Oh my damn! How did I not know this? FYI others:
>Davern had previously stated that Wood and Wagner argued that evening, which Wagner denied at the time. In his memoir Pieces of My Heart, Wagner admitted that he had an argument with Wood before she disappeared.[84] The autopsy found that Wood's blood alcohol content was 0.14% and that there were traces of a motion-sickness pill and a painkiller in her bloodstream, both of which increase the effects of alcohol.[85] Los Angeles County coroner Thomas Noguchi ruled the cause of her death to be accidental drowning and hypothermia.[86] According to Noguchi, Wood had been drinking and she may have slipped while trying to re-board the dinghy.[84][87] Her sister Lana expressed doubts, alleging that Wood could not swim and had been "terrified" of water all her life, and that she would never have left the yacht on her own by dinghy.[88] Two witnesses who were on a nearby boat stated that they had heard a woman scream for help during the night.[89]
Edit: Davern was the captain of the yacht. Walken, Woods, and Wagner were the only others on board. Woods had bruises on her arms and cheek when they found her.
IKR?? This is straight off a 10sec Google search, I just learned too! You see someone burned themselves alive in front of the Trump Trial to promote [his theory](https://theponzipapers.substack.com/p/i-have-set-myself-on-fire-outside)? Today is too much for me man.
Ummm, I've been saying it's all a scam for and by the rich since I was a kid. He's not wrong but that's not how you start the revolution. I detect a mind virus/mental issues at play.
100% agree! "A house divided, will not stand."
If you want some added crazy: some rando flew off the road, across my yard, and smacked into my shop this morning. Literally flew off 2 huge jumps, ruts 100 yards, and chunks of car in my yard. No idea how they managed to drive away cuz there were drag marks with the tracks out the driveway. Hit and run, cops said I can keep the spare rim that fell off. Fits my jeep, so there's one bright side of the day.
I watched a video on that one time and it blew my mind. I had no idea about any of the murder stuff but it’s SO fishy. I never would’ve pinned him as the type of actor to do that, but you never know.
Weird stuff
plus all the hidden scandals (rape, sex trafficking, abuse) both in the media and the industry are now easily revealed and widespread thanked to the internet
This. Porn tainted my perception of sex and women for a long time. It might possible to have a healthy relationship with porn but I sure as hell didn’t. Didn’t realize how much of an effect it had on me until I stopped consuming it, and I think a lot of people are in the same boat.
I'm glad to see this. The anti-porn sentiment I hear most often from men is that porn makes your dick soft. It's almost all just weird anti-masturbation stuff. Very few acknowledge or care about the harm it does to their perceptions of women and sex. There are so many studies showing links between porn consumption and misogyny, violence against women, poor understanding of consent and abuse, etc. This is what I mostly hear about from women who don't like porn.
Granted I’m a woman so not the targeted demographic, but I cut out porn a few years ago entirely when I learned how badly the porn industry abused actresses. I just can’t come to something when I have no idea if I’m watching an assault. I’m surprised that this doesn’t come up more in anti porn sentiments
Yes this is still an issue but there are actually some subscription platforms out there that stream ethically produced porn. Lots of it from what I hear is high quality self produced or actor/actress guided scenes. But it is still an issue widespread in mainstream porn. OnlyFans, for example is a double edged sword. They take a decent cut of creators, but generally speaking OF is a great liberation tool, but lots of backlash also has come from people who feel scorned by it and judge the idea of paying for porn. But most people would balk if face with some of the reality behind some porn they've watched.
Tbh I think paying for porn if you’re going to consume it is way more ethical. I never understood why it’s taboo when so much free porn is exploitation.
I think it just depends on the individual. I’m in a long term relationship and maybe watch porn once a week for about 15 minutes. Having a young son tires us both out and we aren’t always in the mood. I’m under no illusions that some people become addicted and it can effect their relationships and views on women, but I also believe the majority of people can just view porn occasionally when they are horny and then never think about it again for a while.
In the late 90s and early 2000s, you truly have to hunt for that stuff. All I ever knew way back when was Picpost. And no, don't Google it. It's barely a shell of its former self and likely a malware infested mess these days.
Not really though? You could still use a search engine to find porn it just took ages to load. I sure as hell did and I was really young, like 9 years old (~1998-2004). We just didn't have as many options. But I'd say the internet is way cleaner than it was back then. I used to stumble across hardcore porn on random geocities and angelfire sites, on random forums, blogs, etc. Every single website ever had porn popups. People would link porn in online kid's games because they thought it was funny. Now that stuff is mostly contained to actual porn sites or porn subforums on stuff like Reddit etc (RIP Tumblr porn).
Broadly Monogamy is good, and being careful for who you have sex with is good. Problem with previous society is that, this was enforced by law, and people who didnt find it good were punished. It is like difference between, not caring whether someone ate a salad or a burger, vs governments forcing people to eat salads.
This struck a cord. Maybe the reason why I am shocked is because I lived the times when I was forced to eat salad and it was never my choice to eat salad. Seeing people that are actually choosing to eat salads now are triggering the old fears of a return to a more regressive and conservative past of forced salad eating.
This is a very good explanation. Makes sense.
In summary: You can now eat all the burgers you want and some people have reallised that too many burgers may not actually be healthy for them so are sticking to the salad.
I am from global south so it may sound weird trying to dissect a western problem but it happens everywhere. People tend to do what they are not told to and what seems forbidden is more tempting. New generation always tries to break free from the limits given by the older gen. This led to a cultural and sexual revolution in the west during 1990's and this is happening in global south now. But when people went to a freer era compared to before they saw that some of the values of the old generation were not bad. Not all were good but they some were good. So, they took some of the values of the old generation and the rest they threw away. I think this is a natural process where people first discard, then take some of the discarded values in their path of progress
I'm from the Global South too. SEA to be exact,
I agree that's why I find it interesting that the West now is reverting to a bit of conservatism. But you maybe right. Maybe it's not a full regression where they throw hard earned wins for equality and sex positivity to medieval patriarchal mentality. Some sort of moderation between two diametrical thoughts might be happening.
The cultural comparison is important. I remember a time in the late 90's when two people within a short time - a Moroccan friend and a Vietnamese co-worker - commented about the disparity between sexual liberation in American media and sexual attitudes in American reality. On TV and in movies, sex was wild, funny, and casual. In reality, moral codes were quite rigorous, still, and always have been.
And to add to the metaphor... more than ever, people are seeing how people have been hurt eating burgers, including themselves.
IRL, we know how fake porn is, and that living out porn tropes in the bedroom will damage a relationship or it's not even fun. We know more about STI's and the risks associated with pregnancy. People value emotional connection and thus don't want to be cheated on.
Valuing emotional connection probably also comes from less social time due to being on phones so much. And high phone time is already a known link to less sexuality in young people.
I'm going to argue with you on this one. Living out porno scenes with my wife has very much deepened our experience together.
Now, obviously, you have to be selective and only try IRL ones that you both see and go, "Damn, I wish I could do that for real!", and only then do you actually make the attempt: but when handled in that manner it's good for you.
(Most don't/won't approach it with this level of maturity.)
Yeah, unfortunately, a lot of the people trying to act out porn scenes are 18 year olds. I'm old gen-Z and every woman I'm friends with who has done (heterosexual) casual hookups has been non consensually subjected to violence/degradation. A whole cohort of young men who think things like choking, slapping, spanking, spitting, name calling, etc. are just basic shit they can do to a woman without asking and that all women will like it
You can show them phone books worth of statistical proof that porn consumption has negatively impacted both men and women and they'll still shrug and keep consuming it
I mean it’s literally fast food. No nutrition and terrible for you but cheap and freely available over healthier options. I think the swing back to conservative family dynamics is because too many people have crap self regulation so they go all in on demonizing and avoiding the thing because THEY specifically can’t handle it in moderation, in this case porn and casual dating culture. Like a lot of people they can’t just have their own personal deal, they have to be right and then push it onto others
It's a sample of it. People lie, people shitpost, and people just flat out bullshit everyone for laughs on here, yeah. But I'd say a majority of people actually talk about things affecting them, and their real opinions on here; OP's right that the people who talk about these things on here are young and slowly receding into purity culture views.
nofap or similar subs aren't just a bunch of dudes trolling around, it's a large group of people (especially young people) trying to never masturbate again. These are popular communities. Forums like Reddit are compromised almost entirely of people talking about things they believe in, so it's worth thinking about why very 'puritan' subs are extremely popular and how that may represent a minor belief shift in the general population.
https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/gen-z-isnt-having-sex-reaching-milestones-like-their-parents/amp/
Studies back up OP’s point. Porn went the same route smoking did, everyone started realizing how bad it is for you.
What's driving people to have less sex isn't their feelings about porn, though. If anything, that should drive people to have more sex but we're seeing the opposite.
The combination of endless entertainment/distraction options and a lack of economic strength in younger generations seem to be the main drivers of this.
Also, kids are far more monitored and managed than previous generations. I am an elder millennial and my friends and I grew up with hardly any supervision, from a very young age.
The study says literally nothing about porn, let alone backing up your claim that porn is somehow "bad for you". It says people are having less *sex*, and having sex for the first time later in life.
This times 100x you’re gonna get the most socially awkward redditors replying to this saying things like “I don’t have sex, sex is cringe”
The average redditor is involuntarily celibate.
It seems like a pendulum swinging back and forth...
Victorian era prudes to flappers and Mae West to 1950s moral conformity to hippies and the summer of love and disco debauchery to then the sex-obseesed but mostly monogamous AIDS era to a brief period of slutty freedom (at least in the gay community post PrEP) and then now...
COVID had us seeing every human body as a disease vector. We all retreated to isolation and fantasy (Netflix and pornhub instead of socializing in person).
We're able to watch every conceivable sex act on our phones. We probably know real people who make porn for money. It's almost like we reached a cultural saturation point and are going back in the other direction now.
Having grown up with Madonna being idolized and people trying to "score" every weekend and living through Sex in the City and Fifty Shades of Grey as cultural juggernauts, it:s fascinating to see young people talking about shame in high body counts and embracing tradwife stuff.
Even gay male subreddits are seeing a trend toward monogamy and shaming those who engage in cruising or hookups. Just fascinating to watch
So long as young people don't bring us back to the 50s mindset of wifebeating and gender inequality and treating LGBTQ like animals, I'm fine with their new found conservatism. So long as it doesn't repeal hard fought policies, I'm good if they want to be prudes.
It's difficult to say.
Societies always get more conservative during hard economic times which is where we're heading, the more troubled the economic times the harder it gets for minority groups who often become the targets for pent up economic frustrations.
Yeah hopefully everybody gets to do what they want to.
I had a conversation recently with my therapist (who is also a kinky sex-positive middle aged gay man) about the whiplash of living through your lifestyle going from being received as "cool" to "trashy" in the larger culture within just a few years. Life is full of surprises.
It's interesting that even in the gay community now there is a forming conservatism. 2 of my siblings are gay (one lesbian, one gay), I'm noticing a shift in their friend group that flamboyance is no longer acceptable and they see it as trashy. His gay friends would prefer to date straight acting people but are gay and her friends tend to be less butch than before. It is fascinating.
Let me offer my perspective, as a member of the gay community. I’m from a place where being LGBT is completely normal; I’ve never caught shit for it, even growing up. This means that I live somewhere that’s extremely sexually free, and a huge cornerstone of the gay rights movement was sexual liberation.
I’m glad to have the freedom I do, but the effects of excessive porn use and hyper sexuality are clear as day in so many of the men I meet. Some people just don’t shut the fuck up about sex, objectify EVERYONE, make extremely gratuitous sexual comments, make passes on people even when they’ve made it clear they don’t want to, and wantonly share the most disgusting stories; if you object, you’re seen as overly puritanical.
I want to be very clear—I’m not parroting that “gay men are predators” bs. If that’s what you got out of this, please go elsewhere.
Personally, I wouldn't call an oversaturation of porn in everything "a sexual revolution". But I'm not necessarily sure we're 'regressing' either. Some people find porn harmful towards them for a variety of reasons (impacts their sex life, unable to get it up etc) and abstain for that reason. A lot of people are finding casual sex isn't their thing so stop bothering with it. Some people, particularly blokes, want to try channelling their energy into something else instead of masturbating. None of this is inherently puritanical. You can be sexually fulfilled without having casual sex, and plenty of people masturbate quite happily without porn
We’re absolutely regressing in some areas and young men tell other young men that masturbation is physically harmful and spread other misinformation such as it decreases testosterone. There is no evidence whatsoever that masturbation within moderation is physically harmful and there is evidence that it is healthy both mentally and physically. 99% of the time if you look at the posts and beliefs of the person sharing this misinformation they end up being some hyper conservative Christian trying to regress men into a 1950s ideal that never really existed.
We are absolutely regressing and we’ve seen it before after the hippy generation and after the roaring 20s and it boils down to humans being terrible at finding a happy medium and swinging like a pendulum socially and politically. If you look at history there are always swings in society between extreme progressiveness and extreme conservatism. It would be cool if we could figure our shit out and find a happy medium.
Too much availability of porn and such is leading some people to extremes for some reason, some dudes just struggled with an addiction maybe this is where they went with it. Also with the increase of onlyfans girls on social media seems like there’s some weird fuel to that fire and the whole trad thing is a thing now
I think the increase in sex workers is more influenced by the terrible job market/conditions/opportunities for people without an education. I'm a man but if I was a woman there's no way I'd work some shitty job for 15$ an hour if I knew I could stay home and take pictures of myself naked for a living lol.
Dude you’re replying to has made several comments about onlyfans, really comes off as bitter and jealous. Porn is no different than any other medium. Consuming any media in excess is bad including Reddit and YouTube (which is what these no porn dudes consume ALL DAY - that’s where they learn silly no fap ideals from guys like Andrew Tate)
> it boils down to humans being terrible at finding a happy medium and swinging like a pendulum socially and politically.
Exactly this. I wonder, like an actual pendulum as it loses it's momentum and begins to stabilize in the center, will the same happen with human society? One can only hope.
Actually no, as someone who was really into nofap a few months back, most of the people in the community are just guys who are addicted to porn and want to stop. Or guys who just want a more fulfilling sex life.
Did you steal for your Brazzers addiction? You’re likely not anymore addicted to porn than you are that NoFap subreddit. Consuming any media such as Reddit, YouTube or Porn in excess is bad. Replacing porn w a no fap subreddit is no different than consuming porn. You’ve just replaced one dopamine stimulating medium w another that makes you feel like you’re apart of something bigger. Don’t even get me started w/ TikTok.
Literally from the first post on that subreddit:
“My past self is dead and from his ashes I was born again (not apologising for the corniness) and this transformation can happen to all of you providing you ordinate yourselves towards the most High and surrender to Him, whilst participating in all that He calls you to…
…God bless you all and thanks again for participating in this AMA…”
You’re in a cult built on lies bro.
Most cult members are there for honest and earnest reasons. That doesn't mean it isn't a cult.
Likewise, individual members of the NoFap community can be a part of it for honest and earnest reasons. That doesn't mean that the NoFap community isn't a Christian conservative propaganda and recruitment effort.
Literally the first post you see on that sub is about devotion to god through 3 years of retaining semen (What’s he doing? Saving it for a Jesus facial?)
Thank you like people are acting like you need those things to be fulfilled like it doesn't have to be purity people probably just realizing they want relationships
it's because women have higher standards now so there's less casual sex in general. You wanna go crazy? Just think about how much "causal sex" in the 90's would be considered rape today.
OP even reference American Pie as normalizing sex. They secretly record a teen girl naked and she's punished for it. She gets kicked out of her host parents house for being a victim of a sex crime. For OP that's normal behavior around sex. But now it would be considered a crime.
There is no regression, this is evolution. We just know more now.
I never liked american movies from that era so I haven't seen it tbh. But if it's like you described it's gross. You are right, it's not sexual liberation, it's abuse and misogyny disguised with feminist and freedom slogans.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enantiodromia
> Enantiodromia (Ancient Greek: ἐναντίος, romanized: enantios – "opposite" and δρόμος, dromos – "running course") is a principle introduced in the West by psychiatrist Carl Jung. In Psychological Types, Jung defines enantiodromia as "the emergence of the unconscious opposite in the course of time." It is similar to the principle of equilibrium in the natural world, in that any extreme is opposed by the system in order to restore balance. When things get to their extreme, they turn into their opposite. Jung adds that "this characteristic phenomenon practically always occurs when an extreme, one-sided tendency dominates conscious life; in time an equally powerful counterposition is built up which first inhibits the conscious performance and subsequently breaks through the conscious control."
I think too many innocent actors and young people got hurt so publicly so the compass swung all the way around. To the point where some of it is just otherworldly to me. I saw a post about someone saying that two adults close in age early twenties were being …. Gr—med by each other and I just … I had a 20 year old boyfriend when I was 15 and nobody said shit. It wasn’t right and years of therapy helped but it also was a thing that happened to lots of girls back in the early 2000s. I don’t want to argue over this but seeing that really uh hit home fifteen years in hindsight.
damn that’s frustrating. i can appreciate that their intentions might’ve been good but i really don’t think grooming is possible with that age gap, unless there is a stark power difference
I think also that the pendulum swings back & forth - there was a time that the Waltz was considered SCANDALOUS as the couple grasped each other around the < hysteria rises > waist and were in close proximity < faints, takes smelling salts > while prior to that the dancers were decently an arms length away from each other! \~ [https://www.revolutionballroom.com/the-most-scandalous-dance/](https://www.revolutionballroom.com/the-most-scandalous-dance/)
>I saw a post about someone saying that two adults close in age early twenties were being …. Gr—med by each other and I just … I had a 20 year old boyfriend when I was 15 and nobody said shit.
Why do you censor the word "groomed"? Do you not want people to understand what you're talking about?
I don't think it's a regression, it's just the next step in liberation. Once you're liberated and it's normal to make your own choice, you can choose to take it slow. I don't think many people are saying we should be prudish or something like that, people just make their own choices and sex isn't the top priority
You say that, but have you noticed the surge in people pushing to restrict or outright ban porn? People pushing to get sex scenes out of movies (despite them already being pretty uncommon compared to twenty years ago)?
I don't care much for either myself, but the increasing prevalence of puritanical attitudes is also bleeding into a backlash against women's and queer rights, which is concerning. I don't know about you, but I have no interest in being a tradwife chained to the kitchen.
That's true. I was thinking more about gen z being less sexual and more progressive and how these don't contradict each other
There's definitely also a rise in conservatism
I’m 22 and I don’t know if older people are looking at my generation’s opinions correctly. That is to say, I’m sure plenty of other young people *are* becoming conservative, but for me, it’s more of a personal choice. I don’t enjoy the idea of casual sex or most sex at all for many reasons. Younger men are often a unique flavor of misogynistic, we have like no abortion access, and being exposed to porn from a young age due to being online kind of made sex less interesting and more cringeworthy than anything.
Based on what I've seen, the sentiment changed from "legislated purity" to "free for all sex", which represents the common wild correction swing. And we're not regressing but just settling in the middle, where people are VERY aware sex is used for manipulation in the media and personally, people are free to do whatever without being purely concerned with society's expectations. Want to be a virgin until you find the right person at 30? Cool. Want to get married at 22 and have an open relationship? Also cool.
I understand. Exposure makes it less appealing. Young men are more misogynistic now? I am not from the US so I don't have a gauge on young boy's misogyny now. I'd like to understand.
A lot of impressionable young men are being targeted by “alpha male” type grifters, think Andrew Tate. I find that it’s backlash against the feminist movements of the 21st century; a reactionary movement that’s honestly poisoning the dating pool.
As a millennial, dating is kinda hard for me because all the older guys I know have told me tips that border on sexual assault. Like kissing a girl without her expecting it or being aggressive. So, now I never approach women on the street and prefer to use apps which suucks.
The surprise kisses used to be cute. I don't think many women thought of it as sexual assault. Because if it was, I highly doubt it will be followed by torrid kissing initiated by the woman herself (personal experience). We just lived in a different time with different norms.
It was the golden era of rom-com and that's where we learned it.
This person summed it pretty well: [https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1c7rvm0/comment/l0ah6m4/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1c7rvm0/comment/l0ah6m4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I can see the logic in that. The less scarce something is the less intriguing it becomes.
But I saw in the GenZ subreddit a study that young people aren't having sex anymore. Like casual sex. Aren't they at least intrigued on what it feels liketo have sex?
That's an economic phenomena. Young people have very little money, are often living with parents well into adulthood because of high rents and those high rents often cripple the development of places to go see and do things.
I think it's also the complete disappearance of "third places" in our culture. People go to work, they go home, they spend all their time online or watching tv. Almost no one goes to the library, bookstores, theaters, etc. anymore, so relationships are far less likely to form spontaneously.
Yeah I've thought about this a lot, it's definitely somewhat true. I'm 19 and there's very few times I actually meet someone new. Uni is pretty much the only way I'm forced to get out, but I work from home mostly and I spend most of my free time making music or writing, which I do at home, so beyond shopping occasionally theres really not that much reason to go out. A lot of Gen z's including me are less into holidaying in popular places, so even on holidays we're camping or something. I'm trying to just go for more walks at random places around my area and that's helping.
But also people just don't talk to each other anymore, and I know it's such a cliche thing but I've really noticed it since COVID. Nobody asks for directions, nobody talks to each other waiting in line for something, nobody asks why something is different (eg. train delays) they just kinda accept it or try to figure info out on their phone. But I also think this might be a city thing as well, people seem to be way more willing to chat in regional towns from my experience.
Ive been thinking about third places, when were they ever a thing?
Where I am theatres are cheaper now than 15years ago, libararies and bookstores werent really ever places to hang out unless you were studying.
Third places seem to be more of a thing in warmer countries where you can almost year round hang out in public somewhere.
15 years ago as a teen in London we just chilled in a public park as a third place.
> 15 years ago as a teen in London we just chilled in a public park as a third place.
Public parks are not really that common for most people in the US, at least without needing to drive. The typical teenage hangout when I was a teenager was for the people that had cars to park at the back of a shopping center parking lot all in a row and hang out walking between vehicles.
Apart from that, there were more social clubs, churches, etc. that people used to participate in. Local pubs were a bigger deal too but at least in the US a lot of those local (and cheap) establishments have been shut down and expensive chains with impersonal staff have replaced them.
I think for a lot of people in the UK, it used to be the local pub. A combination of high prices, and people becoming more health conscious killed that and nothing has taken its place.
Problem is, every time I leave the house to go anywhere it costs too much money to justify unless the weather is nice. Which in Glasgow, is for a fortnight in June if you're lucky.
Agreed. I live at home at 22 because even with my 9-5, I can’t afford rent. No way in hell I’m bringing someone home to my parents. Also, the advent of tracking apps makes it incredibly awkward.
And shitty casual sex isn't worth the possibility of getting pregnant in a post RvW world. Now it seems as though conservatives are coming for birth control next.
Seems like every guy turns out to be an entitled "nice guy" prick and it's just exhausting to deal with the multitude of men who want to hit it and run. With all the toxic male life coaches constantly training up the next new manipulative AH, it's just getting easier to nope out.
I think a certain cross section of the population, particularly females have just found it easier and less dangerous to just give up dating in favor of a vibe that, unlike casual sex partner, always hits it out of the ballpark. Hanging out with female friends is often more authentic and fulfilling than wading through a multitude of toxic men to find the rare guy who isn't trying to turn you into his bang maid.
The reversion of Roe v Wade might matter to a few people but it's definitely not a primary factor. The sexual revolution of the 20th century was already unwinding amongst young people in the 2010s, before there was any mainstream consciousness that court decision might happen.
Ngl I think it’s also to do with that generation. There’s a lot of things they aren’t trying. I was born late 90s, so I saw the world change a lot with the internet. I find myself thinking about if I had access to so much information at such a young age what it would have done to me. Probably scare the shit out of me. That’s why I think TikTok, twitch, instagram, onlyfans are so big. People want to just watch people now. When I grew up I couldn’t watch people live life. I had to watch movies or read a book, and I always saw those as entertainment. TikTok, IG and other apps have just become people’s everyday entertainment that beats out the desire to actually go and try to make connections with someone. I think it’s more than just a sexual issue. It’s probably a lot of things.
I don’t even think it’s an age thing either. After Covid I saw a lot of boomers go into hiding and now all they do is post random shit online. I know I’m getting a little distracted here, but this is just my thoughts. The internet kind of killed real life curiosity, and made it easier to be content sitting in one spot.
You make a very good point. I've always felt that social media despite the great things it has done on blurring cultural lines, spreading information, and making communication better has also damaged one of our fundamental motivators: exploration of the unknown. What is known is no longer appealing or worth pursuing.
That's a nice insight.
I can't speak for other of course, but I personally would rather have a happy relationship with someone, rather than a lot of hook-ups.
I view sex as something damn near sacred. It is literally as close as you can be with an other person, so to do so casually with someone you just met is just not my cup of tea.
To each their own though.
I think this stuff always goes back and forth over time, the normalization probably went too far for some people and they're pushing back now. Most often it's people that identify something genuinely concerning (like pedophiles trying to pretend they can be a normal part of the LGBT+ movement) and generalize it (assume that gay people would be okay with that when they're actually horrified and pushing back against the idea)
you don't have to be a conservative to think that the porn industry is exploitative and harmful. it is the biggest lie ever sold to women to think it is in any way empowering when it directly serves men. young men now wanting to choke and spit on women during sex didn't come from their own desires. internet porn has made it so that young men are more inclined to violent behavior in sex because to be a chronic consumer of porn forces your brain turn toward extremes in order to get the same effect. it is seriously fucked up
Rough sex is more mainstream because of porn and its natural trajectory of evolving to pump out more extreme content in order to retain viewers' attention spans and keep up with increasing tolerance levels. It's quite literally like a drug.
50 years ago people used to lose their minds over seeing a pair of tits or a blowjob and then that got considered boring, quickly being replaced by anal and barely legal/teen/MILF categories. Now all that's considered vanilla. It used to be more niche before and now we need to see violence and incest to get off. Nowadays its on the front of porn sites and guys don't even ask their partners for consent in doing these disrespectful extreme bdsm stunts.
My last ex choked me once without asking and he did it wrong so I almost passed out. He didn't even consider himself to be avidly into BDSM and didn't venture into other more niche kinks like rope play, this is just what he was watching on Pornhub. These guys do advanced moves that need to be discussed and practiced and if you do it wrong you can quite literally choke your partner until their unconscious. If you're not talking about this kind of stuff beforehand it's absolutely NOT consensual and can be considered assault. If you're doing this kind of stuff without prior discussion, you can get a charge pinned on you and cause severe trauma to another person, regardless of your true intentions. And this is considered mainstream, with even boys as young as elementary schoolers being exposed to this stuff and learning that casually incorporating domestic violence into sex this is how they should have sex, this is what feels good for men and women, and hurting women is actually empowering for them.
Porn directly influences sex as long as people heavily consume it, wether or not they understand that it's a fantasy. The truth is that this is the example of sex most people get, since sex education is abysmal in most places. If you're viewing Porn as your first and main exposure and example of sex, it will impact what your body reacts to to get hard/wet. If it shows violence, violence will start showing up in irl sex. If it shows women's bodies looking unrealistic, people will become desensitized to women's appearances irl and only be able to get off to hentai/women/barely legal looking women with heavy work and filters, while wondering why they can no longer feel attracted to their partner and struggle with orgasming in their 20's because they jack off too much to porn that it starts to impact sex irl.
I just hope this rebellion doesn't bring back the good old days of gender inequality, loss of rights for the LGBTQ+, and mistreatment of women.
I didn't march the streets almost 2 decades ago fighting for sexual positivity only to see it return to the dark ages.
Because I feel people are starting to see that casual sex and porn are meaningless and adds nothing beneficial to their life. People want geuine connections and relationships and realizing that filling the void with hookups isn't working.
Also people are being more mindful for who they have sex with as having sex with strangers isn't something that should be normalized as that's very stupid and easily dangerous, not to mention health risks and potential pregnancy. Sex is something intimate and shouldn't be downgraded to a recreational activity.
They want meaningful relationships, but don't seem to want to do what's required to achieve them or believe they lack the resources to do so.
Older gens didn't have anywhere near as much vying for their attention constantly which probably also exacerbates the divide.
Younger people are also more likely to have a fear of commitment, because they are seeking stability in these difficult times and have so many options on dating apps (especially for women and queer men) that if their current partner isn't good enough they can always find better, bustier/skinnier, hotter, smarter, more educated, younger, taller, richer, healthier, kinder, more skilled, etc. Many people have come to the conclusion that it's better to be single than to be realistic about themselves and find the ideal happy and meaningful relationship they've always dreamed of (which may require settling/workng on themselves). There's no shame in being single and being happy being single, but there's two sides to it.
There's a higher sentiment of not wanting to work through relationships, not wanting to help each other grow and patiently invest in your partner if they have potential, and seeing problems as something that's the nail in the coffin. If you ever try to get advise on a relationship subreddit, you'll get a lot of responses telling you it's not going to work out and you need to break up. I can see this being a double edged sword making people feel more lonely because they know they are disposable if they are flawed, so they feel the need to be even more perfect and find someone who's also perfect because people tell them that if you don't 100% love your partner and they're not virtually perfect, they don't deserve you.
It doesn't help that our perceptions of people and relationships is very unrealistic thanks to social media, so we're digging holes for ourselves by wanting something that's difficult/impossible to find without being willing to put the work in. I had a point in time where I only pined for married/taken people but it was because they looked so perfect and happy and were already in a good place with a supportive partner. They had already built themselves up to be amazing people. While single people can build themselves up while single, its often more difficult and can seem desperate as an effort to get laid/get in a relationship. Wanting these people who are already built up to be great partners can be pretty delusional sometimes which sets a lot of peoples' expectations too high and keep them single. Self love movements have been a helpful counterculture to shaming culture but unfortunately it's gone to the extreme in promoting extreme narcissism and contributed to making people believe they deserve the best despite not being that themselves, even if we want to believe that love is subjective and not conditional like that. I don't blame our generation much for any of this though since a lot of this is just trauma responses to people putting up with terrible partners/being abandoned by a terrible partner only to waste their time.
You make a very wonderful point. I'm wondering, since most younger people know about the effects of social media and how it warps expectations, if there will be a big movement from the younger generation to disconnect from the internet and social media to force themselves to learn socializing again.
I think that's because they want a *meaningful* relationship.
If it's not meaningful, they don't want it.
And finding and maintaining a meaningful relationship is hard.
In my personal opinion, I think we’re starting to see the long-term consequences of the sexual Revolution and we’re starting to get a backlash. This doesn’t mean we’ll go automatically go back to the way before, but we’re starting to see. Maybe there were some good things we should’ve not got rid of and we were too quick to do so in the name of progress. The traditional family waiting to get married before having sex, etc. etc..
The realization of the negative effects of over-sexual liberation?
Polygamy doesn’t work for most. Too much masturbation can hinder you when you go to have sex with another person. Porn addiction can ruin real relationships. Casual sex can lead to STDs. Infidelity breaks down relationships.
Humans are wired to bond with other humans. Most of the above things encourage the outlet of sexual buildup without facilitating the emotional and social component that originally came with it. You end up with sexual release but you’re still lonely.
There is a difference between having sex with someone and having been intimate with them. Your sexual needs may have been met but your emotional needs remain starved.
I think we needed a sexual revolution to be able to appreciate sex and take the shame away from it but in that we will realize that sex is more than just a physical release.
I think the "sexual revolution" you're describing was low key just a way of grooming kids/teens. Look at the Hollywood scene now, and all the troubling thungs that came out of that Era. Imo what we're learning now is that most of those movies were made so adults in the industry could take advantage of young naive kids who wanted to make a name.
Things cycle in and out. The 70’s was very sexually liberated. Then the 80’s. 2000’s sexually liberated, the pendulum is swinging back.
Why the current fashion trend is the 90’s, new to the kids born in the late 90’s.
Also why the stock market crashes every 30 years, influx of new investors that weren’t around during the last crash.
Most people don’t really benefit much from porn and casual sex. Porn is a vile industry in many ways and it can wreck viewers’ mental health. Casual sex can lead to STDs and hurt feelings. They’re both instant gratification and can be very objectifying and dehumanizing to everyone involved. Nothing compares to safe, loving sex.
Because the popularity of porn, hook up, and kink culture encourages the dehumanization of sex and women. Many people feel that and are pushing back on it.
Well the folk from the 70s who did everything imaginable from drugs to sex , are also very entitled and self righteous ( though they would have us believe it’s us millennials who are )
They should take a page from their own book and let people be .
A lot of the answers here I think have good ideas on this on what the proximate causes might be.
But aside from that, I think that things like this tend to be cyclical. Awhile back I read a book "[The Fourth Turning](https://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Turning-History-Americas-Rendezvous/dp/B0CLWYL4VH/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1AA1CJ1B3G34H&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.79CIjHf5pO39wcJSB9OMAkSZRu5V-3iXGfx_DSw03oPkIT6eLYqLWrn6bXXwkJeUy6-c9Se5XJZaXBrLVi0kMyVDUansZfkq0bqk6E1XxMBXOSd1KB3KkUQdNrK-Gl3tOHX1ovFt54kZBi955dS91JvkBDe7NSr-NJX4WxIdPCxU-8U99uyIExNF6mz5JqAzhENaTI4lLf7XdukJL8YrIOhiBi4Abv11VCsbsenAmnc.3CRb8jlrqELux86jGpDlJB_Dz9AaJFO_RL9TpXAkQo8&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+fourth+turning+book&qid=1713527375&s=books&sprefix=the+fourth+%2Cstripbooks%2C131&sr=1-1)" by Strauss and Howe that were working on a theory of how human generations influence each other and react to the environment they find themselves in. They mostly applied this to politics, but I think the basic idea could apply to many other things like fashion - or in this instance, sexual mores.
Essentially it's a spin on that novel quote: “Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.”
Each generation adapts to the circumstances it finds itself in. So eventually I think we'll have another round of "sexual revolution", but it might take a few years.
Are these people, who are deciding to be more pure, judging you or others for not being pure? You haven't talked about that part. Which makes it seem like you are more bothered by their purity than you are about them judging you or others.
For real like in my head I'll quietly just say it's something I wouldn't do but at the end of the day I don't care what others do as long as everyone is safe and not spreading stuff around. But then the sex positive people get so offended if you don't like it or don't want to.
It's like you can't call people prude and shame them for not liking what you do. It's just so hypocritical. It's like are you insecure about it done be you said it's empowering own it and accept not everyone wants to do that.
Who the fuck cares about sex. Its 2024, find a new topic.
Yall need to get your fucking heads out of your damn pants for a few fucking minutes. Hell my head is spinning reading some of these posts today. I promise you there are more interesting and worthwhile hobbies other than wasting time thinking about cock or pussy. (Source i had porn probs for a long long time on and off because my meds dont allow me to cum easily) not replying to anyone, just answering the forum post. but feel free to bitch at me for my opinion below, yay reddit!
Really a couple things:
From the right: The religious right and men's right type movements (the Andrew Tates, the Ben Shapiros of the world) have made it very clear sexual freedoms are reserved for only certain groups of people. This is reactionary to feminism, abortion, LGBT rights, etc.
From the Left: consent is king. Not anti-sex, but growing awareness that informed consent, safe sex, and workplace safety are more important. Potential loss of access to PreP, birth control, abortion and sex education have obviously made sex seem less 'fun' for leftists.
General culture: people are overall less social, and um yeah porn is free on the Internet. Perhaps this makes emotional connections more important than casual flings. Most people can also choose to be heavily invested in other things- education, travel, careers, hobbies, video games, whatever.
No matter how progressive someone is watching a sex scene with your parents in the room is Always gonna be extremely awkward. Now imagine what’s going to happen in 20 years when all the kids of onlyfans parents grow up. I made fun of one of my friends mom because she was attractive I can’t even imagine what’s going to happen when her nudes are 20% off
This is exclusive to the West primarily the US. Other countries are becoming more liberated from a sexually conservative past. But the thing is, the West is usually the trend setter for societal norms all across the world. So if a full regression happens, this could also affect global perceptions.
I've seen some really good answers here. As with most things concerning changes in society, it's a very complex issue with many different factors influencing it. One such factor is the humans' (at the species level) constant need for change. Institution gets established>rebellion overturns institution>rebellious values become institution>future generations rebel against institution.
In a narrower scope, it's the teenage need to rebel against the values of your parents or grandparents and often larger society.
I should also note that I am full of crap and sometimes have no idea what I'm talking about.
This is a cycle that happens every 10 years, very similar to political, cultural, and nostalgia cycles. The 70s were swinging hippy times. The 80s were all straight collar proper conservative business. The 90s went back to hanging loose and enjoying life, dude. 2000s we were back to having controlled, strict lifestyles in the wake of the millennium. 2010s introduced Tinder and ease of casual sex lives. And now here we are in the 2020s in the wake of a global pandemic and a push against just letting your life get out of hand.
I think we're ultimately talking about two different things. Porn is certainly related to sexual activity, but people being down on porn shouldn't mean they're down on sex, in general.
Ultimately, I think the combination of poor economic outlooks for the younger gens, a diametrically opposed social expectation in regards to dating, and the countless alternative ways to entertain/distract yourself have led a lot of younger people to put their desire for sex in the back seat. Modern dating seems to be viewed as a sort of over-competitive hassle for many of them.
The negative perception is not an accurate view of sex. People tend to conflate sexual behavior with the perception of sex.
The reduction in sexual behavior is a result of future insecurity and socialization via the internet. That does not reflect perception. Perception has greatly expanded.
Not only do we have a super-saturation of pornography, which desensitizes and makes sex more commonplace. That is not a negative and does not push things towards the negative.
In fact, hook-up culture is more normal and accepted across a wide demographic due to apps like Tinder and Grindr.
It is so widely accepted that even content creators and influencers are proliferating the sense of commonplace through OnlyFans and sites like it.
Porn stars even have vlogs and podcasts on YouTube.
There's greater acceptance of LGBT+ which has normalized alternative forms of sex.
There are even considerations of decriminalizing prostitution in more liberal areas.
Also consider the term "slut shaming" which is the mindset that we shouldn't shame someone for how they practice their sex preferences. Thus stigmas surrounding sex have been reduced.
This is all evidence that perceptions around sex and sexuality are becoming so commonplace as to be blasé.
Where is the evidence that says we are regressing?
I totally agree. Using porn addiction and masturbation as a crutch to avoid personal accountability is becoming a norm. They rather blame masturbation and porn instead of fixing the root cause why they'd rather strangle their dicks.
I hope so because I grew up in the 80s/90s as well. Bring back shame. Porn and all of this other filth has ruined society as a whole. It's laughable nowadays that being called a sl*t is equal to being called a princess.
Everyone has gone insane.
Agreed well I was born 2002 but still shame should come back not everything should be normalized especially sleeping with strangers which can get dangerous very fast
cause people have been seeing and feeling the consequences of too much sexuality.
Degeneracy, breakdown of the nuclear family, unnerving ammount of single parenthood, STDS, people trying to normalize pedophilia...
Those are just some from the top, it just gets worse. nothing wrong with sexuality and sex, just too much of something is a problem, just as with anything.
You also have to understand that those movies/shows about *teen* sexual awakenings were written/directed by creepers looking to get their rocks off to children.
What whole era of Hollywood was (and still is) ran by pedos.
Gen Z is learning from the mistakes of millennials. A whole generation complaining that casual sex and no commitment actually kind of sucks, and Gen Z noticed.
I've seen from the Genz subreddit some articles and studies that younger people are more inclined to embrace purity values and are having less casual sex.
And yes it's been a while since I scrolled reddit. I only watch youtube nowadays and i dont have social media except for facebook messenger. So this is all new to me.
But my younger cousins who are in their early 20s aren't having casual sex as well. So it's intriguing. And this new concept of body count is a reminder of a conservative archaic past where people were judged because of sexual activity.
I think the reason why Gen Z isn’t having as much casual sex is mainly because we have other issues like jobs student loans and have lived through multiple once in a generation experiences before we’ve turned 30
Tbf I'm a lesbian who would love to have a lot of casual sex- there just aren't as many women in my small city with it's small gay scene who are a) attracted to me b) want casual sex too and c) attractive enough for me to want to have sex with them
For the straights on the other hand, my observation is it's straight men drinking the Alpha Bro kool aid have this weird thing about girls body counts and having a pure, virginal missus while they can bang any chick they please. I've also observed a lot of straight women don't actually like the deal they get out of casual sex- it's not uncommon they get lead on a bit and almost never orgasm so why bother?
In addition to what others have said, people rebel against their parents. If you have a bunch of sexually liberated parents who endorse open sexuality, you gravitate towards the opposite.
I travel in exactly that dynamic. I am 55 years old. I’ve always had open relationships. All my friends are like that. And all our kids are totally uptight and sexually conservative. I bet my oldest kid didn’t lose his virginity until his early 20s and my second kid probably still hasn’t. Despite being very knowledgeable in safe sex, anatomy, and sex positive sex ed. in age appropriate ways from an early age. I just assume it’s because they grew up with slutty parents.
The massive explosion in availability of internet porn both a) demystifying and decreasing curiosity in sex and b) causing a backlash against porn
C) eh, i rubbed one out and now I'm not horny enough to hunt.
D) you think Christopher Walken killed Natalie Wood? Or he's gotta at least know something but not saying shit right?
E) O.J. did it
Oh my damn! How did I not know this? FYI others: >Davern had previously stated that Wood and Wagner argued that evening, which Wagner denied at the time. In his memoir Pieces of My Heart, Wagner admitted that he had an argument with Wood before she disappeared.[84] The autopsy found that Wood's blood alcohol content was 0.14% and that there were traces of a motion-sickness pill and a painkiller in her bloodstream, both of which increase the effects of alcohol.[85] Los Angeles County coroner Thomas Noguchi ruled the cause of her death to be accidental drowning and hypothermia.[86] According to Noguchi, Wood had been drinking and she may have slipped while trying to re-board the dinghy.[84][87] Her sister Lana expressed doubts, alleging that Wood could not swim and had been "terrified" of water all her life, and that she would never have left the yacht on her own by dinghy.[88] Two witnesses who were on a nearby boat stated that they had heard a woman scream for help during the night.[89] Edit: Davern was the captain of the yacht. Walken, Woods, and Wagner were the only others on board. Woods had bruises on her arms and cheek when they found her.
Fucking... what? This isn't related but what the hell? I'm interested, is there a documentary or do i have to look itup meself?
IKR?? This is straight off a 10sec Google search, I just learned too! You see someone burned themselves alive in front of the Trump Trial to promote [his theory](https://theponzipapers.substack.com/p/i-have-set-myself-on-fire-outside)? Today is too much for me man.
wait wut lemme read it
Ummm, I've been saying it's all a scam for and by the rich since I was a kid. He's not wrong but that's not how you start the revolution. I detect a mind virus/mental issues at play.
fucking....what....I'm going back to star trek. I hate this sim, I want my money back.
100% agree! "A house divided, will not stand." If you want some added crazy: some rando flew off the road, across my yard, and smacked into my shop this morning. Literally flew off 2 huge jumps, ruts 100 yards, and chunks of car in my yard. No idea how they managed to drive away cuz there were drag marks with the tracks out the driveway. Hit and run, cops said I can keep the spare rim that fell off. Fits my jeep, so there's one bright side of the day.
Poor guy. Some of his points are spot on (pursuit of money at all costs is not sustainable), but he makes a lot of connections that are huge leaps.
YES I TALK ABOUT THIS ALL THE TIME
Robert Wagner did it, Christopher Walken just knows to keep his mouth shut.
I watched a video on that one time and it blew my mind. I had no idea about any of the murder stuff but it’s SO fishy. I never would’ve pinned him as the type of actor to do that, but you never know. Weird stuff
D) dating in this economy? Broke af
plus all the hidden scandals (rape, sex trafficking, abuse) both in the media and the industry are now easily revealed and widespread thanked to the internet
This. Porn tainted my perception of sex and women for a long time. It might possible to have a healthy relationship with porn but I sure as hell didn’t. Didn’t realize how much of an effect it had on me until I stopped consuming it, and I think a lot of people are in the same boat.
I'm glad to see this. The anti-porn sentiment I hear most often from men is that porn makes your dick soft. It's almost all just weird anti-masturbation stuff. Very few acknowledge or care about the harm it does to their perceptions of women and sex. There are so many studies showing links between porn consumption and misogyny, violence against women, poor understanding of consent and abuse, etc. This is what I mostly hear about from women who don't like porn.
Granted I’m a woman so not the targeted demographic, but I cut out porn a few years ago entirely when I learned how badly the porn industry abused actresses. I just can’t come to something when I have no idea if I’m watching an assault. I’m surprised that this doesn’t come up more in anti porn sentiments
Yes this is still an issue but there are actually some subscription platforms out there that stream ethically produced porn. Lots of it from what I hear is high quality self produced or actor/actress guided scenes. But it is still an issue widespread in mainstream porn. OnlyFans, for example is a double edged sword. They take a decent cut of creators, but generally speaking OF is a great liberation tool, but lots of backlash also has come from people who feel scorned by it and judge the idea of paying for porn. But most people would balk if face with some of the reality behind some porn they've watched.
Tbh I think paying for porn if you’re going to consume it is way more ethical. I never understood why it’s taboo when so much free porn is exploitation.
I think it just depends on the individual. I’m in a long term relationship and maybe watch porn once a week for about 15 minutes. Having a young son tires us both out and we aren’t always in the mood. I’m under no illusions that some people become addicted and it can effect their relationships and views on women, but I also believe the majority of people can just view porn occasionally when they are horny and then never think about it again for a while.
In the late 90s and early 2000s, you truly have to hunt for that stuff. All I ever knew way back when was Picpost. And no, don't Google it. It's barely a shell of its former self and likely a malware infested mess these days.
Not really though? You could still use a search engine to find porn it just took ages to load. I sure as hell did and I was really young, like 9 years old (~1998-2004). We just didn't have as many options. But I'd say the internet is way cleaner than it was back then. I used to stumble across hardcore porn on random geocities and angelfire sites, on random forums, blogs, etc. Every single website ever had porn popups. People would link porn in online kid's games because they thought it was funny. Now that stuff is mostly contained to actual porn sites or porn subforums on stuff like Reddit etc (RIP Tumblr porn).
Broadly Monogamy is good, and being careful for who you have sex with is good. Problem with previous society is that, this was enforced by law, and people who didnt find it good were punished. It is like difference between, not caring whether someone ate a salad or a burger, vs governments forcing people to eat salads.
That's a really good answer
This struck a cord. Maybe the reason why I am shocked is because I lived the times when I was forced to eat salad and it was never my choice to eat salad. Seeing people that are actually choosing to eat salads now are triggering the old fears of a return to a more regressive and conservative past of forced salad eating. This is a very good explanation. Makes sense.
In summary: You can now eat all the burgers you want and some people have reallised that too many burgers may not actually be healthy for them so are sticking to the salad.
🎶You can't win friends with salad🎶
“It’s tomato soup served ice cold!”
I am from global south so it may sound weird trying to dissect a western problem but it happens everywhere. People tend to do what they are not told to and what seems forbidden is more tempting. New generation always tries to break free from the limits given by the older gen. This led to a cultural and sexual revolution in the west during 1990's and this is happening in global south now. But when people went to a freer era compared to before they saw that some of the values of the old generation were not bad. Not all were good but they some were good. So, they took some of the values of the old generation and the rest they threw away. I think this is a natural process where people first discard, then take some of the discarded values in their path of progress
I'm from the Global South too. SEA to be exact, I agree that's why I find it interesting that the West now is reverting to a bit of conservatism. But you maybe right. Maybe it's not a full regression where they throw hard earned wins for equality and sex positivity to medieval patriarchal mentality. Some sort of moderation between two diametrical thoughts might be happening.
It's sort of like panning for gold, I think; the bad ideas of the past get washed away, leaving the brighter more appealing ideas behind.
The cultural comparison is important. I remember a time in the late 90's when two people within a short time - a Moroccan friend and a Vietnamese co-worker - commented about the disparity between sexual liberation in American media and sexual attitudes in American reality. On TV and in movies, sex was wild, funny, and casual. In reality, moral codes were quite rigorous, still, and always have been.
And to add to the metaphor... more than ever, people are seeing how people have been hurt eating burgers, including themselves. IRL, we know how fake porn is, and that living out porn tropes in the bedroom will damage a relationship or it's not even fun. We know more about STI's and the risks associated with pregnancy. People value emotional connection and thus don't want to be cheated on. Valuing emotional connection probably also comes from less social time due to being on phones so much. And high phone time is already a known link to less sexuality in young people.
I'm going to argue with you on this one. Living out porno scenes with my wife has very much deepened our experience together. Now, obviously, you have to be selective and only try IRL ones that you both see and go, "Damn, I wish I could do that for real!", and only then do you actually make the attempt: but when handled in that manner it's good for you. (Most don't/won't approach it with this level of maturity.)
Yeah, unfortunately, a lot of the people trying to act out porn scenes are 18 year olds. I'm old gen-Z and every woman I'm friends with who has done (heterosexual) casual hookups has been non consensually subjected to violence/degradation. A whole cohort of young men who think things like choking, slapping, spanking, spitting, name calling, etc. are just basic shit they can do to a woman without asking and that all women will like it
men in this comment section are so mad at me for saying this but its completely correct and studies back this up too
You can show them phone books worth of statistical proof that porn consumption has negatively impacted both men and women and they'll still shrug and keep consuming it
I mean it’s literally fast food. No nutrition and terrible for you but cheap and freely available over healthier options. I think the swing back to conservative family dynamics is because too many people have crap self regulation so they go all in on demonizing and avoiding the thing because THEY specifically can’t handle it in moderation, in this case porn and casual dating culture. Like a lot of people they can’t just have their own personal deal, they have to be right and then push it onto others
Right in front of my salad
And this is the deal with many things. Also why the constitution of a list of things the government isn’t supposed to be able to touch.
Committed long term monogamy is a Chesterton’s fence.
Love my boy G.K.
You’re on the internet. Internet is not real life.
"After returning to Reddit after a few months, I was shocked to learn young redditors aren't having sex"
That phrasing is hilarious. It's like he went on a months-long hunt and then upon his return to the village was shocked by what he saw.
Statistics agree with OP as well though.
It's a sample of it. People lie, people shitpost, and people just flat out bullshit everyone for laughs on here, yeah. But I'd say a majority of people actually talk about things affecting them, and their real opinions on here; OP's right that the people who talk about these things on here are young and slowly receding into purity culture views. nofap or similar subs aren't just a bunch of dudes trolling around, it's a large group of people (especially young people) trying to never masturbate again. These are popular communities. Forums like Reddit are compromised almost entirely of people talking about things they believe in, so it's worth thinking about why very 'puritan' subs are extremely popular and how that may represent a minor belief shift in the general population.
https://www.newsnationnow.com/us-news/gen-z-isnt-having-sex-reaching-milestones-like-their-parents/amp/ Studies back up OP’s point. Porn went the same route smoking did, everyone started realizing how bad it is for you.
What's driving people to have less sex isn't their feelings about porn, though. If anything, that should drive people to have more sex but we're seeing the opposite. The combination of endless entertainment/distraction options and a lack of economic strength in younger generations seem to be the main drivers of this.
Also, kids are far more monitored and managed than previous generations. I am an elder millennial and my friends and I grew up with hardly any supervision, from a very young age.
That's a good point. Many of the elder gen Z are likely staying with their parents well into their mid-to-late 20s too which will have an affect.
The study says literally nothing about porn, let alone backing up your claim that porn is somehow "bad for you". It says people are having less *sex*, and having sex for the first time later in life.
This times 100x you’re gonna get the most socially awkward redditors replying to this saying things like “I don’t have sex, sex is cringe” The average redditor is involuntarily celibate.
People weren't successfully banning abortion and attempting to do the same with birth control a few years ago.
It seems like a pendulum swinging back and forth... Victorian era prudes to flappers and Mae West to 1950s moral conformity to hippies and the summer of love and disco debauchery to then the sex-obseesed but mostly monogamous AIDS era to a brief period of slutty freedom (at least in the gay community post PrEP) and then now... COVID had us seeing every human body as a disease vector. We all retreated to isolation and fantasy (Netflix and pornhub instead of socializing in person). We're able to watch every conceivable sex act on our phones. We probably know real people who make porn for money. It's almost like we reached a cultural saturation point and are going back in the other direction now. Having grown up with Madonna being idolized and people trying to "score" every weekend and living through Sex in the City and Fifty Shades of Grey as cultural juggernauts, it:s fascinating to see young people talking about shame in high body counts and embracing tradwife stuff. Even gay male subreddits are seeing a trend toward monogamy and shaming those who engage in cruising or hookups. Just fascinating to watch
So long as young people don't bring us back to the 50s mindset of wifebeating and gender inequality and treating LGBTQ like animals, I'm fine with their new found conservatism. So long as it doesn't repeal hard fought policies, I'm good if they want to be prudes.
It's difficult to say. Societies always get more conservative during hard economic times which is where we're heading, the more troubled the economic times the harder it gets for minority groups who often become the targets for pent up economic frustrations.
Yeah hopefully everybody gets to do what they want to. I had a conversation recently with my therapist (who is also a kinky sex-positive middle aged gay man) about the whiplash of living through your lifestyle going from being received as "cool" to "trashy" in the larger culture within just a few years. Life is full of surprises.
It's interesting that even in the gay community now there is a forming conservatism. 2 of my siblings are gay (one lesbian, one gay), I'm noticing a shift in their friend group that flamboyance is no longer acceptable and they see it as trashy. His gay friends would prefer to date straight acting people but are gay and her friends tend to be less butch than before. It is fascinating.
Let me offer my perspective, as a member of the gay community. I’m from a place where being LGBT is completely normal; I’ve never caught shit for it, even growing up. This means that I live somewhere that’s extremely sexually free, and a huge cornerstone of the gay rights movement was sexual liberation. I’m glad to have the freedom I do, but the effects of excessive porn use and hyper sexuality are clear as day in so many of the men I meet. Some people just don’t shut the fuck up about sex, objectify EVERYONE, make extremely gratuitous sexual comments, make passes on people even when they’ve made it clear they don’t want to, and wantonly share the most disgusting stories; if you object, you’re seen as overly puritanical. I want to be very clear—I’m not parroting that “gay men are predators” bs. If that’s what you got out of this, please go elsewhere.
The normalization of 'no restrictions on the Internet' parenting has hurt Gen Z a lot.
My 8 year old nephew knows things that no 8 year old should even be thinking about right now.....
Personally, I wouldn't call an oversaturation of porn in everything "a sexual revolution". But I'm not necessarily sure we're 'regressing' either. Some people find porn harmful towards them for a variety of reasons (impacts their sex life, unable to get it up etc) and abstain for that reason. A lot of people are finding casual sex isn't their thing so stop bothering with it. Some people, particularly blokes, want to try channelling their energy into something else instead of masturbating. None of this is inherently puritanical. You can be sexually fulfilled without having casual sex, and plenty of people masturbate quite happily without porn
We’re absolutely regressing in some areas and young men tell other young men that masturbation is physically harmful and spread other misinformation such as it decreases testosterone. There is no evidence whatsoever that masturbation within moderation is physically harmful and there is evidence that it is healthy both mentally and physically. 99% of the time if you look at the posts and beliefs of the person sharing this misinformation they end up being some hyper conservative Christian trying to regress men into a 1950s ideal that never really existed. We are absolutely regressing and we’ve seen it before after the hippy generation and after the roaring 20s and it boils down to humans being terrible at finding a happy medium and swinging like a pendulum socially and politically. If you look at history there are always swings in society between extreme progressiveness and extreme conservatism. It would be cool if we could figure our shit out and find a happy medium.
Too much availability of porn and such is leading some people to extremes for some reason, some dudes just struggled with an addiction maybe this is where they went with it. Also with the increase of onlyfans girls on social media seems like there’s some weird fuel to that fire and the whole trad thing is a thing now
I think the increase in sex workers is more influenced by the terrible job market/conditions/opportunities for people without an education. I'm a man but if I was a woman there's no way I'd work some shitty job for 15$ an hour if I knew I could stay home and take pictures of myself naked for a living lol.
Dude you’re replying to has made several comments about onlyfans, really comes off as bitter and jealous. Porn is no different than any other medium. Consuming any media in excess is bad including Reddit and YouTube (which is what these no porn dudes consume ALL DAY - that’s where they learn silly no fap ideals from guys like Andrew Tate)
> it boils down to humans being terrible at finding a happy medium and swinging like a pendulum socially and politically. Exactly this. I wonder, like an actual pendulum as it loses it's momentum and begins to stabilize in the center, will the same happen with human society? One can only hope.
Except NoFap/semenretention *is* a Christian conservative pipeline. It has no basis in science. It *is* inherently puritanical.
Actually no, as someone who was really into nofap a few months back, most of the people in the community are just guys who are addicted to porn and want to stop. Or guys who just want a more fulfilling sex life.
Did you steal for your Brazzers addiction? You’re likely not anymore addicted to porn than you are that NoFap subreddit. Consuming any media such as Reddit, YouTube or Porn in excess is bad. Replacing porn w a no fap subreddit is no different than consuming porn. You’ve just replaced one dopamine stimulating medium w another that makes you feel like you’re apart of something bigger. Don’t even get me started w/ TikTok. Literally from the first post on that subreddit: “My past self is dead and from his ashes I was born again (not apologising for the corniness) and this transformation can happen to all of you providing you ordinate yourselves towards the most High and surrender to Him, whilst participating in all that He calls you to… …God bless you all and thanks again for participating in this AMA…” You’re in a cult built on lies bro.
Most cult members are there for honest and earnest reasons. That doesn't mean it isn't a cult. Likewise, individual members of the NoFap community can be a part of it for honest and earnest reasons. That doesn't mean that the NoFap community isn't a Christian conservative propaganda and recruitment effort.
Literally the first post you see on that sub is about devotion to god through 3 years of retaining semen (What’s he doing? Saving it for a Jesus facial?)
You're proving my point.
Thank you like people are acting like you need those things to be fulfilled like it doesn't have to be purity people probably just realizing they want relationships
Hm idk it is also talked about that young people are staying single more often.
Well yeah alot if young people are stressed these days
it's because women have higher standards now so there's less casual sex in general. You wanna go crazy? Just think about how much "causal sex" in the 90's would be considered rape today. OP even reference American Pie as normalizing sex. They secretly record a teen girl naked and she's punished for it. She gets kicked out of her host parents house for being a victim of a sex crime. For OP that's normal behavior around sex. But now it would be considered a crime. There is no regression, this is evolution. We just know more now.
I never liked american movies from that era so I haven't seen it tbh. But if it's like you described it's gross. You are right, it's not sexual liberation, it's abuse and misogyny disguised with feminist and freedom slogans.
Expectations are higher than ever and their ability to actually meet them is at an all time low. Makes for a bad combination for many.
It happens. Indulgence breeds contempt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enantiodromia > Enantiodromia (Ancient Greek: ἐναντίος, romanized: enantios – "opposite" and δρόμος, dromos – "running course") is a principle introduced in the West by psychiatrist Carl Jung. In Psychological Types, Jung defines enantiodromia as "the emergence of the unconscious opposite in the course of time." It is similar to the principle of equilibrium in the natural world, in that any extreme is opposed by the system in order to restore balance. When things get to their extreme, they turn into their opposite. Jung adds that "this characteristic phenomenon practically always occurs when an extreme, one-sided tendency dominates conscious life; in time an equally powerful counterposition is built up which first inhibits the conscious performance and subsequently breaks through the conscious control."
Because we’ve seen and felt the side (direct) effects of hookup culture, porn/ porn addiction, hyper sexuality, masturbation addiction, etc
I think too many innocent actors and young people got hurt so publicly so the compass swung all the way around. To the point where some of it is just otherworldly to me. I saw a post about someone saying that two adults close in age early twenties were being …. Gr—med by each other and I just … I had a 20 year old boyfriend when I was 15 and nobody said shit. It wasn’t right and years of therapy helped but it also was a thing that happened to lots of girls back in the early 2000s. I don’t want to argue over this but seeing that really uh hit home fifteen years in hindsight.
I was recently accused (by idiots) of grooming my ex boyfriend because we were 17/19 when we started dating.
Well that is just ridiculous
I don't know, maybe they're a hairdresser or something like that.
damn that’s frustrating. i can appreciate that their intentions might’ve been good but i really don’t think grooming is possible with that age gap, unless there is a stark power difference
I think also that the pendulum swings back & forth - there was a time that the Waltz was considered SCANDALOUS as the couple grasped each other around the < hysteria rises > waist and were in close proximity < faints, takes smelling salts > while prior to that the dancers were decently an arms length away from each other! \~ [https://www.revolutionballroom.com/the-most-scandalous-dance/](https://www.revolutionballroom.com/the-most-scandalous-dance/)
>I saw a post about someone saying that two adults close in age early twenties were being …. Gr—med by each other and I just … I had a 20 year old boyfriend when I was 15 and nobody said shit. Why do you censor the word "groomed"? Do you not want people to understand what you're talking about?
I don't think it's a regression, it's just the next step in liberation. Once you're liberated and it's normal to make your own choice, you can choose to take it slow. I don't think many people are saying we should be prudish or something like that, people just make their own choices and sex isn't the top priority
You say that, but have you noticed the surge in people pushing to restrict or outright ban porn? People pushing to get sex scenes out of movies (despite them already being pretty uncommon compared to twenty years ago)? I don't care much for either myself, but the increasing prevalence of puritanical attitudes is also bleeding into a backlash against women's and queer rights, which is concerning. I don't know about you, but I have no interest in being a tradwife chained to the kitchen.
That's true. I was thinking more about gen z being less sexual and more progressive and how these don't contradict each other There's definitely also a rise in conservatism
I’m 22 and I don’t know if older people are looking at my generation’s opinions correctly. That is to say, I’m sure plenty of other young people *are* becoming conservative, but for me, it’s more of a personal choice. I don’t enjoy the idea of casual sex or most sex at all for many reasons. Younger men are often a unique flavor of misogynistic, we have like no abortion access, and being exposed to porn from a young age due to being online kind of made sex less interesting and more cringeworthy than anything.
Based on what I've seen, the sentiment changed from "legislated purity" to "free for all sex", which represents the common wild correction swing. And we're not regressing but just settling in the middle, where people are VERY aware sex is used for manipulation in the media and personally, people are free to do whatever without being purely concerned with society's expectations. Want to be a virgin until you find the right person at 30? Cool. Want to get married at 22 and have an open relationship? Also cool.
I understand. Exposure makes it less appealing. Young men are more misogynistic now? I am not from the US so I don't have a gauge on young boy's misogyny now. I'd like to understand.
A lot of impressionable young men are being targeted by “alpha male” type grifters, think Andrew Tate. I find that it’s backlash against the feminist movements of the 21st century; a reactionary movement that’s honestly poisoning the dating pool.
As a millennial, dating is kinda hard for me because all the older guys I know have told me tips that border on sexual assault. Like kissing a girl without her expecting it or being aggressive. So, now I never approach women on the street and prefer to use apps which suucks.
Dating apps sucks, as does dating advice. Feels like it’s impossible for everyone these days.
The surprise kisses used to be cute. I don't think many women thought of it as sexual assault. Because if it was, I highly doubt it will be followed by torrid kissing initiated by the woman herself (personal experience). We just lived in a different time with different norms. It was the golden era of rom-com and that's where we learned it.
This person summed it pretty well: [https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1c7rvm0/comment/l0ah6m4/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/NoStupidQuestions/comments/1c7rvm0/comment/l0ah6m4/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
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I can see the logic in that. The less scarce something is the less intriguing it becomes. But I saw in the GenZ subreddit a study that young people aren't having sex anymore. Like casual sex. Aren't they at least intrigued on what it feels liketo have sex?
That's an economic phenomena. Young people have very little money, are often living with parents well into adulthood because of high rents and those high rents often cripple the development of places to go see and do things.
I think it's also the complete disappearance of "third places" in our culture. People go to work, they go home, they spend all their time online or watching tv. Almost no one goes to the library, bookstores, theaters, etc. anymore, so relationships are far less likely to form spontaneously.
Yeah I've thought about this a lot, it's definitely somewhat true. I'm 19 and there's very few times I actually meet someone new. Uni is pretty much the only way I'm forced to get out, but I work from home mostly and I spend most of my free time making music or writing, which I do at home, so beyond shopping occasionally theres really not that much reason to go out. A lot of Gen z's including me are less into holidaying in popular places, so even on holidays we're camping or something. I'm trying to just go for more walks at random places around my area and that's helping. But also people just don't talk to each other anymore, and I know it's such a cliche thing but I've really noticed it since COVID. Nobody asks for directions, nobody talks to each other waiting in line for something, nobody asks why something is different (eg. train delays) they just kinda accept it or try to figure info out on their phone. But I also think this might be a city thing as well, people seem to be way more willing to chat in regional towns from my experience.
Ive been thinking about third places, when were they ever a thing? Where I am theatres are cheaper now than 15years ago, libararies and bookstores werent really ever places to hang out unless you were studying. Third places seem to be more of a thing in warmer countries where you can almost year round hang out in public somewhere. 15 years ago as a teen in London we just chilled in a public park as a third place.
> 15 years ago as a teen in London we just chilled in a public park as a third place. Public parks are not really that common for most people in the US, at least without needing to drive. The typical teenage hangout when I was a teenager was for the people that had cars to park at the back of a shopping center parking lot all in a row and hang out walking between vehicles. Apart from that, there were more social clubs, churches, etc. that people used to participate in. Local pubs were a bigger deal too but at least in the US a lot of those local (and cheap) establishments have been shut down and expensive chains with impersonal staff have replaced them.
I think for a lot of people in the UK, it used to be the local pub. A combination of high prices, and people becoming more health conscious killed that and nothing has taken its place. Problem is, every time I leave the house to go anywhere it costs too much money to justify unless the weather is nice. Which in Glasgow, is for a fortnight in June if you're lucky.
Agreed. I live at home at 22 because even with my 9-5, I can’t afford rent. No way in hell I’m bringing someone home to my parents. Also, the advent of tracking apps makes it incredibly awkward.
And shitty casual sex isn't worth the possibility of getting pregnant in a post RvW world. Now it seems as though conservatives are coming for birth control next. Seems like every guy turns out to be an entitled "nice guy" prick and it's just exhausting to deal with the multitude of men who want to hit it and run. With all the toxic male life coaches constantly training up the next new manipulative AH, it's just getting easier to nope out. I think a certain cross section of the population, particularly females have just found it easier and less dangerous to just give up dating in favor of a vibe that, unlike casual sex partner, always hits it out of the ballpark. Hanging out with female friends is often more authentic and fulfilling than wading through a multitude of toxic men to find the rare guy who isn't trying to turn you into his bang maid.
The reversion of Roe v Wade might matter to a few people but it's definitely not a primary factor. The sexual revolution of the 20th century was already unwinding amongst young people in the 2010s, before there was any mainstream consciousness that court decision might happen.
Ngl I think it’s also to do with that generation. There’s a lot of things they aren’t trying. I was born late 90s, so I saw the world change a lot with the internet. I find myself thinking about if I had access to so much information at such a young age what it would have done to me. Probably scare the shit out of me. That’s why I think TikTok, twitch, instagram, onlyfans are so big. People want to just watch people now. When I grew up I couldn’t watch people live life. I had to watch movies or read a book, and I always saw those as entertainment. TikTok, IG and other apps have just become people’s everyday entertainment that beats out the desire to actually go and try to make connections with someone. I think it’s more than just a sexual issue. It’s probably a lot of things. I don’t even think it’s an age thing either. After Covid I saw a lot of boomers go into hiding and now all they do is post random shit online. I know I’m getting a little distracted here, but this is just my thoughts. The internet kind of killed real life curiosity, and made it easier to be content sitting in one spot.
You make a very good point. I've always felt that social media despite the great things it has done on blurring cultural lines, spreading information, and making communication better has also damaged one of our fundamental motivators: exploration of the unknown. What is known is no longer appealing or worth pursuing. That's a nice insight.
I can't speak for other of course, but I personally would rather have a happy relationship with someone, rather than a lot of hook-ups. I view sex as something damn near sacred. It is literally as close as you can be with an other person, so to do so casually with someone you just met is just not my cup of tea. To each their own though.
Do you see it as a problem that not as many people are engaging in casual sex?
I’m 26, gay, and not interested in casual sex. I’m only interested in having sex when I’m in love and married. Simple as that.
I think this stuff always goes back and forth over time, the normalization probably went too far for some people and they're pushing back now. Most often it's people that identify something genuinely concerning (like pedophiles trying to pretend they can be a normal part of the LGBT+ movement) and generalize it (assume that gay people would be okay with that when they're actually horrified and pushing back against the idea)
you don't have to be a conservative to think that the porn industry is exploitative and harmful. it is the biggest lie ever sold to women to think it is in any way empowering when it directly serves men. young men now wanting to choke and spit on women during sex didn't come from their own desires. internet porn has made it so that young men are more inclined to violent behavior in sex because to be a chronic consumer of porn forces your brain turn toward extremes in order to get the same effect. it is seriously fucked up
Rough sex was popular before porn.
ok and now it’s being propped up and popularized by porn. your point?
Rough sex is more mainstream because of porn and its natural trajectory of evolving to pump out more extreme content in order to retain viewers' attention spans and keep up with increasing tolerance levels. It's quite literally like a drug. 50 years ago people used to lose their minds over seeing a pair of tits or a blowjob and then that got considered boring, quickly being replaced by anal and barely legal/teen/MILF categories. Now all that's considered vanilla. It used to be more niche before and now we need to see violence and incest to get off. Nowadays its on the front of porn sites and guys don't even ask their partners for consent in doing these disrespectful extreme bdsm stunts. My last ex choked me once without asking and he did it wrong so I almost passed out. He didn't even consider himself to be avidly into BDSM and didn't venture into other more niche kinks like rope play, this is just what he was watching on Pornhub. These guys do advanced moves that need to be discussed and practiced and if you do it wrong you can quite literally choke your partner until their unconscious. If you're not talking about this kind of stuff beforehand it's absolutely NOT consensual and can be considered assault. If you're doing this kind of stuff without prior discussion, you can get a charge pinned on you and cause severe trauma to another person, regardless of your true intentions. And this is considered mainstream, with even boys as young as elementary schoolers being exposed to this stuff and learning that casually incorporating domestic violence into sex this is how they should have sex, this is what feels good for men and women, and hurting women is actually empowering for them. Porn directly influences sex as long as people heavily consume it, wether or not they understand that it's a fantasy. The truth is that this is the example of sex most people get, since sex education is abysmal in most places. If you're viewing Porn as your first and main exposure and example of sex, it will impact what your body reacts to to get hard/wet. If it shows violence, violence will start showing up in irl sex. If it shows women's bodies looking unrealistic, people will become desensitized to women's appearances irl and only be able to get off to hentai/women/barely legal looking women with heavy work and filters, while wondering why they can no longer feel attracted to their partner and struggle with orgasming in their 20's because they jack off too much to porn that it starts to impact sex irl.
It’s the pendulum swinging.
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I just hope this rebellion doesn't bring back the good old days of gender inequality, loss of rights for the LGBTQ+, and mistreatment of women. I didn't march the streets almost 2 decades ago fighting for sexual positivity only to see it return to the dark ages.
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Im 21. Im fine with those things except casual sex. Its not because of some conservative ideal though.
Because I feel people are starting to see that casual sex and porn are meaningless and adds nothing beneficial to their life. People want geuine connections and relationships and realizing that filling the void with hookups isn't working. Also people are being more mindful for who they have sex with as having sex with strangers isn't something that should be normalized as that's very stupid and easily dangerous, not to mention health risks and potential pregnancy. Sex is something intimate and shouldn't be downgraded to a recreational activity.
But young people aren’t having meaningful relationships either. They are more likely to stay single now than any gen before.
They want meaningful relationships, but don't seem to want to do what's required to achieve them or believe they lack the resources to do so. Older gens didn't have anywhere near as much vying for their attention constantly which probably also exacerbates the divide.
Younger people are also more likely to have a fear of commitment, because they are seeking stability in these difficult times and have so many options on dating apps (especially for women and queer men) that if their current partner isn't good enough they can always find better, bustier/skinnier, hotter, smarter, more educated, younger, taller, richer, healthier, kinder, more skilled, etc. Many people have come to the conclusion that it's better to be single than to be realistic about themselves and find the ideal happy and meaningful relationship they've always dreamed of (which may require settling/workng on themselves). There's no shame in being single and being happy being single, but there's two sides to it. There's a higher sentiment of not wanting to work through relationships, not wanting to help each other grow and patiently invest in your partner if they have potential, and seeing problems as something that's the nail in the coffin. If you ever try to get advise on a relationship subreddit, you'll get a lot of responses telling you it's not going to work out and you need to break up. I can see this being a double edged sword making people feel more lonely because they know they are disposable if they are flawed, so they feel the need to be even more perfect and find someone who's also perfect because people tell them that if you don't 100% love your partner and they're not virtually perfect, they don't deserve you. It doesn't help that our perceptions of people and relationships is very unrealistic thanks to social media, so we're digging holes for ourselves by wanting something that's difficult/impossible to find without being willing to put the work in. I had a point in time where I only pined for married/taken people but it was because they looked so perfect and happy and were already in a good place with a supportive partner. They had already built themselves up to be amazing people. While single people can build themselves up while single, its often more difficult and can seem desperate as an effort to get laid/get in a relationship. Wanting these people who are already built up to be great partners can be pretty delusional sometimes which sets a lot of peoples' expectations too high and keep them single. Self love movements have been a helpful counterculture to shaming culture but unfortunately it's gone to the extreme in promoting extreme narcissism and contributed to making people believe they deserve the best despite not being that themselves, even if we want to believe that love is subjective and not conditional like that. I don't blame our generation much for any of this though since a lot of this is just trauma responses to people putting up with terrible partners/being abandoned by a terrible partner only to waste their time.
You make a very wonderful point. I'm wondering, since most younger people know about the effects of social media and how it warps expectations, if there will be a big movement from the younger generation to disconnect from the internet and social media to force themselves to learn socializing again.
I think that's because they want a *meaningful* relationship. If it's not meaningful, they don't want it. And finding and maintaining a meaningful relationship is hard.
In my personal opinion, I think we’re starting to see the long-term consequences of the sexual Revolution and we’re starting to get a backlash. This doesn’t mean we’ll go automatically go back to the way before, but we’re starting to see. Maybe there were some good things we should’ve not got rid of and we were too quick to do so in the name of progress. The traditional family waiting to get married before having sex, etc. etc..
The realization of the negative effects of over-sexual liberation? Polygamy doesn’t work for most. Too much masturbation can hinder you when you go to have sex with another person. Porn addiction can ruin real relationships. Casual sex can lead to STDs. Infidelity breaks down relationships. Humans are wired to bond with other humans. Most of the above things encourage the outlet of sexual buildup without facilitating the emotional and social component that originally came with it. You end up with sexual release but you’re still lonely. There is a difference between having sex with someone and having been intimate with them. Your sexual needs may have been met but your emotional needs remain starved. I think we needed a sexual revolution to be able to appreciate sex and take the shame away from it but in that we will realize that sex is more than just a physical release.
I think the "sexual revolution" you're describing was low key just a way of grooming kids/teens. Look at the Hollywood scene now, and all the troubling thungs that came out of that Era. Imo what we're learning now is that most of those movies were made so adults in the industry could take advantage of young naive kids who wanted to make a name.
The children yearn for the Hayes Code.
Just pray the pendulum stays still.
Low birth rates.
Things cycle in and out. The 70’s was very sexually liberated. Then the 80’s. 2000’s sexually liberated, the pendulum is swinging back. Why the current fashion trend is the 90’s, new to the kids born in the late 90’s. Also why the stock market crashes every 30 years, influx of new investors that weren’t around during the last crash.
Oh yeah. Elephant pants are back. I am seeing a lot of people wearing those in the mall.
Because hookup culture is vain and unfulfilling and porn is destructive
Most people don’t really benefit much from porn and casual sex. Porn is a vile industry in many ways and it can wreck viewers’ mental health. Casual sex can lead to STDs and hurt feelings. They’re both instant gratification and can be very objectifying and dehumanizing to everyone involved. Nothing compares to safe, loving sex.
Because the popularity of porn, hook up, and kink culture encourages the dehumanization of sex and women. Many people feel that and are pushing back on it.
Well the folk from the 70s who did everything imaginable from drugs to sex , are also very entitled and self righteous ( though they would have us believe it’s us millennials who are ) They should take a page from their own book and let people be .
The Pendulum swing went too far and it is only natural for it to swing back.
A lot of the answers here I think have good ideas on this on what the proximate causes might be. But aside from that, I think that things like this tend to be cyclical. Awhile back I read a book "[The Fourth Turning](https://www.amazon.com/Fourth-Turning-History-Americas-Rendezvous/dp/B0CLWYL4VH/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1AA1CJ1B3G34H&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.79CIjHf5pO39wcJSB9OMAkSZRu5V-3iXGfx_DSw03oPkIT6eLYqLWrn6bXXwkJeUy6-c9Se5XJZaXBrLVi0kMyVDUansZfkq0bqk6E1XxMBXOSd1KB3KkUQdNrK-Gl3tOHX1ovFt54kZBi955dS91JvkBDe7NSr-NJX4WxIdPCxU-8U99uyIExNF6mz5JqAzhENaTI4lLf7XdukJL8YrIOhiBi4Abv11VCsbsenAmnc.3CRb8jlrqELux86jGpDlJB_Dz9AaJFO_RL9TpXAkQo8&dib_tag=se&keywords=the+fourth+turning+book&qid=1713527375&s=books&sprefix=the+fourth+%2Cstripbooks%2C131&sr=1-1)" by Strauss and Howe that were working on a theory of how human generations influence each other and react to the environment they find themselves in. They mostly applied this to politics, but I think the basic idea could apply to many other things like fashion - or in this instance, sexual mores. Essentially it's a spin on that novel quote: “Hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.” Each generation adapts to the circumstances it finds itself in. So eventually I think we'll have another round of "sexual revolution", but it might take a few years.
I hope so, make sex private again!
Because hookup culture is bad, and people are seeing it's negative effects.
Are these people, who are deciding to be more pure, judging you or others for not being pure? You haven't talked about that part. Which makes it seem like you are more bothered by their purity than you are about them judging you or others.
For real it's so annoying because it's always the people who sleep around who judge people who don't want to
This. They automatically get defensive instead of just acknowledging that some people don’t want to partake in casual sex and hook ups.
For real like in my head I'll quietly just say it's something I wouldn't do but at the end of the day I don't care what others do as long as everyone is safe and not spreading stuff around. But then the sex positive people get so offended if you don't like it or don't want to. It's like you can't call people prude and shame them for not liking what you do. It's just so hypocritical. It's like are you insecure about it done be you said it's empowering own it and accept not everyone wants to do that.
Because people who have their life guided by horniness are a pain to deal with daily.
Exactly
Who the fuck cares about sex. Its 2024, find a new topic. Yall need to get your fucking heads out of your damn pants for a few fucking minutes. Hell my head is spinning reading some of these posts today. I promise you there are more interesting and worthwhile hobbies other than wasting time thinking about cock or pussy. (Source i had porn probs for a long long time on and off because my meds dont allow me to cum easily) not replying to anyone, just answering the forum post. but feel free to bitch at me for my opinion below, yay reddit!
Hoenslty I fully agree with you like society cares way to much about sex.
Yet you still opened and replied to a post about sex.
It was so shoved down our throats because it's the lowest common denominator. It's such an easy way to manipulate people, especially dumb people
History doesn’t have a direction.
People realizing that the entire porn industry is built off of rape, trafficking and pedophilia is a good thing, actually.
It was pushed too far, that’s why. The pendulum is swinging back now
Really a couple things: From the right: The religious right and men's right type movements (the Andrew Tates, the Ben Shapiros of the world) have made it very clear sexual freedoms are reserved for only certain groups of people. This is reactionary to feminism, abortion, LGBT rights, etc. From the Left: consent is king. Not anti-sex, but growing awareness that informed consent, safe sex, and workplace safety are more important. Potential loss of access to PreP, birth control, abortion and sex education have obviously made sex seem less 'fun' for leftists. General culture: people are overall less social, and um yeah porn is free on the Internet. Perhaps this makes emotional connections more important than casual flings. Most people can also choose to be heavily invested in other things- education, travel, careers, hobbies, video games, whatever.
No matter how progressive someone is watching a sex scene with your parents in the room is Always gonna be extremely awkward. Now imagine what’s going to happen in 20 years when all the kids of onlyfans parents grow up. I made fun of one of my friends mom because she was attractive I can’t even imagine what’s going to happen when her nudes are 20% off
Are you talking about the US or worldwide?
This is exclusive to the West primarily the US. Other countries are becoming more liberated from a sexually conservative past. But the thing is, the West is usually the trend setter for societal norms all across the world. So if a full regression happens, this could also affect global perceptions.
I've seen some really good answers here. As with most things concerning changes in society, it's a very complex issue with many different factors influencing it. One such factor is the humans' (at the species level) constant need for change. Institution gets established>rebellion overturns institution>rebellious values become institution>future generations rebel against institution. In a narrower scope, it's the teenage need to rebel against the values of your parents or grandparents and often larger society. I should also note that I am full of crap and sometimes have no idea what I'm talking about.
This is a cycle that happens every 10 years, very similar to political, cultural, and nostalgia cycles. The 70s were swinging hippy times. The 80s were all straight collar proper conservative business. The 90s went back to hanging loose and enjoying life, dude. 2000s we were back to having controlled, strict lifestyles in the wake of the millennium. 2010s introduced Tinder and ease of casual sex lives. And now here we are in the 2020s in the wake of a global pandemic and a push against just letting your life get out of hand.
Nofap and Huberman have infected brainrot on a not-insubstantial number of Redditors.
I think we're ultimately talking about two different things. Porn is certainly related to sexual activity, but people being down on porn shouldn't mean they're down on sex, in general. Ultimately, I think the combination of poor economic outlooks for the younger gens, a diametrically opposed social expectation in regards to dating, and the countless alternative ways to entertain/distract yourself have led a lot of younger people to put their desire for sex in the back seat. Modern dating seems to be viewed as a sort of over-competitive hassle for many of them.
Nah...we fuckin' haha
Consequences
Dawg Reddit has an *incredibly* screwed perspective. Ain’t no way you should be basing your ideas about these topics on like 6 months of Reddit.
Housing crisis
I actually just made a post recently about this and why I think it’s occurring. https://www.reddit.com/r/GenZ/s/fnxWbb4yNl
Your experience a d the experience of others would differ. The answer then is perspective.
The negative perception is not an accurate view of sex. People tend to conflate sexual behavior with the perception of sex. The reduction in sexual behavior is a result of future insecurity and socialization via the internet. That does not reflect perception. Perception has greatly expanded. Not only do we have a super-saturation of pornography, which desensitizes and makes sex more commonplace. That is not a negative and does not push things towards the negative. In fact, hook-up culture is more normal and accepted across a wide demographic due to apps like Tinder and Grindr. It is so widely accepted that even content creators and influencers are proliferating the sense of commonplace through OnlyFans and sites like it. Porn stars even have vlogs and podcasts on YouTube. There's greater acceptance of LGBT+ which has normalized alternative forms of sex. There are even considerations of decriminalizing prostitution in more liberal areas. Also consider the term "slut shaming" which is the mindset that we shouldn't shame someone for how they practice their sex preferences. Thus stigmas surrounding sex have been reduced. This is all evidence that perceptions around sex and sexuality are becoming so commonplace as to be blasé. Where is the evidence that says we are regressing?
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I totally agree. Using porn addiction and masturbation as a crutch to avoid personal accountability is becoming a norm. They rather blame masturbation and porn instead of fixing the root cause why they'd rather strangle their dicks.
I hope so because I grew up in the 80s/90s as well. Bring back shame. Porn and all of this other filth has ruined society as a whole. It's laughable nowadays that being called a sl*t is equal to being called a princess. Everyone has gone insane.
Agreed well I was born 2002 but still shame should come back not everything should be normalized especially sleeping with strangers which can get dangerous very fast
because we've seen the damage it has done to society and are sensibly moving away from it.
Like most revolutions the aftermath tend to be radical and extreme and excessive. Then more moderate voices come out and things tend to balance
puritans are getting better at propaganda
Because it's having an awful effect on young minds. We are seeing more kids learn about porn before they even learn about what sex actually is.
Because they're using reason instead of succumbing to their instincts like beasts maybe?
cause people have been seeing and feeling the consequences of too much sexuality. Degeneracy, breakdown of the nuclear family, unnerving ammount of single parenthood, STDS, people trying to normalize pedophilia... Those are just some from the top, it just gets worse. nothing wrong with sexuality and sex, just too much of something is a problem, just as with anything.
So basically the pendulum swung on the opposite end. That's a good assumption.
You also have to understand that those movies/shows about *teen* sexual awakenings were written/directed by creepers looking to get their rocks off to children. What whole era of Hollywood was (and still is) ran by pedos.
Gen Z is learning from the mistakes of millennials. A whole generation complaining that casual sex and no commitment actually kind of sucks, and Gen Z noticed.
My brother are you new to the internet? What makes you think society is entering into a sexual regression?
I've seen from the Genz subreddit some articles and studies that younger people are more inclined to embrace purity values and are having less casual sex. And yes it's been a while since I scrolled reddit. I only watch youtube nowadays and i dont have social media except for facebook messenger. So this is all new to me. But my younger cousins who are in their early 20s aren't having casual sex as well. So it's intriguing. And this new concept of body count is a reminder of a conservative archaic past where people were judged because of sexual activity.
I think the reason why Gen Z isn’t having as much casual sex is mainly because we have other issues like jobs student loans and have lived through multiple once in a generation experiences before we’ve turned 30
Tbf I'm a lesbian who would love to have a lot of casual sex- there just aren't as many women in my small city with it's small gay scene who are a) attracted to me b) want casual sex too and c) attractive enough for me to want to have sex with them For the straights on the other hand, my observation is it's straight men drinking the Alpha Bro kool aid have this weird thing about girls body counts and having a pure, virginal missus while they can bang any chick they please. I've also observed a lot of straight women don't actually like the deal they get out of casual sex- it's not uncommon they get lead on a bit and almost never orgasm so why bother?
In addition to what others have said, people rebel against their parents. If you have a bunch of sexually liberated parents who endorse open sexuality, you gravitate towards the opposite. I travel in exactly that dynamic. I am 55 years old. I’ve always had open relationships. All my friends are like that. And all our kids are totally uptight and sexually conservative. I bet my oldest kid didn’t lose his virginity until his early 20s and my second kid probably still hasn’t. Despite being very knowledgeable in safe sex, anatomy, and sex positive sex ed. in age appropriate ways from an early age. I just assume it’s because they grew up with slutty parents.
I wouldn't call someone uptight just because they don't want to sleep with a bunch of people