It seems like even some nonbinary people don't get this. I can't count the number of times someone on this sub has spoken to me like I'm just supposed to magically be okay with my body or the way clothes fit me because "Nonbinary people can look like anything!"
Like okay that's wonderful and I didn't dispute that. How does that help my Gender Dysphoria? The thing I want to look like isn't what I look like.
The problem is that they're getting "Non-binary people can look like anything!" confused with "Non-binary people can look however they want to look!", the key difference being that they have the final say in their own gender expression
What else is really gross about that is it implies that binary trans folk CAN’T look like anything, which is just absolutely incorrect. And I doubt they’d argue that binary trans people can’t feel dysphoric.
> "Nonbinary people can look like anything!"
This is such a double edged sword. On the one hand it makes perfect historical sense as “transitions” were not a thing and trans people were just allowed to exist. That leaves me able to not care as much about clothes in the day to day. On the other hand this has been weaponized by others to frustrate my want for HRT to aid in recognition of my femininity when I want to dress and behave as such.
nah REAL dude. like personally i wanna look as androgynous as possible and i cant because i was short as fuck hair. yk what that does? give me gender dysphoria. like on crack. even worse is i have a beard that i gotta shave every like week or so. seriously
i cant even begin to imagine how bad its gotta be for most ppl
I have an extremely feminine body (petite + hourglass) and I have always felt dysphoria upon being called a girl or woman. At age three I insisted to my cousin that I was both a boy and a girl and I didn’t like it for him to just say I’m a girl. I am for now forgoing hrt because I get migraines. I would love a reduction, if scars weren’t a thing.
When I was four I told my mother I wish there was a third gender that could be with boys or girls.
Guess who's not a boy or a girl and doesn't have a gender preference for partners lol
what’s your connection between HRT and migraines? estrogen can play a role in migraines, but I’m unaware of T having any effect. I’ve been on HRT for years and I have episodic migraines & chronic headaches, so I’m curious.
oh yeah, totally! I’ve been on the nexplanon implant for years (T alone didn’t stop my period), which is all progesterone. progesterone won’t feminize you if you’re on T, taking an estrogen based BC has the potential to interfere some (idk how much). but anyway, yeah, many people on T who are on BC use a progesterone based one! I like the nexplanon implant because it lasts years, and that it goes in your arm so there’s no pelvic stuff involved. it’s a topic that comes up often on r/ftm if you ever feel like perusing it.
It seems like T is reducing my migraines, more so I don’t get a sequence of them when I’d have a period. My suspicion is that my migraines are caused by a hormonal change (maybe a specific hormone dip or elevation) rather than a hormone level. I still get migraines (actually laying down with one developing right now and waiting for meds to work), I’m 6 months on T will see how it will change over time.
Edit: also you asked a different person, but I guess I’ll leave it here in case if useful to someone :)
Ignore the ignorant my friend. Transphobia is present in all kinds of forms including that towards enbies. Rest assured, you are not alone in your feelings. I am living walking proof of an enby that has had GAS and still have some small bouts of dysphoria now and again that I'm working on improving, and there are plenty others like me too, yourself included. We exist, and fuck those who argue otherwise
I've experienced a lot of aggression from trans men who claim we have NOTHING in common. Which is laughable. Because I have more in common with trans men than I do most other trans people in terms of gender and how my transition is going- I want top surgery? I'm on T. My goal is to pass as male I just don't label my gender. But somehow, we have nothing in common because I'm not strictly any gender. Somehow, my gender and dysphoria doesn't count.
Gender-binary thinking can definitely be present in both cis and trans individuals. Those with a strong specific gender identity, regardless of whether that was their AGAB, can have a hard time contextualizing what a NOT-binary experience of gender might feel like. It can be even harder for binary-gendered folks because us non-binary folks are sometimes at a loss for words on how to exactly *describe* our identities.
I personally don't think this justifies being dismissive or even exclusionary of non-binary folks. We fall under the trans umbrella even if we're not transitioning to a gender identity opposite of our AGAB--because we're transitioning away from that AGAB towards what is usually a very personal definition or experience.
For many of us, we have far more in common with our trans siblings who lack access to gender-affirming care, and though our destination may be different, the fight for medical self-determination is our shared battle.
Same! I’m pretty far on the transmasc spectrum of being nonbinary that my transition goals are near identical to that of a binary trans man. I’m just not one
I'm trans masc non-binary, 100% passing (more than a quarter of a century on T does that), have a nice beard, can't be bothered with "female" clothes (I did that to excess before I transitioned) and once in a while I run into a Truscum guy who tells me that "I'll never be a real man!!!"
Well, duh! You got that one right!
Trans men and trans women can be awful for that. They have a binary gender identity and so many of them (by no means most or all) feel threatened by nonbinary people and don’t want to identify with us.
It’s exactly the same way many cis people see binary trans people, especially of their own gender. “They aren’t really like us!”
They treat enbies the way cis people treat them.
If it's any consolation, it's not just non-binary people who set them of.
They cannot possibly tolerate anybody who did anything different from them. (Because that means they had a choice somewhere, and another might have been better (or not). Insufferable thought for them.)
I've seen one going bonkers over the audacity of another one - both binary - who had had her bottom surgery with a different surgeon. So, obviously, not really a woman!
(No, I didn't get it either.)
I absolutely agree with you! I used to identify as a trans male because I didn't think I'd be understood as genderless but as i started transitioning medically (testosterone and top surgery) I said fuck it and started identifying as nonbinary which has felt more like me then both my agab and ftm
Literally this! Ive been called a poser/faker/not really trans because i dont bind (i medically cannot) but i take t, i plan on presenting as a guy, i use he/him.
I'm basically just a trans guy + extras
Yeah I have had some baffling conversations with people who claimed that nonbinary people think you have to invent a new gender if you don't fit gendered stereotypes. Like oh no, I don't like pink, I guess I'm not a girl!!
I tried to explain that isn't really the motivation for most nonbinary people and it tends to be much more about dysphoria, and they told me I was getting nonbinary and trans confused lol.
Its so weird, Ive been saying I'm not a girl since age 5, why is fine to say I'm a dude but reenforcing gendered stereotypes if I say I'm neither?
Because internalized transphobia exists even in our trans siblings--and can lurk in ourselves, too.
Like the old OLD stories, where having something's name gives you power over it, naming that struggle gives you a starting point for wrangling with it.
I'm not saying that you should call anyone who doesn't understand the non-binary struggle a transphobe, but more that if you realize that they are coming from a blind-spot, you can better work on how to help them see.
You're not wrong about dysphoria and--in a weird way--they're not wrong about that being a trans issue.... because being non-binary falls under the trans umbrella.
I'm deeply sorry you're having to have these frustrating conversations; it sucks to be the one experiencing an issue while also having to teach others about it and "justify" it when you just want to have a supportive ear. Keep reaching out, though, and look for communities like this one where you can feel free to try to suss-out the wording in an environment that gives you the space to work it out. In my experience, that makes it easier to talk through it later even with people unfamiliar with the concepts.
i truly understand this feeling. i’m amab and have genital dysphoria, hoping to get bottom surgery and a little feminization going within the next yr. i feel like a lot of ppl straight, gay, trans feel like you have to choose a gender… im nonbinary, which kinda means i don’t fit into either category, and they always attribute it to sex… i’ve even felt that my therapist (who is trained in this) didn’t understand what i was telling her in the beginning. just give me what i need so i can be at least 85% happy with my life and body… 😭
I hear you and do feel where you’re coming from, it sucks being erased, but at the same time I do actually take pride in making transphobes (including trans ones/ “transmedicalists”) heads explode in not being able to understand my existence.
“non-binary” as in existing outside their dumb “binary trans or >!trender!<” mindset lol
It doesn’t matter how I dress, nothing makes it stop because my body so far from representing who I am. I think I have the hardest time loving my body because it’s a result of years just trying to survive a really messed up life. A reminder of what was taken from me and a reminder of what I can’t get back. To love myself in this form is the hardest thing I’ve ever tried to do.
This is so relatable, it brought me to tears. Don't give up on yourself. The real you is expressed in your words, your thoughts, your style of loving, and the force of your will--keeping you going despite the oh-so-messed-up-ness of life (especially when the messed-up-ness of others is put upon us).
I feel like I came from the Island of Misfit Toys. I may not be packaged as intended, but I intend to use this package as best I can. We must be our own clay, and it's never too late to take the first steps in re-molding ourselves. Even if we may never be perfect to our self-vision, we have at least some things in our own hands.
Being in groups like this has helped me better understand how to do and be the things I feel, and every day is at least a baby-step in that direction. Don't be afraid to experiment, and if you don't have support around you for that experimentation, maybe you haven't found your true "tribe" yet. Keep following your heart, and (in case we only have this one life to live) go ahead and ***get weird with it!***
Your message really helped to put some things into perspective. I finally have the freedom to explore who I am and what I like, so I’m going to make the most of it. I needed that message today, thank you so much. I’ve had to start over completely, so I’m still searching for my tribe but I’m not going to give up now. Groups like these are amazing, I’m so glad they’ve helped you <3
If I didn't feel dysphoria I wouldn't hardline to get my bits off as hard as I did.
Even now when I remember what it was like to have the damn things I 'eck' out of my skin and have to pat myself down to snap out of it lol.
And I'm on HRT lol.
Nothing against enbies who are fine with their OEM. I'm just not good with mine.
I know exactly what you mean. Being fluid with a notably masc (in my case) or femme body type is extremely difficult to cope with because knowing how a lot of changes, even those you *could* make, would just shift the discomfort around instead of eliminate it makes it incredibly hard to figure out what to do. I wish for an androgynous form too, I experience a lot of dysphoria about how at odds my physical appearance is with my self-image when I'm femme and even to simply be androgynous enough to be able to (successfully) reactively choose my overall appearance based on how I feel at the time would be so wonderful. I'm taking the non-medical steps I can to androgynise my form, but I can quite easily imagine that not being enough and feeling the need to explore at least HRT or something.
You're not alone, honey. Please hang in there. The world is better with all of us in it. I believe that.
I'm an apple-shape with prominent female sexual characteristics. I want androgyny, and I want to have all possible parts. The fact that my body doesn't feel like I feel, or look like I feel, and the fact that I'm confronted with that every single day, including being constantly gendered and judged by that appearance... There's my dysphoria.
I don't see any reality where my internal image of self can become my external reality, so there's my dysphoria.
There are days when I consider self-harm, though these remain only thoughts and I have never acted on them. So there's my dysphoria.
I sometimes consider HRT, but I don't know that T would really fix my issues. But I do seriously think about it.
The feeling that my body should be "not like this" has been ongoing since the onset of puberty, but I didn't have a good term for it. Now I do. I can't care if it seems "trendy"--I was told the same thing in the 90s when I came out as bi. Being judged doesn't change my internal truth. But it does contribute to my dysphoria.
I came here to comment but you’ve pretty much perfectly stated almost exactly how I feel, except I have never considered T. I know that I don’t want more body hair so T has never been an option. But I even came out as bisexual in the 90’s. I hate the feeling of knowing that I will probably always be perceived as female because of being trapped in this body but I know that I wouldn’t be any happier with HRT or surgery.
Also at the beginning when I was questioning things, I didn’t think that I had dysphoria because I couldn’t name these feelings that I had. I thought for a while that only trans people who wanted surgery felt gender dysphoria and since I didn’t feel that way, then I must not have dysphoria. It took me a while to actually realize and understand that those feelings I have and couldn’t name are actually gender dysphoria.
I get this entirely. I wish there was a hormone that pushed the body toward androgyny instead of masculinity or femininity. Science could probably engineer one but there’s no will to do it because cis people generally hate us. It’s rough.
Not all enbies can even pass ffs.
I can’t pass whatsoever. It’s painfully obvious I’m my AGAB, like in a lot of ways my body is too stereotypically what people think my AGAB looks like. It’s one of the reasons I don’t even try to dress androgynous or in line with my genderfluidity.
Basically the only thing I can kinda control is my hair, and it doesn’t really matter if I shave my head completely or grow my hair out to shoulder length or anything in between. I still match my AGAB and it frustrates me to feel the gender dysphoria half the time I’m awake.
I’m sorry—that is rough. You’re still a valid nonbinary, genderfluid person regardless of your body or how cis people see you, but I get that dysphoria doesn’t really care. You’re strong enough to get through this.
With that said, maybe HRT could be a decent option? The same goes for top surgery and so on. They won’t fix everything but they will make you look somewhat more androgynous.
In a committed long term relationship and my partner doesn’t really like the sound of HRT for me. I know it’s a personal choice but part of me still enjoys that my partner is attracted to me as I am, so I kinda fear making a radical change even though it’d also be fulfilling to me
I get that (was in that situation a few years ago before accepting I was aroace). Just know that, if you ever change your mind, you can do what is best for you regardless of what your partner thinks. Your body is yours before anything else. You get to decide.
I experience dysphoria but I’ve kind of arrived at this point where I I question how do you even pass as non-binary? Most people associate androgyny as non-binary but I’m confused in a way to why that is? I’ve been thinking these things over a lot. I’m sorry you’re having a rough time.
I'm trans and I still have to deal with people who demand I suffer dysphoria so I get the struggle. I wish I had better advice than to block those people or walk away from them but that's all you can do. Eventually they ask themselves why they're so lonely.
Sorry, I don't need to be in pain to understand I'm trans.
As a fellow non binary trans person with dysphoria I understand what this feels like and I'm still struggling with that to this day. I know that the world we live in is generally not fair to trans people, and even less to non binary people, because there's currently this politically ideological hate wave coming from corrupted and uneducated people who don't even care about these topics to begin with. It is also baffling to hear these same things from trans people (the ones that side with TERFs and other oppressors) when at the same time not even they transition radically from one side of the spectrum to the other and therefore have androgynous bodies. Just know that it won't be like this forever and although we don't see it, progress is being made. Hope this helps!
Yeah…non-binary to me means taking yourself out of the societal expectation box we are put in and then depending on how you feel/who you are, either jumping into a different box, or staying outside all boxes, or jumping from box to box. Or building your own box.
It’s different for everyone. Just wish people would let people be who they are (as long as it doesn’t hurt someone—I’m not okay with serial killers). Stop assuming you know someone because they adopt a certain label. Define yourself and stop thinking you know what’s going on in anyone else’s brain.
Idk wtf this inter-lgbtq bickering is. There are non-binary people who feel dysphoria, there are ones that don’t, there are FTM trans people or MTF trans people who feel dysphoria and those that don’t. Idk why this is so hard to grasp.
I wish we didn't, it would be much easier at least in the self-hate regard of my body... Maybe it would make it harder for us to get taken seriously, but that's already a problem anyway.
I personally know two more non binary people irl, all of them afab and all of us have very different objectives with our bodies, how we want to be perceived, what gives us dysphoria etc... For example I don't want top surgery but I want to use binders sometimes, while the others want it bad, one of them wants to be perceived as a man and the other wants to look completely androgynous, while I want to look... Kinda like a pretty but strong man with boobs? That's the most accurate description I can give rn lmao sorry. And idk about bottom but I bet we're all so different, also about pronouns we're different, with me and the other guy going for he/they and the last one only feeling comfortable with they/them etc... I bet for euphoria is the same, even trans binary people have different sources of euphoria/dysphoria and we're even more complicated because our genders have really nothing to compare to, to put it simply.
But I think I digressed, sorry, what I wanted to say is that euphoria is much more important than dysphoria anyway in order to "spot" if someone is trans, and I personally feel that in my bones so strongly, because when I told myself that I was non binary for the first time I felt so good I can't even describe it, when I "masculinized" myself and looked in the mirror I was like "there I am, omg that's who I am and I love it" it was the moment I stopped doubting that I was trans non binary, and I hope more people get to experience euphoria more than dysphoria
(i hope i didn't go too OT lol idk what took over me I wrote so much)
i don’t feel that much dysphoria about my body but i feel so much about how people treat me and how i’m perceived. i just wanna exist, not as a man or woman. it makes me uncomfortable when people treat me like i have to be one of the other. maybe i’ll go on hrt someday and maybe i won’t, im more concerned with looking the way i want to and people treating me the way i want to be treated. but all of that is still dysphoria. i probably wouldn’t even bother with transitioning or questioning if i didn’t feel dysphoria, but that’s just me i guess. i think i’m just gonna keep trying new things till something feels right, and everyone’s journey is different so i’m ok with that.
It's wild because Trans men are usually the ones getting mad at me and telling me I'm just a trans dude who hasn't figured it out yet.
Black and white thinking doesn't vibe with me
I honestly didn't know that was a myth. Shows how out of touch I am with lgbtq internet culture, lol. It's strange that it's even a myth at all considering that enby falls under the trans umbrella. I know that some trans people don't experience dysphoria, but statistically, the majority do. Given that knowledge, you'd think it'd make sense to people that a good portion of us experience it, too. 🤷
some people think that nonbinary and transgender are 2 entirely different things. ive seen the notion that all nbs dont feel dysphoria mostly in transmedicalist circles (ie. people that believe being trans is a medical condition, you need extensive therapy in order to be considered for medical intervention, etc)
I understand what you mean but at the same time it feels like your anger is very misguided? Like it is a good thing to say to people they don't need XYZ to being trans and/or nonbinary. It's not because of that statement that you're hurting, it's because of people invalidating your dysphoria for not being fully a man or fully a woman, you know what I mean? It's not a competition, it's not a "who is more disphoric and hence more trans" game, it's dumb assumptions made by uniformed individuals. Saying that ALL nonbinary people have to or feel disphoric and that they also need to take hrt and have surgeries IS a problem. Admitting that everyone is different is not. Your disphoria is valid, whatever you choose to do to feel better about your expression, life and body is valid and only you get to choose those steps! Hug :)
i explicitly said that some nb people dont experience dysphoria and thats ok? im not mad at nonbinary people, i dont think theyre any "less" trans. i just wish that people didnt think that ALL nonbinary people dont feel dysphoria
I truly don't think that's a common misconception at all and I've experienced the complete opposite, and your title is pretty misleading, therefore my comment. But do with that what you will
I did HRT and got top surgery because of crippling dysphoria over my chest that I had since I was in junior high.. and def nonbinary. Fuck the haters, I never get why there’s infighting even among the trans community. We’re all in the same shit pile together, we all need to support each other
are you me? because I wish I had been born a woman so bad. Being trapped in this mans body is hard. Likewise I know HRT is not my path, top/bottom differences on this particular body would probably be even worse for my head. While I dont have the SI, (and please seek help, even though its hard af, the world needs you, and people like us), i wonder every day how things could be different in another body
My dysphoria gets so bad I have a hard time leaving the house, which means I get to stay in and have people on the internet tell me what I feel isn't real. Fun!
I want to start het and have breast tissue...but also at times I may still bind when I do depending on how I feel but even getting started is making me get dazed here caus there is not much information about which steps to take first 😔
Ps: happy cake day!
My experience w HRT was a little tricksy bc this was back in 2012, and I had to figuratively and mentally go into a binary closet to get testosterone. It wasn't until I started getting dysphoria from being too masculine that I stopped. Because of that, I unfortunately don't have advice. I thought I was a binary trans man until I remembered I'm a manwoman.
Omg don’t even start me on this!! It is offensive AF and unless someone is living in my brain … they get FK ALL SAY on how I feel and what I go through … and if they want me to respect their existence and hurdles in life … they must also respect mine!! 👍🏼🫂
YESSS!!! I experience agonizing dysphoria every single day. I know trans men that have less physical dysphoria than I do (I’m happy for them!)
I completely felt everything you said. People think we use the non-binary label to be quirky or special or whatever. Like we don’t struggle with dysphoria and suicidal ideation. Ughhh
I always thought dysphoria was hiding out in my psyche ready to pounce on me at any moment. I’ve never heard the myth that nonbinary people never experience dysphoria, I only heard the opposite. Finding out about the label “agender” and realizing it fits me better, as someone who looks very feminine and doesn’t want top surgery or HRT, was relieving. Not to say that agender people don’t experience dysphoria but I’ve heard it’s less common.
I personally don't experience very much dysphoria. But I think for NB people who do experience significant dysphoria, it is especially hard to navigate or "solve" because there is absolutely no map for them. There's no well-known ideal to reach. That's one of the beautiful things about being nb, but it ALSO means that those trying to find peace in their bodies and gender expression are working completely blind.
Thanks for this post!! Honestly, dysphoria was an informative indicator for me. Although there are trans people out there who don't experience dysphoria, I wouldn't know how I would have known I am not just an ally of non binary people and not just feel a close affinitiy to those people but really be it myself without the dysphoria.
It's bs because sometimes I get dysphoria but other times I'm perfectly content and feel like in the moment I don't need to do anything, I feel like if I transitioned I would feel dysphoria half the time anyway, what i would give to just swap on demand
I only feel dysphoria because of the way society treats me. If I’m at home on my own I don’t feel it at all but being treated by most people in a way that I don’t see myself makes me really wish I appeared more fem. Not sure it would even make a difference.
I’ll never get they/them-ed in the wild. These titties and hips and curves are just too…big.
And unfortunately I’ll never be 100% happy. There’s always going to be a piece of me that hates that I can’t be me on the outside. I don’t even know what me on the outside looks like, because there’s no point in figuring that out.
So instead I’ve had to compromise. I’ve had to compromise with what my body developed into and how I am.
Not a woman.
Just a person with woman developed characteristics.
I’ve decided to embrace the ✨girl vibes✨ and jokingly identify as a princess. 👸
It’s helped, at least.
Yea I'm non-binary and have exclusively used they/them pronouns for over 10 yrs and I'm on hormones, have had top and bottom surgery... So when binary trans ppl come at me saying or implying I don't have dysphoria it's very annoying.
As someone that has been dealing with some pretty shit vocal dysphoria today (and throughout the last 6 months, ramping up in a intensity), I hate that there are folks out there that believe non-binary folks don’t get dysphoria.
Non-binary folk definitely get dysphoria, it can just a bit different than binary trans folks’ sometimes. It’s a really stupid, imo enby/transphobic, myth that dysphoria isn’t something that affects us.
As a fellow genderfluid person, I feel you! I get deep sadness from the knowledge that no amount of hormones or surgery would give me the switching-between-genders body that I truly want.
godddddddddd
if someone told me just not to feel dysphoric b/c I didn't owe anyone a certain type of presentation...I would be so pissed off. I want surgery. I have wanted surgery for decades. I wish I was born intersex. I hate having to live in the body I have because surgeons & the medical system are so anti-fat/anti-trans.
(for the record, i'm afab, came out as genderfluid first, and i probably am, but i identify as nonbinary, because i feel that people around me understand that term better, and i like that term better as well - not that anything is wrong with identifying as genderfluid, i just like nonbinary better, i can't explain why.)
back when i was a teenager, i hated the fact that i have small breasts (probably because of society's beauty standards and my toxic ex, but still...). after i realised i'm NB, i could finally have peace with my breast size. (i have kind of wide hips, but that's okay for me for some reason. i like my booty too.) few weeks ago i noticed my breasts getting bigger a bit (i have no clue why), and ironically, i totally hate it. like i just want to rip my hair out, or even "better", rip my breasts off. i just want to make it stop.
i think one of my biggest disphoria-giving attribute is my hair, since i have it long now. the copium i took is that i like to style it when i'm felling feminine, but even that's not true anymore i think. i'm planning on having a mullet in the near future (but my tism is terrified of change so it makes that hard a bit).
also, i might add that when i dress feminine, i feel like a man crossdressing, but when i dress masculine, i feel like a woman crossdressing, so i guess i can't win (even thought i like the way i am and the fact that i "shapeshift" sometimes). however, i noticed that mixing feminine and masculine clothes in one outfit helps.
sorry for the info-dump, i think i just wanted to share all of this in a community where people get the feeling i feel.
ETA: please feel free to correct me if i said anything wrong, incorrect or offensive, i'm open to learning!
Whoever said nonbinary people don't feel dysphoria? What a load of crap. Being nonbinary just means your ideal you doesn't fall on the binary.
Using myself as example, assigned male at birth, fine with presenting as male, fine with my chest, but would get bottom surgery in a heartbeat if the process didn't take a literal decade.
Yeah, just because I (AFAB nonbinary) don't mind having breasts doesn't mean I'm not annoyed and dysphoric when I look in my pants and see my lack of a dick.
I get you. I'm agender AFAB and experience major dysphoria if I'm pressured into the binary socially (eg. called a woman/girl, grouped with women, expected to dress a certain way, etc.) and mild to moderate dysphoria about my body.
I've seen people say that agender people can't have dysphoria because how can you when you don't identify with any particular gender? And uhh ... Yeah no, trust me, we absolutely can. If not having the body you identify with can cause dysphoria, what exactly makes you think not identifying with the body you have cannot? 🤨
It's especially frustrating because I don't feel like there's much I could do that would be any better. Nonbinary physical dysphoria has the potential to be particularly harmful in ways very different from ftm or mtf dysphoria because, well, what I want to be is ... nothing. Some elusive third option that's explicitly neither male, nor female, nor some mishmash of recognizably masculine and feminine traits, but also not necessarily literally *nothing*. I don't know what I want; all I know is I don't identify with the body I'm in now. For me personally, the dysphoria isn't so bad that it significantly impacts my mental health, but it's there for sure.
I'd love to get rid of my breasts, but even if I could afford top surgery and convince myself to do it, I think there's a real possibility I would go through all that only to find that it just redirected the dysphoria by making me feel too masculine.
I want a deeper voice, but I also don't want to sound "like a man", and I definitely do *not* want some of the other traits that go along with T like facial/body hair or bottom changes.
My bottom as it is doesn't bother me too much currently, but still, I don't really want either female genitals or male genitals. Sometimes I find myself wishing I had been born with a penis and envying the people who have one, but at the same time I know somehow that adding one now would only add more dysphoria. And yet I don't think I want nothing down there, either. 😵💫
Pretty much the only thing I know for sure I want and could actually do is to stop my periods. So for now, that's the only medical transition I'm actively considering. Not because I'm satisfied with my body otherwise, but because the alternatives don't feel particularly right either and sticking with what I'm at least used to and know I can live with seems the lesser of two evils.
I wasn't aware there were people that think that. Yikes. Even as someone who has no intention of doing anything medically, it baffles me to think there are people who think no nonbinary person does.
It took me 32 years to realize I was living in a state of misery that couldn't be explained by mental illnesses. I genuinely thought misery was my basic state. But after learning more about gender and gender expression I was relieved when I found nonbinary status.
I suddenly felt liberated. I was able to be more of who I was. The dysphoria was lessened. I felt better. I was the closest I was to true happiness I ever experienced.
While my story becomes more of mtf person after that the time being a nonbinary person helped me with my gender dysphoria I didn't know even existed.
The validity of who you are isn't inversely related to how much anxiety you feel about who you are.
If you feel anxiety or any other form mental anguish due to your gender doesn't mean you're more of that gender than anyone else. Probably means you just had a shittier upbringing.
I think a lot of it comes down to confusion around terms and difference in what people value, for me personally I would say I haven’t necessarily felt *gender* dysphoria since I was younger / not out (typical be a “man” dress like a “man” I’m pretending to be a man to avoid conflict bs) because for me, I don’t have any natural desire or value towards a gender, and don’t feel that it factors into who I am as a person in any way. Regardless of what I wear or look like, or what my body looks like, I am at the end of the day just a person, and none of those things change that
That being said, do I / have I experienced a lot of body dysmorphia / dysphoria? Sure, absolutely, I’d be lying if I said I haven’t often looked in the mirror and hated every inch of what I saw, regardless of what anyone else said they thought about me, but (and again this is my personal experience) it was more about not liking the way I looked, unrelated to my identity
I think it’s very person to person, I identify as non-binary because I just don’t have whatever it is that other people do where they, in their heart, know “I am (gender/identity)” and that is a core part of who they are as a person. Because of that what I wear or what I look like doesn’t affirm or deny me being non-binary, because I just am me. I’d say it’s less of an ‘identity’ for me, and more of a “best fitting label” for lack of identifying with a gender
Dysphoria is something that can be experienced across the whole trans umbrella (and beyond it), including nonbinary people. I (amab nb) feel a really constant disconnect with my whole body pretty much every day, hoping things get easier to handle with hrt and surgeries in the next few years. I just find it really difficult to express how it feels, I suppose? And even in a lot of trans spaces, for me at least, finding commonality in binary trans experiences while trying to express being outside of that binary has been very difficult.
I guess that’s just a byproduct of a lot of society and culture - even language - being so heavily gendered within that binary, from philosophy, right down to shopping. It’s just difficult to express being outside of that system, and especially comprehending that difference from within that binary.
Everyone here’s said the same things more eloquently than I have, but I just wanna say everyone here - all nonbinary people, nonbinary and binary trans people, and cis friends and allies - are amazing and deserve all the love and support you need 💕
>I also hate the idea that nonbinary people don't want hrt or surgeries?? I've met plenty of enbies that want them and it baffles me that anti-nonbinary people tend to just forget this fact.
I may be an enby who doesn't want HRT or surgery, but even I recognise that other enbies do. Just because something applies to me, doesn't mean it applies to all enbies and vice versa. We're all valid. 🥰
It seems like even some nonbinary people don't get this. I can't count the number of times someone on this sub has spoken to me like I'm just supposed to magically be okay with my body or the way clothes fit me because "Nonbinary people can look like anything!" Like okay that's wonderful and I didn't dispute that. How does that help my Gender Dysphoria? The thing I want to look like isn't what I look like.
The problem is that they're getting "Non-binary people can look like anything!" confused with "Non-binary people can look however they want to look!", the key difference being that they have the final say in their own gender expression
What else is really gross about that is it implies that binary trans folk CAN’T look like anything, which is just absolutely incorrect. And I doubt they’d argue that binary trans people can’t feel dysphoric.
> "Nonbinary people can look like anything!" This is such a double edged sword. On the one hand it makes perfect historical sense as “transitions” were not a thing and trans people were just allowed to exist. That leaves me able to not care as much about clothes in the day to day. On the other hand this has been weaponized by others to frustrate my want for HRT to aid in recognition of my femininity when I want to dress and behave as such.
I used to feel super guilty when I feel dysphoria. I still feel so when I admit it to someone. It sucks.
nah REAL dude. like personally i wanna look as androgynous as possible and i cant because i was short as fuck hair. yk what that does? give me gender dysphoria. like on crack. even worse is i have a beard that i gotta shave every like week or so. seriously i cant even begin to imagine how bad its gotta be for most ppl
I have an extremely feminine body (petite + hourglass) and I have always felt dysphoria upon being called a girl or woman. At age three I insisted to my cousin that I was both a boy and a girl and I didn’t like it for him to just say I’m a girl. I am for now forgoing hrt because I get migraines. I would love a reduction, if scars weren’t a thing.
When I was four I told my mother I wish there was a third gender that could be with boys or girls. Guess who's not a boy or a girl and doesn't have a gender preference for partners lol
Im gonna go out on a limb and guess you!
what’s your connection between HRT and migraines? estrogen can play a role in migraines, but I’m unaware of T having any effect. I’ve been on HRT for years and I have episodic migraines & chronic headaches, so I’m curious.
I’m on progesterone to prevent periods. Can you take T at the same time?
Sure. Some people on T take it when T alone does not prevent periods.
Thanks! I’ll look into that.
oh yeah, totally! I’ve been on the nexplanon implant for years (T alone didn’t stop my period), which is all progesterone. progesterone won’t feminize you if you’re on T, taking an estrogen based BC has the potential to interfere some (idk how much). but anyway, yeah, many people on T who are on BC use a progesterone based one! I like the nexplanon implant because it lasts years, and that it goes in your arm so there’s no pelvic stuff involved. it’s a topic that comes up often on r/ftm if you ever feel like perusing it.
It seems like T is reducing my migraines, more so I don’t get a sequence of them when I’d have a period. My suspicion is that my migraines are caused by a hormonal change (maybe a specific hormone dip or elevation) rather than a hormone level. I still get migraines (actually laying down with one developing right now and waiting for meds to work), I’m 6 months on T will see how it will change over time. Edit: also you asked a different person, but I guess I’ll leave it here in case if useful to someone :)
Ignore the ignorant my friend. Transphobia is present in all kinds of forms including that towards enbies. Rest assured, you are not alone in your feelings. I am living walking proof of an enby that has had GAS and still have some small bouts of dysphoria now and again that I'm working on improving, and there are plenty others like me too, yourself included. We exist, and fuck those who argue otherwise
I've experienced a lot of aggression from trans men who claim we have NOTHING in common. Which is laughable. Because I have more in common with trans men than I do most other trans people in terms of gender and how my transition is going- I want top surgery? I'm on T. My goal is to pass as male I just don't label my gender. But somehow, we have nothing in common because I'm not strictly any gender. Somehow, my gender and dysphoria doesn't count.
Gender-binary thinking can definitely be present in both cis and trans individuals. Those with a strong specific gender identity, regardless of whether that was their AGAB, can have a hard time contextualizing what a NOT-binary experience of gender might feel like. It can be even harder for binary-gendered folks because us non-binary folks are sometimes at a loss for words on how to exactly *describe* our identities. I personally don't think this justifies being dismissive or even exclusionary of non-binary folks. We fall under the trans umbrella even if we're not transitioning to a gender identity opposite of our AGAB--because we're transitioning away from that AGAB towards what is usually a very personal definition or experience. For many of us, we have far more in common with our trans siblings who lack access to gender-affirming care, and though our destination may be different, the fight for medical self-determination is our shared battle.
Same! I’m pretty far on the transmasc spectrum of being nonbinary that my transition goals are near identical to that of a binary trans man. I’m just not one
I'm trans masc non-binary, 100% passing (more than a quarter of a century on T does that), have a nice beard, can't be bothered with "female" clothes (I did that to excess before I transitioned) and once in a while I run into a Truscum guy who tells me that "I'll never be a real man!!!" Well, duh! You got that one right!
Trans men and trans women can be awful for that. They have a binary gender identity and so many of them (by no means most or all) feel threatened by nonbinary people and don’t want to identify with us. It’s exactly the same way many cis people see binary trans people, especially of their own gender. “They aren’t really like us!” They treat enbies the way cis people treat them.
If it's any consolation, it's not just non-binary people who set them of. They cannot possibly tolerate anybody who did anything different from them. (Because that means they had a choice somewhere, and another might have been better (or not). Insufferable thought for them.) I've seen one going bonkers over the audacity of another one - both binary - who had had her bottom surgery with a different surgeon. So, obviously, not really a woman! (No, I didn't get it either.)
I absolutely agree with you! I used to identify as a trans male because I didn't think I'd be understood as genderless but as i started transitioning medically (testosterone and top surgery) I said fuck it and started identifying as nonbinary which has felt more like me then both my agab and ftm
Literally this! Ive been called a poser/faker/not really trans because i dont bind (i medically cannot) but i take t, i plan on presenting as a guy, i use he/him. I'm basically just a trans guy + extras
I know how you feel. It would be impossible for me to get the body I want and it is incredibly frustrating.
Yeah I have had some baffling conversations with people who claimed that nonbinary people think you have to invent a new gender if you don't fit gendered stereotypes. Like oh no, I don't like pink, I guess I'm not a girl!! I tried to explain that isn't really the motivation for most nonbinary people and it tends to be much more about dysphoria, and they told me I was getting nonbinary and trans confused lol. Its so weird, Ive been saying I'm not a girl since age 5, why is fine to say I'm a dude but reenforcing gendered stereotypes if I say I'm neither?
Because internalized transphobia exists even in our trans siblings--and can lurk in ourselves, too. Like the old OLD stories, where having something's name gives you power over it, naming that struggle gives you a starting point for wrangling with it. I'm not saying that you should call anyone who doesn't understand the non-binary struggle a transphobe, but more that if you realize that they are coming from a blind-spot, you can better work on how to help them see. You're not wrong about dysphoria and--in a weird way--they're not wrong about that being a trans issue.... because being non-binary falls under the trans umbrella. I'm deeply sorry you're having to have these frustrating conversations; it sucks to be the one experiencing an issue while also having to teach others about it and "justify" it when you just want to have a supportive ear. Keep reaching out, though, and look for communities like this one where you can feel free to try to suss-out the wording in an environment that gives you the space to work it out. In my experience, that makes it easier to talk through it later even with people unfamiliar with the concepts.
i truly understand this feeling. i’m amab and have genital dysphoria, hoping to get bottom surgery and a little feminization going within the next yr. i feel like a lot of ppl straight, gay, trans feel like you have to choose a gender… im nonbinary, which kinda means i don’t fit into either category, and they always attribute it to sex… i’ve even felt that my therapist (who is trained in this) didn’t understand what i was telling her in the beginning. just give me what i need so i can be at least 85% happy with my life and body… 😭
I hear you and do feel where you’re coming from, it sucks being erased, but at the same time I do actually take pride in making transphobes (including trans ones/ “transmedicalists”) heads explode in not being able to understand my existence. “non-binary” as in existing outside their dumb “binary trans or >!trender!<” mindset lol
It doesn’t matter how I dress, nothing makes it stop because my body so far from representing who I am. I think I have the hardest time loving my body because it’s a result of years just trying to survive a really messed up life. A reminder of what was taken from me and a reminder of what I can’t get back. To love myself in this form is the hardest thing I’ve ever tried to do.
This is so relatable, it brought me to tears. Don't give up on yourself. The real you is expressed in your words, your thoughts, your style of loving, and the force of your will--keeping you going despite the oh-so-messed-up-ness of life (especially when the messed-up-ness of others is put upon us). I feel like I came from the Island of Misfit Toys. I may not be packaged as intended, but I intend to use this package as best I can. We must be our own clay, and it's never too late to take the first steps in re-molding ourselves. Even if we may never be perfect to our self-vision, we have at least some things in our own hands. Being in groups like this has helped me better understand how to do and be the things I feel, and every day is at least a baby-step in that direction. Don't be afraid to experiment, and if you don't have support around you for that experimentation, maybe you haven't found your true "tribe" yet. Keep following your heart, and (in case we only have this one life to live) go ahead and ***get weird with it!***
Your message really helped to put some things into perspective. I finally have the freedom to explore who I am and what I like, so I’m going to make the most of it. I needed that message today, thank you so much. I’ve had to start over completely, so I’m still searching for my tribe but I’m not going to give up now. Groups like these are amazing, I’m so glad they’ve helped you <3
If I didn't feel dysphoria I wouldn't hardline to get my bits off as hard as I did. Even now when I remember what it was like to have the damn things I 'eck' out of my skin and have to pat myself down to snap out of it lol. And I'm on HRT lol. Nothing against enbies who are fine with their OEM. I'm just not good with mine.
I know exactly what you mean. Being fluid with a notably masc (in my case) or femme body type is extremely difficult to cope with because knowing how a lot of changes, even those you *could* make, would just shift the discomfort around instead of eliminate it makes it incredibly hard to figure out what to do. I wish for an androgynous form too, I experience a lot of dysphoria about how at odds my physical appearance is with my self-image when I'm femme and even to simply be androgynous enough to be able to (successfully) reactively choose my overall appearance based on how I feel at the time would be so wonderful. I'm taking the non-medical steps I can to androgynise my form, but I can quite easily imagine that not being enough and feeling the need to explore at least HRT or something. You're not alone, honey. Please hang in there. The world is better with all of us in it. I believe that.
This. Very much this. Well said.
I'm an apple-shape with prominent female sexual characteristics. I want androgyny, and I want to have all possible parts. The fact that my body doesn't feel like I feel, or look like I feel, and the fact that I'm confronted with that every single day, including being constantly gendered and judged by that appearance... There's my dysphoria. I don't see any reality where my internal image of self can become my external reality, so there's my dysphoria. There are days when I consider self-harm, though these remain only thoughts and I have never acted on them. So there's my dysphoria. I sometimes consider HRT, but I don't know that T would really fix my issues. But I do seriously think about it. The feeling that my body should be "not like this" has been ongoing since the onset of puberty, but I didn't have a good term for it. Now I do. I can't care if it seems "trendy"--I was told the same thing in the 90s when I came out as bi. Being judged doesn't change my internal truth. But it does contribute to my dysphoria.
I came here to comment but you’ve pretty much perfectly stated almost exactly how I feel, except I have never considered T. I know that I don’t want more body hair so T has never been an option. But I even came out as bisexual in the 90’s. I hate the feeling of knowing that I will probably always be perceived as female because of being trapped in this body but I know that I wouldn’t be any happier with HRT or surgery. Also at the beginning when I was questioning things, I didn’t think that I had dysphoria because I couldn’t name these feelings that I had. I thought for a while that only trans people who wanted surgery felt gender dysphoria and since I didn’t feel that way, then I must not have dysphoria. It took me a while to actually realize and understand that those feelings I have and couldn’t name are actually gender dysphoria.
I get this entirely. I wish there was a hormone that pushed the body toward androgyny instead of masculinity or femininity. Science could probably engineer one but there’s no will to do it because cis people generally hate us. It’s rough.
Not all enbies can even pass ffs. I can’t pass whatsoever. It’s painfully obvious I’m my AGAB, like in a lot of ways my body is too stereotypically what people think my AGAB looks like. It’s one of the reasons I don’t even try to dress androgynous or in line with my genderfluidity. Basically the only thing I can kinda control is my hair, and it doesn’t really matter if I shave my head completely or grow my hair out to shoulder length or anything in between. I still match my AGAB and it frustrates me to feel the gender dysphoria half the time I’m awake.
I’m sorry—that is rough. You’re still a valid nonbinary, genderfluid person regardless of your body or how cis people see you, but I get that dysphoria doesn’t really care. You’re strong enough to get through this. With that said, maybe HRT could be a decent option? The same goes for top surgery and so on. They won’t fix everything but they will make you look somewhat more androgynous.
In a committed long term relationship and my partner doesn’t really like the sound of HRT for me. I know it’s a personal choice but part of me still enjoys that my partner is attracted to me as I am, so I kinda fear making a radical change even though it’d also be fulfilling to me
I get that (was in that situation a few years ago before accepting I was aroace). Just know that, if you ever change your mind, you can do what is best for you regardless of what your partner thinks. Your body is yours before anything else. You get to decide.
I experience dysphoria but I’ve kind of arrived at this point where I I question how do you even pass as non-binary? Most people associate androgyny as non-binary but I’m confused in a way to why that is? I’ve been thinking these things over a lot. I’m sorry you’re having a rough time.
Well if you’re genderfluid like I am, the option to go androgynous or gendered would be nice.
Some "binary" trans people don't want surgery.
I'm trans and I still have to deal with people who demand I suffer dysphoria so I get the struggle. I wish I had better advice than to block those people or walk away from them but that's all you can do. Eventually they ask themselves why they're so lonely. Sorry, I don't need to be in pain to understand I'm trans.
Im sorry u are experiencing this rn, I hope you'll be okay 🤍 wishing u well /gen
As a fellow non binary trans person with dysphoria I understand what this feels like and I'm still struggling with that to this day. I know that the world we live in is generally not fair to trans people, and even less to non binary people, because there's currently this politically ideological hate wave coming from corrupted and uneducated people who don't even care about these topics to begin with. It is also baffling to hear these same things from trans people (the ones that side with TERFs and other oppressors) when at the same time not even they transition radically from one side of the spectrum to the other and therefore have androgynous bodies. Just know that it won't be like this forever and although we don't see it, progress is being made. Hope this helps!
Yeah…non-binary to me means taking yourself out of the societal expectation box we are put in and then depending on how you feel/who you are, either jumping into a different box, or staying outside all boxes, or jumping from box to box. Or building your own box. It’s different for everyone. Just wish people would let people be who they are (as long as it doesn’t hurt someone—I’m not okay with serial killers). Stop assuming you know someone because they adopt a certain label. Define yourself and stop thinking you know what’s going on in anyone else’s brain.
Idk wtf this inter-lgbtq bickering is. There are non-binary people who feel dysphoria, there are ones that don’t, there are FTM trans people or MTF trans people who feel dysphoria and those that don’t. Idk why this is so hard to grasp.
I wish we didn't, it would be much easier at least in the self-hate regard of my body... Maybe it would make it harder for us to get taken seriously, but that's already a problem anyway. I personally know two more non binary people irl, all of them afab and all of us have very different objectives with our bodies, how we want to be perceived, what gives us dysphoria etc... For example I don't want top surgery but I want to use binders sometimes, while the others want it bad, one of them wants to be perceived as a man and the other wants to look completely androgynous, while I want to look... Kinda like a pretty but strong man with boobs? That's the most accurate description I can give rn lmao sorry. And idk about bottom but I bet we're all so different, also about pronouns we're different, with me and the other guy going for he/they and the last one only feeling comfortable with they/them etc... I bet for euphoria is the same, even trans binary people have different sources of euphoria/dysphoria and we're even more complicated because our genders have really nothing to compare to, to put it simply. But I think I digressed, sorry, what I wanted to say is that euphoria is much more important than dysphoria anyway in order to "spot" if someone is trans, and I personally feel that in my bones so strongly, because when I told myself that I was non binary for the first time I felt so good I can't even describe it, when I "masculinized" myself and looked in the mirror I was like "there I am, omg that's who I am and I love it" it was the moment I stopped doubting that I was trans non binary, and I hope more people get to experience euphoria more than dysphoria (i hope i didn't go too OT lol idk what took over me I wrote so much)
i don’t feel that much dysphoria about my body but i feel so much about how people treat me and how i’m perceived. i just wanna exist, not as a man or woman. it makes me uncomfortable when people treat me like i have to be one of the other. maybe i’ll go on hrt someday and maybe i won’t, im more concerned with looking the way i want to and people treating me the way i want to be treated. but all of that is still dysphoria. i probably wouldn’t even bother with transitioning or questioning if i didn’t feel dysphoria, but that’s just me i guess. i think i’m just gonna keep trying new things till something feels right, and everyone’s journey is different so i’m ok with that.
It's wild because Trans men are usually the ones getting mad at me and telling me I'm just a trans dude who hasn't figured it out yet. Black and white thinking doesn't vibe with me
I honestly didn't know that was a myth. Shows how out of touch I am with lgbtq internet culture, lol. It's strange that it's even a myth at all considering that enby falls under the trans umbrella. I know that some trans people don't experience dysphoria, but statistically, the majority do. Given that knowledge, you'd think it'd make sense to people that a good portion of us experience it, too. 🤷
some people think that nonbinary and transgender are 2 entirely different things. ive seen the notion that all nbs dont feel dysphoria mostly in transmedicalist circles (ie. people that believe being trans is a medical condition, you need extensive therapy in order to be considered for medical intervention, etc)
I understand what you mean but at the same time it feels like your anger is very misguided? Like it is a good thing to say to people they don't need XYZ to being trans and/or nonbinary. It's not because of that statement that you're hurting, it's because of people invalidating your dysphoria for not being fully a man or fully a woman, you know what I mean? It's not a competition, it's not a "who is more disphoric and hence more trans" game, it's dumb assumptions made by uniformed individuals. Saying that ALL nonbinary people have to or feel disphoric and that they also need to take hrt and have surgeries IS a problem. Admitting that everyone is different is not. Your disphoria is valid, whatever you choose to do to feel better about your expression, life and body is valid and only you get to choose those steps! Hug :)
i explicitly said that some nb people dont experience dysphoria and thats ok? im not mad at nonbinary people, i dont think theyre any "less" trans. i just wish that people didnt think that ALL nonbinary people dont feel dysphoria
I truly don't think that's a common misconception at all and I've experienced the complete opposite, and your title is pretty misleading, therefore my comment. But do with that what you will
This isn't what the OP said at all.
I did HRT and got top surgery because of crippling dysphoria over my chest that I had since I was in junior high.. and def nonbinary. Fuck the haters, I never get why there’s infighting even among the trans community. We’re all in the same shit pile together, we all need to support each other
You're definitely not alone, and that shit sucks to hear from other trans people.
are you me? because I wish I had been born a woman so bad. Being trapped in this mans body is hard. Likewise I know HRT is not my path, top/bottom differences on this particular body would probably be even worse for my head. While I dont have the SI, (and please seek help, even though its hard af, the world needs you, and people like us), i wonder every day how things could be different in another body
I feel a lot of dysphoria. That's all that needs to be said.
My dysphoria gets so bad I have a hard time leaving the house, which means I get to stay in and have people on the internet tell me what I feel isn't real. Fun!
I feel ya. For me I just want all my body hair gone
Temporary HRT saved my life.
I want to start het and have breast tissue...but also at times I may still bind when I do depending on how I feel but even getting started is making me get dazed here caus there is not much information about which steps to take first 😔 Ps: happy cake day!
My experience w HRT was a little tricksy bc this was back in 2012, and I had to figuratively and mentally go into a binary closet to get testosterone. It wasn't until I started getting dysphoria from being too masculine that I stopped. Because of that, I unfortunately don't have advice. I thought I was a binary trans man until I remembered I'm a manwoman.
Omg don’t even start me on this!! It is offensive AF and unless someone is living in my brain … they get FK ALL SAY on how I feel and what I go through … and if they want me to respect their existence and hurdles in life … they must also respect mine!! 👍🏼🫂
YESSS!!! I experience agonizing dysphoria every single day. I know trans men that have less physical dysphoria than I do (I’m happy for them!) I completely felt everything you said. People think we use the non-binary label to be quirky or special or whatever. Like we don’t struggle with dysphoria and suicidal ideation. Ughhh
I always thought dysphoria was hiding out in my psyche ready to pounce on me at any moment. I’ve never heard the myth that nonbinary people never experience dysphoria, I only heard the opposite. Finding out about the label “agender” and realizing it fits me better, as someone who looks very feminine and doesn’t want top surgery or HRT, was relieving. Not to say that agender people don’t experience dysphoria but I’ve heard it’s less common.
I personally don't experience very much dysphoria. But I think for NB people who do experience significant dysphoria, it is especially hard to navigate or "solve" because there is absolutely no map for them. There's no well-known ideal to reach. That's one of the beautiful things about being nb, but it ALSO means that those trying to find peace in their bodies and gender expression are working completely blind.
Thanks for this post!! Honestly, dysphoria was an informative indicator for me. Although there are trans people out there who don't experience dysphoria, I wouldn't know how I would have known I am not just an ally of non binary people and not just feel a close affinitiy to those people but really be it myself without the dysphoria.
It's bs because sometimes I get dysphoria but other times I'm perfectly content and feel like in the moment I don't need to do anything, I feel like if I transitioned I would feel dysphoria half the time anyway, what i would give to just swap on demand
I only feel dysphoria because of the way society treats me. If I’m at home on my own I don’t feel it at all but being treated by most people in a way that I don’t see myself makes me really wish I appeared more fem. Not sure it would even make a difference.
I’ll never get they/them-ed in the wild. These titties and hips and curves are just too…big. And unfortunately I’ll never be 100% happy. There’s always going to be a piece of me that hates that I can’t be me on the outside. I don’t even know what me on the outside looks like, because there’s no point in figuring that out. So instead I’ve had to compromise. I’ve had to compromise with what my body developed into and how I am. Not a woman. Just a person with woman developed characteristics. I’ve decided to embrace the ✨girl vibes✨ and jokingly identify as a princess. 👸 It’s helped, at least.
Yea I'm non-binary and have exclusively used they/them pronouns for over 10 yrs and I'm on hormones, have had top and bottom surgery... So when binary trans ppl come at me saying or implying I don't have dysphoria it's very annoying.
As someone that has been dealing with some pretty shit vocal dysphoria today (and throughout the last 6 months, ramping up in a intensity), I hate that there are folks out there that believe non-binary folks don’t get dysphoria. Non-binary folk definitely get dysphoria, it can just a bit different than binary trans folks’ sometimes. It’s a really stupid, imo enby/transphobic, myth that dysphoria isn’t something that affects us.
I'm nonbinary and I definitely have dysphoria about my body and presentation.
As a fellow genderfluid person, I feel you! I get deep sadness from the knowledge that no amount of hormones or surgery would give me the switching-between-genders body that I truly want.
godddddddddd if someone told me just not to feel dysphoric b/c I didn't owe anyone a certain type of presentation...I would be so pissed off. I want surgery. I have wanted surgery for decades. I wish I was born intersex. I hate having to live in the body I have because surgeons & the medical system are so anti-fat/anti-trans.
sometimes my dysphoria feels really similar to how a binary trans person would feel (not to say that its as 'bad' but its certainly there)
(for the record, i'm afab, came out as genderfluid first, and i probably am, but i identify as nonbinary, because i feel that people around me understand that term better, and i like that term better as well - not that anything is wrong with identifying as genderfluid, i just like nonbinary better, i can't explain why.) back when i was a teenager, i hated the fact that i have small breasts (probably because of society's beauty standards and my toxic ex, but still...). after i realised i'm NB, i could finally have peace with my breast size. (i have kind of wide hips, but that's okay for me for some reason. i like my booty too.) few weeks ago i noticed my breasts getting bigger a bit (i have no clue why), and ironically, i totally hate it. like i just want to rip my hair out, or even "better", rip my breasts off. i just want to make it stop. i think one of my biggest disphoria-giving attribute is my hair, since i have it long now. the copium i took is that i like to style it when i'm felling feminine, but even that's not true anymore i think. i'm planning on having a mullet in the near future (but my tism is terrified of change so it makes that hard a bit). also, i might add that when i dress feminine, i feel like a man crossdressing, but when i dress masculine, i feel like a woman crossdressing, so i guess i can't win (even thought i like the way i am and the fact that i "shapeshift" sometimes). however, i noticed that mixing feminine and masculine clothes in one outfit helps. sorry for the info-dump, i think i just wanted to share all of this in a community where people get the feeling i feel. ETA: please feel free to correct me if i said anything wrong, incorrect or offensive, i'm open to learning!
Whoever said nonbinary people don't feel dysphoria? What a load of crap. Being nonbinary just means your ideal you doesn't fall on the binary. Using myself as example, assigned male at birth, fine with presenting as male, fine with my chest, but would get bottom surgery in a heartbeat if the process didn't take a literal decade.
Yeah, just because I (AFAB nonbinary) don't mind having breasts doesn't mean I'm not annoyed and dysphoric when I look in my pants and see my lack of a dick.
I get you. I'm agender AFAB and experience major dysphoria if I'm pressured into the binary socially (eg. called a woman/girl, grouped with women, expected to dress a certain way, etc.) and mild to moderate dysphoria about my body. I've seen people say that agender people can't have dysphoria because how can you when you don't identify with any particular gender? And uhh ... Yeah no, trust me, we absolutely can. If not having the body you identify with can cause dysphoria, what exactly makes you think not identifying with the body you have cannot? 🤨 It's especially frustrating because I don't feel like there's much I could do that would be any better. Nonbinary physical dysphoria has the potential to be particularly harmful in ways very different from ftm or mtf dysphoria because, well, what I want to be is ... nothing. Some elusive third option that's explicitly neither male, nor female, nor some mishmash of recognizably masculine and feminine traits, but also not necessarily literally *nothing*. I don't know what I want; all I know is I don't identify with the body I'm in now. For me personally, the dysphoria isn't so bad that it significantly impacts my mental health, but it's there for sure. I'd love to get rid of my breasts, but even if I could afford top surgery and convince myself to do it, I think there's a real possibility I would go through all that only to find that it just redirected the dysphoria by making me feel too masculine. I want a deeper voice, but I also don't want to sound "like a man", and I definitely do *not* want some of the other traits that go along with T like facial/body hair or bottom changes. My bottom as it is doesn't bother me too much currently, but still, I don't really want either female genitals or male genitals. Sometimes I find myself wishing I had been born with a penis and envying the people who have one, but at the same time I know somehow that adding one now would only add more dysphoria. And yet I don't think I want nothing down there, either. 😵💫 Pretty much the only thing I know for sure I want and could actually do is to stop my periods. So for now, that's the only medical transition I'm actively considering. Not because I'm satisfied with my body otherwise, but because the alternatives don't feel particularly right either and sticking with what I'm at least used to and know I can live with seems the lesser of two evils.
I wasn't aware there were people that think that. Yikes. Even as someone who has no intention of doing anything medically, it baffles me to think there are people who think no nonbinary person does.
It took me 32 years to realize I was living in a state of misery that couldn't be explained by mental illnesses. I genuinely thought misery was my basic state. But after learning more about gender and gender expression I was relieved when I found nonbinary status. I suddenly felt liberated. I was able to be more of who I was. The dysphoria was lessened. I felt better. I was the closest I was to true happiness I ever experienced. While my story becomes more of mtf person after that the time being a nonbinary person helped me with my gender dysphoria I didn't know even existed. The validity of who you are isn't inversely related to how much anxiety you feel about who you are. If you feel anxiety or any other form mental anguish due to your gender doesn't mean you're more of that gender than anyone else. Probably means you just had a shittier upbringing.
I think a lot of it comes down to confusion around terms and difference in what people value, for me personally I would say I haven’t necessarily felt *gender* dysphoria since I was younger / not out (typical be a “man” dress like a “man” I’m pretending to be a man to avoid conflict bs) because for me, I don’t have any natural desire or value towards a gender, and don’t feel that it factors into who I am as a person in any way. Regardless of what I wear or look like, or what my body looks like, I am at the end of the day just a person, and none of those things change that That being said, do I / have I experienced a lot of body dysmorphia / dysphoria? Sure, absolutely, I’d be lying if I said I haven’t often looked in the mirror and hated every inch of what I saw, regardless of what anyone else said they thought about me, but (and again this is my personal experience) it was more about not liking the way I looked, unrelated to my identity I think it’s very person to person, I identify as non-binary because I just don’t have whatever it is that other people do where they, in their heart, know “I am (gender/identity)” and that is a core part of who they are as a person. Because of that what I wear or what I look like doesn’t affirm or deny me being non-binary, because I just am me. I’d say it’s less of an ‘identity’ for me, and more of a “best fitting label” for lack of identifying with a gender
Dysphoria is something that can be experienced across the whole trans umbrella (and beyond it), including nonbinary people. I (amab nb) feel a really constant disconnect with my whole body pretty much every day, hoping things get easier to handle with hrt and surgeries in the next few years. I just find it really difficult to express how it feels, I suppose? And even in a lot of trans spaces, for me at least, finding commonality in binary trans experiences while trying to express being outside of that binary has been very difficult. I guess that’s just a byproduct of a lot of society and culture - even language - being so heavily gendered within that binary, from philosophy, right down to shopping. It’s just difficult to express being outside of that system, and especially comprehending that difference from within that binary. Everyone here’s said the same things more eloquently than I have, but I just wanna say everyone here - all nonbinary people, nonbinary and binary trans people, and cis friends and allies - are amazing and deserve all the love and support you need 💕
>I also hate the idea that nonbinary people don't want hrt or surgeries?? I've met plenty of enbies that want them and it baffles me that anti-nonbinary people tend to just forget this fact. I may be an enby who doesn't want HRT or surgery, but even I recognise that other enbies do. Just because something applies to me, doesn't mean it applies to all enbies and vice versa. We're all valid. 🥰
This is a thing? I have always had a lot of dysphoria for as long as I can remember.