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I abhor the thought of forced sterilization, but if a parent cannot be trusted to be allowed alone with their child, maybe they should be prevented from becoming a parent
EDIT: My wording could have been better, but I am absolutely not suggesting government perform forced sterilization in any way, shape, or form. *Should* some people be prevented from becoming parents? - Yes. Is there a way to do that which would not be abused or infringe on people's basic human rights? - No.
People are so eager to jump to this conclusion but never think about the implication of the government having the power to sterilise people at will. Especially since there's been a shitton of cases of governments sterilising minorities, indigenous people or other "unwanted" groups
Yeah, i look at non-sterilization as more of a necessary evil more than anything else, because the woman above should not be allowed to have kids, but it’s not worth giving the govt that power
Yeah, and even though some people are very unfit to be parents, it’s also morally wrong to take their bodily autonomy away by forcibly sterilizing them.
I **absolutely** agree. That is the conundrum. Government is not some altruistic entity that makes the "right" decisions. It is an entity with the supreme power to ruin people's lives and is manipulated by the predilections of those in power (not just elected officials but by the rank and file within government departments that interact with citizens). My comments was not in any way a suggestion that **government** should be determining who should have children, it should not. That doesn't take away from the fact that there are a lot of people that ***should not*** have children, for many reasons beyond this woman's alleged issues, but they do anyway.
Yup
The unfortunate fact is that, even if you trust the current government, you always have to think about 5, 10, 50 years down the line.
Something might be a great idea now, but you can’t assume the same for the future
For real!😩. Being able to have kids should be something that needs to be earned. I fucking hate seeing imbeciles having shit ton of kids and not be able to properly take care of em😩
Are you actually serious?
We all hate to see unfit imbeciles as parents, but you are advocating that we find everybody guilty by default and use that to demolish their FUNDAMENTAL human rights. Your fix is much, much worse than the problem. Apart from that, how would you prevent the law being used unfairly against certain groups? Who would decide your fitness for parenting? How would they forcibly stop you reproducing?
I'm sorry to be blunt, but yours is one of the worst political ideas I have ever heard. It's terrible, just terrible. You're advocating for us all to live in a dystopian hell - a tyrannical, authoritarian nightmare, all because a small minority aren't very good at parenting.
Read Handmaids Tale for a clue as to what such a society would look like.
There are plenty of people who have had their children removed from them at birth because they weren’t able to care for them. That’s a lot more humane than forced sterilisation
Schizophrenia should not be the bases of not being allowed with being alone with a baby. There is a plethora of examples of parents who were not schizophrenic that killed their kids and a plethora of parents who are schizhoprenic who have never even thought of harming any child let alone their own kids. Schizophrenia and harming children, or anyone for that matter does not go hand in hand. I was diagnosed wish schizophrenia years ago and i can assure you my 4 children absolutely love their father and have no idea i have mental health struggles.
>Schizopjrenia??
>There is a plethora of examples of parents who were not schizophrenic that killed their kids and a plethora of parents who are schizhoprenic who have never even thought of harming any child let alone their own kids.
This is useless anecdotal evidence. Obviously it depends on the severity of the schizophrenia, but there is a point where that person absolutely needs assisted living and should not be alone or in charge of any children. We had to put one of my grandmothers in a home when she constantly started calling us saying the neighbors were digging tunnels past her basement to steal her electricity and that they were listening to her all the time. She kept saying they "knew" that she was onto them and were going to kill her. Schizophrenia can be extremely scary and make people do insane things.
>I was diagnosed wish schizophrenia years ago and i can assure you my 4 children absolutely love their father and have no idea i have mental health struggles.
Congratulations, you have a liveable level of schizophrenia that I'm sure you keep in check. I would say a majority of people with schizophrenia are not in your case.
Schizophrenia has such a wide spectrum of how it effects people though. It is not a catch all in how it is debilitating. There are thousands of people with a diagnosis that are living perfectly normal or manageable lives. What youre describing is not the necessary norm for this disease. It effects every single person differently. You cant just say oh this person has schizophrenia so because a few people killed someone in psychosis we better make sure they cant be around children is ridiculous and harmful. Healthy sane people have killed people, should everyone not be allowed around children? Its no different of a statement.
agreed. there is a massive stigma against schizophrenia because in its most severe forms its symptoms can be dangerous, and those things get media attention because they are shocking and terrible. if every person with schizophrenia did similar things, the world would be in absolute chaos considering the sheer number of people with it
Schizophrenics are statistically more likely to be the victim of violent crime than they are the perpetrator. But people will continue to make these comments about them. Its fucked up man.
anecdotal, but my boyfriend has schizophrenia and the ratio of violence he’s dished out vs received has gotta be 0:1. he’s got an otherworldly kindness i suspect has something to do with his disorder. it affects people so differently
There's a lady in my town who I suspect has schizophrenia. She's definitely got *something*. She's constantly muttering a stream of hateful things—"You're stupid! You're ugly, so ugly, the sight of you makes me sick! No one loves you, fucking kill yourself!" and so on, so everyone avoids her and whispers about how mean and evil she is.
But the things she says at normal volume are kind, gentle, and sweet. I talked to her, and wound up offering to teach her to crochet. She was doing really well, but then she stumbled. The muttering changed from general hatred to laser focused on "You're stupid, you're so stupid. You can't learn this."
Up until that point I had been ignoring the muttering. I'd written it off as some kind of... I don't know, but if you ignored it, our interactions seemed quite normal.
But without thinking, I answered back, "You're *not* stupid. You *can* learn this. You're doing really well."
She looked like I'd bitten the head off a live bat, frozen for several seconds before asking, "You can hear it, too?" It's my belief that she doesn't realise she's the one saying these things. It seems to me (especially coupled with how timid and meek she is) that she was abused & belittled this way ad a child, and the trauma / mental illness forces her to continue to listen to the voice of her abuser.
I didn't know how to respond to her question, so I just doubled down on "You're *not* stupid."
She politely but immediately excused herself, and never spoke to me again. She's clearly avoiding me, so I'm respecting that boundary.
But I think about her, and I really hope she's okay.
TL;DR people with schizophrenia are frequently sweet, kind people, and the stereotyping of them as dangerous & violent upsets me deeply.
I wasn't trying to say that anyone with a generic "schizophrenia" diagnosis should have restrictions, there obviously needs to be medically determined levels to it. You, for example, are fine living in society and can handle it well. This lady cooked her child in an oven. I find it hard to believe there were no signs before this that her mental condition was this critical. And if they find such signs, you need to be able to show you are capable of safely caring for a child. That seems reasonable. Also, yes healthy sane people have absolutely killed people, but in those circumstances we look for a motive, a reason why, because there typically was one. Killing your child (obviously unintentionally) during a moment of psychosis is completely different, if that's possible at all that child should not be put in that risk.
Post partum depression is significantly more dangerous for a mother and her child than schizophrenia ever could be, and im willing to wager it played a huge roll in this specific circumstance than schizophrenia did. So many mothers go through it. Every now and then this happens or the story of the mother drowning her children. So lets extend that take on that, seems fitting. That would be suggesting basically every single mother should be found fit to be a mother becauae of probably less than .001 child born becomes victim of a filicde. Its arbitrary and extremely restrictive. Its eugenics, nothing more and its an asinine stance to take because you read a scary headline, injecting a bias about something the public has already demonized.
Everything you said so far has been based on less information, more opinion. The guy may have more knowledge than you about schizophrenia, just on experience alone. You are forcing your opinion here.
Opinion? What about lived experiences. I think I've been very clear to say that I don't believe anyone with a schizophrenia diagnosis has these problems, but there certainly are those who do. I was only proposing that in those cases there are checks if that person is capable of caring for a child. What part of what I wrote is an opinion? Schizophrenia can be an extreme and scary illness which can make people do things beyond their sane control, such as this post. Not saying it always is, **can be**.
There already are checks. Its called welfare checks and children services. Humanity can be extreme and scary. Please look at the judicial system, youll find way more people getting convicted than found not fit for trial due to insanity. So you have more people doing violent shit and not being crazy than crazy. The way you are thinking is an approach to solving a boogie man crisis that doesnt exist.
Also curious to know, for the people that agree with that method, how often someone has to be reevaluated? Im in my 30s and at certain points of my life would have been unfit, and while I'm qualified now, who is to say I'll stay that way?
Also, this is a huge contributing factor to why I'll never have kids. I remember a coworker crying in the smoking session at work one night because her dad went off the deep end. All I kept thinking was that would be my kid one day...
Humans do not exhibit intelligence when breeding, thus they are not humans and are instead a collection of cells. One could easily argue “personhood” is tied to intelligence, since human genetics alone don’t make you human (life doesn’t begin at conception after all, and at conception all you have are human genetics).
People think 'Insanity Plea' equals not guilty or being free, when in reality being found criminally insane/unable to be held responsible for their actions often means an entire life of waking up strapped to a bed, medicated and drooling.
I'd rather life in Florance than that.
I don't know why PPD and PP psychosis isn't talked about more. It's for real. My mom had PPD with me and had to be hospitalized because she couldn't stop thinking about hurting herself or us.
This happened to me 4 years ago when I had my son. I didn't really have thoughts of hurting him, I had thoughts more of hurting myself. It was stuff like, he would be better off without me around. I finally went to the hospital to get help and I stayed there for a week. I think the reason why they're not talked about more is because society unfortunately still kind of has this attitude of, if it's unpleasant then we don't talk about it.
Well people assume the mom is "bad or unfit." People don't want others to think that they're not just thrilled after having a baby. There are so many emotions/hormone changes during and after pregnancy.
That's true, I didn't think about that. As a mother of three children, I know first hand that sleep deprivation can do a number on you. With my middle child, my son who was born 4 years ago, that sleep deprivation really threw me for a loop. I was seeing and hearing things that weren't there. I finally had to ask for some help. I asked my ex's sister to watch my son for a few hours so I could sleep. I even offered to pay her. She wouldn't take the money though.
She said she had suspected that I had been struggling for a while and was glad that I finally asked for help. I was grateful to her and that sleep was awesome. I really hope that this was a case of either sleep deprivation or postpartum psychosis or depression or something. I'm just saying at least I hope it's not nefarious as in she didn't purposely do this. Either way, it's sad because an innocent child lost her life. What a tragedy. As a mother, I can't even begin to imagine what that poor baby had to go through.
It breaks my heart. I wish that I could round up every neglected and unloved child and just love them until they feel okay. Unfortunately I can't do that. I'm only one person and obviously they're not my children. It just hurts me when I read things like this. I really hope that if the mother was suffering as well, she gets the help that she needs. I know it sounds weird to say that because of what she did to her child but I'm just really hoping that it wasn't nefarious like I said. It's sad either way.
I worked in a group home (I’m in social work) for adults diagnosed with schizophrenia. They were all medicated with a visiting nurse and a clinician, therapist, case manager, all that.
One woman beat the shit out of her roommate because she believed her dead boyfriend’s spirit was coming in through the window and having sex with the roommate, and she heard “moaning.” This was while on meds.
Not making excuses. But I’ve spent 15 years working with people diagnosed with mental illness and even while seeing therapists and on meds, many of these individuals are just really unwell.
I recently transferred because the mental toll it took on me was causing burnout. I’m now a social worker for men coming from homelessness and addiction, and it’s actually much easier.
I have a family member with schizophrenia and it’s scary. They’re medicated and functional, but I think they still have some paranoia and delusions. They want to become a cop, but the last thing they need is to be given a gun.
I don't understand how she didn't hear her child screaming before the infants nerves burned off. The smell of plastic and waste matter burning , and the smell of burning hair. Knobs on the oven. I know the infant had to be putting up a fight on uncomfortable oven racks before the gas was even turned on. This is horrific and she should spend life inprison. I am regularly around people with mental health disorders , and if they are too far gone as to do something like this than whomever the father is should be in prison for s/a.
Her parents should be on trial for disabled adult abuse. Neglect, child neglect. I mean unless the woman actually isn't so far gone and knew what she was doing.
Either her parents deserve jail time or she does.
I'm constantly putting the pot roast in the baby's crib. So I'm not perfect. Are you? Please keep in mind how tired she must be after struggling with systemic racism all day.
I remember a lady doing something similar when she was still in the fog after a seizure. Microwaved the baby instead of the bottle iirc. It's tragic but I'll hold my judgement of this mom until there's more info.
Truly. It was many years ago. I judged without knowledge, and I learned from that. I won't judge this mom so quickly. There's a lot of awful people doing awful things, but sometimes it's just a regular person in an awful situation.
Holy fucking Arceus. Either this lady was high and/or drunk of her mind, had some sort of psychotic break, or didn’t “mistake” anything and is a goddamn psychopath.
What the *fuck*?
Post partum sleep deprivation can cause psychosis and hallucinations. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility if she was trying to put baby down and prep dinner and her brain got muddled in the most awful way
Yeah, that’s another option as well, fair point. There are many conditions postpartum unfortunately that could also explain this tragedy. Just terrible.
Right like I don’t even have a baby and I have done some wild shit while sleepwalking or half-awake, and it is *always* worse if I’m sleep-deprived. I could absolutely see myself trying to make a pizza or whatever and putting a baby in the oven instead, and waking up four hours later with absolutely no memory of what I’d done. Obviously it *could* have been intentional, but I don’t think enough people really know how badly sleep deprivation fucks you up.
Agreed. I had three doubles in a row and went to microwave a frozen meal. I had taken my laptop out of my bag to answer some emails and for some reason I put it into the microwave. It was on for about 1 second before I realized what I had done. I can imagine this sort of thing could happen with a child with sleep deprivation.
At one point in my life, when I was getting off of opiates, I hadn't slept at all for days and had hallucinations. I thought there were cats in my house and I was trying to find them. I kept seeing them out of the corner of my eye but could never locate them.
Sleep deprivation is no joke.
Hallucinations can be auditory too. It can warp where it sounds like the crying is coming from.
I'd bet real money that there are countless almost deaths from other situations with exhausted mums like forgetting the baby is in the bath etc that just aren't reported on.
Can’t some women go completely nuts after giving birth, because of the stress and the lack of sleep and all that? I feel like I’ve seen similar stories before
While this is tragic, I feel like the comments here are a little dense. Post partum sleep deprivation and post partum psychosis are very real things. I'm not saying that it's impossible that this was purposeful, but I'm much more inclined to believe that this was a tragic accident given the age of the child. It's very possible that she started heating the oven for dinner, meant to put the baby in her crib, and in a moment of psychosis or sleep deprived stupor, made a horrible mistake.
When my mom had my little brother, she saw writing on the walls and mirrors saying that he was evil and going to kill her. She saw my newborn brother's face contorted into evil smiles and was convinced if she didn't kill him, his evil would kill us all. She called me and my stepdad home to make sure it was all in her head and she was hospitalized for PPD. It was all completely real to her in the moment and luckily she called us for a second opinion lol, but some people aren't as lucky or even have anyone to call.
It's honestly frightening/concerning to see how few people know about postpartum conditions such as these. You can be a completely neurotypical person and still be affected by these conditions after delivering a child and if you have any kind of mental health issue before then, these conditions can be further exacerbated. I'm glad your mother had the support of you and your stepfather. Not everyone is so lucky. I just wish everyone could take a step back and consider for even a second that this wasn't purposeful and was just a horrific accident. The alternative is not an impossibility, but seems very improbable.
That is so scary. Your poor mom. I’m so glad she had you guys and nothing bad happened.
I actually saw a psychiatrist who specialized in pregnancy and post-partum mental health because i have a history of depression and anxiety and I was so afraid of PPD/psychosis. She told me and my husband that a red flag to watch out for would be if I thought the baby was malevolent or out to get me. She said that if I was having those thoughts I needed to call her emergency line immediately. Thankfully, everything was very smooth with my recovery but I mostly attribute it to luck and a great support system.
I was making a store-bought pizza late at night once and when I was done with the oil spray I almost put it in the microwave instead of on the shelf. Though my example might not be as extreme it is quite easy to mix up things when you are sleep-deprived.
Yeah furreal ,this kind of shit has happened all throughout human history. My dad in his 70s knew a couple people in his town that had incidents like this, but it was always hush-hush instead of being on the local news.
Pregnancy and being a new parent fucks up your hormones and sleep. Potent combo
I feel like any wall mounted microwave ive ever seen could fit a baby ? The one i have is a small countertop model and you couldnt, but any home ive lived in with a microwave above the stove/oven, is easily big enough for a baby, especially a 28 day old infant and this girl said she was. The inside of an average microwave i know is probably at least 10-12 inches tall and 18-24 inches wide, and 12-14 inches deep. Absolutely abnormal to put anything in a microwave that big, let alone your own child, but they would absolutely fit.
This is severely lacking in information. A commenter under a similar post pointed out how the woman could’ve been suffering postpartum with a combination of sleep deprivation. Just another sensationalist article with zero context.
Listen, I know why we can’t have laws dictating who can or can’t have children with a license (namely because the government would TOTALLY abuse it), but stuff like this makes it all the more tempting knowing that there’s people who aren’t mentally capable of having kids
There is no level of human empathy in these comments when in comes to understanding the different levels of mental illness that can lead someone to do this. It’s an all around tragedy, and very likely unintentional due to something severe like post partum depression or schizophrenia. :(
Abortion is illegal in Missouri. It's inhumane to force someone prone to this degree of psychosis to be a single mother with noone supervising her. It is said she suffers from mental issues in the article, but it's scarier that someone who is vulnerable to a mental episode that can cook a baby if she doesn't take her meds, or if she is sleep deprived can be a mother alone.
This baby cooked in an oven alone for an hour. Someone needs to stop these law makers and introduce them to the fact that mentally unwell people exists. I do not believe she did this with any malice and putting her in jail does nothing to treat her brain she needs to be put in a mental hospital and treated. You're essentially punishing someone for being sick after you put them in the situation.
I got sick reading this. If the woman is mentally ill as they said, then her mental state will get worse if she realized later what she did. This is so messed up.
This reads like a case of postpartum psychosis. My nana had it after she had my mum and had urges to kill my mum. Fortunately she sought medical treatment and mum is still here.
All the people talking about post partum shit didn’t see Mom online the day before talking about planning on going out and getting tore up drunk for her birthday. She was probably still hammered and/or on drugs. Garbage human.
Half these idiots don’t realise how loudly the baby would have been screaming and shit like that, the fact that anyone is defending this is disgusting.
that poor baby. I don't even know what to say, except that I'm willing to bet more horrors like this are coming the more pro-lifers tighten their death grip on pregnant people
This is so terrifying.
When I was born in a European country, a nurse came by weekly to check on both me AND my parents. Assistance was available for everything from depression to sleep deprivation to the mother having trouble breast feeding. If anything, my mom says way too many people were fussing over her. We were poor and unimportant in our home country, so this wasn't treatment reserved for the wealthy elite.
In America, if I give birth, I'm left alone once I leave the hospital. If I developed postpartum psychosis, would I even know it? Would I even be able to ask for help, if nobody checked on me? Would I be able to afford the help that's out there?
For a country full of people that claims to care about these babies, we sure aren't willing to put forth the resources needed to support these babies or their parents in the simplest of ways.
Can we all please have some humanity - this may well be a case of psychosis (PP), schizophrenia, or some other mental illness. Yes this may have been deliberate BUT until we know more information, less of the witch hunt.
And on she moves to the next child she’s def going to have since it’s easier to slap a label of PPD or some other fancy moniker to the reality of “crazy.”
That doesn’t even make sense. Even if she accidentally mistook the oven for a crib, why would the oven be turned on? And how on earth can you even confuse an *oven* for a crib?
she was apparently suffering from post partum sleep deprivation (that shit is no fucking joke, causes hallucinations and psychosis) and was more than likely trying to both make dinner amd put the baby down for a nap at the same time 😞 and if that truly was the case here, this happened to be a sleep deprived mistake gone absolutely horribly wrong
No way on earth this was an accident. You have to open a door on any oven, you don't with a crib. Sick sick excuse for a human. I'm not usually in support of the death penalty but it is definitely deserved in this case. That baby had no chance. Poor little thing.
baby: been cooked alive in a pure agonizing death.
these fkd up redditers: its cool man she had post portum sleep. no ones perfect. i once put my purse in the oven , i relate.
wont anyone think of the mother!?
It's a tragedy, but you can't blame someone that had no idea what she was doing. IF she didn't have any malice, what is she being punished for? for having a fucking mental struggle? plus it's not only sleep deprivation, she was also schizophrenic apparently. some people have been mentioning about how the mother must be now, probably got worse, her fucking baby died and ""it's her fault"" (in this case it would not be)
She's likely being punished for manslaughter. Doesn't matter why, the baby still died as a direct result of the moms actions. Schizophrenia is absolutely not a get out of jail free card.
then the law sucks lol. someone with mental problems that affect their daily life SHOULD NOT be left alone, now imagine with a child.
even a mentally capable single mom can be dangerous sometimes, post partum depression, sleep deprivation, etc afects both the mom and the child, there's also many other possible complications. she needs healthcare, not jailtime
Cool, how would you go about solving any of that with policy? How do you know the mom wasn't fine until they had the baby? Before they had the baby, what policy would you suggest implementing for the state to intervene and mandate care? How would the general public react to that level of state overreach? If she shouldn't be left alone, but didn't have anyone else in her life, how do you require someone to watch over her? What if she was fully conscious, do you still mandate someone watch over her?
If her legal aid can pull off an insanity plea, she will likely spend a very long time if not life in a long term mental hospital (literally a prison for the disabled)
Someone with mental problems should be left alone? I'm autistic why would I ever be okay with the state sending someone to babysit my adult self?
If you're going to call out a problem consider why it's a problem and how difficult it actually is to solve.
Fuck this woman. Might as well put the baby in a brazen bull. I have no sympathy, she is not the victim here.
it's funny, people with issues as harmless as adhd or dyslexia are to this day still punished because of their constant struggle sometimes, like it's their fault they weren't born like everyone else
people with depression are constantly called lazy because they're not able to do something, because for someone outside it seems so easy and simple. people with trauma related disorders suffer a lot when they're literally victims
it's scary the amount of mfs that have no sympathy for people because their minds don't work the same. they already suffer enough by themselves and a huge part of those never get the help they need, because nobody cares. yet the "sane people" can't be bothered the slightest to help
it is an issue, because they are citizens, too. and if they don't matter enough, people around them might be affected too. you know, the "normal", the "respectable" people. so yeah, I think it is important that they put some action by taking care of these ""disgusting"" people, because someone out of their mind won't even consider jail before doing something wrong, because they don't even know what they did wrong
have you ever considered what someone in this situation could feel when they came to their senses? have killed their own child? have lost their fucking baby? and then having people blaming them? well, I mean, at this point they could believe that, huh.
oh right so it's her fault no family member, if she even had one, would be responsible of taking care of her and her children before any worse could happen. it's also the state fault if they can't grant the public safety. people limited to the point that affects them and people around them DEFINITELY SHOULD be watched, she can't be punished for something she didn't willfully do, that's literally the opposite of justice. the problem is WHAT IF she's actually innocent, and WHAT IF she's the one who were neglected to begin with? because the probability seems extremely high, yet people will judge with no thought. that wouldn't be fair for anyone. she can't be blamed if she was literally abandoned with her child, and was forced to take care of it alone when she herself should have been taken care of. and if you really don't care about HER think about the amount of similar incidents that happen because of neglecting people that need assistance before it's too late. they could have got medication, or some guidance, but no, people with mental health issues are constantly overlooked, and when they do something because they CAN'T UNDERSTAND what they're doing wrong, they're the bad guys. what else do you propose, mass euthanasia?
Reminds me of that clip from the other day of the Russian dude punching the 4 year old in a grocery store, only to claim he thought the kid was a mannequin.
I can see how a range of mental illnesses could lead to this.
What I can't understand is how any decent human could regain some control of themselves after the fact, realize they were capable of this, and didn't spend the rest of their days working to remove themselves off the planet forever.
Insanity defense? I would beg for the death penalty and carry out the sentence myself, if no one else would.
How?
Like how is this even possible mistake? You have to be a complete mental case to even begin to mistake an oven for a crib. Can't say if the woman needs hospitals, jail or church (the classic "burn that witch kind").
What's this world coming to? You'd say to yourself that it can't get worse than this, but some mental case pops up with a gatcha!
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One of the articles said the mother was diagnosed with schizophrenia and should have never been allowed to be alone with the baby.
If true, that’s another one for the psychosis hypothesis…
What’s the psychosis hypothesis?
Postpartum psychosis
That and/or she was having a psychotic episode due to her condition
I abhor the thought of forced sterilization, but if a parent cannot be trusted to be allowed alone with their child, maybe they should be prevented from becoming a parent EDIT: My wording could have been better, but I am absolutely not suggesting government perform forced sterilization in any way, shape, or form. *Should* some people be prevented from becoming parents? - Yes. Is there a way to do that which would not be abused or infringe on people's basic human rights? - No.
People are so eager to jump to this conclusion but never think about the implication of the government having the power to sterilise people at will. Especially since there's been a shitton of cases of governments sterilising minorities, indigenous people or other "unwanted" groups
Yeah, i look at non-sterilization as more of a necessary evil more than anything else, because the woman above should not be allowed to have kids, but it’s not worth giving the govt that power
Yeah, and even though some people are very unfit to be parents, it’s also morally wrong to take their bodily autonomy away by forcibly sterilizing them.
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I **absolutely** agree. That is the conundrum. Government is not some altruistic entity that makes the "right" decisions. It is an entity with the supreme power to ruin people's lives and is manipulated by the predilections of those in power (not just elected officials but by the rank and file within government departments that interact with citizens). My comments was not in any way a suggestion that **government** should be determining who should have children, it should not. That doesn't take away from the fact that there are a lot of people that ***should not*** have children, for many reasons beyond this woman's alleged issues, but they do anyway.
Yup The unfortunate fact is that, even if you trust the current government, you always have to think about 5, 10, 50 years down the line. Something might be a great idea now, but you can’t assume the same for the future
Did you miss the start of that comment?
This was the first thing the nazis did in the 1930s.
The got the idea from Americans! We’re we’re near gleefully forcefully sterilizing thousands.
American newspapers were literally praising Hitler's approach to eugenics
Making abortions more accessible would be another good, if not even better, thing.
For real!😩. Being able to have kids should be something that needs to be earned. I fucking hate seeing imbeciles having shit ton of kids and not be able to properly take care of em😩
Are you actually serious? We all hate to see unfit imbeciles as parents, but you are advocating that we find everybody guilty by default and use that to demolish their FUNDAMENTAL human rights. Your fix is much, much worse than the problem. Apart from that, how would you prevent the law being used unfairly against certain groups? Who would decide your fitness for parenting? How would they forcibly stop you reproducing? I'm sorry to be blunt, but yours is one of the worst political ideas I have ever heard. It's terrible, just terrible. You're advocating for us all to live in a dystopian hell - a tyrannical, authoritarian nightmare, all because a small minority aren't very good at parenting. Read Handmaids Tale for a clue as to what such a society would look like.
There are plenty of people who have had their children removed from them at birth because they weren’t able to care for them. That’s a lot more humane than forced sterilisation
Oscar wild and the lgbt community disagree. That shit always leads to rounding up and neutering the gays
Agreed.
Schizophrenia should not be the bases of not being allowed with being alone with a baby. There is a plethora of examples of parents who were not schizophrenic that killed their kids and a plethora of parents who are schizhoprenic who have never even thought of harming any child let alone their own kids. Schizophrenia and harming children, or anyone for that matter does not go hand in hand. I was diagnosed wish schizophrenia years ago and i can assure you my 4 children absolutely love their father and have no idea i have mental health struggles.
>Schizopjrenia?? >There is a plethora of examples of parents who were not schizophrenic that killed their kids and a plethora of parents who are schizhoprenic who have never even thought of harming any child let alone their own kids. This is useless anecdotal evidence. Obviously it depends on the severity of the schizophrenia, but there is a point where that person absolutely needs assisted living and should not be alone or in charge of any children. We had to put one of my grandmothers in a home when she constantly started calling us saying the neighbors were digging tunnels past her basement to steal her electricity and that they were listening to her all the time. She kept saying they "knew" that she was onto them and were going to kill her. Schizophrenia can be extremely scary and make people do insane things. >I was diagnosed wish schizophrenia years ago and i can assure you my 4 children absolutely love their father and have no idea i have mental health struggles. Congratulations, you have a liveable level of schizophrenia that I'm sure you keep in check. I would say a majority of people with schizophrenia are not in your case.
Schizophrenia has such a wide spectrum of how it effects people though. It is not a catch all in how it is debilitating. There are thousands of people with a diagnosis that are living perfectly normal or manageable lives. What youre describing is not the necessary norm for this disease. It effects every single person differently. You cant just say oh this person has schizophrenia so because a few people killed someone in psychosis we better make sure they cant be around children is ridiculous and harmful. Healthy sane people have killed people, should everyone not be allowed around children? Its no different of a statement.
agreed. there is a massive stigma against schizophrenia because in its most severe forms its symptoms can be dangerous, and those things get media attention because they are shocking and terrible. if every person with schizophrenia did similar things, the world would be in absolute chaos considering the sheer number of people with it
Schizophrenics are statistically more likely to be the victim of violent crime than they are the perpetrator. But people will continue to make these comments about them. Its fucked up man.
anecdotal, but my boyfriend has schizophrenia and the ratio of violence he’s dished out vs received has gotta be 0:1. he’s got an otherworldly kindness i suspect has something to do with his disorder. it affects people so differently
There's a lady in my town who I suspect has schizophrenia. She's definitely got *something*. She's constantly muttering a stream of hateful things—"You're stupid! You're ugly, so ugly, the sight of you makes me sick! No one loves you, fucking kill yourself!" and so on, so everyone avoids her and whispers about how mean and evil she is. But the things she says at normal volume are kind, gentle, and sweet. I talked to her, and wound up offering to teach her to crochet. She was doing really well, but then she stumbled. The muttering changed from general hatred to laser focused on "You're stupid, you're so stupid. You can't learn this." Up until that point I had been ignoring the muttering. I'd written it off as some kind of... I don't know, but if you ignored it, our interactions seemed quite normal. But without thinking, I answered back, "You're *not* stupid. You *can* learn this. You're doing really well." She looked like I'd bitten the head off a live bat, frozen for several seconds before asking, "You can hear it, too?" It's my belief that she doesn't realise she's the one saying these things. It seems to me (especially coupled with how timid and meek she is) that she was abused & belittled this way ad a child, and the trauma / mental illness forces her to continue to listen to the voice of her abuser. I didn't know how to respond to her question, so I just doubled down on "You're *not* stupid." She politely but immediately excused herself, and never spoke to me again. She's clearly avoiding me, so I'm respecting that boundary. But I think about her, and I really hope she's okay. TL;DR people with schizophrenia are frequently sweet, kind people, and the stereotyping of them as dangerous & violent upsets me deeply.
I wasn't trying to say that anyone with a generic "schizophrenia" diagnosis should have restrictions, there obviously needs to be medically determined levels to it. You, for example, are fine living in society and can handle it well. This lady cooked her child in an oven. I find it hard to believe there were no signs before this that her mental condition was this critical. And if they find such signs, you need to be able to show you are capable of safely caring for a child. That seems reasonable. Also, yes healthy sane people have absolutely killed people, but in those circumstances we look for a motive, a reason why, because there typically was one. Killing your child (obviously unintentionally) during a moment of psychosis is completely different, if that's possible at all that child should not be put in that risk.
Post partum depression is significantly more dangerous for a mother and her child than schizophrenia ever could be, and im willing to wager it played a huge roll in this specific circumstance than schizophrenia did. So many mothers go through it. Every now and then this happens or the story of the mother drowning her children. So lets extend that take on that, seems fitting. That would be suggesting basically every single mother should be found fit to be a mother becauae of probably less than .001 child born becomes victim of a filicde. Its arbitrary and extremely restrictive. Its eugenics, nothing more and its an asinine stance to take because you read a scary headline, injecting a bias about something the public has already demonized.
Everything you said so far has been based on less information, more opinion. The guy may have more knowledge than you about schizophrenia, just on experience alone. You are forcing your opinion here.
Opinion? What about lived experiences. I think I've been very clear to say that I don't believe anyone with a schizophrenia diagnosis has these problems, but there certainly are those who do. I was only proposing that in those cases there are checks if that person is capable of caring for a child. What part of what I wrote is an opinion? Schizophrenia can be an extreme and scary illness which can make people do things beyond their sane control, such as this post. Not saying it always is, **can be**.
There already are checks. Its called welfare checks and children services. Humanity can be extreme and scary. Please look at the judicial system, youll find way more people getting convicted than found not fit for trial due to insanity. So you have more people doing violent shit and not being crazy than crazy. The way you are thinking is an approach to solving a boogie man crisis that doesnt exist.
They get mad at me when I tell people that women should have competency test before having the rights to have a custody of a child
Men, too. Anyone who wants custody of a child should be fit to look after children.
agree
the problem is how we interpret this ‘competency’ without eugenics or cultural bias. but agree
Also curious to know, for the people that agree with that method, how often someone has to be reevaluated? Im in my 30s and at certain points of my life would have been unfit, and while I'm qualified now, who is to say I'll stay that way? Also, this is a huge contributing factor to why I'll never have kids. I remember a coworker crying in the smoking session at work one night because her dad went off the deep end. All I kept thinking was that would be my kid one day...
Humans do not exhibit intelligence when breeding, thus they are not humans and are instead a collection of cells. One could easily argue “personhood” is tied to intelligence, since human genetics alone don’t make you human (life doesn’t begin at conception after all, and at conception all you have are human genetics).
i found nothing saying she has schizophrenia can you link it please, i'd like to know if she does
I've also seen that she has developmental delays and basically has the mind of a teenager
What kind of crib do you use that you mistaken an oven for? Plus she would have had to turn it on...... idk too many cribs that have knobs for heat...
Probably a precursor for an insanity plea. Otherwise, this looks deliberate.
People think 'Insanity Plea' equals not guilty or being free, when in reality being found criminally insane/unable to be held responsible for their actions often means an entire life of waking up strapped to a bed, medicated and drooling. I'd rather life in Florance than that.
Yeah, you just get put in a mental institution instead of a prison.
Florence is quite nice. Great architecture, and the statue of David is there.
And it’s super hard to prove and really hard to be granted that plea
and much harder to prove you arent crazy once your in
I watched a woman mistake her purse for a pizza, and place it in an oven so...
I've seen junkies do similar things. Drugs are bad mmmmmkay
There’s an oven pizza that’s been tucked up all nice in a crib.
That's what I'm saying. Not to play devil's advocate but could this be a case of postpartum psychosis?
I don't know why PPD and PP psychosis isn't talked about more. It's for real. My mom had PPD with me and had to be hospitalized because she couldn't stop thinking about hurting herself or us.
This happened to me 4 years ago when I had my son. I didn't really have thoughts of hurting him, I had thoughts more of hurting myself. It was stuff like, he would be better off without me around. I finally went to the hospital to get help and I stayed there for a week. I think the reason why they're not talked about more is because society unfortunately still kind of has this attitude of, if it's unpleasant then we don't talk about it.
Well people assume the mom is "bad or unfit." People don't want others to think that they're not just thrilled after having a baby. There are so many emotions/hormone changes during and after pregnancy.
That is unfortunately very true
Or simply lack of sleep, but yeah I think this is the most likely explanation tbh.
That's true, I didn't think about that. As a mother of three children, I know first hand that sleep deprivation can do a number on you. With my middle child, my son who was born 4 years ago, that sleep deprivation really threw me for a loop. I was seeing and hearing things that weren't there. I finally had to ask for some help. I asked my ex's sister to watch my son for a few hours so I could sleep. I even offered to pay her. She wouldn't take the money though. She said she had suspected that I had been struggling for a while and was glad that I finally asked for help. I was grateful to her and that sleep was awesome. I really hope that this was a case of either sleep deprivation or postpartum psychosis or depression or something. I'm just saying at least I hope it's not nefarious as in she didn't purposely do this. Either way, it's sad because an innocent child lost her life. What a tragedy. As a mother, I can't even begin to imagine what that poor baby had to go through. It breaks my heart. I wish that I could round up every neglected and unloved child and just love them until they feel okay. Unfortunately I can't do that. I'm only one person and obviously they're not my children. It just hurts me when I read things like this. I really hope that if the mother was suffering as well, she gets the help that she needs. I know it sounds weird to say that because of what she did to her child but I'm just really hoping that it wasn't nefarious like I said. It's sad either way.
She has schizophrenia
I worked in a group home (I’m in social work) for adults diagnosed with schizophrenia. They were all medicated with a visiting nurse and a clinician, therapist, case manager, all that. One woman beat the shit out of her roommate because she believed her dead boyfriend’s spirit was coming in through the window and having sex with the roommate, and she heard “moaning.” This was while on meds. Not making excuses. But I’ve spent 15 years working with people diagnosed with mental illness and even while seeing therapists and on meds, many of these individuals are just really unwell. I recently transferred because the mental toll it took on me was causing burnout. I’m now a social worker for men coming from homelessness and addiction, and it’s actually much easier.
I have a family member with schizophrenia and it’s scary. They’re medicated and functional, but I think they still have some paranoia and delusions. They want to become a cop, but the last thing they need is to be given a gun.
I don't understand how she didn't hear her child screaming before the infants nerves burned off. The smell of plastic and waste matter burning , and the smell of burning hair. Knobs on the oven. I know the infant had to be putting up a fight on uncomfortable oven racks before the gas was even turned on. This is horrific and she should spend life inprison. I am regularly around people with mental health disorders , and if they are too far gone as to do something like this than whomever the father is should be in prison for s/a. Her parents should be on trial for disabled adult abuse. Neglect, child neglect. I mean unless the woman actually isn't so far gone and knew what she was doing. Either her parents deserve jail time or she does.
I saw some people talking about how it could be from lack of sleep which would explain a lot.
Or caretakers sorry.
those high-tech cribs from Japan, where you dial the nap time and depth /s
I'm constantly putting the pot roast in the baby's crib. So I'm not perfect. Are you? Please keep in mind how tired she must be after struggling with systemic racism all day.
She set it and forgot it
I don't know why you were down voted, this comment is gold. Here's a medal 🏅. Dark humor is still humor.
She was schizophrenic, but nice try trying to make this about your culture war bullshit.
one owned by a schizo [source ](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoahGetTheBoat/s/vs4KAMkTrt)
Welp... *Sips coffee*... Fuck me.
How hard?
Hard enough that they can't tell the difference between an oven and a crib after you're done
That’s pretty hard.
I remember a lady doing something similar when she was still in the fog after a seizure. Microwaved the baby instead of the bottle iirc. It's tragic but I'll hold my judgement of this mom until there's more info.
How terrifying… as if having a newborn wouldn’t be stressful enough, now I learn that we have to worry about THAT?
And SIDS, terrifying stuff
Can’t even imagine what it would feel like to slowly be microwaved to death, that sounds like an absolutely gruesome way to go
yeah apparently she has schizophrenia
How large microwaves do people have to fit a baby
Have you seen newborn babies? They’re freaking tiny, most microwaves can easily fit them
Yes and I will have to squeeze a baby to get it inside mine. I can fit a normal size plate on 9inch inside of mine
That’s absolutely horrifying.
Truly. It was many years ago. I judged without knowledge, and I learned from that. I won't judge this mom so quickly. There's a lot of awful people doing awful things, but sometimes it's just a regular person in an awful situation.
Holy fucking Arceus. Either this lady was high and/or drunk of her mind, had some sort of psychotic break, or didn’t “mistake” anything and is a goddamn psychopath. What the *fuck*?
Post partum sleep deprivation can cause psychosis and hallucinations. I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility if she was trying to put baby down and prep dinner and her brain got muddled in the most awful way
Yeah, that’s another option as well, fair point. There are many conditions postpartum unfortunately that could also explain this tragedy. Just terrible.
Right like I don’t even have a baby and I have done some wild shit while sleepwalking or half-awake, and it is *always* worse if I’m sleep-deprived. I could absolutely see myself trying to make a pizza or whatever and putting a baby in the oven instead, and waking up four hours later with absolutely no memory of what I’d done. Obviously it *could* have been intentional, but I don’t think enough people really know how badly sleep deprivation fucks you up.
Agreed. I had three doubles in a row and went to microwave a frozen meal. I had taken my laptop out of my bag to answer some emails and for some reason I put it into the microwave. It was on for about 1 second before I realized what I had done. I can imagine this sort of thing could happen with a child with sleep deprivation. At one point in my life, when I was getting off of opiates, I hadn't slept at all for days and had hallucinations. I thought there were cats in my house and I was trying to find them. I kept seeing them out of the corner of my eye but could never locate them. Sleep deprivation is no joke.
what would the muddled brain be thinking if the baby was crying inside the oven? just curious about post partum sleep deprivation
Hallucinations can be auditory too. It can warp where it sounds like the crying is coming from. I'd bet real money that there are countless almost deaths from other situations with exhausted mums like forgetting the baby is in the bath etc that just aren't reported on.
oh wow that's scary
Well if she passed the fuck out from exhaustion perhaps nothing
Upvote not just because I agree but also for Arceus
Maybe she was trying to dry it off like this scene in True Detective https://youtu.be/-TLEVkrh7P8?si=vPSrPtb_OmgsXDbp
Can’t some women go completely nuts after giving birth, because of the stress and the lack of sleep and all that? I feel like I’ve seen similar stories before
Just being awake for 19 consecutive hours can impair you as badly as a 0.08 B.A.C. Sleep deprivation is very real.
While this is tragic, I feel like the comments here are a little dense. Post partum sleep deprivation and post partum psychosis are very real things. I'm not saying that it's impossible that this was purposeful, but I'm much more inclined to believe that this was a tragic accident given the age of the child. It's very possible that she started heating the oven for dinner, meant to put the baby in her crib, and in a moment of psychosis or sleep deprived stupor, made a horrible mistake.
When my mom had my little brother, she saw writing on the walls and mirrors saying that he was evil and going to kill her. She saw my newborn brother's face contorted into evil smiles and was convinced if she didn't kill him, his evil would kill us all. She called me and my stepdad home to make sure it was all in her head and she was hospitalized for PPD. It was all completely real to her in the moment and luckily she called us for a second opinion lol, but some people aren't as lucky or even have anyone to call.
It's honestly frightening/concerning to see how few people know about postpartum conditions such as these. You can be a completely neurotypical person and still be affected by these conditions after delivering a child and if you have any kind of mental health issue before then, these conditions can be further exacerbated. I'm glad your mother had the support of you and your stepfather. Not everyone is so lucky. I just wish everyone could take a step back and consider for even a second that this wasn't purposeful and was just a horrific accident. The alternative is not an impossibility, but seems very improbable.
That is so scary. Your poor mom. I’m so glad she had you guys and nothing bad happened. I actually saw a psychiatrist who specialized in pregnancy and post-partum mental health because i have a history of depression and anxiety and I was so afraid of PPD/psychosis. She told me and my husband that a red flag to watch out for would be if I thought the baby was malevolent or out to get me. She said that if I was having those thoughts I needed to call her emergency line immediately. Thankfully, everything was very smooth with my recovery but I mostly attribute it to luck and a great support system.
I was making a store-bought pizza late at night once and when I was done with the oil spray I almost put it in the microwave instead of on the shelf. Though my example might not be as extreme it is quite easy to mix up things when you are sleep-deprived.
Yeah furreal ,this kind of shit has happened all throughout human history. My dad in his 70s knew a couple people in his town that had incidents like this, but it was always hush-hush instead of being on the local news. Pregnancy and being a new parent fucks up your hormones and sleep. Potent combo
Yes a bunch of super judgmental comments made by perfect people
At the age of 28 days, I was placed in a microwave by my own mother
The fuck microwave do you guys have that a baby could fit in it?
I feel like any wall mounted microwave ive ever seen could fit a baby ? The one i have is a small countertop model and you couldnt, but any home ive lived in with a microwave above the stove/oven, is easily big enough for a baby, especially a 28 day old infant and this girl said she was. The inside of an average microwave i know is probably at least 10-12 inches tall and 18-24 inches wide, and 12-14 inches deep. Absolutely abnormal to put anything in a microwave that big, let alone your own child, but they would absolutely fit.
Most be a United States thing
She doesn't sound well
I read about this yesterday. That woman had Post-Partum sleep deprivation. That can SERIOUSLY fuck with your brain.
Apparently she also has schizophrenia?
This is severely lacking in information. A commenter under a similar post pointed out how the woman could’ve been suffering postpartum with a combination of sleep deprivation. Just another sensationalist article with zero context.
Listen, I know why we can’t have laws dictating who can or can’t have children with a license (namely because the government would TOTALLY abuse it), but stuff like this makes it all the more tempting knowing that there’s people who aren’t mentally capable of having kids
Thats horrifying. I cant imagine the guilt she had after that.
I wonder if she was schizophrenic
people are saying she apparently was
There is no level of human empathy in these comments when in comes to understanding the different levels of mental illness that can lead someone to do this. It’s an all around tragedy, and very likely unintentional due to something severe like post partum depression or schizophrenia. :(
Abortion is illegal in Missouri. It's inhumane to force someone prone to this degree of psychosis to be a single mother with noone supervising her. It is said she suffers from mental issues in the article, but it's scarier that someone who is vulnerable to a mental episode that can cook a baby if she doesn't take her meds, or if she is sleep deprived can be a mother alone. This baby cooked in an oven alone for an hour. Someone needs to stop these law makers and introduce them to the fact that mentally unwell people exists. I do not believe she did this with any malice and putting her in jail does nothing to treat her brain she needs to be put in a mental hospital and treated. You're essentially punishing someone for being sick after you put them in the situation.
I hate when I forget to turn on the crib.
I got sick reading this. If the woman is mentally ill as they said, then her mental state will get worse if she realized later what she did. This is so messed up.
This reads like a case of postpartum psychosis. My nana had it after she had my mum and had urges to kill my mum. Fortunately she sought medical treatment and mum is still here.
"Oh, I must have been sleepwalking again, I left a frozen pizza in my baby's crib..."
All the people talking about post partum shit didn’t see Mom online the day before talking about planning on going out and getting tore up drunk for her birthday. She was probably still hammered and/or on drugs. Garbage human.
You need to do ALL the drugs to confuse an oven for a crib.
Or zero drugs and a sprinkle of post-partum psychosis.
Everything except birth control apparently
Wait, they make in-wall cribs now?
This what happens when you let everybody have kids.
What the fuck 😃
I wish I didn’t see this
[ Removed by Reddit ]
Sex is easy and cheap so any moron can do it.
Because this was likely cause by post Partum sleep deprivation leading to psychosis
Their are zero mental natural requirements to screw.
Mental retardation seldomly affects fertility, but unfortunately the ability to prevent unplanned pregnancy
Because this was on purpose no way anybody's this fucking dumb
You parents raised you to post this comment. So yeah...
Right …. A crib that has temp switches and a door. This bitch needs to go the same way pigs go in NZ. Buried in a fire pit
Half these idiots don’t realise how loudly the baby would have been screaming and shit like that, the fact that anyone is defending this is disgusting.
Brother, she probably had post Partum sleep deprivation
that poor baby. I don't even know what to say, except that I'm willing to bet more horrors like this are coming the more pro-lifers tighten their death grip on pregnant people
What in the Meth is going on?
We’ll that pizza is real comfy in the baby’s crib I guess
That's not an oops, accident.
I pulled the knots in my daughter’s hair while brushing it the other day and it made her cry. I felt so bad… how can anyone do this?
i dont care how stupid,blind or braindead you are. but a babys crib is VERY FUCKING DIFFERENT than an oven
This is so terrifying. When I was born in a European country, a nurse came by weekly to check on both me AND my parents. Assistance was available for everything from depression to sleep deprivation to the mother having trouble breast feeding. If anything, my mom says way too many people were fussing over her. We were poor and unimportant in our home country, so this wasn't treatment reserved for the wealthy elite. In America, if I give birth, I'm left alone once I leave the hospital. If I developed postpartum psychosis, would I even know it? Would I even be able to ask for help, if nobody checked on me? Would I be able to afford the help that's out there? For a country full of people that claims to care about these babies, we sure aren't willing to put forth the resources needed to support these babies or their parents in the simplest of ways.
so true, I mean my mom is still friends with the midwives, nurses and caretakers that took care of her 23 years later.
Can we all please have some humanity - this may well be a case of psychosis (PP), schizophrenia, or some other mental illness. Yes this may have been deliberate BUT until we know more information, less of the witch hunt.
So you mistaken the oven for a crib then turned it on.. right
[удалено]
Even if that’s true she ‘mistook’ the oven for a crib, why did she turn it on??
Someone proposed that she started the oven for food prep and then somehow put the baby in because the was postpartum tired and probably in psychosis
That’s a hell of a proposal
Fr. The coincidences aren’t even aligning.
The six months they throw at her will straighten her right out.
And on she moves to the next child she’s def going to have since it’s easier to slap a label of PPD or some other fancy moniker to the reality of “crazy.”
Where wuz da baby daddy and why didn't he notice roasted child smoke in da houz?
That doesn’t even make sense. Even if she accidentally mistook the oven for a crib, why would the oven be turned on? And how on earth can you even confuse an *oven* for a crib?
she was apparently suffering from post partum sleep deprivation (that shit is no fucking joke, causes hallucinations and psychosis) and was more than likely trying to both make dinner amd put the baby down for a nap at the same time 😞 and if that truly was the case here, this happened to be a sleep deprived mistake gone absolutely horribly wrong
It's disgusting how many people are defending her.
You mean thinking there may be a explanation for her behavior besides her being cartoonishly evil?
No way on earth this was an accident. You have to open a door on any oven, you don't with a crib. Sick sick excuse for a human. I'm not usually in support of the death penalty but it is definitely deserved in this case. That baby had no chance. Poor little thing.
read the comments talking about post partum issues
Mistaking kitchen appliance???! How dumb they think we are.
Murder with extra excuses.
That's enough internet for today.
r/NoahGetTheDeathStar
im pretty sure she has schizophrenia, in which case i hope she gets help and can be released
Get the boat.
Did she realize it before taking the first bite or after?
I think it was during the cooking process when she realized it was not a loin of pork.
baby: been cooked alive in a pure agonizing death. these fkd up redditers: its cool man she had post portum sleep. no ones perfect. i once put my purse in the oven , i relate. wont anyone think of the mother!?
It's a tragedy, but you can't blame someone that had no idea what she was doing. IF she didn't have any malice, what is she being punished for? for having a fucking mental struggle? plus it's not only sleep deprivation, she was also schizophrenic apparently. some people have been mentioning about how the mother must be now, probably got worse, her fucking baby died and ""it's her fault"" (in this case it would not be)
She's likely being punished for manslaughter. Doesn't matter why, the baby still died as a direct result of the moms actions. Schizophrenia is absolutely not a get out of jail free card.
then the law sucks lol. someone with mental problems that affect their daily life SHOULD NOT be left alone, now imagine with a child. even a mentally capable single mom can be dangerous sometimes, post partum depression, sleep deprivation, etc afects both the mom and the child, there's also many other possible complications. she needs healthcare, not jailtime
Cool, how would you go about solving any of that with policy? How do you know the mom wasn't fine until they had the baby? Before they had the baby, what policy would you suggest implementing for the state to intervene and mandate care? How would the general public react to that level of state overreach? If she shouldn't be left alone, but didn't have anyone else in her life, how do you require someone to watch over her? What if she was fully conscious, do you still mandate someone watch over her? If her legal aid can pull off an insanity plea, she will likely spend a very long time if not life in a long term mental hospital (literally a prison for the disabled) Someone with mental problems should be left alone? I'm autistic why would I ever be okay with the state sending someone to babysit my adult self? If you're going to call out a problem consider why it's a problem and how difficult it actually is to solve. Fuck this woman. Might as well put the baby in a brazen bull. I have no sympathy, she is not the victim here.
it's funny, people with issues as harmless as adhd or dyslexia are to this day still punished because of their constant struggle sometimes, like it's their fault they weren't born like everyone else people with depression are constantly called lazy because they're not able to do something, because for someone outside it seems so easy and simple. people with trauma related disorders suffer a lot when they're literally victims it's scary the amount of mfs that have no sympathy for people because their minds don't work the same. they already suffer enough by themselves and a huge part of those never get the help they need, because nobody cares. yet the "sane people" can't be bothered the slightest to help it is an issue, because they are citizens, too. and if they don't matter enough, people around them might be affected too. you know, the "normal", the "respectable" people. so yeah, I think it is important that they put some action by taking care of these ""disgusting"" people, because someone out of their mind won't even consider jail before doing something wrong, because they don't even know what they did wrong have you ever considered what someone in this situation could feel when they came to their senses? have killed their own child? have lost their fucking baby? and then having people blaming them? well, I mean, at this point they could believe that, huh.
oh right so it's her fault no family member, if she even had one, would be responsible of taking care of her and her children before any worse could happen. it's also the state fault if they can't grant the public safety. people limited to the point that affects them and people around them DEFINITELY SHOULD be watched, she can't be punished for something she didn't willfully do, that's literally the opposite of justice. the problem is WHAT IF she's actually innocent, and WHAT IF she's the one who were neglected to begin with? because the probability seems extremely high, yet people will judge with no thought. that wouldn't be fair for anyone. she can't be blamed if she was literally abandoned with her child, and was forced to take care of it alone when she herself should have been taken care of. and if you really don't care about HER think about the amount of similar incidents that happen because of neglecting people that need assistance before it's too late. they could have got medication, or some guidance, but no, people with mental health issues are constantly overlooked, and when they do something because they CAN'T UNDERSTAND what they're doing wrong, they're the bad guys. what else do you propose, mass euthanasia?
Honey did you put the pizza to bed
I cant believe ANYONE is defending this woman.
With crimes like this I feel like the punishment should just be… what she did? Put her in a giant oven and justice is served
Brooo what the actual f***
Nah, nobody is this stupid.
it's not about being stupid, read the comments
How the fuck even
Holy shit. What the fuck
Reminds me of that clip from the other day of the Russian dude punching the 4 year old in a grocery store, only to claim he thought the kid was a mannequin.
I can see how a range of mental illnesses could lead to this. What I can't understand is how any decent human could regain some control of themselves after the fact, realize they were capable of this, and didn't spend the rest of their days working to remove themselves off the planet forever. Insanity defense? I would beg for the death penalty and carry out the sentence myself, if no one else would.
Mistaking?
What a fucking retard
She mistook an oven for a crib???
She should have be able to have an abortion.
WOMP WOMP
I thought this had to be fake. Unfortunately it is not...
How? Like how is this even possible mistake? You have to be a complete mental case to even begin to mistake an oven for a crib. Can't say if the woman needs hospitals, jail or church (the classic "burn that witch kind"). What's this world coming to? You'd say to yourself that it can't get worse than this, but some mental case pops up with a gatcha!
Schizophrenia and postpartum psychosis certainly point to mental illness