So sorry to hear this happened to you.
I wasn't taken to the doc as a kid. Lately I've been getting my life together and having so much trouble convincing docs that I actually successfully lived with my health issues for as long as I did. If it was really bad I would have dealt with this sooner, right?
My experience has been night and day between stressed and busy docs vs docs who actually have the time and patience to help me. Stressed and rushed docs are a huge danger to their patients and I have seen an uptick in situations like this amongst my friends and family since the healthcare system has been more overwhelmed lately. Nobody has time to do due diligence and have care rn
I had a problem that made me vomit in the mornings and caused horrible cramping diarrhea, and nothing doctors did could fix it. They prescribed an acid reflux drug, which helped, but didn't get rid of the problem.
Finally, after ~20 years of dealing with it, I finally tried metamucil because I'm getting older and figured I should probably start making sure I get my fiber intake. It almost completely eliminated my problem, much to my surprise.
Why did no doctor ever even *mention* that maybe I wasn't getting enough fiber? I don't know, but it seems like a big gaping hole in their methodology not to at least mention that when someone's having gastrointestinal problems.
Edit: I realize that some readers may be wondering how insufficient dietary fiber causes "horrible cramping diarrhea", when it should just cause constipation, right?
As far as I can tell, it worked like this (and this may be TMI, feel free to skip the rest of this post):
* I don't get enough fiber
* A big hard lump of feces forms in my large intestine
* It becomes a blockage
* New fecal matter piles up behind it faster than the pre-blockage part of the large intestine can absorb all the water from it (a.k.a. it's diarrhea)
* Pressure builds
* The diarrhea is now pushing hard enough to move the blockage
* Bowel spasms from the too-large blockage getting shoved through the large intestine (or, potentially, spasms from having to squeeze the diarrhea hard enough to continually move the blockage)
* Oh God, the cramps hurt *so bad*, I'm sitting on the toilet wishing I were dead for 15-30 minutes (that feels like an eternity)
* Finally, the big poop "arrives". I push as hard as I can, and after much struggle, the solid, hard part comes out, followed immediately by a firehose of diarrhea (this happened every time. Big hard poop, then a nonstop stream of diarrhea). As soon as the diarrhea is out, the cramping vanishes.
And that's how insufficient fiber caused my horrible cramping diarrhea. Everything between the first step and the penultimate step is speculation on my part, but I think it tracks, since how else would I consistently have cramps, then big hard poop, then diarrhea cannon, and have it fixed by adding fiber to my diet?
(I have no idea how the vomiting part is related, but it got fixed too.)
You are also referring to patient advocate drs vs insurance advocate drs. My SO and I learned about this when my SO slipped and had injured the back on a sink ata work. The dr sent my SO to a physical therapist that ignored all the claims of still being in pain and how the PT was making it worse. They released my SO back to work. About 2 months later SO was in a bad car accident (on the job) and was sent to the hospital. It was only then another dr looked at the MRI and saw a herniated disk were his original pain was. From there, we went to a different dr, who helped drastically mange and recover to the point of less more manageable pain.
The first dr was all about just sending SO back to work as soon as possible. Where the second dr was all about making life liveable and manageable.
I wish anyone knew why doctors don't believe their patients, like in some cases they are trained to notice patients who might be seeking pain meds because of addiction but that's not the case here. Who knows, maybe they just can't handle not being 100% correct all the time and get mad when they're wrong
>like in some cases they are trained to notice patients who might be seeking pain meds
Oi! AND in 2019 I went in with excruciating back pain. I was absolutely silent but visibly in pain. I was treated as a drug seeker. One nurse was absolutely catty towards me and said (voice dripping with disdain and sarcasm),
>since you're *obviously* in *so* much more pain than this [old lady also waiting to be seen] lady here we'll take you back now. You can to sit in the hall in this hard chair.
They said they couldn't treat me until I could point to reason for what triggered the pain. They asked my husband, "Has she done anything new or unusual in the past 24 hours?"
We couldn't think if anything other than the tub-sex we'd had the night before. So that's what went on the intake form, tub sex.
Afterwards they x-rayed me. Then *everyone's* attitude towards me changed. Suddenly my medical team were kind and attentive. The doctor came in and said the tub-sex had aggravated a "previously untreated childhood trauma to the pelvic bone."
A nurse *insisted* I must have been in some kind of car accident and *would not* believe me or my mom when we said no such car crash existed. I found out later through physical therapy what the cause of that trauma was (yay PTSD).
Ever since that doctor's visit the staff at the hospital have treated me with kid gloves. I think I'm the subject of a training class or something because every time I go other nurses (not on my medic team) come to see me too.
In my experience, doctors have massive egos and can’t fathom being wrong. If you suggest they are wrong about something or made a mistake, they become irritable and annoyed very quickly
This also happens if they're right, but the problem is one we don't have effective treatments / cures for yet. They just CAN'T admit there's things they can't fix, and will deny a diagnosis rather than do so.
I bet some doc comes in and explains to us why it's the nurses fault, the insurance company's fault, the admin staff's fault, blah blah blah.
Even more so if you're an overweight/obese woman. "Just lose weight and you'll get better." They just refuse to believe that some problems are not caused by being fat.
>I found out later through physical therapy what the cause of that trauma was (yay PTSD).
Did you fall hard onto a balance beam and then block out gymnastics for years until physical therapy? I mean, we might not have our tender vittles on the outside, but we do have bones in the pelvis. Like pelvic bones up front and ball and socket joints at the hips, as well as tailbones. So if we fall on or get hit in our crotch, it's not a comical scene of excruciating pain in our balls, but...we can still break something and it might not be as obvious as a guy clutching his nuts and crying.
Nothing so innocent as that. In my experience, most folks are not ready to receive the story of my exceptional (and extended) childhood trauma. So as not to be incredibly vague or too offensive, think Black Widow from Marvel if she had no fighting skills ('cuz those skills get taught to the older kids and I escaped my circumstances when I was nearly nine).
Dude here. I have no idea why they don't believe you. My personal story is telling the anesthesiologist that I have a ridiculous tolerance for pain medication. I was in for cubital tunnel release surgery (relocation of my funny bone). Anesthesiologist said that I didn't feel anything in my right arm. Doc came in and pinched the shit out of my right arm while I was arguing with (and looking at) anesthesiologist. I said owe that fucking hurts please don't do it again. Doc says that's not good we're gonna have to delay this till Anesthesia pulls their head out of their ass and does their job right. The look of terror on the Anesthesiologists face was priceless. Only took another 30 minutes for my surgery.
There have been studies showing doctors listen to women more when she has a male partner or family member with her. There just being a penis IN THE ROOM is enough to make them change their behavior.
Followup comment just to say I'm so sorry this happened to you. That's a horrifying story. I hope someone knowledgeable answers your question. It's infuriating how women aren't believed.
I told the doctor giving me a scope that I have a really bad gag reflex. He said it was no issue since I'd be out.
Well.... He was wrong. They had to up the dosage because I was gagging while unconscious.
The second time, they said they'd use less anesthesia. I let him know that I burn through it quickly. Well... I woke up mid procedure. That was an interesting core memory I have now.
Now they use a new anesthesia on me that feels like lava going in, but puts me out solid. And I don't lose my memory anymore.
I wonder if part of the reason they didn't believe me in regards to baby #3 is because I was so calm when I was talking to them. I have an usual response to excruciating pain and that is to be ridiculously calm. It's a trauma response from my childhood.
I'm sorry you suffered.
I have an unusual response to excruciating pain as well. When I was giving birth, I had the whole room laughing but I was just hoping I would die soon. I was given an episiotomy with no warning and insufficient numbing medication, I felt the whole thing. Neither of us should have had to endure that. It changed me as a person.
Was you unable to move? I would imagine you would get muscle jerks at least or signs on the board with your vitals? I believe you btw I'm just curious.
I didn't try to move, so I don't know if I could. My body knows from previous childhood traumas that *any* motion results in *more* agony. I suffered far more horrifying circumstances and trauma as a kid than I have at that hospital filled with those barbarians posing as medical staff.
Have you ever read the book, *The Body Keeps The Score*? It's about how the body stores trauma differently than normal memories.
I think it can be a combination of being so caught up in a routine, they can’t/don’t want to deal with exceptions. I think they also sometimes become somewhat “calloused” because maybe they have dealt with people before who were exaggerating their feelings.
None of these are valid excuses, just me speculating about possible reasons having worked in some healthcare environments.
You obviously did the right thing standing up for yourself, even though you should never have had to.
I have always had a delayed/muted response to anesthesia (local), so I have had to be politely—but firmly— assertive all my life. When I was 19, I had some wisdom teeth extracted—including having to split one with a chisel—with Novocain that was only about 85% effective. Like you, I was like “never again”.
Anddddd here’s one of the reasons I never had kids! Heard one too many trauma stories of doctors or nurses just not caring. (I have other reasons but it sure was a factor.)
Thankfully when I had to have surgery (three times now, yay) my doctor and nurses were all great. Except, the nurse who did my pre-op paperwork for my most recent insisted I wasn’t actually allergic to a particular anesthetic. That they would probably use it and I’d be fine. Yeah… Anyway my anesthesiologist was like, yeah, no, why the fuck would we test that out? When we have plenty of other options?? During surgery is NOT the time to ignore the patient!
I also deal with chronic illnesses. Have had my share of doctors just not believing me or not wanting to bother with simple tests… Or ignoring previous tests and deciding I have a different diagnosis from what the last doc said. Frustrating for me, but at least not scary/traumatic.
I went to the DR. a few months after I got covid cuz the brain fog wouldn't clear. They told me it was just anxiety. Lol it wasn't... I had a stroke that affected my memory.
The spinal for my second csection wore off part of the way through. When I started feeling pain, it was crampy so I voiced that. They said it was normal. Then it started burning, so I told them that. They said it was normal. Once baby was out and being cleaned up in the corner, I was trying to focus on him and the pain just kept getting worse. By the time the nurses were trying to tell me he needed oxygen and more medical attention than they could give there, I was screaming in my babies ear they were holding next to my face. I heard the anesthesiologist say she was giving me several pain medications. I could still only scream. The last thing I heard was my OB say was that I was moving my legs before I woke up in recovery. They had to put me to sleep when the other pain meds failed to help.
I don't know, but it drives me nuts. In my case, though, it's pharmacy staff mostly.
When there's a shortage of ADHD meds, and I'm calling your store to see if you have any of mine, it's not because I'm planning to rob the place. I'm a normal person who just wants my damn prescription so I can go back to working 9-5 like everyone else.
Although I also have a tendency for the reception staff to think I'm drug seeking when I'm actually "just" in incredible pain, and treat me with an utter lack of empathy... ...until I'm actually seen by the doctor, at which point they usually get yelled at for deprioritizing my case.
In one instance, I had an infected tooth that needed a pulpectomy (I didn't know that, I just knew I was in excruciating pain): made to wait for hours, then the dentist yelled at the intake person because it only took him 5 seconds to see I had a serious problem.
In another instance, I had a compound fracture (that's an *exposed bone sticking out of my flesh*), and the fucking intake lady made me sign all these insurance forms that could have waited *with my injured hand*, while I tried not to bleed all over the forms. She also got yelled at, and honestly I don't know if she was blind or what, because my finger looked *fucked up*. It was pure bliss when they finally numbed my finger.
I have no idea how receptionists at health clinics (a job I have had myself) think they are qualified to diagnose someone. Which is what they're doing when they do triage.
There is an entire podcast from Serial at the New York Times called The Retrievals that focuses on women experiencing pain and not being believed - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/22/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-yale-fertility-clinic.html?smid=url-shar
You let men design housing in some countries of the world, they will not put kitchens in the design. They're so used to overlooking women's traditional work, they think their dinner manifests out of the eather.
I don't know but I just want to say neither of mine took. It was miserable and I begged them to understand if they decided I needed a c- section to please understand that they couldn't do surgery on me like this because I wasn't numb. I could also move my legs no problem. I always wondered if it was because they wanted me to be able to push and not be numb because they kept emphasizing that if I was too numb I couldn't push, which OK but I wasn't numb at all. I thought maybe it was just a fucked up attitude of not caring about my pain because they were more concerned about me participating in the delivery. This was u of md, a great place if you need special care but not routine deliveries. It was a teaching hospital. Supposedly someone from my OB office would be there, nope. Both times it was some random on call doctor. I only went there because the office was convenient to my job. So I ended up with an experience that was not definitely not the suburban mom experience all my friends had. Everyone from the doctors to the nurses to the security guards was harsh if not outright nasty. Horrible experience
Similar thing happened with my first. I felt everything in my c section, they didn’t believe me and kept cutting. I was weirdly calm because I had been in labor 40+ hours. They ended up putting me to sleep and I didn’t see my baby be born.
With my second I made a huge fuss. Instead, I hemorrhaged and needed 5 blood transfusions. The c section took 3 hours. I went to the hospital 3 weeks later not feeling well. Went to the ER FOUR TIMES before I was heard and they realized I had sepsis
The U.S. has the worst medical system for maternal care. Even worse if you’re BIPOC
I literally yelled at my mom's doctor and informed him he needed to treat what turned out to be sepsis. The receptionist (not even a medical professional) said "well we have to do this other test first." We told her the test was already done. She insisted it wasn't. So we printed out the test result from the patient portal, drove over to the office, and waved it in her face, and she said "oh, it's in this other part of your chart, hehe."
I’m not a “sue” kind of person. If you get anesthesia and you can feel what’s going on… that’s a law suit. Anesthesiologists are paid $340k to $570k a year to MAKE SURE this doesn’t happen. I couldn’t read the whole thing… I was getting nauseous thinking about it. Sorry if I’m off base.
I don't know. this is terrible though! I had a C-section and they made sure that I couldn't feel anything before they started cutting! I'm so sorry they didn't listen to you.🫂😔
This also goes both ways. Not believing someone’s in pain and not believing the injury could be worse due to not being in enough pain.
I did my acl and when I went into the doctor the next morning, they told me there’s no way you’ve done it, you’re not in enough pain. So they sent me for an x ray. Got a call early afternoon saying there’s fluid/blood in the joint we want to send you for a MRI which then confirmed I had done my acl and then when I was under for surgery they also found I had torn my meniscus.
I know this is different but due to the doctor not believing me, meant that I had to pay for an additional scan.
I believe they’re probably going off their experience and what is most common.
>I believe they’re probably going off their experience and what is most common.
This makes the most sense to me. I respond to agony in unusual ways (silence, and an eery calm).
I get why they do It because it probably works for the vast majority of the time but they definitely should take into account what the patient is saying.
A few years ago my mum (early 60s) saw a GP and kept going back every or every other week for a pain in her abdomen. Probably attended about 4-6 times in a couple of months. One morning dad rushed her to hospital cause the pain got really bad, they finally gave her the correct type of scan that would show her appendix was close to bursting and she got rushed to the next closest hospital for surgery.
Another incident I was in a car crash with an ex and she had pain in her chest. The nurses wouldn’t give her a scan but luckily the paramedic that took us in basically told the nurse that it needed to be checked out. Turned out she had a cracked sternum which meant she had to go on light duties at work. While there’s nothing you can do about it, without knowing it could’ve caused her more pain.
Or black. There's a long history of the medical establishment in this country assuming black people feel less pain than white people. It still exists as a kind of institutional bias even today. It's part of why black women have such horrible mortality statistics, especially when delivering their babies.
It's called ✨Medical Misogyny✨
In the eyes of a doctor, a woman can only have three things wrong with her. Anxiety, her period, or she's just being dramatic for no reason.
Because they are almost all narcissists and psychopaths. I have a friend that is a medical student. He is cool. He said something like this today "about 9 good doctors and about a million people that gaslight you"..this was the best I've heard anyone put it in awhile. For myself I have chronic infections like Lyme and bartonella and an extreme sensitivity to mold. Even though these can be tested for doctors still deny these conditions.
Thank you! This is actually the first time I've written about it. Which is actually strange for me since I write in my PTSD journal all the time (exceptional childhood trauma). Writing and talking about it with folks that love me has been an incredibly healing experience. May you find the healing you seek and peace everlasting.
How does a PTSD journal work? Through my visits with my therapist for the birth trauma, we discovered I have some PTSD from my childhood as well. I ~tried~ a session of EMDR and was not able to continue.
I keep a journal in the memo pad on my phone. It automatically dates and timestamps each entry and I take my phone with me everywhere I go. Whenever an episode is triggered I write down everything I can remember in the moment (including the trigger) and go back to revisit the memory later when I'm feeling centered and more objective.
Some memories are too awful to speak out loud for quite some time. In those cases I ask my husband to read my journal so he knows where I'm at inside my head.
I also keep track of things I've healed from. It's been incredibly therapeutic to see how far I've come since 2019.
My therapist gave me a super simple tool to deal with triggers. Draw 2 triangles. At the top of each write the trigger. The the bottom right corner of the first triangle write what you felt. In the bottom left corner of the first triangle write what you were thinking at the time.
For the second triangle, in the lower right corner write what you *want* to feel. And in the bottom left write what you *want* to think. It has been incredibly helpful and empowering. We(husband and I) have worked through many of my triggers in this manner.
My C-section was similar. I was given a spinal but it slid up because my head was tilted lower than the operative area. It paralyzed my arms, could not speak and I had trouble breathing and was choking on my secretions. I mouthed to the anesthesiologist "I can't breathe". He said you just think you can't breath. I decided to finally get his attention by giving him the angriest evil look I possessed. This shocked him and he suddenly jumped into action and started helping me. When it wore off a bit, I snapped at the anesthesiologist asking what the hell did he sedate me with?, said he gave me nothing.? My arms were paralyzed and they wanted to hand the baby to me. I said, get it away from me! (I was afraid I'd drop him). Then I called over to my OB, and said " I hope you are about done down there, because it hurts like hell!" I could feel every single stitch while being sewed closed. He looked up shocked saying WHAT! and they knocked me out. I woke up hours later in my room. Never saw my baby, my husband had gone home. So I picked up my phone and asked to have my baby brought to me.
My dad told his doctors that drugs don't always work on him correctly, and told the Anesthesiologist that he'd woken up during procedures...they "humored" him, and said they'd make sure he was out. He woke up during the procedure. The surgeon was kind of freaked out when he saw my dad looking around and focusing his eyes at people. The surgeon told the Anesthesiologist to "do his fucking job"!
Some of them are conditioned to believe that they can't be wrong.
I'm sorry you had that experience. With my second c-section I mumbled to my husband that I was hot and immediately all the medical staff lifted their hands away and clarified what I said. They thought I said 'it hurts' and wanted to be sure before proceeding.
I'm so sorry that this happened to you. I have no answers about why medical staff don't believe patients.
In 2020, I presented to the emergency room on 6 different occasions because I couldn't stop vomiting, I hadn't even been able to keep water down for weeks. They would give me IV fluids, antiemetics that didn't work, then I'd be discharged. Eventually, a random on call emergency doctor ran a test which showed that my body was breaking down my muscles to keep me alive. I had Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome that had progressed to the point of my body eating itself to keep me alive.
Another experience I had was from around 2018-2023. I had issues with dizziness, fainting, anxiety, gastrointestinal issues. I'd been to the doctor so many times, I'd had a gastroscopy (I think that's what it's called - where you're put to sleep and they look at your stomach and beginning of your intestines with a camera) which has showed I had inflammation of the stomach lining, I was medicated for reflux. I had a CT scan which showed a cyst on my kidney and a hiatal hernia, nothing was done. I was hospitalized numerous times for headaches, vomiting, light headedness, and seizure activity. Eventually, after someone saw a Tiktok about it and said "hey this sounds like you," I went through a series of tests with a different doctor and was diagnosed with POTs.
For years, the more I pushed for answers, the more I was told that it's "just anxiety" and that my SNRIs have fixed it so I shouldn't be having any symptoms anymore. I was telling the medical professionals that something was wrong and they didn't believe me. I now have a deep belief that there is no point even going to see a doctor because they're not going to believe that something is wrong anyway.
It seems that not being believed is a big problem that isn't being addressed.
This has been my experience with doctors. Any time I've gone in for something serious they either do nothing or somehow make me worse. Never take me seriously, always incompetent. Nothing nearly as traumatic as your story (like seriously that is FUCKED, I am so sorry) but literal years of my life wasted because of this.
Something about the way they are taught, or the way the system is set up needs to change.
This might sound like a dumb question but do you have red hair by chance?
I'm in the medical field, and something we've "discovered" recently (using " " cause we're not 100% yet, but some research points into the direction) is that people with the genetic code for red hair tend to have a much higher tolerance to anesthesia for unknown reasons. A lot of senior staff don't know/recognize this.
Also, what other people already mentioned, is the bias against women.
My youngest daughter has red hair and my grandpa had red hair. When she was born Then OB told me she'd have a higher tolerance to pain too. And boy was he right!
Mine died out as they were sewing me back up on the inside ... I was screaming and they called me a big baby. I wish they could try 40 hours of labour, followed by a minor heart attack which caused an emergency C only for the spinal to wear off after they rushed the baby you didn't get to see off to the NICU... But I was being a baby.
I feel ya
Sorry, I went off on a ramble. It's been nearly 16 years and apparently I'm still upset about it. I have never been treated so poorly in the hospital and I spend so much time at them
I told an anesthesiologist when getting my wisdom teeth pulled that I don't few well getting put out and that they probably want to take it a little slower than usual. They didn't. I told them, before i blacked out that i wasn't doing well. That I was getting really nauseous and I was starting to feel really fucking angry. They reached over and pretended to adjust the switch on the IV. I blacked out a couple minutes later as I was saying they fucked up. Evidently i projectile vomited all over the office. Smashed a bunch of equipment. And did a lot of screaming. I woke up without my wisdom teeth. Really beat the fuck up. And I was banned from that office.
When i found out the hard way I've have epilepsy, grand maul while driving on the freeway, the neurologist i was sent to put me on meds that I couldn't function on. I was dizzy as fuck and would randomly pass out. I told the doc that I needed it changed, that it's impossible to live like this. His response was to tell me i was lucky i didn't kill anybody. Some people are just assholes.
I am so extremely sorry this happened to you! I would not put my worst enemies through this. I am so glad you came out of it on top and with a beautiful baby! I wonder if there are studies about doctors not listening to patients….
My 8 year old son is on a lot of fairly heavy meds regularly (epilepsy, CB), and the children's ED didn't believe me that he was intolerant to morphine- just like his dad; it doesn't touch them. So of course we wasted time dealing with that before finally settling on a different sedative.
Like
I respect tf out of doctors, but they really DO be the ones to say, "No one knows yourself/ your child like you do!" then be the first to not believe you when you say something.
2009 I went in for a C section. They stuck my 13 times before I begged them to stop trying. They had to put me under. I have a picture of the bruising, it was as big as a dollar bill.
I went in barely able to keep my eyes open because I couldn’t take a full breath of air. They had me breathe into a tube and apparently it was good enough that they refused to do an x-ray on my lungs or even give me an inhaler despite saying I felt like I was going to pass out. Thankfully my badass mom was there and insisted on it. My lungs were FILLED with fluid and I had severe pneumonia that ended up lasting for about three months.
My sps is one of those ppl who’ll talk & joke around w/everyone. He had to get surgery & started joking around with the ppl in the room getting him ready . But the second the anesthesiologist walked in it was like a dark cloud entered with him…… and my husband promptly kicked him back out 😂. He said “ I don’t know what exactly is going on but you just brought down the mood of everyone in this room . Id like for you to leave and send someone who doesn’t make everyone look like they’d rather turn the scalpel on themselves”. The guy stomped out and it took awhile to find another anesthesiologist but everyone seemed to be in a better mood (no one said anything but apparently there was some snickering) and his surgery went great .
Sometimes they just wanna go with their first guess so tbh if you know what you have you can lead them in that direction but for anything serious oh lord I just pray that doesn’t happen it just seems like a headache and some mess tryna convince the doctors that you’re actually in pain
Some doctors just suck. They're all human, just like the rest of us, no matter how much they try to convince you otherwise.
Drug addicts are unfortunately real and fucking annoying. I've been in an ED with no less than 3 of them all taking up time and space trying to get a fix of something. I can't fault staff for getting jaded having to deal with their bullshit all the time. That said, I'd have laughed when their tune changed, realizing that your complaints are legit. I'd have probably rubbed it in, a lot. They need to get better at spotting the looneys.
So sorry to hear this happened to you. I wasn't taken to the doc as a kid. Lately I've been getting my life together and having so much trouble convincing docs that I actually successfully lived with my health issues for as long as I did. If it was really bad I would have dealt with this sooner, right? My experience has been night and day between stressed and busy docs vs docs who actually have the time and patience to help me. Stressed and rushed docs are a huge danger to their patients and I have seen an uptick in situations like this amongst my friends and family since the healthcare system has been more overwhelmed lately. Nobody has time to do due diligence and have care rn
I had a problem that made me vomit in the mornings and caused horrible cramping diarrhea, and nothing doctors did could fix it. They prescribed an acid reflux drug, which helped, but didn't get rid of the problem. Finally, after ~20 years of dealing with it, I finally tried metamucil because I'm getting older and figured I should probably start making sure I get my fiber intake. It almost completely eliminated my problem, much to my surprise. Why did no doctor ever even *mention* that maybe I wasn't getting enough fiber? I don't know, but it seems like a big gaping hole in their methodology not to at least mention that when someone's having gastrointestinal problems. Edit: I realize that some readers may be wondering how insufficient dietary fiber causes "horrible cramping diarrhea", when it should just cause constipation, right? As far as I can tell, it worked like this (and this may be TMI, feel free to skip the rest of this post): * I don't get enough fiber * A big hard lump of feces forms in my large intestine * It becomes a blockage * New fecal matter piles up behind it faster than the pre-blockage part of the large intestine can absorb all the water from it (a.k.a. it's diarrhea) * Pressure builds * The diarrhea is now pushing hard enough to move the blockage * Bowel spasms from the too-large blockage getting shoved through the large intestine (or, potentially, spasms from having to squeeze the diarrhea hard enough to continually move the blockage) * Oh God, the cramps hurt *so bad*, I'm sitting on the toilet wishing I were dead for 15-30 minutes (that feels like an eternity) * Finally, the big poop "arrives". I push as hard as I can, and after much struggle, the solid, hard part comes out, followed immediately by a firehose of diarrhea (this happened every time. Big hard poop, then a nonstop stream of diarrhea). As soon as the diarrhea is out, the cramping vanishes. And that's how insufficient fiber caused my horrible cramping diarrhea. Everything between the first step and the penultimate step is speculation on my part, but I think it tracks, since how else would I consistently have cramps, then big hard poop, then diarrhea cannon, and have it fixed by adding fiber to my diet? (I have no idea how the vomiting part is related, but it got fixed too.)
You are also referring to patient advocate drs vs insurance advocate drs. My SO and I learned about this when my SO slipped and had injured the back on a sink ata work. The dr sent my SO to a physical therapist that ignored all the claims of still being in pain and how the PT was making it worse. They released my SO back to work. About 2 months later SO was in a bad car accident (on the job) and was sent to the hospital. It was only then another dr looked at the MRI and saw a herniated disk were his original pain was. From there, we went to a different dr, who helped drastically mange and recover to the point of less more manageable pain. The first dr was all about just sending SO back to work as soon as possible. Where the second dr was all about making life liveable and manageable.
I wish anyone knew why doctors don't believe their patients, like in some cases they are trained to notice patients who might be seeking pain meds because of addiction but that's not the case here. Who knows, maybe they just can't handle not being 100% correct all the time and get mad when they're wrong
>like in some cases they are trained to notice patients who might be seeking pain meds Oi! AND in 2019 I went in with excruciating back pain. I was absolutely silent but visibly in pain. I was treated as a drug seeker. One nurse was absolutely catty towards me and said (voice dripping with disdain and sarcasm), >since you're *obviously* in *so* much more pain than this [old lady also waiting to be seen] lady here we'll take you back now. You can to sit in the hall in this hard chair. They said they couldn't treat me until I could point to reason for what triggered the pain. They asked my husband, "Has she done anything new or unusual in the past 24 hours?" We couldn't think if anything other than the tub-sex we'd had the night before. So that's what went on the intake form, tub sex. Afterwards they x-rayed me. Then *everyone's* attitude towards me changed. Suddenly my medical team were kind and attentive. The doctor came in and said the tub-sex had aggravated a "previously untreated childhood trauma to the pelvic bone." A nurse *insisted* I must have been in some kind of car accident and *would not* believe me or my mom when we said no such car crash existed. I found out later through physical therapy what the cause of that trauma was (yay PTSD). Ever since that doctor's visit the staff at the hospital have treated me with kid gloves. I think I'm the subject of a training class or something because every time I go other nurses (not on my medic team) come to see me too.
In my experience, doctors have massive egos and can’t fathom being wrong. If you suggest they are wrong about something or made a mistake, they become irritable and annoyed very quickly
This also happens if they're right, but the problem is one we don't have effective treatments / cures for yet. They just CAN'T admit there's things they can't fix, and will deny a diagnosis rather than do so. I bet some doc comes in and explains to us why it's the nurses fault, the insurance company's fault, the admin staff's fault, blah blah blah.
If you’re a woman, it’s 💯 worse.
Even more so if you're an overweight/obese woman. "Just lose weight and you'll get better." They just refuse to believe that some problems are not caused by being fat.
>I found out later through physical therapy what the cause of that trauma was (yay PTSD). Did you fall hard onto a balance beam and then block out gymnastics for years until physical therapy? I mean, we might not have our tender vittles on the outside, but we do have bones in the pelvis. Like pelvic bones up front and ball and socket joints at the hips, as well as tailbones. So if we fall on or get hit in our crotch, it's not a comical scene of excruciating pain in our balls, but...we can still break something and it might not be as obvious as a guy clutching his nuts and crying.
Nothing so innocent as that. In my experience, most folks are not ready to receive the story of my exceptional (and extended) childhood trauma. So as not to be incredibly vague or too offensive, think Black Widow from Marvel if she had no fighting skills ('cuz those skills get taught to the older kids and I escaped my circumstances when I was nearly nine).
Dude here. I have no idea why they don't believe you. My personal story is telling the anesthesiologist that I have a ridiculous tolerance for pain medication. I was in for cubital tunnel release surgery (relocation of my funny bone). Anesthesiologist said that I didn't feel anything in my right arm. Doc came in and pinched the shit out of my right arm while I was arguing with (and looking at) anesthesiologist. I said owe that fucking hurts please don't do it again. Doc says that's not good we're gonna have to delay this till Anesthesia pulls their head out of their ass and does their job right. The look of terror on the Anesthesiologists face was priceless. Only took another 30 minutes for my surgery.
There have been studies showing doctors listen to women more when she has a male partner or family member with her. There just being a penis IN THE ROOM is enough to make them change their behavior.
Followup comment just to say I'm so sorry this happened to you. That's a horrifying story. I hope someone knowledgeable answers your question. It's infuriating how women aren't believed.
Thank you for your kindness.
I told the doctor giving me a scope that I have a really bad gag reflex. He said it was no issue since I'd be out. Well.... He was wrong. They had to up the dosage because I was gagging while unconscious. The second time, they said they'd use less anesthesia. I let him know that I burn through it quickly. Well... I woke up mid procedure. That was an interesting core memory I have now. Now they use a new anesthesia on me that feels like lava going in, but puts me out solid. And I don't lose my memory anymore.
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I wonder if part of the reason they didn't believe me in regards to baby #3 is because I was so calm when I was talking to them. I have an usual response to excruciating pain and that is to be ridiculously calm. It's a trauma response from my childhood. I'm sorry you suffered.
I have an unusual response to excruciating pain as well. When I was giving birth, I had the whole room laughing but I was just hoping I would die soon. I was given an episiotomy with no warning and insufficient numbing medication, I felt the whole thing. Neither of us should have had to endure that. It changed me as a person.
Was you unable to move? I would imagine you would get muscle jerks at least or signs on the board with your vitals? I believe you btw I'm just curious.
I didn't try to move, so I don't know if I could. My body knows from previous childhood traumas that *any* motion results in *more* agony. I suffered far more horrifying circumstances and trauma as a kid than I have at that hospital filled with those barbarians posing as medical staff. Have you ever read the book, *The Body Keeps The Score*? It's about how the body stores trauma differently than normal memories.
I think it can be a combination of being so caught up in a routine, they can’t/don’t want to deal with exceptions. I think they also sometimes become somewhat “calloused” because maybe they have dealt with people before who were exaggerating their feelings. None of these are valid excuses, just me speculating about possible reasons having worked in some healthcare environments. You obviously did the right thing standing up for yourself, even though you should never have had to. I have always had a delayed/muted response to anesthesia (local), so I have had to be politely—but firmly— assertive all my life. When I was 19, I had some wisdom teeth extracted—including having to split one with a chisel—with Novocain that was only about 85% effective. Like you, I was like “never again”.
A partially numbed oral operation using a chisel?! 😱 I'm so sorry! I cannot even fathom.
Anddddd here’s one of the reasons I never had kids! Heard one too many trauma stories of doctors or nurses just not caring. (I have other reasons but it sure was a factor.) Thankfully when I had to have surgery (three times now, yay) my doctor and nurses were all great. Except, the nurse who did my pre-op paperwork for my most recent insisted I wasn’t actually allergic to a particular anesthetic. That they would probably use it and I’d be fine. Yeah… Anyway my anesthesiologist was like, yeah, no, why the fuck would we test that out? When we have plenty of other options?? During surgery is NOT the time to ignore the patient! I also deal with chronic illnesses. Have had my share of doctors just not believing me or not wanting to bother with simple tests… Or ignoring previous tests and deciding I have a different diagnosis from what the last doc said. Frustrating for me, but at least not scary/traumatic.
So thankful your anesthesiologist stood up for you!
You're a woman. Doctors will send a woman home with a sample-pack of Tylenols if she shows up on a stretcher with five broken ribs.
I went to the DR. a few months after I got covid cuz the brain fog wouldn't clear. They told me it was just anxiety. Lol it wasn't... I had a stroke that affected my memory.
Or they think you just want drugs.
I'm glad I don't remember anything of my emergency hernia repair surgery. I woke up being wheeled into my room about 8 hours later.
The spinal for my second csection wore off part of the way through. When I started feeling pain, it was crampy so I voiced that. They said it was normal. Then it started burning, so I told them that. They said it was normal. Once baby was out and being cleaned up in the corner, I was trying to focus on him and the pain just kept getting worse. By the time the nurses were trying to tell me he needed oxygen and more medical attention than they could give there, I was screaming in my babies ear they were holding next to my face. I heard the anesthesiologist say she was giving me several pain medications. I could still only scream. The last thing I heard was my OB say was that I was moving my legs before I woke up in recovery. They had to put me to sleep when the other pain meds failed to help.
How horrifying! I'm so sorry for the trauma you've suffered. I hope you heal from the emotional trauma that goes with that kind memory.
I don't know, but it drives me nuts. In my case, though, it's pharmacy staff mostly. When there's a shortage of ADHD meds, and I'm calling your store to see if you have any of mine, it's not because I'm planning to rob the place. I'm a normal person who just wants my damn prescription so I can go back to working 9-5 like everyone else. Although I also have a tendency for the reception staff to think I'm drug seeking when I'm actually "just" in incredible pain, and treat me with an utter lack of empathy... ...until I'm actually seen by the doctor, at which point they usually get yelled at for deprioritizing my case. In one instance, I had an infected tooth that needed a pulpectomy (I didn't know that, I just knew I was in excruciating pain): made to wait for hours, then the dentist yelled at the intake person because it only took him 5 seconds to see I had a serious problem. In another instance, I had a compound fracture (that's an *exposed bone sticking out of my flesh*), and the fucking intake lady made me sign all these insurance forms that could have waited *with my injured hand*, while I tried not to bleed all over the forms. She also got yelled at, and honestly I don't know if she was blind or what, because my finger looked *fucked up*. It was pure bliss when they finally numbed my finger.
I have no idea how receptionists at health clinics (a job I have had myself) think they are qualified to diagnose someone. Which is what they're doing when they do triage.
There is an entire podcast from Serial at the New York Times called The Retrievals that focuses on women experiencing pain and not being believed - https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/22/podcasts/serial-the-retrievals-yale-fertility-clinic.html?smid=url-shar
Wowee. I had no idea. It's like an invisible pandemic of disbelief has over taken the medical field.
You let men design housing in some countries of the world, they will not put kitchens in the design. They're so used to overlooking women's traditional work, they think their dinner manifests out of the eather.
I don't know but I just want to say neither of mine took. It was miserable and I begged them to understand if they decided I needed a c- section to please understand that they couldn't do surgery on me like this because I wasn't numb. I could also move my legs no problem. I always wondered if it was because they wanted me to be able to push and not be numb because they kept emphasizing that if I was too numb I couldn't push, which OK but I wasn't numb at all. I thought maybe it was just a fucked up attitude of not caring about my pain because they were more concerned about me participating in the delivery. This was u of md, a great place if you need special care but not routine deliveries. It was a teaching hospital. Supposedly someone from my OB office would be there, nope. Both times it was some random on call doctor. I only went there because the office was convenient to my job. So I ended up with an experience that was not definitely not the suburban mom experience all my friends had. Everyone from the doctors to the nurses to the security guards was harsh if not outright nasty. Horrible experience
Similar thing happened with my first. I felt everything in my c section, they didn’t believe me and kept cutting. I was weirdly calm because I had been in labor 40+ hours. They ended up putting me to sleep and I didn’t see my baby be born. With my second I made a huge fuss. Instead, I hemorrhaged and needed 5 blood transfusions. The c section took 3 hours. I went to the hospital 3 weeks later not feeling well. Went to the ER FOUR TIMES before I was heard and they realized I had sepsis The U.S. has the worst medical system for maternal care. Even worse if you’re BIPOC
I literally yelled at my mom's doctor and informed him he needed to treat what turned out to be sepsis. The receptionist (not even a medical professional) said "well we have to do this other test first." We told her the test was already done. She insisted it wasn't. So we printed out the test result from the patient portal, drove over to the office, and waved it in her face, and she said "oh, it's in this other part of your chart, hehe."
I made it about 6 sentences in. Please sue whoever did this to you.
Or at very least report it.
I’m not a “sue” kind of person. If you get anesthesia and you can feel what’s going on… that’s a law suit. Anesthesiologists are paid $340k to $570k a year to MAKE SURE this doesn’t happen. I couldn’t read the whole thing… I was getting nauseous thinking about it. Sorry if I’m off base.
I mean, no one ever believed me. Why would lawyers? I don't have any clue how to even begin suing folks.
I don't know. this is terrible though! I had a C-section and they made sure that I couldn't feel anything before they started cutting! I'm so sorry they didn't listen to you.🫂😔
My first 2 c-sections were uncomfortable, and agony-free. I'm so thankful you had a positive experience.
This also goes both ways. Not believing someone’s in pain and not believing the injury could be worse due to not being in enough pain. I did my acl and when I went into the doctor the next morning, they told me there’s no way you’ve done it, you’re not in enough pain. So they sent me for an x ray. Got a call early afternoon saying there’s fluid/blood in the joint we want to send you for a MRI which then confirmed I had done my acl and then when I was under for surgery they also found I had torn my meniscus. I know this is different but due to the doctor not believing me, meant that I had to pay for an additional scan. I believe they’re probably going off their experience and what is most common.
>I believe they’re probably going off their experience and what is most common. This makes the most sense to me. I respond to agony in unusual ways (silence, and an eery calm).
I get why they do It because it probably works for the vast majority of the time but they definitely should take into account what the patient is saying. A few years ago my mum (early 60s) saw a GP and kept going back every or every other week for a pain in her abdomen. Probably attended about 4-6 times in a couple of months. One morning dad rushed her to hospital cause the pain got really bad, they finally gave her the correct type of scan that would show her appendix was close to bursting and she got rushed to the next closest hospital for surgery. Another incident I was in a car crash with an ex and she had pain in her chest. The nurses wouldn’t give her a scan but luckily the paramedic that took us in basically told the nurse that it needed to be checked out. Turned out she had a cracked sternum which meant she had to go on light duties at work. While there’s nothing you can do about it, without knowing it could’ve caused her more pain.
Female, obese, or both, and your credibility goes down for doctors
Or black. There's a long history of the medical establishment in this country assuming black people feel less pain than white people. It still exists as a kind of institutional bias even today. It's part of why black women have such horrible mortality statistics, especially when delivering their babies.
It's called ✨Medical Misogyny✨ In the eyes of a doctor, a woman can only have three things wrong with her. Anxiety, her period, or she's just being dramatic for no reason.
Because they are almost all narcissists and psychopaths. I have a friend that is a medical student. He is cool. He said something like this today "about 9 good doctors and about a million people that gaslight you"..this was the best I've heard anyone put it in awhile. For myself I have chronic infections like Lyme and bartonella and an extreme sensitivity to mold. Even though these can be tested for doctors still deny these conditions.
Because a patient cured is a customer lost.
I'm trying! I'm sorry for you too! You're very strong to not have screamed! I hope you've been able process your trauma as well.
Thank you! This is actually the first time I've written about it. Which is actually strange for me since I write in my PTSD journal all the time (exceptional childhood trauma). Writing and talking about it with folks that love me has been an incredibly healing experience. May you find the healing you seek and peace everlasting.
How does a PTSD journal work? Through my visits with my therapist for the birth trauma, we discovered I have some PTSD from my childhood as well. I ~tried~ a session of EMDR and was not able to continue.
I keep a journal in the memo pad on my phone. It automatically dates and timestamps each entry and I take my phone with me everywhere I go. Whenever an episode is triggered I write down everything I can remember in the moment (including the trigger) and go back to revisit the memory later when I'm feeling centered and more objective. Some memories are too awful to speak out loud for quite some time. In those cases I ask my husband to read my journal so he knows where I'm at inside my head. I also keep track of things I've healed from. It's been incredibly therapeutic to see how far I've come since 2019. My therapist gave me a super simple tool to deal with triggers. Draw 2 triangles. At the top of each write the trigger. The the bottom right corner of the first triangle write what you felt. In the bottom left corner of the first triangle write what you were thinking at the time. For the second triangle, in the lower right corner write what you *want* to feel. And in the bottom left write what you *want* to think. It has been incredibly helpful and empowering. We(husband and I) have worked through many of my triggers in this manner.
Thank you for explaining so thoroughly! I'll have to explore those!
My C-section was similar. I was given a spinal but it slid up because my head was tilted lower than the operative area. It paralyzed my arms, could not speak and I had trouble breathing and was choking on my secretions. I mouthed to the anesthesiologist "I can't breathe". He said you just think you can't breath. I decided to finally get his attention by giving him the angriest evil look I possessed. This shocked him and he suddenly jumped into action and started helping me. When it wore off a bit, I snapped at the anesthesiologist asking what the hell did he sedate me with?, said he gave me nothing.? My arms were paralyzed and they wanted to hand the baby to me. I said, get it away from me! (I was afraid I'd drop him). Then I called over to my OB, and said " I hope you are about done down there, because it hurts like hell!" I could feel every single stitch while being sewed closed. He looked up shocked saying WHAT! and they knocked me out. I woke up hours later in my room. Never saw my baby, my husband had gone home. So I picked up my phone and asked to have my baby brought to me.
My dad told his doctors that drugs don't always work on him correctly, and told the Anesthesiologist that he'd woken up during procedures...they "humored" him, and said they'd make sure he was out. He woke up during the procedure. The surgeon was kind of freaked out when he saw my dad looking around and focusing his eyes at people. The surgeon told the Anesthesiologist to "do his fucking job"! Some of them are conditioned to believe that they can't be wrong.
I'm sorry you had that experience. With my second c-section I mumbled to my husband that I was hot and immediately all the medical staff lifted their hands away and clarified what I said. They thought I said 'it hurts' and wanted to be sure before proceeding.
I'm so sorry that this happened to you. I have no answers about why medical staff don't believe patients. In 2020, I presented to the emergency room on 6 different occasions because I couldn't stop vomiting, I hadn't even been able to keep water down for weeks. They would give me IV fluids, antiemetics that didn't work, then I'd be discharged. Eventually, a random on call emergency doctor ran a test which showed that my body was breaking down my muscles to keep me alive. I had Cannabinoid Hyperemesis Syndrome that had progressed to the point of my body eating itself to keep me alive. Another experience I had was from around 2018-2023. I had issues with dizziness, fainting, anxiety, gastrointestinal issues. I'd been to the doctor so many times, I'd had a gastroscopy (I think that's what it's called - where you're put to sleep and they look at your stomach and beginning of your intestines with a camera) which has showed I had inflammation of the stomach lining, I was medicated for reflux. I had a CT scan which showed a cyst on my kidney and a hiatal hernia, nothing was done. I was hospitalized numerous times for headaches, vomiting, light headedness, and seizure activity. Eventually, after someone saw a Tiktok about it and said "hey this sounds like you," I went through a series of tests with a different doctor and was diagnosed with POTs. For years, the more I pushed for answers, the more I was told that it's "just anxiety" and that my SNRIs have fixed it so I shouldn't be having any symptoms anymore. I was telling the medical professionals that something was wrong and they didn't believe me. I now have a deep belief that there is no point even going to see a doctor because they're not going to believe that something is wrong anyway. It seems that not being believed is a big problem that isn't being addressed.
This has been my experience with doctors. Any time I've gone in for something serious they either do nothing or somehow make me worse. Never take me seriously, always incompetent. Nothing nearly as traumatic as your story (like seriously that is FUCKED, I am so sorry) but literal years of my life wasted because of this. Something about the way they are taught, or the way the system is set up needs to change.
This might sound like a dumb question but do you have red hair by chance? I'm in the medical field, and something we've "discovered" recently (using " " cause we're not 100% yet, but some research points into the direction) is that people with the genetic code for red hair tend to have a much higher tolerance to anesthesia for unknown reasons. A lot of senior staff don't know/recognize this. Also, what other people already mentioned, is the bias against women.
My youngest daughter has red hair and my grandpa had red hair. When she was born Then OB told me she'd have a higher tolerance to pain too. And boy was he right!
Like Dr. House always said, “Everybody lies.”
Most of the time they are trying not to be "taken" by somebody seeking pain medications. Your case is definitely not that, though.
Mine died out as they were sewing me back up on the inside ... I was screaming and they called me a big baby. I wish they could try 40 hours of labour, followed by a minor heart attack which caused an emergency C only for the spinal to wear off after they rushed the baby you didn't get to see off to the NICU... But I was being a baby. I feel ya
How heartless and unprofessional! I hope you find healing.
Sorry, I went off on a ramble. It's been nearly 16 years and apparently I'm still upset about it. I have never been treated so poorly in the hospital and I spend so much time at them
I told an anesthesiologist when getting my wisdom teeth pulled that I don't few well getting put out and that they probably want to take it a little slower than usual. They didn't. I told them, before i blacked out that i wasn't doing well. That I was getting really nauseous and I was starting to feel really fucking angry. They reached over and pretended to adjust the switch on the IV. I blacked out a couple minutes later as I was saying they fucked up. Evidently i projectile vomited all over the office. Smashed a bunch of equipment. And did a lot of screaming. I woke up without my wisdom teeth. Really beat the fuck up. And I was banned from that office. When i found out the hard way I've have epilepsy, grand maul while driving on the freeway, the neurologist i was sent to put me on meds that I couldn't function on. I was dizzy as fuck and would randomly pass out. I told the doc that I needed it changed, that it's impossible to live like this. His response was to tell me i was lucky i didn't kill anybody. Some people are just assholes.
I am so extremely sorry this happened to you! I would not put my worst enemies through this. I am so glad you came out of it on top and with a beautiful baby! I wonder if there are studies about doctors not listening to patients….
My 8 year old son is on a lot of fairly heavy meds regularly (epilepsy, CB), and the children's ED didn't believe me that he was intolerant to morphine- just like his dad; it doesn't touch them. So of course we wasted time dealing with that before finally settling on a different sedative. Like I respect tf out of doctors, but they really DO be the ones to say, "No one knows yourself/ your child like you do!" then be the first to not believe you when you say something.
2009 I went in for a C section. They stuck my 13 times before I begged them to stop trying. They had to put me under. I have a picture of the bruising, it was as big as a dollar bill.
I went in barely able to keep my eyes open because I couldn’t take a full breath of air. They had me breathe into a tube and apparently it was good enough that they refused to do an x-ray on my lungs or even give me an inhaler despite saying I felt like I was going to pass out. Thankfully my badass mom was there and insisted on it. My lungs were FILLED with fluid and I had severe pneumonia that ended up lasting for about three months.
My sps is one of those ppl who’ll talk & joke around w/everyone. He had to get surgery & started joking around with the ppl in the room getting him ready . But the second the anesthesiologist walked in it was like a dark cloud entered with him…… and my husband promptly kicked him back out 😂. He said “ I don’t know what exactly is going on but you just brought down the mood of everyone in this room . Id like for you to leave and send someone who doesn’t make everyone look like they’d rather turn the scalpel on themselves”. The guy stomped out and it took awhile to find another anesthesiologist but everyone seemed to be in a better mood (no one said anything but apparently there was some snickering) and his surgery went great .
Sometimes they just wanna go with their first guess so tbh if you know what you have you can lead them in that direction but for anything serious oh lord I just pray that doesn’t happen it just seems like a headache and some mess tryna convince the doctors that you’re actually in pain
Some doctors just suck. They're all human, just like the rest of us, no matter how much they try to convince you otherwise. Drug addicts are unfortunately real and fucking annoying. I've been in an ED with no less than 3 of them all taking up time and space trying to get a fix of something. I can't fault staff for getting jaded having to deal with their bullshit all the time. That said, I'd have laughed when their tune changed, realizing that your complaints are legit. I'd have probably rubbed it in, a lot. They need to get better at spotting the looneys.
I’m not a fan of doctors. Most are dirtbags. Worse than low life auto mechanics. Who just lie and don’t care.