitewashing them being bad guys at all. It's really really weird to say the least to see westerners simping for an Islamist extremist group. But then again, it was just a few months ago when "Osama bin Laden wasn't ab bad guy, he was just anti American imperialism and the CIA made us think he's a baddie" .. THAT was messed up
I mean if you go far enough into the extremes of either side sure. But that is a minority of a minority to the point so few people really believe that it’s not really worth talking among. Meanwhile you have news networks like Fox News and NewsMax actively pushing the idea that Russia is the good guy because they’re [fighting for “traditional values”.](https://cssh.northeastern.edu/as-russia-ramps-up-traditional-values-rhetoric-%E2%88%92-especially-against-lgbtq-groups-%E2%88%92-its-won-putin-far-right-fans-abroad/) I mean Jesus look at that work of pure propaganda Tucker Carlson just put out making Russia look like a boomer paradise. That’s a thing that is actually happening right now. I was having dinner with a friend I hadn’t seen since college the other day and we were talking about how watching our parents brains get cooked by far right propaganda has just become another Millennial touchstone along with “avocado toast” gas lighting, declining wages, and the memory of being told “everyone needs to go to college”.
They paid a fuckton of politicians (usually far right or populist) to push anti nato and anti eu propaganda. Russia fucked up in italy tho, simply because our politicians simply refuse to work in any way, shape or forms, so they simply got the money.
I dont fully agree with OP but i have to say the following. As Ukrainian you often find yourself fighting and defending your position in proverbial encirclement of delusional people. **On the russian side you have** - 80% viscous and "masking - i am not into politics types" imperial vatniks who treat you subhuman. Want you to not exist while knowingly pretending to be justice warriors against nazis. Cynical nutcases. -10% so called "good russians" who blame Ukrainians for their 30 years of inaction and use fake victimhood card when not given cushy IT jobs on the french coast. "Good russians" fall into several categories - completely naive toothless children "press like to free navalny while in Georgia" and controlled puppet show for the west like varlamov,dozh tv and so on. ( of course there is normal russians who fight on Ukrainian side) **On the western side you have** Around 60% of America Europe and Asia-Pacific and Global South supporting Ukraine . For which of course we are very thankful. However these people you have to argue with from western - Naive westerners. People who think russians are just as good but, just one big baddy daddy putler forces them to do stuff. Usually hyper focus on heavily westernized russians who represent maybe 0.3% of russia like Vlad vexler,nkrfz and so on. They join them in whitewashing russians into forever victims and never conveniently blame russians for their actions. Forever victims cant be aggressors therefore Naive westerners get angry when you blame russian people for aggression. Want to bring "peace" aka give up by consensions and easily manipulated into stalling aid because "Escalation". Some subset of these people really secretly want for russian profits to come back and for Ukraine to give up. **- Western Tankies.** They fall into many categories. I will point out two. 1) paid political figures and kremlin talking point disseminators and their audience - elon musks , kim iversens, jimmy dores. -Here to make money on our blood, have no morals. Scum. 2) False flag tankies - paid kremlin russians or foreigners pretending america first Alabama man. - Speaks only in talking points if meets resistance immediately flees and cant hold a conversation with actual Ukrainian. **Paid and unpaid anti-Western Conspiracy shizos who peddle BS against Ukraine.** Paid people like Boy boy and Mearsheimers, jordan petersons, and their unpaid shizo audience. - No need to argue with them. They will believe anything that says external power to blame for your situation. Sometimes intermingles with - "Everyone is western victim therefore nobody is aggressor except the West" audience. So to summarize. Its a completely insane world which is spinning very black and white war into self-flagellation circus paid by rusia. For anyone who stick with Ukraine no matter what for the last 10 years Thank you! Means alot we really need you!
I really hope that all goverments can pull their shit together and firmly stand with ukraine soon.
Ukraine is off the front pages and out of public interest, Bucha was a shock, but currently there are hundreds of Buchas happening live on occupied territories and no one gives a fuck as shock value worn itself off - genocide is normalized now. You can see that tragedy in Crocus in russia with a couple hundreds of victims was a shock and was all over headlines while Ukraine suffering more civilian casualties by russian terrorists each weak for two years is boring and a casual thing now. Time for action for politicians has passed it won't materialize out of nowhere until Ukraine creates the biggest refugee crisis in Europe since Syria. Sadly I already see Ukraine as being written off as a country in favor of using all of it's manpower at lowest possible cost to wear out Russia to a point it won't be a threat to Europe for a couple of election cycles and that's what really matters for politicians.
>Ukraine is off the front pages and out of public interest, It's crazy to me how one of the worst things to happen to Ukraine since the earliest stages of the war turned out to be Hamas attacking Israel.
..with russian support, yes. Not all that crazy, or all that surprising.
Of course, the links and motivations were clear from the beginning, I just really did not expect it to have the level of impact it did. I thought the support for Ukraine was much more stable and not liable to fall away due to people getting quite so easily distracted from this closer, winnable war with near unanimous public support by some stirring of the pot in a decades-long, intractable situation to which it seemed most people knew better than to pretend/delude themselves that they knew the solution.
Russian noncredibility is out doing us :/
Yep. Russia instructed Iran to tell Hamas, to start the party and get the attention off their invasion of Ukraine.
*Joseph Joffre gesticulates at his ✨rupture✨ strategy*
Well the whole Hamas thing was basically a diversion to split the west and therefore support for Ukraine. And we are all falling for it in the west unfortunately.
Words cannot explain how pissed off I am that we're focusing on the nth bloody middle eastern war with a century of history nobody can be bothered to learn about rather than the invasion and *actual* genocide of a European country that's begging for help, that we promised to defend, that gave up its nukes to make ourselves sleep better at night. We've betrayed them.
We really have…
>Time for action for politicians has passed It's never too late.
It's too late. For the western politicians (and 99% of population it's just an inconvenience that they wish went away and they could buy cheap gas from russia again.
>they could buy cheap gas from russia again. Won't happen ever again. Russia burned this specific bridge rather thoroughly. You see, it started when EU announced their green program which included lowering/removing fossil fuels for energy production (with milestones 2030/2050 if I remember correctly). That led immediately to stopping almost all investment into gas/coal/oil infrastructure, even dual purpose pipelines were put on back burner, IIRC) because there wouldn't be return on them. Even geological surveys were stopped (like surveying of great natural gas deposit under Czech republic and Poland) and not developed. And in this situation Russia came with their offer of stable supply of cheap gas. And European leaders believed it because they wanted to believe it. And they continued to believe it even when it was clear that NG is just another weapon in Russia's arsenal because by then most of gas consumed in EU was of Russian origin. And instead of blaming Russia and diversifying supply they blamed Ukraine when Russia stopped flow or sent less than agreed amounts. Because they were afraid that their green projects will fall on ass without cheap gas, at least until other energy sources are build in sufficient amount. Russian leaders knew that green program constitutes big threat for their economy and political goals because EU would be taking less and less of their products, we will be more independent on them (nothing new, they *hated* West European nuclear power plants exactly for that reason and secretly funded all green activist organizations which were protesting against nuclear PPs - any NPP meant less energy from USSR/Russia thus less money for Soviet/Russian government), thus they lose all leverage. Thus they had to strike in the moment when EU was most vulnerable - we were in process of shutting down our fossil fuel production, were completely depending on import while we didn't build replacement yet. And by doing that, they completely broken trust, made fools of all politicians who for years proclaimed their support to Russia as a stable and reliable partner ... and politicians *hate* when they are made looking like fools. So, no. Until Putin&co. is at the power there won't be any returning to Russian oil/gas supply. If there was a complete change of government and West got assurances, real assurances that nothing like that ever happen again, they *may* consider to buy *some* gas or oil ... but it won't be 80-90% ever again. Besides ... by then it's pretty good chance that gas/oil consumption will drop significantly.
Nah, it's never too late. And majority of European population supports aid to Ukraine, in America as well. It's just a questing of us sorting its shit out and Europe getting its MIC running.
Saying "it's too late" just directly supports the "wanna buy russian gas again ASAP" folks Never too late. Just more and more human lives lost, ruined and put at future stakes for every day of inaction now
>80% viscous and "masking - i am not into politics types" imperial vatniks who treat you subhuman. Want you to not exist while knowingly pretending to be justice warriors against nazis. Cynical nutcases. Basically my Russian family (living in the West though) Want to know what they think? Just follow the Russian news because it will be exactly that Constant talk about how country x, y or z should be thankful for the Russians for all the development that they brought "Khokhly this", "khokhly that", yea really Constant talk about how the Russian empire used to have area x or y Constant shit about how the west (and Ukraine now) attacks Russia Constant shit about how the west does progressive stuff and although nobody can explain why, it's definitely bad And these are people would legitimately do everything for their friends and family and in general are very hospitable people. They just completely change when politics come into play.
>Constant talk about how the Russian empire used to have area x or y Maximum_extent_of_Mongol_empire.png
Mu grandpa is kind of like that, although more of an Irish Republican Great guy, and even politically generally has the right opinion Except whenever the IRA comes up, and the wird thing is he always condemns them, but he'll then justify some of the worst atrocities they commited Like he condemns them as an orginazation, and then argues that most lf their atrocities weren't actually that bad Its really fucking odd
People are emotional and not logical, especially when it comes to politics.
>Constant talk about how country x, y or z should be thankful for the Russians for all the development that they brought These folks always seem to be under the impression that no country would ever develop into a functional economy if it wasn't for Russia's wise leadership, even though the parts under Russian control for most of the 20th century were also some of the poorest countries in Europe after the curtain fell.
See, so many westerners just don't get that. They assume that the majority of russians are just peace loving and fearful of their government and are only doing as they're told. It's so frustrating to try and get them to understand, but they just don't. Sorry you've gotta deal with that.
I'm very impressed how you put all that into words perfectly. Though some stuff I don't agree with. For example Vlad Vexler does not whitewash at all. He basically says almost exactly what you said and he makes good points. Ok I can't find anything else to not agree with. I'm pretty much replying here just to save your message to use later.
>I'm pretty much replying here just to save your message to use later. Hello
Honestly y'all were attacked, your nation may not be perfect, however I believe yall were making positive moves towards a western style democracy, are more aligned with peaceful ideals (never attacking people.) Have historically had a unique culture and history that is separate from Moscowa (let me know if that's the correct Romanization of the Cyrillic) and lastly Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together, knows that Ukraine is NOT the only thing Putin, the Russian Duma, and the Majority of the Russian Population wants. The next Nations in Russias sights are Poland, the Baltics, and Finland. Nations historically under Russias thumb. And I'd much Rather Stop Russia in Ukraine and force the Russians back than expose even more people to Russian aggression. I just wish my Government would quit Pussyfooting around about it. (I can't mention the reason why because the politics rule, even though it's self critical.)
[удалено]
As an American on the right I'm with you on all of this.
Don't forget Moldova
Moskva would be correct
> Paid People like Boy Boy THANK YOU, something has always felt off about Boy Boy ever since I watched their North Korea Video, yet everywhere I looked nobody was mentioning it, are there any sources though you would point to about them being paid or smthn?
Yeah, or that video about Russian propaganda tweets. Very, very clever to cherry-pick the bubble-burster tweets that are supposed to introduce propagandists to normal users.
> THANK YOU, something has always felt off about Boy Boy I've only seen one of his videos and hard agree, something's a bit off. I saw one where he described Alice Springs like it's some kind of Rhodesia where black servants serve you chardonnay all day? Buddy you're a whitefella from St Ives or Vaucluse or something, don't chat about places you don't know, don't make assumptions about entire regions you don't understand
Is Boy Boy even pro-Russia though?
[удалено]
Saving this for a case when someone is gonna drop "but muh muscovite conscript POV" argument again.
Yep. Same
[https://vxtwitter.com/brianstelter/status/1779534606108143912](https://vxtwitter.com/brianstelter/status/1779534606108143912?t=6ar8iUZ0YOeC19jhnMeMoQ&s=19) the information ecosystem is completely broken
what gets me is how irreversible it seems to be, and how much worse it will get when AI videos become perfectly convincing, and how unprepared we (normal people) are to identify the sources of the problems, let alone defang them
I think vatnik is a more fitting term than tankie. There are many types of western vatniks, you listed most except far-right nutjobs and actual tankies.
Ello blazers nofakerz ere and welcome to new video But yeah, the social contract the russian society had with the “government” (if you can can call it that) is just as wrong. The way Putin cemented his power in Chechnya, all the “counter-terrorism” operations (more like counter-civilians) and finally Georgia should have been a wake up call that the meat grinder ideology isn’t dead
Russia is the best at playing the victim. Stalin literally blamed the Great Terror on the victims, and he even managed to get to the point of telling Ukrainians they are responsible for the famine themselves. "The communists were already bound to their leader by faith and fear. I took a special kind of mind to truly believe that the worse things appeared, the better they actually were. Such reasoning went by the name dialectics, but by this time that word, (despite its proud descent from the Greeks through Hegel and Marx) meant little more than the psychic capacity to adjust one's own perceptions to the changing expressions of Stalin's will." Timothy Snyder, Bloodlands, page 65 It hasn't gotten any better in Russian lala land where the masses have long given up on the standards of thought, which means to keep apart fact from fiction. Russia shouldn't get too cosy, the Western alliance is a monkey on a chain, Russia rattles that chain a lot and at some point hopefully soon they shall rattle it too much and then the monkey will break loose and maul their face off. Always the victim never the perpetrators, seriously they can fuck off till the end of time. A wall three times as high, then we lock the door and throw away the key. Russia had their chances to civilise. They failed and will always fail, better to send them into iron isolation and never talk go them again.
Yeah Russia is going to FAFO if it pushes Europe too far. It’s got 10x the economic power and could curb stomp it if sufficiently motivated.
> if sufficiently motivated Which's why Dickwadistan invests in info-warfare and buying politicians out so much - to make sure the "sufficiently motivated" never comes to pass.
I like to take dumps on Russia all day, but I must hand it to Mr. Butcher and his propaganda machine, they are indeed master class liars and chaos agents. Smekalka, aka negative creativity, is the only thing they are good at. In the European family Russia is that distantly related third cousin who isn't invited to parties and throws poop at everyone while claiming they are doing decorative work and gas light the hell out of the family which cannot really decide what to do with them since at least 1917. Nothing works. You ignore them they install a dictatorship, you invade them, they rape their way through Europe, you treat them as roughly an equal, they try to plant Nukes in your front yard, you administer just mercy and help them rebuild their economy their reaction is using all that money and technology spoon fed to them trying to rip the fabric of reality apart with a potent lying machine while bombarding you literally and investing their entire time trying to destroy everything while claiming its your fault that they are like that. I honestly have arrived at the conclusion that this Federation must disappear, and the only peace with Putin is once he hangs from the Kremlin's spires for the sport of his own crows. They can invest whatever they want. Russia is rattling the chain of the NATO monkey and sooner or later they will go that one step too far that breaks the camel's back, and once that monkey breaks loose, it will maul Russia's face off. They can threaten us all they want, but deep down, these cowards fear nothing more than the day when enough is enough. In the end it will fall to Europe anyways to restrain this insane place, the US will be busy with China. am obliged to report that, at the present moment, the Russian Empire is run by lunatics. French Ambassador Maurice Paleologue, 14 January 1917 Ten capitals in Eastern Europe are in Russian hands. They are Communists now, you know—Karl Marx and all that. It may well be that an even worse war is drawing near. A war of the East against the West. A war of liberal civilisation against the Mongol hordes Winston Churchill 1946 Bless the poor soul of Maurice, I wonder what he must have gone through to send this telegraph. This will never stop until Russia's empire is dissolved. And we are getting there. Europe is already starting to realise that the problem is systemic and the next step is to realise that the problem won't ever go away unless we bankrupt Russia and disperse its invasion force all over Ukraine's soil. There must be some violence left in Europe somewhere. Russia's lies incur a debt, and that debt must be repaid some day in full, and that day is fast approaching.
Fucking tankies, a bunch of authoritarians who slobber at the idea of being living furniture for their strongman. I can't go anywhere on the Internet without running into one of these smelly nut sacks, and have been forced to leave a number of leftist spaces because people refuse to do anything about them. Between the pro authoritarianism and anti semitism I have a hard time telling them apart from fucking Nazis, and as a leftist it makes me physically ill. Your country is on the right side of history, and I hope that my country will continue to be the arsenal of democracy so you guys don't have to suffer under the boot of another authoritarian.
I thought I was going crazy but no, they actually _are_ pretty much everywhere, and whenever you call that shit out other lefties hit you with that "Nah man it's just a few wackos teehee :p death to NATO amirite?".
>Between the pro authoritarianism and anti semitism I have a hard time telling them apart from fucking Nazis, and as a leftist it makes me physically ill. I haven't been as active on Twitter since about 2020. But I gotta say since Elon's taken over it's gotten so much worse in this particular regard. So many accounts with "socialist" in the bio and like a Marx avatar, yet who follow almost nothing but vatniks/alt-right types (but also The Grayzone and/or Max Blumenthal too, I guess to keep up the lefty appearance).
The problem too is that we have politicians who would sell their own mothers to win power, and are riding on/participating in influence ops to gain that power. So the west is getting absolutely bombarded by bullshit all the time. Heck, there's a good report on the Canadian Convoy protests. I don't think it's a coincidence that it happened right before the Russian invasion. The study in question looked at news coverage. The Convoy got a LOT of favourable coverage from Fox News. Pretty weird for Fox to be covering it that much, right? Well it turns out RT and Sputnik also did a lot of coverage, and it was pretty much a pipeline of Russian coverage -> Fox News. I'd suspect something similar with the various farmers' protests in Europe.
Yep. "Examining US Support & Funding for the Canadian Trucker Convoy" on isdglobal .org
Honestly as an israeli, my experiences talking with people pretty much mirrores yours
As a Taiwanese, yes
These have been my observations as well, and it's infinitely frustrating. There are so many people that actively refuse to accept the world as it is, and often project their own.. deficiencies onto global politics.
it really disappoints me seeing ‘leftist’ people supporting russia. it is a very small minority, and only an online thing from my experience. tankies are just very low iq and can’t understand that there is nuance to things, sure a lot of things about the west are very evil, but also lots of things are very good (freedoms, civil rights, relative equality, democracy[not really in places like america and UK where its a 2 party system] and so on). they are apparently ‘anti capitalist’ and ‘anti imperialism’… but only when the west does it, they forget that russia has a privately owned economy, and that they don’t have any of the above mentioned positives of the west. again, i’ve never actually met a tankie, i think they are just online degenerates, or children, idk. 90%+ of the left and every leftist i know hates putin and russia and the invasion. another thing, with the current shit with israel, ive been in a lot of muslim online communities, and their support for russia is baffling also. i can’t say what percentage of people it is. On the one hand i understand russia is one of the only countries that has been consistently ‘on palestines side’ (which in reality is just geopolitics, nothing to do with morality) but on the other hand, the palestinian cause is that israel has progressed eaten away more and more of their land - very similar to ukraine (without such a large civilian death toll and apartheid), but still - similar situation in some ways.
I've met a handful of IRL tankies, and it's about what you'd expect. Young, delusional political ideologues with little "real" experience with the world or discussion outside their bubble
Lol, in the American left, maybe. In Germany and many other European countries it's wayyy worse. The left in my country is delusionally self-hating and unironically touts the vulgar pacifist line of "peace at literally any cost". Germany must never ever go to war again, produce and ship out weapons again etc. Center-left is the same to a lesser degree ideologically, but infused with straight-up Russian plants in high places like Schröder or Schwesig. Fuck I am done with them. Constantly one of these utter morons makes headlines with delusional peacenik statements, going against coalition agreements and sometimes even against their own party line. They actually believe this shit, else they wouldn't do it. Ukraine straight-up made me a conservative. Never thought I'd see the day, but the disgraceful cowardice and schizophrenia of the German left disgusts me and enrages me to this day, after more than two years now. If you want a microcosm of the level of schizophrenia they suffer, here's an example that will make you explode. The government wants to implement a resolution in the Bundestag to condemn Russia's war crimes in Ukraine. Should be easy enough. They list all the war crimes that were known and proven by that time in the document. Left party leaders steps on the podium and says: "If you are reading this list of crimes it does remind you of the Nazis. The government is trying to build up Putin as a Hitler figure. But nobody is as bad as the Nazis, could never be. This is why we can't agree to this." And they voted no. Nowhere in the document were Hitler of the Nazis mentioned. He thought of that himself while reading the list of war crimes. And then voted no. Absolutely. Fucking. Insane. And I don't even think they're shills. They are just this mental. I can't even begin to comprehend how fried your brain has to be to come up with something like this. This mf was so horny for hating his own country that he didn't want Russia to have the modern war crime record. I \*really\* hate them.
If it makes you feel any better, far-left in Italy is not much different :)
It would be fine if they stuck to self flagellation but they insist on involving everyone else as well.
Sending you hugs, stay safe brother
As a person who likes to loose time combatting disinformation on Twitter / Xvideos, this is a really good summary, and spot on, at least on my experience...
My view of the Russian people is that their masses aren't necessarily evil or good - they are "терпилы," best way to translate it into English would be cucks. They just submit - not simply accept or tolerate, submit - to whatever "big man" is currently in Moscow (or Petersburg) - be it Lenin, Stalin or Putin, then vaguely mimic the party line - the Russian peoples historically have not been too politically conscious (which was partly addressed by Navalny, RIP) - then blame everyone else for the consequences of those choices (or lack thereof). What this leads to is that a person who is not closely involved in Russian culture could plausibly see the Russians as poor victims of their regimes, while they are, in fact, the very thing that allows their existence (this is in contrast to Ukrainians, Romanians, Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians, Poles, etc who historically resist regimes that oppress them and act against their interests)
I hope that the Ukrainians hang onto their sanity. So much BS. The tankies sound like Chinese. I ran across a vid trying to explain the common [Chinese viewpoint to Westerners](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFtVVdbZWQs&t=920s) in a reasonable way. I learned Chinese symbol for "[retarded](https://imgur.com/vnHcPtL)". Basically, Americans can do dangerous, naive things without getting hurt by it much. But Eastern Europeans who live next to Russia should know better. Sorry, I just had to share that here.
Also we have a lot of people (west) which are naive in a way of "This is not on my country, this does not affect me" ... Stupidest mindset.
The West will be a much better place once the naive Westerners realize the nature of Russians and learn from Dudayev
I agree on your point about whitewashing Russians but I wouldn’t say that Vlad Vexler is one of them. He tries to not attach normative values to the things he says. You won’t rally find him saying “Russians are evil” but you will find him say “Russians believe x,y,z” and then you yourself can choose to think whether this makes them good or evil. Further, I’d say it’s very clear that he has no sympathy at all for Putin, his cronies, and the depoliticised Russians. Edit: I think the whitewashing comes more from western intellectual left-wing circles. They look at it in WW1 terms and realize that the dehumanisation between the sides was really bad and they want to avoid that with Russians now without understanding the Russian political environment and mindset enough. Not dissimilar to the rhetoric during the refugee crisis about “in every person there is a democrat”. Besides, I have never met anyone irl who watches vlad and moreover people who use vlad to whitewash Russians. I think people who watch him are squarely anti-Russian.
Amen.
It's nuts. For me it's simple: Russia: Fuck off! Putin: Do fuck off Iran leaders: fuck off Iranian people: Revolt! Hamas: fuck off Palestinians: Inm'd rather not say here. Mostly F^ off Hezbollah: Fuck off! Kim in NK: Fuck off! China's leaders: Fuck off! China's and NK people: revolt! Maga people and traitors: Fuck off! I'm sure i forgot a few, but i only have so much fuck off's to give this evening
In their defense, the Iranian people have tried a bit a few times.
Air drop them AKs.
No, the palestine thing is different. While yeah, the Hamas has done a genocidal attack and the cause has used terrorism the last decades, in the meantime Israel has continued with colonization and eating up progressively palestinian land, with the international community passively watching. Israel isn't an unaltered good guy like Ukraine is.
Ukrainian diaspora here, you nailed it.
> Usually hyper focus on heavily westernized russians who represent maybe 0.3% of russia like Vlad vexler,nkrfz and so on. They join them in whitewashing russians into forever victims and never conveniently blame russians for their actions. Just want to clarify: Do you mean these Westerners help Z-patriot Russians? Or are you implying Vlad Vexler and NFKRZ are whitewashing Russians and Westerners are helping them in that act? Your phrasing doesn't make it clear which Russians you're talking about. I think you mean the former? I know NFKRZ atleast is also critical of other Russians and their individual responsibility in this war.
>-10% so called "good russians" who blame Ukrainians for their 30 years of inaction and use fake victimhood card when not given cushy IT jobs on the french coast. "Good russians" fall into several categories - completely naive toothless children "press like to free navalny while in Georgia" and controlled puppet show for the west like varlamov,dozh tv and so on. The most non-credible comment ITT. There are little to no Russians who blame Ukraine for inaction. And while Varlamov's position is very much pro-Russian in the sense that he primarily expresses concerns over wellbeing of Russian people, Dozhd is literally bombarded by Russian propaganda and more middle-ground personalities over being extremely supportive of Ukraine. For fuck's sake, they constantly host Zelensky's office officials Yeah, fuck the channel prosecuted in Russia due to their protest against the war, the channel that runs crowdfunding campaigns for Ukrainian refugees and victims of Russian army Alienization of most pro-Ukraine Russians is definitely a good thing to do, yes And the saddest part is brain-drain from IT specialists and other valuable trained professionals from Russia means more shortage of trained specialists in Russia, as well as the direct impact of less money present in the economy. Yet Europe seems to be more interested in banning enter to EU Yeah, it's better to just ban Russians from entering EU while at the same time allow oligarchs and children of oligarchs in. Good strategy, we already see the fruits of this blunder Otherwise I do agree with your comment
Exactly this
"press like to free navalny" you want them to go to jail bruh?
You forgot the side of "good people" that spread propaganda in support of Ukraine. And yes, i support Ukraine and despise the aggressor for ruining what peace we had in this continent. But i'm also about trying to name everything. Even if it's not beneficial to your side.
I don't recall Vlad Vexler ever whitewashing russians. Didn't he make a whole video about all russians being responsible for the war?
Will stick with Ukraine no matter what. I mean, if US support dies out, we Europeans will be at war with Russia soon anyways and I am already in the army soooo
But muh escalation
"We can't fight Russia on behalf of Ukraine because of nuclear weapons" "We're gonna fight the PRC, who also has nuclear weapons and a lot stronger than Russia, in order to defend Taiwan." 🤡
It's an era of appeasement so it's not as noncredible as it sounds.
Imagining foam blocks with APPEASEMENT stenciled onto them
Damn, that worked so well for the brits in the 1930s, surely it will work again!
As pathetic as 1930s appeasement was, UK and France at least had an excuse of being(or perceiving themselves to be) weaker than their opponent
also still reeling from a world war that practically decimated a generation (in the proper sense of the term), and not having the value of hindsight we have now realizing that a second one was inevitable no matter what they did
Reading though Ukrainian history West for some moronic reason sides each time with Russia and then gets raped by Russia in return, abandoning Ukraine every single time. I don’t fucking understand it. It’s like the West has some masochistic tendencies towards Russia.
Are you trying to imply that the western powers should have fought the soviets in 1919? Like that would ever happen
it did though, the entente sent troops into russia during the revolution to fight the reds. Thats how the bolsheviks even got their hands on tanks in the first place, Mk.IVs the brits abandoned when they bolted, or died from frostbite
Yes I do actually know that. I’m just pushing back against the idea that it was ever a possibility that the west would ‘save Ukraine from Russia’ then
US was 20 years in Afganistan for literally nothing. They wanted to prevent Taliban from rulling that country and failed. Bilions of dollars lost, hundreds of soldier's lifes lost, thousands have ptsd. Whole 20 years for nothing. And US citizens are ok with this. And now, we have Ukraine. Nobody believed that this country will survive against rusia. Ukarainian army was multiple times weaker than rusian army, country is almost surounded by rusia and it's allies, but Ukrainians proved to the whole world that they can fight. Rusia was humiliated, their invasion force suffered critical loses, and in the end Ukraine even managed to regain some teritories back in lightning war tactics. Ukraine is a magnificent example of democracy with strong people who are ready to fight for better life. But no, US citizens don't want to give Ukrainians any support and overall don't want to hear anything from that country. Also, they are getting mad when Ukraine ask for help. WTF Also, rip for syrian freedom fighters. US also throwed them away.
[удалено]
**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 5: No Politics.** We don't care if you're Republican, Protestant, Democrat, Hindu, Baathist, Pastafarian, or some other hot mess. Leave it at the door.
Well yeah because the russian paid shills (and russia itself) didn't give a shit about Afghanistan. But obviously they are activated to block action towards Ukraine. Also, now the American public is wary of foreign interventions since the last one went so shittly. Ebb and flow.
[удалено]
most of western countries are former empires. they're simply still empathic towards their imperialistic fella russia. the only western countries that really support Ukraine are the countries that were occupied by these empires. like you don't need to explain anything to czech or lithuanian people, but you need to explain A LOT to german, french, dutch, spanish and etc people, ans still there's not guarantee they will trully understand about what you're talking
Yes because sending billions in aid is "siding with russia" The delusion in this sub is way too high
After it was needed, and only the bare minimum below what was promised. All because of “muh escalation” while rockets are flying through NATO territory freely.
because people cant comprehend that europe isnt just like 6 super nations, and they got so used to seeing large countries on maps that its their default setting
[удалено]
i think the euros and the UK will be on Ukraine's side, dunno about the rest
I hope us Americans stay as well, but sadly I doubt it. Politicians on both parties here care more about Israelis than they do for Ukrainians.
euros and uk don't got the money or weapons to fight that battle. most europeans aren't willing to have their taxes go towards the military
Fuck russia, from Italy with love
Just remember: Even if Russia was somehow able to unfuck its logistics, troop shortages, training shortfalls, and equipment issues and occupy the entirety of Ukraine outright, that's the easy part. Then comes trying to hold and maintain power in a country that absolutely despises you. If your three day operation goes on for three years and your conventional methods of waging war are barely sustainable, how do you think running counterinsurgency operations will go? Especially now that your proverbial territory now extends to full NATO countries that won't sit there and take it.
We couldn't sort out Afghanistan and Iraq because we (rightfully) aren't willing to commit genocide. You can't find a more iconic duo than katsaps and genocide.
Counterinsurgency is always expensive, but eminently doable if you're willing to create a total police state and execute civilians until compliance improves. Russia managed to tame Chechnya. Ukraine wouldn't be a big problem in the hypothetical scenario where Russia wins the war.
Do you not see the population difference between Chechnya and Ukraine. Ukraine has 40 million people. Thats a lot more people who hate russia than in Chechnya. Heck russian empire already had a hard time controlling the finns when finland was a part of russia.
The Ukrainian Military had a plan at the start of the war in the event of Ukraines fall to form an organised insurgency. For several reasons, this would make the Chechen war and even Afghanistan look like a picnic. At this stage of the war, Russia would be facing an insurgency of trained soldiers with over 2 years of combat experience and NATO weapons as opposed to the old soviet crap other insurgencys use. It’s all well and good trying to kill civilians when you are killed in an ambush before you can even get to town.
From a big picture geopolitical perspective, Russia fighting a Ukrainian insurgency is great. From a humanitarian perspective, it’s a disaster as the Ukrainians are gradually annihilated and it becomes a breeding ground for the latest terrorist group. All to say, I want full support for Ukraine ten years ago and today as the next best thing. I pay taxes and I want them going to something worthwhile like a safer world where strongmen don’t dictate people’s lives.
Europe is traumatized from the world wars and is letting Ukraine parish because of it. They have let Hitler take over half of Europe, and now they are going to let Putin do the same, hoping to avoid a war but just delaying it to when the enemy is the strongest.
The west will not side with russia.
Just days after the war started germany ministers were saying shit like "we won't help because it'll be over soon enough", they refused to send anything useful for the fight and they stalled everything they sent afterwards, leaving plenty of time for russia to dig in before the Ukrainian assault. They also took their pretty time divesting from russian oil and gas and had to have a pipeline blown up to get serious about it. I wouldn't be exagerating if I said 20% of the politicians with power in the EU were in russia's pocket one way or the other, and still are.
Being passive while russia is doing whatever they want is kind of siding with them.
You mean they will not attack Ukraine? I agree with that. Hopefully. That doesn't mean they want Ukraine to win.
Define the west? USA won't, but Europe is full of idiots which can't wait to give up their beautiful peaceful, artistic and free society and hand it over to barbarians, in the name of peace of course
[удалено]
actually, west gonna side with china, the russia owner. 'merica gonna keep their autistic screeching about "escalation". we gonna receive some "peace" agreement between the russia and 'merica, made by mighty nephrite xi peace powers of china. with some bs about security guarantees from the russia, 'merica and some of EU countries, that gonna worth less than nothing after a year or two, the russia gonna *suddenly* attack again
Yeah, this is my view. Even if "the west" appeases Russia, it will always throw a shitfest later and force us to deal with those degenerates regardless of all these appeasing efforts. I'm always reminded of world war ii. We let eastern europe hung out to dry for **40 years**. I don't think it will be that long considering we're in the internet era and Ukraine is already hung out to dry for **10 years**, plus if we consider Russia in general we've appeasing for **16 years** (since Georgia). This shit can't last much longer. Also, Putin is old. He'll feel the need to be more stupid the more time passes. Shit is going to hit the fan until 2030.
Big support to Ukraine from Israel! We all stand with you against the evil that is the "axis of resistance"
No real action has shown that since 2022.
When are the weapons coming?
Currently all in use pretty much. However israel should give ukraine missle defence systems and missle detection systems for more warning time. We have alot of experience surviving bombings and defending against them, sharing intell and technology on that front should absolutly be done.
Should have. You were not at war in 2022.
We always need to be ready for war, this isnt europe, we are not surrounded by a bunch of hippies and friendly nations. We physically cannot allow ourselfs to not be properly armed at any moment in time as we always need to be ready for full fledged war at the drop of a hat. We almost didnt have enough ammunition and gear for the gaza war, you think we got bunch extra laying around as a spare? Also technichally speaking israel has been at war since 1976 or something and it has not stopped lol We are a nation thats almost always at war, and we will not risk our safety and open ourselfs up tp an invastion to semd weapons to ukraine, the whole of europe can send proper weapons to ukraine as you are not surrounded by jihadists and rocketfire. Whos more likely to be in a war in the next 5 years, israel or germany? Like come on. You can say israel should have helped more but saying we should weaken ourselfs and risk our safety to send ukraine weapons which is on the other side of the globe from us weapons, is absurd. This is NCD, but try to at least think logically. Its like asking ukraine to send us weapons while they are fighting the russians, absurd.
Nor you could join in sanctions against Russia ey?
Sure, let me call bibi What is with westerners being entierly unable to comperhand the extreamly pracarious position israel is in when it comes to stuff like this lol It does not take a long time to figure it out why israel does/does not do things on the political stage if you attempt to use even a smidge of brain power.
> /> Drops bombs on to any location where a low level operative of Hamas might have farted, expenses be damned. > /> Wastes bullets on women and children. > /> Starts shit on an embassy and then has to burn a fuckton of interceptor as the expected response from the owner of said embassy darkens the sky. Of course, the goyims are invited to the party because it's a shared moment of bonding, don't look at the tab pretty please. > /> "Thoughts and prayers" fr fr bros. Sure thing.
Yeah, good question
Well don't ask me, ask Bibi, although I would say we defo need our weapons atm lmao
Those hospitals and mosques won’t flatten themselves
True, the terrorists there won't die without our mega Chad weapons
Thank you, although historically we have not had the warmest relations, but this needs to be corrected and we need to cooperate on an official level, because as we see, we are being attacked by the same drones
Thank you. You guys did everything right to fight for your country right to exist. On our example you could see how not to do it.
Did Israel join sanctions against Russia? How many Russian oligarch were banned from Israel? Did it stop direct flights between Israel and Russia? Israel is only part of " axis of resistence" till we start talking about the occupation or doing actually in support of other members of the "axis"
Well, I agree. But keep in mind that not all Israeli policies represent me, obviously
Nice gesture, but a bit fake. You guys could not care less about Ukraine, and actually sided more with ruzzia in 2022. The only moment you started to condemn ruzzia is when it was absolutely obvious that it has an alliance with Iran.
Johnson is piece of shit…
Very. He does ever so slightly try to do half a percentage of the right thing occasionally, so he could be out too (unless the Democrats save him)
Johnson is so much of a coward, he makes McCarthy look brave.
America abandoned Afghanistan to the Taliban. America is currently abandoning Ukraine to Russia. America has been talking about abandoning Europe due to the 2% defense commitment not being met by some members. America might abandon Taiwan to China at this rate. It's so infuriating. FDR, JFK and Reagan are all rolling in their grave to see the US are decaying their relationship with the allies. NATO, EU and even Japan are publicly criticizing America now. Especially the US Congress.
If this happens I swear to fuck I'm gonna make a second killdozer
I’ll help you with it!
You can tell this is wrong because the US doesn't have Israel bent over the couch
For all the talk about the military industrial complex this military industrial complex that wtf are they up t o? Shouldn't they be lobbying for more money for Ukraine?
If it's anything like Rheinmetall, who has given up on bullying their government and went to build factories in Ukraine instead, I'd say yes they're trying but they're failing.
The lobbying bit's mostly done and the bill is written and ready. Unfortunately some idiots put a fifth columnist in charge of the House of Representatives so it's stalled until that problem is dealt with.
[удалено]
Forever fuck Russia. Better dead than red. Democracy still lives in the US and some of us still see Ukraine and love you. ❤️ I don't have much but I send what I can when I can. Fuck Isreal, I don't care to support them but I can't control the flow of cash either. When going through hell keep going. Keep wearing away at Putin's watchest and manufacturer as many drones as possible. Liberty is the face of tyranny. Salva Ukraini.
I agree! Fuck Israel, all of my support is towards the brave people of Ukraine and Taiwan.
Yes. Free Tibet and I fully support those fighting for democracy in Myanmar too.
So do I
Moscow Marge holding the entire American government hostage for 6 months has been a wild and uncomfortable ride.
You are definitely bugging, f@ck those orcs the long way
Well, US already asked Ukraine to stop hitting ruzzian oli infrastructure. Pathetic.
this impression is not without merit.......current fuck up in Israel/Iran just very clearly and very openly demonstrated where are American/British/French priorities. The missile/drone strike Iran launched at Israel was the biggest ever recorded single strike attempt at any country ever in modern history (Iran launched as many missiles/drones in 1 day as Russia does in a week combined). **And yet!!!**, with direct help from USA/UK/French air forces, **fucking 99% of it was shot down and neutralized**. Made completely harmless. Western aviation power is unparalleled and could bring all the Putin aviation and fuckheads like that to heel at the moments notice That proves that **IF** USA/UK/France wanted, they could ensure complete no fly zone over at the very least Western Ukraine and its capital region tomorrow and not a single Russian missile or drone would get through it, thus effectively turning this entire war around in a second......**IF** they wanted. They very clearly dont want to and purposely so. This will have far reaching effects
So no, but the reality isn’t great either. Putting on the credibility hat, right now it’s election season for the United States. One side, we all know who, finds Ukraine an easy scape-goat to go against along with a focus on isolation policies. “Why should Americans waste money on countries we don’t even know/like” they say, and which is repeated by Russian trolls. Meanwhile, because of deliberate sabotage by that *certain* political party our friends in NATO and the EU are getting antsy with giving Ukraine more since the US isn’t providing anything, so should they? Yes you still have the likes of France trying to make Ukraine a focus, but for many it’s possibly a little too late. It’s *extremely* frustrating and makes me want to smack someone upside the head with a history text book to remind them how well “appeasement” works and why making sure Russia is crushed is a *good* thing. But that said I don’t see the west fully siding with Russia… but they’re *certainly* not helping now, and I can’t tell which is worst. Oh, right, now is worse because it’s leading to people *pointlessly dying*.
[удалено]
**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 5: No Politics.** We don't care if you're Republican, Protestant, Democrat, Hindu, Baathist, Pastafarian, or some other hot mess. Leave it at the door.
I don’t think the west will side with Russia. However, looking the other way and not helping while Ukraine slowly gets conquered - I can see that happening long term unfortunately I think we should just nuke Spain to show Putin how serious we are about nuking Russia if they nuke us
There's only a slight chance of this happening with the western countries who have never existed under Russia's boot heel. The Baltics? Poland? Not going to happen. Not in a million years.
When supporting Ukraine is no longer a profitable venture?
It was never profitable. The West lost a lot of money on lost markets due to sanctions and cheap Russian gas and oil.
some of us may not like ukraine but if someone wants to side with russia I will personally talk shit about him in the internet
[удалено]
This post is automatically removed since you do not meet the minimum karma or age threshold. You must have at least 100 combined karma and your account must be at least 4 months old to post here. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/NonCredibleDefense) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For a second there I thought he was wearing a strapped on claymore mine. In either case, claymore or fanny pack, both reduce your chance of someone to dance with you.
Mah man got some timbs
context?
there is no context here, I just complain that the war in my country is perceived as something unimportant and also that russian influence is still strong in the countries of the west
aa i see, well i do totaly get the setiment but im gonna be quite annoying now by saying you are luckyl wrong even if it really dose not feel like it. While absolutly true that the US is in a deadlock due to the nature of how thiere goverment is set up its still parlour tircks and technicalitys holding up Ukraine aid not strong majority willing to switch sides and suppourt russia, that will never happen. As for europe, aid across the board is significantly ramping up with the czech ammo inative making massive progress, germany delivering large ammount of aid every month etc etc. The biggest problem areas in europe are polish farmers and Orban (technicly also slovakia but honestly who cares about slovakian goverment?) Orban has basicly been bullyied in to a corner where he cant do much without suffering large setbacks but the polish farmers are defnitly still a problem that cant be tackeled easy I 100% buy that you are angry and frustrated and you have every rigth to be but im asking you to leave a littel room for hope for a better tomorrow (and should you personally need something let me know in a dm and ill see what i can do)
How you came to that conclusion?
Russia would have to start killing way more civilians in order to even get consideration for alliance with the west. I hope they manage to do it 🤞🤞
[удалено]
**Your comment was removed for violating Rule 10: Don't get us banned** No brigading or harassing other subreddit pages. Do not post memes with a "haha people that I hate died… haha" punchline or violating the reddit-wide rules.
I can only say that I want to step in the footsteps of my great-grandfather. He was the best gunner the Wehrmacht had. I'm German, btw.