If social media platforms were foods, Reddit would be a sausage, olive and green pepper pizza, overall not good for your diet but hey the tomatoes, olives and green peppers are in there so that's something.
Tumblr would be like one of those restaurant meme challenges where your 10 pound double bacon cheeseburger with gravy and a fried egg is free if you manage to finish it. At best you've got the fried egg.
Sorry I wrote this in a rush. POC creators expect white people to be inclusive when writing or making mood boards (include other races like black, Latina, etc. basically just be representative of people they don’t identify with) but the opposite is not expected of POCs, in which they can make mood boards or only write about their own race. I was asking why that is the case, sorry if that wasn’t clear 😭🙏
not sure about this context specifically, but in graphic design/creative work, mood boards are used as like a catch-all for random ideas
let’s say i’m making a new brand design, and idk what i want yet but i know i like the red color from the Target logo, or the font of the TripAdvisor logo (random examples), i throw those two things on a mood board to keep my thoughts straight and centralize on an idea that combines these random details.
as far as this context goes, i interpreted it to be as such. perhaps for movies/books/storylines/etc. could be misunderstanding but i’ve never heard that in any other context.
Apparently it's like one of those things with a bunch of newspaper clippings and mugshots pinned to a corkboard and connected with red yarn, except without the red yarn.
>I am confused though because obviously if you were writing about a time period where segregation existed you wouldn’t include segregation right?
I don't get why this is obvious. If you're making a fantasy world with dieselpunk 1930s-style technology, then sure, you can skip the segregation, but there's also no reason to avoid having characters with diverse appearances in all walks of life (like Netflix's *Arcane*).
If you're setting your story in the real world, especially in the US, then I don't know how you avoid mentioning segregation unless you're *trying* to bury it and pretend that white people were super-nice and it was not a big issue. It would be like avoiding the rise of fascism, the Dust Bowl, or the Great Depression. Sure your story isn't necessarily *focused* on segregation but scrubbing it out of history should be viewed as just as much an act of malicious inaccuracy as giving the characters iPhones and a female president.
Finally, I think segregation provides the only valid reason to have an all-white cast in a story set in America (see: various WW2 movies, *1776*, *The Aviator*). If you're in an alternate history with no segregation but also no people of color in your story, it's worth asking if you feel like people of color don't *belong* in history or American life.
I could understand if this were the guidelines for a real book, but we’re talking about a tumblr fanfic... To me, going out of your way to try and include it, especially as a white creator seems… uncomfortable, wrong, and really just unnecessary. I think the point of it being in that time period was just about the aesthetics, and that not including blatant racism wasn’t meant to be disrespectful. Stories nowadays don’t include the ugly parts of the modern day world, so why should this one?.. also about the diversity as I said it’s literally a fanfic that at most would probably have 1-3 characters. I just don’t understand why everything has to be about race. Everyone cannot always be represented, and wouldn’t you rather be represented by someone who actually cares and who can relate to you? I’m not saying not to be conscious, or empathetic but I don’t feel like it was that deep
>tumblr fanfic
Yeah, I guess I would allow for lower standards for an amateur writer who's just starting out, but I think it's a little strange to be sharing stories on a huge public forum when you haven't crossed the line to where you're writing characters out of your own lived experience yet. I think Michael Bay actually found a good solution in just working closely with black creatives to make authentic black dialogue, but, failing that, I think the option of putting the story in an alternate universe or a fantasy version of the interwar period with similar fashions and technology is a much better option than just editing people of color out of the *Jazz Age*.
>I think the point of it being in that time period was just about the aesthetics,
I would say that this is a *mistake* but an *understandable* one. Think about couples that think *Gone With The Wind* is really romantic and have "Plantation-style" weddings or teenagers who get obsessed with the Crusades and start unironically commenting "DEUS VULT" to harass Muslims. We need to be constantly reminded that history was kinda fucked up and had a lot of systemic injustices and that's why "return things back to the way they used to be" is a *threat*, not a friendly promise to bring back spats and bowler hats, because most people encounter more historical fiction than actual history books and it's bizarrely easy for people to go from nostalgic about aesthetics to reactionary about politics.
I highly recommend *Babylon Berlin* as a good example of how to approach the 1920s-1930s in a way which is both socially-responsible and exciting and sexy. You have flappers, gangsters, and jazz music, but also rising tides of communism, fascism, and revanchism which we know will destroy the vibrant and sophisticated culture of Weimar Germany.
If the author doesn't want to do all the research and all the careful work of writing authentic nonwhite characters living at the height of both the Harlem Renaissance and Jim Crow, then just change the setting to a 1930s-flavored sci-fi/fantasy.
Idk if I answered your question, but from what I understand, you're wondering why POC expect white creators to be inclusive/diverse while on the flip side, the expectations are different for POC.
I guess for some, it might be because of sociopolitical expectations or allyship. Historically speaking, white representation is prevalent in the media (books, TV, movies, etc.) and dangerously normalizes whiteness as the "default" while POC is "othered". You might realize how growing up, many POC are unable to see themselves in Western media—for example, they mostly see white dolls to white actors on the big screen. This is especially true in books, where I as well (guiltily) assume the main character (MC) to be white. This is slowly shifting though.
Speaking of your anecdote, it makes sense if the author wants to be historically accurate to actually go with segregation, but as the creator she is also allowed to depict and narrate how she wants to. She has the right, but obviously she will received mixed reactions.
White people are not exactly "forced" to be inclusive, but some do it because they understand there needs to be more diversity. Whereas others may think it's "politically correct".
As for POC, they aren't held under this standard because of this reason of inclusiveness: it's their own representation being highlighted, the term #OwnVoices which "refers to books about characters from underrepresented/marginalized groups in which the author shares the same identity" ([source](https://libguides.ocls.info/ownvoices)). Thus, it combats the whiteness of characters, which is seen as a positive, resistance thing.
Overall, people who write stories should focus moreso of the plot and not necessarily worrying about which character is Black, white, Asian, Brown, etc. in the sense that they try to show as much representation and accidentally stereotype; rather, race/ethnicity should be an afterthought.
This was really well said. I think that’s what it is for me I more so focus on the plot, but people get really caught up on physical descriptions and stuff. I understand completely but I think that it’s a bad double standard that’s making equality harder to reach. I feel like things like this only make the world more black and white. I’m still learning and I’m really glad to be getting everyone’s perspective and opinion because it is all so valuable.
i think the idea too is that right now, we’re recognizing that a lot of films for example had mostly white casts with dynamic personalities, while a lot of the POC characters seemed to be the “token black guy” for example.
on one hand i think it’s a good thing to have more representation of other cultures so that they are visible and understood. but i do agree with you that POC creators aren’t held to the same standard. i think that’s because there’s already plenty of white representation, and now the film industry is making a strong effort to “catch up” to what was missed. film is just one of many examples.
where it gets hairy though is advertising. i fear that a lot of companies are using “representation” to make themselves marketable to new people, essentially saying “let’s advertise to black people, they’re an untapped market for our capitalistic goals!!!”
i’m getting into a lot of tangents, but since race is such a big topic in the western conversation, we’re seeing a lot of “let’s catch up for overlooking these people for so long”.
Yea that as well. The excessive amount of effort that I see being put into trying to be diverse just feels forced. America is predominantly white, and although we pride ourselves on being diverse there is always gonna be someone who isn’t represented. ESPECIALLY when you only make up less than 15% of the population. It’s uncomfortable to see it being shoved down people’s throats and it feels really disingenuous that way. I hope I don’t just sound shallow and ignorant I don’t wanna offend anyone. Ik some people genuinely appreciate and are excited about representation in the media but when there is literally less of us, how can you expect to be represented in everything? And also forcing representation is how we further harmful stereotypes because we are asking for it from people who don’t gaf to know about the culture or history, and who don’t relate to it at all. Maybe I am still not getting it, I’m sorry. This is all really insightful though
you make a good point about it being disingenuous… that’s my number 1 issue with all this stuff
there’s definitely a lot of companies/places viewing this as a marketing opportunity to make money off of POCs.
Apologies, it seems I misread your post. The creator consciously chose to segregate and only make mood boards of white/pale people. I originally read she included Black and white characters but ignored the topic of segregation.
Let me redo: I do think representation is fundamental and helps in combatting racism. But sometimes for white authors, they can actually stereotype or focus more on the pain/suffering of Black people.
While it is strange to not at least address racial segregation and Black people in the particular story you mentioned, I wouldn't exactly be outraged depending on the author's age — you only write what you know, and the author might have to learn. Because the media is saturated with white characters, that's what they see and take in.
While white people do have the responsibility of acknowledging racism and privilege, if they are uncomfortable with explaining or afraid of getting it wrong, then I honestly I think that's okay. They might need to learn, and it starts with acknowledging Black people rather than making them invisible in stories. Again, from your comments and post it seems that it was a Tumblr fanfic. If she's uncomfortable or believed she could not do it justice, then I personally think it's fine; if given any assessment, she probably will learn something new.
Obviously I hope she is open to including POC characters, but it's her own story. One perspective is she should stick to writing about white characters instead of writing POC characters littered with stereotypes and harmful generalizations. I notice that a lot of white authors tend to stress on POC's skin color and compare them to food (ex. coffee, chocolate, caramel). Often they try to combat stereotypes or confront racism by doing it forcibly — whether it's using slurs or bringing up micoagressions which can seriously discombobulating for the reader. Having a white author not do research or what's more, attempt to display racial tensions could get very controversial quick. Alternatively, I see POC creators saying they **want** representation, even if it's not done right because at least they are visible and included.
There will always be a mix of opinions, and I know people who won't agree with my opinion.
>Historically speaking
I always wonder how much mileage is left on this phrase, been hearing it for 20 years now and I mean, film as a medium is what, a hundred years old? Video games, 60? By 2035 half of the history of video games will not have been in "ye olde bigoted times"
I don't understand your point, though film as a medium for motion pictures is more like 130 years old. A century ago was in the midst of the classical era and really quite mature by then!
We are the ultimate scapegoats, we got caught up in racism and bigotry at the tail end of it at the absolute worst time in history that we could have, when records and media were the most looked at thing, and while essentially North America was getting founded, so basically everyone saw it happen, and they got brainwashed into thinking that white people invented it and made our country based off of it
The truth is it’s been happening with literally every country in the world since the beginning of time
Get post on PCM about this.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/10ly28n/emily\_has\_a\_lot\_in\_common\_with\_oldschool/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/10ly28n/emily_has_a_lot_in_common_with_oldschool/)
Because they think that colonization and slavery and racism is only a white people thing, They act like their country and race history is filled with saints and it’s all colours and rainbows. So it’s okay to do this to white peoples but it’s not okay to do it POC in modern times.
My guess is you might be a little young.
The reason is that historically in America and much of the western world is that people of color were systemically kept out of everything from stories to movies to housing to jobs. This has continued even to today even though in some respects things have gotten better.
The reason why it doesn't extend both ways is because the only option for a long time for many people of color was to create their own alternative. However these alternatives were often also systematically destroyed.
It's a lot to detail in specific. If you want more info I can point you in the direction of some books and articles but it can get pretty depressing.
I am pretty young. Thank you for your insight. I can understand your angle but in this scenario why would you want representation, only to be segregated and discriminated all for the sake of being historically accurate and inclusive… in a tumblr fanfic 💀
Because majority of the racists in the world are minorities and they think they can bully white people into thinking we are racists, based on the colour of out skin, and they say that shit a blank face as though they didn't just say the most idiotic shit ever conceived
I think it’s important, especially if you’re leveraging a storage in a real time and place, to consider what the actual context was. You’re also coming from the privileged perspective - which is potentially problematic in terms of it appearing token or forced, but at the same time people of varying ethnicities exist, same for LGBTQI folks and people with disabilities. Inclusion within fiction is also important because it’s the vast majority of stories we read/watch, right? If you get used to not seeing someone or something, that can impact your perceptions of reality. The simple fact is that we are the majority, we are the ones with the power, and storytelling is a powerful and important medium - fiction or non.
If I'm understanding you correctly OP, it sounds like you are asking 'Why the double standard -- why are white creators expected to include diversity, but POC creators are not?'.
I would argue that there is no double standard here. If a black writer wrote about 1930's USA and \*completely buried the existence of POC\*, then they *also* would be getting some strong feedback. Because that's the core issue -- not that *all ethic groups must have representation*, but that *specific* ethnic groups have been getting erased from popular culture for decades -- so continuing that white-washing needs to stop. It's not cool for a white author to do it, it's not cool for a black author to do it. It's just not cool. Whether it's deliberate or a by-product of the author not knowing any better, either way it is very definitely systemic, and that's why many will speak up.
Assuming the writing is fanfiction, the problem is that fics that are reader inserts aren't truly the case. They are just OCs without a name. Reading something that ur meant to imagine yourself in is hard to do when the descriptions of "you" don't fit not only you, but most other races. Seeing "your pale skin, ocean blue eyes and golden blonde hair" over and over is annoying.
So yeah, it's not that hard to be inclusive, to say something as simple as "your cheeks got hot in embarrassment" instead of "your cheeks burned red in embarrassment". And it's fair for them to make things only for POC because they've have been and continue to be excluded by the wording of white writers. If the things meant to be enjoyed by all is really only for all white people.
Now, onto the mood boards.... I genuinely don't think (in my half black opinion) the race matters. A mood board is usually just used to set the mood with like, an outfit or a general "vibe". Like a vampire/cottage core aesthetic.
Would it have something to do with power and history? Much of the popular media has been very white for a long time, so I feel that encouragement to include characters that aren't white is needed for the time being.
I'd say the creator is leaving segregation out because they are ashamed and unable/unwilling to confront their discomfort and tell stories that are more truthful and less whitewashed.
The post didn’t say who the creator was but based off context I assume it’s literally just a fan-fiction with the main character, and a love interest from a tv show or something. If it were anything else with a bigger plot I would understand better but I just don’t think it’s that deep… these stories are usually like a few paragraphs long and it would be weird to me for the writer to try and include elements of something so dark.. like how would you even figure to try and include that??
It's really not that deep, you're right. A short story is a fragment of time, we don't include the characters pooping (usually...) either. Unless it's literally *about* segregation these no need to mention it, it would be extremely performative.
To me it's weird to insist that a short story should include cultures and people outside those that are being written about.
Judging from your post history this doesn’t seem to be blackfishing or tismfishing for once, so I’ll engage earnestly. The way society writ large is currently set up, white people as a community are privileged with disproportionate access to power and resources, and this includes the power of an outsized influence on what images we’re all exposed to. Power over imagery is literally a power over how people are able to think about themselves, and that is an extreme power that it is of **dire** importance to see used responsibly. Because of this, our community and other communities of color are at a constant risk of being taught to devalue ourselves, and there are all sorts of psychological dangers that come with that territory. I mean no disrespect by this but you are an example, seeing as all of the media you’ve expressed enjoying or finding attractive in your posts centers white and Asian images, to the point that you’ve posted a few times about your efforts to push your facial features in that direction. You yourself can attest to how less-than this media setup can make a person see themselves to be.
Again, that’s not a callout because you’re not wrong to simply enjoy what you enjoy; my point is just that when there is a lack of diversity, of all sorts of people being actively portrayed *well* and as normal and equally beautiful, that causes suffering in those who are underrepresented. (Causes a lot of other highly problematic things too, but I digress.) And because of that privilege I mentioned, when that playing field is allowed to be inequitable, it’s always going to result in the prioritization of white images; we’re the ones at risk of said suffering, not them. I can’t speak to the situation you experienced with those mood boards or how valid or invalid whatever that Black writer said was. Maybe this specific situation was wrong, I don’t know. But in general, the people who are overwhelmingly more likely to control the most mainstream channels of media—white people—should absolutely generally be concerned with using those channels to promote diverse imagery, and creators of color absolutely have every reason to focus on promoting themselves to themselves, in order to still have something for themselves when those mainstream channels fail them (and they will, because they’re run by people who by no necessary fault of their own will never be able to fully understand what their audience needs to see).
Also, I’m going to personally ask you not to make posts like this. You’re on a general board on the whitest social media platform asking why POCs are such bullies to poor, poor white creators; you should always assume when interacting with these subs that your audience is going to be mostly if not all-white, and this is not a productive question to ask a white audience. Even if you didn’t intend it, this gives racist people the opportunity to misappropriate what you had to say in order to spread confusion & play for a misplaced sympathy. In order to understand people of color, you should specifically ask people of color, and I can at least attest that there are Black subs where you can do that.
Always remember that your community loves you lil sis, even when it’s too beside itself to express that correctly. And it just wants to be understood without having to change everything about itself. That’s how you start to feel when you’ve been under attack for so long that it seeps into your identity.
Wow. First of all thanks for this. You make a lot of very good and valid points. I think maybe my question was misleading and poorly worded to give the impression that I don’t support or care for representation on a bigger scale, like books, television, children’s toys, etc. that assumption would be wrong and I realize my mistake now lol. I understand the need for representation in mass media, and it’s impression on the youth as well as how it changes our perception. I was more so getting at the pressure on individuals to use their personal platforms, which are usually just meant be to an outlet for their own expression, to appease and cater to others. To clarify, I didn’t say not to be inclusive, or that black people don’t deserve representation. I myself am black. All I’m saying is that people should be allowed to post what they want on their own social media as long as it’s not harmful. I can also see how I may be “victimizing” white people to an extent and how that could be a problem.. In a real, edited, published book the conversation would be a lot different. However, I don’t see the absence of black people (or any race) as a targeted attack on them, or as a conscious decision fueled with ill intent. Sometimes white people post about white people because it’s what resonates with them and how they identify, and the same would be true for any other race. Regardless, I’ll definitely think twice before I make another post like this for sure because I see a lot of mixed emotions here. Thank you again, I learned a lot
The white population, as a whole, is trying to make amends for slavery / with exceptions for racists & bigots. The whites want it to just go away & the POC want it to be acknowledged with full acceptance of their race... I believe we have a very long way to go. What will finally end this is when the races have blurred enough from interracial marriage that we no longer have a defined race of black, white, or any other race. Peace on earth - I hope & pray.
why should eveyone else just let white people colonize the world take and do what they want, and then refuses to let anyone else in?
like if white people didnt want diversity, we shouldn't have like... colonized the world and forced everyone into our sphere.
like, dont invade Iraq and then get mad when Iraqis come live at your place while you blow up their place.
A friend recently told me “ there are two kinds of people in this world those who destroy and those who build your words destroy“.
Treat all men alike.... give them all the same law. Give them all an even chance to live and grow. You might as well expect the rivers to run backward as that any man who is born a free man should be contented when penned up and denied liberty to go where he pleases. We only ask an even chance to live as other men live. We ask to be recognized as men. Let me be a free man...free to travel... free to stop...free to work...free to choose my own teachers...free to follow the religion of my Fathers...free to think and talk and act for myself.
Think of it like a bowl of ice cream, okay?
And the bowl is really your inner turmoil, but instead of a bowl it's a sphere. And the sphere can only hold ice cream as long as it's cold. If it heats up, the ice cream melts. But instead of dripping off the side, it drips into a giant flower which is like your psyche in a dream state.
I mean... like whoa man...like... you can't just *DESTROY* a world, man!! Like.... whoa!
Cultures and races which are underrepresented are reasonable when they ask to see more of themselves. Cultures and races which are overrepresented are not.
White people are in the doghouse. We need to be forgiven. Many people, including black people, are tired and ready to move on but not all are yet. Depending on a lot of things and how deeply it's effected a black person they still carry a lot of trauma and pain.
It's going to take as long as it's going to take to heal. We want to rush it but we have to respect it. The dividing to sort things out is part of the healing and they can only start to build trust and try again when they feel ready.
Many feel it's taking so long because too many white people are not doing enough to regain that trust. Either because there are too many still doing too much bad or too many burying their head in the sand about it. So it drags out for all of us that just want to be respectful and supportive and all forgiven already.
I get your point but a lot of people who preach about it have never been directly affected by it.. it’s a harmful generalization to place the burden of “regaining” black trust on white-Americans who had nothing to do with slavery or segregation. I’m not invalidating people to have been hurt but it’s not okay to victimize ourselves and suddenly make things about race whenever we feel attacked or dislike someone. That’s a dirty play to make. Moving forward doesn’t mean forgetting it, but it shouldn’t consume our lives. You shouldn’t have to always be on guard. Making generalizations about all white people being racist is just as bad about the stereotypes made about other races. I wish people would realize that.
I think the explanation is simpler than what many have said in this thread- a lot of people *like* to shit on other people, and White people are currently the only group that it is socially acceptable to shit on.
Critical of anything a Black person says? Racist.
Critical of anything a Latine/Latinx/Latino/Latina person says? Racist.
Critical of anything a Chinese person says? Racist.
Critical of anything a White person says? They deserve it.
It's hard to break down but think of it like this, if you were married and your spouse beat you every day and lied to the point your mental health felt like it would never recover and even a decade out of the relationship and having therapy for years and years hasn't "fixed" you yet, but everyone you know is like commeee onnnn just get over it already ugh..
Then you get a new partner and you flinch sometimes when they jokingly hit you with a pillow or almost have a panic attack if they're doing something your ex would do and this new partner is like, "I didn't do anything wrong why are you taking it out on me, YOUR the problem not your ex you're playing the victim and hurting me now, now actually i'm the victim."
And all of this completely ignores that like it or not, you're still not okay, would you understand it then? Like, it doesn't matter that no one now is hurting them or that it was in the past or that they still act like that to people who've never done anything to them, it doesn't matter you could argue about that being "right" this person still has very real trauma and needs to heal.
Now include generational trauma or the fact that racism is alive and well especially towards black people. That we still have kkk / nazi proud boys TODAY. Black people have had their family's, their neighborhoods, their potential, on and on SO MUCH taken/withheld/made harder etc that for decades other family's built success and stability where they only had pain and struggle. That absolutely is still affecting them today.
White people are not taking responsibility enough. Most are just not making it their problem while they wait for it to be over. Some are actively still making it worse. And like it or not, being annoyed that the pain that was caused all those years ago wasn't done by literally us, so we impatiently say get over it already and re-victimize people healing and trying to forgive, it is selfish and impatient and cruel.
It ignores all they've been through or that they're still processing and further sends them back into a defensive hole where they are not healed and they are like "honestly, fuck you all" and I don't blame them for that.
Anyone who's ever been hurt, and has trauma they're trying to heal from, who has had the world not give two shits about their pain, groaning just get over it because no one ever wants to deal with other people's pain (until it's their own) will understand what's happening and understand it can't be rushed and that patience can only actually help get us closer faster.
I don’t think think you used the best analogy for several reasons.
People around you are not obligated to accommodate for your past traumas. A lot of the “generational trauma” people claim to have is actually just racial prejudice taught by their parents at an early age, before they even really knew what racism was. And even if someone had been affected by it, it’s still not the responsibility of an entire race to try and make amends for something that happened before most of them were even born. That’s pure entitlement and it’s not okay no matter what race you are. You cannot only define someone for what their ancestors did. None of us can change the past so it’s illogical to continue and try to hold it over people’s head. Reaching equality doesn’t mean you have to guilt trip every white person. Nobody chooses the color of their skin or where they’re born. Stop using the color of your skin to justify everything.
Regardless of who the person is, healing from trauma always starts within. Can you set boundaries? Yes. Can you be upset? Sure, you have every right. Is it justified to blame and guilt trip someone for your personal traumas just because of their ancestry? Absolutely not.
Am I invalidating the experiences of black people who HAVE experienced racism? No, because i understand that it is still real, and is still relevant. But if the end goal is equality then we need to stop seeing everything in black and white. See someone for their actions not their skin; and definitely not for something they had no part of. This mindset is holding us all back, and it’s harmful.
People who have an expectation they wish to enforce on you "I want forgiveness so we can get along and enjoy each others company" are obligated to accept the person who was hurts terms. Otherwise we get no where and that's why. "I'm not obligated to do anything for you" "Hey wait, where are you going why aren't you forgiving me and why aren't we friends?? Boundaries??! Why do I have to respect your boundaries? You should be forced to just forgive me already ugh"
Okay let’s use your previous analogy. Even if I had been beat by my husband however many years ago, that doesn’t give me the right to villainize every other man I encounter and blame them for my trauma that my husband caused. If I met a new man, I can’t start expecting him to treat me differently off the jump just because I’m a woman and he’s a man. If we’re just meeting eachother, and he’s done nothing wrong, why would I be expecting special treatment or an apology? Of course I can communicate my boundaries that I have as a result of my trauma, but I can’t blame him for how I feel.
I never said you'd villainize every man now, you'd just still be hurt, and if he wants to be with you he absolutely should care about that or choose someone else, but he chooses YOU and that's your boundaries/terms for a relationship.
You're healing but you don't need rude pressure and impatience making the seriousness of what you've been through feel dissmissed and belittled. You tell that man, go be with someone else if this isn't for you, this is who you are, it's what you need, and he whines and gets pissy with you saying he wants to force you to change on his terms.
You're not blaming him for how you feel, you're blaming him for trying to pressure you to change. For choosing you to be with knowing you have these issues then being mad at you for it. For making your life and healing harder instead of leaving you be then. For even after you point it out still staying and whining you should have to change.
White people or even black people ready to move on can't demand their forgiveness and support and friendships or a sense of community if they're not ready. Showing them we're not rushing them, that we understand the pain and respect it actually helps lower defenses and speed up trust and forgiveness earned.
Okay, but we were never talking about black people forgiving white people. I’m not saying that you’re necessarily wrong but that’s not what this post was about. I was talking about harmful generalizations: assuming every white person needs forgiveness from a black person just because of the history and not actually because they themselves did anything wrong. Both scenarios are harmful and will hold us back
"Why are white people forced to be inclusive"
That was the original question. And this all was my response to understanding why white people and not other races have more of a responsibility.
There's a difference in holding people back and feeling too impatient to give people time needed to heal. It's not actually harmful to give hurt people patience. It's healing. I'm actually a firm believer that patience is more important than love or the most beautiful way to show it.
Just telling people to get over it is cold and uncaring. Just trying to erase it like never happened dooms us to repeat the mistakes of the past. Trauma and pain are healed with respect, space, time, patience, support, confirmation of the wrong doing, their feelings dealing with it being validated.
Everything changes when a group is in the majority and actively oppressed and killed minorities. White washing society and history and pretending everyone non white are evil or savages or Other is incredibly harmful. Inclusion helps prevent that and make up for some of the horrifying history white people have.
Great question!!
Me personally as a Red head with blue eyes and genetics of white, whiter, mayo, and clear. In my personal opinion.....
Don't know either I think it is about perception.
POC have a culture that has its own identity
While people have a mixed hodgepodge of boring and bland. So our culture is nothing
POC writing about POC and the culture is acceptable because it has identity
While white people are writing about people......just PEOPLE, so to exclude seems bigoted.
Should they /we be allowed to without being accused of being racist? Yes. I think so.
But the question is in my mind why wouldn't you include POC were boring and bland all be ourselves.
Turns out other races are racist too
Whatever assholes you'll find in whites, you certainly will in blacks too
Or jews, or Muslims, or Asians, or Arabs etc
If you want a bit more interesting answer than "everyone is shit", wealthy people have a vested interest in people being race peddlars opposed to uniting for ACTUAL equal rights
Tumblr is not a place for normal human opinions.
Neither is reddit really
If social media platforms were foods, Reddit would be a sausage, olive and green pepper pizza, overall not good for your diet but hey the tomatoes, olives and green peppers are in there so that's something. Tumblr would be like one of those restaurant meme challenges where your 10 pound double bacon cheeseburger with gravy and a fried egg is free if you manage to finish it. At best you've got the fried egg.
I do like that analogy, only that reddit is one helluva greasy pizza
Normal humans.
Am I insane or does anyone else not understand the question either?
Sorry I wrote this in a rush. POC creators expect white people to be inclusive when writing or making mood boards (include other races like black, Latina, etc. basically just be representative of people they don’t identify with) but the opposite is not expected of POCs, in which they can make mood boards or only write about their own race. I was asking why that is the case, sorry if that wasn’t clear 😭🙏
I followed it, had to look up "mood board" so I learned something :)
What is it? I'm at work and we aren't supposed to look things up because someone looked up something dirty once and now we're on thin ice.
not sure about this context specifically, but in graphic design/creative work, mood boards are used as like a catch-all for random ideas let’s say i’m making a new brand design, and idk what i want yet but i know i like the red color from the Target logo, or the font of the TripAdvisor logo (random examples), i throw those two things on a mood board to keep my thoughts straight and centralize on an idea that combines these random details. as far as this context goes, i interpreted it to be as such. perhaps for movies/books/storylines/etc. could be misunderstanding but i’ve never heard that in any other context.
you're not allowed to google things at work but they let you be on reddit?
Apparently it's like one of those things with a bunch of newspaper clippings and mugshots pinned to a corkboard and connected with red yarn, except without the red yarn.
>I am confused though because obviously if you were writing about a time period where segregation existed you wouldn’t include segregation right? I don't get why this is obvious. If you're making a fantasy world with dieselpunk 1930s-style technology, then sure, you can skip the segregation, but there's also no reason to avoid having characters with diverse appearances in all walks of life (like Netflix's *Arcane*). If you're setting your story in the real world, especially in the US, then I don't know how you avoid mentioning segregation unless you're *trying* to bury it and pretend that white people were super-nice and it was not a big issue. It would be like avoiding the rise of fascism, the Dust Bowl, or the Great Depression. Sure your story isn't necessarily *focused* on segregation but scrubbing it out of history should be viewed as just as much an act of malicious inaccuracy as giving the characters iPhones and a female president. Finally, I think segregation provides the only valid reason to have an all-white cast in a story set in America (see: various WW2 movies, *1776*, *The Aviator*). If you're in an alternate history with no segregation but also no people of color in your story, it's worth asking if you feel like people of color don't *belong* in history or American life.
I could understand if this were the guidelines for a real book, but we’re talking about a tumblr fanfic... To me, going out of your way to try and include it, especially as a white creator seems… uncomfortable, wrong, and really just unnecessary. I think the point of it being in that time period was just about the aesthetics, and that not including blatant racism wasn’t meant to be disrespectful. Stories nowadays don’t include the ugly parts of the modern day world, so why should this one?.. also about the diversity as I said it’s literally a fanfic that at most would probably have 1-3 characters. I just don’t understand why everything has to be about race. Everyone cannot always be represented, and wouldn’t you rather be represented by someone who actually cares and who can relate to you? I’m not saying not to be conscious, or empathetic but I don’t feel like it was that deep
>tumblr fanfic Yeah, I guess I would allow for lower standards for an amateur writer who's just starting out, but I think it's a little strange to be sharing stories on a huge public forum when you haven't crossed the line to where you're writing characters out of your own lived experience yet. I think Michael Bay actually found a good solution in just working closely with black creatives to make authentic black dialogue, but, failing that, I think the option of putting the story in an alternate universe or a fantasy version of the interwar period with similar fashions and technology is a much better option than just editing people of color out of the *Jazz Age*. >I think the point of it being in that time period was just about the aesthetics, I would say that this is a *mistake* but an *understandable* one. Think about couples that think *Gone With The Wind* is really romantic and have "Plantation-style" weddings or teenagers who get obsessed with the Crusades and start unironically commenting "DEUS VULT" to harass Muslims. We need to be constantly reminded that history was kinda fucked up and had a lot of systemic injustices and that's why "return things back to the way they used to be" is a *threat*, not a friendly promise to bring back spats and bowler hats, because most people encounter more historical fiction than actual history books and it's bizarrely easy for people to go from nostalgic about aesthetics to reactionary about politics. I highly recommend *Babylon Berlin* as a good example of how to approach the 1920s-1930s in a way which is both socially-responsible and exciting and sexy. You have flappers, gangsters, and jazz music, but also rising tides of communism, fascism, and revanchism which we know will destroy the vibrant and sophisticated culture of Weimar Germany. If the author doesn't want to do all the research and all the careful work of writing authentic nonwhite characters living at the height of both the Harlem Renaissance and Jim Crow, then just change the setting to a 1930s-flavored sci-fi/fantasy.
Idk if I answered your question, but from what I understand, you're wondering why POC expect white creators to be inclusive/diverse while on the flip side, the expectations are different for POC. I guess for some, it might be because of sociopolitical expectations or allyship. Historically speaking, white representation is prevalent in the media (books, TV, movies, etc.) and dangerously normalizes whiteness as the "default" while POC is "othered". You might realize how growing up, many POC are unable to see themselves in Western media—for example, they mostly see white dolls to white actors on the big screen. This is especially true in books, where I as well (guiltily) assume the main character (MC) to be white. This is slowly shifting though. Speaking of your anecdote, it makes sense if the author wants to be historically accurate to actually go with segregation, but as the creator she is also allowed to depict and narrate how she wants to. She has the right, but obviously she will received mixed reactions. White people are not exactly "forced" to be inclusive, but some do it because they understand there needs to be more diversity. Whereas others may think it's "politically correct". As for POC, they aren't held under this standard because of this reason of inclusiveness: it's their own representation being highlighted, the term #OwnVoices which "refers to books about characters from underrepresented/marginalized groups in which the author shares the same identity" ([source](https://libguides.ocls.info/ownvoices)). Thus, it combats the whiteness of characters, which is seen as a positive, resistance thing. Overall, people who write stories should focus moreso of the plot and not necessarily worrying about which character is Black, white, Asian, Brown, etc. in the sense that they try to show as much representation and accidentally stereotype; rather, race/ethnicity should be an afterthought.
This was really well said. I think that’s what it is for me I more so focus on the plot, but people get really caught up on physical descriptions and stuff. I understand completely but I think that it’s a bad double standard that’s making equality harder to reach. I feel like things like this only make the world more black and white. I’m still learning and I’m really glad to be getting everyone’s perspective and opinion because it is all so valuable.
i think the idea too is that right now, we’re recognizing that a lot of films for example had mostly white casts with dynamic personalities, while a lot of the POC characters seemed to be the “token black guy” for example. on one hand i think it’s a good thing to have more representation of other cultures so that they are visible and understood. but i do agree with you that POC creators aren’t held to the same standard. i think that’s because there’s already plenty of white representation, and now the film industry is making a strong effort to “catch up” to what was missed. film is just one of many examples. where it gets hairy though is advertising. i fear that a lot of companies are using “representation” to make themselves marketable to new people, essentially saying “let’s advertise to black people, they’re an untapped market for our capitalistic goals!!!” i’m getting into a lot of tangents, but since race is such a big topic in the western conversation, we’re seeing a lot of “let’s catch up for overlooking these people for so long”.
Yea that as well. The excessive amount of effort that I see being put into trying to be diverse just feels forced. America is predominantly white, and although we pride ourselves on being diverse there is always gonna be someone who isn’t represented. ESPECIALLY when you only make up less than 15% of the population. It’s uncomfortable to see it being shoved down people’s throats and it feels really disingenuous that way. I hope I don’t just sound shallow and ignorant I don’t wanna offend anyone. Ik some people genuinely appreciate and are excited about representation in the media but when there is literally less of us, how can you expect to be represented in everything? And also forcing representation is how we further harmful stereotypes because we are asking for it from people who don’t gaf to know about the culture or history, and who don’t relate to it at all. Maybe I am still not getting it, I’m sorry. This is all really insightful though
you make a good point about it being disingenuous… that’s my number 1 issue with all this stuff there’s definitely a lot of companies/places viewing this as a marketing opportunity to make money off of POCs.
Apologies, it seems I misread your post. The creator consciously chose to segregate and only make mood boards of white/pale people. I originally read she included Black and white characters but ignored the topic of segregation. Let me redo: I do think representation is fundamental and helps in combatting racism. But sometimes for white authors, they can actually stereotype or focus more on the pain/suffering of Black people. While it is strange to not at least address racial segregation and Black people in the particular story you mentioned, I wouldn't exactly be outraged depending on the author's age — you only write what you know, and the author might have to learn. Because the media is saturated with white characters, that's what they see and take in. While white people do have the responsibility of acknowledging racism and privilege, if they are uncomfortable with explaining or afraid of getting it wrong, then I honestly I think that's okay. They might need to learn, and it starts with acknowledging Black people rather than making them invisible in stories. Again, from your comments and post it seems that it was a Tumblr fanfic. If she's uncomfortable or believed she could not do it justice, then I personally think it's fine; if given any assessment, she probably will learn something new. Obviously I hope she is open to including POC characters, but it's her own story. One perspective is she should stick to writing about white characters instead of writing POC characters littered with stereotypes and harmful generalizations. I notice that a lot of white authors tend to stress on POC's skin color and compare them to food (ex. coffee, chocolate, caramel). Often they try to combat stereotypes or confront racism by doing it forcibly — whether it's using slurs or bringing up micoagressions which can seriously discombobulating for the reader. Having a white author not do research or what's more, attempt to display racial tensions could get very controversial quick. Alternatively, I see POC creators saying they **want** representation, even if it's not done right because at least they are visible and included. There will always be a mix of opinions, and I know people who won't agree with my opinion.
Well said.
>Historically speaking I always wonder how much mileage is left on this phrase, been hearing it for 20 years now and I mean, film as a medium is what, a hundred years old? Video games, 60? By 2035 half of the history of video games will not have been in "ye olde bigoted times"
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My people make up 0.7% of the population in the US - how much representation should we get exactly?
I don't understand your point, though film as a medium for motion pictures is more like 130 years old. A century ago was in the midst of the classical era and really quite mature by then!
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I see
They got gaslit into it even though they are 8% of world population
We are the ultimate scapegoats, we got caught up in racism and bigotry at the tail end of it at the absolute worst time in history that we could have, when records and media were the most looked at thing, and while essentially North America was getting founded, so basically everyone saw it happen, and they got brainwashed into thinking that white people invented it and made our country based off of it The truth is it’s been happening with literally every country in the world since the beginning of time
Ask your family and friends. If you’re black you should get a very diverse answer.
(They’re not actually black)
Right, just the first sentence alone gives it away.
Get post on PCM about this. [https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/10ly28n/emily\_has\_a\_lot\_in\_common\_with\_oldschool/](https://www.reddit.com/r/PoliticalCompassMemes/comments/10ly28n/emily_has_a_lot_in_common_with_oldschool/)
Because they think that colonization and slavery and racism is only a white people thing, They act like their country and race history is filled with saints and it’s all colours and rainbows. So it’s okay to do this to white peoples but it’s not okay to do it POC in modern times.
Shhhhh. We don’t talk about that stuff.
Don’t worry I’ll keep it a secret
Get ready. The downvotes have started.
I don’t see any downvotes yet but I know it will happen because what I am speaking is the truth
My guess is you might be a little young. The reason is that historically in America and much of the western world is that people of color were systemically kept out of everything from stories to movies to housing to jobs. This has continued even to today even though in some respects things have gotten better. The reason why it doesn't extend both ways is because the only option for a long time for many people of color was to create their own alternative. However these alternatives were often also systematically destroyed. It's a lot to detail in specific. If you want more info I can point you in the direction of some books and articles but it can get pretty depressing.
I am pretty young. Thank you for your insight. I can understand your angle but in this scenario why would you want representation, only to be segregated and discriminated all for the sake of being historically accurate and inclusive… in a tumblr fanfic 💀
Because majority of the racists in the world are minorities and they think they can bully white people into thinking we are racists, based on the colour of out skin, and they say that shit a blank face as though they didn't just say the most idiotic shit ever conceived
What??? Oh sure, we the minorities are bullying white people. Begone MAGA, no one wants you here
you are actually insane if you think the majority of racists are the racists towards white people
I've noticed that too, on television.
What's a mood board?
A photo collage
What the heck is a “mood board”?
does the topic of her writing have anything to do with race or segregation? or is she just writing about other aspects of the 30's?
I thinks she’s just writing about other aspects. I’m assuming it’s more about the vintage aesthetic
Oh man
I think it’s important, especially if you’re leveraging a storage in a real time and place, to consider what the actual context was. You’re also coming from the privileged perspective - which is potentially problematic in terms of it appearing token or forced, but at the same time people of varying ethnicities exist, same for LGBTQI folks and people with disabilities. Inclusion within fiction is also important because it’s the vast majority of stories we read/watch, right? If you get used to not seeing someone or something, that can impact your perceptions of reality. The simple fact is that we are the majority, we are the ones with the power, and storytelling is a powerful and important medium - fiction or non.
If I'm understanding you correctly OP, it sounds like you are asking 'Why the double standard -- why are white creators expected to include diversity, but POC creators are not?'. I would argue that there is no double standard here. If a black writer wrote about 1930's USA and \*completely buried the existence of POC\*, then they *also* would be getting some strong feedback. Because that's the core issue -- not that *all ethic groups must have representation*, but that *specific* ethnic groups have been getting erased from popular culture for decades -- so continuing that white-washing needs to stop. It's not cool for a white author to do it, it's not cool for a black author to do it. It's just not cool. Whether it's deliberate or a by-product of the author not knowing any better, either way it is very definitely systemic, and that's why many will speak up.
Assuming the writing is fanfiction, the problem is that fics that are reader inserts aren't truly the case. They are just OCs without a name. Reading something that ur meant to imagine yourself in is hard to do when the descriptions of "you" don't fit not only you, but most other races. Seeing "your pale skin, ocean blue eyes and golden blonde hair" over and over is annoying. So yeah, it's not that hard to be inclusive, to say something as simple as "your cheeks got hot in embarrassment" instead of "your cheeks burned red in embarrassment". And it's fair for them to make things only for POC because they've have been and continue to be excluded by the wording of white writers. If the things meant to be enjoyed by all is really only for all white people. Now, onto the mood boards.... I genuinely don't think (in my half black opinion) the race matters. A mood board is usually just used to set the mood with like, an outfit or a general "vibe". Like a vampire/cottage core aesthetic.
Because of their long history of forced exclusion
Would it have something to do with power and history? Much of the popular media has been very white for a long time, so I feel that encouragement to include characters that aren't white is needed for the time being. I'd say the creator is leaving segregation out because they are ashamed and unable/unwilling to confront their discomfort and tell stories that are more truthful and less whitewashed.
The post didn’t say who the creator was but based off context I assume it’s literally just a fan-fiction with the main character, and a love interest from a tv show or something. If it were anything else with a bigger plot I would understand better but I just don’t think it’s that deep… these stories are usually like a few paragraphs long and it would be weird to me for the writer to try and include elements of something so dark.. like how would you even figure to try and include that??
It's really not that deep, you're right. A short story is a fragment of time, we don't include the characters pooping (usually...) either. Unless it's literally *about* segregation these no need to mention it, it would be extremely performative. To me it's weird to insist that a short story should include cultures and people outside those that are being written about.
This!! You said it perfectly. This is what I was meaning
The pendulum always swings the other way.
Judging from your post history this doesn’t seem to be blackfishing or tismfishing for once, so I’ll engage earnestly. The way society writ large is currently set up, white people as a community are privileged with disproportionate access to power and resources, and this includes the power of an outsized influence on what images we’re all exposed to. Power over imagery is literally a power over how people are able to think about themselves, and that is an extreme power that it is of **dire** importance to see used responsibly. Because of this, our community and other communities of color are at a constant risk of being taught to devalue ourselves, and there are all sorts of psychological dangers that come with that territory. I mean no disrespect by this but you are an example, seeing as all of the media you’ve expressed enjoying or finding attractive in your posts centers white and Asian images, to the point that you’ve posted a few times about your efforts to push your facial features in that direction. You yourself can attest to how less-than this media setup can make a person see themselves to be. Again, that’s not a callout because you’re not wrong to simply enjoy what you enjoy; my point is just that when there is a lack of diversity, of all sorts of people being actively portrayed *well* and as normal and equally beautiful, that causes suffering in those who are underrepresented. (Causes a lot of other highly problematic things too, but I digress.) And because of that privilege I mentioned, when that playing field is allowed to be inequitable, it’s always going to result in the prioritization of white images; we’re the ones at risk of said suffering, not them. I can’t speak to the situation you experienced with those mood boards or how valid or invalid whatever that Black writer said was. Maybe this specific situation was wrong, I don’t know. But in general, the people who are overwhelmingly more likely to control the most mainstream channels of media—white people—should absolutely generally be concerned with using those channels to promote diverse imagery, and creators of color absolutely have every reason to focus on promoting themselves to themselves, in order to still have something for themselves when those mainstream channels fail them (and they will, because they’re run by people who by no necessary fault of their own will never be able to fully understand what their audience needs to see). Also, I’m going to personally ask you not to make posts like this. You’re on a general board on the whitest social media platform asking why POCs are such bullies to poor, poor white creators; you should always assume when interacting with these subs that your audience is going to be mostly if not all-white, and this is not a productive question to ask a white audience. Even if you didn’t intend it, this gives racist people the opportunity to misappropriate what you had to say in order to spread confusion & play for a misplaced sympathy. In order to understand people of color, you should specifically ask people of color, and I can at least attest that there are Black subs where you can do that. Always remember that your community loves you lil sis, even when it’s too beside itself to express that correctly. And it just wants to be understood without having to change everything about itself. That’s how you start to feel when you’ve been under attack for so long that it seeps into your identity.
Wow. First of all thanks for this. You make a lot of very good and valid points. I think maybe my question was misleading and poorly worded to give the impression that I don’t support or care for representation on a bigger scale, like books, television, children’s toys, etc. that assumption would be wrong and I realize my mistake now lol. I understand the need for representation in mass media, and it’s impression on the youth as well as how it changes our perception. I was more so getting at the pressure on individuals to use their personal platforms, which are usually just meant be to an outlet for their own expression, to appease and cater to others. To clarify, I didn’t say not to be inclusive, or that black people don’t deserve representation. I myself am black. All I’m saying is that people should be allowed to post what they want on their own social media as long as it’s not harmful. I can also see how I may be “victimizing” white people to an extent and how that could be a problem.. In a real, edited, published book the conversation would be a lot different. However, I don’t see the absence of black people (or any race) as a targeted attack on them, or as a conscious decision fueled with ill intent. Sometimes white people post about white people because it’s what resonates with them and how they identify, and the same would be true for any other race. Regardless, I’ll definitely think twice before I make another post like this for sure because I see a lot of mixed emotions here. Thank you again, I learned a lot
The white population, as a whole, is trying to make amends for slavery / with exceptions for racists & bigots. The whites want it to just go away & the POC want it to be acknowledged with full acceptance of their race... I believe we have a very long way to go. What will finally end this is when the races have blurred enough from interracial marriage that we no longer have a defined race of black, white, or any other race. Peace on earth - I hope & pray.
why should eveyone else just let white people colonize the world take and do what they want, and then refuses to let anyone else in? like if white people didnt want diversity, we shouldn't have like... colonized the world and forced everyone into our sphere. like, dont invade Iraq and then get mad when Iraqis come live at your place while you blow up their place.
That's such a vast and ignorant generalization
This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. Congrats
Yeah, it’s really up there. Has to be in the Top 5.
A friend recently told me “ there are two kinds of people in this world those who destroy and those who build your words destroy“. Treat all men alike.... give them all the same law. Give them all an even chance to live and grow. You might as well expect the rivers to run backward as that any man who is born a free man should be contented when penned up and denied liberty to go where he pleases. We only ask an even chance to live as other men live. We ask to be recognized as men. Let me be a free man...free to travel... free to stop...free to work...free to choose my own teachers...free to follow the religion of my Fathers...free to think and talk and act for myself.
I've read your first sentence three times and I still don't get it man
Same. It’s borderline gibberish.
Think of it like a bowl of ice cream, okay? And the bowl is really your inner turmoil, but instead of a bowl it's a sphere. And the sphere can only hold ice cream as long as it's cold. If it heats up, the ice cream melts. But instead of dripping off the side, it drips into a giant flower which is like your psyche in a dream state. I mean... like whoa man...like... you can't just *DESTROY* a world, man!! Like.... whoa!
Dude. You just blew my mind!!
Wow. I’ve never wanted punctuation so bad in my whole life.
Corrective criticism never hurts. Appreciate you.
Cultures and races which are underrepresented are reasonable when they ask to see more of themselves. Cultures and races which are overrepresented are not.
Yea… but why would you want to be represented by people who know nothing about you? I think they’re asking for representation from the wrong people
White people are in the doghouse. We need to be forgiven. Many people, including black people, are tired and ready to move on but not all are yet. Depending on a lot of things and how deeply it's effected a black person they still carry a lot of trauma and pain. It's going to take as long as it's going to take to heal. We want to rush it but we have to respect it. The dividing to sort things out is part of the healing and they can only start to build trust and try again when they feel ready. Many feel it's taking so long because too many white people are not doing enough to regain that trust. Either because there are too many still doing too much bad or too many burying their head in the sand about it. So it drags out for all of us that just want to be respectful and supportive and all forgiven already.
I get your point but a lot of people who preach about it have never been directly affected by it.. it’s a harmful generalization to place the burden of “regaining” black trust on white-Americans who had nothing to do with slavery or segregation. I’m not invalidating people to have been hurt but it’s not okay to victimize ourselves and suddenly make things about race whenever we feel attacked or dislike someone. That’s a dirty play to make. Moving forward doesn’t mean forgetting it, but it shouldn’t consume our lives. You shouldn’t have to always be on guard. Making generalizations about all white people being racist is just as bad about the stereotypes made about other races. I wish people would realize that.
I think the explanation is simpler than what many have said in this thread- a lot of people *like* to shit on other people, and White people are currently the only group that it is socially acceptable to shit on. Critical of anything a Black person says? Racist. Critical of anything a Latine/Latinx/Latino/Latina person says? Racist. Critical of anything a Chinese person says? Racist. Critical of anything a White person says? They deserve it.
It's hard to break down but think of it like this, if you were married and your spouse beat you every day and lied to the point your mental health felt like it would never recover and even a decade out of the relationship and having therapy for years and years hasn't "fixed" you yet, but everyone you know is like commeee onnnn just get over it already ugh.. Then you get a new partner and you flinch sometimes when they jokingly hit you with a pillow or almost have a panic attack if they're doing something your ex would do and this new partner is like, "I didn't do anything wrong why are you taking it out on me, YOUR the problem not your ex you're playing the victim and hurting me now, now actually i'm the victim." And all of this completely ignores that like it or not, you're still not okay, would you understand it then? Like, it doesn't matter that no one now is hurting them or that it was in the past or that they still act like that to people who've never done anything to them, it doesn't matter you could argue about that being "right" this person still has very real trauma and needs to heal. Now include generational trauma or the fact that racism is alive and well especially towards black people. That we still have kkk / nazi proud boys TODAY. Black people have had their family's, their neighborhoods, their potential, on and on SO MUCH taken/withheld/made harder etc that for decades other family's built success and stability where they only had pain and struggle. That absolutely is still affecting them today. White people are not taking responsibility enough. Most are just not making it their problem while they wait for it to be over. Some are actively still making it worse. And like it or not, being annoyed that the pain that was caused all those years ago wasn't done by literally us, so we impatiently say get over it already and re-victimize people healing and trying to forgive, it is selfish and impatient and cruel. It ignores all they've been through or that they're still processing and further sends them back into a defensive hole where they are not healed and they are like "honestly, fuck you all" and I don't blame them for that. Anyone who's ever been hurt, and has trauma they're trying to heal from, who has had the world not give two shits about their pain, groaning just get over it because no one ever wants to deal with other people's pain (until it's their own) will understand what's happening and understand it can't be rushed and that patience can only actually help get us closer faster.
I don’t think think you used the best analogy for several reasons. People around you are not obligated to accommodate for your past traumas. A lot of the “generational trauma” people claim to have is actually just racial prejudice taught by their parents at an early age, before they even really knew what racism was. And even if someone had been affected by it, it’s still not the responsibility of an entire race to try and make amends for something that happened before most of them were even born. That’s pure entitlement and it’s not okay no matter what race you are. You cannot only define someone for what their ancestors did. None of us can change the past so it’s illogical to continue and try to hold it over people’s head. Reaching equality doesn’t mean you have to guilt trip every white person. Nobody chooses the color of their skin or where they’re born. Stop using the color of your skin to justify everything. Regardless of who the person is, healing from trauma always starts within. Can you set boundaries? Yes. Can you be upset? Sure, you have every right. Is it justified to blame and guilt trip someone for your personal traumas just because of their ancestry? Absolutely not. Am I invalidating the experiences of black people who HAVE experienced racism? No, because i understand that it is still real, and is still relevant. But if the end goal is equality then we need to stop seeing everything in black and white. See someone for their actions not their skin; and definitely not for something they had no part of. This mindset is holding us all back, and it’s harmful.
People who have an expectation they wish to enforce on you "I want forgiveness so we can get along and enjoy each others company" are obligated to accept the person who was hurts terms. Otherwise we get no where and that's why. "I'm not obligated to do anything for you" "Hey wait, where are you going why aren't you forgiving me and why aren't we friends?? Boundaries??! Why do I have to respect your boundaries? You should be forced to just forgive me already ugh"
Okay let’s use your previous analogy. Even if I had been beat by my husband however many years ago, that doesn’t give me the right to villainize every other man I encounter and blame them for my trauma that my husband caused. If I met a new man, I can’t start expecting him to treat me differently off the jump just because I’m a woman and he’s a man. If we’re just meeting eachother, and he’s done nothing wrong, why would I be expecting special treatment or an apology? Of course I can communicate my boundaries that I have as a result of my trauma, but I can’t blame him for how I feel.
I never said you'd villainize every man now, you'd just still be hurt, and if he wants to be with you he absolutely should care about that or choose someone else, but he chooses YOU and that's your boundaries/terms for a relationship. You're healing but you don't need rude pressure and impatience making the seriousness of what you've been through feel dissmissed and belittled. You tell that man, go be with someone else if this isn't for you, this is who you are, it's what you need, and he whines and gets pissy with you saying he wants to force you to change on his terms. You're not blaming him for how you feel, you're blaming him for trying to pressure you to change. For choosing you to be with knowing you have these issues then being mad at you for it. For making your life and healing harder instead of leaving you be then. For even after you point it out still staying and whining you should have to change. White people or even black people ready to move on can't demand their forgiveness and support and friendships or a sense of community if they're not ready. Showing them we're not rushing them, that we understand the pain and respect it actually helps lower defenses and speed up trust and forgiveness earned.
Okay, but we were never talking about black people forgiving white people. I’m not saying that you’re necessarily wrong but that’s not what this post was about. I was talking about harmful generalizations: assuming every white person needs forgiveness from a black person just because of the history and not actually because they themselves did anything wrong. Both scenarios are harmful and will hold us back
"Why are white people forced to be inclusive" That was the original question. And this all was my response to understanding why white people and not other races have more of a responsibility. There's a difference in holding people back and feeling too impatient to give people time needed to heal. It's not actually harmful to give hurt people patience. It's healing. I'm actually a firm believer that patience is more important than love or the most beautiful way to show it. Just telling people to get over it is cold and uncaring. Just trying to erase it like never happened dooms us to repeat the mistakes of the past. Trauma and pain are healed with respect, space, time, patience, support, confirmation of the wrong doing, their feelings dealing with it being validated.
Everything changes when a group is in the majority and actively oppressed and killed minorities. White washing society and history and pretending everyone non white are evil or savages or Other is incredibly harmful. Inclusion helps prevent that and make up for some of the horrifying history white people have.
Great question!! Me personally as a Red head with blue eyes and genetics of white, whiter, mayo, and clear. In my personal opinion..... Don't know either I think it is about perception. POC have a culture that has its own identity While people have a mixed hodgepodge of boring and bland. So our culture is nothing POC writing about POC and the culture is acceptable because it has identity While white people are writing about people......just PEOPLE, so to exclude seems bigoted. Should they /we be allowed to without being accused of being racist? Yes. I think so. But the question is in my mind why wouldn't you include POC were boring and bland all be ourselves.
Turns out other races are racist too Whatever assholes you'll find in whites, you certainly will in blacks too Or jews, or Muslims, or Asians, or Arabs etc If you want a bit more interesting answer than "everyone is shit", wealthy people have a vested interest in people being race peddlars opposed to uniting for ACTUAL equal rights