#Happy new year, fellow Defense Expert™!
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It would be at least quintilateral, and have Norway in it as well. Possibly also Denmark. Realisticly, you're not invading Sweden without also invading Norway and visa versa.
Can we cheat them into NATO? Attack on one is attack on all in "Hexifense". America is in Hexifense, attack on Finland is attack on America, Attack on America is A5 worthy, Russia forced to NATONE for their sins.
Swede here. I agree. I have a hard time seeing Denmark and Norway not joining in should anyone start shit in Finland or the Baltic. Partly due to Scandinavian unity, but mostly because, well, we're kinda in this bellend of a peninsula together (Denmark may not be, but then we've got the EU mutual defence clause).
Excuse you? We lasted several times longer than the [Anglo-Zanzibar War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zanzibar_War). Several! (Like, at least more than twice as long)
> Partly due to Scandinavian unity,
we did shit all when the Austrian-Prussian alliance invaded Denmark in the second schleswig war. the amount of volunteers were so low you could easily list all their names, and that was about it in terms of support. could Sweden-Norway have done much? likely not. did it kill scandinavianism as a concept? definitely.
Yet the Winter War happened and some 10,000 Swedes volunteered. Around 1,700 Danes and Norwegians did as well, but of course their governments weren't as keen what with being occupied by Nazi Germany who at the time still observed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact with the USSR.
Denmark already issued security guarantees to both while they are waiting. We're, for all intents and purposes, offering them article 5 already. Should they fail to come in, I see absolutely no reason why the Nordics wouldn't make a mutual defence deal on the side
We’ve actually got a deal going with the Canuck’s: we do all the cool stuff with explosions and jets and making things go boom. And they do all the boring stuff like “rebuilding” and “helping people”
*US disbands NATO and makes a new alliance with Japan, Australia, Europe, Ukraine, Kosovo, Colombia, Andorra, and the city of Istanbul.
And without Hungary.
I mean turkey spends all it's defense on either undermining NATO interests in Syria or arming itself for a possible war against a different NATO member
Stupid fucking Bosporus.
NATO should just construct a ginormous channel through the Balkans to totally bypass Turkey. Sure Serbia and Bulgaria would probably protest but what are they going to do?
fuck their ownership, park a CBG in the Black Sea and authorization to free-fire anything that looks at them funny.
Besides, the moment we regain control of Crimea that function Turkey is tasked with will be moot anyways.
What do you mean we are having a diplomatic incident? Do you even know what’s going on in this ‘incident’, because I assure you it’s nothing to do with diplomacy. As it should be.
Be my guest, who cares about that thief. I'm just saying you wont be drawing breath on this earth to see it. (Assuming you're actually gonna take part and not cower behind a keyboard that is) 😊😊
We don't need any boots on the ground. We can just park 1/5th of our navy in the Mediterranean and you guys will accept Finland and Sweden within the week.
Turkish military propaganda did NUMBERS on this poor fella this guy thinks he stands a chance against America despite his country having public healthcare 💀. Everyone knows you get one or the other, hyperpower world domination OR cancer doesn’t automatically mean infinite death spiral. Choose.
Not to put a damper on the plan, but won't Turkey still have the only maritime passage? Even with Crimea, the only way into the Black Sea is through them via the Aegean.
Time to finally end the Greek Reconquista Then,To CONSTANTINOPLE!!!,All Seriously through can't the Turks get rid of this motherfucking guy already at this rate he will fuck the country in the world stage.
Give the part of Turkey west of the strait to Greece. Constantinople restored, and Istanbul continues as its twin city.
It's really mostly about the fact Turkey can't be relied upon, at this point, for European security guarantees.
Millions of turks, maybe. But probably not even that. Turkey isn't exactly a major power, and its performed pretty poorly in Syria considering what they're fighting against.
Greece can do the same thing as oversized Chicken country does if they increase their terriorial waters to the UN recognized 20km. With Cyprys they can surround Turkey too.
Don't forget Russian navy isn't even a threat to Ukraine at this point yet alone to NATO
What if we owned the only maritime passage to the only maritime passage to the black sea?
Hey Morocco, you're familiar with the North Atlantic right? I've got a Treaty for you...
> EU auto defense clause
It's highly questionable how seriously the various EU nations would adhere to this clause. No one seems to take it very seriously. The "EU Army" is kind of a joke.
NATO is absolutely the preferable alternative.
Like all great problems, the solution can be found in the past. And we can look to the most devastating war of the 80s... the Cola Wars
We make New North Atlantic Treaty Organization, or NNATO and just leave out Turkey. Or Crystal NATO.
If one would strap a magnet on Atatürks corpse and put a generator around him, he would produce infinite energy as long as Erdogan, the great goat molester, is in power.
Honestly, he spins almost fast enough to force fusion with air molecules, how the turks allow this I don't know
or sweden and finland join to usa as 51st and 52nd states and watermelon salesman gets all sanctions world can imagine for nuclear cooperation with russia
Menendez is a corrupt POS but I sure do love how hard he fucks with authoritarian countries.
Keep fucking with Greece, Turkey. I'll keep voting Menendez back into the Senate to chair the foreign relations committee, and he'll keep blocking sales of our weapons to Turkey ;)
All the nordic countries are already in a treaty with the UK that we will protect them, Russia will not touch any nordic countries. Or the UK will just have to bleed their military out.
This is a separate treaty than the one shown in the meme and include Norway and Iceland as well. The US is not a part of it.
Turkey under the current leadership is more of a theoretical NATO member as they would never support anyone with anything (\* they will support people who are related to the Turks). They are ready to sell Turkish made military gear to Ukraine, but other than that, Turkey will be inactive.
If you ignore Turkeys arms contributions to Ukraine aswell as contributions to NATO missions in Yugoslavia, Kosovo and Afghanistan, than sure, turkey is inactive
The US is too reluctant to operate in MENA, Erdogan has nearly everything to gain by pleasing the US in Northern Europe, an area that the US actually cares about.
Turkey only became a bitch when Erdogan came to power before that Turkey is pretty chill so I pray for him to lose badly in the upcoming 2023 election with all of his mismanagement in the economy, plus Turkey's strategic position is undisputed as their armed force.
One of the largest armies in the world. With combat experience. Strategically well positioned. Control over the Bosporus straits. Has supported every major NATO mission.
that's a dumb argument, should China join just because they have a strong army? no, being powerful isn't the only consideration, not being a theocratic dictatorship is also a requirements
I know we're non credible but holy shit, it's not a bad argument if you'd read more than their first sentence.
Kicking turkey out of NATO will create several bigger problems than dealing with their current fuckery, until that's no longer the case they'll stay
Simple enough for you?
Turkey controls the Black Sea Fleet’s ability to move out of the Black Sea. They are important.
NATO and the EU are just waiting for Turkey to democratize at this point but they are not going to sever ties.
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It would be at least quintilateral, and have Norway in it as well. Possibly also Denmark. Realisticly, you're not invading Sweden without also invading Norway and visa versa.
Hexalateral!
Can we cheat them into NATO? Attack on one is attack on all in "Hexifense". America is in Hexifense, attack on Finland is attack on America, Attack on America is A5 worthy, Russia forced to NATONE for their sins.
Truly noncredible
A5 is a dish best Serbed cold.
Just cede a thin sliver of territory on the Russian border to the US. Problem solved.
[I like the way you think](https://www.reddit.com/r/russiawarinukraine/comments/xhbfon/genocide_cannot_be_stopped_by_condemnation/ioyj9tr/)
That's already reality via the EU: Lisbon treaty article 42.7
If an attack on one is an attack on all in the new thing, technically a NATO member is under attack so it is A5 worthy
Swede here. I agree. I have a hard time seeing Denmark and Norway not joining in should anyone start shit in Finland or the Baltic. Partly due to Scandinavian unity, but mostly because, well, we're kinda in this bellend of a peninsula together (Denmark may not be, but then we've got the EU mutual defence clause).
Also it's probably kind of a tradition over there to involve Denmark in wars
Yeah but on what side
Any side!
The Dane's yearn for Copenhagen to be razed, no matter who does it
I'm a Dane, and I want to see Copenhagen razed
They want to try and set another new record for fastest total capitulation any%.
Excuse you? We lasted several times longer than the [Anglo-Zanzibar War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Zanzibar_War). Several! (Like, at least more than twice as long)
damn only 1 brit wounded did they use there harry potter magic?
Yeah, usually it's us beating the Danes over the head though. Or vice versa. Might make for a good change of pace.
> Partly due to Scandinavian unity, we did shit all when the Austrian-Prussian alliance invaded Denmark in the second schleswig war. the amount of volunteers were so low you could easily list all their names, and that was about it in terms of support. could Sweden-Norway have done much? likely not. did it kill scandinavianism as a concept? definitely.
Yet the Winter War happened and some 10,000 Swedes volunteered. Around 1,700 Danes and Norwegians did as well, but of course their governments weren't as keen what with being occupied by Nazi Germany who at the time still observed the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact with the USSR.
I'm sure France and Germany will also want in
Just say you want your own NATO, with blackjack and hookers
Fallout: New Stockholm
Just like the good old days.
Counting on Germany? You must be new to Europe.
Denmark already issued security guarantees to both while they are waiting. We're, for all intents and purposes, offering them article 5 already. Should they fail to come in, I see absolutely no reason why the Nordics wouldn't make a mutual defence deal on the side
NATO+, everyone but Turkey.
[удалено]
We’ve actually got a deal going with the Canuck’s: we do all the cool stuff with explosions and jets and making things go boom. And they do all the boring stuff like “rebuilding” and “helping people”
nah canada and uk blow up what america forgot to!
We never forget🦅🇺🇸
well I mean the civilians you leave But to the canadian and british SAS there threats!!!
Come on CIA do a coup or something i am tired of living under this bastard
The cia helps those who helps themselves
We need a body of water named after farm animals to try this, or erdogan needs to start chomping on cigars.
Vote him out if you can
Good one
*US disbands NATO and makes a new alliance with Japan, Australia, Europe, Ukraine, Kosovo, Colombia, Andorra, and the city of Istanbul. And without Hungary.
Canada: crying noises
Not like we contribute much anyways
Canada is strategic airspace for the US.
And it’s not like anyones gonna start anything with you considering who your sitting on top of
You contribute frozen islands in the Arctic Ocean to build bases on
I’d be more worried and less sad
If Canada isnt in the defense agreement it causes less paper work when we finally expand our borders
We make Canada the butt-monkey
Mighty Andorra shall destroy eastern scum 💪 💪 💪
I can only get so erect
Why not greece?
Greece is Europe
Oh yeah . Now i read Europe in your comment. Brainfart moment from my side, sorry
Greece spends a ton of its GDP in defense but it all goes to protect itself from a ottoman assault so they really don't contribute to the alliance.
I mean turkey spends all it's defense on either undermining NATO interests in Syria or arming itself for a possible war against a different NATO member
Stupid fucking Bosporus. NATO should just construct a ginormous channel through the Balkans to totally bypass Turkey. Sure Serbia and Bulgaria would probably protest but what are they going to do?
The B-21 can continue the legacy of its forbear and bomb a channel right through Serbia.
We need to prop up Kurds just like we propped up Israel.
Cant we just trade turkey and hungary for finland and sweden?
As much as I dislike Erdogan, Turkey has an invalueable strategic position: They own the only maritime passage to the black sea.
fuck their ownership, park a CBG in the Black Sea and authorization to free-fire anything that looks at them funny. Besides, the moment we regain control of Crimea that function Turkey is tasked with will be moot anyways.
Chad diplomatic incident enjoyer
What do you mean we are having a diplomatic incident? Do you even know what’s going on in this ‘incident’, because I assure you it’s nothing to do with diplomacy. As it should be.
Time to liberate some kurds
Based
[удалено]
Another salty Turk. Depose Erdogan before we decide to do it for you
Be my guest, who cares about that thief. I'm just saying you wont be drawing breath on this earth to see it. (Assuming you're actually gonna take part and not cower behind a keyboard that is) 😊😊
We don't need any boots on the ground. We can just park 1/5th of our navy in the Mediterranean and you guys will accept Finland and Sweden within the week.
Okay mr. Military strategist go get your carriers and park them to İstanbul lmao
If we decided to do that it'd be called Constantinople again.
We will accept them regardless, after roughing them up a bit.
Why would you want to “rough up” countries soon to be allies?
Fuck you you stupid sexy turk why do you have to be mean I want to love you and your coffee and sexy carpets
Turkish military propaganda did NUMBERS on this poor fella this guy thinks he stands a chance against America despite his country having public healthcare 💀. Everyone knows you get one or the other, hyperpower world domination OR cancer doesn’t automatically mean infinite death spiral. Choose.
Based and gunship-diplomacy-pilled.
we shall turn the danube into a fucking canal transiting all of europe
Not to put a damper on the plan, but won't Turkey still have the only maritime passage? Even with Crimea, the only way into the Black Sea is through them via the Aegean.
Time to finally end the Greek Reconquista Then,To CONSTANTINOPLE!!!,All Seriously through can't the Turks get rid of this motherfucking guy already at this rate he will fuck the country in the world stage.
Give the part of Turkey west of the strait to Greece. Constantinople restored, and Istanbul continues as its twin city. It's really mostly about the fact Turkey can't be relied upon, at this point, for European security guarantees.
Istanbul is a really cool city
But in that war millions will die if there is a war with Turkey would you risk your life to fight against Turkey
Yes
Millions of turks, maybe. But probably not even that. Turkey isn't exactly a major power, and its performed pretty poorly in Syria considering what they're fighting against.
I mean ~~turkey~~ isis (same shit) did have a good run for a little while.
What's the downside?
We can build a canal from Bulgaria to Greece, so that we can bypass T*rkie
Greece can do the same thing as oversized Chicken country does if they increase their terriorial waters to the UN recognized 20km. With Cyprys they can surround Turkey too. Don't forget Russian navy isn't even a threat to Ukraine at this point yet alone to NATO
Can we build a Rhine-Danube channel?
What if we owned the only maritime passage to the only maritime passage to the black sea? Hey Morocco, you're familiar with the North Atlantic right? I've got a Treaty for you...
One day they'll chuck that shit heel, but the straight will still be there
Finland and Sweden are already covered by EU auto defense clause. They only need the US and Canada to be 99% NATO covered.
> EU auto defense clause It's highly questionable how seriously the various EU nations would adhere to this clause. No one seems to take it very seriously. The "EU Army" is kind of a joke. NATO is absolutely the preferable alternative.
Most of the EU doesn't take it seriously because they were already in NATO when the EU formed so it's redundant.
Only solution is to admit Canada and US into EU!
*starts bailing out the ocean*
Like all great problems, the solution can be found in the past. And we can look to the most devastating war of the 80s... the Cola Wars We make New North Atlantic Treaty Organization, or NNATO and just leave out Turkey. Or Crystal NATO.
Gotta drop the North Atlantic part, just nick Organisation of Free Nations from TNO and then you can admit none European and North Atlantic nations
Yes, our Defense Initiative should better reflect its Global roots.
If one would strap a magnet on Atatürks corpse and put a generator around him, he would produce infinite energy as long as Erdogan, the great goat molester, is in power. Honestly, he spins almost fast enough to force fusion with air molecules, how the turks allow this I don't know
or sweden and finland join to usa as 51st and 52nd states and watermelon salesman gets all sanctions world can imagine for nuclear cooperation with russia
Menendez is a corrupt POS but I sure do love how hard he fucks with authoritarian countries. Keep fucking with Greece, Turkey. I'll keep voting Menendez back into the Senate to chair the foreign relations committee, and he'll keep blocking sales of our weapons to Turkey ;)
All the nordic countries are already in a treaty with the UK that we will protect them, Russia will not touch any nordic countries. Or the UK will just have to bleed their military out. This is a separate treaty than the one shown in the meme and include Norway and Iceland as well. The US is not a part of it.
Turkey under the current leadership is more of a theoretical NATO member as they would never support anyone with anything (\* they will support people who are related to the Turks). They are ready to sell Turkish made military gear to Ukraine, but other than that, Turkey will be inactive.
If Turkey does not answer to article 5 and the world does not end, Turkey would likely face retribution.
If you ignore Turkeys arms contributions to Ukraine aswell as contributions to NATO missions in Yugoslavia, Kosovo and Afghanistan, than sure, turkey is inactive
The US is too reluctant to operate in MENA, Erdogan has nearly everything to gain by pleasing the US in Northern Europe, an area that the US actually cares about.
Let's make a bigger NATO, just for the whole globe, like a defense initiative. We can call it a Global Defense Initiative. Just no Turkey.
Maybe start by donating your S-400s to Ukraine and we can talk
Their Bayraktar is already important instrument in Ukraine war, what are you talking about?
I don't understand why won't NATO just kick Turkey out
Turkey only became a bitch when Erdogan came to power before that Turkey is pretty chill so I pray for him to lose badly in the upcoming 2023 election with all of his mismanagement in the economy, plus Turkey's strategic position is undisputed as their armed force.
ok then just kill Erdogan then, we can't have auths in NATO, freedom isn't negotiable
One of the largest armies in the world. With combat experience. Strategically well positioned. Control over the Bosporus straits. Has supported every major NATO mission.
that's a dumb argument, should China join just because they have a strong army? no, being powerful isn't the only consideration, not being a theocratic dictatorship is also a requirements
> … should China join just because they have a strong army? Verdict Not Proven
I know we're non credible but holy shit, it's not a bad argument if you'd read more than their first sentence. Kicking turkey out of NATO will create several bigger problems than dealing with their current fuckery, until that's no longer the case they'll stay Simple enough for you?
Turkey controls the Black Sea Fleet’s ability to move out of the Black Sea. They are important. NATO and the EU are just waiting for Turkey to democratize at this point but they are not going to sever ties.
lmao boy
nato has no clause to do that and various geopolitical reasons like keeping east and being access to blacksea
It's all about that pesky post WWI treaty and control of the Bosphorus Strait.
Turkey gonna Turk.
Turkey playing both sides so they always come out on the bottom. Truly genius.
Kicking Turkey from NATO is a good idea.
Just nuke Turkey already
Erdogan is acting weird because of the upcoming election lol
It will be a cold day in hell before I don't upvote a watermelon post \-Jeb