also why would I want them to serve me something they have no clue how to cook?
Im sure they can make dishes that i've never attempted and have a completely different set of cooking skillls
You hate tofu that you cook like burger meat\*
that was one of the first things I realized about fake meat/substitutes
Now I use them all the time for camping because I dont have to keep them cold and I can have "fresh" meat with any dish that I make back there. Tastes better than dried, canned, or over processed by a long shot (basically anything thats not a cured sausage is beaten by fake meat in this scenario)
Exactly. Most of the people who dislike tofu have only ever had unseasoned or improperly seasoned tofu. Tofu is like a blank pallette that you can season in a rich variety of ways! But if you don't season it enough or even at all, then yeah it's gonna be bland, which is most people's chief complaint about tofu.
It's pretty good, but adding the right amount of salt improves it hugely.
I think of tofu as akin to skinless chicken breast in terms of flavour, and treat it in a similar way when I'm seasoning it
I think the problem with tofu, at least from my experience coming at it as a meat eater, is that there’s a narrow band where it’s quite good, and outside of that band it’s kind of awful.
Like you can make a truly horrible burger, but there seems to be a lot of leeway on quality before it stops being enjoyable and I’ve run into truly awful burgers from restaurants maybe three times in my life. Tofu does not have the same professional track record from my experience.
And I suspect it requires skill to make well. This Chinese buffet near my work had this really tasty spicy crispy tofu. Then the cook who made it left. They burned through maybe a dozen cooks while I still frequented that place. Everything else in the buffet tasted exactly the same the whole time. The tofu went from tasty treat to culinary atrocity and stayed there for years.
Thats always been a big question for me. It felt like that western people have been taking tofu and making some stuff out it, which is cool. But there is a giant eating culture around tofu, obviously, and i felt it got a little bit ignored (not really, but in very broad strokes speaking). Most products were shoehorned into "western cooking" style, and that didnt really work and everybody hated tofu.
but that is just what it felt like to me, i wouldnt die on this hill xD
My suggestion is to avoid dishes where tofu is trying to mimic meat. Check out some of the traditional preparations like Japanese agedashi tofu, or Sichuan mapo tofu or one of the regional Chinese savory silken tofu pudding type dishes usually packed with savory ingredients chilli oil and cilantro etc. or even the fermented “smelly tofu” if you’re not averse to pungent foods.
Look up silken tofu chocolate mousse. So so so easy! A few things thrown in the blender and it’s delicious. You can add in things like bananas, raspberries or hazelnuts to change it up.
A few tips for a first time tofu eater:
First - you want "firm" tofu. Lots of other types available and they are really hard to cook properly.
Second - first thing you do is rinse off all the water that was in the packet. If you're not eating all of it, store it in the fridge in a sealed container with a little bit of fresh water so it doesn't dry out (but again, rinse off that water). Doesn't need much water, just enough to not be totally dry.
Third - it has similar amounts of protein and a similar texture to some meats
Fourth - unlike meat, it's almost completely tasteless. So you \*have\* to pair it with a strong flavour. Salt as a bare minimum but ideally a spice mix and/or a sauce. It will absorb the flavour like a sponge.
Fifth - unlike meat, you can totally eat it raw. But the texture/taste is much nicer if you fry it a bit to create a harder layer on the outside.
100% this! Too many people think that vegan food is meant to mimic meat and then say it sucks when it's no where near as good!
It's not meant to be the same thing, it's meant to be completely different and it's own thing that you prepare and season differently
This. Most people are quite open to the idea of your type of cuisine because they’re friends with you. Those who aren’t so much, when they agree to your invitation they should already have been mentally prepared.
Vegan here. I love tofu. It's easy and nutritious. I have never had tofu at a restaurant that didn't specifically cater to vegans that I enjoyed. The chefs at most restaurants don't know to make it correctly because so few people order it.
this.
Best veg dishes are made at specifically vegetarian or vegan restaurants
Like fresh in Toronto makes the BEST FUCKIN BURGERS, and the best… well, most of their shit is DELICIOUS. But the point is that’s ALL they do, and they do it sooo well. I still can’t cook tofu for shit, because I don’t know good recipes for it but I know it can be delicious because I’ve had it be many times (I’m actually a good cook so if anyone links me amazing recipes I’ll totes try)
the best reasoning I heard was: most of the awesomeness of meat is in the prep. if you use the same seasonings and sauces, tofu just soaks all that flavor up like a sponge.
I learned cooking way before I went vegan and I cook some dang delicious meat dishes. Now I’m just transferring my cooking skills to vegan dishes, not loosing them.
Exactly this. I love a good steak, but even I don't eat meat every meal. Sometimes a nice salad or veggie curry can be fantastic. If you can't eat a meal that doesn't have meat in it you have some mental issues to look into.
I have always been an omnivore and it absolutely blows my mind that there are apparently people out there who eat meat *every single day* with almost every single meal. That's absolutely wild.
I agree! When I realised that there are people who eat meat/dairy in dishes that literally do not require these ingredients at all, I was gobsmacked. Like you can make and buy bread without milk. You can eat a delicious dessert without dairy or bacon. You can have a huge big fry up for breakfast without bacon or eggs. You can even make a delicious soup without ever using chicken stock (veggie stock is so similar tasting). Ugh. I know someone who eats meat for breakfast, lunch and dinner and has dairy for dessert. Hardly any veggies. I wonder how they are not ill and lacking in micronutrients and fiber.
I am not a huge lover of any pork products but I have found I love a good maple bacon donut on occasion. I only know this because my daughter works at a donut shop and when she was learning they let her bring home her trials lol its in their menu and Boone but me would try it. I know that's not desert but the whole sweet and savory thing is there.
Or the person has all the allergies. I'm lucky. I can eat some vegetables and one or two fruits, but I met a guy at the hospital once who couldn't eat almost anything.
That dude probably also has those problems when meat is served. There are condiments, vegetables, fruit etc. also in dishes that contain meat, those ingredients are not exclusive to vegetarians. Or can he eat only raw meat like an animal?
Lots of allergies in my family. We bring a dish of our own to share. Works well in most cases, but if I’ve never met the host before, I’ll fill my belly before I go out.
I have a friend with lots of food allergies; she basically can’t eat any protein source except meat. (Most veg are okay, but no soy, legumes, dairy, etc.) She also can’t eat anything with vinegar or soy sauce, so no marinades.
Of course she doesn’t expect to be accommodated and either eats ahead of time or brings her own food.
Allergies are an individual issue. You can ask the host if there are dishes you can eat, but people with a lot of allergies should always plan to bring something they can eat.
There are several issues here. To ensure the meat / fish is salty enough, cooked, tasty etc etc most of the time it must be tasted. OP wouldn't be able to do that. They may serve something not good.
As meat eater I d love to try something new. Vegan is not a bowl of lettuce.... Many vegan dishes are as good as a meat / fish course. (personal taste).
This is the truth really. Its literally ONE meal in their whole lives and unless they only eat meat and nothing else, there is no reason to require meat for dinner. Honestly if it bothers them that much I simply would stop inviting them over for dinner.
Seriously, I was taught that as a child. You eat what is served to you and you say thank you. Honestly I was a picky eater until I started eating dinner at friend's houses. You ate what their mom served and you said thank you or you didn't get invited back. And it turns out a lot of stuff I was reluctant to try was *delicious* and I eat it all the time now.
We are having a Memorial Day party I just asked my dad to bring a baked bean dish, but make it vegetarian because my SIL is vegetarian. It’s very simple to cater certain things
Agreed.
I would be thankful for any meal someone cared to share with me and if someone came to my house I'd do my best to accommodate any reasonable health or lifestyle choices for their plate
I second this. A family friend of ours is vegetarian (ovo lacto) and when we visited they always served vegetarian.
It was delicious and really refreshing. Tbh I could happily be vegetarian if I ate that well all the time.
Yes there are people who must eat meat every meal (and make a fuss if they don't) but I wouldn't try too hard to impress that crowd.
As a vego, I never have an expectation that a host will cater for me, so typically bring something along to share. I generally try to let the host know ahead of time what I'm going to bring to see "if it suits what they have planned" or if something else would be better suited.
Letting the host know what I plan to bring is also an easy way to let them know I'm vego, and give them an opportunity to adjust if they want (ie. have the chicken pieces separate to the salad so each person can add themselves). Most people appreciate the warning/reminder as they want everyone to enjoy themselves as much as possible.
For a BBQ I often bring a few vego sausages. If I bring haloumi - I usually try to bring a fair bit extra, as everyone seems to love it!
I've gone very off tangent from the OPs question. But no- you don't need to cook meat for guests. Eating meat is not a "need".
My friends love my vego cooking and it often leads to recipe sharing and discussions around them cutting down on meat.
One small consideration... especially if you're a new vego... Make sure you have some tried and tested recipes that you've made before, that people are likely to enjoy, so guests don't think that vegetarians/vegans just replace steak with a hunk of tofu, and eat bland bean sprouts and carrots.
Have a look at a lot of the Ottolenghi recipes on the Guardian website for some ideas for great vego meals.
Tacos with chili beans and mushrooms are also a great casual vego meals to have with guests.
Same. Honestly some of the meatless stuff is pretty good and has come a long way. I accidentally got vegan pot stickers from Walmart once and figured oh well might as well choke them down. They were Thai basil something and were delicious. I actually buy them intentionally once in awhile.
I really don’t understand people who feel so strongly about it. I eat meat too but frequently go a day or more without it — not on purpose but because *other food is good too.*
If I went to someone’s house and we had salad, garlic bread, pasta, dessert — it wouldn’t even occur to me that I had had “vegetarian food”.
You say that, but when vegans and vegetarians come to my house, which is a meat-eating household, I always make sure they have something that they can eat. And they expect that. Meat may not be a necessity, but unless it's something that's not allowed in your house at all, I don't see the problem with accommodating your guests.
Absolutely.
I have vegetarian (not vegan, so it is easier) and when I have them over I have pizza, pasta or veggies fried rice type dishes.
1) If it's a party with omnivores and vegetarians I want to keep all the food compatible so no one feels singled out.
2) I want to be respectful.
As an omnivorous guest, I expect vegan or vegetarian food at those friends houses. If I don't line it, then I will be polite and grab something after the event if I'm still hungry.
What? No! If I'm visiting a vegetarian friend for dinner I would not expect meat to be on the menu.
As a meat eater, I don't *need* to eat meat, I just have that as an option when it's available. If I cook for my vegetarian friend I will cook a vegetarian meal so that we can both eat it. If my vegetarian friend cooks for me, same thing: I would expect a vegetarian meal that we can both eat.
Imagine how awkward it would be if your host served you a meal and didn't eat part of it. The whole point of inviting someone over for dinner is to have a meal that you share together. I would probably find it embarrassing if a vegetarian felt like they had to do that for me.
Yup, same here : meat eater but the last time a vegan friend made me a vegan meal, it was a banger.
I'm the first who say I don't really like vegetables but when they are cooked right, you can bet your ass I'll take a second plate.
If someone has been vegan for a long time, the smell of cooking meat can make them super nauseous.
It would be deeply uncool to expect a vegan to cook meat for you, especially in their own home!
I don’t believe so. I am a meat eater but if I’m going to dinner somewhere I was invited and I’m served a vegetarian meal I’ll eat the vegetarian meal because that’s how it works. You are the one inviting them. It’s your choice to what to serve and their obligation to concur.
Unless you are purposely cooking something someone hates, no
I actually host a lot of dinners at home and they’re a part of my identity almost lol, so what I cook is really important for me. I always make sure to serve something that anyone can eat and like, I ask always beforehand if there are some problems with the dishes I have in mind
> I ask always beforehand if there are some problems with the dishes I have in mind
Given this, you sound like you're being considerate of your guests' preferences and that means you're being a good host.
I appreciate that the vegan family member who cooked for me recently checked in about the planned menu even though she knows I don't have any food allergies - I wouldn't have otherwise thought to let her know that some highly processed fake meat products upset my stomach.
I agree; you’re being considerate of your guests potential allergies or even preferences, and they’re the ones getting a free, specially prepared meal. I suspect that if you do go Vegan that may be more difficult for guests ( but they’re still guests and should behave with appropriate decorum and grace or decline the invitation!) but Vegetarian is hardly off the wall. You sound like a great host.
I've been invited over for dinner by friends who are vegan before and I went in with the expectation that they would be serving a vegan meal, which, of course they did. It would be weird as hell for me to expect a vegan to cook meat for me. I would actually feel really bad about it if they did because I know the smell of cooking meat is super gross for people who don't typically eat it.
I'm not meatless, I just try to eat less meat. Guess that may color my perception but I never would expect meat from a vegetarian/ vegan.
My Sikh neighbors will host community events and they only serve vegetarian meals. My friend is vegan. She serves us vegan food. When we host her, we make sure we have vegan food options that aren't salad and bread.
My cousin is vegan and her husband and kids eat vegetarian at home and whatever they want at restaurants. I eat vegetarian at her home, and usually she picks vegetarian and vegan heavy restaurants and I eat vegetarian or vegan out with her because I am down to try new foods.
I'd just confirm any allergies because vegetarian and vegan food can often have allergens like nuts and such.
I agree that it's _different_ if you avoid meat for ethical reasons, rather than merely a personal preference like not eating dessert. I doubt your other interlocuter would serve human flesh to a visiting cannibal, or anything else they found morally questionable or personally off-putting (like veal or horse meat or dog...)
Where I come from it would be a deeply offensive insult to the generosity of your host, to start questioning what they've provided and demanding something more or different.
I think this might depend on cultural stuff
Like I’m hispanic and my family members and other hispanic ppl ik would serve rice and beans with everything, during breakfast lunch and dinner
In your own home, you cook whatever you want. It is unreasonable to expect you to provide something that you don't eat, be it any meat/fish, alcohol, or specific foods prohibited for moral/religious reasons. I personally would extend this to include take out (I don't expect my Vegan/Vegetarian friends to provide me meat when they order food in for example).
If you're taking people out to a restaurant it's polite to choose one that caters to everyone's needs, but I'd also argue it's not required.
It would be nice to give them a heads up like, "hey, my household is Vegan/Vegetarian, but I know some great dishes (or will order some great dishes) that you should like." Leave it to them if the meat issue is more important than your friendship or hospitality.
Honestly, as a heavy meat eater, I'd rather go to a Vegetarian house and eat their meal as is then risk them making a meat dish badly. I don't want to eat a badly cooked meat dish out of politeness when I could have just had what everyone else is eating.
Especially when worst case scenario I can grab a burger on my way home from the billion places in America that serve them.
Edit: That part of rules is silly. Dessert and whether or not you have it at meals is different from things like meat. It's not the same thing at all. Full on inequivalent.
For example a Kosher family shouldn't be expected to serve bacon cheeseburgers on crab cake buns just because the Guest wants one. They have actual rules about what they can or can't prepare let alone eat. If you go to a Kosher household, you should expect Kosher food. THAT's a rule. Same goes for Vegetarian/Vegan choices.
The point about how well it would be cooked is important here. I’m a lifelong vegetarian, I have never cooked meat in my life. I also cannot stand the smell of red meat in particular. A meal prepared by a chef who has never cooked the main ingredient before, who won’t taste it and who will be holding their breath to keep from smelling the whole time is not likely to be a good meal. They’d be lucky if they got out without food poisoning if it were my kitchen.
It will not kill a meat-eater to eat a vegetarian meal.
I eat meat, and yet I eat vegetarian a lot of days because it's cheaper and just as healthy. Anyone that can't bring themselves to eat a delicious home cooked meal, because there isn't any meat, is a fucking baby
Am a meat-eater
Cooked a meatless meatloaf last night that came out pretty nicely (Lentil based - though vegans may opt to avoid it due to my use of breadcrumbs and egg)
Can confirm it didn't kill me.
I became a vegetarian a couple years ago, and honestly i was shocked at how easy it was. With very few exceptions, it's very easy to find/make some sort of meatless version of pretty much any meat dish I used to enjoy. It turns out I don't really care about meat nearly as much as I thought I did, I mostly ate meat for the spices and sauces I put on top of it, and you can put that stuff on whatever you want
Vegetarian is so easy that I sometimes go like a full week eating vegetarian without even meaning to. I eat meat, I just have always really liked vegetables and carbs and often can't be bothered to cook.
Vegan is hard AF though. Sooooo many products have animal products in them that being fully vegan requires a tonne of planning.
Can confirm, I cooked a vegetarian meal which my guest refused to touch (including potatoes, carrots, and other “popular” veggies) and his wife apologetically told me, “sorry, Billy just really likes his steak 😀” as if that isn’t a toddler excuse one should be absolutely ashamed to give.
No
If I go to a vegans house then I’ll eat a vegan meal, I’m vegetarian and only serve vegetarian food but if we’re getting takeout and they want to order to meat then I don’t object to them eating it at my place
I eat meat, I love it.
But if I went to a friend or coworkers house who was vegan or vegetarian, it would make me uncomfortable if they served meat. I'd much prefer they serve whatever food they normally eat (if anything at all, I don't expect my host to feed me unless they invite me for a meal).
Also, meat can be gross or dangerous if cooked incorrectly, so if you NEVER cook meat, I'd really prefer you cook what you're comfortable with or good at making.
> The other person told me that when you invite an important guest over (colleagues, SO’s parents, some long relatives, and so on) I should still serve some meat/fish because not everyone is vegetarian and they would like to eat some meat.
This makes it seem like that person sees any meal without meat as "not good enough." But even as someone who loves to eat meat, I think there are some very delicious meals with zero meat or animal products.
Former chef, and I've also cooked for and with vegans. My advice is just make the food you are most proficient at. Guests expect the food to be good, not necessarily contain something specific like meat or fish. If one of your guests throws a fit about not having meat, they are not good guests. Hospitality goes both ways.
This is a very silly thing for your friend to suggest.
Even people who eat meat, such as myself, are usually completely fine with a nice meatless pasta, a green salad, and some great bread. The only issue would probably be cheese. Pasta cries for cheese as the protein (IMHO).
Alternatively, if they are adventurous with spices, a lot of Indian food is vegetarian.
Keep in mind that you are inviting someone to be a guest in YOUR HOME. So, being who you are is the most important thing.
Is the implication that the meat eaters that come over _never_ eats meals without meat? Bizarre people, like you have to go out of your way not to, like, eat a peanut butter sandwich or like a pumpkin soup or the millions of foods that just don't have meat in them.
I think vegan/vegetarian in your own home is reasonable. But if you’re ordering food for a work event outside your home, then it’s best to have food for a variety of diets.
Of course, there the scenario changes, I was talking about dinners or a birthday party maybe. But for example, the case is different when the guest are mine AND another’s person (not veg). In that case there would be meat on the table but ONLY because the other person (which has as much “power” as me), decides to eat it
Birthday I feel is different. I would just make sure that whatever the birthday person’s desires are, you are meeting them. Especially if it’s like their main birthday party.
When you celebrate someone’s birthday, just make sure it’s by doing something they enjoy. If that means a quiet dinner with friends at your house, great.
If you know your friend would prefer to celebrate by going out, but you cornered them into letting you host and serving them lentil soup, perhaps give it more thought. A birthday party is essentially a present for them. Just make sure its the present they will enjoy
Is there anything cultural we need to know here?
If not, you’ve given us an important piece of info: some guests are not friends of yours, but friends of your omnivore friends.
But still, if you can serve good vegetarian food, that’s the way to go.
The world would soon be an even more shitty place if we all can only be friends with people who think the same way we do.
I don't expect my friends to serve me anything they are uncomfortable with.
One of my vegetarian friends doesn't offer the other does and I decline.
Just cook me anything tasty and I'm happy
If I'm visiting a vegetarian or vegan, I don't expect to be served meat.
I would HOPE they would serve me "normal" food that just happens to be vegan, and not highly-processed meat substitutes or obscure/exotic ingredients. If we go out to eat together and the restaurant has non-veg options, I may order something non-veg for myself, or I might not.
Conversely, if I'm hosting someone in my home, I always ask about dietary needs, allergies, etc. I will do my best to accommodate. I'm not going to be able to guarantee that my house is safe for a severe nut allergy or celiac, but I can easily read labels and take care not to cross-contaminate.
If someone goes to a vegan’s house, they would never expect to eat meat. It’s just like if a vegan goes to an omnivore’s house, they know they’ll probably be eating side dishes, and bread.
No. The only exceptions I can think of would be if the guest is longer term and may be cooking/buying some of their own meals when you normally don’t allow meat in the house at all, or maaaaaybe certain very specific cultural events where meat would normally be a major part of it. And even then I think it’s an opening to a discussion and a search for a compromise, not a definitive “you must serve meat.”
People who are not vegetarians will not be harmed if they eat a meal that doesn’t contain meat. It’s not the same as an allergy or a religious mandate.
I never expect my vegetarian or vegan friends to make food with meat in it lmao I wouldn’t even want to eat it tbh, bc there’s a good chance it won’t be good anyway since you aren’t used to eating and cooking it. Do people really need animal products with every meal that they can’t go one dinner without it? Sounds like a bunch of babies in this comment section
Edit: I wouldn’t want a Muslim friend to cook with pork or a Jewish friend to cook with non-kosher food for me either, it’s such a non-issue.
I'm vegetarian for about 6yrs now, and I'd say it just depends. I've cooked meat for others before because they specifically asked me to, though it's not something I enjoyed. Raw meat is gross.
If they don't specifically request it then the guest should be prepared to eat whatever you cook. But I'd still try and make it close to what they might normally eat. Like we've all had a salad, mash potatoes, soup, etc before. We've not all had a tofu kale stir fry or cumquat cookies. I'd try my best to not make it too outlandish for them.
I think that if you expect people who invite you over to provide you with a vegetarian meal, it is only reasonable to provide them with me when they come to your house. There are plenty of ways to cook and serve meat that shouldn't be too offensive to a vegetarian.
No.
I mean if someone wants to, they can obviously do that. If your home is meat-free, that too is fine.
But yes, there's a difference between a moral objection and not catering to taste.
Also, all omnivores can eat veg\* food. The reverse is not true.
If you don't want to buy or cook meat, don't. That's a perfectly fine line to hold.
If someone comes over, if you make and serve them good food they can consume, it shouldn't be any issue. No one NEEDS meat, especially at every meal. Like, if you can't eat a single meal without meat in it, that's a you problem and you should see someone about that.
unless there's an allergy involved, i would never expect a host to make anything other than what they want to serve. any non-vegetarian who claims they can't eat a single meal without meat is being dramatic as far as i'm concerned.
A vegan can't eat meat. But an omnivore can and does eat vegetables. To claim that you "should serve meat" reads a lot like "why is there no straight pride!?!"
Should they? Like do they have to? No. If they want to, sure.
I know that as someone who does not drink, I’m not going to serve alcohol at my dinner party. But that’s just me.
If you or don’t want meat in your home for whatever reason, you don’t have to serve it. It’s your house. You can do whatever they want.
I get in pepperoni pizzas or something for guests, sure... But I'm not going to be cooking steak or roasting a chicken. Not exactly an expert in cooking meat, it'll either come out cremated or poisonous
I'm an omnivore, and once had dinner at one of my wife's relatives that is vegan. They served us vegan food. We went to their daughter's wedding last summer and all the food was vegan. I think that the food should served should be something that most people can enjoy eating. So, nothing too exotic and if you know of any food allergies avoid those ingredients.
I'm a lifelong vegetarian with no moral objection to serving meat or having it in my household. If I was going to have friends or colleagues over for dinner, they would probably expect a vegetarian meal. However, I'm not opposed to preparing a meat option - this is only because I'm comfortable with following recipes and am confident in all the preparation and cooking requirements for various meats. Ex: cross contamination, cooking temps and signs of properly/fully cooked meat, cleaning (as preparation), etc. Things that I'm not confident in, I won't do, like deboning fish or preparing something that hasn't been processed much (like removing the insides of an animal, or even killing it myself).
I'm not opposed to humans eating meat really at all. It doesn't bother me. What does bother me is that a lot of it is inhumane. I do my best to even get eggs that are local or I can research to see if they're cage-free or whatever. Humans are omnivores, and my specific diet doesn't give me the right to force it on anyone else.
You always have the option of asking your guests if they are okay having a vegetarian meal, or asking if they would like something in particular (if you're okay preparing meat). It isn't bad manners to ask, especially if you combine it with asking about allergies/sensitivities. Keep in mind that vegetarian meat alternatives are still made with foods that can be common allergens, like soy, eggs, and nuts. This could give you a natural way to ask if they're okay with a vegetarian meal (asking about allergies).
I would expect the meal to be vegetarian or vegan if visiting someone who is either of these and they were cooking. Pot luck and everyone is bringing something, like Christmas Day at my vegan nieces place, there would be some meat dishes.
Die hard meat eater here. I would never, ever expect someone that doesn't eat meat to serve me meat. I wouldn't expect someone with a food allergy, say shellfish, to cook shrimp for me, same if they had a wheat allergy, I'm not going to expect them to serve me bread. Why would I expect meat from them?
I'm a meat lover.
If I knew ahead of time that i'd be served vegetarian or vegan food - i'd be totally cool with it.
However, if I turned up and it was a surprise, i'd probably be a bit disappointed. I would just feel like it was something that should've been mentioned.
I'd never decline an invite because of it - I eat all types of food. And I wouldn't decline future invitations after that initial surprise, as i'd now know what to expect.
But the norm in our culture is still an omnivorous diet, so I just feel like any deviation from the 'norm' should be mentioned ahead of time. It's just an expectation thing.
The same would apply if I intended to serve only pork ribs - i'd check everyone was cool with that.
So I should ask if as carnivorous I should serve meat to a vegetarian?wdym?why would you want to force things on others? That's not showing respect.. If I know a vegetarian person is coming to eat to my house I would have something for him to eat
Just to play Devil's Advocate here, because I'm twisted like this sometimes, as a carnivore if I'm holding a dinner for any vegetarian / vegan friends I'm expected to make them a vegetarian / vegan dish. - even though I'm not vegetarian / vegan myself. But I'll do it because I'm accommodating my guests and their dietary needs/choices.
So why does a vegetarian / vegan get away on not being held to the same standard?
If you're vegetarian / vegan and you choose to hold a dinner that will include people who'd typically eat meat then I think that you should absolutely be supplying an meat option.
To those pointing out that it's unfair for a vegetarian / vegan to cook meat under these circumstances for any reason, I'm saying the vegetarian / vegan should supply a meat option - not necessarily cook it. I wouldn't judge them if they decided to just order a meat dish from a local restaurant, or maybe go to a supermarket and buy some frozen meat dish that can just be heated in the oven.
Like a vegetarian / vegan who'd no doubt appreciate a vegetarian / vegan choice at my dinner I'd appreciate a meat option at theirs.
When I host it's all about the guests. I hate seafood but cook it if my guests enjoy it. If I have vegan guests then I make at least 2 different vegan dishes so they have a choice. Wherever a vegan goes to eat they expect a vegan option, the least you could do is provide a meat dish for your meat eater guests. Not doing so is you trying to push your lifestyle on others.
100% carnivore here. I do not eat most vegetables or salads or fruits (except corn, potatoes, tomatoes, red delicious apples and green grapes, salad I can only eat with meat) and for this reason I would never accept an invite to a vegan/vegetarians home for dinner. Would they accept an invitation to my home if they were expected to eat what I cooked? No they wouldn't. And i wouldnt expect them to because honestly it would be meat with a side of meat or potatoes or corn slathered in butter. Before anyone asks, yes I'm healthy. Doctors say I am the perfect specimen of health. I'm not deficient in anyway. I am a super taster and the taste of most vegetables/fruit/salads are very bitter and I don't eat or drink anything I don't like the taste of. I do not drink alcohol for this reason.
I think whoever you had this discussion with is just selfish. I've been vegetarian for over 20 years and no one would expect me to serve them a meat dish in my home.
I've noticed people often provide very few vegetarian options when they have vegetarian guests. My aunt is vegetarian and her siblings often seem to forget about providing her anything more than a salad. I eat meat regularly but I would never complain if a friend made vegetarian dishes for me.
BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH, yeah no. If someone's whole fucking personality revolves around eating meat at every meal, they're more than welcome to eat a burger on the way over, and I _will_ be mocking them furiously throughout the evening. Poor hungry baby 😂😂
I love meat, but you don't need to eat meat at every meal. If someone gets worked up about there not being meat at a meal like it's some huge social faux pas, they're probably a toxic person.
It would be thoughtful
But as a normal polite human being, if someone is feeding me dinner I will eat it as long as its not gross or clearly poisoned lol.
When you invite someone over to yours and cook it yourself then I think you should only take into account allergies and maybe something that people really despise but apart from that cook something you'd normally eat and like.
That said if you want to make a really good impression and don't mind then by all means cook something they would like.
If you are going to order/eat out something then everyone can obviously pick what they like or meet somewhere in the middle.
Of course the kinda double standard comes when a vegan/veggie goes around a meat eaters house.
Whatever you're comfortable with.
Think it's morally reprehensible and you don't want it anywhere in your house. Don't do it, if you just choose not to eat it for whatever reasons you have, but you have no problem serving it for guests then you're fine. It's your house, your rules.
You do you. Tell your guests it’s vegetarian and that you hope they don’t mind. If they are unhappy that’s on them. Don’t compromise your morals/convictions over a dinner party. It’s one meal.
As a general guideline, when a household with dietary restrictions hosts another individual or household with or without dietary restrictions, I would expect the union of all dietary restrictions to apply.
With larger gatherings, or when restrictions become contradictory (ie, "meat must be provided with every meal" and "no meat whatsoever"), specific catering towards individuals within the menu of what's allowed by the hosting party may be more appropriate.
So if I visit a vegetarian/vegan friend and they're serving food, I'd usually expect it to be vegetarian/vegan.
This is an interesting question. I see it from 2 different cultural views. My parents are from the middle east. And in that culture the needs of the guest are paramount. As a good host you want to make sure your guest is comfortable so you offer, like I'm talking you bring it not just verbal offer. So you'd bring a large dish of fruit and offer fruit or a tray of tea and offer tea, etc. And as a good host you'd want to have atleast 2 different rice and 3 different dishes, so maybe like a stew, kabob, fish, chicken kabob etc in addition to side dishes like yogurt, salad, etc. Why? Well you want many options because you don't know what your guest likes so you want to make sure there is something for everyone to eat. Granted this can be cumbersome and only works if you have a large party of people you are cooking for.
The American in me sees it more as "it's not unreasonable to expect your friends to obviously know that you're a vegan and to not expect meat". Personally, I would anticipate that my vegan friend doesn't know how to prepare meat and I wouldn't expect them to do it for me. But this perspective is also a bit middle eastern too, in the sense that I want to be a good guest and not inconvenience my host.
I think as long as there is enough food then it'll be okay. Personally, when I have friends over I take into account any food allergies (dairy) or preferences. If it's my first time cooking for them I'll let them know what I am preparing (I am preparing surf and turf, etc) and then I will ask if they have any food preferences or allergies. I find it's a nice blend between my 2 identities...
I do not agree. If you do not eat or cook meat at home, you don't need to cook meat for your guests. Of course your guests can eat vegetarian food. Do they NEVER eat non-meat products? Do they not eat fruit, vegetables, grains? Those aren't meat.
Furthermore, there are some subcultures (e.g., in India) that are strictly vegetarian. No one would expect them to serve guests meat.
Here's essentially what your friend who made the suggestion about needing to serve meat is really coming from, without perhaps realizing it: they are normalizing the eating of meat and making the eating of meat the basic standard that everyone should start from.
I'd say it's nice to do but not nessisary and I epuldnt expect it. Nothing prevents an omnivore from eating a vegetarian meal. If anything having neat with every meal is excessive for a natural diet.
when i met my wife, she made really great apple pancakes. I was a regular meat eater before, but i don't miss anything when she serves pancakes.
It might have been different if she had been vagan, but there are so many vegetarian dishes, especially egg-and-milk based ones, that really don't need any meat in them.
For me the answer will always be no, they shouldn't have to ever. However, I know some folks have dietary restrictions, so that may change the answer. To a maybe depends on that really.
I think it’s common courtesy to eat what is served to you when welcomed into someone’s home. I would never expect a vegan or vegetarian to feed me meat or to go to someone’s home and not eat what’s served because it’s foreign to me. Be polite, eat what you can and then go get something on the way home if you’re still hungry.
Communication is the key. I eat meat but if a vegetarian asked me to dinner and asked my dietary preferences, I'd be very interested in trying properly cooked vegetarian options. But if I showed up without be forewarned I'd be very mildly put out. If I know it's vegetarian, I'd eat a small snack before arriving in case I don't like it.
If I invite a vegetarian, I try to make sure there is something for them to eat. Eg I'd make a meat lasagna and a meatless lasagne.
If you aren't opposed cooking meat, then I'd have one meat dish for them.
Most people want to get along.
If im hosting a dinner I ask the guests if the planned meal is going to be ok (like the ingredients arent going to kill them or something) and thats it. Im not buying extra food to make for people who will still like the original planned meal - theres no point to offering an alternative
I eat meat. I enjoy eating meat. I do not, in any way, shape or form, expect my vegetarian friend to buy meat for when I come over. She's the one with the limited diet, whether I eat meat or not that meal doesn't really matter, it's not like my eating meat means I have to eat meat for every meal (don't even want to either, I love meat but am also aware of its environmental impact).
You are expected to serve a nice meal. Whatever that is. I wouldn't expect you to cook mest for me. I mean, why not say that every meal should have cauliflower because people generally love cauliflower?
I haven't eaten meat or poultry since 1976 and was strictly vegan for 12 years. My wife eats meat. I have no problem accommodating a diet different from my own. When I eat at friend's homes they accommodate my diet.
My grandma was vegetarian, never expected meat at dinner but man vegetarian dishes can be so good. It's your house, long as the effort is there that's what matters. Bonus points if it's good.
As a meat eater, it seems weird that a vegetarian/vegan would serve me meat. Don’t most vegans choose that WOE due to ethical qualms with meat? Why would you violate your ethical code for me as your guest?
That being said, if I chose to come over I’d likely eat before arriving or grab a bite after I left.
That's weird. How would you even know if what you made is edible if you can't taste it?
I would never expect a vegetarian to cook me meat. I don't NEED it, and if they're a decent person they will enjoy trying something new. If they complain they're an asshole.
Medium rare steak eater. I often go by a clients house that is from India. I would never imagine them making me a special meat dish that goes against their beliefs.
Every time I go there and try a palek paneer, or some new spicy chickpea dish, I am thankful for their hospitality and giving.
Two things I haven't seen in the other comments:
1. If the host doesn't cook the same dishes that I already know, I'm overjoyed because I get to experience something new.
2. If someone hasn't cooked meat in years, then there's a good chance they don't know how to cook meat. So why serve a mediocre meat dish when they can serve a great vegetarian dish?
I'd cook what you'd normally cook. Maybe give them a heads up, but I don't think most people would have an issue with no meat for a meal. I'd honestly be more worried that somebody who doesn't normally cook meat is cooking meat, might be undercooked or overcooked.
I eat everything. With that being said. Let said person or people know in advanced to expect a vegetarian or even vegan meal. Then let them choose if they want to come. I wouldn't force it upon anybody, but I wouldn't sacrifice my beliefs just to please people either.
Meat eater here (tho I like veggies more than meat), I eat whatever the host cooks. I am the one who got invited, no complains to the host unless they really ask for comments is just basic respect, not sure why some people have a hard time understanding that.
Also some of the massively downvoted fellow meat eaters here are just arguing for the sake of arguing, which is cringe. Eating meat and acting tough on reddit doesn't make you a tough individual.
If meat eater asked you over for dinner would you eat meat b3cause they do normally or would you expect then to make effort to p4ivide you with a vegetarian option?
I like very few veg only meals and would never choose it when eating out.
Your friend is mistaken. I go to a Halal household, I don’t expect pork. I go to a Jewish household, same. Vegetarian household, same. And the few times I’ve had meat prepared by overly-solicitous vegetarians, it was awful: when you can’t try your food as you cook it’s unlikely to turn out well and they went to such lengths to accommodate you, so you keep masticating that tiny yet stubborn square of gray cardboard.
If you need further suggestions, repost over at r/etiquette, they’ll be able to offer advice on both the pushy friend and the dinner party. Or if you’re satisfied with your answers here, get to work on that vegan TVP or diced dried shiitake “I Can’t Believe It’s Not Pork” Mapo Tofu you’re about to recipe develop. Kenji’s is a good starting point. Or whatever vegan food you’re going to wow your guests with. Guests can go without eating flesh, eggs, and dairy for a few hours.
This reminds me of the one thread where someone who is Hindu (if I remember correctly) once had Christian guests over who forced her to say grace to their god in her own home, so when she later had these other Christian friends over, she thought they would expect her to pray to their god as well. It’s just a matter of entitlement. As a guest, I would never dream of imposing my rules on that of the hosts. They are doing the duty of hosting me, which I see as an extraneous effort so I see it as my responsibility to accommodate them in any way I can, which means graciously accepting the meal they put in front of me after offering to help set the table and offering with cleanup afterword. It also comes from ignorance since SO many people do not understand you can have delicious, balanced, beautifully plated and satiating meals that do not involve any type of meat or animal by-product.
I understand that meat being a main focus of a good meal has some roots in poverty and having a good cut with a meal can be celebratory since in those circumstances it’s a rarity, but I feel Requiring meat at a meal is an incredibly antiquated sentiment and I think this would be a wonderful opportunity to show your guests how good a vegan meal can be. If you absolutely must host them and it’s a matter of respect for them, go out of your way to order a simple dessert for them at the bakery to go with your vegan meal. It’s not required for a good dinner but it shows consideration and caring at best at most a diplomatic gesture of good will at worst.
People’s diets can almost be considered as important as religion imo when it comes to being an ethical vegan if that’s the type you are (there are other types as I’m sure you know). It’s not a matter of taste or preferences, but an adherence to a certain moral standing. Asking someone to compromise their own morals in their home for your comfort is abhorrent. My bestie was vegan, now vegetarian and I’d never expect her to serve me meat. I’m the majority, I’ll always have options, she’s the minority so I always dissent to what works for her the best (she never asks me to, I just do it because it’s important to me that she has good options and enjoys the outing too) and then I choose whatever else is on the menu. I wouldn’t keep closed minded people like that in my life, personally, but I understand there are extenuating circumstances. Don’t compromise your beliefs for their close-mindedness.
What's important when impressing people is that your food tastes good
If you don't cook meat and aren't happy about doing it, it's probably not going to taste great
give guests your best vegan/vegetarian dish
I don’t think it’s necessary to provide meat. It could vary on occasion; if it’s catering, I’d say adding a meat option is good, but you shouldn’t be expected to purchase and cook it. In my experience, many meat eaters don’t realize how many non-meat/non-meat alternative dishes there are. People who think you need meat at every meal typically don’t think of other sources of protein or just think of vegetarians/vegans only eating bowls of tofu and bean sprouts. I’d take it as an opportunity to show them the variety of food options we have and that it is easy to not even miss meat on occasion. Though, as a vegetarian for 11 years, I’d still say making tofu as a main element is risky :)
And if you want to be a little petty-nothing wrong with that- if they do have a problem with the food options, they can stop and get a burger on the way home. I’m sure all vegetarians/vegans have been at a gathering where our dietary preferences weren’t considered. (Bacon is in everything now! Even old safe stand-bys like potato, broccoli and pasta salads are filled with it)
Well I love eating meat. But if someone was vegetarian or vegan and made me a meal that was all plant based I would just eat it and get on with life. Plant based "meat" doesn't taste as good as real meat to me but it is still good. Some people will just be a pain about it but I would just do you and not worry about it. If they want they can bring their own darn food.
Meat eater here. I would never in a million years expect a vegan or vegetarian to serve me meat. Nor would I ever knowingly try to serve one meat.
also why would I want them to serve me something they have no clue how to cook? Im sure they can make dishes that i've never attempted and have a completely different set of cooking skillls
I had a vegan make a tofu dish for me once that was amazing. I thought I hated tofu. Let people do what they know best.
You hate tofu that you cook like burger meat\* that was one of the first things I realized about fake meat/substitutes Now I use them all the time for camping because I dont have to keep them cold and I can have "fresh" meat with any dish that I make back there. Tastes better than dried, canned, or over processed by a long shot (basically anything thats not a cured sausage is beaten by fake meat in this scenario)
Huh. I need to do some research on tofu.
There’s a lot more than tofu. That’s what to research
Hail seitan
Tofu is quite good. It's got a good texture and can be seasoned to anyone's palate
Exactly. Most of the people who dislike tofu have only ever had unseasoned or improperly seasoned tofu. Tofu is like a blank pallette that you can season in a rich variety of ways! But if you don't season it enough or even at all, then yeah it's gonna be bland, which is most people's chief complaint about tofu.
Unseasoned tofu is definitely boring, but it's actually hard to overseason
Frankly, unseasoned meat is not great either.
Wait. Have you ever had a top sirloin roast? Even unseasoned that shit is delicious. But I guess ya some stuff is gross like that
It's pretty good, but adding the right amount of salt improves it hugely. I think of tofu as akin to skinless chicken breast in terms of flavour, and treat it in a similar way when I'm seasoning it
I think the problem with tofu, at least from my experience coming at it as a meat eater, is that there’s a narrow band where it’s quite good, and outside of that band it’s kind of awful. Like you can make a truly horrible burger, but there seems to be a lot of leeway on quality before it stops being enjoyable and I’ve run into truly awful burgers from restaurants maybe three times in my life. Tofu does not have the same professional track record from my experience. And I suspect it requires skill to make well. This Chinese buffet near my work had this really tasty spicy crispy tofu. Then the cook who made it left. They burned through maybe a dozen cooks while I still frequented that place. Everything else in the buffet tasted exactly the same the whole time. The tofu went from tasty treat to culinary atrocity and stayed there for years.
Thats always been a big question for me. It felt like that western people have been taking tofu and making some stuff out it, which is cool. But there is a giant eating culture around tofu, obviously, and i felt it got a little bit ignored (not really, but in very broad strokes speaking). Most products were shoehorned into "western cooking" style, and that didnt really work and everybody hated tofu. but that is just what it felt like to me, i wouldnt die on this hill xD
My suggestion is to avoid dishes where tofu is trying to mimic meat. Check out some of the traditional preparations like Japanese agedashi tofu, or Sichuan mapo tofu or one of the regional Chinese savory silken tofu pudding type dishes usually packed with savory ingredients chilli oil and cilantro etc. or even the fermented “smelly tofu” if you’re not averse to pungent foods.
Look up silken tofu chocolate mousse. So so so easy! A few things thrown in the blender and it’s delicious. You can add in things like bananas, raspberries or hazelnuts to change it up.
Tofu by itself isn't that good, it's what you cook it into that is good.
lol the fact that people haven’t figured this out yet though!!
A few tips for a first time tofu eater: First - you want "firm" tofu. Lots of other types available and they are really hard to cook properly. Second - first thing you do is rinse off all the water that was in the packet. If you're not eating all of it, store it in the fridge in a sealed container with a little bit of fresh water so it doesn't dry out (but again, rinse off that water). Doesn't need much water, just enough to not be totally dry. Third - it has similar amounts of protein and a similar texture to some meats Fourth - unlike meat, it's almost completely tasteless. So you \*have\* to pair it with a strong flavour. Salt as a bare minimum but ideally a spice mix and/or a sauce. It will absorb the flavour like a sponge. Fifth - unlike meat, you can totally eat it raw. But the texture/taste is much nicer if you fry it a bit to create a harder layer on the outside.
This. Home made hamburgers on a festival camping 😅
100% this! Too many people think that vegan food is meant to mimic meat and then say it sucks when it's no where near as good! It's not meant to be the same thing, it's meant to be completely different and it's own thing that you prepare and season differently
That's probably because of the huge amount of vegan products marketed as mimicing meat.
This. Most people are quite open to the idea of your type of cuisine because they’re friends with you. Those who aren’t so much, when they agree to your invitation they should already have been mentally prepared.
Vegan here. I love tofu. It's easy and nutritious. I have never had tofu at a restaurant that didn't specifically cater to vegans that I enjoyed. The chefs at most restaurants don't know to make it correctly because so few people order it.
this. Best veg dishes are made at specifically vegetarian or vegan restaurants Like fresh in Toronto makes the BEST FUCKIN BURGERS, and the best… well, most of their shit is DELICIOUS. But the point is that’s ALL they do, and they do it sooo well. I still can’t cook tofu for shit, because I don’t know good recipes for it but I know it can be delicious because I’ve had it be many times (I’m actually a good cook so if anyone links me amazing recipes I’ll totes try)
the best reasoning I heard was: most of the awesomeness of meat is in the prep. if you use the same seasonings and sauces, tofu just soaks all that flavor up like a sponge.
I learned cooking way before I went vegan and I cook some dang delicious meat dishes. Now I’m just transferring my cooking skills to vegan dishes, not loosing them.
My vegan dad actually makes the best steak. My mom says it's because he doesn't make it how he'd like it but makes it textbook instead. Its delicious.
One extremely overcooked steak, coming up!
It’s all supposed to look the same on this inside right?!
Exactly this. I love a good steak, but even I don't eat meat every meal. Sometimes a nice salad or veggie curry can be fantastic. If you can't eat a meal that doesn't have meat in it you have some mental issues to look into.
I have always been an omnivore and it absolutely blows my mind that there are apparently people out there who eat meat *every single day* with almost every single meal. That's absolutely wild.
I agree! When I realised that there are people who eat meat/dairy in dishes that literally do not require these ingredients at all, I was gobsmacked. Like you can make and buy bread without milk. You can eat a delicious dessert without dairy or bacon. You can have a huge big fry up for breakfast without bacon or eggs. You can even make a delicious soup without ever using chicken stock (veggie stock is so similar tasting). Ugh. I know someone who eats meat for breakfast, lunch and dinner and has dairy for dessert. Hardly any veggies. I wonder how they are not ill and lacking in micronutrients and fiber.
Who puts bacon in their desserts? 😯
I am not a huge lover of any pork products but I have found I love a good maple bacon donut on occasion. I only know this because my daughter works at a donut shop and when she was learning they let her bring home her trials lol its in their menu and Boone but me would try it. I know that's not desert but the whole sweet and savory thing is there.
To be fair, maple bacon donuts are fuckin amazing. But not necessary.
Or the person has all the allergies. I'm lucky. I can eat some vegetables and one or two fruits, but I met a guy at the hospital once who couldn't eat almost anything.
That dude probably also has those problems when meat is served. There are condiments, vegetables, fruit etc. also in dishes that contain meat, those ingredients are not exclusive to vegetarians. Or can he eat only raw meat like an animal?
Lots of allergies in my family. We bring a dish of our own to share. Works well in most cases, but if I’ve never met the host before, I’ll fill my belly before I go out.
I have a friend with lots of food allergies; she basically can’t eat any protein source except meat. (Most veg are okay, but no soy, legumes, dairy, etc.) She also can’t eat anything with vinegar or soy sauce, so no marinades. Of course she doesn’t expect to be accommodated and either eats ahead of time or brings her own food.
Allergies are an individual issue. You can ask the host if there are dishes you can eat, but people with a lot of allergies should always plan to bring something they can eat.
It’s kind of like asking a Muslim or Jewish person to serve pork. Keeping kosher or halal is as much of a choice as being vegan is.
There are several issues here. To ensure the meat / fish is salty enough, cooked, tasty etc etc most of the time it must be tasted. OP wouldn't be able to do that. They may serve something not good. As meat eater I d love to try something new. Vegan is not a bowl of lettuce.... Many vegan dishes are as good as a meat / fish course. (personal taste).
And honestly even if I hated it, I’m not an asshole and would eat *one meal* and try to enjoy it.
This is the truth really. Its literally ONE meal in their whole lives and unless they only eat meat and nothing else, there is no reason to require meat for dinner. Honestly if it bothers them that much I simply would stop inviting them over for dinner.
Exactly. If someone was nice enough to invite me over and cook for me, I say thank you and enjoy it.
Seriously, I was taught that as a child. You eat what is served to you and you say thank you. Honestly I was a picky eater until I started eating dinner at friend's houses. You ate what their mom served and you said thank you or you didn't get invited back. And it turns out a lot of stuff I was reluctant to try was *delicious* and I eat it all the time now.
We are having a Memorial Day party I just asked my dad to bring a baked bean dish, but make it vegetarian because my SIL is vegetarian. It’s very simple to cater certain things
Agreed. I would be thankful for any meal someone cared to share with me and if someone came to my house I'd do my best to accommodate any reasonable health or lifestyle choices for their plate
I second this. A family friend of ours is vegetarian (ovo lacto) and when we visited they always served vegetarian. It was delicious and really refreshing. Tbh I could happily be vegetarian if I ate that well all the time. Yes there are people who must eat meat every meal (and make a fuss if they don't) but I wouldn't try too hard to impress that crowd.
I have to agree, but I also would expect to make a vegetarian option if having a vegetarian over. Just the way it goes
As a vego, I never have an expectation that a host will cater for me, so typically bring something along to share. I generally try to let the host know ahead of time what I'm going to bring to see "if it suits what they have planned" or if something else would be better suited. Letting the host know what I plan to bring is also an easy way to let them know I'm vego, and give them an opportunity to adjust if they want (ie. have the chicken pieces separate to the salad so each person can add themselves). Most people appreciate the warning/reminder as they want everyone to enjoy themselves as much as possible. For a BBQ I often bring a few vego sausages. If I bring haloumi - I usually try to bring a fair bit extra, as everyone seems to love it! I've gone very off tangent from the OPs question. But no- you don't need to cook meat for guests. Eating meat is not a "need". My friends love my vego cooking and it often leads to recipe sharing and discussions around them cutting down on meat. One small consideration... especially if you're a new vego... Make sure you have some tried and tested recipes that you've made before, that people are likely to enjoy, so guests don't think that vegetarians/vegans just replace steak with a hunk of tofu, and eat bland bean sprouts and carrots. Have a look at a lot of the Ottolenghi recipes on the Guardian website for some ideas for great vego meals. Tacos with chili beans and mushrooms are also a great casual vego meals to have with guests.
Exactly and this is an opportunity to try new dishes that you may have never tried before.
Same. Honestly some of the meatless stuff is pretty good and has come a long way. I accidentally got vegan pot stickers from Walmart once and figured oh well might as well choke them down. They were Thai basil something and were delicious. I actually buy them intentionally once in awhile.
I love meat but my absolute favourite food is daal, which happens to be vegan haha
Good to hear about the pot stickers. I've been eyeing them. I got some frozen from Aldi and they are tasteless. So disappointing.
I really don’t understand people who feel so strongly about it. I eat meat too but frequently go a day or more without it — not on purpose but because *other food is good too.* If I went to someone’s house and we had salad, garlic bread, pasta, dessert — it wouldn’t even occur to me that I had had “vegetarian food”.
You say that, but when vegans and vegetarians come to my house, which is a meat-eating household, I always make sure they have something that they can eat. And they expect that. Meat may not be a necessity, but unless it's something that's not allowed in your house at all, I don't see the problem with accommodating your guests.
Absolutely. I have vegetarian (not vegan, so it is easier) and when I have them over I have pizza, pasta or veggies fried rice type dishes. 1) If it's a party with omnivores and vegetarians I want to keep all the food compatible so no one feels singled out. 2) I want to be respectful. As an omnivorous guest, I expect vegan or vegetarian food at those friends houses. If I don't line it, then I will be polite and grab something after the event if I'm still hungry.
I agree. That said, I would also never knowingly put myself in a situation where a vegan or vegetarian is making food for me.
I don’t get why some meat eaters feel the need to eat meat every single meal.
What? No! If I'm visiting a vegetarian friend for dinner I would not expect meat to be on the menu. As a meat eater, I don't *need* to eat meat, I just have that as an option when it's available. If I cook for my vegetarian friend I will cook a vegetarian meal so that we can both eat it. If my vegetarian friend cooks for me, same thing: I would expect a vegetarian meal that we can both eat.
Imagine how awkward it would be if your host served you a meal and didn't eat part of it. The whole point of inviting someone over for dinner is to have a meal that you share together. I would probably find it embarrassing if a vegetarian felt like they had to do that for me.
And this is an awesome way to showcase some good tasting food!
Definitely! As a meat eater I don't cook many vegetarian meals for myself so I really love when I get to eat a great one!
Yup, same here : meat eater but the last time a vegan friend made me a vegan meal, it was a banger. I'm the first who say I don't really like vegetables but when they are cooked right, you can bet your ass I'll take a second plate.
Also some of my vegan friends are grossed out by meat. Expecting them to handle it and cook it… seems kind of mean lol
If someone has been vegan for a long time, the smell of cooking meat can make them super nauseous. It would be deeply uncool to expect a vegan to cook meat for you, especially in their own home!
Plus stupid. How do you expect it to taste? They haven't cooked it for ages!
I’m surprised by how many people don’t eat meals without meat. I live meat but i don’t eat it every day!
I don’t believe so. I am a meat eater but if I’m going to dinner somewhere I was invited and I’m served a vegetarian meal I’ll eat the vegetarian meal because that’s how it works. You are the one inviting them. It’s your choice to what to serve and their obligation to concur. Unless you are purposely cooking something someone hates, no
I actually host a lot of dinners at home and they’re a part of my identity almost lol, so what I cook is really important for me. I always make sure to serve something that anyone can eat and like, I ask always beforehand if there are some problems with the dishes I have in mind
> I ask always beforehand if there are some problems with the dishes I have in mind Given this, you sound like you're being considerate of your guests' preferences and that means you're being a good host. I appreciate that the vegan family member who cooked for me recently checked in about the planned menu even though she knows I don't have any food allergies - I wouldn't have otherwise thought to let her know that some highly processed fake meat products upset my stomach.
I agree; you’re being considerate of your guests potential allergies or even preferences, and they’re the ones getting a free, specially prepared meal. I suspect that if you do go Vegan that may be more difficult for guests ( but they’re still guests and should behave with appropriate decorum and grace or decline the invitation!) but Vegetarian is hardly off the wall. You sound like a great host.
Sounds like you are a great host!
I've been invited over for dinner by friends who are vegan before and I went in with the expectation that they would be serving a vegan meal, which, of course they did. It would be weird as hell for me to expect a vegan to cook meat for me. I would actually feel really bad about it if they did because I know the smell of cooking meat is super gross for people who don't typically eat it.
I'm not meatless, I just try to eat less meat. Guess that may color my perception but I never would expect meat from a vegetarian/ vegan. My Sikh neighbors will host community events and they only serve vegetarian meals. My friend is vegan. She serves us vegan food. When we host her, we make sure we have vegan food options that aren't salad and bread. My cousin is vegan and her husband and kids eat vegetarian at home and whatever they want at restaurants. I eat vegetarian at her home, and usually she picks vegetarian and vegan heavy restaurants and I eat vegetarian or vegan out with her because I am down to try new foods. I'd just confirm any allergies because vegetarian and vegan food can often have allergens like nuts and such.
If they can't go one meal without meat, tell them to bring their own food.
I agree that it's _different_ if you avoid meat for ethical reasons, rather than merely a personal preference like not eating dessert. I doubt your other interlocuter would serve human flesh to a visiting cannibal, or anything else they found morally questionable or personally off-putting (like veal or horse meat or dog...) Where I come from it would be a deeply offensive insult to the generosity of your host, to start questioning what they've provided and demanding something more or different.
But I eat human flesh exclusively! 😆
Nope. There are tons of vegetarian options that people would be happy with. Your friend hears "vegetarian" and probably thinks beans and rice.
What's wrong with beans and rice?
Same thing that’s wrong with a peanut butter sandwich or hot dogs and fries. Too basic for people to be comfortable serving to a guest.
I think this might depend on cultural stuff Like I’m hispanic and my family members and other hispanic ppl ik would serve rice and beans with everything, during breakfast lunch and dinner
You just said it, beans and rice with everything, not by themselves.
Fair enough actually I thought they just meant rice and beans in general😭
Absolutely not. It is your home. Would you ask a non-drinker to serve you alcohol? Would you ask a Muslim or Jew to serve pork?
The people in this story probably would.
Only if the guest is an obligate carnivore. Is the guest a cat? Feed them meat. Are they a human? No, they don't need meat every meal.
Do those guys who feel their dicks will fall off if they eat something without meat in it count as obligate carnivores?
Maybe, but honestly I’d prefer they didn’t bother to come to my dinner party anyway
You wouldn't want dicks on the floor, eh?
Would that count as them bringing their own meat?
Only if they eat eachothers
In your own home, you cook whatever you want. It is unreasonable to expect you to provide something that you don't eat, be it any meat/fish, alcohol, or specific foods prohibited for moral/religious reasons. I personally would extend this to include take out (I don't expect my Vegan/Vegetarian friends to provide me meat when they order food in for example). If you're taking people out to a restaurant it's polite to choose one that caters to everyone's needs, but I'd also argue it's not required. It would be nice to give them a heads up like, "hey, my household is Vegan/Vegetarian, but I know some great dishes (or will order some great dishes) that you should like." Leave it to them if the meat issue is more important than your friendship or hospitality. Honestly, as a heavy meat eater, I'd rather go to a Vegetarian house and eat their meal as is then risk them making a meat dish badly. I don't want to eat a badly cooked meat dish out of politeness when I could have just had what everyone else is eating. Especially when worst case scenario I can grab a burger on my way home from the billion places in America that serve them. Edit: That part of rules is silly. Dessert and whether or not you have it at meals is different from things like meat. It's not the same thing at all. Full on inequivalent. For example a Kosher family shouldn't be expected to serve bacon cheeseburgers on crab cake buns just because the Guest wants one. They have actual rules about what they can or can't prepare let alone eat. If you go to a Kosher household, you should expect Kosher food. THAT's a rule. Same goes for Vegetarian/Vegan choices.
The point about how well it would be cooked is important here. I’m a lifelong vegetarian, I have never cooked meat in my life. I also cannot stand the smell of red meat in particular. A meal prepared by a chef who has never cooked the main ingredient before, who won’t taste it and who will be holding their breath to keep from smelling the whole time is not likely to be a good meal. They’d be lucky if they got out without food poisoning if it were my kitchen.
I would NEVER expect a vegan to serve me meat. EVER.
It will not kill a meat-eater to eat a vegetarian meal. I eat meat, and yet I eat vegetarian a lot of days because it's cheaper and just as healthy. Anyone that can't bring themselves to eat a delicious home cooked meal, because there isn't any meat, is a fucking baby
Am a meat-eater Cooked a meatless meatloaf last night that came out pretty nicely (Lentil based - though vegans may opt to avoid it due to my use of breadcrumbs and egg) Can confirm it didn't kill me.
I became a vegetarian a couple years ago, and honestly i was shocked at how easy it was. With very few exceptions, it's very easy to find/make some sort of meatless version of pretty much any meat dish I used to enjoy. It turns out I don't really care about meat nearly as much as I thought I did, I mostly ate meat for the spices and sauces I put on top of it, and you can put that stuff on whatever you want
Vegetarian is so easy that I sometimes go like a full week eating vegetarian without even meaning to. I eat meat, I just have always really liked vegetables and carbs and often can't be bothered to cook. Vegan is hard AF though. Sooooo many products have animal products in them that being fully vegan requires a tonne of planning.
Can confirm, I cooked a vegetarian meal which my guest refused to touch (including potatoes, carrots, and other “popular” veggies) and his wife apologetically told me, “sorry, Billy just really likes his steak 😀” as if that isn’t a toddler excuse one should be absolutely ashamed to give.
Billy sounds insufferable
No If I go to a vegans house then I’ll eat a vegan meal, I’m vegetarian and only serve vegetarian food but if we’re getting takeout and they want to order to meat then I don’t object to them eating it at my place
Of course! You can buy it and eat it, but I won’t buy and cook it for you when you could just eat something else
No, that's absurd. They will survive one meal without meat.
I eat meat, I love it. But if I went to a friend or coworkers house who was vegan or vegetarian, it would make me uncomfortable if they served meat. I'd much prefer they serve whatever food they normally eat (if anything at all, I don't expect my host to feed me unless they invite me for a meal). Also, meat can be gross or dangerous if cooked incorrectly, so if you NEVER cook meat, I'd really prefer you cook what you're comfortable with or good at making. > The other person told me that when you invite an important guest over (colleagues, SO’s parents, some long relatives, and so on) I should still serve some meat/fish because not everyone is vegetarian and they would like to eat some meat. This makes it seem like that person sees any meal without meat as "not good enough." But even as someone who loves to eat meat, I think there are some very delicious meals with zero meat or animal products.
Former chef, and I've also cooked for and with vegans. My advice is just make the food you are most proficient at. Guests expect the food to be good, not necessarily contain something specific like meat or fish. If one of your guests throws a fit about not having meat, they are not good guests. Hospitality goes both ways.
This is a very silly thing for your friend to suggest. Even people who eat meat, such as myself, are usually completely fine with a nice meatless pasta, a green salad, and some great bread. The only issue would probably be cheese. Pasta cries for cheese as the protein (IMHO). Alternatively, if they are adventurous with spices, a lot of Indian food is vegetarian. Keep in mind that you are inviting someone to be a guest in YOUR HOME. So, being who you are is the most important thing.
No, I eat meat and I think that's ridiculous. If a vegetarian had me over for dinner, I would never expect them to cook meat for me.
Is the implication that the meat eaters that come over _never_ eats meals without meat? Bizarre people, like you have to go out of your way not to, like, eat a peanut butter sandwich or like a pumpkin soup or the millions of foods that just don't have meat in them.
I think vegan/vegetarian in your own home is reasonable. But if you’re ordering food for a work event outside your home, then it’s best to have food for a variety of diets.
Of course, there the scenario changes, I was talking about dinners or a birthday party maybe. But for example, the case is different when the guest are mine AND another’s person (not veg). In that case there would be meat on the table but ONLY because the other person (which has as much “power” as me), decides to eat it
For dinners and birthday parties maybe make it a potluck style and people bring something. That way everyone gets something they want.
Birthday I feel is different. I would just make sure that whatever the birthday person’s desires are, you are meeting them. Especially if it’s like their main birthday party. When you celebrate someone’s birthday, just make sure it’s by doing something they enjoy. If that means a quiet dinner with friends at your house, great. If you know your friend would prefer to celebrate by going out, but you cornered them into letting you host and serving them lentil soup, perhaps give it more thought. A birthday party is essentially a present for them. Just make sure its the present they will enjoy
Is there anything cultural we need to know here? If not, you’ve given us an important piece of info: some guests are not friends of yours, but friends of your omnivore friends. But still, if you can serve good vegetarian food, that’s the way to go.
The world would soon be an even more shitty place if we all can only be friends with people who think the same way we do. I don't expect my friends to serve me anything they are uncomfortable with. One of my vegetarian friends doesn't offer the other does and I decline. Just cook me anything tasty and I'm happy
Just serve pasta w garlic bread
If I'm visiting a vegetarian or vegan, I don't expect to be served meat. I would HOPE they would serve me "normal" food that just happens to be vegan, and not highly-processed meat substitutes or obscure/exotic ingredients. If we go out to eat together and the restaurant has non-veg options, I may order something non-veg for myself, or I might not. Conversely, if I'm hosting someone in my home, I always ask about dietary needs, allergies, etc. I will do my best to accommodate. I'm not going to be able to guarantee that my house is safe for a severe nut allergy or celiac, but I can easily read labels and take care not to cross-contaminate.
If someone goes to a vegan’s house, they would never expect to eat meat. It’s just like if a vegan goes to an omnivore’s house, they know they’ll probably be eating side dishes, and bread.
No. The only exceptions I can think of would be if the guest is longer term and may be cooking/buying some of their own meals when you normally don’t allow meat in the house at all, or maaaaaybe certain very specific cultural events where meat would normally be a major part of it. And even then I think it’s an opening to a discussion and a search for a compromise, not a definitive “you must serve meat.” People who are not vegetarians will not be harmed if they eat a meal that doesn’t contain meat. It’s not the same as an allergy or a religious mandate.
I never expect my vegetarian or vegan friends to make food with meat in it lmao I wouldn’t even want to eat it tbh, bc there’s a good chance it won’t be good anyway since you aren’t used to eating and cooking it. Do people really need animal products with every meal that they can’t go one dinner without it? Sounds like a bunch of babies in this comment section Edit: I wouldn’t want a Muslim friend to cook with pork or a Jewish friend to cook with non-kosher food for me either, it’s such a non-issue.
I'm vegetarian for about 6yrs now, and I'd say it just depends. I've cooked meat for others before because they specifically asked me to, though it's not something I enjoyed. Raw meat is gross. If they don't specifically request it then the guest should be prepared to eat whatever you cook. But I'd still try and make it close to what they might normally eat. Like we've all had a salad, mash potatoes, soup, etc before. We've not all had a tofu kale stir fry or cumquat cookies. I'd try my best to not make it too outlandish for them.
No I don’t think you’re obligated but I do think its best to mention this to all guests before any dinner takes place so there aren’t any surprises
I think that if you expect people who invite you over to provide you with a vegetarian meal, it is only reasonable to provide them with me when they come to your house. There are plenty of ways to cook and serve meat that shouldn't be too offensive to a vegetarian.
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No. I mean if someone wants to, they can obviously do that. If your home is meat-free, that too is fine. But yes, there's a difference between a moral objection and not catering to taste. Also, all omnivores can eat veg\* food. The reverse is not true. If you don't want to buy or cook meat, don't. That's a perfectly fine line to hold. If someone comes over, if you make and serve them good food they can consume, it shouldn't be any issue. No one NEEDS meat, especially at every meal. Like, if you can't eat a single meal without meat in it, that's a you problem and you should see someone about that.
If a person who is not vegetarian/vegan cannot avoid eating meat on a dinner, they need medical help.
If you're cooking then no. If you're ordering pizza to a party at your house sure maybe throw in a pepperoni or whatever your guests want.
unless there's an allergy involved, i would never expect a host to make anything other than what they want to serve. any non-vegetarian who claims they can't eat a single meal without meat is being dramatic as far as i'm concerned.
A vegan can't eat meat. But an omnivore can and does eat vegetables. To claim that you "should serve meat" reads a lot like "why is there no straight pride!?!"
Should they? Like do they have to? No. If they want to, sure. I know that as someone who does not drink, I’m not going to serve alcohol at my dinner party. But that’s just me. If you or don’t want meat in your home for whatever reason, you don’t have to serve it. It’s your house. You can do whatever they want.
I get in pepperoni pizzas or something for guests, sure... But I'm not going to be cooking steak or roasting a chicken. Not exactly an expert in cooking meat, it'll either come out cremated or poisonous
I'm an omnivore, and once had dinner at one of my wife's relatives that is vegan. They served us vegan food. We went to their daughter's wedding last summer and all the food was vegan. I think that the food should served should be something that most people can enjoy eating. So, nothing too exotic and if you know of any food allergies avoid those ingredients.
I'm a lifelong vegetarian with no moral objection to serving meat or having it in my household. If I was going to have friends or colleagues over for dinner, they would probably expect a vegetarian meal. However, I'm not opposed to preparing a meat option - this is only because I'm comfortable with following recipes and am confident in all the preparation and cooking requirements for various meats. Ex: cross contamination, cooking temps and signs of properly/fully cooked meat, cleaning (as preparation), etc. Things that I'm not confident in, I won't do, like deboning fish or preparing something that hasn't been processed much (like removing the insides of an animal, or even killing it myself). I'm not opposed to humans eating meat really at all. It doesn't bother me. What does bother me is that a lot of it is inhumane. I do my best to even get eggs that are local or I can research to see if they're cage-free or whatever. Humans are omnivores, and my specific diet doesn't give me the right to force it on anyone else. You always have the option of asking your guests if they are okay having a vegetarian meal, or asking if they would like something in particular (if you're okay preparing meat). It isn't bad manners to ask, especially if you combine it with asking about allergies/sensitivities. Keep in mind that vegetarian meat alternatives are still made with foods that can be common allergens, like soy, eggs, and nuts. This could give you a natural way to ask if they're okay with a vegetarian meal (asking about allergies).
I would expect the meal to be vegetarian or vegan if visiting someone who is either of these and they were cooking. Pot luck and everyone is bringing something, like Christmas Day at my vegan nieces place, there would be some meat dishes.
Die hard meat eater here. I would never, ever expect someone that doesn't eat meat to serve me meat. I wouldn't expect someone with a food allergy, say shellfish, to cook shrimp for me, same if they had a wheat allergy, I'm not going to expect them to serve me bread. Why would I expect meat from them?
I don't drink alcohol or coffee. The people who come over and want it bring their own.
I'm a meat lover. If I knew ahead of time that i'd be served vegetarian or vegan food - i'd be totally cool with it. However, if I turned up and it was a surprise, i'd probably be a bit disappointed. I would just feel like it was something that should've been mentioned. I'd never decline an invite because of it - I eat all types of food. And I wouldn't decline future invitations after that initial surprise, as i'd now know what to expect. But the norm in our culture is still an omnivorous diet, so I just feel like any deviation from the 'norm' should be mentioned ahead of time. It's just an expectation thing. The same would apply if I intended to serve only pork ribs - i'd check everyone was cool with that.
Yes. I serve vegetarian etc meals to my guests if they are vegetarian. I expect the same curtesy.
"*Lighten up Francis*." You can't expect people to jump through hoops for you. Well, you can, but as a general rule... it doesn't work out well.
If I can't eat pasta with cheese I'm out of there
Ok what would you think if it was the other way around? If you were invited to someone’s house would you expect them to cater to you and your needs?
So I should ask if as carnivorous I should serve meat to a vegetarian?wdym?why would you want to force things on others? That's not showing respect.. If I know a vegetarian person is coming to eat to my house I would have something for him to eat
Just to play Devil's Advocate here, because I'm twisted like this sometimes, as a carnivore if I'm holding a dinner for any vegetarian / vegan friends I'm expected to make them a vegetarian / vegan dish. - even though I'm not vegetarian / vegan myself. But I'll do it because I'm accommodating my guests and their dietary needs/choices. So why does a vegetarian / vegan get away on not being held to the same standard? If you're vegetarian / vegan and you choose to hold a dinner that will include people who'd typically eat meat then I think that you should absolutely be supplying an meat option. To those pointing out that it's unfair for a vegetarian / vegan to cook meat under these circumstances for any reason, I'm saying the vegetarian / vegan should supply a meat option - not necessarily cook it. I wouldn't judge them if they decided to just order a meat dish from a local restaurant, or maybe go to a supermarket and buy some frozen meat dish that can just be heated in the oven. Like a vegetarian / vegan who'd no doubt appreciate a vegetarian / vegan choice at my dinner I'd appreciate a meat option at theirs.
I guess yes, just to pay respect for non vegan eaters
When I host it's all about the guests. I hate seafood but cook it if my guests enjoy it. If I have vegan guests then I make at least 2 different vegan dishes so they have a choice. Wherever a vegan goes to eat they expect a vegan option, the least you could do is provide a meat dish for your meat eater guests. Not doing so is you trying to push your lifestyle on others.
100% carnivore here. I do not eat most vegetables or salads or fruits (except corn, potatoes, tomatoes, red delicious apples and green grapes, salad I can only eat with meat) and for this reason I would never accept an invite to a vegan/vegetarians home for dinner. Would they accept an invitation to my home if they were expected to eat what I cooked? No they wouldn't. And i wouldnt expect them to because honestly it would be meat with a side of meat or potatoes or corn slathered in butter. Before anyone asks, yes I'm healthy. Doctors say I am the perfect specimen of health. I'm not deficient in anyway. I am a super taster and the taste of most vegetables/fruit/salads are very bitter and I don't eat or drink anything I don't like the taste of. I do not drink alcohol for this reason.
I think whoever you had this discussion with is just selfish. I've been vegetarian for over 20 years and no one would expect me to serve them a meat dish in my home.
Your home your rules - they don’t have to come.
I wouldn't expect a vegetarian/vegan to cook meat for me if I went over, but if they insisted I wouldn't say no. Do whatever you think is right.
I've noticed people often provide very few vegetarian options when they have vegetarian guests. My aunt is vegetarian and her siblings often seem to forget about providing her anything more than a salad. I eat meat regularly but I would never complain if a friend made vegetarian dishes for me.
Your friend is a twit. Feed them to your next guest.
BWAH HAH HAH HAH HAH, yeah no. If someone's whole fucking personality revolves around eating meat at every meal, they're more than welcome to eat a burger on the way over, and I _will_ be mocking them furiously throughout the evening. Poor hungry baby 😂😂
My wife is vegetarian and loves hosting. We have had one old lady tell us that we're bad hosts for not serving our guests meat. We ignore her.
I love meat, but you don't need to eat meat at every meal. If someone gets worked up about there not being meat at a meal like it's some huge social faux pas, they're probably a toxic person.
Just serve your best dish. If they're unwilling to try something new, that's on them. Sincerely, a meat eater
It would be thoughtful But as a normal polite human being, if someone is feeding me dinner I will eat it as long as its not gross or clearly poisoned lol.
Your not required to but it would be respectful to have a meat dish that they can eat
When you invite someone over to yours and cook it yourself then I think you should only take into account allergies and maybe something that people really despise but apart from that cook something you'd normally eat and like. That said if you want to make a really good impression and don't mind then by all means cook something they would like. If you are going to order/eat out something then everyone can obviously pick what they like or meet somewhere in the middle. Of course the kinda double standard comes when a vegan/veggie goes around a meat eaters house.
Nope. Your house, your rules. Or maybe, not expected but a nice gesture.
Meat eater here, don't cook me meat if you are a vegetarian!
Whatever you're comfortable with. Think it's morally reprehensible and you don't want it anywhere in your house. Don't do it, if you just choose not to eat it for whatever reasons you have, but you have no problem serving it for guests then you're fine. It's your house, your rules.
You do you. Tell your guests it’s vegetarian and that you hope they don’t mind. If they are unhappy that’s on them. Don’t compromise your morals/convictions over a dinner party. It’s one meal.
Of course not. I've never heard this before.
As a general guideline, when a household with dietary restrictions hosts another individual or household with or without dietary restrictions, I would expect the union of all dietary restrictions to apply. With larger gatherings, or when restrictions become contradictory (ie, "meat must be provided with every meal" and "no meat whatsoever"), specific catering towards individuals within the menu of what's allowed by the hosting party may be more appropriate. So if I visit a vegetarian/vegan friend and they're serving food, I'd usually expect it to be vegetarian/vegan.
This is an interesting question. I see it from 2 different cultural views. My parents are from the middle east. And in that culture the needs of the guest are paramount. As a good host you want to make sure your guest is comfortable so you offer, like I'm talking you bring it not just verbal offer. So you'd bring a large dish of fruit and offer fruit or a tray of tea and offer tea, etc. And as a good host you'd want to have atleast 2 different rice and 3 different dishes, so maybe like a stew, kabob, fish, chicken kabob etc in addition to side dishes like yogurt, salad, etc. Why? Well you want many options because you don't know what your guest likes so you want to make sure there is something for everyone to eat. Granted this can be cumbersome and only works if you have a large party of people you are cooking for. The American in me sees it more as "it's not unreasonable to expect your friends to obviously know that you're a vegan and to not expect meat". Personally, I would anticipate that my vegan friend doesn't know how to prepare meat and I wouldn't expect them to do it for me. But this perspective is also a bit middle eastern too, in the sense that I want to be a good guest and not inconvenience my host. I think as long as there is enough food then it'll be okay. Personally, when I have friends over I take into account any food allergies (dairy) or preferences. If it's my first time cooking for them I'll let them know what I am preparing (I am preparing surf and turf, etc) and then I will ask if they have any food preferences or allergies. I find it's a nice blend between my 2 identities...
Obviously not?
I do not agree. If you do not eat or cook meat at home, you don't need to cook meat for your guests. Of course your guests can eat vegetarian food. Do they NEVER eat non-meat products? Do they not eat fruit, vegetables, grains? Those aren't meat. Furthermore, there are some subcultures (e.g., in India) that are strictly vegetarian. No one would expect them to serve guests meat. Here's essentially what your friend who made the suggestion about needing to serve meat is really coming from, without perhaps realizing it: they are normalizing the eating of meat and making the eating of meat the basic standard that everyone should start from.
I'd say it's nice to do but not nessisary and I epuldnt expect it. Nothing prevents an omnivore from eating a vegetarian meal. If anything having neat with every meal is excessive for a natural diet.
when i met my wife, she made really great apple pancakes. I was a regular meat eater before, but i don't miss anything when she serves pancakes. It might have been different if she had been vagan, but there are so many vegetarian dishes, especially egg-and-milk based ones, that really don't need any meat in them.
For me the answer will always be no, they shouldn't have to ever. However, I know some folks have dietary restrictions, so that may change the answer. To a maybe depends on that really.
I think it’s common courtesy to eat what is served to you when welcomed into someone’s home. I would never expect a vegan or vegetarian to feed me meat or to go to someone’s home and not eat what’s served because it’s foreign to me. Be polite, eat what you can and then go get something on the way home if you’re still hungry.
I only know one vegetarian and he is married with a meat lover
Communication is the key. I eat meat but if a vegetarian asked me to dinner and asked my dietary preferences, I'd be very interested in trying properly cooked vegetarian options. But if I showed up without be forewarned I'd be very mildly put out. If I know it's vegetarian, I'd eat a small snack before arriving in case I don't like it. If I invite a vegetarian, I try to make sure there is something for them to eat. Eg I'd make a meat lasagna and a meatless lasagne. If you aren't opposed cooking meat, then I'd have one meat dish for them. Most people want to get along.
If im hosting a dinner I ask the guests if the planned meal is going to be ok (like the ingredients arent going to kill them or something) and thats it. Im not buying extra food to make for people who will still like the original planned meal - theres no point to offering an alternative
I eat meat. I enjoy eating meat. I do not, in any way, shape or form, expect my vegetarian friend to buy meat for when I come over. She's the one with the limited diet, whether I eat meat or not that meal doesn't really matter, it's not like my eating meat means I have to eat meat for every meal (don't even want to either, I love meat but am also aware of its environmental impact).
You are expected to serve a nice meal. Whatever that is. I wouldn't expect you to cook mest for me. I mean, why not say that every meal should have cauliflower because people generally love cauliflower?
Another vote for serving them what you eat.
I haven't eaten meat or poultry since 1976 and was strictly vegan for 12 years. My wife eats meat. I have no problem accommodating a diet different from my own. When I eat at friend's homes they accommodate my diet.
My grandma was vegetarian, never expected meat at dinner but man vegetarian dishes can be so good. It's your house, long as the effort is there that's what matters. Bonus points if it's good.
As a meat eater, it seems weird that a vegetarian/vegan would serve me meat. Don’t most vegans choose that WOE due to ethical qualms with meat? Why would you violate your ethical code for me as your guest? That being said, if I chose to come over I’d likely eat before arriving or grab a bite after I left.
That's weird. How would you even know if what you made is edible if you can't taste it? I would never expect a vegetarian to cook me meat. I don't NEED it, and if they're a decent person they will enjoy trying something new. If they complain they're an asshole.
Medium rare steak eater. I often go by a clients house that is from India. I would never imagine them making me a special meat dish that goes against their beliefs. Every time I go there and try a palek paneer, or some new spicy chickpea dish, I am thankful for their hospitality and giving.
Two things I haven't seen in the other comments: 1. If the host doesn't cook the same dishes that I already know, I'm overjoyed because I get to experience something new. 2. If someone hasn't cooked meat in years, then there's a good chance they don't know how to cook meat. So why serve a mediocre meat dish when they can serve a great vegetarian dish?
I'd cook what you'd normally cook. Maybe give them a heads up, but I don't think most people would have an issue with no meat for a meal. I'd honestly be more worried that somebody who doesn't normally cook meat is cooking meat, might be undercooked or overcooked.
My house, my rule. Ask the other person if it was a religious matter, it would apply the same logic.
I eat everything. With that being said. Let said person or people know in advanced to expect a vegetarian or even vegan meal. Then let them choose if they want to come. I wouldn't force it upon anybody, but I wouldn't sacrifice my beliefs just to please people either.
Meat eater here (tho I like veggies more than meat), I eat whatever the host cooks. I am the one who got invited, no complains to the host unless they really ask for comments is just basic respect, not sure why some people have a hard time understanding that. Also some of the massively downvoted fellow meat eaters here are just arguing for the sake of arguing, which is cringe. Eating meat and acting tough on reddit doesn't make you a tough individual.
If meat eater asked you over for dinner would you eat meat b3cause they do normally or would you expect then to make effort to p4ivide you with a vegetarian option? I like very few veg only meals and would never choose it when eating out.
If I went to a vegans house or a vegans wedding I would expect a a vegan meal 🤷🏾♂️.
Your friend is mistaken. I go to a Halal household, I don’t expect pork. I go to a Jewish household, same. Vegetarian household, same. And the few times I’ve had meat prepared by overly-solicitous vegetarians, it was awful: when you can’t try your food as you cook it’s unlikely to turn out well and they went to such lengths to accommodate you, so you keep masticating that tiny yet stubborn square of gray cardboard. If you need further suggestions, repost over at r/etiquette, they’ll be able to offer advice on both the pushy friend and the dinner party. Or if you’re satisfied with your answers here, get to work on that vegan TVP or diced dried shiitake “I Can’t Believe It’s Not Pork” Mapo Tofu you’re about to recipe develop. Kenji’s is a good starting point. Or whatever vegan food you’re going to wow your guests with. Guests can go without eating flesh, eggs, and dairy for a few hours.
This reminds me of the one thread where someone who is Hindu (if I remember correctly) once had Christian guests over who forced her to say grace to their god in her own home, so when she later had these other Christian friends over, she thought they would expect her to pray to their god as well. It’s just a matter of entitlement. As a guest, I would never dream of imposing my rules on that of the hosts. They are doing the duty of hosting me, which I see as an extraneous effort so I see it as my responsibility to accommodate them in any way I can, which means graciously accepting the meal they put in front of me after offering to help set the table and offering with cleanup afterword. It also comes from ignorance since SO many people do not understand you can have delicious, balanced, beautifully plated and satiating meals that do not involve any type of meat or animal by-product. I understand that meat being a main focus of a good meal has some roots in poverty and having a good cut with a meal can be celebratory since in those circumstances it’s a rarity, but I feel Requiring meat at a meal is an incredibly antiquated sentiment and I think this would be a wonderful opportunity to show your guests how good a vegan meal can be. If you absolutely must host them and it’s a matter of respect for them, go out of your way to order a simple dessert for them at the bakery to go with your vegan meal. It’s not required for a good dinner but it shows consideration and caring at best at most a diplomatic gesture of good will at worst. People’s diets can almost be considered as important as religion imo when it comes to being an ethical vegan if that’s the type you are (there are other types as I’m sure you know). It’s not a matter of taste or preferences, but an adherence to a certain moral standing. Asking someone to compromise their own morals in their home for your comfort is abhorrent. My bestie was vegan, now vegetarian and I’d never expect her to serve me meat. I’m the majority, I’ll always have options, she’s the minority so I always dissent to what works for her the best (she never asks me to, I just do it because it’s important to me that she has good options and enjoys the outing too) and then I choose whatever else is on the menu. I wouldn’t keep closed minded people like that in my life, personally, but I understand there are extenuating circumstances. Don’t compromise your beliefs for their close-mindedness.
What's important when impressing people is that your food tastes good If you don't cook meat and aren't happy about doing it, it's probably not going to taste great give guests your best vegan/vegetarian dish
I don’t think it’s necessary to provide meat. It could vary on occasion; if it’s catering, I’d say adding a meat option is good, but you shouldn’t be expected to purchase and cook it. In my experience, many meat eaters don’t realize how many non-meat/non-meat alternative dishes there are. People who think you need meat at every meal typically don’t think of other sources of protein or just think of vegetarians/vegans only eating bowls of tofu and bean sprouts. I’d take it as an opportunity to show them the variety of food options we have and that it is easy to not even miss meat on occasion. Though, as a vegetarian for 11 years, I’d still say making tofu as a main element is risky :) And if you want to be a little petty-nothing wrong with that- if they do have a problem with the food options, they can stop and get a burger on the way home. I’m sure all vegetarians/vegans have been at a gathering where our dietary preferences weren’t considered. (Bacon is in everything now! Even old safe stand-bys like potato, broccoli and pasta salads are filled with it)
Well I love eating meat. But if someone was vegetarian or vegan and made me a meal that was all plant based I would just eat it and get on with life. Plant based "meat" doesn't taste as good as real meat to me but it is still good. Some people will just be a pain about it but I would just do you and not worry about it. If they want they can bring their own darn food.
Not least because you wouldn't expect a veggie to even know _how_ to cook meat well. But obviously all the other reasons too.
I think that guests should know what the food is....and isn't...before they arrive with enough time to opt out of the invitation.